Mark O'Mara's Speech at the Gun Rights Convention
Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 5:34AM I think I’ll pretty much just let this speak for itself. Bear in mind that the video does go in and out of focus, so you may get aggravated occasionally. Maybe not. The sound is intact, and that’s the main thing.
I have two more speeches that were introductions to this one, by attorneys Eric Friday and Jon Gutmacher, but they are giving me some problems. I know this is the one you want to see the most, though. However, I do feel it’s important to bring you the other ones, and when (and if) I can fix them, I’ll present them here and on YouTube.
I hope this video generates great discourse. I must say that, while sitting in the room with him, he does give a good speech. At least, I think so, but you can see for yourself…
Also posted at the Daily Kos
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Reader Comments (95)
Dave, thanks for taking the time to go to the event and bring us this vid. Hope you don't mind, but I borrowed a 2 second snip for this one of mine. His motion and choice of words just struck me funny, LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsh-HACW84A
[I'm glad I was able to attend, LLMPapa, and always feel free to grab anything off my videos. Anything that will help you in your great work, I'm all for it!]
LLMPapa's Click Friendly Video Link
Thank you, LLMPapa. This has to be one of your best videos, yet. ┌( ಠ‿ಠ)┘
Dave: Thank you so much for doing this. I'm off to listen. : - )
[Absolutely my pleasure, nan11. As a matter of fact, I went to a benefit this morning for a little girl with brain cancer, and I am now back at the conference. Thanks. I hope the video is educational in some way.]
Sweet as a nut Dave thanks for the effort ...Your putting in to this case,,,,
[I'm just glad the conference was in Orlando this year. Next year it will be in Houston. I must say I met some mighty nice people there, but spending a weekend like this definitely drained me. I'm trying to answer comments between naps. Needless to say, I haven't had much sleep lately. Not st all, and it's taking its toll a little.
Thank you, Sir, I appreciate your words.]
Dave, Thank you for providing this video, and thanks for taking time to attend the conference and sharing your experience with us looking forward to your take on information garnered.
I was reading a few articles about the 14th Ammendment Due Process Clause and learned a bit of interesting trivia. Did you know that the 2nd and 5th Ammendments have never been expressly included by the US Supreme Court as protected by the 14thAmmendment? Just thought that was interesting.
Anyway, as I listened to Mark O'Mara's speech, I was struck by the inference that a black eye or bloody nose received during a fight might be reasonable justification for lethal force. Although he states that people have not abused the SYG/Self Defense laws to date, it seems to me that if a situation like the one we are dealing with in the GZ prosecution results in a positive outcome for the defense, that it will be viewed as a go ahead for gun toting lunatics, who have been waiting patiently for a case like this, to use deadly force to shoot first and claim self defense, even if they are the instigator of a conflict. Did anyone there ask questions about lethal force as a means of ending a fight one started to begin with?
[It was a long weekend, but I am very happy I had the chance to go and learn. I probably took at least 100 pictures, too, and spoke to some very interesting characters - all good, and we were given over $200 worth of books and other publications.
I think what you're addressing in the 14th Amendment needs to be examined. The main thing about it is that it falls under the category of judicial review, but that is defined more or less as a doctrine under which legislative and executive actions are subject to review (and possible invalidation) by the judiciary, but not all courts have that authority. The bottom line, though, is that it deals with laws passed directly by an elected legislature - meaning Congress, in this case. The Supreme Court can overturn laws, in other words, but when it comes down to the US Constitution and its amendments, I am positive the court has no authority over it. In particular, the 2nd and 5th Amendments are part of the Bill of Rights, and there's no court in the land that would dare touch them. My guess would be that the 14th Amendment includes gray areas that could be open to interpretion. In other words, in American legal language, judicial review refers mostly to the adjudication of the constitutionality of statutes, not the Constitution itself. If that makes sense.
As for a bloody nose or black eye, O'Mara said so himself; it's open to interpretation, and that means the court will decide. Generally, would injuries like that necessitate deadly force? Yes, if you happen to be George Zimmerman's defense attorney.]
Hmmm. A couple of things hit me while he was talking.
1. I think his saying (paraphrasing because I have a rotten memory) that if you've been punched in the face you have the right to punch back but not pull a gun might come back to bite him.
2. "Fear of great bodily harm" has always bothered me for the obvious reasons it bothers everyone else, but also - and I may be wrong again due to the faulty memory - but didn't the ems guys take his pulse and say it was normal? What happened to him when the fear hit - it didn't raise his pulse? Mine certainly speeds when I get scared, doesn't yours? Also the voice stress test showed no stress - most compare it to a lie detector test, but what about the stress part after being "in fear of great bodily harm"? No stress from a near death situation.
[I think this will go into areas like his pulse, and why it was normal, although I'm sure there are medical specialists that will tell you it's some oddball form of shock and not so rare. Yeah, right.
The bottom line to me means it will all come down to GZ's credibility. Will he be able to convince the court that his injuries were perceived as life-threatening? I just don't see how, given that his story started at the T and that's where the massive pounding took place. If true, how did Trayvon's body get moved 35 feet south? That means George had to have his faculties in order to move that far away. Remember, he took the beating near the T and he said it over and over and over again. That's his "fatal" mistake, IMO.]
Dave~ ~you must have been up bright and early to get this video posted. I didn't expect to see it until later this evening.
