The Misconception Of A Stand Your Ground Hearing
Thursday, September 6, 2012 at 12:47PM Right after Judge Lester was removed from the bench, Mark O’Mara said he would likely schedule a “stand your ground” hearing sometime next year. On August 31, Rene Stutzman of the Orlando Sentinel wrote:
Nelson will now be the judge who must decide whether Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder, is entitled to immunity under Florida’s much-debated “stand your ground” law, which allows anyone with a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury to use deadly force against an attacker.
Defense attorney Mark O’Mara has said he would likely schedule that hearing next year.
“It will take a tremendous amount of judicial courage at this point to throw the case out following an immunity hearing,” said Winter Park criminal-defense attorney David Faulkner. “My guess is that any judge, Judge Nelson or otherwise, is going to let a jury decide this issue for the benefit of the public.”
Of late, there’s been a lot of discussion and, perhaps, some arguments, over the difference between filing a stand your ground motion and a Motion for Declaration of Immunity and Dismissal. In essence, they are nearly interchangeable; sort of like buying a GM or Chevy vehicle. You can’t have a Chevy without GM, but it doesn’t work the other way around. Without the stand your ground law, there would be no immunity and dismissal motion applicable in this case. In other words, the important thing to remember is that the immunity and dismissal motion is based on Florida’s stand your ground law, F.S. Statute 776.032: Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force, which states:
A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer… As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
Initially, the Sanford Police Department followed the tenets of the stand your ground statute by not placing George Zimmerman under arrest, but that act did not mean he was free from future prosecution. Now arrested and charged, Zimmerman has a right to file the immunity and dismissal motion based on the statute. F.S. 776.012 states:
Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
Right now, we will pay particular attention to 776.012(1) and whether or not Zimmerman was right to believe that firing his gun into Trayvon Martin’s chest was necessary to prevent imminent death. After all, he said he was being pummeled to death by the teen. We will ignore 776.013 because it addresses the unlawful and forceful entering of “a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle…” 776.031 doesn’t apply, either, because it covers the use of force in defense of others.
Before going into F.S. 776.012, it’s important to first mention F.S. 776.041 and the “Use of force by aggressor.”
Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Here is where some of the confusion may originate over stand your ground and immunity. By most witness accounts, and certainly something the State can clearly establish, the fight did not end where Zimmerman described. Trayvon’s body was found 30-40 feet south of the “T” joining the east/west sidewalk with the north/south one. Witnesses will testify that there was a scuffle with people running and yelling. Who was chasing whom is not relevant at this point because, once able to escape, Zimmerman chose not to. After all, he was the man with the gun. The bottom line is, he cannot prove that Trayvon cold-cocked him there at the “T” intersection. Furthermore, he cannot prove that’s where the fight ended with a bang, as he showed in his reenactment the next day. His best bet is to not bring it up at a dismissal hearing and that means the State will not be able to address it. That’s why, in my opinion, the Defense made an “adjustment” in its strategy, and it’s what led to the confusion over stand your ground and the impending dismissal motion.
At some point, the Defense realized it stood a better chance if it heeded F.S. 776.041. Where the Defense would most likely falter during a Motion for Declaration of Immunity and Dismissal hearing lays in (1) and the first part of (2) in 776.041. Why? In (1), will the Defense be able to factually establish that their client was not the aggressor, who forced himself upon the victim, therefore committing a felony? The shooting at the “T” has been debunked by evidence. The gunshot took place far enough away to establish that Zimmerman’s story is false. If the Defense goes in that direction, so will the State, and Bernie de la Rionda will have every right to do so. And, boy, will he ever!
There’s a big word in (2)… unless, and here’s where it will come into play. Let’s move south. For sure, there was a fight, and since no one can really prove who was on top and who was on the bottom, it’s important for the Defense to lay claim that Zimmerman was on the bottom, being beaten to death. I don’t believe (2)(b) will apply because there’s no testimony by the defendant that he attempted to withdraw. He will most likely assert that his mouth was covered and couldn’t speak, but if he does, the State will counter with the lack of evidence; there was no blood, saliva, or any of Zimmerman’s DNA on the victim’s hands. The Defense will not be able to prove it, any more than it will be able to prove that their client was the one yelling for help. If they try, the State will mention that the screaming stopped immediately after the gunshot while Zimmerman stated that he continued yelling for help as he spread the victim’s lifeless hands away from his torso.
