A Day of Discovery
Tuesday, September 21, 2010 at 12:58PM While Casey Anthony’s defense team continues to depose forensic experts at Oak Ridge National Laboratory today, the prosecution released additional documents this morning. The lab conducted air tests on Casey’s car and claimed that evidence showed signs of human decomposition.
Before you assume that the stain is the outline of a body, take a look at the ruler. It’s there for a reason. According to Caylee’s autopsy report, specifically the UCF Report of Osteological Analysis, the summary concluded that Caylee stood between 36.061” to 37.82” tall. This places her within the normal range for girls her age, and it proves that the shape in the trunk is not the outline of a human body. That image is much too small, even if extended 6” outside of the spare tire cover. However, there is another analysis and it spans the width of the spare tire cover. This is merely to discount the outline on the right that some would speculate to be Caylee.
In today’s discovery, the State Attorney’s Office released a computer disk containing audio interviews, photos, and videos, one of which was shot by Joy Wray in May and June of 2009. It was taken at the site where Caylee’s bones were discovered in December of 2008.
The audio portion contains interviews with Texas EquuSearch volunteers who helped look for Caylee. One of the searchers, Joe Jordan, told a case investigator that the water was knee-deep in early September, 2008. “The water, the water was just too much.”
He said that he and the others with TES had only searched along Suburban Drive, never venturing into the woods.
Casey’s defense team recently fought for and won the right to interview TES volunteers who searched that area of the woods, but under strict guidelines. Her defense is basing a lot of it’s strategy on whether Caylee’s remains were placed in the woods after Casey went to jail. That way, she couldn’t have been the one.
Among the items were photos of Caylee wearing a shirt eerily similar, if not identical, to one that was found near her bones. Black & white versions of the photos were released last December.
Leonard Padilla and Black Water Divers searched the Econlockhatchee River at Jay Blanchard Park in November of 2008. That was my first foray into the case.
Raw Interview with Tim Miller 12/11/09
Interview with Lisa Hoffman 12/12/09
Interview with Daniel Ibison 12/10/09
Seized Video (part 1) of Joy Wray
Seized Video (part 2) of Joy Wray
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©David B. Knechel. All Rights Reserved. No portion of this site can be reproduced in it's entirety or in part without expressed written permission by the owner/administrator of this site in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Section 512(c)(3) of the U.S. Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §512(c)(3). The charges against defendants are mere accusations and the subjects are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.
Reader Comments (137)
Sorry Dave for my lateness but i wanted to at least respond to your last response to my post. Perhaps i am just confusing myself as its not so much the "farm" but the chemicals collected from the trunk to determine the presence of a dead body. So, although i dont like it, i can see why the defense would argue its admittance. You gotta admit its a smart move regardless of our distaste for them or the murderer, i mean the alledged accused:~)
You are right Dave, althogh the science can (and probably will be debunked) you can not throw away what the officers and parents smelled that night. There is no smell on this earth worse than human decomp nor anything (really) close to it (i have came close by by mistake-grocery shopping, bag of meat in the trunk, pork chops ended up in the corner for days, hot summer, hot trunk it was bad, bad, bad, and that was pretty close).
Thanks Dave
This may sound dumb but the outline that is in the trunk to me seems like it is just the out line of "leakage" or from decomp and heat combined etc. And that could be smaller than the actual body. So I think that could be the outline of the Caylee in the trunk. The outline produced wouldnt have to be the actual size of the body. I seem to recall that she in a thin trash bag at first or nothing and then in the laudry bag later. There is plenty of evidence like is said that will convict Casey, especially as all mothers know---31 days.
Hi Dave,
many thanks for your explanation found on internet you're awesome!
hello Karen C. I heard about this story about the cat...it is very amazing. By the way if I remember well there is an episode of House M.D about a similar story.
have a nice We you all...