Mark is a great speaker, no doubt about it. Sadly he is representing an unpopular client. I commend him for taking on this case and it seems in spite of all the backlash from the media and deception on his client's part, he seems to be in there for the long haul. Zimmerman is fortunate to have O'Mara as his defense attorney and I hope he realizes that.
Let's face it, defense attorneys are not popular in many cases but someone has to do it. Many feel Mark took on this case for the publicity but I disagree. I think he took it on because he will not back down from a big challenge and this case is certainly that.
I certainly agree with O'Mara when he said that many have already found George Zimmerman guilty before knowing all the facts in this case and therefore their conclusion is based on raw emotions rather than weighing all the evidence.
Mark was condemned for going before the media. He had little choice since the media and some blogs had already tried and convicted Zimmerman. One media outlet even went to the extent to edit the 911 non-emerg call that Zimmerman made so it would become racial. O'Mara, in my opinion, had to do damage control before things became more out of hand.
Like Mark, I want to see this played out in a court of law. Let the facts be presented and then a judge can decide when the self-defense evidentiary hearing takes place or a jury if it goes to trial. Is this too much to ask for in a civilized country?
Dave, you know my feelings. Nothing will change my admiration for O'Mara and I will remain steadfast to my own convictions.
It is too bad the focus was tempermental but Mark's message came across loud and clear. Thank you once again for all you do for us!!~ ~ Snoop
[Yes, I'm not long for this night, I'm afraid. I've tried to nap and nodded a few times, but it will be an early one for me, and no early starts tomorrow, other than writing and posting pictures. I did go to Suburban Drive since it's so close to the airport. Imagine that... over 4 years later!
Mark is a very good orator; one of the best, but can he be George's savior? I don't know. George has been his own worst enemy, and I'm afraid that Judge Lester's downfall was that he saw right through him.
You have to remember that, yesterday, Mark was in his element. It was a very friendly and accommodating crowd. This is a lot different from a courtroom or in front of a predominantly African-American group, where his speech may have been dramatically different. Basically, most of the evidence I'm familiar with came straight from George's mouth, but which piece of evidence are we supposed to believe? That's a big problem, but, Mark's an excellent speaker. Will it be enough where it counts? I don't know, but I must admit, he relaxed the welcoming crowd immediately.
I'm glad I could go. Tonight, I will try to sleep, but, overall, it was very worthwhile. Including O'Mara.]
Dave~~this is a decent little write up that weighs both sides... It is more or less a recap... I haven't watched the video yet that is included
Dueling scenarios helped shape Trayvon story in epic media battle
[I saw that last night, believe it or not. I agree, it's a very good piece.]
Merde!
Thanks so much for this, you deserve that nap! Despite the "circular" hand motion, LOLOL! at least for the moment I have a grasp of why he thinks his client has a chance under the law. At least for the moment I grasp it, and will be able to re-listen later when that grasp again becomes unclear.
Seems he received a nice round of applause.
This isn't the time or the place but with little time and no skills, I can't parse what I hear that's burned in my brain and load it on youtube. I reply on words to explain something one final time. You've all heard Zimmerman's voice in many forms so if you cannot follow what I'm saying I understand. We've heard that voice so many times it should be memorized by us all.
We've heard the stilted voice of the bond hearing, "I did not know" etc. On Hannity, on his NEN call.
No matter where we live, put regional accents aside and think only how lazy we've become when we speak English. You'll hear what I mean on every major prime time television show or national newscast, on both sides of the border. Unless we're careful, our everyday enunciation of consanents and vowels has slipped further and further.
For example:
The word is "your" but we slide into "yer".
The sentence is "Give me your keys" but we say "Gimmee yer keys".
The word is "little" and it comes out as "liddle"
Go to Axiom Amnesia and listen, just in a quiet room, to W11's 911 call again. Personally I require no earbuds or special equipment whatsoever. If you do, okay. If you can't bear to hear the screams again, at AA you can FFWD a bit.
At prescisely 1:49 you will hear Zimmerman's voice saying "You liddle f*ck." It is low fast and furious and absolutely unmistakable. That is not the tone of a man in fear of his life, in a panic or anything but what Frank Taffe termed a man with "Fed up issues". While the teen screams frantically for help he knows that bullet's in play and a second later it's fired.
IF only there was, under the law, an opportunity for BDLR to pause that tape, let the three words play and resume the tape, every juror would understand how desparetly that boy was attempting to ward off the gun and retreat.
That, combined with all known evidence to date, is why the client is.guilty.as.sin. Trayvon Martin spent 40 seconds caught on tape TRYING to RETREAT. Zimmerman wouldn'tet him and that's why this member of the public has truly tuned out to "fair" trial worries.
As Captain Jack/Johnny Depp would say, "Savvy??". (Raising a right hand, I swear this won't be mentioned again)
Man, my typing sucks! Fank Taffe indeed, I think maybe I just coined a new one, folks!
Dave I've had a millisecond to read your last comments, TY for your insights
[I fixed the typos that I saw, so don't worry about that.
I think the whole bottom line will just come down to what is shown in the courtroom. All speeches and all rhetoric aside, that's the only thing that matters. At the same time, I think we 'sort of' got a look at O'Mara's skills as an orator and, sometimes, that's what convinces a jury. While Baez made it a point to say good morning to the jury, Ashton scowled. That impacted the jury and it's something we should keep in mind. While Baez sought to emotionally attach himself to the jury, I think O'Mara will attempt to impact them from an intellectual vantage point. Baez was shrewd that way. O'Mara is very smart, but will he be able to attach himself to the jury? I don't think so, but he sure does know how to give great speeches.