Let’s try (2)(a) instead. Bingo! Here’s Zimmerman’s greatest hope. By claiming, which he has all along, that his life was in danger and that he had exhausted all means to escape, he had no choice but to shoot. OK, fine, but how did he gain access to his gun? The only way to explain it is to show the judge exactly how he did it, and the only person who could do that is George. Without taking the stand, he can’t do that because the video reenactment is too sketchy. If not that, then what’s left?
The medical records.
Yes, let’s just say that Zimmerman did have a fractured nose, meaning broken to some extent. The ARNP who diagnosed him was qualified to do so, and that’s what she wrote in her report:
1. Scalp Lacerations: No sutures needed given well-approximated skin margins. Continue to clean with soap and water dally. We discussed the red flag symptoms that would warrant Imaging given the type of assault he sustained. Given the type of trauma, we discussed that it Is imperative he be seen with his Psychologist for evaluation.
2. Broken Nose~ We discussed that it is likely broken, but does not appear to have septal deviation. The swelling and black eyes are typical of this injury. I recommended that he be evaluated by ENT but he refused.
Review of Systems:
Constitutional Symptoms: Denies fevers and/or chills.
Eyes: Denies loss and blurring of vision, diplopia.
Ear, Nose, Mouth, Throat: Admits nose pain. Denies hearing loss, tinnitus.
Cardiovascular: Denies palpitations, chest pain/pressure.
Respiratory: Denies shortness of breath.
Gastrointestinal: Denies abdominal pain, nausea and/or vomiting.
Integumentary: Admits- (Scalp lacerations).
Neurological: Admits head trauma. Denies tingling, numbness, weakness, headache, dizziness, speech difficulty, gait disturbance, loss of consciousness.
Psychiatric: Admits stress. Denies suicidal thoughts or attempts.
Nothing in that document paints a portrait of a person remotely close to death the day before. Even the Sanford Fire Department EMT report from the night of the incident showed nothing life threatening. Patient Conscious. Breathing normal. No external hemorrhaging. Mucous membrane normal. Extremities normal. Abrasions to his forehead and bleeding/tenderness to his nose. Small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding. If you combine both reports, it doesn’t help the defense because Zimmerman cannot, in any way, shape or form, establish that he was remotely close to death, and if he tries, he opens a can of worms the State is going to take full advantage of.
§
Back to the matter at hand — the legalities. Enough of the medical. If Zimmerman can factually establish that his use of deadly force occurred under the circumstances outlined in the above statutes, he could walk. Peterson v. State, 983 So. 2d 27, 29 (Fla. 1st DCA 2008) showed that F.S. 776.032 established a true immunity and not just a justification for what he did. According to the Jacksonville law firm, Hussein & Webber’s website:
The Court stated that, when immunity under the law is properly raised by a defendant, the trial court (at a hearing) must decide the matter by confronting and weighing only factual disputes. Petersen held that a defendant may raise the question of statutory immunity pre-trial and, when such claim is raised, the trial court must determine whether the defendant has shown by a preponderance of the evidence that immunity attaches. Unlike a motion to dismiss, the trial court may not deny a motion for immunity simply because factual disputes exist.
The main issue in this case will be whether or not Zimmerman will be able to show enough evidence to establish immunity. Once again, I must reiterate what I touched on in The Prince and the Pea: Subjective or Objective Fear in the Petitioner? Was Zimmerman’s fear subjective or objective? Was he correct in fearing for his life or did he just panic? That’s the difference, and there’s a huge distinction between the two and whether or not immunity applies. Of course, there’s one more thing that could only be brought up at trial; did George Zimmerman shoot Trayvon Martin in cold blood? For that reason alone, and for the lack of evidence showing “by a preponderance of the evidence,” Mr. O’Mara had better be preparing his client for trial. I see it no other way.
