LLMPapa's Video Depiction Could Cook Up A Zimmerman Conviction
Saturday, November 10, 2012 at 8:28AM LLMPapa has made quite a name for himself, particularly in video production, since the Trayvon Martin tragedy began making headlines. He’s got such a sharp eye and uniquely analytical mind that complement each other so well, nothing seems to escape him. His work is a gourmet blend of just the right ingredients.
While I fancy myself more of a writer than a videographer, I did manage to get my hands on footage from inside The Retreat at Twin Lakes the other day. I think most of you have probably seen it by now. If not, you can view it on YouTube, where I’ve uploaded some 40 videos. LLMPapa, on the other hand, has produced and uploaded nearly 300. In his latest video, he, once again, pokes holes in one of Zimmerman’s stories now reaching the size of a city block made of Swiss cheese. That would be row after row of thinly sliced fromage piled as high as the Orlando skyline.
The video I put together begins where Zimmerman allegedly parked his vehicle the night of February 26, got out and walked in search of a street name. Or was it a house number? Or was he pursuing Trayvon? I use the word “allegedly” lightly because you can’t trust one word that comes out of his mouth. Did he actually park his SUV where he said he did? Was he really looking for an address when he acknowledged following Trayvon after the dispatcher asked and scolded him for doing so? Something he later denied? That the dispatcher asked for an address that was, in fact, never asked for? You get the picture.
Anyway, LLMPapa, affectionately known as Papa, is like a five-star chef. He has a blank check when it comes to my grocery store of video vittles. He is free to mince, dice, chop and slice any and all elements in order to cook up a crowd pleasing platter of truth when it comes to the rotting lies of George Zimmerman. Low and behold, he did just that! For sure, you can always count on a real treat because he really knows how to dish it. Feed your eyes and ears on this. It’s a veritable mind feast…
To be fair, I think it’s only right to acknowledge a separate video put together by Trent Sawyer, under his pseudonym of stateoftheinternet, that also used part of my footage from The Retreat at Twin Lakes complex.
Finally, I want to thank Frederick Leatherman for posting and promoting my video on his blog, and Xena for helping to put it all together. This is truly a concerted effort. We are seeking nothing more than justice — without skipping dessert or running from the truth.
Dave Knechel | tagged Frederick Leatherman, Trent Sawyer, stateoftheinternet | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, LLMPapa, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Sanford, Seminole County, Slimm v. Zimm, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 2 References 
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Reader Comments (169)
Vicky~~now you have me feeling sorry for Britt. lolol
Run, Britt, run!!
SempreInvictus, while she is answering your questions, maybe she'll give a yes or no to my simple question.
By the bye, love the way you express yourself.
Vicky ~~I was just kidding. You asked some very good questions. Now we shall await some answers from Britt.
By the way there are chemical changes in muscles that cause limbs to become stiff during rigor mortis. The process begins shortly after death and normally peaks after 12 hours and dissipates for the next 24 to 48 hours, when the body becomes limp again. However, according to a close friend, who is also an MD, rigor mortis does not result in a reduction in the measured height of the deceased person. As a matter of fact, she laughed at me for even calling her to ask. She did advise me that humans do begin to "shrink" with age and told me I'd be shopping in the petite section before too many more years.
She also said if Britt can provide proof that rigor causes loss of height, she would be very much interested in that information so she can pass it along to her colleagues at KU medical school..
Sometimes the comments are entertaining, eh Snoop? I have missed you, Dave..good to be back!
[I am very happy you are back, dadgum. Believe me on that one! Thank you.]
Hey there, dadgum. I missed you too. We need a break from the doom and gloom with a bit of humor once in awhile. I am glad that I am on Sempre Invictus' (Vicky's) side and not her enemy. She would scare the daylights out of me causing premature stunted growth and rigor mortis to set in while I was still alive. lol
You guys are great. :) Although, I'm sure he or she will come back for more.
So how many people had their SO killed and you knew in the last moments of their young life they were scared of this "old man" and that man chased him, held him down, and shot him, yet didn't report it to the cops? You can make fun of me all you want, I dont care, I know a jury is going to have a very hard time with that. Also, you really dont think during jury selection they wont find actual people who have once been scared for their lives and wont understand why if Trayvon was so scared he went back to George. By all means analyze shadows and ghost people on a film, but its going to come down to reality, and of course Trayvons school records which will show a troubled kid and his social media accounts describing himself as the no limit N word who subscribed to MMA channels on youtube. Also, I admire Papa and alot of his videos throughout the years, we just disagree on this one class, but he has shown more class than any of you here, thats for sure.