Thanks, CoffeeLover.]
Dave ~~when you start snoring, the earth trembles all the way up here in Nova Scotia especially when you are over tired.
You know I will accept the verdict whatever is handed down in this case. The reason being is that a big tall Irishman is at the helm for the defense and he will give it his very best. On the other side, we have two seasoned prosecutors who may or may not tip the scales of justice.
This is one case, regardless of the outcome, there will be no winners.
[Sadly, Snoopy, there are never winners in cases like this. Except for the attorneys. Baez won, and so did Ashton, when you think about it, but Caylee didn't, and neither did Casey, considering that she'll have to forever look over her shoulder.]
Snoopy has a crush on the lawyer, lolol. J/K
On one thing we agree, nothing will bring Trayvon back.
An aside re Dave's response to Coffee Lover....
Mark sure as hell got my attention... I am attached to him. I have an obsession with 'brains', intellectual ones. For goodness sake, why do I keep coming back to Dave...it is not his sweet personality...uh uh... lol
Coffee Lover ~~ some people save salt and pepper shakers... I amass brains... let me see so far, Stan Strickland, Bill Sheaffer, Mark O'Mara, Mark NeJame, and a bald headed guy but his name eludes me at the moment...
Thanks for fixing those typos and I couldn't agree more: The lawyer who couldn't even cite case law and was bored witness whenever the Judge tried to instruct him in it, connected to the jury in a way the far more intellectual lawyers did not. It was sad to watch.
The actual evidence and common sense went right over that connection. The lineup of experts for both sides was so far apart, it wasn't even close.
What will interest me is who will be willing to sign on as defense experts in this case, and what will be their reasons for doing so? I think that's why I have had to disconnect emotionally. Thinking that O'Mara may end up with a good selection of experts that will sign on for reasons we needn't discuss.
Dave et al~~Here is great article referencing events that took place at the gun conference...
Gun rights activists say new laws won't stem killings
Snoopy, you surely do make laugh!
I collect nothing, less to dust. I too, find a brainic sexy, but my disgust for the defendant is too overwhelming. We'd better not go down that road, lol.
Just rambling while I listen to the rain.....
It is difficult to keep people's interest at a high in this Zimmerman case. To be frank, there is very little by way of evidence. I am not sure if there are a few pieces of evidence yet to be passed over to the defense. What we have been privy to thus far has been analyzed to death.
Mark mentioned in his speech that he plans to have the self-defense evidentiary hearing some time in the spring. I am hoping that Judge Nelson will set a date for the trial when they have their next scheduled court hearing towards the end of Oct. We need to get the show on the road before we rehearse this case to death. The average time that elapses between when a person is charged and when they go to trial is three years. What are we going to discuss until then?
In the Anthony case, there was something new erupting almost daily. It was like a long playing soap opera which kept us spellbound. We had George having an affair with River Cruz, Dominic Casey nibbled French fries with Cindy, Cindy hugged every man in site...especially Rob, Padilla's nephew. Then there was Kronk taping up his exes with his 100 mph duct tape and them screaming revenge to PI, Mort Smith who in turn helped Laura Buchanan falsify TES documents while another PI was doing a sting operation on a couple TES searchers.
Low and behold along comes that blogger whose radiant glow blinded the judge who proceeded to call him to the bench and probably told him to powder his noggin but if that wasn't enough, Casey and her attorney were eating licorice thru a jail screen while one woman supposedly hired by the FBI was hanging out of trees photographing evidence for her best buddy G Bush.
It all boils down to ....how can you settle for a McDonalds hamburger after eating crab puffs at the Ritz.
Snoopy,
That's just the problem! There's so much love and laughter in the world, I zoned out long ago on the steady barrage of crime, screaming, hate politics that passes for news. That's why I recorded the Anthony trial--to me the science was going to be interesting and I fell hard for the brains of all who worked so hard for that trial and justice. They were an incredible group.
Thanks to Google and You Tube, much much later I would wonder if male juors thought Casey was sexy, if the females found Baez sexy. I wasn't there, will never know and don't know how any of you did it. OMG, such dedication!
While learning much--after all--they were measuring decomp--and found the levels of chloroform as well. Turned out none of it mattered, guess the jury had zoned out from the beginning. I had the FWD button to use for delays and still felt regrets for the hours of my life used up, considering the verdict.
Hmm. Now here's Dave, Johnny-on-the-spot for another case in Florida I'v heard about long after the mess had begun. Having caught up, I've revised a few thoughts I expressed in the weeks since I found Dave's blog. No matter, as Dave himself has expressed, the opinions we form on the web mean little to the actual verdict.
There's some witnesses we've not heard from, forensics to be released, but I'm going to relax and just read here. If I have an original thought to throw in, you'll hear it, lol.
There will be some surprises, but there won't be any big shift in how each of us already view this.I enjoy reading here and you know I enjoy a few film makers :) There will be matters of laws I cannot keep up with. but with Dave's assistance in these last few weeks I felt lucky I understood O'Mara at all!
Can I say Dave Knechel mised it up with "Big Guns" this weakend.
an did a very special thing to tak time and go to the bennefit for the little girl.
I think you deserv lots of respect for doing that Dave.
[HA! Big guns! Yes, I was right up there with them, but not on stage, of course. And no gun.
As for Caylee, she will forever remain in my heart, and a little reminder now and then won't hurt. Thank you.]
Hi Nan, thanks for the link to LLMPapa. His videos are quite interesting.
