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    « LLMPapa's Video Depiction Could Cook Up A Zimmerman Conviction | Main | Call Me A "Gagnostic" »

    Retreat at Twin Lakes Walk Through

    Just like the title says, this is a video shot at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, including some bonus footage. The video is a little pixellated. I think the camera and video editing resolutions and frame rates are different. I may try to fix it and upload it again… 

    After viewing the video, simple questions arose. The evening of February 26, 2012 was cold, rainy and wet. It was a dreary night. Why would anyone get out of their vehicle to search for an address that no one asked for? Why get out of the vehicle at all? Addresses were quite visible all around. Wouldn’t driving to the other side have been much more convenient? And drier? In my opinion, this only leads to one thing — searching for a suspect on foot. George Zimmerman never looked for an address. He was stalking his victim.

    Cross posted on the Daily Kos

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    Reader Comments (66)

    This video must have been one of Stephen King or perhaps Alfred Hitchcock. Spooky, but then George Zimmerman is just that isn't he. Spooky Cooky, May have been something dizzying in my Halloween candy leftovers that has my mind reeling. Not a good combination as I am feeling like I am being followed by "The Shadow"!! You shouldn't do things like this!

    I take responsibility for the sound! The music was my choice only. I wanted something that would build up to a climax and abruptly end at the sidewalk T. I went through lots of songs, like I always do with a video, before settling on the Grieg piece in part one. It was coincidental that the timing worked out perfectly, but I must admit to some slight tweaking. The second part was the same thing, but I did want to use an original score, meaning one that was unfamiliar. I like the Website for music because I know it's safe to use.

    I'm glad it was effective, MO. It means I did my homework. Thank you.

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMO

    "The evening of February 26, 2012 was cold, rainy and wet. It was a dreary night. "

    In my opinion, this only leads to one thing — anyone walking in the shadows on a night like this are suspicious looking.

    [That's very interesting, Two Sides, and I appreciate your opinion. That means you see things from two sides, correct? That's what your name implies. That means George Zimmerman must also have been suspicious looking, as well. Right? Because you said so. In the night. By the way, Zimmerman had an auto. Trayvon did not. Can you sanely and logically explain why a boy with no car and no drivers license looks suspicious because he CANNOT drive? How do you expect someone like him to get around? If you have children, I suppose they should be in jail if they ever walk at night. So should you. Or shot. Would you agree with me on that? Of course you would because you said anyone walking at night is suspicious looking, at least from one of your two sides.]

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterTwo Sides

    Dave~~thanks for taking the time to make that video. Now I can understand that more than all the maps. You walk a pretty good click for an old fella. lol So it took you 1:58 mins approx. I never did try to figure out the times etc of what took place that fateful nite as it is way over my head. I have gone over in my mind what may have transpired but my thoughts went in many directions and speculation abounded. I created so many different scenarios that I was confusing myself. Many have made up their minds as to exactly what happened on the nite of Feb 26 and stand firm. I still remain flexible and I often wonder how the jurors will see this case.

    How will the jurors see the wounds and blood on Zimmerman? Even a hairline fracture of a nose is classed as a broken nose. In another couple of minutes, would Z have sustained severe bodily harm or even death?

    The police were responding to a call re a suspected burglar. I doubt if they had their sirens on. It was after the 911 call came in about the gun shot when things sped up in the response time. If Z had waited for LE instead of using the gun, what would have been the end result? Could Z physically have held Trayvon off until the cops showed?

    Those are just a couple of questions that a jury may ponder during deliberations. I realize there will be lots of evidence introduced but there will be loads of hearsay and evidence that will not be admissable.

    Just food for thought, Dave, and solely my own opinion.

    [Who said I shot the video??? It was an anonymous videographer whose name I will never disclose! I will admit that I edited the footage by cutting up sequences and adding text and sound.

    The time it took from when Z exited his vehicle to returning to the T where he states he was attacked was 1:44. I think that, as the pace of the music sped up, it created the illusion that the walker was moving faster, but it looked like an ordinary stride to me. Try watching that part with the sound down.