Cross posted on the Daily Kos
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Bernie De la Rionda, DNA, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Donald West, Eighteenth Circuit Court, Forensics, George Zimmerman, Judge Debra S. Nelson, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Motion for Declaration of Immunity and Dismissal, SYG, Sanford, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Seminole County Courthouse, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 1 Reference 
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Reader Comments (437)
So when did the pinching of the nose and the covering. Of the mouth take place?
Wouldn't that have muffled or changed the screams for help to noricable degree?
The screams for help that I here seem pretty consistent until the end with the gunshot.
And didn't GZ say he continued to scream after the shot?
Posted by commenter onlyiamunitron on another blog back in July:
Rule 1. If Zimmerman says it, it’s true.
And even better, it’s evidence.
So it’s really, really true.
If Zimmerman says A is true, then it is.
If Zimmerman says B is true, then it is.
If A and B contradict each other, see Rule 1.
If the re-enactment contradicts both A and B, see Rule 1.
If all of them are contradicted by what’s on the phone call, you’re listening to it wrong, and what don’t you understand about see Rule 1?
The nose pinching occurred immediately following the head banging. Apparently Trayvin realized George was too hard headed to do any real damage banging it in the concrete, so he resorted to oxygen deprivation. Then he bagain multitasking and decided to smother and shoot George at the same time.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one expect a bit of George's DNA to show up under Trayvon's indext finger and/ or thumb nails as the result of nose pinching? MO didn't mention anything about Trayvon taking a few extra moments to clean out from under his nails before grabbing the gun just above the trigger.
Snoopy, I dont recall MO mentioning the T-man, but if he did it wasn't in any memorable way. I'll go back and check if he mentioned him during the few times he acknowledged others who publicly supported GZ following George's near death experience.
He says it was he whou advised GZ not to retain or sign a contract with the Attorneys Rob Z had contacted on his sons behalf. He says GZ found O'Mara on his own and contacted him by phone duringnhis trip back to Sanford.
I'm off to a CASA board meeting. I'll BBL to provide a few more tidbits about MO and Sondra.
'nemerinys'
Rule 1. If Zimmerman says it, it’s true.
And even better, it’s evidence.
That is way funny. Thanks so much
Dave et al...While Osterman was coaching Zimmerman to come up with a believable story, he really botched things up. Cant you picture Trayvon pinching Z's nostrils together with one hand and then placing his other hand over Z mouth? Trayvon would have to be mighty strong to hold Z in that position and all the while holding Z down if he intended to smother him. Where were Z's hands, knees and legs while he was being smothered? Why didn't Z bite the hand T had over his mouth? ( I am hoping we will get the test results on Trayvon's hands before long.)
Mark Osterman wanted to paint a picture that Zimmerman was about to meet his maker when he fired that fatal shot. Forensics and the medical report will put the kabosh on all of the variations of Z's statements/stories.
I am going to stick with my theory that Z did not go for his cell phone, he went for his gun and Trayvon was trying to get the gun away from Z and was fighting for his own life. I also think that the Arizona tea inside of the beige plastic bag ( found at scene evidence marker #2) was what connected with Z's nose creating a hairline fracture.
I could not find anything in the doc dump showing the Arizona tea was tested for Z's DNA. It was found in T's pocket and I wouldn't doubt Z placed it there when he turned T over on his stomach. Z wanted the tin of tea to look like T had a weapon.
That's my theory and I am sticking to it...
Sempre~~I can't say I blame Z for not engaging those first two lawyers. Zimmerman called Mark NeJame and it was NeJame who suggested O'Mara. NeJame had too much on his plate at the time.
I noticed you mentioned last nite that Osterman said that Zimmerman was a party boy (animal) until he mentored him so he would follow the straight and narrow... go from drinking and dancing to shooting guns...
I doubt if Mark Osterman shared any of this glorified ego and mentioned Frank Taaffe in his book.