I really think Mr O'Mara is a good attorney. I just think he is a hypocrite. It is jmo but to say Mr Zimmerman should be innocent until found guilty in a court of law is the complete opposite of what Mr Zimmerman thought Trayvon should have. He found Trayvon guilty and set his punishment at death. Kind of ironic he wants the exact opposite for his client.
I find it difficult to treat Mr Zimmerman differently than he treated Trayvon. He does not get to tell his side. Trayvon has been accused of hitting, pounding, smothering and looking into houses. Whatever happened to treat people the way you want to be treated? Does that not count? Does someone's presumed innocents trump how we treat one another? I guess my point is if Mr Zimmerman had treated Trayvon the way he wants us to treat him NOW would we even be discussing this case?
Coffee Lover I can not listen to those calls anymore. The screams make me sad. I will say the first time I listened to them in one of them I thought it sounded like someone screamed I'm begging you. Don't know if that is what is actually said but that is what I think I hear. Had to be Trayvon because Mr Zimmerman has said he hollered help. Somehow I am sure if the tapes could be cleaned up and we did hear what we think Mr Zimmerman would swear Trayvon hollered what you heard and the I'm begging would be Mr Zimmerman begging Trayvon. He seems good at stealing a dying boys words.
Dave thank you for spending your weekend on more information for us. I really wish you could have shared the brownies in the pictures. You probably had a good time but I think I would have been bored. Did you practice shooting at any of the booths they had set up? Did you learn anything about the specific gun that we have not heard or discussed yet? Did people discuss the Zimmerman case? I have more questions but maybe I should wait so I do not overload you and find a blank screen when I come back. :) Oh there is no hurry in replying so if you sleep in it is okay. I have to go to the Library and the Math Lab in the morning.
Wow Michele I havnt seen anything about the goleden rule for a long time. Seems like a good thin g to put in blog headers and maybe in applecations of confessions. Like think befor you or we speak. Thanks for bringin it up an reminds us in its importance.
Michelle, Eyeball,
Good points but we must remember that narcistic sociopaths have no empathy. It took time but Zimmerman learned to control some impulses to the point where he was managing to hold a job and his boss never saw his 'other face'. Joe Oliver didn't see it.
He didn't fool Serino and Singleton, though. They were on to him but got no support, there were a number of factors that played a part in that. If their recommendation had received support, we'd never have heard the name Zimmerman. It would have proceeded locally. This situation became more complex--but some Prosecutors just want slam dunks. Other times, no one is policing the police, cuz of the buddy system. Zimmerman had buddies.
We have those situations, too. Public outcry results and the RCMP take over. Similar to FDLE stepping in in this case. After which Ms Corey was appointed, etc
The RCMP is far from perfect, too. If they don't move fast enough, you bet public pressure will ensure the Government steps in and appoints a panel for a full review. The names are different but the process is the same. The public will only tolerate so much before before the process begins.
Sometimes, the population just smells hinky and the pressure doesn't go away. The process can take a very long time indeed.
P.S. Dave--when time, anytime, I'd been interested to know how it felt to go by Suburban Drive, what struck you, if anything was noticably different.
A few years after the Simpson trial we were in L.A. staying with friends. They took us everywhere we wanted to go. One day I requested a drive by, through Brentwood and past Nicole Brown's old condo. They flaty refused. I had to wait till Google Earth was available! Bummer.
[I never sensed Caylee's presence when I visited those woods, so it was just a visit. Of course, it was more than that because of what took place there, but I also had to look at it like I was reporting a story. I had to separate my heart from my mind.]
In my post above I mentioned the EMS taking Zimmerman's pulse and it being normal, then him passing the stress test because in the video O'Mara answered a question more than once. It went along the lines of "what if I'm not afraid for my life and I shoot anyway?"... it was asked more than once in a couple of different ways. O'mara hemmed and hawed on the first time it was asked, then on the second he said "no, it's not SYG, or self defense" (or along those lines). It happened right at the end of the video. It's bothered me all along that his pulse was normal... IF he was afraid for his life, his "fight or flight" response would have kicked in.
According to WebMD the definition of the "fight or flight response" is this:
Anger signals your body to prepare for a fight. This reaction is commonly classified as "fight or flight." When you get angry, adrenaline and other hormones are released into the bloodstream. Then your blood pressure goes up, your heart beats faster, and you breathe faster.
According to just about everyone Zimmerman kept his cool. Was it his meds I wonder or his sense he just averted another burglary, or something else in him that just came out? I feel that if the judge lets him off on SYG (I think that's improbable), or the jury finds him not guilty, he'll do the same thing again. Because to HIM, it was justifiable.
[Perhaps George was a cucumber in a previous life, as in "calm as..."]
Connie: The EMT's also took a GCS (Glasgow Coma Scale) test of Zimmerman that night--right there at the crime scene before they took him to the SPD. His score was '15'; which is the best possible score--indicating no head trauma; no concussion; and, I dare say no bleeding from his ears.
The EMT also noted Zimmerman was not complaining of neck or back pain.
That is kind of interesting, isn't it? This is just a personal opinion; but, I new a kid (teenager) that was on some very serious meds--and his blood pressure would still get very elevated. Particularly when he was scared.
I'm going to add the following because I think it might be the 'questions' you are referring to in the top portion of your comment.
I found O'Mara's response very interesting, if not very telling.
Quote from O'Mara's speech:
(At about 22:33) [Question is unintelligible.]