Good morning, all! Sorry I didn't get back yesterday, as I said I would - got all tangled up in other stuff. I would like to address the stain in the trunk of Casey's car, though. Throw my two cents in, for what it's worth, so here goes:
I don't believe Casey "bagged" Caylee in the plastic trash bags until the day she borrowed the shovel. I believe Caylee may have been contained in the laundry bag that may have been immediately placed in the trunk, where Caylee's tiny body lay accosted by the temperatures that could have risen to more than 150 degrees, which would have accelerated the decomposition process.
Casey, not knowing what the heck she was doing may well have thought that the laundry bag would be enough to contain Caylee until she could dispose of her. For all of her computer searches regarding missing children, neck breaking, chloroform and the like, she never bothered to investigate how long it would take a child's body to decompose, nor the process of decomposition.
I don't believe she was prepared for that and when Caylee began leaking through the laundry bag, be it body fluids or adipocere, both of which, in my opinion, left the markings in the trunk, it came time to package her. These markings/forensic evidences would have been concentrated around certain areas of her small being, such as her face, head, buttocks. She would have spilled where ever there was an opening, and the formation of adipocere would have been concentrated in the more fatty areas of her body, such as her cheeks. As I recall, perchance memory serves me correctly, but again it doesn't always, tests came back positive for the presence of adipocere in the trunk of Casey's car. As time allows today I'll double check that unless one of you sleuth's beat me to it! :)
I believe that due the leaking, decomposing, (god, I hate this!) mess Caylee had become, Casey wasn't about to touch her to move her, so borrowed the shovel - again, stupidly - to assist her in moving Caylee into the plastic garbage bags. The shovel was of little use to her, and in attempting to move Caylee decomp material soiled, I would imagine, more than her slacks, as she would have had to get inside the trunk with Caylee in order to move her into the bags. She could not have picked her up with the shovel, nor tried to manipulate her into the garbage bags with the shovel alone. The dead weight of Caylee's body would have made that pretty much impossible. The garbage bags would have shifted out of position with her every attempt to maneuver Caylee inside with the shovel.
Of course, I am not beyond thinking that Caylee wasn't placed inside anything, be it the laundry bag or the garbage bags, initially. My first instinct was that after Casey killed her she just tossed her inside the trunk, meaning to dispose of her somewhere. Blanchard Park or the airport area, perhaps. She drove around aimlessly, I don't recall which day, but might it not be that her initial intention was not to dispose of Caylee so close to the house?
The matter of - bagging her (argh) may not have become an issue at all before she began to bloat and decompose, which would have occurred rather quickly whether Caylee was hidden away in the trunk or the playhouse. That Casey backed the car into the garage where the laundry bags and garbage bags were stored indicates to me that it was inside the garage that day when Casey bagged Caylee. However, had the laundry bag been set up inside Casey's room, where I believe the murder occurred, it would have been a small matter for Casey to have deposited Caylee inside, hidden her small being among the dirty laundry, and headed out the door appearing to tote a bag full of dirty clothes rather than her dead daughter, should anyone have seen her shove the bag in the trunk.
But of course, no one did see her, and Cindy did such a fine job of cleaning up evidence (which is exactly how the jury will process the information on that) that we will probably never know all of the details. Narcissists don't confess, and not even on their death beds. Casey's got it all over Broderick in that Broderick had reason to admit to what she did, as there was evidence enough to prove that she murdered her former husband and his new wife, that wasn't circumstantial. She had no choice. Casey has a choice. No one heard or saw anything, so she has to admit to nothing. One of the best witnesses against her is an inanimate object. The computer, which will attest to her numerous searches for the means through which she might rid herself of her daughter, but the problem with that is the computer was accessible by all members of the family, and we already have Cindy saying she ran the searches for the - what did she call it? Chlorofil? It's troublesome. Cindy alone has destroyed so much evidence, but proving that she did is another matter, entirely.
Don't get me wrong! I am absolutely convinced that Casey is going down! It's enough that she was the last person to have seen her daughter, by her own admission. It's enough that she didn't report her missing for 31 days, and went about her life telling everyone Caylee was alive and well when she was not. It's enough that she carried her dead baby inside the trunk of her car and tried to excuse the smell by saying dead squirrels were the cause of it. It's enough that she abandoned the car and even Simon Burch noted the odor of decomp. I can't wait to hear his testimony! Before George had even opened the trunk, George expressed his concern that his grandchild might be the cause of the odor.