    My point of the video was to give both sides an idea about the time it would take to walk from point A to point B and to then factor it into the equation. On the NEN call, you can clearly hear Z's door open and close. Consider that the start time. How long was it before he hung up with the dispatcher? That should give you a good idea of where he was standing at that moment. Does this information help or hurt him? Each side will slant it their way, but the video doesn't lie. For all we know, Z could have been "skipping" along, but he sure wasn't crawling at a snail's pace. Take all of this into consideration when figuring in the 911 calls and the precise time of the gunshot and, hopefully, a clearer picture may evolve.

    I have no idea about Z's nose, but anything could have caused that fracture, not just his version. I think it was the kick of the gun when it was fired, but that's just my opinion. I would certainly tell the jury that!

    Could Z have held Trayvon physically? Obviously not. However, had he identified himself, none of this would have happened. Better yet, why did he get out of his vehicle on a cold, rainy night to begin with? Trayvon had no car. He had no choice but to walk. Yup, he was up to no good, but it's not Trayvon I'm talking about.

    Mainly, I just wanted this video to open up discussion on both sides. I have not compared any of the actual times yet, so I have no idea which side will benefit from it.

    Thanks, Snoopy.]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Dave ~~an afterthought.... I do not think that Zimmerman will win a self-defense immunity mini trial. My reasoning for this is:

    (1) Judge Nelson will be familiar with more evidence than what will be introduced. I think it will be hard for her to separate what she knows and what will be presented as evidence.
    (2) O'Mara will not put Zimmerman on the stand. Mark has to go thru the motions of having the immunity hearing but I doubt if he feels he has a prayer in winning so therefore, he will not expose George to a cross exam.

    [I think it would be foolish to put Z on the stand, too, but in her capacity as a judge, Nelson will have no problem distinguishing between what is and what is not evidence, and what is/isn't admissible. Even the State and defense won't include everything that's released in discovery.]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    So is the FACT the dispatch non emergency person said,which way did he run off, is that just forgotten? Is it really that shocking that someone may have went to look to answer the question? Or are we not supposed to get out of our vehicle in the presence of a 6'2 African America child?

    [Boy Britt... If I asked you which way the car went, did I just ask you to chase after it? The question had nothing to do with requesting anything from Zimmerman other than a direction. Which way did he go? He went thataway!

    Only an idiot would take that as a signal. A mutt, maybe, but not a pedigree. And now... you claim that Zimmerman knew Trayvon was 6'2" when the damn coroner wrote 71" (5'11") on his AUTOPSY? Only 158 lbs, too! DEAD WEIGHT.

    At no time did Zimmerman respond to the dispatcher in a manner that hinted he would go after the child or get an address. The address part was a made up excuse; made up after the fact. I'll bet you never watched a second of the video, either. You're afraid to.]

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterBritt

    shoot TM without shooting his own hand (his meaning GZ). Now, all of this was done while TM had his hNot that it matters at this point but I often wonder what could have happened if just one person within the complex had physically responded to the cries of "help", "help". If I remember correctly one man actually just said he would call the police. Then I have to ask myself, what would I have done. Then my mind goes to how many persons in that area had a gun within reach and could have stopped the whole thing. Would GZ have shot them too?

    Snoopy, I think a jury will also be thinking about the fact the police were on their way Also, according to GZ, he was able to control things enough that he could sqirm off the sidewalk, get ahold of TM and stop TM's attempt to get the gun AND then he was able to pull his gun,aim and and over GZ's mouth and nose while pounding GZ's head into the sidewalk.
    Oh, I think the jury will also be thinking about GZ's judgment which was more than extreme when he first saw TM. He had made statement about TM being up to something and that he must be on drugs or something etc etc .....I don't think I could trust GZ's judgment on how extreme the situation was making it necessary to shoot TM. (And, I'm not even going to bring up the fact that GZ has proven himself a liar.).

