Will it be that Appealing?
Sunday, August 5, 2012 at 8:59PM On August 1, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr. of the 18th Circuit Court issued his ORDER DISMISSING DEFENDANT’S VERIFIED MOTION TO DISQUALIFY TRIAL JUDGE, citing the defense motion requesting his recusal as legally insufficient. That was no surprise to me, but it was to George Zimmerman. His attorney, Mark O’Mara, quickly told WKMG’s Tony Pipitone that, “We presented the motion. I think the motion was sufficient on its face. He made his decision. We’re going to review it and make a determination about whether or not to appeal it or accept it.”
I’m not surprised by O’Mara’s reaction, either, but what does it entail now? I mean, where can Zimmerman’s defense go from here? They can appeal it. Or should I say may? They may certainly appeal but it’s not all that simple, as O’Mara made clear in his second statement to Pipitone about what could happen next. The case, he said, “stays in limbo, unfortunately, for a while. We will be seeking a stay of all other matters pending until the appellate court decides, if we decide to appeal.”
The key word in the final sentence is seeking, as in “seeking a stay.” What that means is that it’s not attached to an appeal. It’s a separate request. While the appeal goes to the Florida Fifth District Court of Appeal, a stay on all other matters, quite literally, stays with the circuit court.
Here’s the first thing I thought of after learning of the judge’s decision and O’Mara’s reaction. What happens to Zimmerman’s GPS ankle monitor? What about the court order restricting him to Seminole County? I know he’s been complaining about it, and that his defense is prepared to file a motion to lift the restriction. If he files an appeal, doesn’t it put everything on hold? Well, no, but that doesn’t mean he and his team don’t have a lot of other complex things to think about.
There’s the issue of money, for instance. Filing appeals isn’t free. Just consider the time it takes to file paperwork at $400 per hour, not to mention other continuing work on the case. The appeal itself will take a long time to be heard. Where is Zimmerman’s money going to come from after his parents’ Website stops pumping oil? It will not last forever. The whole mess becomes a perplexing quandary. Does he bite the bullet and stick with Judge Lester, or does he go for the appeal with money he doesn’t really have?
WILL ZIMMERMAN DOUBLE DOWN?
The idiomatic verb form of double down means to double or significantly increase a risk, investment, or other commitment. Is Zimmerman willing to risk everything, which includes an impending money problem, in order to have a judge removed from his case? While waiting an indefinite amount of time for any other relief? Remember, filing an appeal does not mean an automatic win. The appellate court might just turn him down. Where would he go from there?
In the meantime, the defense still has the option to file an indigency motion if the well runs dry, but that means getting the JAC involved and O’Mara can kiss his $400 per hour good bye. You see, while the motion to appeal is at the appellate level, the show must go on, and Judge Lester would proceed as usual. So, while things seem like they are beyond reach for the defense, they really aren’t, but there are a number of catches. There’s the part about seeking a stay. Plus, by allowing this judge to decide motions, doesn’t it just confound the whole thing? Why let the same judge rule on anything if you want him off the bench? Right now! If O’Mara files an appeal, he’s pushed himself into a corner where he’s pretty much forced to file a stay. That’s a given, right? So what’s he supposed to do?
THE GOOD OLD INTERLOCUTORY ORDER
The Free Dictionary defines an interlocutory order as:
“Provisional; interim; temporary; not final; that which intervenes between the beginning and the end of a lawsuit or proceeding to either decide a particular point or matter that is not the final issue of the entire controversy or prevent irreparable harm during the pendency of the lawsuit.”
This could include the issue over the judge, but I doubt it, because, even though these types of actions are taken prior to trial, which fits in this case, and must be answered by an appellate court; there is a reluctance to make interlocutory orders unless the circumstances surrounding a case are serious enough to warrant such action. And they are restricted by courts because they don’t want to be tied up by piecemeal litigation. The clincher is that the lower court usually enters a final judgement, meaning a verdict, before it’s appealed.
If not that, then what?
THE WRIT OF PROHIBITION
According to The Florida Bar Journal, “A writ of prohibition enables an appellate court to prevent a lower tribunal from further exercising jurisdiction in an action. Generally, it cannot be used to remedy an act that has already happened.” Whew! Relief, right? It’s not quite that easy.