[Britt - No one is making fun of you, and I won't allow it. The problem with many commenters has to do with the claims you make, like Trayvon being 6'2" tall. He was not. I offered proof through the official autopsy report and you shrugged it off and made up some poppycock. People are asking you to back up your claims with documentation. You have not. Therefore, it has been nothing more than opinion based on nothing other than prejudice. I wouldn't dare call you a racist, but how can someone take a particular side based on nothing factual?
You may have legitimate gripes, and I understand that, but let's get real. The only evidence you have is George's word. George has lied and lied and lied about the events of the night of Feb. 26. While on the phone with the dispatcher, he never said that Trayvon came back to circle around his vehicle. That would have been threatening, yet he never mentioned it until after the shooting. He was never asked to give an address, either. There's so much more, but suffice it to say, his stories are shallow.
There is no proof that Trayvon doubled back, either. You say that he ran all the way from the south end, near his father's girlfriend's home, but there's no proof of that. Wherever these stories are brewing, even your star attraction, George hisself, never claimed that. He said Trayvon came out from behind a bush. When you and his followers found there were no bushes high enough to hide the boy, you made up a different story. Why? Now, you emphatically state that Trayvon's school records will sink him; they will show proof that he was troubled child, but where is that proof today? In order to make such claims, you need to have evidence to back this up. You do not. As for his social media accounts, I am going to have a WHOLE article on that topic. But understand one thing first - salty language does not a bad kid make. In order to say otherwise is to condemn a generation of teens who speak the same language; black and white and hispanic, just like George. That means millions of kids are nothing more than killing machines. It is completely unfair to single out one boy, and you know it.
One thing is certain. You are entitled to your opinion and you are allowed to express it here on my blog. However, people want concrete facts, not just mere claims from a person who has isolated this child and laid blame on him for all that's wrong with the world.
And about class? Who has it and who doesn't? Your claim is just like Zimmerman's supporters calling me fat and dumpy while placing their fat and dumpy leader on a pedestal. Who says what? That's pure hypocrisy.]
GM all!
A few things to ponder and maybe make you smile. A day without laughter is a wasted day. Just as a life without God is like a unsharpened pencil,it has no point
JMHO of course.
Is it true that you never really learn to swear until you learn to drive?
If a cow laughed, would milk come out of her nose?
Whatever happened to Preparations A through G ?
[Good morning, Tommy's Mom! Preparation D is the O'Mara defense. Preparation G is getting his client ready for trial. I'm not sure about the other letters, but Preparation F might have something to do with food or fat.]
Dave, seriously, I know what the autopsy said, but I also have eyes and in the last known pics of Tryavon Martin, he was well beyond 6 feet. Do you just not believe me about rigor mortis? Its not like I am making it up, not that it even matters. I think a lot of men can tell you, that at 17 they were probably in the best shape of their lives. Setting every issue aside, the club house, the gun, etc, the only person painting Trayvon as scared and running from George, did not report what happened directly before he died to authorities. Why did she not tell anyone until she was made public via Trayvon Martin parents lawyer? If you heard your friend being chased and stalked and you knew they died, went to the funeral, and you just leave out the fact he was murdered?
[Britt - But I fail to see your logic. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then there are 1,000 different interpretations of one single photograph. What you are telling me is that you would argue over an autopsy report utilizing a grainy screen capture from a low resolution video. The defense is not arguing this way. Why are you? What will you prove? Shrinking mumbo jumbo rigor mortis is voodoo doo doo not based on any science. It is merely your argument, and the defense will have nothing to do with it. Basically, what you are doing is arguing with science AND Zimmerman's defense team. To serve what purpose? Nothing you are saying will be brought up at trial. Trayvon was 5'11" tall and you can make Internet claims all you want to no avail.
The same holds true with Trayvon's girlfriend. She had no idea he died that night. She was a 16-year-old girl, for crying out loud. Were you mature and responsible at that age? How about 17? Why do you lump these kids into some category of adulthood when you, obviously, feel they are inferior human beings? You want your cake and to eat it, too. Trayvon and Dee Dee were stupid black people, yet you contradict yourself by expecting them to act like mature adults. Where is the logic in that?
No, I do not believe you about rigor mortis. You do not shrink in size. After a few hours of rigor mortis, your body relaxes and loosens up again, anyway. The State, the Defense, and the Court are going to honor the medical examiner's report. Why won't you?]
Britt
Several comments directed to you have asked you to reference where you acquire your information. You have continued to ignore those requests. So I'll ask again. Where in this world do you get your facts? Are you quoting someone with an education or are these your ideas and you want us to take them as facts? I have lost two inches in my height,due to age and a back injury. Trust me it's not due to rigor mortis. Where do you come up with the stuff in your comments? Are you expecting someone to believe the inane comments about Dave's writing or comments posted by others. Claiming people here make fun of you,who,when,what comments? As far as I can see your comment "I don't care" is the only true comment you've posted. It appears you don't care about truth and aren't willing to listen to it. A differenace of opinion is one thing your comments are a whole different thiing.
