Through Paranoid Eyes (The Clincher)
Friday, June 29, 2012 at 1:29AM And his own words that are nothing but lies
In the last post, I wrote about the inconsistencies in George Zimmerman’s stories about what transpired the night of the shooting. The following 8 photos are video screen shots taken from his reenactment. Below it will be an overhead view of the location, according to George, of where the fight and gunshot took place.
Approximate area where Trayvon stood according to Zimmerman.
The above photos show George’s reenactment positions during the confrontation. I have several problems with that. One, where was Trayvon hiding? The sidewalk paths are open except for the spindly trees — certainly no place to hide. Two, Trayvon was positioned southeast of George, who said he was heading back to his vehicle. In order for this fight to have occurred where George said, it meant he would have had to go to Trayvon. If it was the other way around, the fight would have taken place where George stood, on the sidewalk heading west. The third problem with the scenario George gave was that Trayvon shouted out to him. I’m not a fighter, but common sense tells me that if I am going to surprise someone with a punch, I am not going to say a word beforehand, which would give my opponent a warning first. I’d hit him and then ask him why he was following me.
Do you understand the problem? George would have to have turned toward Trayvon and walked to him. That’s all there is to it. Of course, there’s one more thing that makes absolutely no sense at all, and one of the commenters, CherokeeNative, brought light to it last night, before I had a chance to put this post up. THIS IS THE CLINCHER. To those of you who don’t read the comments, you can see from the next image why there’s a major, major problem with George’s account of the events the night of February 26. Had George been walking back to his truck like he said he was, from east to west, then why was Trayvon’s body found much farther south?
George must have surprised Trayvon, and that means he was never walking back to his truck from checking house numbers, like he said in his reenactment. Nor was he ever asked by the dispatcher to do such a thing.
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Benjamin Crump, Bernie De la Rionda, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, State Attorney Angela Corey, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 2 References 
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Reader Comments (245)
Hi Molly. Can you email me when you have a moment? mrsgottln(at)yahoo.com Thanks!!
Check your inbox, Cherokee!
Hi, I've been lurking here for a while and wanted to throw a couple of things out there:
1) I can't remember if I read it in an interview transcript or heard it in an interview with Z. but I could swear that Z. said something to the effect of 'I didn't need my hands anymore, so I reached for my gun...'. Did I dream this? LOL
2) Any idea why Frank T. has gotten himself embroiled in this whole mess? Could he be involved in Z.'s attempted apprehension of Trayvon ('the suspect'). Unless he's a media whore, I find it odd that he's so personally invested in Z.'s guilt or innocence.
[Hi, Tenacious-G... welcome to the blog!
With regard to #1, I don't recall Z saying that but, then again, I am the guy who just spent $209 to replace my car transponder key I lost earlier.
As for #2, I think Frank enjoys his day in the sun, but I also think he and George became good friends after his house (Frank's) was (or almost was) broken into and George called 911, saving the day. That's what I think, anyway.]
Hi, Marilyn - Thank you for reading my site and appreciating my work. I like to think of my blog as a community affair. 50% of it is me because it is my blog and my writing, and the other 50% belongs to the readers and, especially, those who comment because they bring fresh ideas into the mix. I always encourage a back and forth between all who comment. We all contribute to the energy reflected here. What's been going on prior to and up to this afternoon is sad. Hopefully, that is behind us now, and to be sure, I will not take sides. I like everyone. This should be the final word on it. No more.
The Trayvon Tragedy, on the other hand, is open for discussion from all angles; pro and con. There's so much more I want to explore, and I will. That's why it's important for you to offer up your ideas and suggestions. On my end, I will strive to be more attentive with comments. I have bad days, health-wise, but I will keep my eyes open.
Thank you for commenting, and please don't be afraid to open up. I promise... I don't bite.
I know GZ has made two differing statements about the gun. One was in the reinactment and I believe the other in a written statement. He stated he felt TM 's arm as TM was going for the gun and that he (GZ) clamped down on the arm with his. The other was something about feeling TM's hand.....
What still lingers in my mind is GZ saying he SAW TM become aware of his gun....not in those words but kI sure remember the SAW which GZ quickly corrected.
If you are fighting for your life you're going to be so aware to see someone's glance????????????