While a petition for writ of prohibition “is generally used to challenge the denial of a motion to disqualify the judge of the lower tribunal,” it is also “the appropriate method for forcing a lower tribunal, including an administrative agency, to dismiss a matter for lack of jurisdiction.”
In his order, Judge Lester did leave open the option of argument at the appellate level to establish whether the motion to recuse him was the first or second motion to dismiss the trial judge, but I wouldn’t bet the farm that the higher court would rule Zimmerman’s way. As a matter of fact, that’s not even close to being the crux of the perplexing quandary he’s in. It’s…
FLORIDA SUPREME COURT RULE 9.310.
Let’s just say that, pursuant to Florida Rule of Appellate Procedure 9.310:
RULE 9.310. STAY PENDING REVIEW
(a) Application. Except as provided by general law and in subdivision (b) of this rule, a party seeking to stay a final or non-final order pending review shall file a motion in the lower tribunal, which shall have continuing jurisdiction, in its discretion, to grant, modify, or deny such relief. A stay pending review may be conditioned on the posting of a good and sufficient bond, other conditions, or both.
(b) deals with exceptions, such as money judgments and public officials. (c) pertains to bonds, (d) with sureties, and (e) with duration, and none of them apply. But if you move on to (f), and combine it with (a), we hit pay dirt.
(f) Review. Review of orders entered by lower tribunals under this rule shall be by the court on motion.
What’s that mean? It’s quite simple, actually. Remember O’Mara’s words to Pipitone, “seeking a stay of all other matters…”?
That’s right! In order for the defense to seek that stay, they must go through the same court, “which shall have continuing jurisdiction, in its discretion, to grant, modify, or deny such relief.” “Review of orders entered by lower tribunals under this rule shall be by the court on motion” actually seals the deal. A stay motion would be filed in Lester’s court and he would have to move to agree to it. Would he? Oh, probably, but in the meantime, like I said, the show must go on. While filing an appeal, the defense can soldier on with their motions and the judge can continue to write orders. Unless. of course, the judge rules on a stay. In which case, poor, poor George will stay in Seminole County for months and months to come, gnawing at the bracelet that will stay on his ankle.
Yes, there’s been lots to ponder since Friday. I wonder what George thinks God’s plan is.
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Benjamin Crump, Bernie De la Rionda, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Florida Fifth District Court of Appeal, George Zimmerman, JAC, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Judicial Administrative Commission, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Seminole County, Slimm v. Zimm, Tony Pipitone, Trayvon Martin, WKMG, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (30)
Great post Dave. I honestly don't think it would be a wise move for O'Mara to appeal Judge Lester's decision. Not any of them. Given the circumstances in their totality, and the high level of respect Judge Lester has earned, and given the fact that the other judges are his peers, I would think any judge replacing Judge Lester would either consciously or subconsciously resent the idea that a fellow member of the bench was removed for chastising a defendant for lying to the Court. Not only that, but depending on the next judge in line, they might find themselves dealing with one who is far less favorable to their situation than Judge Lester.
As I see it, the judge replacing JL might even place greater conditions of release on GZ. Just because all of his rulings would be revisited, there is no guarantee, they would be reversed. And they would be completely stuck with the new judge. They just need to deal with the mess GZ has created, and live with the consequences of GZ's actions. IMO, they need to worry more about building a defense than which judge hears the case. All judges are bound by the law. It's the jury they need to worry the most about. They are the ones who will ultimately make a decision about which side is most credible.
[Thank you, Sempre Invictus. I agree with you 100%. I don't think an appeal would be wise, either, because there are no guarantees. Zimmerman should bite the bullet, so to speak, and accept his scolding for what it was and that's it. Move on. Of course, from what I've seen so far, he makes some very strange and impulsive decisions. So far, they've worked against him, so who knows what his twisted logic will produce.]
Love it!!! Zimmerman is in quite a predicament now isn't he?
[Thank you, A. Yes, he is. No one is more deserving, either.]
Very interesting. Now, will GZ make the decision or MOM.
[I'm glad you found it to be interesting, Newbie. Who will make the decision? GZ as far as I'm concerned. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if O'Mara announces a move to appeal. Such is the twisted logic of his client.]
Dave~~excellent post....so much so that my brain turned to pure mush. I will have to reread it a couple more times. Maybe it is due to the late hour as all I can think of is, "oh what a tangled web we weave because of one who did deceive."
Sempre expressed things very well to which I whole heartedly agree...