'Hear this now, O foolish people, Without understanding, Who have eyes and see not, And who have ears and hear not' Jeremiah 5:21 NKJV
Maybe you should start your own blog and see if you can develope a following of like minded individuals.
I like Britt. I do understand how people get caught up in ideas. Some people feel that this case is an affront to their right to bear arms. Others are severely prejudiced. It can be a combination of the two to some degree. With racism, there is no excuse other than being brought up in a world where parents instill it in their children. Prejudice is a two-way street, too. The New Black Panthers are just as hate-filled as the KKK and that ilk. Everyone, no matter what color, holds an element of racism inside. As to the Second Amendment, Zimmerman's brandishing a gun and using it did not make it right. Thousands of people a year that purchase their guns legally are charged with murder. What makes this case so different from any other murder? Because the victim is black? Because Al Sharpton opened his mouth? Take that away and look at the case from a less skewed view and tell me what you think. Is it strictly because the victim was black that opinions are more racial in tone and Zimmerman is forgiven for what he did? What is most important? The truth or prejudicial thought? All I know is that Zimmerman has lied every step of the way and it's absolutely impossible to convolute the lies into the truth. It belies common sense.
Like I said, I like you, Britt, but you cannot just make claims without merit just because you say so. If you make statements about rigor mortis and shrinkage, there's got to be some kind of scientific research and analysis; some sort of medical journal that backs up your claim. Or it doesn't work.
Dave. Can I ask a special favor, please? The next time you think about giving of yourself, can you hand me a dose of your patience?
:-)
[I always give everyone the benefit of the doubt, Xena, and Britt knew the first time she came into my blog that her point of view did not match the majority of commenters. I've got to give credit where it's due. She's tenacious. She's not a quitter, and I admire that. I don't happen to agree with her, but she doesn't agree with me, either, and she has that right. And she can say so here. I want to listen to all sides, but at the same time, the argument has to have substance. That's all any of us ask for. If there's no foundation, then the house will fall. People cannot just make up the rules as they go. They cannot make up evidence, either. Trayvon Martin is not 6'2" tall. The official record is 5'11" and nothing will change the facts. Rigor mortis does not shrink a person. A statement like that has no scientific merit. If someone brings this kind of thing to the table, it is going to be debunked and it has nothing to do with personal feelings. It's just the way it is.
I can be quite patient, but not always. There are a few who have felt my wrath, but in Britt's case, I think she is basing her input on nothing more than her own feelings, and that doesn't cut it. I don't want to fight with her, I want to discuss this like adults. That's something Trayvon and DeeDee were not.]
The reason I paid any attention to this case was because I was outraged at a grown man killing the little child I saw on the news. As I looked into it, it turned out that Trayvon was not accurately portrayed and this was originally a race issue, or did I imagine the Black Panthers putting a bounty on his head? It kinda seems as time evolved the racial element was taken out, where is the proof he was or is a racist, or am I missing why Jesse Jackson and Sharpton got involved with this in the first place?
[Well then, that changes things somewhat. However, Trayvon had no idea what photos would be released post-death. He had no idea Al Sharpton would get involved. He most certainly knew nothing about the New Black Panther Party. As a matter of fact, Trayvon's family condemned the Panthers. Why is Trayvon responsible for what came out of the woodwork? Because of the actions of a few who you disagree adamantly with, does that mean George Zimmerman is blameless? Free of wrongdoing? Does that mean Trayvon grew 3" the night he was shot, only to shrink back down in autopsy?
You see, you are lumping all of these actions together and rationalizing in your head that this mess was completely Trayvon's fault, yet he has no voice to respond to your allegations or anyone else's. Wholeheartedly, you have grasped onto Zimmerman's account of events because of what others have said and done subsequent to the shooting. Trayvon had nothing to do with the New Black Panthers and you know it.
If you have problems with any of those people and organizations, it is foolish to take it out on the dead, and it's more foolish to take Zimmerman's word simply because of prejudice or anything else. No one here is calling Zimmerman a racist, but calling Trayvon one doesn't work, either.
Focus on one man, one boy, and one gun. That's what the trial will be about, not rules and evidence made-up by outsiders with no vested interest whenever it suits them. In other words, there will be no, "But Your Honor, Britt says he was 6'2". I don't care what the coroner says!"]
Dave, I promise too use a bit more restraint in my comments.
I would like to point out one minor detail regarding DeeDee.
Unless I am mistaken, it has not yet been revealed exactly if or when she first reported her conversation with Trayvon and to whom. We do know that Crump reached out to her when it was discovered that her number was on Trayvon's phone records on the night he was killed.
I haven't read where anyone has even asked her that question.