I am anxious to see what else you can share with us later this evening.
Where are you Ms Newbie??? I hope all the grand kiddies didn't play you out today.
Great day Snoopy. I've been doing grand parents day for twenty years now. I have only three grand children that still have grandparents day and that will be over soon.
I'm with you totally on the point of when GZ pulled his gun and it makes more sense that GZ was hit with a swinging bag containing a can of tea.
Something I found today and didn't know. Osterman left his job with the Sheriff's department because he was duped by a con man pretending to be a basketball player. I haven't looked for more information on that but it gave me a chuckle.
Newbie~~I think I put a link to the story of Osterman and the big wig baseball star.... brb
I think this is the one explaining how Osterman got mixed up with the ballplayer...
Click on this Ms Newbie
[edit] Newb...it's on page two of that article....enjoy!
That is quite the article. Thank you ! Now I am wondering where GZ might be if he had not ran into Osterman.
The Dr. Phil show brought some in my family to asking questions. They basically had read a little bit here and there but not really gotten into the details but knew I was very into it. I had to laugh as they thought Ostermans were idiots. What I found interesting was one of my daughters who watched the program til the end was crying with Alicia (I think that is the name). If she is any indication of what most mothers are feeling, Ostermans opened a door on Dr. Phils show that unleashed Pandora's box. Can you think of what tomorrows show is going to do....wow.
Newbie~~here is just a glimpse of what tomorrow will bring... so very heart wrenching....
Friday 9/14 Trayvon Martin's Parents: The Questions They Want Answered
I'm not a Dr. Phil "watcher" but think he's done himself proud in the way he handled Ostermans. I hope he is able to help TM's mom and dad. I know it is not going to be an easy show to watch. I'm telling you, I don't understand the hate some people feel for these parents and how they support GZ. Even if I was a GZ supporter, I would still really feel bad about the loss these parents have suffered especially with the way TM died.
Newbie~~I do not believe for one iota that the Tree nut pro Z's honestly think that Zimmerman is not guilty. Their problem is, they refuse to accept the truth. They figure if they yell loud enough and long enough they will drown out the truth. They remind me of those who torture small animals. Let's just say that the Tree nut house is a gathering place for narcissists. We know that narcissists have no conscience.
Snoopy & Newbie, I'm back from my wat too long meeting, but wanted to share one or two important impressions I got from MO regarding GZ.
Osterman allowed his LE attitude to interfere with GZ's best interest when it came to legal representation. Although he did not come right out and say it, I am 99% certain he told GZ to cooperate with LE without the benefit of legal representation. He says he impressed upon GZ he had nothing to fear in being interviewed by LE as long as he told the truth. Well, I think we all know how that plan worked out.
I also get the impression that Osterman fancied himself quite the "life coach" for George.
Osterman says he guided GZ through several phases of coping with the traumatic event, first "shock", then "Anger and confusion at the person who had caused him to react with such violence" and finally the "difficult mourning period". OM seems to have left out the part of accepting the event as part of God's plan.
GZ allegedly told Osterman the EMT's taped gauze bandages on the back of his head at the scene and inserted gauze tubes in his nose. I am wondering at what point their firstaid efforts were removed since non was there in the SPD surveillance video when he arrived there.
I'm not even trying to edit typos. LOL
I have to tell you, the Ostermans are quite full of themselves and the level of personal perfection the have achieved in life and were instilling upon the young Zimmerman couple. OM got GZ off the sauce. They taught Shellie and George to be frugal with their money.. apparently the Zimmermans took saving their money to a whole new level of stupid when they decided not to share it with Seminole County during the first bond hearing.