[Only two, Newbie? By the time the trial comes around, who knows how many different accounts will surface? In the end, I feel the state will be able to negate his stories based on forensics and other factors. It seems, like Casey, that Zimmerman is a pathetic and pathological liar. Like Cindy, his father has enabled him all his life. He was an accident waiting to happen, although even he won't admit that he didn't kill Trayvon on purpose.]
In the dark to boot, Newbie
Watching those videos Molly linked to shows that Trayvon was not on top of GZ when he was shot dead. I think that Trayvon saw that GZ had his gun in his hand (not in the holster) and began screaming and trying to get away until he was shot. GZ knew the police were on their way and probably figured he could lie to them about Trayvon coming after him. Had Trayvon been on top when he was shot, with GZ scooting out from under him one of his hands would not be under him but to the side.
You know, I really am finding it harder and harder to believe that Trayvon attacked GZ the more I learn of this case. I believe GZ grabbed Trayvon and Trayvon quickly got the best of him and I am almost sure of it that GZ had his gun out beforehand. Nope, he wasn't going to let that punk get away-he was going to bag him a bad guy...
BTW, I'm of the opinion that the jury will find GZ guilty as charged because he had two opportunities to introduce himself and he didn't. This is why I believe the SYG and self defense won't work as a defense. So, I'm not really paying as close attention to this case and all this other stuff since I believe its now a slam dunk. Though a jury will hear all of this other evidence, I believe its the fact that GZ did not introduce himself that will hang him. I served on a jury for a case similar to this one except it didn't, thank God, end in murder, and we found the defendant guilty because he didn't back down when he could have. He was claiming self-defense but when the prosecutor asked him if he was afraid of the assailant, he said Hell no! ~Case closed!
[I'm not convinced, Sherry, that a jury will find Zimmerman guilty of anything. I have my reasons for feeling that way, and I'll explain why in a future post. I will say my opinion has nothing to do with what I think about his guilt or innocence.]
Hi everyone
I used to post here a long time ago and came back when I remembered this case in also on Dave`s home turf and I love how he can go to the hearings etc and give a personal indepth look at it. I was so disgusted with the way caseys case went that I left all blogs for a while.
My biggest problem with this case is how there is no remorse. i have such a problem with that because a few years ago my sister was doing deliveries for a pizza place, and she hit a woman, she was drunk and ran out in front of my sister and the lady hit the windshield. My sister , a real toughie actually, was so distraught. She stayed the night with me and neither of us got any sleep because she kept wondering if she could have avoided it, the woman was fine after a few days in hospital so it wasnt even a death like in this case. I just keep thinking why is he so void of feeling for the death of Trayvon. I dont want anyone to twist my words but it feels to me like Zimmerman feels like Trayvon was just a thug and he rid the world of one more of these a**** and so therefore he isnt feeling the guilt the way I think he should for shooting an unarmed kid. And then the lies start out of his mouth and to me there is no doubt he isnt telling the story truthfully but will a jury see it that way ? I am not that confident that they will after the last fiasco.
[Welcome back, Elmosmommy! There are quite a number of people who left blogging in the aftermath of the Casey fiasco, so you are far from alone. I will say that after the trial and sentencing ended, I thought I'd have a lengthy reprieve, but that wasn't to be the case. As much as I wanted a break, I also felt strongly compelled to look deeply into the matter because this 17-year-old lad needs justice, and I was adamant about what a grown man did wrong. He willfully got out of his vehicle and stalked the boy with a gun loaded with hollow point bullets. Whether racially motivated or not, this guy had no reason to do this. That's what cops are for, and in his language to the police dispatcher, he made it clear he was profiling, and like I said, racial or not.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, too. Zimmerman has shown absolutely no remorse. He still refers to Trayvon as the SUSPECT, as if he's a bonafide law enforcement investigator. What a creep. This man killed someone and he still feels right about it. He lives in a strange world of his own making. All I can say about him is that he's a weirdo. I'm sorry about what your sister went through, but you're right, she has real feelings and a good heart - something that seems to be lacking in him except for those in his own convoluted world. Oh well, time will tell. In the interim, please make yourself at home. Your thoughts and ideas are more than welcome.]