It could very well be that she made mention of her conversation with him to her mother and her mom asked that she not tell anyone about what she heard. Depending on her background and that of her family, their might have been a great deal of mistrust in the "system" and her mom didn't want her child caught up in such a volatile situation.
Additionally, young people are natorious for not involving police when they witness or have information about a crime. As a matter of fact, quite a few adults don't either. There are times when family members are fully aware of the identity of the person who killed their loved one, but do not willingly provide that enforcement to LE.
[That's an interesting point about DeeDee. For anyone to come to conclusions when all of the facts have not been laid bare yet is just plain wrong. By the way, you are writing some incredible comments. Great observations!]
Lost in all the horrible politics surrounding his death is the story of a boy. Before he became yet another flash point in America's painful and never-ending racial drama, Trayvon Martin was just a normal teenager. Here, at last, is the story of what was lost on that February night.
Read the story here at Esquire.....
Trayvon
[Incredible find, Snoopy! Thank you. I'm going to go out and buy that magazine.]
Thank you for finding and posting that Snoopy. My heart breaks for Trayvon's family and his friends. I don't know how people can rationalize their demonizing a victim the way they have this young man. I have never tried to paint Trayvon as a saint. I honestly dont care what his grades were like or whether or not he was suspended from school or smoked weed. It doesn't matter to me that George Zimmerman made a few youthful mistakes along his way to adulthood. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that both of them experienced "phases" during their teen years. Like many other teenagers.
It is clear that Trayvon was loved deeply by his family and that despite the struggles he was having prior to his death, he was surrounded by people who reminded him that he was a wonderful young man with a wonderful future ahead. When I read the family's account of Trayvon's final year, I was reminded of my son. He went through a similar period during his junior year of high school. Thank God he was given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes and grow into a wonderful man and father.
I can't and will never excuse George Zimmerman for taking it upon himself to police his neighborhood, rather than allowing the men and women hired by the City of Sanford to do so. Trayvon was not breaking a single law when targeted by George Zimmerman. George went looking for trouble, and the result of his irresponsible actions was the needless death of a seventeen year old on his way home from the store. Why is that so darn hard for people to understand?
Vicky~ ~you are very welcome. I hope many people read that story. It is heartbreaking to know that young man never got to have a future as he had so much potential and a family who was guiding him in the right direction. Is it just me or do the good ones seemed to taken much too soon?
Finally some action on O'Mara's website
An excerpt...
On June 20, we updated our goals, in regards to Disputing Misinformation, to include posting public documents associated with the case. We received a number of responses to our article “Zimmerman Defense Invites Public Scrutiny of Media Policy” which noted that, while we have been posting some of the public documents associated with the case, we have not posted all public documents associated with the case. The criticism is that by being selective about what we post, we are effectively editorializing with our decision of omission or inclusion.
From now on, we will post ALL public documents associated with the Zimmerman case, including motions filed by the defense and the State, as well as orders filed by the Court. We will file Notices of Deposition; however, we will continue to maintain the previously guarded privacy of certain witnesses, and will not post the names of witnesses being deposed unless their names have been previously disclosed by the State. These witness categories include law enforcement officers and witnesses who have voluntarily disclosed their identity to the media.
Read more here and check out links....
Update on Media Policy for the Zimmerman Defense
[Looks like de la Rionda made a major boo boo when releasing info on some of the witnesses. Uh-oh. I wonder what will happen with that?]
It does seem like that sometimes, Snoopy. Reading that article made me feel so much empathy for Trayvon's family. Attempting to make a hero or victim out of George Zimmerman is like cheering for the bully on a playground.
@ Britt: What did you think of your diminutive hero’s old mug shot that we gaped at while we cried our hearts out over the harrowing last word’s of the child he had remorselessly cut down?
I guess Zimmerman was too busy running for cover to worry about that image. Running for cover from the Black Panthers—or running for cover because he had been tipped off that the 911 call with the final pleadings of Trayvon Martin was going to be released? I know which one I believe—without a doubt.
Remember fuc**ing *oons? What is that you say? Punks? No, cold? Sure.
Now, why would you want to bring the race element back? How far away do you think the race element really is?
What about the 44 days and no arrest? How would that make you feel if Trayvon Martin had been your son?
I thank God for Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton. I thank God for Benjamin Crump and Natalie Jackson. Because without them, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin would have had to bury their son and watch his killer walk free. Unscathed.
Justice for Trayvon!!
[Zimmerman definitely profiled Trayvon when he told the dispatcher he was up to no good and on drugs. Even if he said "f*ckin' goons" under his breath, the Goons are a Sanford gang. Zimmerman definitely convicted Trayvon on the spot that night, and he divvied out the penalty, too. The penalty phase was the chase.]
Dave~~this is way off topic but interesting... criminals are getting more cunning eh?