[[Thanks, Snoopy! I agree with her, too.]
Hey Snoops, they might get Judge Dickey. LOL
Seriously, I just can't imagine that a new judge will make or break this case.
I also think O'Mara has a client who is his own worst enemy. All of the statements GZ has made since the shooting have made the SYG case tougher to prove. Especially given the fact that a judge as opposed to a jury will make the initial decision regarding whether or not the case will be heard by a jury. I honestly believe if GZ had kept his mouth shut from day one, he would have pulled off his SYG claim. IMO, this case will be decided by a jury. I don't think any judge regardless of who hears the SYG claim will dismiss the case in advance. Too many conflicting statements made by GZ.
Dave~~I am going to sound real dumb now... I thought that by the defense appealing Judge Lester's response not to step down that it would not be heard by the appeals court until the end of the trial. In this way, if the verdict of a trial was not in the defense's favor, it would be cause to appeal the verdict and seek a new trial. By appealing the motion, I thought it was just a formality , it would be just kept on the record. It seems rather odd to let a trial go into limbo for a year or more waiting for a decision from the appellant courts.
Shall I make some predictions.. I am always wrong.
There will be no appeal. O'Mara will declare Zimmerman indigent in the very near future. They will take their chances on a mini trial to seek immunity on SYG. If that fails, they will go for a jury trial. Judge Lester will not permit Zimmerman to leave Seminole.
[This is a separate appeal. It would make no point to appeal the entire case beforehand. Z has a chance of winning a possible SYG motion, and if not, he could still be found not guilty at trial. If either of these comes true, what point would an appeal make? Also, there's the issue of a stay. How could a judge proceed with motion hearings and orders if he is told by a higher court that he cannot continue pending an appellate decision? That would mean there would be no trial or anything else if the present judge is not replaced. If Z loses the trial, he would be able to file an appeal on that matter, but this situation today just deals with the judge on the bench now. The defense wants him out now before anything proceeds. I hope that makes sense to you.]
Sempre~~Judge Dickey didn't end up all that bad. I think the dude who was trying to sue him and everyone else in the court system was a kook.
While reading your post my mind kept wandering to GZ's father. I'm left wondering if he's the type that will offer good advice on the subject to his son and if his son is the type to take it. I kept thinking of my ex -husband. He was a physician's assistant and for each patient that came to him he had this great "bedside manner" but with us at home he always said "take 2 aspirin and lay down". If his father is of that mentality then I would say "God help O'mara" because even though his client has the last word, his client's father could be guiding him through all this, and letting him know the options up front.
I do expect O'Mara to ask for indigency soon - maybe at the next court hearing. I imagine his pseudo-parent's website isn't bringing in much. It seems like he thought he wasn't bringing in much on his own that maybe he could start one up in his parents name and get the same 200,000 there.
Left up to GZ without his father's advice, he will probably stay with Lester and take his chances, thinking down the road they'd file an appeal if he gets convicted. GZ wants out of the county, he wants the ankle monitor off, and he wants the whole thing over with and everyone agreeing he was the "innocent party".. today. I doubt he'll go for any stay unless he feels he will be convicted, which I think he doesn't. After all CA got off didn't she? .. sheesh.
[I'm sure Gz's father is proffering legal advice, but whether it's good advice or not is the question. After all, he was a magistrate in another state, not a circuit court judge in Florida. Granted, rules are rules, but courtroom protocol varies tremendously and so does advice from one lawyer to the next, and I don't believe GZ's father was ever a lawyer. As a matter of fact, in Virginia, they generally aren't, and they cannot offer legal advice. See: The Office of the Virginia Magistrate]
Dave~~Mark O'Mara has not updated his website since July 16th??? I found the following tidbit, off topic but thought I would throw it in here. I was hunting around to see if I could find anything on the appeal. We should hear by tomorrow. Did you find out anything about the hearing scheduled for Aug 8th? I wonder if it is still going to take place.
Trayvon Martin family's HOA insurance claim lands in federal court
[I spoke to the court today and, yes, there is a docket sounding for GZ on Wednesday, but it will be lumped in with the many other docket soundings scheduled for that day. In other words, there's no set time for anyone. GZ need not attend and his sounding could be at any given moment. All his attorney will do is ask for a trial date, which I seriously doubt, or a continuance, which is more likely. I'm not going to go. It would be a big waste of time.]