OK, I'm a bit poohed and maybe this thought is goofy-but I can't help but think those minor scratches on GZ's head could be caused by the tree's branches. Those cuts just don't look severe enough for the sidewalk's edge-and where is the bruising? I would think there would be bruising, too. In one of the pictures in Dave's post it looks like he would be just the right height for it to be from being shoved into the tree. And Trayvon could still have managed to get on top of him to punch him in the face-but to slam his head in the sidewalk edge isn't quite computing with me.
I heard an ex-state trooper say that the guilty will always make a big issue of minor details where the more important details that points to their guilt will be minimized. That's the exact impression I got from GZ's re-enactment. he went into all kinds of details on being the victim but minimized the severity of what happened to Trayvon by his own hand.
[I think the cuts and scratches were inflicted by Trayvon, but at the same time, the boy was merely defending himself. I think Zimmerman was getting an old-fashioned whipping, which he sorely deserved. The man walked into a fight with a gun. The boy desperately defended himself and lost. The man then made up his own version because dead boys tell no tails.]
I am sort of new here. My Mom is Laurali. A couple of weeks ago while helping her I added my own 2 cents to "her" comments. The comments were in reference to George and Shellie Zimmerman's finances. My Mom raised us to be responsible and very mindful of our money. I am 17 and will be starting my second year of college next month. I do not have bills like the Zimmerman's do because I am still a minor.
My comments were twisted and made it sound like my Mom(because I wrote out the comment) did not care about poor people. That is not true. She is very good with finances. I swear she can turn a dollar bill into a twenty. Don't ask me how, I still have a lot to learn. I am a girl, I know how to make them disappear. lol
I tried to explain why it is not a good idea to not pay your bills. In my head this did not sound bad. I will try again to explain why I feel the Zimmerman's character comes into play. At my College for a few years if you did not have scholarships or the money to pay for school out of your pocket than you could not go. The Student Loan Repayments were so low for the school they were banned from the program. As a student it is not fair to me or other students to pay for the mistakes of past students. Your choice may effect the next person. If you can not afford it -do not hurt the person behind you.
I am poor, I am 17. Everything I have belongs to my Mom. I have zero credit and can not get a loan from a bank, but that is okay. I have everything I need. BUT what if I were a 17 year old single mother with a child and I needed that Student Loan to pay for my baby's day care? Well I would not be able to go because someone else did the wrong thing. (I do not have a baby, just an example) The school was warned and still for the next two school year, students took out loans and did not repay as they promised.
I think the problem here is things sound okay one way (in my head) but to some it sounds cold and heartless. This could be a very good learning experience for all of us. I am only 5 months older than Trayvon. I have my whole life ahead of me, maybe just maybe Mr. Zimmerman misunderstood him like some misunderstood me. Maybe Mr. Zimmerman did not have the patience to understand a kid.
I am not at liberty to explain why I made those comments for my Mom. It is her's to explain just know as a teenager we think differently than you do. That does not make us wrong and it does not make it right to shoot us or make us feel that we are not allowed to think for ourselves. I hope to get to participate in the future. I promise before I comment I will think and think some more to make sure it comes out a little less blunt. Most teens just say it and do not realize how cruel it may sound.
And just because I may sound like my Mom does not make me her, please remember it is my Mom. We live together, we laugh together and we play together. I look up to her so in some ways I want to be just like her. Other ways I don't. I do not want anyone to think it is okay to walk on me, it's not. I have feelings and if you hurt them, I tend to get snarky.
[Hi, Michelle - First off, I want to say I did receive your e-mails, but I am so backed up right now, it's pathetic. It will take me a long time to catch up.
I think you're right about character, and that's something the Zimmerman's seem to be lacking when it comes to their personal finances. In my opinion, it extends outward, and that includes George's clouded and corrupt judgement regarding the value of human life. I must tell you, if I had shot someone, even in a REAL sef-defense setting, I would be a basket case. Not here, though. George shows emotion only when it comes to himself and his family. In any event, I think we all welcome your views, because you see things from a much younger perspective. I'm sorry about the e-mails, but I strongly encourage you to continue with your input here on the blog.You have very valuable ideas to impart, and they would surely be appreciated. Thanks!]