17 arrested in Jacksonville ID theft, tax fraud at banks
On topic....
George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin case update: Big change in gun law not expected from task force
[Angela Corey is a pretty busy State Attorney, I would say. As for the SYG law, I cannot make a judgement call on the task force recommendations. I can't say if there is something wrong with the law or not. What the law does mean, though, is that you cannot shoot first and claim self-defense without a strong reason. For sure, Zimmerman knew all about SYG and self-defense because it was part of his curricula in college, and he had professional training in using and concealing a gun. He said he never heard of the SYG law, yet he applied self-defense within seconds of the shooting. Heck, I knew about SYG and I never owned a gun. Wouldn't one think a person studying criminal law should have more understanding of the law than a common citizen? After all, he was learning the skills of becoming an officer of the law. He also has a quick temper as his record shows. Good thing he'll never be a cop now. Bad for Trayvon, though.]
So was it a lie that Georges neighboorhood was targeted by a gang called the goons?
[What does that question have to do with Trayvon? He was not involved with that gang, but according to Zimmerman and you, he was. Therefore, he deserved to be shot and killed. Go figure.
By the way, there is nothing on file about gang related activity at the R@TL, but you are free to imagine anything you want. Also, Zimmerman starts his 911 calls the same way; that there have been break-ins in the neighborhood. THAT IS A BLATANT LIE. THERE HAVE BEEN NO BREAK-INS!!! Do your research. There have been burglaries. A burglary is when someone steals your OUTDOOR backyard grill or bike. A break-in is when someone breaks INTO your home, whether you are INSIDE or not.
I don't know about you, but I follow the law and evidence in a case. I DO NOT make anything up, and certainly not to suit my fancy.]
Noticing mention of Dee Dee re the reporting of her call with Trayvon, has there been anything said about where Dee Dee was when on the call with him at the time of his death. Is there anyone known to be in her presence, building up to, during those last minutes of talking to Trayvon, to know her immediate reaction at hearing and thinking she had just witnessed something terrible happening to him. Was anyone observing Dee Dee during that time. Was she with friends, at home alone in her room, out somewhere?
[Those are great questions, New Puppy, and there are no concrete answers yet. That's why it's so important that no one jump to conclusions about what DeeDee should have done that night or the next day. (No, I don't mean you.) DeeDee didn't know Trayvon was shot and killed. Who, at 16, thinks of death? That's why I can't understand how some people (hint, hint) blame her, too, for his death. Zimmerman pulled the trigger. What led up to the fatal shot is much more important than how DeeDee reacted days later. Who, at 16, thinks of calling the cops on anything unless it's a right here, right now, in your face moment?
I wish I had answers to your questions because they will most likely be asked at trial. But it will be nothing more than a defense ploy to character assassinate the victim - Trayvon. There are people that would just love to silence DeeDee, any way they can.]
New Puppy~~that is a very good question! I don't believe there has been anything mentioned who may have observed Dee Dee when she was talking to Trayvon while he was being pursued by Z. What was her demeanor at the time? Her phone records will show she was on the phone with him but how she reacted to the call after the connection was broke off would be very important.
Dave~~Dee Dee's demeanor or what she may have told her family about that last call to Trayvon would be classed as hearsay and not admissable at trial unless Dee Dee testifies to it herself. I think.
I would like to see a few new rules added to the Neighborhood Watch. For instance, anyone pursuing a suspicious person under their watch or carrying a concealed and carry while on foot patrol be held accountable if caught doing so. Zimmerman, as the captain, should have been setting a good example instead he took it upon himself to break at least four rules. He pursued, he left the security of his vehicle, he did not identify himself when he had the opportunity and he was armed.
When Z called NEN 911, he should have identified himself immediately as a NHW , gave his location and then described the situation as he observed it. This should all have occured while he remained in his vehicle. He had no need to exit his vehicle and would never have been instructed to do so by the NEN dispatcher. Z knew that neighborhood like the back of his hand and would have had no problem telling the dispatcher his exact location. If Z thought Trayvon ran towards the back entrance, he could have driven there to see if he could spot him and relayed this to the dispatcher. Z had every opportunity to not put himself in harms way against this unidentified suspicious individual.
If what I have just stated is brought up at the self-defense immunity hearing in April, Judge Nelson will deny Z immunity hands down. I just hope that the NHW program will not suffer from Zimmerman's bad actions and people will not be reluctant in volunteering to help keep their neighborhood safer from real burglars.
[Interesting, Snoopy. In it's DECLARATION FOR THE RETREAT AT TWIN LAKES, made by by TOUSA HOMES, INC., Inc., a Florida corporation ("TOUSA") and joined in by GMAC MODEL FINANCE, INC., a Virginia corporation, ("MHF") and The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, Inc., a Florida
not-for-profit corporation ("Association")...