Dave~~more off topic but things are a bit slow until we learn of O'Mara's next move...
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Trayvon Martin's mother is seeking money from a state fund that helps crime victims in Florida.
The Associated Press has learned through a public records request that Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, applied for victim compensation benefits after her son was shot to death last February by former neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman.
Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to a second-degree murder charge. He says he shot the 17-year-old in self-defense.
State officials and an attorney for Martin's parents won't say how much they're seeking.
Money for the fund comes from court fees paid by offenders, as well as other sources.
Applicants can be reimbursed for lost wages, funeral expenses, medical expenses and mental health counseling.
Trayvon Martin's parents seek money from Fla. fund
[I'm not a bit surprised, but I wonder whether it's contingent on a conviction. Still, she most certainly is a victim.]
Thank you for the 'new' post, Dave. This is the most 'comprehensive' effort to explain the legal events that I have seen!
So, what we are watching for is - first - the defense motion to appeal the judge's decision not to recuse himself. Then, right away we should see the defense seek a 'stay'--which would technically put the case on hold until the Appellate Court rules.
If the defense only file a motion to appeal the judge's decision not to recuse--but no motion to 'stay' proceedings--then he will still be the judge until the court of appeals does their review and comes to their decision. And he can still preside over the case.
Meanwhile, Geogie's motion to travel afar sits on Mr. O'Mara's desk. : - )
Wow! Decisions. Decisions.
I do have a tendency to agree with ConnieFl; but I'm off to read the link you left for her.
(lol--by the time I get this 'commented' a motion will likely be filed.)
[My pleasure, nan11, and I'm happy you found it to be the most comprehensive post on this subject.
I think any appeal filed by the defense would have to include a motion to stay. After all, if they want the judge off the bench, why let him rule on anything else? While anything is possible with George in control, I would be plenty surprised if they do file an appeal. It's a lot to consider, and time means money.]
Ahhh thanks for the clarification on GZ's father.
That link for the Martins and Travelers Insurance that Snoopy put up is interesting. Florida is the only state I've lived in (and I've lived in 7) that puts a clause into it's lease (for rentals) that states "the apartment complex cannot be responsible for your safety". To me HOA insurance would cover things that apply to the building and premises itself, that the individual home owners insurance would cover things such as accidents on the individual family's property. Since the shooting occurred on the common grounds, and not inside a residence I doubt they'll get anything more than any other victim of a shooting. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Yes, there are quite a few odd and unnecessary things that make this case unique, but when all is said and done it's a shooting. The Martins shouldn't expect anything more than the average victim of a crime gets in this country. Sad, but it's the way it is.
[I figured this would be a good time to explain what a Virginia magistrate is all about. People keep equating Z's father with Judge Lester and there is no comparison.
Alas, I think you may be right about the HOA and insurance claims. The only thing is, GZ was in patrol mode, and there may be some semblance of responsibility in that capacity. I could see this one in and out of court for years to come.]
Ahhh I answered my own question... did a little research online. I was thinking "shooting on your property" and "shooting in your home", when the basis for this lawsuit is probably the crime watch program and not monitoring it or GZ. .
Realty times article
Orlando Sentinel article on it
[And I neglected to mention the property management company. There could be a number of entities involved by the time all is said and done.]
Dave: From your link:, that is a pretty impressive job. It would require a little bit more knowledge of the law than just an ordinary person would have, imo.
Quote: Magistrates have the following powers:
♦To issue arrest warrants.
♦To issue search warrants.
♦To admit to bail or commit to jail.
♦To issue warrants and subpoenas.
♦To issue civil warrants.
♦To administer oaths and take acknowledgements.
♦To act as conservator of the peace.
♦To accept prepayment for traffic and certain minor misdemeanor offenses.
♦To issue temporary detention orders.
As a general rule, magistrates may exercise their authority only within the borders of their judicial district. End Quote
And then there is this: Quote: Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa's brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.
In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District. End Quote
No small potatoes, there. I think he might have a wee bit of influence--not saying he would/or is--using it. Just sayin'. {sigh}
[Oh, I wouldn't question his credentials, nan11, but I wouldn't compare him to a circuit court judge, either. He could have been a nuclear physicist, with all those credentials, but even in his position as a magistrate, he wasn't knowledgeable about civil justice, let alone criminal. And he wasn't allowed to dispense legal advice. He's still not qualified to do that.]