    My opinion ......GZ had that gun pulled before or at the time of finding TM. TM saw that gun pointed at him and you betcha, jumped that stranger who had been stalking him. and now had him within gun sight. No matter how it happened, I think GZ stalked TM and when TM saw the gun/had the gun pulled on him, did what he could.
    Okay, I'm stopping

    [Hey! You were on a roll! Good question about what Z would have done had a neighbor come out with a gun. Whatever, he would have lied about that shooting, too. Two dead. I also agree q00%, even though you didn't ask me, that Z had his gun out and ready the whole time. I sure hope a jury doesn't buy his crap.]

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterNewbie

    Dave, thanks for yet another MD field trip. Good thing it wasn't raining, LOL
    Has it ever been disclosed exactly where GZ parked his truck when he got out to "look for and address" at the end of the sidewalk where Trayvon was last seen "skipping" away?

    Snoopy, we will never know whether or not George had a broken nose. His failure to follow through with seeing a specialist made sure of that. A trip to the ER on the night of his brutal head banging would have revealed the extent of his injuries, but GZ refused that level of medical treatment as well. Had that been my husband, I would have raised a major stink at the police station, demanding that he be transported to the hospital prior to any questioning, and would have insisted that he go whether he felt it necessary or not. For the life of me, I can't figure out why that did not happen. People have dropped dead several hours following head trauma.

    During his last game of the football season, my grandson sustained a concussion following a hit that landed him on the ground, hitting the back of his head. He was wearing a helmet. He was taken immediately to the lockerroom for an assessment and then to the ER to be seen by a doctor.

    Other than having the worlds thickest skull, how in the dickens did GZ survive multiple, forced contacts with a sidewalk w/o any brain trauma?

    My amateur observation of his head wounds six months post incident lead me to believe his head injuries were nothing more than minor abrasions as there is no visible scarring on his scalp.

    [Here's my assessment of those injuries. His wife was practically a nurse, for crying out loud. If a layperson knows to send someone to the ER, don't you think someone in her capacity should have/would have done the same? Perhaps she knew he was not so bad. Don't go, it will only work against you, George.

    Thanks, SI. Like the old field trips of days past, huh? No way I would have ever crossed any of those No Tresspassing signs! As for Z's truck, all we have to go on is his word, but there may be people who will testify to that. It seems he was stalking the kid, anyway, and that's the route Trayvon took.]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Dr Invistus~~not only is your hubby hen pecked, you have insulted your thick skulled grandson and are practicing medicine without hands on touchy feelying your patients.

    Now with that out of the way, how the hoot have you been? lol

    I totally agree about there should have been a mandatory trip to the ER for Zimmerman. I fault LE for not insisting on this, Afterall, this was a homicide.

    [edit] oopsy daisy, you meant Z is thick skulled... sry about that... glad your g/son is level headed like his g/ma. ]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Newbie~~I have played the scenario over in my mind that Z had the gun at the ready when he left his vehicle in pursuit of Trayvon. Somehow he cornered Trayvon and then T tried to disarm him. If I were being stalked in the dark by an unknown assailant, my first instinct would be to put a lot of distance between that person and myself. Now if I were taken by surprise and suddenly staring down the barrel of a gun, I would take that bag containing the ice tea and swing it as fast and as hard as possible. A blow like that would knock Z on his fanny. BTW, no one liked my idea on swinging the bag which would account for no bruising on T's knuckles.

    Another thing that crossed my mind. Z seemed to reverse or tried to reverse the roles of himself and T. I am thinking that it was Z going for the gun in his holster and T trying to stop him. Well we know who ended up with the gun.

    For a person that was not going to offer any of my opinions or speculate on this case, here I am. LOL

    psst...can I blame it on you, Newb?

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Britt, what kind of NHW captain is clueless about how to report the names of the roads in a three street subdivision. Don't forget, it was raining. Only suspicious people walk around in the rain without an umbrella.