Did I forget to mention the couples spent a lot of time bonding at the firing range? Mark and Sondra sure didn't. LOL
They did give Shellie a bit of credit for some of the positive changes George made in his lifestyle following the wedding on the beach. Yes, Sondra used her status as a Notary Public to perform the ceremony. George an Shellie married within the same year during which GZ had his domestic violence issue with his GF. MO was quick to point out that the GF was more to blame than GZ and that no formal charges were ever filed. And that all occurred during George's "incessant haze" phase. A term OZ coined for too much time in the clubs on the weekends, too much alcohol, hang over and repeating the cycle. He convince George to instead seek "cumulative clarity" another zen master Osterman phraseology. I'm thinking we might be hearing about an Osterman self help book in the future. LOL
Sempre~~Why were the gauze bandages taken off the back of Z's head before he went to the police station? The medics are not going to tape bandages on his head and then rip them off. Osterman doesn't even have his facts straight. The gauze tubes were probably just sterile swabs they used to daub up any blood under his nose. Z was being dramatic.
I cannot believe that Osterman did not mentor Z in what to say so the shooting would be considered self-defense under the SYG. This is why Z appeared to be over confident and proceeded without an attorney. It seems Z lies and then Osterman swears to it.
Vicky~~LOLOLOL I am beginning to love reading your commentary more than what is in that book.
George was a boozer. That should have gone good with his ADHD. Did Osterman mention that George connected with his old girlfriend ( the one with the pittbull) while he was married to Shellie?
No wonder the Tree nuts are so upset with Mark Osterman... woot woot...
Oh and I forgot. I completely missed this detail in the videos released. OM writes about George's recreation of the event and describes how GZ went to the ground to demonstrate the position he was in when Trayvon went for his gun. Did anyone see that portion of the video reenactment?
i don't recall seeing George on the ground... I only ever watched the reenactment the one time...
Oh no Snoopy, according to Osterman, George was moving toward sainthood under his tutelage. If George met up with the old GF, it was probable to encourage her to seek cumulative clarity. BTW, cumulative clarity can only occur once one gives up the alcohol that creates the incessant haze. All of that helps to achieving one's own "peaceful zone" where one establishes a habit of remaining calm in all situations. Apparently, George hadn't discovered his peaceful zone prior to meeting up with Trayvon. that or his ADHD caused him to forget what that meant.
Questions....
Did Osterman mention anything about the accusations of Z fondling his cousin?
Did he mention much about the rift between Z and his mother and anything about the g/mother raising Z?
What about Zimmerman's noticeable weight loss?
I may think of more...
Snoopy, I don't think that segment of video was released. that or MO was remembering a reenactment that occurred in his living room as opposed to the one at Twin Trees.
Vicky~~you have me laughing so hard that I am wiping away the tears. I think Osterman made Zimmerman into a zombie. Under all the ostrasizing, Z can't even blink and he is so wide eyed.
Let's see, MO says GZ's mom beat him quite often, that his dad was never around. He also claims the family reconciled several months before the shooting, when GZ's grandmother was hospitalized. He made no mention of why the family was estranged, to include no mention of the cousin.
You know, Vicky, Mark O'Mara has to be livid. Here he is planning a defense strategy for his client and Osterman goes and drills the strategy full of holes. I am not giving up on O'Mara... he must pull out of this case. I am sure Z can represent himself under the guidance of Osterman.
I'm telling you Snoopy, reading both Osterman's accounts of their relationships with the Zimmermans is quite something. Sondra is extremely zealous/dramatic in her defense of GZ, while Mark is still trying to figure out what he couldnhave done differently to save GZ from being charged with murder. It's like he remains in shock that anyone would question GZ's SYG claim.
Both Ostermans hate Angela Corey and claim she only charged GZ so she could get $$$ for her election campaign. Both claim it is all political.
Tomorrow, I will tell you guys what they had to say about Trayvon and his parents. I don't want to get all stressed out before bed so I won't go there tonight.
Snoops, I get the impression that the defense team is keeping GZ as far away from Osterman as possible. I imagine they are fully aware how much damage has already been done because George listened to MO and related yet one other story to him and his wife during their month long in home bonding experience.
This book is the icing on the cake, since now both Ostermans are locked into this account of what GZ told them and can't claim a loss of memory. It will be interesting to see how the prosecution uses the book while questioning them. If they in fact call them as witnesses. I realize a lot will depend on how they get around hearsay, but Osterman's version is very different than the one GZ told the police.