Another write-up concerning Mr. O'Mara future extracurricular activities. Alrighty, then. ;)
Media Matters - George Zimmerman’s Attorney To Address Gun Rights Activists At Second Amendment Foundation Conference
Quote: Although the guest list has not been finalized, it is likely that O'Mara will get the chance to rub elbows with some of the most ardent defenders of "Kill At Will." End Quote
[You know, I'm a little disappointed in Mark. Here's a guy that, I'd be willing to bet, is not a member of the NRA, and never had a strong interest in guns. Until now. And now, he's suddenly a leading authority on them? A veritable Charlton Heston? Why? Because his client killed someone with a pistol? That makes him a role model for gun owners? That's downright weird. God forbid what would happen if he ever defends a white supremacist.]
The first link is a twelve minute video. It can speak for itself, if you have the time.
Published on Aug. 2, 2012 by ThisIsIceman 360 | YouTube VIDEO | You Got A Problem Homie?
VIDEO details: Excerpts from the investigation into the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Part 1. This video contains a collage of statements and additional audio. None of the statements have been altered or taken out of context. Decide for yourself what you believe to be the truth about this tragic story.
Now, the other night when I was reviewing Hannity's interview with George, I made note of this statement by Mr. O'Mara:
At about 31:00 minutes in:
Mark O’Mara: "And, again, remember—whether it is stand-your-ground, or simple self-defense—what that law says is that if you are acting in reasonable belief of fear of great bodily injury, or death—so, the focus is: are you in fear of great bodily injury—then you are allowed to respond to that with deadly force."
Now keeping Mr. O'Mara's statement in mind, contemplate the following:
At about 13:47 minutes in of first link:
Det. Serino: Did it ever occur to you to go ahead and actually ask this person what he was doing out there?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Det. Serino: Was it fear; precaution; safety—all the above; or—tell me what was going through your head?
Zimmerman: I didn’t want to confront him. [Unintelligible.] ...it wasn’t my job.
Det. Serino: Okay. And, so—by not—your job is not to really do anything at all—when it comes to that kind of stuff. It wasn’t your job to monitor him either; but {snipped}
At about 14:56 minutes in of first link:
Det. Serino: {snipped} ...I’m telling you right now, the kid has no violent background; no violent tendencies that we can find. What made him snap? He is not on drugs—okay, fill in that blank.
Zimmerman: The other thing was—when he walked up to my car, he reached in his waistband, and held his hand there.
Det. Serino: He was probably holding his iced tea.
Zimmerman: I don’t.. [Unintelligible.]
Det. Serino: That is why I’m... [Unintelligible.] Did he say anything?
Zimmerman: I, I, I—it was raining; so, I had my windows up, and I was on the phone. I didn’t... [Unintelligible.]
At about 15:57 minutes in of first link:
Det. Singleton: I’m still not understanding, here. When he walked up to his car—why didn’t you say anything to him?
Zimmerman: I guess, fear. I didn’t want to confront him. [Unintelligible.] (Me: He finally almost gave the right answer! Keep reading.)
Det. Singleton: But, you were afraid of him?
Zimmerman: Yes. (Me: Good boy, Georgie. Go to the front of the class!)
Det. Singleton: Then, do you say he ran?
Zimmerman: Yes.
Det. Singleton: Okay. Then, you get out of your car and run after him?
Zimmerman: I didn’t run after him. No. I walked to find the street name, or a street sign; and he had already run—cut out between the houses. So, I knew that ... {snipped} (Me: Poor Georgie, maybe his meds were making him a bit thick minded.)
At about 17:11 minutes in of the first link:
Det. Serino: And dispatch says to stay in the car; but yet, you decide to go ahead just to orientate yourself—but, once again, which lands the question on: once—in fear for not lowering your window ‘cause he is right in front of you: two—outside exposing yourself to the possibility of getting attacked by the person. That coupled with, like I said, the apparent background disposition of the child—I don’t know whether he is a child, at this point he is a juvenile—what set him of? And there will be a question forever, in everybody’s mind. The only person who can talk is you. {Snipped.}
At about 18:13 minutes in of the first link:
Zimmerman: {snipped} ...he was just trying to look tough or... [Unintelligible.]
Singleton: So, you didn’t think he had a weapon?
Zimmerman: No. No. (Me: I had to listen very closely to hear his ‘no, no.' Honest, I would not be surprised if some people disagree with me, here.)