Right. Okay. Right. Okay. I think what he is asking, so that everyone knows—is somebody shoots at him; he goes for his gun; they get in a car and start driving away. Can you follow him, and shoot him? {Laughter} Is that what you are asking?
[Unintelligible.]
Right. Okay. Okay. So, they shoot at you. You have done this before. You have no fear in your heart because you have just gotten shot at; and you then decide—I have no fear. {Sporadic laughter.} [I mean, I am not making fun of the facts scenario.] I have no fear. Can I still take my gun out and shoot?
I don’t want to be a judge in the case, but if it was a law school exam, I would say that if you don’t have a reasonable fear of great bodily injury in the future—not that he shot at you in the past—but, you would not...
[Unintelligible.]
But, he is continuing to shoot. And you are still not in fear?
{Laughter.} [Unintelligible.]
I don’t think you get protection—I really don’t know the statute is going to give you protection if you walk in front of the judge and say I shot him, but I had no fear of great bodily injury. I was just figuring he was shooting at me, I was going to see if I was a better shot. I’m not sure you are going to get protection of the statute, because the statute {laughter} does say that in order to get protection of the statute—to be immune—then you have to be reasonably in fear of great bodily injury.
So literally, you know, and here is the other example. You know, if you are in that scenario where you can retreat. If you can retreat behind a bullet proof wall—you know. Should you, probably so. But, once you retreat behind that bullet proof wall, can you then still shoot? Obviously not, because the fear is gone.
But, no. I’m just saying, if at some point you don’t have fear, don’t use the statute.
[Question is unintelligible.]
I don’t think so, but it would be an interesting case to try. Any other questions?
Okay.
{Applause.}
Connie I am replying and running so I will leave a link. When my Mom took adderall her heart rate went up a lot. Here is what I found and where, just would like you to pay close attention to the wording. It has the same phrase you used. :)
When we are stressed or under threat, the central nervous system prepares us for physical action by creating particular physiological changes. Amphetamines prompt the brain to initiate this 'fight or flight' response. These changes include:
The release of adrenalin and other stress hormones
Increased heart rate and blood pressure
Redirected blood flow into the muscles and away from the gut
In small doses amphetamines can banish tiredness and make the user feel alert and refreshed. However, the burst of energy comes at a price. A "speed crash" always follows the high and may leave the person feeling nauseous, irritable, depressed and extremely exhausted.
http://adderall.net/
There is still more to read just did not want to take up to much space.
Michelle's now 'click friendly' link
Connie sorry meant to add this but I am rushing... Oh boy it is going to be a fun day.
High blood pressure
Rapid pulse rate
Tolerance (constant need to raise the dose)
Feelings of suspicion and paranoia
Visual hallucinations (seeing things that are not there)
Depression
Cocaine craving
Dermatoses (infected or diseased skin)
Urinary tract infection
Infection or viral infection
Elevated ALT enzyme levels in the blood (signaling liver damage)
Michelle: Did you notice that that was LLMPapa, himself, who dropped in and added the link to his latest video for us! (I just made the link click friendly.) :-)
Here are a couple of others that he made fairly recently.
Who Did He Call? | Published on Sep. 29, 2012 by LLMPapa
George’s Shoes | Published on Sep. 29, 2012 by LLMPapa
You know, I kind of get stuck on your point, too. I won't deny that it is a struggle for me to look favorably on what 'justice' the courts should allow Zimmerman.
The only justice I truly care about is justice for Trayvon.
And, yes, Zimmerman not only willfully acted to end Trayvon's life, imo--he also stole Trayvon's final pleas for help. Despicable!!
I can hear the words you hear, too. Hopefully, someday, so will a jury.
J4T
(This is for later, when you have more time.)
Thank you Nan and Michelle for your replies. So Adderall is an amphetamine.. that explains some to me but not all. Only the jury will tell once they get Zimmerman's medical records entered into evidence I guess. I am only a little familiar with amphetamines due to having lived through the 70's. I still don't think he could have gotten that rush of adrenaline like the page Michelle linked to said, and then calmed down so quickly when the police and ems were right there almost as soon as the event happened. I think the meds will play into this a lot.
I envy you your ability to not only find links but to transcribe them so well Nan. Thank you. The part where he describes the statute is telling because it says to me at least that he's going to go with what was in George Zimmerman's mind at the time he was on the ground, not what might be in your mind or mine at the same moment if we were there. That's where all those medications come in. If he was off his meds, if they needed to be adjusted, etc. it would affect his thoughts and feelings when he was on that ground. I'm wondering if those same meds could have masked his "fight or flight" bodily responses. He was on more than one. Anytime you go to be seen or are seen or have any contact with a medical person one of the first things they do is take your pulse. His should have been elevated that soon after the episode, and especially if he was on an amphetamine-like drug I would think. Oh well. I guess I'll find out when it comes to trial or his medical records from that night are released. Have they been and I just haven't seen them? The ones I've seen are from the Dr's office the next day, not the EMS documents. They would document something seemingly minor like pulse and respiration, but not necessarily make it known what it was when they also ran other tests. I have to admit I haven't been going over all the evidence when it's released and have missed quite a bit.
Michelle: Thank you for that awesome link about Adderall.
Zimmerman apparently takes 40 mg a day: 20mg in the morning; and 20mg in the afternoon.
I would really like to know how long he was taking that particular drug, and if he was officially diagnosed with ADHD--because he may have been just using it to lose weight. imo
Interesting possible problems to watch for when one is on this drug:
From your link:
Quote:
ADDERALL XR is a stimulant medicine. The following have been reported with use of stimulant medicines [AMPHETAMINES].