Vicky~~once again, thank you so much. Just speaking for myself, I don't want to know how the Ostermans felt about Trayvon's family. I would not give them the satisfaction of repeating it here.
I don't know what I would do if I were unable to read all the wonderful and hilarious comments here at Dave's place...Not to mention all the informed and opinionated comments...What a great source for keeping in touch with one's self and acquiring umfathomable knowledge of what has occurred and what is about to happen...
All fabulous articles and fans...
[Thank you, Estee. That's very nice of of you.]
Good morning all. I happened onto this article which I found quite interesting. As I have stated before, I disagree with the process on how c/c/ permits are acquired and the laxity in quailifying for a permit.
Then you throw in the Stand Your Ground law and you have a recipe for disaster. The first problem I see that needs to be fixed is the Stand Your Ground law. As I understand it, you have police officers basically determining at the crime scene whether or not it is an actual crime. Not good to say the least as imo the collecting of evidence can be lax as in the GZ case. Anyway, I'll get off my soap box.
Local activists and families urge state task force to repeal Stand Your Ground
Estee, I was so intent on being able to copy and paste the article I I forgot to add I certainly agree with you on this being such a good place !
Newbie~~I had problems getting in here and couldn't even get on Facebook. I got messages about a server being down. Strange...
You know this has been an odd time with the main way into Daves being effected by someone hacking into something else. Guess you can tell how little I know about how the internet works....lol. I just had quite the upset. My cable went out and I get my internet thru that company. My first thought....oh no, Dr. Phil and the Martins are on today. Of course I have it all back now or this wouldn't be showing but it all says something to me......I need to get a different provider for my internet.....lol.
Newbie
Is your provider Bright House?
I don't watch Dr Phil but I watched today. I did fine until he told the story about the children in heaven taking a walk with God and lighting a candle. One boy wouldn't go on the walk and finally they asked him why and he said"everytime I light a candle my mother's tears put it out". Dr Phil was telling Trayvon's mom to remember the good times with Trayvon and to celebrae his life,he wouldn't want you to cry all the time. That did it for me I'm crying just typing this. What an amazing couple this is and what great parents they were.
How can anyone believe and stand up for that poor excuse for a human who killed that child,three weeks to the day after he turned 16.
The parents want a trial and IMHO that's what should happen.
Here is a zinger that really showed the level of disrespect Osterman and his prodigy have for the African American community. Osterman claims they decided not to ask George's close black friends to speak out in his favor regarding the alleged racial profiling, because they feared it would put them at risk for retaliation by that community. Now if that is not an ignorant and bigoted attitude, I don't know what is.
I have no idea whether or not GZ has black friends (apparently the Osterman's and Shellie don't as it seemed that the only African Americans they came into contact with were through George). If he does, I'm sure the defense will locate and call them as character witnesses, just for show. However, IMO if George actually has black friends, who really admired and respected him, I can guarantee they would have come forward by now to support their friend, without fear of retaliation from other members of the African American community, since it would have been very easy to qualify their statement that they had never experienced feeling of racism from George, but still believed he broke the law when he shot and killed Trayvon.
To be honest, George may very well have had black friends prior to meeting the Ostermans, but when his black friends met MO, they saw him for what he (MO) was and walked away from their relationship with George, under the belief that George might share the same views as MO.
TommysMom, you summarized what happened today beautifully. Thank you so much. My cable tv and internet was straightened out before Dr. Phil's show. I don't have Bright House, do you and were you having trouble today also?
Vicky, you got it ! I'll say now I appreciate you and others who can put into words what many of us are feeling.
Newbie
I do have BH and didn't have any trouble. I asked you because I shop and pay bills online,and wanted to make sure I wasn't in line to get hacked.
I still tear up when I think of Sabrina's tears putting out Trayvon's candle. I wonder if all of us who cried for Caylee put out her candle. Her mother's sure didn't. I truly believe she is in a better place.
BTW Trayvon was killed one day after my birthday, a reminder in years to come.