So, it looks to me like law enforcement worked with him; and worked with him; and worked with him--trying to get him to say that he was frightened for his life.
Now, maybe he just didn't want to admit to the police officers that he was scared enough to 'dirty his drawers.' But, wait, didn't I hear extreme duress in the screams on the 911 witness call?
Ahh. Funny about that--the screams are the only evidence of "fear of great bodily injury"—to which you are allowed to respond with deadly force."
Before and after, Georgie was as cool as a cucumber. MOO
[I listened to that whole video. Yes, I agree with Serino in the end. In the end, the truth will come out. George Zimmerman is a liar. Thanks, nan11.]
Global Grind - Tracy Martin Returns To Work After Months Of Fighting For Justice For Trayvon (DETAILS)
And, Daralene Jones (WFTV)--in a 'tweet'--said that Trayvon Martin's parents said that any money they get from state trust fund because of Trayvon's death will be donated.
Dave: Sorry to link this topic yet again, but Mr. Sheaffer makes such an apropo statement that I couldn't resist:
WFTV - Trayvon Martin's mother seeks money from HOA, state fund
Quote: "If I were on the board of directors of the homeowners association, I might be opening up a website, asking for contributions at this point," said [Bill] Sheaffer.
As always, he rocks!
(I truly believe that Tracy and Sybrina are doing what anyone would do in their circumstances--and it is somewhat pathetic that they are being made to feel that they should apologize for it.)
I just put up a statement from Trayvon Martin's family and their attorneys. It explains what they are doing, but you're right, Bill Sheaffer comes up with some real zingers! That's one of them for sure.
Dave~~Bill Sheaffer must have ate his words as I cannot find them. You know how much I adore that man.
Dave~~I just copied this from Conniefl's second link upthread... things could get a bit dicey at the Retreat if the HO gets sued...see very last paragraph.
Legal judgments and settlements against an association's board members and directors are usually covered by an errors-and-omissions insurance policy, but the community's crime-watch program would not be covered because it's considered more of a neighborhood committee, Bergemann added.
In the past, associations facing legal damages have tried to file bankruptcy, but judges have not looked favorably on such a strategy, Bergemann said. Also, judges have considered the houses in a community as collateral to cover such damages, he said.
In 2006, the state's 3rd District Court of Appeal held the homeowner association for a South Florida community, Lago Grande, partially responsible in a wrongful-death case; property owners there were assessed about $2,000 each to pay the legal judgment.
Great post Dave.
[Thank you, Joanna. I appreciate it very much.]
Here is the link again. This one should work. : - )
2nd last paragraph for Mr. Sheaffer's quote.
WFTV - Trayvon Martin's mother seeks money from HOA, state fund
(Revised to add: Okay, the link does open, {as of right now anyway.} I just clicked on it a couple of times, and it does work.)
[The link works and I did read Sheaffer's comment. I tried to open the old link and it didn't work. It was the link that WFTV provided on their own site and it led to nowhere, so it was an internal problem on their end. Thanks, nan11.]
I know this may be a dumb question but today O'mara has filed a motion to continue is that the same as Stay Motion??
[Good question, Babe132321, and not a dumb one at all. A motion to stay is totally different. A sounding docket is a procedure where the defendant is either given a trial date or a continuance, depending on what is asked for. In Zimmerman's case, it's too early to set a trial date and his attorney asked for it to be postponed for now. Judge Lester granted the continuance, so he's still at the helm. If the defense asks for a motion to stay, they are requesting that the judge stop all decisions. No hearings, no orders... nothing. The case would be put on hold until an appellate court settles the issue.]
Dave~~ now I fully understood your response to Babe132321... Good question, Babe, btw. thx as I was about to ask the same thing.
Dave ~~I do not think we will see O'Mara appeal the motion of Judge Lester not stepping down nor do I see a request for a stay.
The continuance is to give the defense more time to prepare for the mini trial to seek immunity on SYG. It is almost a given that this mini trial will take place and who really knows, they may put forth enough evidence and Z may just get the immunity.
I am unsure if a trial date has to be set ( October) before a mini trial can take place. Does anyone know the answer to that? If it doesn't, I expect to see mini trial take place sometime next month.
