A Day of Discovery
Tuesday, September 21, 2010 at 12:58PM While Casey Anthony’s defense team continues to depose forensic experts at Oak Ridge National Laboratory today, the prosecution released additional documents this morning. The lab conducted air tests on Casey’s car and claimed that evidence showed signs of human decomposition.
Before you assume that the stain is the outline of a body, take a look at the ruler. It’s there for a reason. According to Caylee’s autopsy report, specifically the UCF Report of Osteological Analysis, the summary concluded that Caylee stood between 36.061” to 37.82” tall. This places her within the normal range for girls her age, and it proves that the shape in the trunk is not the outline of a human body. That image is much too small, even if extended 6” outside of the spare tire cover. However, there is another analysis and it spans the width of the spare tire cover. This is merely to discount the outline on the right that some would speculate to be Caylee.
In today’s discovery, the State Attorney’s Office released a computer disk containing audio interviews, photos, and videos, one of which was shot by Joy Wray in May and June of 2009. It was taken at the site where Caylee’s bones were discovered in December of 2008.
The audio portion contains interviews with Texas EquuSearch volunteers who helped look for Caylee. One of the searchers, Joe Jordan, told a case investigator that the water was knee-deep in early September, 2008. “The water, the water was just too much.”
He said that he and the others with TES had only searched along Suburban Drive, never venturing into the woods.
Casey’s defense team recently fought for and won the right to interview TES volunteers who searched that area of the woods, but under strict guidelines. Her defense is basing a lot of it’s strategy on whether Caylee’s remains were placed in the woods after Casey went to jail. That way, she couldn’t have been the one.
Among the items were photos of Caylee wearing a shirt eerily similar, if not identical, to one that was found near her bones. Black & white versions of the photos were released last December.
Leonard Padilla and Black Water Divers searched the Econlockhatchee River at Jay Blanchard Park in November of 2008. That was my first foray into the case.
Raw Interview with Tim Miller 12/11/09
Interview with Lisa Hoffman 12/12/09
Interview with Daniel Ibison 12/10/09
Seized Video (part 1) of Joy Wray
Seized Video (part 2) of Joy Wray
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Reader Comments (137)
IIRC, there's various "interpretations" of the image in the trunk that are closer to a body that size that "work" better. It'll be interesting to see if someone is able to "line them all up" for comparison. The ones I've seen had the image with it's "back" to the rear (as shown), with the "head" over on the right and the "legs" sort of tucked up. Of course it'll end up like a Rorschach test, with the defense going with the one that is the most impossible and the prosecution going with one that seems most plausible...
Thanks Dave! There is so much evidence against Casey....
Dave, thanks for the article and for posting the links to the latest released documents. It is so much easier when it is all in one place.
I echo Mary Jo's statement, thanks Dave!
I'm still looking and collecting...
Agree Karen..I have also seen an alternate interpretation of the trunk photos.
I wish someone would tell Joy Wray the difference between butterflies and dragonflies. I'm just sayin'..
Dadgum- Yup, good luck with that!
No, but seriously, I've seen at least 2 different variations of the trunk "image"- others I think I recall seeing were not terribly different from those two. Val at Hinky did quite a bit on it- maybe showed both. No time now for me to look into it, but I do remember that those 2 were quite opposed to each other. If they have actual forensics (body fluids?) involving this it would really strengthen the whole "image" thing; if not winds up "matrixing"- seeing Virgin Mary's face on toast, for instance.
Dave,
you da bomb!!!
Dave,
although, as always, you write a compelling article i interpret the photos different. I think the outline of the body exceeds what was pinned in red. When i see the photos ,it is my opinion, that the head rested just to the right of the center ring, the series of "anomolies" starting at 18" would be consistant with the spinal column. I do believe that Caylee would have been laying down the way you depicted though. (IMO) But that is what i see from the photos.
Or, as I was taught in my many years spent attending state run schools..............
Dave,
You ARE the bomb!!!
The way you have all this information for us lined up in such a neat package is fantastic. You do a great job putting these things together for us.
Thank you again!
You truly are doing a great job with this blog. You are an excellent writer and a fair commentator. From listening to Tim Miller's interview combined with all the other evidence, I think the myth that the area was searched before has been put to rest.
Casey is guilty, should be convicted and either put to death or sentenced to life w/o the possibility of parole. Either way, she should never see the sidewalk again.