Nice to see you again, elmosmommy~
No, no way to twist your words at all because I believe we all feel the same way you do. Like I said, GZ was wanting to bag himself a bad guy. And, yeah, his lies are evident! Looking for an address, my patootie! There was a video showing GZ's re-enactment and when GZ said he was going to look for an address, well, by golly if it didn't show that right infront of him was an address and that it's lit up at night! He didn't have to go far to find it!
Man! The SPD screwed this one up big time.
So good to see you, Michelle! Thanks for taking good care of your mom. She has every right to beam when speaking about you! OK, I do get that you don't want to be a vegetarian like her-lol! j/k! Eat your veggies!
I will be looking forward to your contributions here at Dave's. All the best to you in your college studies and future endeavors.
...and thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding...you made a good point to think on, too.
Snoopy - so far I'm not all that impressed with MOM.....he's had no control of his client which he should've from day one. If he'd done a proper history check on the Zimmerman's he would've known these people are opportunists who have managed up to now to skate by living beyond their means - by the skin of their teeth and with the aid of familes periodically helping them out. GZ's dad has intervened in every single one of his brushes with the law and has manage to broker deals for him. Shellie wasn't consistent with jobs or school. I wonder what her school record was like. I can't help but think she was flakey & dropped out to take online classes. A lot of people think they're easy and convenient - they're not, far from it. Theres lots of reading, studying, exercises, lessons, tests etc, it takes up a lot of your time. They're also more expensive than any brick & mortor school - jc or university. But I digress.....
IMO its was an unethical trick making the bond hearing into a mini-trial. And puh-lease asking the judge to allow GZ a statement with no cross examination is absurd. Why should GZ get to "testify" without cross by the prosecutor? (Again the entitlement attitude consistent with GZ's personality historically). He wasn't respectful towards the Martins when he said Trayvon died by his own fault which is a crock but was said without any kind of concern for the parents he knew were there. And again he had no right to bring this issue up at a bond hearing it was unfair and wrong.
I don't know O'Mara so I can't say whether he's a good man or not. I give him credit for doing his job well considering what he has to work with but he's pushing the envelope and doing it unfairly. I also agree with whoever said it doesn't appear his heart is into this.
Final thought: I'm still not seeing any remorse from GZ even in his reenactment he keeps justifying ending Trayvon's life but never says he's sorry or that he feels bad about it. There's a disconnect from the fact that Trayvon was a person, he talks about him as if he was a subject to observe. "he didn't look right", "something was off - way off", "he looked like he was on drugs". This and more was said by GZ during his reenactment.
[I'm going to cover the last hearing, a la mini-trial, in my next post, Mystical Pippin. There's more to it than meets the eye, I believe.]
Michelle
Please tell your mom we miss her input here.
Michelle: Even though I’m not a ‘regular’ reader here, and do not grasp the finer points of your comment, I want to let you know how it touched me.
When you explained that you were only five months older than Trayvon, I felt tears prickle my eyes.
Society lost so much the night that Mr. Zimmerman took that beautiful boy’s life. How can anything right that wrong? I wish I had an answer for that. ب_ب
I think Mr. O’Mara is a brilliant man with a very tough job to do. I know it is cliché—but someone has to do it. That is if the justice system is going to work. I guess we are all still reeling from that other trial where “the justice system” was shown to do anything but work for the victim, that is. (Which is 'in my opinion only'.)
I believe that Mr. O’Mara has very wide shoulders and can take the criticism. He is too smart to have not known what he was getting into.
I did get a little laugh, though, when you said that your Mom could make $20.00 out of $1.00. That is a talent that some people are blessed with. (Me, not so much.) ; - )
I think that Michelle's post is needed element that gives us more dimension and when she posted her age, a light bulb went off in my head. Reading Michelle's post, it bought home HOW Travon might have been thinking on that fateful night. The PR element of the defense, along with certain other groups have done a fine job of spinning this ranging from Travon the thug, Trayvon the dummy who used poor judgement and -coincidentally- beat up an armed man trying to "protect" the neighborhood. Most importantly her is being portrayed as an adult. Certainly not a kid.
But as I read Michelle's post, it really drives the point home that this was a kid who was being stalked that night and I think that he had to be absolutely terrified. I know that O'Mara has a job to do but considering the totality of what all of us reasonably believe to be true, it would be a travesty if he elects to do down that path that Trayvon was some how at fault here.
Thank you Michelle and please encourage Mom to come back.