2. Mental (Psychiatric) problems:
All Patients
• new or worse behavior and thought problems
• new or worse bipolar illness
• new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility
Obviously, I am hoping his meds play into this. But, I'm hoping they will be used as only one factor that will point towards his 'deranged' mind.
Which there is no doubt about, imo.
Connie: This is the link for the EMS report that I was referring to: Page 182
I'm sure there is more, but I don't think we are going to be allowed to see much, if any. Before they gave Lester the boot, they had agreed that all the rest of Zimmerman's medical records would be reviewed 'in camera' in the judge's chamber. iirc
Absolutely, O'Mara plans to go with what was in Zimmerman's mind at the time Trayvon supposedly had him pinned to the ground. (I believe this to ba a fabrication on Zimmerman's part.)
That is why O'Mara has moved it to a self-defense immunity hearing--not a typical SYG. Different ends of the spectrum, apparently--according to O'Mara.
Because, in order for SYG immunity to apply--you cannot be the aggressor. Obviously Zimmerman was, and O'Mara realizes this. imo
Dave: I was reading over at the Daily Kos that someone was hoping for a transcript of O'Mara's speech.
I actually have it transcribed; but it is eight pages, at font size 11. It is singled spaced, but double spaced between each paragraph.
If you are interested, just let me know.
This is a change of topic, but I'll stick it in here anyway. I came across the following YouTube video this morning while I was Googling for something else.
It gives a very good visual of the different 'levels' of damage done on impact by a hollow point bullet compared to a round nose bullet.
YouTube VIDEO | Round point Vs hollow point bullets
Right about now I am thinking there is no prison cell small enough, cold enough; or dank enough to house Mr. Zimmerman. : - (
[If you want to send me the transcript, nan11, I will definitely post it on Daily Kos!!! Yes, absolutely, I am interested, and thank you for offering.]
Michelle: This is another priceless video by LLMPapa. I don't know how he spots these things. I love him for it, though.
....Whatever....| YouTube VIDEO | Published on Oct 1, 2012 by LLMPapa
Following is a transcript from Dave's video--starting a little further back than Mr. LLMPapa. Just so you can put it into context:
(The specific text from LLMPapa's video is quoted in bold.)
Quote:
A couple of things that I hadn’t thought about it—but I really liked John Gutmacher's idea that the statute should be amended to include not only what it says now. What it says now is: ‘I am the defendant, and somebody sues me; and I now have to defend myself in a civil suit; and I have to go hire someone like me to defend me—then I can get my attorney’s fees back and the court costs on that civil side.’
Well, I’m not sure why it doesn’t apply on the criminal side as well. I’m just saying some of the systemic reasons: I don’t get convicted beyond a reasonable doubt; doesn’t mean I don’t do something wrong; or, whatever. But, what I like is the idea that if a citizen is put to task of proving that what they did right, was in fact right—then they should get compensated for having to prove it.
Why not? I mean you are going to come to me and say spend thousands of dollars on an attorney to prove this up—well, take the risk if you are going to sue me. Or if you are going to prosecute me. So, I sort of like John’s idea, and I wish it was in place on this case.
{Laughter.} It is not, but whatever.
It is interesting, too, that Mr. O'Mara mentioned civil suits. I'm hoping that in this revised 'self-defense immunity hearing' that Tracy and Sybrina will have the option of civil suits, if a judge decides to let Zimmerman walk.
It's something, and if I were them; I would be willing to run with whatever options I had. jmo
Yep, Nan at the very bottom of all that info you sent me is the EMS report. The incident happened 19:17, 19:27:00 EMS ARRIVES, ASSESSMENT: 19 :41 and everything on him with the exception of the injuries are normal. Breathing, pulse, etc are normal. 20 minutes after a fight and shooting someone and his pulse, breathing, etc isn't even elevated. Must be the meds. Thanks again Nan.
Connie: You are most welcome! : - )
I knew you could do the reading of it more justice then I. I have made notes from your comment--so, it is much appreciated.
Dave: I know you had a very busy weekend; so I was wondering if you had seen this article from the Sentinel:
Orlando Sentinel | George Zimmerman’s lawyer: Plight of young black men isn’t the issue
By Hal Boedeker, Staff writer | Sept 29, 2012
The following came out today from the Business Insider. As it refers to the article linked above, I thought it might be of some interest.
Business Insider | Lawyer: George Zimmerman Can’t Be A Racist Because His Grandfather Was Black
By Abby Rogers | Oct. 1, 2012
I find the Sentintel's support of Zimmerman is shameful, and I have all but given up reading it. I did however, read the article first linked.
It's all defense lawyer spin, but it is interesting.
[I did read the Sentinel article, but I was not aware of the Business Insider one. Thanks, nan.]
Nan LLMPapa's music is very funny. These boots? LOL, Haha the way back music is fun to listen to. The Whatever video ends sad. :( Oh I did notice he left the link but you make them work.
The EMS report is very strange. There is no way I could run/skip, get into fight, have my head bashed into a sidewalk be smothered and shoot someone while screaming bloody murder and be completely fine in 20 minutes. My knees would be knocking, more than likely would get sick on myself plus I would need a paper-bag to breathe into. I am such a girl - men are tough.