    Can you please explain why 28 year old, white Hispanic George didn't simply roll down his window as Trayvon circled his truck and identify himself as a concerned citizen? After all, he was on the phone with police dispatch. Not only that, George was a hero in the African American community. Did you miss out on the news that he spent his free time in the most dangerous part of Seminole County mentoring two black children? So, i would assume he is skilled in Afro-communication.
    Please explain this to me. I know he didn't have to identify himself, but had he done so, he wouldn't have needed to get out of his car and look all suspicious walking in the rain.
    Why is it that Trayvon has suddenly grown several inches!? Unfortunately he was never allowed to do so in life, has he suddenly become bigger than life? I'm personally shocked he wasn't carrying a basketball. Don't all 6'2" black kids play basketball?

    I was at a local high school this afternoon and observed a couple of guys hanging around in the parking lot after school (no hoodies, stocking caps). They were harassing a couple of girls leaving an after school activity. I rolled down my window and asked them if they were there for a specific reason. When they answered no, I told them to get back in their car and head on down the road.
    That is exactly what they did.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    I fault LE for not securing Zimmerman's vehicle and having it towed to their compound as evidence. I would like to know if there was a store list and extra cash or charge cards in the vehicle. Z said he was on his way to Target. What can you buy for fifty cents? He had 2 quarters in his pocket when taken into custody.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Seriously Dave, where does it say that if someone is involved in neighborhood watch on any level they can never carry a gun? Are you aware he wasn't on patrol, and there is NO PATROL? Are you saying he did not have the right to wear his gun the night he left to go to the STORE?

    [??? Who said anything about a gun in that video, Britt? Changing the subject? To answer you, though, he was licensed to carry a firearm in Florida. Concealed, too. I'm not contesting that, but it did not grant him a license to kill. I wear shoes, but I don't go around kicking people.]

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterBritt

    Britt~~when Zimmerman made the call to NEN, he left his role as a good hubby going to the store and became a NHW person. NHW do not carry weapons, concealed or otherwise when they are on foot patrol.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Britt, I could care less if GZ was armed. Since he was, there was absolutely no reason he shouldn't have spoken to Trayvon from the safety of his vehicle.
    Rather than being confrontational, why don take a stab at rational?

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Dave~~I am running out of Oopsy daisies... so you did not shoot the video, sorry about that. It sure looked like your shadow at the beginning.

    If you didn't shoot the video....did you shoot JR?

    [I'm not admittin' to nuthin', Snoopy. Who shot who and what is and will remain top secret.]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Man, something went wrong with the first of my other comment. You can blame yours on me and I'll blame the mess up beginning of my other comment on you.
    Good heavens, I'm beginning to sound like GZ....put the blame on others and not take responsibility for anything.
    Dr. Invictus", are you of the opinion that GZ avoided medical diagnosis knowing nothing would be serious or support his claim of being close to death?

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterNewbie

    Britt, Do you wear your gun at all times as well? Most people I know do not carry their firearm on their person at all times. At least not those who are not members of LE. Most certainly not when going to Target. Walmart maybe, but not Target. Just kidding. Then again it was raining and someone may have thought George looked suspicious walking through the target parking lot and punched him in the nose.
    Seriously, there are many places that do not permit guns. Most of the people I know, keep their firearm in their console or glove compartment. Not holsered behind their back whilendriving. Too uncomfortable.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Newbie, whatever would give you that impression? LOL

    I think a doctor would have called BS on GZ's head banging story. That or would have called in all the medical students and research professionals to observe and document the existence of a man with a skull of steel.
    IMO, there is absolutely no way GZ sustained the brutal beating he described with no signs of a concussion along with substantial bruising and/or a knot the size of a baseball on the back of his head. Most certainly noticeable in the photos taken of his iron noggin.
    A medical professional would have advised GZ that he is at serious risk of permanent brain injury in the future if he is ever exposed to any additional head trauma.
    He was so worried about making sure he repeatedly told his broken nose story over the following days, he completely forgot to talk about hismpost head banging symptoms.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Sempre~~you always bring out the best in me. Zimmerman in his confused state of mind being over medicated on his anxiety, ADHD, upset tummy, narcolepsy, sleep apnea, irritable bowels etc meds thought he was going to Target practice with Mark Osterman and not the Target store.