Well said Porky. I believe O'Mara can defend his client with all the gusto expected of defense counsel without stepping off course to trash Trayvon. Trayvon had no way of knowing what GZ was - a gang member protecting his turf, a pedofile, or just a crazed person intent on doing him harm. In any case, I do believe Trayvon saw the gun and if Trayvon initiated any aggressive action, it was because he was terrified and trying to defend himself. It does not matter what his school record was, it does not matter whether he smoked marijuana, and it does not matter whether he stopped to do jumping jacks instead of running directly home - we will never know what happened in those two missing minutes - but I believe it is safe to assume that Trayvon was doing what he, as a teenager, felt was in his best interest to preserve hiswell-being. GZ was on a mission and lost all common sense when he stepped out of his vehicle that evening.
It was reported yesterday evening that Judge Lester's law clerks were busily researching and working on the Zimmerman case. I suspect that if the law clerks were still working on the FOF&COL/Order yesterday, it will take at least today to allow for the Judge to review it and make any changes he wants. I am in favor of Judge Lester socking it to Zimmerman and keeping him without bond. It would send a clear message to the community to stop with the perjury before the Court. Cindy Anthony got away with it and it is time that someone is made an example of to make it stop. At this point, Judge Lester has the discretion on whether or not to grant bond:
Florida statute 903.035 states:
903.035 Applications for bail; information provided; hearing on application for modification; penalty for providing false or misleading information or omitting material information.—(1)(a) All information provided by a defendant, in connection with any application for or attempt to secure bail, to any court, court personnel, or individual soliciting or recording such information for the purpose of evaluating eligibility for, or securing, bail for the defendant, under circumstances such that the defendant knew or should have known that the information was to be used in connection with an application for bail, shall be accurate, truthful, and complete without omissions to the best knowledge of the defendant.
(b) The failure to comply with the provisions of paragraph (a) may result in the revocation or modification of bail.
With all of that said, the odds are not in our favor that bond will be totally denied - it will more than likely just be much higher. The one thing that I believe we have going for us in favor of no bond, is Judge Lester's comment that O'Mara had not presented any mitigating factors for why GZ had allowed a fraud to be committed upon the Court - I am paraphrasing of course - but it gave me the impression that he felt that without any offer of mitigating factors, it was his discretion to go ahead and refuse bond - please don't take this as any form of legal interpretation - it was merely my gut feeling from listening to comments and reading his expressions. While it is my hopes that Judge Lester keeps GZ behind bars, the decision may be economic-- if he is released on bond, it costs the county nothing to house him, supervise him in special custody, etc. GZ one expensive inmate in a jail that averages about 44 inmates a day. Keeping GZ in custody could impact the county budget severely over the next one to two years it takes to go to trial. Plus, GZ isn't a flight risk and isn't a risk to the public. If anything, he is at risk at the hands of the public.
So, in reality, I believe GZ will get bond, but a very high bond. I also believe that Judge Lester's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law set out in his Order will render a severe tongue lashing to GZ... it is sure to be entertaining.
[After bond was first revoked, I wrote that a new bond, if granted, would and should be set much higher. I suggested $1,000,000. I hope I'm right, because that changes the money picture all the way around.]
I agree with Porky that Michelle's comments brought up a very important issue that has not been recognized by most people discussing this case. Trayvon was barely 17, and did not think like an adult. For anyone who is interested, there has been an explosion of knowledge recently about the teenage brain. The bottom line is that teenagers have a great capacity to learn, much greater than that of adults, but until the brain is fully myelinated, the judgment center doesn't work so well. It is the last part of the brain to mature (myelination), and in boys this may not happen until age 24-25. Here is a fascinating series on this by a professor of neurology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpMG7vS9pfw
Sherry's idea that GZ's head scratches might have been caused by a collision with the small tree makes a lot of sense to me. This would explain the strange placement. And I've said before that they look like scratches from a cat. Why do you disagree, Dave?
[I don't disagree for the sake of disagreement, Molly, I just think he was tossed around by Trayvon, but it was done in self-defense. If he hit the tree, there may have been evidence of it, but the police reports made no mention of it. Therefore, there's nothing to really support the theory. Possible? Yes, but not verifiable.