Well, after skimming alot of the info released today, I have come to the conclusion that there is little we didn't already know. Which begs the question why the defense was whining about new discovery 2 years late. If I know this stuff, what is their problem? The main difference I saw today was recordings vs. previously released transcripts. Once again I feel sorry for George, sad for Tim Miller and googly eyed at the antics of Miss Joy and very confused by yet another bizarre statement by Mason Cheney. The detectives have the patience of Job. The wheels of justice will slowly grind until next June when Caylee will have the voice of the prosecution to speak for her. Poor little kid.
Karen - The reason why I pointed that out was to explain something that people would be bound to point out; something that couldn't be true. Yes, there are other photos, as well, and released earlier, but these photos from today could have perplexed some people and I wanted to end it right here.
Thanks, Venice. There is a lot of evidence that won't help her defense.
Thank you, Mary Jo and Tob. I haven't had the chance to scrutinize everything yet, but I will have to do that.
Hey, dadgum - Trust me, it wouldn't help. I don't think an entomologist would convince her. Also, the area where she placed the memorial items was not the spot where Caylee's skull was found. In one of my earlier pieces, I showed the police document that explained where it was, and I discussed it with Sgt. John Allen. I pointed it out in at least 2 of my videos, too. 87 feet east of a light pole and 19'8" south and into the woods. The initial investigation provided more information about the winding vines, kudzu, just like at that tree I point to. I will probably go back down there next week to shoot another video. It won't be flooded because it's been a dry summer, but it will be overgrown and eerie.
Thanks, Carole, although there was nothing explosive today. I do like to put everything together so you don't have to go looking all over the place.
Thank you very, very much, Yvette. I can't speak for my writing, but I do try to be fair.
From all of my trips down to Suburban, I can say that, in September 2008, those woods were too flooded to enter, and too thick with vegetation. Aside from normal summer rains, T.S. Fay rolled through in mid-August and dumped another 12" there. Had it not been for nature calling, that body would probably not have been found to this very day, and Casey would have been tried without Caylee, the state's real star witness.
Very compelling statement, Tob, and one I must say I agree with. Law enforcement did its work. The state is doing it now. There will be justice one day, that's for sure.
Thanks Dave this is a coulour version of a previously realeased black an white photo of Caylee wearing the Big Trouble T shirt ,The type that Cindy said Caylee had never possesed,Even though she had seen those photos taken in Ricardos apartment wich Casey said was Zannys,Got a very selective memory has Cindy never mentioned the missing pooh blanket either untill it was found with the remains,But of course this proves nothing as Zanny had a key to Hopespring an free rein to come an go an help herself to hinkel ductape ect?I apreaciate your dedication to make this information easy to acsess in one place,Greetings to all of you commenting,
Yes, ecossie possie, the shirt that didn't exist. From what I've seen and read today, nothing comes to Casey's rescue. I do find it very interesting that the only entity that actually looked for Zanny (or was it Xanny?) was law enforcement. No one else.
Greetings to you, too, and thank you. I try to collect as much as I can.
Well, I watched the two Joy Wray videos. In one word, pathetic.
Tim Miller’s audio interview is very informative. He should make a good witness for the prosecution. In the four days, approx 12 hrs inside the Anthony house, Casey never uttered the name Caylee one time. Her demeanor was jovial and in Tim’s words, “she acted like she was trying out for a cheer leader.”
I wonder if George’s friend from Ohio (his name escapes me) was interviewed by LE. He was the one who had to intercept when George went after Casey one day. Later he took George from the house for a cooling off period. The remark that George’s friend said to Tim speaks volumes. He repeated that George was stressed out and said, “the answer lies in that F***** room.” Of course, in a court of law, that would be classed as hearsay.
Tim also mentioned that, with the exception of about 15 minutes one day, the Anthonys never ever went to the TES command center and participated. After listening to Tim, one gets the impression that George and Cindy knew that Caylee was not alive.
I also noticed that when LE was questioning Tim, the names Laura Buchanan and Joe Jordan came up a few times. The remark about James Hoover saying to search by the school sparked my interest. This brings Dominic Casey back into focus. There is some mystery surrounding Dominic and maybe, one of these days, we will find out just what that is.
Re: The Evidence Video Report
Mortimer Smith, PI out of Illinois and working for the defense , is said to have tried to put words into Joe Jordan’s mouth by saying he searched where the remains were found. Jordan told LE that he did not search there because it was knee deep water. It is also alleged that Laura Buchanan, who also worked for the defense, may have falsified TES records.
Thanks Dave for making this post. I stole some of your links as you put them up. I brought over some of the comments I made after reviewing some of the released info. I will add more later, if that is okay.
I have more listening and reading to do now.