    Dave~~ you always bring out the worst in me. Why the big secret in who shot the video? Is it that bad so you wont admit being the camera person? That shadow was hairless. Don't worry I don't want to know who shot will remain your secret.

    [I was wearing a hat that day.]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Hey Newbie, it is your turn to buy the next round of ammo and I don't mean bullets. I need something to energize me while I shoot the chit...cheers!

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Dave, I am sitting here watching reruns of NCIS.. Sure wish they had been called in on the night in question.

    Which brings me to another question. Is it allowable for the prosecution to call the legislators who wrote and introduced the Florida SYG law as expert witnesses on the law?

    [As far as I know, it is not allowable to subpoena politicians. They are not expert witnesses and, odds are, they are no longer in office anyway. What they wrote and passed had too many signatures on it. What's been enacted is argued in the courtroom, but not by them.

    By the way, NCIS is one of my favorite shows - since the beginning, when it was a JAG spin off.]

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Snoopy, if I am not mistaken, GZ must have had his bill fold with him. Osterman claims SPD returned GZ's c/c permit that night and it was not listed anywhere. I would find it extremely odd for someone to have their permit in their pocket and not in a wallet.

    I'm glad I bring out the best in you. I just hope it doesn't get us in trouble.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    So are you saying if we see an African American child its best to stay in the car then get out so we dont provoke them? Where does it say as a member of neighborhood watch you can never carry a gun. You do know that there is not an active patrol right?

    November 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterBritt

    Sempre~~I would not doubt that Zimmerman had his conceal and carry permit in his gun holster. In that way, it would be with him at all times while carrying the weapon. I never heard of any mention of a wallet or the permit in any of the evidence taken as his personal belongings at SPD. They did keep the gun and holster. Did anyone notice if the holster had a side compartment to store a permit?

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Heavens no Britt. GZ did not report seeing an African American male skipping through the neighborhood. He reported seeing a suspicious teen who looked like he was on drugs and up to something. I don't give a shit what sex or color the kids skin is. If I saw an individual whose behavior was such that I felt compelled to call the police, I most certainly would not leave the safety of my car to follow. Neither would most other rational adults.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Britt~~me thinks you may be barking up the wrong tree. You have a tendency to get in your digs about African Americans. I think it is uncalled for. A NHW is always on the lookout for any illegal activity in their community. They do have a set of rules to adhere to. They are not to pursue a suspect or suspicious person. So if they are armed or not, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

    Zimmerman broke many NHW rules the nite of Feb 26th. As a non-NHW, if that is what you want, he stalked and murdered an unarmed minor. How much simpler do you want it?

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Snoopy, individuals carrying a concealed weapon are required to carry the permit with them. My son and daughter do not keep theirs in their holster, but that doesn't mean George didn't. I didn't notice any kind of pocket in the photos taken of the holster, but I wasn't looking. I might have to check on that. What I do know, is if it wasn't on his person at the time of the shooting, GZ would have been cited for a violation. At least he would have been cited if the SPD was following the law and not giving him a pass on the violation. I somehow recall reading in a report he had the permit.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Snoopy, I just looked at a photo of the holster and it does appear that there is a pocket with a piece of paper in it. Apparently, GZ either left his wallet in hike vehicle or was so busy remembering to wear his gun he forgot his wallet at home.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Sempre~~I don't think Z was on his way to Target at all. Thanks for checking out that holster.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    I am also wondering if a nameless person happened to notice Trayvon when he was on his way TO the 7-11 and possibly phoned Z at home??? Pure speculation but it has crossed my mind. This could have caused Z to be lying in wait for a would be prowler. You can bet your patootie we will never know unless someone were to down too much bubbly and talk a lot. Hmmm

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Snoopy, what I was wondering was why was Shellie (according to MO) at her father's house that evening, when according to Papa Z, the couple always went to Target together on Sunday evenings? Did they have a falling out? Was Trayvon a convenient target for displaced anger?