This is why I don't buy George Zimmerman fearing great bodily injury while he was on the ground. I think he was angry with a capital A. This punk wasn't going to get away with this, so he pulled the gun. (that's if he didn't already have his gun drawn which to me is a more likely scenario). You can be coldly angry and your pulse doesn't rise, but I haven't heard of many people who were in fear of their lives recover so well in 20+ minutes. Especially after all that running and tussling. I think he was hit once or shoved aside hard enough to land on his nose on the pavement, then it was him up and running and going after Trayvon . The ear witnesses recount over and over a moving argument, so he wasn't leaving the kid alone. He was the agressor, he was angry, that's why he recovered so quickly. So O'Mara's focussing on that period of time when GZ was on the ground being "pummelled over and over" doesn't hold water medically.
Michelle: Did you know "These Boots Were Made for Walking" was a big hit, way back when? It was originally sung by Nancy Sinatra--Frank Sinatra's daughter.
For some reason, I just can't quite remember the year of that hit.
; - )
Yep, I should have warned you about the sad ending--but I think that was LLMPapa's point. There is Mr. O'Mara up there as big as life talking about the money, money, money. The stuff that makes his world go 'round.
'Whatever,' he says. He is a sport--he'll worry about his fortune another day.
But for Trayvon Martin there will never be another day.
Anyway, I am truly sorry that it made you sad. All my comments are just turning into rants today.
I guess, it is just a rainy Monday; and I don't know what to do with myself.
Here is an old one that might make you smile. It kind of worked for me!
Monday, Monday by The Mamas and The Papas
Oh my gosh Nan their outfits are hysterical. Papas striped pants wow. I liked the tune though. It's raining here too! I have heard of Frank Sinatra, did not know he had a daughter though. My Mom told me her Grandma loved him and they would watch him on television. That is back when a sofa was called a Davenport?! LOL My Mom is old!
Connie Now I see what you are saying. I'm not sure I could calm down in 20 minutes- if I were mad enough to shoot and kill someone, but I have no gun training. Maybe Mr Zimmerman only sees strangers as criminals so he has no feelings toward them one way or the other. It is hard trying to figure out what he thinks.
Michelle: lol I was sure the outfits wouldn't get by you.
Michelle & Connie: I might be wrong about this, but what bothers me about Zimmerman's stats being so 'normal' is the fact that he just shot someone.
(And please don't anyone suggest that he did not know the teenager he just shot had died.)
It is simply not God's plan for us to murder. In our souls, we all grasp this. We know it is wrong.
Many experienced men and women, who are trained to shoot to kill due to their occupations have problems coping with this. It does not come natural, (to most people.)
The fact that everything was 'normal', says to me that something is way, way off with this guy.
Even hours later, the calmness of his voice in the interviews. The steadyness of his hands in the pictures, his focus--everything about his response that night is 'off' to me.
Trayvon was right. This guy is creepy. imo
That interview that O'Mara gave to Mr. Boedeker of the Sentinel has captured the attention of HLN.
It bugs me to hear O'Mara compare this case to Anthony's. It seems he will stop at nothing to reach, and taint, the minds of every possible juror.
And I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but it is only the defense (and members of Zimmerman's family), that keep bringing the race element to the forefront--all the while slickly blaming Trayvon's side.
Anyway, here is the link. It has a video, but the 'puter is not letting me watch it. (I think I wore it out on YouTube.)
So, I don't know what Jean Casarez has to say; but, something tells me that that might be a good thing.
HLN | Is Zimmerman the new Casey Anthony?
Nan He had to know Trayvon died. He had been screaming and more than likely struggling before the shot. After that face down and no movement imo is not a good sign. We do not have guns in the house but sometimes my pranks do not go well and I feel horrible! I am positive if I shot someone dead or shot someone and wounded them I would freak out!
Sorry it is taking me forever to get back with you. My Mom is always telling me I can do this or that and I fall for it every time! My English and Calculus class are accelerated. August -October10th. Now I have a 2000 word essay to write, a final to study for and 2 other classes. WHY do I fall for this? She is going to make my brain explode! I will be back tomorrow I really do not like to get anything lower than a B, it makes me feel like a failure when I do. Please do not stop leaving me links. It gives me a chance to see something other than m+(a-t)+h=s(uc)-ks! haha
Dave~~this alert came in tonight and may be of interest.
What the Trayvon Martin Case Can Teach Associations:
[That's a very informative post, Snoopy. Thank you for providing it. Quite educational.]
Nan,
Thanks for the links. I got through them.. Guess what? I didn't know there'd been a 1st interviiew with Hannity.
Missed all the hoopla, rally's, everything. So had no preconceived notions, simply began with Zimmerman's prior statements--after seeing a late clip somewhere about the charges being filed.
Then I had time to watch the 1st bond hearing. I'd guess Stulzman has some ire re that coverage which is why she never fails to mention "burglary tool and jewelry'. That leak was to her, so whatever.
Now I'll have to look and see if YouTube has that 1st interview.
At least it's agreed the 2nd was a mistake.
The only similarity I see is both cases are Florida and both defendant's lie and lie and lie. He's going advocate for his client through the media as much as possible so no sense being irritated.
I'm not looking at what Robert Jr. has to say, either.
Dave~~this is another alert that just came in re a copyright issue. It is definitely worth a read.
An iconic photograph of a young Trayvon Martin in his Bulldogs football uniform, staring stone-faced into the camera, has been published in print and online around the world.
The Optimist Club team photographer, Lucricia Woodside of North Miami, owns the copyright to the picture and never authorized its use. Now she is a member of a growing number of entrepreneurs, artists and even some opportunists who have found ways to cash in on a new cottage industry.
and...