Dave, I agree that LE were the only ones to look for Zanny, even though George said they were keeping the "suspects" under survelliance...Of all theLE interviews and depos that have been posted I can't recall seeing any from Leonard Padilla or that Tracy lady that stayed at the Ant's while KC was out on bond...If you have any info re: the above I'd like to know a site where I could peruse them...Thanks for all the info you provide and the great job you are doing to keep us "no life bloggers" (said tongue in cheek) busy...
Estee~~here are the audio interviews of Tracy McLaughlin. The second one seems quite noisy. Maybe it will work better for you. I will look for Padilla's.
Tracy McLaughlin-Part 1
Tracy McLauglin-Part 2
Estee~~Here is the link to Leonard Padilla's audio interview, Parts 1 thru 5. Just scroll down the page and you will see 5 different boxes. Click on the very top of the box and it will take you to the audios.
Leonard Padilla-Audio Interviews
You know, Snoopy, I just couldn't bring myself to view those videos. That's all I will say for now about them, but there's no doubt Tim Miller was quite surprised with Casey's demeanor. Rah!
I understand the tactics of defense attorneys to put words in someone's mouth, but prosecutors have been known to use the same types of tricks. If the defense forged TES records, someone's in deep trouble, but something tells me there's no proof of it for one simple reason. If so, LE wouldn't sit on this sort of thing. Someone would have been in trouble earlier, when they caught wind of something substantial, not now, after this document dump.
You didn't steal my links! They are there for the taking. Just like all links found everywhere.
Thanks. There's plenty to read and listen to. Creque said he smelled decomp when he searched there 3 months earlier. That is a very revealing piece of info.
Thanks, Snoopy...I knew you or Dave would have this info if it existed...Now my evening is made...Hope you have a pleasant one...
Hi, Estee - I see Snoopy has already set you up with links to Padilla and Tracy. It is my pleasure to bring you info, so thank you for thanking me. We are all a bunch of no life bloggers, I guess, except for Snoopy. She found what you wanted. Thank you, Snoopy.
Dave~~LOL This is my life and it is some life, let me tell you!! I have a feeling that the defense will not go the Laura Buchanan route. Their fingers were caught in the cookie jar. Mort Smith showed Joe Jordan, what looked like a TES search form. It was in a woman's handwriting and had Laura and Joe's name on it. Joe claims it was fake. That document may have since been destroyed and therefore, no evidence for LE to pursue laying any charges. PI's are sneaky as you should very well have learned. Ahem.
New NCIS on at 8. I'll be watching that.
Believe me, Snoopy, I know all about PIs now.
The part I found most interesting was Tim Miller's interview. He didn't really say anything he had already said in that interview published a while back. It was extremely interesting listening to Joe Jordan explain why he taped a priveleged conversation and him saying the defense was trying to fake a TES search document.
The one thing I don't understand though is why they seized Joy Wray's videos and computer? I know it's on her deposition and they have to investigate every aspect of the case but get real. I only read part of her deposition and stopped when they started talking bout knowing President Bush, etc..
I'll give it to the detectives working this case. They are doing a very good very thorough job. They'll deserve a vacation when this one is finished!
And the JAC wants to know if Casey is still indigent or if the new lawyers are going to be receiving compensation for their services. Baez and company picked a good day to interview the body farm huh?
Hi guys!!! I hope everyone's well, and absolutely agree that you laid this out so beautifully, Dave! Snoopy! Everything's so easily accessed! Thank you! And just what do you mean, Dadgum??? Those weren't butterflies Joy stuck to the plant? And weren't you just wondering why she didn't actually plant it, for surely it withered away in the pot!! Oh well, it's the thought that counts.
O, and where's Peggy? Anyway...
Now for the photographs of Caylee in the in the little pink shirts - plural, indicating that the photographs of Caylee in the shirt were taken during two different time periods, though at the same place, it would appear. Has this already been mentioned? Forgive me if it has.
:-)
Tracy's interviews intrigued me, as I recall, for all of her back and forth between actually liking Casey to believing Casey capable of murdering Caylee. I don't know that I'd feel any such fondness toward a parent as suspicious as Casey was.
Hi, Connie - I know from what Sgt. Allen told me about Joy was this. Remember, too, that her computer was seized last year. She had taken it to Best Buy to have (I believe) the hard drive replaced. The tech recognized her from the news and called the police. There were files (images) related to the woods where Caylee was discovered. The store is in Seminole County. When my father was in the hospital last October, she had her children make him a get well card. She came to the hospital to give it to me. At the same time, she showed me images allegedly from the woods. There was more to it, and that's why Sgt. Allen wanted to talk to me. One of the reasons, anyway. Also, she had come to my blog and made comments that interested him. In any event, the problem was that this has been a criminal investigation all along, and when she made claims of searching in those woods and not finding a body, LE had to investigate it. Today, she has zero credibility with OCSO, the state and the defense. I know she's got some serious issues, but she has always been polite to me. I haven't heard from her in months now, at least two, but she's got other problems at the moment. I wish her well, but this should be about the last time we hear anything about her. She will have no say in the outcome of the trial.