To be honest, I mentioned very early on that Trayvon did not possess the mind of an adult, and I made it quite clear. My ex got a degree in child psychology and she taught me all about that years ago. I don't know how many times I questioned people here, all adults, for pretending that they were never 17-year-old once, and subject to teenage actions. Like smoking pot. Heck, at 17, I sure was, but I never got caught in school with it. Even so, the trace amount found in Trayvon's system means absolutely nothing as far as the law is concerned.]
Dave: Here is a link to 'evidence' submitted at Friday's bond hearing. Maybe you have already seen it, (or at least most of it.)
The second link is directly to George Zimmerman's medical report. It shows the actual length of the puny little cuts to the back of his head, and a few other interesting tidbits.
Sorry if you have already seen this.
Evidence Submitted At The June 29 George Zimmerman Bond Hearing
George Zimmerman Medical Report
[No, nan11, I hadn't seen these documents yet, so many thanks for the links. I'll look at them now. I appreciate all documents!]
The first thing that jumped off the page for me in the medical report was confirmation of the early ABC news story that George went to the doctor because he wanted medical clearance to go back to work. I thought at the time that this showed an incredible dismissiveness of the seriousness of his actions the night before. Here is the confirmation from the report:
"He then returned to work and was told he needed a pollee report and medical clearance to return to work".
Further down the Medical Report:
"Notes: P{t Is here for a return note for work."
Some 40 minutes after the shot, George registerd normal respiration and heartbeat, according to an earlier released EMT report. A lot of comments here continue to marvel at George's lack of remorse, or even concern for Treyvon. I agree wholeheartedly, this guy is cold.
MollyK asked about the gunshots. I think there has been a lot of obscuring of the simple facts as to the distance of the gun. I don't think this was anyone's purpose, but the reports were presented in a very confusing way. There were two reports - one examining the fabric of the clothing, and one examining the body. Both discussed stippling, creating much confusion, but this doesn't change the conclusions. The clothing had "close" shots. That is, the gun was right next to the fabric. The shots entered both the hoodie and the shirt through holes that covered Treyvon's chest (that is - higher than the gunshot on the body).
The gunshot to the body was "intermediate" range. This was anywhere from 2-12 inches though some folks say 6-12 inches. This has never been pinned down to a definitive distance, but it was Not written as close range.
Ask yourselves, how can a bullet fired from the ground up at an assailant straddling one's chest, go through fabric that is above the gunshot wound on the body? How can a bullet go straight in - just off to right center of Treyvon's chest and an inch below the nipple, while shooting from below? Try to imagine someone firing up, while on their back and achieving such a shot. How is there room to allow 2 plus inches separation from the gun to the body and still shoot straight in? It would have required Treyvon's position to be parallel with George's position, hovering above him. How would George have managed to extricate himself so quickly and easily when Treyvon's body plopped right down on top of him? How did George get out from under without turning Treyvon over? The only logical explanation, which immediately clears up all inconsistancies, is that they were both standing. It's Occam's razor - it's the simplest explanation.
Otherwise, these are physically impossible variables.
George will only be convicted if the jury is 100% convinced the act was not self-defense. I hope the prosecution zeros in on how this part of the story could not have happened. It makes absolutely no difference who started it, if George had Treyvon subdued, and then shot him to silence those terrible screams.
[You make some very valid and convincing points about the shooting, Marilyn. I don't believe George's version, either, and that's what this article set out to prove; that he's a big liar. I fault the Sanford police for doing a lazy investigation, and I also blame the 18th Circuit state attorney for doing the same thing. Most of all, though, I blame George Zimmerman for being the cold, calculated killer that he really was that night. I hope the jury sees right though him.]
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-03/news/os-george-zimmerman-no-bond-decision-20120703_1_bond-motion-county-courthouse-teenager
Judge: I'll rule Thursday on Zimmerman's bond motion
[Thank you for the info. Can't wait!]
As I suspected, Judge Lester is using today to make any additions/changes to the FOF&COL/Order, having received the legal research, etc. from his law clerks. Dare I say this is where he will be adding his severe tongue lashing to GZ? :-)
[Dare you say? Yes!]
I want no more mud slinging on MY blog. We are here to discuss one thing, and that doesn't include people who comment here. I'm back in the saddle.