    I actually believe he happened upon Trayvon reentering the neighborhood only sooner than he claims in his call to NE. I think he might have very well have stopped and let Trayvon cross the road in front of him, and observed him head to the covered mail box area. I think he found a place to park where he could observe him and without considering that Trayvon was using hands free technology, mistook his conversing on the phone as strange behavior. At that point his imagination began to run wild with speculation and he arrived at the conclusion that Trayvon was up to no good and he finally had the perfect opportunity to practice all the skills he had learned through the unofficial LE training provided by MO. The NE call was intended to feed his ego by letting someone in LE know that he was about to capture one of those who always gets away. I am of the opinion he was less than candid with the dispatcher asnhe described Trayvon's activities. He needed to make Trayvon appear to be a threat in order to later justify his actions. regardless of the outcome. I don't think it occurred to him at the time that NE calls were recorded.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSempre Invictus

    Sempre~~that all sounds logical to me. Come to think of it, if he and Shellie were on on outs, it would make sense when he asked the neighbor to call his wife and " tell her I just shot someone." He did not say, "oh my God, tell he I just shot a guy who jumped me" or something to that effect. I does seem that Z lacks emotion. Maybe we have another narcissist on our hands. The last one was Casey Anthony. Thank goodness Z does not groom himself in the courtroom. He seems more like a statue than a human sitting there. I would love to see if Dr Lillian Glass can read Z's body language. He just has an empty stare and seldom averts his eyes and seldom blinks. If he is on meds, then they are keeping him stoned.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Sempre~~one other thing I found rather strange. Zimmerman said that he and Shellie did their shopping on Sunday nites so they could do their baking for the following week. Now taking into consideration that Z had a job and Shellie her school to attend the next day, why would they leave the shopping to Sunday nites? They would be lucky to make a big pot of spaghetti by midnight and eat leftovers all week. It just does not make sense.

    November 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    @SnoopySleuth. "(2) O'Mara will not put Zimmerman on the stand. "

    For the immunity hearing, I believe it is required. Dave can correct me if I'm wrong. I've read several case decisions in Florida on immunity hearings, and defendants testified. It's their petition. They are asking the court to find them immune from prosecution. Anyone who brings a petition before the court for a ruling has to defend that petition. No one else can testify as to what the defendant felt and thought regarding great bodily harm or fear of death.

    Now, trial is different. Zimmerman will not be required to testify at trial as a matter of constitutional provisions. The State brought the charges and has to prove its case. However, if immunity is denied and the case goes to trial and Zimmerman still claims self-defense, the jury won't hear anything about what he felt or believed, because no surrogate can testify on his behalf.

    O'Mara and/or West might try using Zimmerman's injuries only as a self-defense claim, but he will only have the EMT's reports regarding his injuries. All others who have thus far talked about his injuries received that info via hearsay from GZ, which the court will not allow.

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterXena

    Dave -- a man who shows and not tells in words, and finds a video that does the same. Bless your heart. That video gave me a better understanding of the area.

    [I responded to your question about Zimmerman having to testify on a separate comment.

    Thanks, Xena, I figured the video would help clear up a lot. I did this sort of thing during the Casey Anthony case, too. I want to show everyone whatever I can. I mean, I live here and most people do not. To me, it's a privilege to do it. What's that old saying? A video is worth a million words? Or something like that.]

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterXena

    Xena~~thanks. I know it would be inane not to put Z on the stand but is O'Mara compelled to put him on for the immunity hearing, Maybe Dave can help us.

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    I don't think there's a law that mandates Zimmerman's testimony at an immunity hearing, so, from a legal standpoint, he does not have to speak to the judge. That's what defense attorneys are hired to do; become the surrogate and argue on the client's behalf. The defense will elicit expert testimony from Sanford police officers, EMTs, doctors and whatever else they can conjure up to show he was forced to shoot. But that doesn't mean it would be an easy win without his taking the stand.