RECITALS:
13.31. Nuisances. No nuisance or any use or practice that is the source of unreasonable annoyance to others or which interferes with the peaceful possession and proper use of The Retreat at Twin Lakes is permitted. No firearms shall be discharged within The Retreat at Twin Lakes. Nothing shall be done or kept within the Common Areas, or any other portion of The Retreat at Twin Lakes, including a Home or Lot which will increase the rate of insurance to be paid by Association.
(Me again) Zimmerman broke the rules of just being human. He had absolutely no common sense that night. It is also my understanding that no NW community anywhere in the nation has come to his defense. Why is that? Because he's bad news and he's given other NW programs a bad name.]
Dave
I have great admiration for you and your writing,I believe you are fair minded,inteligent,compassionate and very patient.
I hold most of those who post here in high regard, Sempre Invictus,nan11,Xena and New Puppy to name just a few. I always learn something of value. I believe you're never to old to learn.
Thanks Snoopy for the artice on Trayvon, I do admire Tray's family. They only ask for a fair trial.
I've mentioned to many friends "patience is a virtue,that I lack". I'm trying to do better,mostly by avoiding situations that might cause me to show my lack of that virtue. I've decided responding to comments that lack substance,facts or are total lies is a waste of whatever time I may have left. I will therefore content myself with reading your blog and comment only when I have a "nice" comment on a post of real interest based on evidence to support the subject.
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened. ~Cora Harvey Armstrong~
Britt said: So was it a lie that Georges neighboorhood was targeted by a gang called the goons?
@ Britt: You mean was it a lie when Serino explained to Georgie how the gang called ‘goons’ actually dressed?
Black on black, I believe was his advisement. That was so the next time Georgie was out on parole with his gun tucked in his waistband, he would be better versed in what to look for..
In my opinion, the fact that George prejudged Trayvon as a member of the Goons has everything to do with his actions that night, and will likely be used In part to establish his depraved mind.
If George honestly believed he was in pursuit of a gang member, there is no way he would have exited his truck before first making certain his gun was still in its holster.
He had taken a college course on juvenile offenders, so he would have been well versed in the potential risk he was assuming when he exited his vehicle to go after Trayvon. Keeping that in mind, I believe that when Trayvon came face to face with George, he was dealing with a man fully prepared to shoot him if he deemed it necessary. George came face to face with a teenager who had no idea why the man who had been following him in a truck, was now standing in front of him. In all likelihood, Trayvon viewed George as a threat, not as a concerned citizen.
By his own admission, George did nothing to calm Trayvon's fears or diffuse the situation. Instead he continued to view Trayvon as a drug crazed gang member. Whatever happened in the next few seconds we will never know for certain, but it was too late for Trayvon. The moment Trayvon made an effort to defend himself, George's fear and pent up frustration took over. George Zimmerman was convinced that he was dealing with a gangster and there was no way he was going to let the "asshole" get away. Trayvon most likely thought he was dealing with some drug crazed psycho himself and fought like the dickens to get away.
Sadly, all because George Zimmerman is an immature, impulsive, paranoind, self proclaimed expert in human behavior, drug use and gangster detection, Trayvon Martin lost his life.
Dave~~you mentioned this upthread in your response to me...
From News One: The tragic case of slain teen Trayvon Martin at the hands of faux security guard George Zimmerman may have fallen from the public eye for some, but a new development in the case is sure to catapult the matter back to the forefront. After carefully guarding the names of witnesses and other sensitive items of the case, lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda (pictured) made a huge mistake in leaking names of a dozen witnesses, which could derail the case altogether, reports the Orlando Sentinel.
more here....
Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin trial leaks a dozen witness names
A bit more here from the Orlando Sentinel....
But lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda has inadvertently leaked the names of nearly a dozen witnesses, violating a court order.
It's not clear what will happen now and whether he'll face any sort of sanction or punishment from the judge in the case, Debra S. Nelson in Sanford.
George Zimmerman prosecutor mistakenly leaks witness names
The biggest problem I have at this time is GZ's judgment. If this all comes down to GZ believing he had to shoot to save his own life, surely someone will recognize his judgment that night on any matter was extreme.
Gosh darn, I don't know how to explain what I am thinking. Let me put it this way....asmuch as GZ had trumped up about TM while talking to NEN, what did it actually take for GZ to think his life was in danger? His judgment from the beginning was outside of reality.
Michelle: If you drop in, I think you will enjoy these latest videos by LLMPapa. The first one especially. LLMPapa goes through several of the looming discrepancies in Zimmerman's timeline, and be prepared for the ending. It is funny!
The second one, points out one of Zimmerman's many little stumbles. Who knows why? I think it is just a liar fishing around in his depraved mind for the most beneficial lie.