This isn't going to be a cake walk. Mason wouldn't be involved if it were. But it's going to get done. She's going to be convicted, though I seriously doubt that she's going to die. I give her 25-Life. What say you all?
Have a good one! I'm off and about.
WOW!! Feathers that is an awesome post!! The only part i dont agree with is 25-life i think the ultimate price should be paid but that's me.
B-Man! While I can certainly understand the defense's desire to stop the new science, I don't really see that happening. I think the judge will allow it and the defense will have the opportunity to debunk it at trial. A test case has to start somewhere and I see no reason why it couldn't logically begin there. This is such a precedent setting case, so why not?
You know, your comment reminds me of an experience I had many years ago with meat. I'll have to write about it sometime.
Thanks.
Hi, Martha - Yup, you're right, except that no body fluids were detected in the vehicle. Could it be an impression of part of what was contained in the bags? Absolutely, but if nothing discernable can be determined, the impression is nothing, really. Even the FBI couldn't speculate on it and they made it clear in their report, which I can provide if requested. Otherwise, yes, there's lots of evidence.
Hallo, Rita! I don't know about awesome, but it was awesome of you to say. Thank you!
Feathers~~that was quite the write-up on your take of how things went down. I agree with alot of what you wrote. I think Casey was murdered in her car just before midnight on June 15th. She was put in the trunk of the car and then Casey spent the rest of that nite and until 3am talking to Tony on her cell phone. I do not believe George saw Casey and Caylee leave. I think he just manifested those recollections in his mind and had them confused with seeing them leave a week prior to June 16th.
Caylee's body remained in the trunk until...
On June 18th, Casey borrowed the shovel because she planned to bury Caylee in the backyard but found the digging too difficult. She bagged Caylee in the garbage bags and then the laundry bag.
The adipose and fluids that had begun to leak from Caylee prior to being put in the bags, created the outline in the trunk. The shroud of turin is like a fingerprint and can even penetrate concrete. It is where the body laid for those 2 days. George admitted to seeing a large stain in the center of the trunk, it was irregular in shape and the size of a basketball. The bag of garbage was over near the wheel well and the leakage did not come from the garbage.
Casey put the heart sticker on Caylee's mouth before bagging her!
Casey disposed of the remains in the woods around the 19th. She drove to Blanchard and out near the airport but due to so many people around, she returned to Suburban and threw Caylee in among the garbage.
Cindy and George thoroughly cleaned that trunk and the Fabreeze that Cindy sprayed the trunk and interior of the car helped eliminate alot of evidence. Washing the slacks and lord knows what else also wiped away alot of evidence.
In summary: 1) the fight on the evening of June 15th, 2) Casey snatched up Caylee from her bed 3) Caylee was dressed in that little pink top 4) Casey also took the Winnie the Pooh blanket 5) Caylee was crying for her g/mother 6) Caylee was suffocated with the duct tape while she was strapped in her car seat 7) Caylee was later thrown in the trunk and covered with the Winnie the Pooh blanket.
Motive...Casey's build up of revenge against her mother which she had planned to do for months leading up to this. Casey also planned on getting rid of Cindy and George but her plans changed once that big fight occured.
Status hearing on Monday at 1:30....
That's quite a good description, Feathers. You should let me turn it into a separate article. Very, very good.
I agree- great comment, Feathers. I think it very likely that Caylee was first in the canvas bag, in the trunk, and when that was obviously no longer tenable MOTY went and fetched the plastic bags, but not before there was at least some "leakage". Having her in the canvas bag at least would make it easier to deal with later (handles!) and also she probably thought that if the little body was covered up even in such a feeble fashion, she'd be able to explain away whatever should someone accidentally see inside the trunk. Oddly, she had almost touching faith in her own ability to dream up explanations for whatever came her way, sadly for her.