    The judge will want to hear it from Zimmerman. For instance, the police video reenactment taped the following day shows how he managed to pull out his gun and fire, but it's too vague. In this case, no one other than Zimmerman could demonstrate by a preponderance of the evidence that he qualifies for immunity. That's the crux of the motion and without testifying, his odds of winning are next to nothing.

    In my opinion, filing an immunity motion and keeping Zimmerman off the stand is stupid. At the same time, putting him on the stand is risking a lot by opening him up to cross examination. However, it's a necessary part in the state of Florida based on the SYG statute. While it opens up the defense strategy to the State, this case is not so complex. The defendant admits he shot and killed the victim and, at trial, he would argue the same thing anyway.

    If the motion is denied, would Zimmerman have to testify at trial? No, so what's he got to lose by filing the immunity motion? He'll either be set free or go to trial. Without it, he'll just go to trial. And he won't have to explain anything to the jury. That's what his attorneys are for.

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterDave Knechel

    Dave~~thanks for that great explanation. Believe it or not I understood it all. I think O'Mara will conjure up enough evidence to give it a shot without Zimmerman taking the stand. As you say, what can he lose by giving it his best shot. If Z loses the immunity hearing, we may see a plea being copped but then again will Z ever admit he was in the wrong? The sentences for manslaughter or second-degree murder when a firearm is used are almost the same.

    [You're quite welcome, Snoopy. Winning or losing the immunity hearing aside, I will guarantee there will be no plea bargaining. This one is as straight as they come. He is guilty or he is not, and neither side will budge on that.]

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Dave, Thank You for this video. You are a true warrior in children's causes. Your insight and information is invaluable in gaining an understanding of just how severely flawed Zimmerman's story is.

    You told me before to feel free to use your work in what I do, and I'm working now on 2 vids that will show your video with Zimmerman's own words overlayed and interspersed conclusively showing, once again, his story is a LIE.

    Your work and this website will be prominently credited when finished, and Amazon needs to get ready. I'll be doing much of my Christmas shopping from their link at, my friend, Marinade Dave's website.

    Thank You once again for all that you do,


    [My pleasure, Papa, and as you know, you are free to use any of my video footage as needed.

    For sure, I am an advocate of children, and some people ignore the fact that Trayvon was a child in the eyes of the law. He broke no laws that night and the fact remains that from Frank Taaffe's house until his death, he was being stalked and pursued by George Zimmerman. What is it that some people refuse to believe? They make Trayvon out to be a monster; a crazed gang member high on crack and heroin and every other illegal drug in the book. It's simply not true. He has grown from 5'11" to 6'2" according to many. Bigger, stronger and meaner than the one time bouncer! Imagine that. I expect to read soon that he's a 10-foot tall version of Mike Tyson.

    Anyway, thanks for wanting to give me credit, and a big thank you for considering making Amazon purchases through my blog. It costs nothing more to do so, and if the small commission eventually puts a couple of gallons of gas in my car one day, that's great.

    To you, I say thank you for all YOU do. I totally respect your work and thoroughly enjoy your great and inspirational videos.]

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterLLMPapa

    Snoopy where did what you get what you posted about Tray's knuckles? I thought I read there were no bruises on his knuckles and only one small old cut on a finger.

    For the hundredth time, when push comes to shove there was NO reason for ZImmerman to get out of his truck. NONE,especially after being told "we don't need you to do that" by the dispatcher.

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterTommy's Mom

    Tommy's Mom~~this is what I wrote upthread...A blow like that would knock Z on his fanny. BTW, no one liked my idea on swinging the bag which would account for no bruising on T's knuckles.

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Re: Your work, your videos, can the prosecution present them in court to illustrate that GZ took the route he did because he had his mind set to personally "get" Trayvon himself. His actions clearly show he had no intent of allowing the police, who were on their way, to take care of the situation GZ had reported.

    [Could the State (or defense, for that matter) use my video as evidence in court? Well... yeah... I guess so. But would they? I doubt it because they'd want to use someone who's an expert at this sort of thing. There's nothing scientific about my video, although it is authentic and factual.