Well, well, well, if it's not Feathers! How great to see you! Thank you for complimenting the layout of my new blog. I hope you are here to stay for awhile. Believe me, you've been missed.
I just listened to the Joe Jordan audio. It is the type of interview where you believe him and then doubt him, back to trying to believe him and end up shaking your head in bewilderment.
Joe sent a letter to Yuri Melich on Dec 13th, two days after Caylee’s remains were found. He told Yuri that someone must have put the body there because he searched in that spot. During the audio interview, I just listened to with LE, Joe babbled on and stuttered while recanting that story.
I understand Joe was commenting on a blog ( don’t know which one) while he was out searching hither and yon. Apparently, this is how Laura Buchanan became familar with Joe. Laura, being an ex law officer out of Kentucky, decided to contact Joe via telephone. She didn’t make any headway when she tried to convince Joe that they had searched together for TES. Joe told her that he did not know her and to not call again. That should have been the end of it but nope.
Laura gave Mort Smith Joe’s phone number and that is how Mort ended up asking Jordan if he could interview him. Joe’s lawyer sat in for that interview and, unbeknown to all, except Joe, they were being tape recorded. Without the permission of the party/parties being taped, it is illegal to tape someone. Joe claimed ignorance for not knowing that law. Lucky for him, his lawyer and Mort Smith signed waivers that they would not press charges against Joe. That particular tape is still under seal.
Here is something I found rather interesting. Joe was worried that a child custody battle that he was going thru may be made public, in other words, released in a doc dump. LE asked Joe if he discussed his custody battle with his lawyer while being interviewed by Mort. Joe said he did. Now this sounded pretty lame to me. If Joe was that stupid, you would think his lawyer would have spoke up and told him that they could discuss the custody issue at a later time. When a third party sits in when you are discussing an issue with your lawyer, I do not believe it remains an attorney/client privilege matter. So this makes me wonder just how truthful Joe Jordan is being with LE.
On a lighter note and really sad, when you think about it. Jordan told LE when her first met Joy Wray, she told him that she was a former FBI agent.
I am having a vision of a cabbage patch doll image in the trunk of the car, no duct tape on the face! Picture #2. Could such an image be left if a child was face down, arms out, legs bent back at knees.
Also, if Caylee was decomposing in the back of Casey's car when Tony Lazarro helped with the gas cans, I am not ready to accept that he could not have smelled any odor from a decomposing body having been in a very hot car for several days, when the trunk was opened. Do you see it what I see?
Unfortunately, I'd heard that Joy was an ex-FBI agent before, too. Probably from her and some of the media people joking with me. She did become the brunt of many laughs because of her lack of credibility. Too bad.
I also seem to recall that Joe had been on a blog or forum. Something tells me it was a forum, and it was prior to his involvement in this mess. The public part, anyway. I have the same impression of him as you, and I wonder how credible he will be at trial. One thing is his interview with Mort and how Laura may have twisted things, if that's the case, because it would damage her testimony if the state cross-examines him if he's called as a defense witness. Who knows, the defense may have called him for the purpose of debunking his story, especially since he waffles back and forth.
Actually, I'd be curious to find out how credible his stories are with LE. He's an interesting character, to say the least.
Caylee's body would not have been in the trunk of the car on June 23rd, when Tony and Casey went out to Hopespring and stole the gas. There would have been some leakage from the remains. Casey insisted on pouring the gas into her car that day as told to LE by Tony. With the odor from the gasoline and Tony being away from the car, a decomp odor would have gone unnoticed.
From the shape that I outlined, New Puppy, there's no way that impression could be Caylee. That's the size of a baby, not a toddler. Even if we outstretch the head, torso and legs, it couldn't be more than 20" long, a full 16" shy of Caylee's size.
Your notion that Tony could not have avoided smelling decomp is right on, but at the same time, the car obviously had the smell of dead pizza in it, right? Seriously, he said he didn't smell anything, which seems unbelievable, but maybe he had a sinus problem that day, or if he did get a whiff of something, it sure wouldn't have dawned on him at the time that there was something wrong. He had no idea, and parhaps, he just didn't remember it.