P.S.
The credit for my remembering the adipocere (whether I spelled it correctly or not) goes to ValHall.
Thanks, Val.
Thanks Dave.
Thanks Snoopy.
Vicky, do you have a blog yet? If not, why not and when?
Sure thing, Feathers. By the way, 50 pages of FBI documents were turned over to the defense this week. No inclination of what they contain and nothing about when they will be released.
Feathers~~I second the motion that Vicky should start a blog. She is so knowledgeable about the laws etc.
Feathers, do you think that a fight took place between Casey and Cindy on the night of June 15th? Of course, Cindy is denying it.
I notice that I spelled the coffin wax wrong in my comment upthread. I am not even going to make a stab at it here.
Even though you didn't ask me Snoop I'll throw in my 1 cent ... I definitely think Cindy & Casey had it out on the 15th, I have always had the time line down exactly as you wrote it. Always thought Casey murdered Caylee before she called Tony that night, and I never believed Cindy heard them breathing through the door on the morning of the 16th or that George saw them leave, oh yeah and I never believed the latest, that George made Caylee breakfast the morning of the 16th either.
I do believe that George and Cindy knew if they told the police about the blow up that had occurred before Casey left the house with Caylee, she would've become the main suspect in the child's murder, fortunately it only took them 20 minutes from the time they left the house with her to be clued in.
Steeplechase Girl~~thanks. I am glad someone thinks the same as I do. I cannot see Casey staying in the Anthony house after that big fight. We got a glimpse of her temper in the jail video. Heck, she was so mad she couldn't even spit. God knows what Caylee went thru before the end. I try not to dwell on it because I think with Casey's rage, it had to have been heinous.
Oh, darn! The post previous to my last didn't go through! And since I so want to say what I said - but didn't make sure it went through - here goes, again, though in a much shorter version. :-)
http://www.wesh.com/news/21714207/detail.html
The above link is posted in reference to a news article that mentions the Body Farm and the evidence of adipocere/grave wax found in the trunk of Casey's car.
Thanks for the compliments, but I really don't deserve them. I write but my opinion, and sometimes get lucky enough to make a bit of sense. Other times? HA! Dave, if you can make sense of my drivel, have had it! Thanks to all, just the same, and especially you, B-Man!
Snoopy, you always inspire me to look closer, dig deeper, know more, and it's but one of the many things I so love and appreciate about you!
Oh and yes, I agree with you and Steeplechase Girl. There was a fight.
HUGS
Now to hit post ....
Just a harebrained theory which came about as I was reading Val this morning...Apartment 210 keeps jumping up in my mind...Could it just be that 210 was the time of death???? 2:10 AM on June 16th or quite possibly 2:10 PM on June 16th...KC said she last saw her (alive) at 210...Apt. or time??? Perhaps it was just coincidence, perhaps it was true....SUrely she would have noted the time...Panic time....If that is the case....Didn't someone say that there is truth entertwined within the lies...I've never gone along with George's statements of feeding Caylee and seeing the two of them leave.
This is a test ...Dave's internet and cable are down due to a lightning strike. You will not be able to reach him via email ... It will probably be tomorrow before things are back up and running..
Dave, I didn't read the entire post. But I want to disagree with the part where you drew the red outline over the stain. You said the tape measure proves that is not caylee's body. I disagree because when I look at that stain, the outline I see is not the outline you drew. Your outline done in red is around the "glowing" part of the stain, which is simply or probably luminol glowing on blood or fluid containing blood. The darker non-glowing stain is what looks to me to be the outline of a toddler sized child. I realize this is like trying to decifer the face of Jesus on toast or something to that nature. Of course it's a very subjective thing. But again, the larger, darker, stain is where I see what looks like a toddler curled up on their side. The smaller luminol glowing stain that you outlined in red is some fluids that seeped out of the bag. Remember that she double bagged Caylee in plastic garbage bags before placing her in a canvas laundry bag. So not much, if anything at all, would have or could have leak out. One of Hefty's selling points is that they are so strong they resist tearing and leaking. Just an observation... you have the right to your opinion. But I do not think this proves that it's not Caylee as you said in your post. Granted, I did not read the entire post yet, but I will. And I am hoping you change your mind. Thanks for letting me post.