We have George's conflicting statements but they can be cancelled out with all the conflicting accounts given by the witnesses on that fatal night. George changed his account of the events leading up to and during the shooting. Some of the witnesses also changed their stories. Dee Dee's testimony regarding the happenings may come into question.
There are still phone records that have yet to be released plus a toxicology report. The timing of Dee Dee's phone records matching up with Trayvon's will be crucial. There is also a question of, did the media influence some of the testimony of the witnesses?
As per usual, I try and use a bit of logic and look at the whole broad picture. You may take note that I do not call George Zimmerman other than his Christian name etc and do not cast judgement on any of the players in this case, lawyers included. I refuse to get emotionally involved with any case I follow. This makes me come across as being somewhat cold hearted but it pays in the long run by not allowing anything to cloud my take on how I see things. JMO
Zimmerman's conflicting statements cannot be cancelled out by anyone. He's the only REAL witness left. Not the neighbors. No one saw the actual shooting or all of the events leading up to it. Anyway, this isn't like a point system. Zimmerman 1, Neighbor 1. Zimmerman is the central figure here and it's his words - yes, plural - against the evidence. If he chooses to go the SYG route, he will need to take the stand in order to make his point loud and clear. If he doesn't, he has nothing to go on and there's no way he could succeed. By taking the stand, he opens up his defense to the state. In other words, is he willing to risk almost everything on this motion? In my opinion, he stands a much better chance at trial.
In Florida, the appellate courts have been wrestling with the proper procedure for pursuing a SYG claim of immunity. The First District Court of Appeal agrees with having an evidentiary hearing, permitting the trial court to weigh and confront factual disputes, and to letting the judge render a ruling. However, the Fourth District Court of Appeal has ruled that when the state files a proper affirmation, the motion for dismissal must be denied by the trial court and the case then proceeds to trial. As far as I'm concerned, this is not a cakewalk for Zimmerman. Not in the least. This is risky territory in his case, where even the Castle Doctrine does not apply.
Dave~~ you silly man, I didn't mean that they keep a little score pad and put a bunch of x's and o's down. Would the jurors scrutinize all of Z's different recollections of what took place? ... oh yes, Rionda will be sure to point out all the inconsistences but O'Mara just may get the jurors to take note of all the flaws in the witnesses' accounts and that includes Dee Dee. This is what I meant about one cancelling out another.
No trial is a cakewalk, especially in the state of Florida. We have all witnessed what can take place.
I expect O'Mara to pull some heavy duty tricks out of his bag of goodies... I look forward to seeing just what they may be. Slow and steady may win the big race.
[A lot of that evidence will hinge around what led up to the shooting. Did anyone see Zimmerman exit his truck? Did anyone see him running after Trayvon? Did anyone see him walk to the other side? How will he explain the location of the body? It was not near the T, where Z said the fight took place. Since you are addressing a SYG hearing ONLY at this point, why are you bringing jurors into this conversation?
Slow and steady? Oh, yes, that's precisely the way O'Mara has been handling his client. Or is it the other way around?]
Conflicting statements arent cancelled out when the Judge already knows the lies about the money and isnt going to just buy into everything Georgie says being the truth. I cant see him winning any SYG hearing , there is way too many questions in this case and of course the only other witness is dead so the Judge is gonna let a jury decide this one imo. So good for you keeping an open mind Snoopy, I have heard enough to decide that a jury needs to hear all the information and see if they believe Georgie . lol and i will still call him names, he doesnt deserve anything better
There still seems to be some info that involves Georgies friend , Mark , I think, with the video of him at the bank and there is some people who swear there is another person in the truck with Georgie when he made that non emergency 911 and Georgie has made the comment that him and shellie went for groceries every single week so it is still possible that she was there. We dont have all the evidence yet. Who knows what will happen with this case, who knows Georgie may even end up shooting someone else since he is so paranoid about his own safety and the safety of family members. I also read too that his sister lost her goverment job over her part in the money scam. I just think Georgie may be getting himself so wound up that he could be a ticking time bomb. We may see lots of surprises yet before this case reaches a trial.
[I don't believe anyone else was in the truck with George. My rationale is quite simple. We heard no one else speak, nor was there any kind of interaction between him and anyone else. At that time, there was no reason for George to protect any other person, and when he exited his vehicle, the other person would have tagged along for support. Unless it was his wife, of course, but then again, he did tell a witness to call his wife immediately after the shooting. She had no reason to hide from anyone, including the cops.]