Hey Dave,
so you think racism is something that would float around in O'Mara's mind like smoke? And you have a smoke detector in your head that can tell that O'Mara is NOT racist, because it doesn't detect any smoke? And further, you know this FOR SURE because O'Mara has never called you a "cracker"....not to your face anyway?
There's no way you can be that naive. Racism is not smoke in the head. Racism is action. Imagine how offended O'Mara will be when he's told that he's a racist. Man...you'll have to pray for him. You'll have to say mass, and light a candle for him. For a whole year, he's gonna' go home and lock himself in his study....in the dark and not come out until after his wife is long gone to bed. Then, he's gonna stand in the shower for a straight hour weeping like a baby.
Then he's gonna be so mad at those people who told him the bad news. And he's gonna be so mad at you for not telling him first....as a "friend". And you'll start to get the idea that maybe you mistook "stiff" for "classy"....hey, it's a common mistake. And besides, maybe your "classy" detector is off...
'Cause you see Dave, racist O'mara if busy courting the ConservativeTreehouse racists as we speak.... What? You didn't know? ....oh well, those detectors are always on the blink...
What a shocker it will be for him...
[You said nothing about O'Mara and racism. You directed your insult to another commenter, and you cannot call a person a racist. Those are strong words to say about anyone. Whoever you think you are, trust me you are not. That is all I will say on the matter.]
I read the medical reports were released today so I thought if I came in here someone would have a link to them! Thanks Nan11!
So, George had 2 cuts to the back of his head, a closed fracture to the nose and that's it. I honestly can't look at those pictures above because all I see are those bandaids. No doctor that I ever came across used those things so I gathered he put them there or his wife did. For effect. His cuts as described weren't in need of bandaids. Most doctors use steristrips anyway, and if it had needed protecting or the edges closed a bit without stitches they would have used those. It seems like he was trying to make it look so much worse than it was. I have to wonder about his doctor after reading all those medications he prescribed. wow. I'm sure the prosecution is going to put an expert on the stand to explain the side effects of drugs like adderal.
One of the things that bothers me greatly about this. Like others it's how calmly GZ is about all of it. He's just way way too calm. Did you read his blood pressure? It wasn't even elevated! No complaints about sleeplessness or emotion whatsoever. That's scary. How can you kill someone, then have to be told by your employer you can't come back without a release from the Dr and the police?!! His refusal to go to an ENT I can understand. They didn't have a lot of money and I imagine they'd have to come up with the deductible to see another doctor if they had insurance and the entire thing if they didn't.
I watched the videos someone linked to earlier with the recreation and they were very interesting. I get the feeling George didn't wait for Trayvon to reach for his gun. I imagine when his head hit the ground his hand went for the gun.... the straight on shot had to have been done while standing imo. (or hovering above him like someone else mentioned).
I'm glad to see you back Dave and that you're feeling better. Take care of yourself.
[Hi Connie - I'm sure George's wife placed those giant butterfly bandages on his head. No way a real nurse did it. As for the rest of it, it's good to see a lot of people questioning him now. Right from the start I had a problem with him, so it's nice to know he's living up to my expectations. Anyway, thanks, it's good to be back in the saddle. I shall do my best to keep up with it, so I will take good care of myself.]
Dave - your post regarding mud slinging followed my post - I certainly hope you are not interpreting what I have posted as being anything other than discussing the case.... Have I missed something?
[Sorry, CherokeeNative, no it was not you. Someone called another commenter a racist. I should have made myself clear. However, you can read a new comment that came in and my response to it. I think you'll get the idea.]
Sherry> No fear of me become a vegetarian, you can call me T-bone. Thank you for the well wishes on College. I am sure when Mom speaks of me, beaming is the last thing she does. I am the prankster. :)
Mystical> I am sure when she is up to it she will be back.
Nan> IMO Mr O'Mara is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. Everyone deserves a defense but it should never be built on assumption. It seems to me because Trayvon was a teenager everyone just assumes he acted like a thug. I did not get to go to the traditional high school. Had I went I am sure I would have been in trouble also, probably paddled, suspended and expelled because I love pranking people. I will glue your shoes to the floor in a minute. I can not help myself. I love to laugh. We hear all kinds of things Trayvon supposedly did in his short life, but it seems no one wants proof. Trayvon does not get the benefit of the doubt.