    You know, in this day and age, anything is possible. Look what happened at the last trial a "certain" blogger attended.

    Sadly, even with the police en route, GZ had his hero button set on high and he never turned it to low. What a sneaky creep.]

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMO


    Just curious.

    Why don't you ever comment on why Zimmerman didn't stay in his truck?

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterTommy's Mom

    I notice there is nothing posted on MOM's blog for the last two weeks+. They must be investigationg all the tips they have received. ROFL ;)

    [I think the last gag order hearing took some wind out of their sails, but when new discovery is released, I think they'll be back.]

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterTommy's Mom

    I think a lot could be said about why Zimmerman decided to tail Trayvon in the first place, let alone exit his vehicle. Zimmerman was such a cop wannabe that he threw common sense out the window in pursuit of heroism. That's where the problem arose, not when he got out of his vehicle and admitted to following Trayvon. Whatever, Zimmerman was within his legal rights to do everything until something went horribly wrong, but just because it was legal did not make it prudent or right. Let's face it, the guy is lacking in common sense, but it's not against the law to be stupid.

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterDave Knechel

    Two weeks ago, George Zimmerman's attorneys complained that prosecutors weren't releasing FBI records and other investigation details, but Thursday prosecutors filed paperwork showing they'd coughed them up.

    The newly-released evidence includes five FBI reports, 10 reports by employees of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and details and notes from the files of FDLE scientists who did DNA and other evidence analysis.

    Prosecutors also disclosed the identities of a dozen new state witnesses, although Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda characterized most as category "b" or "c" witnesses, meaning there are not expected to be prominent at trial.
    One is the physician's assistant who treated Zimmerman. Three others are Zimmerman's neighbors.

    The new information comes two weeks after a hearing in Sanford at which defense attorneys Mark O'Mara and Don West complained that prosecutors were withholding evidence.

    Read more here...

    Prosecutors release FBI records to Zimmerman's attorneys

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    I've been reading to catch up with the comments. Little late with this but I thought GZ did not have his permit with him. I remember wondering at the time if there was a fine for not having it or what the penalty would be. Of course I can't remember where I read/heard about this !!
    And, Snoopy, I agree with your thought on TM swinging the bag with the pop in it. It makes sense that it was what hit GZ's nose.

    [I remember that, too, Newbie, but I didn't know if it was true or not. Of course, being all chummy with the SPD probably meant he could bring the license in whenever he felt like dropping by. Y'all don't worry 'bout it, Cap'n George.]

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterNewbie

    Newbie~~If you click on the link I am providing, look at the gun holster. You will notice what looks like a piece of paper in the side compartment which I believe to be Z's conceal and carry permit. It was supposedly returned to him by Sanford PD but I did not see where they documented it.

    Evidence Photos

    [That piece of white sticking out of the Velcro part of the holster is the manufacturer's tag, but the imprint is worn off. The Velcro is on both sides to accommodate a left, right, and ambidextrous person. The clip has one type of Velcro on it to attach to the holster in order to clip it to his pants. He wore his on the right side of his back thigh. I would wear mine on the left. Both of us could use the same holster this way.]

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Does anyone believe that Zimmerman feared for his life? Even if he had been hit in the nose,with the bag Tray was carrying. I thought he said in an LE taped interview he was punched in the nose. Would he really be in fear of his losing his life?
    Just a question.

    [Personally, I feel Zimmerman fired his gun long before he feared for his life. He had an itchy trigger finger and a sense of empowerment. I also feel it was the gun's recoil that punched him in the nose. The fear he felt came after the fact, when he realized he had to think fast on his feet to keep his sad butt out of prison. That's what I'm sticking with, too.]

    November 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterTommy's Mom

    I noticed Zimmerman does not have a wedding ring on his left hand in the evidence photos. Hmmm

    [Years ago, I had a friend who never wore a wedding band until his fifth anniversary. It was news to me, but he said it wasn't an uncommon thing.]

    November 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

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