LLMPapa rocks, though. ┌( ಠ‿ಠ)┘
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Nov 15, 2012 by LLMPapa | Trayvon Martin, Rocket Man
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Nov 15, 2012 by LLMPapa | To See Who Else Is.....
Newbie~~I know what you are trying to say. One could also assume that Z deliberately put himself in a position of danger so he would have a good excuse to eliminate a burglar and claim self-defense. He provoked Trayvon and took a couple of hits and then made his move with the gun. (One could almost believe that some of Z's wounds may have been self-inflicted, it is not unheard of.) This would make him a hero in the eyes of his cop buddies at SPD and would be well worth it. We have to keep in mind all the mentoring/brain washing Z was administered by his tutor, Mark Osterman. I would call George Zimmerman a product of Mark Osterman. Z was in a vulnerable state when Mark hooked up with him and look at what a mess he turned out. JMO
Newbie, I've said from the first and I haven't seen anything to change my mind. I think Z's judgement was impaired from start to finish by the medications he was taking. Whether that will work for the defense or prosecution will only be seen at trial. For someone to follow a person, run,jog, or skip after him, then tussle and shoot him, all without raising his heart rate is on some powerful drugs IMO. Adrenalin and the excitement of what he'd just gone through alone should have raised it. (citing EMS report taken 20 minutes after the shooting). He sits in the courtroom like he's on something that calms him. Even Casey Anthony showed more interest in her own proceedings.
As for DeeDee's phone call and why she didn't report it immediately, I'll agree with Dave that she didn't know what happened to him. I can imagine her trying to call Trayvon's phone and getting voice mail instead and getting scared that something did happen, or simply that something happened to the phone when he dropped it. She did eventually report it to her parents I or they wouldn't have taken her to talk to a lawyer.
Trayvon lived in Miami were street gangs of Latino decent like the Y L O s Young Latins regularly attack rivals..Trayvon was likely more street smart than GZ unfourtunately was more retreat at twin lakes smart than Trayvon..Attack at twin lakes is what he did,,,I M O George never ventured into the dark to chase after his victim..I M O He left his truck an ran along the main street well lighted an he knew he could surveil Trayvon from either a house backporch or through one of the cut throughs at the side of the houses..Gz may have asked one of the tnease to cut through his house an suprise Trayvon or catch him in the act..Gz was suprised when told the back porch was blocked off an unable to access the dog path.So he went to plan B an cut through the side of the houses likeley scratching him self up as he emerged from the bushes folling Trayvons voice as he chatted to Dee Dee an confronted Trayvon...
He then wandered towards the T to plant evidence to support an attack from behind at the T..The schoolteacher reports gz walking towards the T after the shooting.He drops his key an small flashlight still turned on..He wanted those items found otherwise he would have picked them up....Reality he dropped them.
Ok, so the girl says she is on the phone with Trayvon. That he sees a man and hes being followed. Then they are cut off, phone is dead. She had to have known he died since she was at the funeral. Or is there something wrong with her that she is not aware she is at the funeral? Was she in a cataonic state? How is it possible she did not realize how he got shot when someone was chasing him? Oh, and yeah, I can just imagine if O'Mara had accidently leaked stuff again. Good one Bernardo!
Britt~~I will agree with you on one thing in that had O'Mara leaked those witness names, there would be hell to pay. De La Rionda is no match for Mark O'Mara. BDLR is too hyper and disorganized.
If you take into consideration BLDR stating that Baez was held in contempt of court for talking to the media ( a gag order was not even in place), the state can chalk up four faux pas. One a violation of a court order.
JMO
@ Britt: What makes you think that DeeDee didn’t know Trayvon had been shot dead by big fat Georgie?
Trayvon was laid to rest on March 3/12, iirc. It is my understanding that DeeDee did attend his wake, but had to be hospitalized afterward; so, I don’t know what your point is. : - )
Just in case you are interested in a little bit of truth:
Quote:
"The 17-year-old was on the phone with his girlfriend as Zimmerman began to follow him, and because she is a minor, RadarOnline . com isn't disclosing her name. The Sanford Police Department never questioned Trayvon's girlfriend, even though her parents contacted the cops to tell them she wanted to come in for a sit down interview."
BTW - Remember when O’Mara hid Zimmerman’s 2nd passport? Oh, excuse me, I should have said do your remember when he explained that he had ‘forgotten’ it in his briefcase for how long? Thirty days, wasn’t it?
MOO
I really dont care about the drama regarding money or the passport. I am more focused on the events of the night, not the surrounding hoopla that ensues every high profile case.