Woodside’s attorney sent letters earlier this month to news organizations and bloggers advising that after the teen’s death, her company, Photos “R” Us, registered the photo’s copyright, and anyone who published it owes her license fees. She seeks $500 from those who published the picture before she registered the copyright and $750 for those who ran it afterward. The lawyer identified at least 300 unauthorized uses of the photo, which was clearly marked as belonging to Photos “R” U
Read the entire article here...
Businesses cash in on Trayvon Inc.
@SnoopySleuth
“Mark is a great speaker, no doubt about it” (…). “(…). I certainly agree with O'Mara when he said that many have already found George Zimmerman guilty before knowing all the facts in this case and therefore their conclusion is based on raw emotions rather than weighing all the evidence” (…). “(…). Mark was condemned for going before the media. He had little choice since the media and some blogs had already tried and convicted Zimmerman. One media outlet even went to the extent to edit the 911 non-emerg call that Zimmerman made so it would become racial (…).” “(…) To be frank, there is very little by way of evidence. I am not sure if there are a few pieces of evidence yet to be passed over to the defense. What we have been privy to thus far has been analyzed to death. (…)”. “(…). Dave, you know my feelings. Nothing will change my admiration for O'Mara and I will remain steadfast to my own convictions (…)”. Mark sure as hell got my attention... I am attached to him. I have an obsession with 'brains', intellectual ones (…)”.
Indeed, Snoopy, you are IN LOVE with "Mark" (a happily married man). Need we take you anymore serious here? I guess when one has a crush on someone else, she always see the best orator, the best lawyer, King Solomon, Samson, the victim (when challenged by others), etc. in him – even if the lawyer in question delivered a speech devoid of any high minded intellectual/academic discussions of any legal themes, gestures with his hands like a lady and appears at times sloppy in his body language. Indeed, love is blind.
Michelle: I like your very good common sense reasoning as to whom the screams belonged and why Zimmerman would have known Trayvon was no longer with us.
I would also suggest Zimmerman knew he had his gun loaded with 9mm hollow point bullets, and understood only too well their power. If you haven't watched that short video I posted (just above), on hollow point vs. round point bullets--I think you might find it interesting.
They only use two plastic water jugs for their demonstration. It makes a jaw dropping point, but is very aesthetic.
Please, no worries about feeling pressured to respond quickly. I hope you get everything you need to get done first, and then drop in to see us. : - )
Also, sometimes I'm awhile responding. I'm back and forth, but I usually check in at least a couple of times a day. Occasionally, though, I could miss the odd day.
Your grades sound wonderful, and it shows how much you care and how much effort you put into your work. (Even if your mom cracks her whip, every now and then. That's what mom's are for.)
Looks like our sun is going to shine today, so I'm happy.
Coffee Lover: I fear I may have inadvertently sent you on a wild goose chase. : - )
I do not believe there was a first interview. The best anyone can recollect is that there was a phone call exchanged between the two (un-aired, whether taped or not), resulting with Hannity appealing to the 'masses' on Zimmerman's behalf and asking for the 'masses' to send their money to Zimmerman's newly established defense fund. (Newly established at the time.)
Interesting that O'Mara would choose to make it sound as if there was an actual interview, no?
LOL But apparently that brief message on Hannity's show worked! The money poured in. Not so much the 'second' time, though. In fact, I don't think Hannity even mentioned 'fundraising' when he did the second (or more like the first) interview.
It is interesting to consider where all the money came from though. Early on--in the jail house phone calls, iirc--there was talk of Hannity paying for Zimmerman's defense if he would use Baez as his lawyer. Don't quote me on that, but I think that is close.
As far as O'Mara, personally, comparing the two cases--I think he is playing with the minds of future jurors. Imo, he wants to send a message that Zimmerman will walk, just like the murderess.
Needless to say, that does not sit well with me. Just because justice was allowed to slip through the cracks in one case, does not mean it needs to happen in another. moo
Thanks all around for some clarifications.
Interview = phone interview=now I recall the Baez rumours. Mind is growing fuzzy = not remembering televison I don't watch.
Copywrite. Now it's clear who is sueing whom. Thanks. People should know by now not to swipe pics and entire articles. = lawsuits. This is not a gray area. Fair use=the laws are clear and all who use pics etc. should darn well now it by now.
Example: Dave puts up original photographs up for all who are interested to view. He does not put his name across them (and kvetch etc.) However all who blog know perfectly well an original article written by any Blogger on any topic from anywhere should be LINKED.
As to the cottage industry: We can have our thoughts but the law is clear. It's that simple.
About TM dead at the scene. Of course he knew, the teacher knew although the dispatcher tried to comfort her. But since Zimmerman was in a police car and (can't recall precise time just now) he can probably skirt this one sentence. Meaning there's a time of an official pronouncement of death.
We're disgusted cuz of what we know. Total disregard/lack of emotion by the shooter.
The oilness.slickness of Baez--plenty felt it, expressed it. Obviously the jury didn't agree.
Married? How silly. Politicians, actors, lawyer, it matters not. We can be attracted to a brain and ignore looks. We can be attracted to a face of an actor and ignore the fact they're an idiot in real life. Sports figures, etc. It doesn't make us wackos nor should we be condemned for it. It doesn't mean if we express a comment, a friend won't reply with "I can't stand that man/woman." etc.
How will the jury view Ms, Corey, BDLR, O'Mara, et al? It should never, ever matter, yet it does.