!!!!! Are Dave and his parents alright, Snoopy? Did the strike take out the cable in the area? I hope they weren't more personally affected and that no damage was done to their home! Lightning is such an awesome force! I'm sure that through any severe storm Dave's parents are especially grateful that he is there.
Dave, I hope all's well with you and your folks.
FYI~~ Dave will not be back online until Tuesday. Do not open any Mail from Marinadedave at Yahoo.com. If you want any particulars, go to my blog and request that I mail you . Dave has my link in the sidebar , top left. Thanks, Snoopysleuth
Feathers..check your mail
Great post Feathers ....Casey cannot receive 25 to life though.Floridia is a state were life means natural life. Even people like Robin Lunceford sentanced to life under the repeat offenders programe.Otherwise refered to as three strikes an your out must spend the rest of there life in jail in the state of Florida.
Hi Snoops Hi everone.....
Hi, ecossie! Dang NY Yankees just scored 2 against my beloved Red Sox. Poor Dave's 'puter, cable, etc. fried by lightning. Kind of a gloomy day all in all. How be you?
Hi Ecossie and Karen, yes it has been quiet today. Once we get Dave back on line and a few docs, we will be back in business. In the meantime, feel free to discuss anything pert to this bazaar case.
Well, I just re-read the majority of the autopsy report again- so one root poking through the plastic bagging was 10cm long- that's about 4 inches long. Hadn't really picked up on that before but the whole report overall does indicate a lengthy period of time for the body being right there...
Woo Woo! Sox "Singin' in the Rain"! Up now, 3-2. In NY yet- hee hee hee.
Estee,
you may want to go through Dave's arcives i believe he addressed this, but i am not sure, he also does a crazy thing with Zenaida's name and a possible way in which it came together. It may be under "scoping out Casey's Haunts" but i dont remember.
Tony said that when he picked Casey up on the day that her car ran out of gas that she was walking so, initially he wasn't anywhere near her car when he picked her up. Then they rode in Tony's vehicle to get the gas cans and, Tony drove Casey back to her car. He told investigators that he was going to put the gas into Casey's car but, she took the cans and put it in herself. I got the impression that Tony never got close enough to Casey's trunk to have picked up on the odor.
As I recall, As I Recall (couldn't resist!) Tony's account made it seem clear that she had indicated subtly she didn't want him near the car...
Wow Snoopy and Feathers! Nice posts on the body outline and the decomp process. I have one theory though and it does fit in with all that. What if Casey had the habit of leaving Caylee to sleep in the trunk of the car while she was with these men? If so, I can see her taking a tired irritable Caylee out with her because of the fight with Cindy but Caylee just wouldn't shut up or go to sleep for her when she needed her to. Casey angry at her mom and not wanting to give the baby the attention she needs, angrily duct tapes her mouth and sticks her in the trunk to "sleep it off". When she finally gets around to checking on her she's dead from suffocation. That would also explain the series of phone calls in a short time. Since she is dead, she leaves her in the trunk trying to think of what to do with the body until it starts to smell... onward to your theories.
Well, that's where the Tape-Over-Nose thing becomes problematical, don't it now? 'Cuz although we had originally heard about Tape-Over-Mouth (possible accidental), the other brings us to Murder One and a trial. IF we did have only Tape-Over-Mouth I think that there would have necessarily been a plea in this case and accepted. She'd have gotten whatever and we'd hear about her next on her release date. As is though we are stuck with the skanky lil twit for who knows how long...
I do not believe Caylee's death was accidental. From all the evidence I have reviewed, it was cold, premeditated murder done in a fit of anger and to revenge her mother.
B-Man~~I think this is the post you are referring to...
Creepy Cryptic Casey-Part 2
yes this is small but it could be she decomposed closer to the bone first
then Casey took her out of the trunk