There is a big issue about the girl and the time she revealed to anyone in authority what she had heard, which essentially was Trayvon being stalked and running from a man. Trayvon ends up dead, am I supposed to maybe go along with the thought that she somehow was so stupid she could not put two and two together? There is also a lot of speculation of she ever went to the funeral, as there are conflicting reports. If she went and knew in his last moments her boyfriend was being chased down by some guy and scared for his life and she didn't tell anyone, why not? I know it says the parents wanted to take her to the cops, I mean what parents wouldnt call Trayvons parents and tell them and let them do what they had to do? that does not make any sense. There has to be a reason this girl never told anyone until weeks later. This stuff is important.
Sempre, as charming as you are to me, I am not sure why you think I am under any obligation to answer your questions.
I think DeeDee was either afraid or thought his phone had been broken in the struggle. As to why she didn't report it right away I think Ecossie hit it on the head when she said "Trayvon lived in Miami were street gangs of Latino decent like the Y L O s Young Latins regularly attack rivals..".Isn't there a code of silence having to do with snitches in an area like that? That alone would put fear in a 16 y/o girl.
I never thought of a scenario where Zimmerman heard TM talking to his girlfriend and found him that way, but it's logical. That brings up the question of why he didn't stay where he was and just keep an eye on him. After all, that's what a block watch captain is supposed to do. Well, actually, he's supposed to call someone when he loses sight of someone and ask if they see him and keep an eye that way (informing the police when they show up)- not chase him down or run to see where he went. If he had witnessed a murder I could understand Zimmerman's actions, but in this case it didn't warrant all his attention.
Britt~~Sempre, as charming as you are to me, I am not sure why you think I am under any obligation to answer your questions.
lolol You gotta watch her, Britt. She has been noted for messing with people' s minds but I got wise to her.
As for their being a code, the story is she heard some "old man" talking to Trayvon. The girl was hours away and had no loyalty to anyone in Sanford. Her boyfriend DIED. Why did she not run screaming to the cops as soon as she found out? Maybe she did hear EXACTLY what happened and she kept her mouth shut to protect Trayvon?
Britt, of course you are under no obligation to answer a single question I posed to you.. I was honestly trying to figure out where you are coming from. It is my belief that we all bring our own life experiences to a debate over an issue like this. I apologize if I offended you..
I will leave Dave and others to address your assertions and will stick with conversing with those who are interested in an exchange of ideas and opinions. and who are more open to reciprocal exchanges of dialogue..
Snoopy, I will deal with you later.. :)
Sempre~~I am at the airport and off to the Foreign Legion...
I often wonder why Benjamin Crump interviewed Dee Dee and then let ABC air the phone conversation. Was what his reasoning for doing this? Anyone? Why didn't SPD do the first interview with Dee Dee?
Snoopy, that is a question that will most likely be answered following formal depositions. My guess, however, is that with the initial decision not to charge George, the SPD was under the impression that further investigation was unnecessary. Based upon what we know to date, it is unclear whether or not the SPD was contacted regarding DeeDee's information before crump became involved. If I had to guess, contact was made at some time before Crump taped the interview and it appeared to Crump that the SPD had no interest in pursuing the information. That remains to be seen.
I personally don't have an issue with any delay on Dee Dee's part in coming forward. I think pretty much anyone with some level of experience in working with individuals from various ethnic, cultural and social backgrounds, are very much aware of why she might have withheld information.
What we do know, is that Dee Dee was in fact on the phone with Trayvon within minutes of his death. What we do know if that she gave her version of what happened before George's statements were released to the public. We also know that much of what she reports to have heard, is consistent with George's more self serving version.
Nan, I believe the term "big fat Georgia" is in error. GZ weighed more than TM at the time of the murder but was not carrying the weight that he does now. Just so you know.
@ Britt: Hehe--of course, you don’t care about the ‘money’ or the ‘passport’ drama. I understand.
There is only a ‘big issue’ about ‘the girl’ and ‘the time’ because you and your ilk are making it a big issue.
At first, the ‘cops’ were not interested in what she had to say. Funny about that, huh?
Within days of the shooting, Tracy Martin—searching for answers on his own— reviewed Trayvon’s phone records and discovered that Trayvon had been on the phone with DeeDee very close to the time he was shot dead by Zimmerman. Mr. Crump contacted DeeDee the day after Trayvon’s wake, and DeeDee ended up in the hospital for some twelve hours.
In order to protect DeeDee from those who would most certainly harm her, we don’t have much information.
Mrs. Fulton said that she started hearing Trayvon mention a ‘Dee Dee’ sometime in December. That would make me suspect that the two families had most likely never met.
No arrest was made in this case for 44 days; and it did not happen without huge pressure being brought to bear.
Do you think that would instill confidence in a 16 year old, African American girl; and make her want to beg the cops to listen? With information the cops might not have been happy to receive?
Her story makes a great deal of sense to me, Britt—and to others. I suspect that is really why you are so worried.