Aww, Dave, thank you! I've missed everyone too! It's just one thing after another around here. Hopefully things will settle down soon. Sarah - multiple, inoperable glioblastomas - is living the duration with her parents, now. She can't be alone for so much as a minute. Her former husband has assumed custody of the kids... which is sad. Real sad, but it is what it is. Now we're all playing catch up, sort of. If I ever catch up to myself I might just run me over! lol
You all have a truly great night. I'm going to read bedtime stories.
MWAH!
Thanks, Feathers. I'm sorry about Sarah. I sure hope she's not in much pain. She is in my thoughts and prayers. Also, I really hope her children will get through this very difficult time. Please tell Sarah she has some real people caring for her out there.
At the top of the page, just below the banner, is an Open Forum page where you can start a thread. If you wish to write something about Sarah, that's exactly what it's there for.
Are you talking to me Snoopy. lol, I wouldn't have missed it. I gotta NOSE for odor. So this is saying Casey killed Caylee, and got rid of her immediately, no, she would have had to have removed Caylee just a short time before she put gas in the car for there to have been any decomp leakage in the car. on the 23rd. Seven days, It is likely leakage happened as Caylee was being removed from the car.
.
New Puppy~~I am glad you have a great NOSE..lol. Yes, I was referring to your comment re the odor. Sometimes I do not address a person directly when I know they probably would rather have Dave respond. I just throw in my two cents and in this case, scents.
I am assuming Caylee body was put in the woods around June 18th or as late as the 20th. When Tony drove Casey back to her car, he may have stayed inside his jeep and Casey got the gas cans out of the back. Tony did say that Casey insisted on pouring the gas in herself. We do not know how close Tony was able to park his vehicle next to Casey's Pontiac. I can see him not noticing any smell and, alot depended on, if there was wind and which direction it was blowing,.
I am not trying to be argumentive, trust me. I am just using a bit of logic to show how an odor could go undetected.
Goodnight.
OK, I guess it was just have a vision, no one else connects the dots. Probably because there is no duct tape in it. Oh, boy!
Dave, you are just amazingly talented! Everything is so well "put together" and easy to find! Thank you for all the time, effort and talent you put into your GREAT blog! Thank you also, for being one of the nicest persons around. Your kindness shows in every article you write. I so appreciate you, my friend!
You know, another reason Toni didn't smell decomp could be because it was so windy.. Especially out on the open highway.
Seeing the trunk photos is heartbreaking. I'm sure the jury will feel the same way. Hope all is well
with you and your family. I know they are so proud of you! Just like everyone here is.
T.
Hi, Dave -
as usual thanks so for your posts and staying on top of this - especially the links....
However - as noted by other bloggers/commenters, there have been others who have really researched the impression in the trunk. I don't know who did the red outline that you have here in your post....but you really also need to see the phenomenal work that JWG did on the "outline" of Caylee in the trunk and that was posted on hinky meter: http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/03/24/indignity/
And yes ...it is like a Roscrhach test ...but if you go with the JWG interpretation on the outline of the impression in the trunk PLUS the smell of decomp PLUS the strand of hair with the death band ... AND who had control of the car from June 16, 2008 through June 27, 2008 ...then reasonable doubt is OUT!!
....And - in yet another ironic moment - when even Cindy ABC (anyone but Casey) Anthony can't overlook the obvious - she even admitted in one of the jail-house interviews: "Why didn't Zanny come back for the car??? it makes no sense." Control of the car is key ....and that was Casey.
YES!!! Thank you Cindy for one other brief moment of truth (along with the 911 tape): It makes no sense ...because the truth is that your evil daughter MURDERED precious little Caylee. It still takes my breath away that this entire sick, dysfunctional family has no problem in making that sweet child so expendable in their efforts to save Casey. Disgusting!
I know you are not trying to be argumentive Snoopy, I was just hoping someone could see the image as I do, what imitates a cabbage patch doll in the picture number 2. I also see that Caylee's body may have been lying just the opposite from what all are indicating. Pressure from the bone structure to me looks more like on the side, head to the right, vertebrae, hip area and space before the feet to the left, which would make sense because the hip bone and bone in the foot would have kept pressure off the leg bones. That area looks like a little less than three feet indicating Caylee could have been in a tall bag, bags. I have never read anything about the size of the laundry bags or trash bags that are supposed to have been used whether to insert the body from the tops or that she may have been wrapped in length. Now, the Joy Wray video mentioned the path to the Anthony home. so many homes away from the spot Caylee was found, that is at least 1350 feet.that Caylee would have had to have been carried if Casey took her through the path. Toooo far! But if that was done there would have been no decomp in the car. Just pizza. :-)
NEW PUPPY.....HECK, HE THOUGHT IT WAS CASEY! She always smelled!