Porky> I think I get what you are saying. For the most part adults have discussed Mr. Zimmerman and what he has and has not done. No one thinks about what Trayvon will never be able to do. I am so excited I get to vote in November. Trayvon will never get to do that. He will never feel the excitement from getting accepted into THE college of HIS choice. These are things people my age are looking forward to.
Cherokee you make a good point about how Trayvon must have felt. I would be terrified if a strange man followed me. In no way do I think teens are dumb but we are suppose to be respectful and have faith that an adult would never hurt us, so if it were me in Trayvon's situation, I could see how it would be confusing. IF Trayvon did see the gun it would seem he only defended himself, is he not allowed the same SYG Law as Mr. Zimmerman because he is still a kid?
Molly you are right, we make mistakes because we do not think like an adult. Could explain why we can't get loans and have restrictions on our driver's license. I make snap judgements, where as my Mom and sister think it through and decide what is the best plan. It does not make us any less intelligent, just immature about how the world really works.
Dave it is okay that you were busy and unable to email me back. It makes me feel better knowing you are not upset with me. I won't pretend to know Trayvon but I will say thugs normally do not plan for their future and they almost never plan on going to college. It is to bad some people do not give us a chance and think our lives are worth nothing. When I say us it is because other than he is a boy and I am a girl there is no difference in Trayvon and myself. We just want to find our place in the world and fit in.
T-Bone, er, I mean, Michelle, you little devil, you! LOL!
Your last sentence tells it like it is and I think adults tend to forget what they were like as kids themselves. Trayvon was just trying to fit in and it was a phase to be a wanna be gangsta (i.e., a tough guy, not a criminal)-not his career choice. All teens want to fit in as well as be their own person and it takes them through various stages, be they a few or one. But its just a stage. And it got on the social media and certain GZ supporters ran with it just like the media ran with NBC's edited version of the 911 call. It only inflames everyone and throws objectivity out the window. Trayvon deserves way better than that.
I'm a grown woman, and there's no way nobody's gonna' tell me I can't discuss racism in his house. Did I look like a punk to you, Dave?
...Oh wait, you can't see me.
[WANNA BET? I COME TO YOUR HOUSE, I FOLLOW YOUR RULES. YOU COME TO MY HOUSE, YOU FOLLOW MINE. I SAID THERE WILL BE NO MORE TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER COMMENTERS HERE. I MEAN WHAT I SAID. YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME? POOF!]
I've been reading the phone transcripts between GZ & SZ - its much easier than listening to the audio. I'm wondering what you all think of these:
ZIMMERMAN: Okey dokey. You know what I was thinking?
WOMAN: What?
ZIMMERMAN: If they, if they do decide to give me bail or bond
WOMAN: Uh huh
ZIMMERMAN: um, maybe I can just leave from the Sanford Airport and go up to, uh, um,Heaven.
was he thinking about leaving the country? If not where is he talking about?
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. What are you up to?
SHELLIE: Nothing. Susie and I are just uh, figuring stuff out with the accounts.
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, okay. Did you pay everything off yesterday?
SHELLIE: Yes I did, I paid all the bills.ZIMMERMAN: You paid them off, right?
SHELLIE: Well, anything that needed to be paid off, I did. Um, the only thing that I need to figure out is, who our car insurance is through
there's more just to give ya'll the gist of it. From this and other stuff I read they had a TON of bills that needed paying. All of their utilities were behind as well as Amex CC (how did they qualify for that? living on credit for years!) plus food bills from Sam's Wharehouse, Walmart CC and school pmts, loan pmts to georges mom. ($1,000 monthly just to mom or maybe they were catching up on previous months - don't know but George asked Shellie if she paid off his mom and she said no she just gave her a one month pmt.) Since their income was so low, I'll bet they were transfering balances to new CC's and defering payments for years - this is how they kept their heads just above the water.
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. What are you up to?
SHELLIE: Nothing. Susie and I are just uh, figuring stuff out with the accounts.
there's more boring stuff but they keep talking about susie's account, mom's account, shellie's account and all this money being transferred or put into accounts and boxes. I'm wondering what was the reason for all of this? Did they think they were laundering the money? Did they really think their obvious "code speak" wasn't so....obvious? Did they think no one would listen to the recordings? Is it legal for them to pay off all those bills with that money?
Michelle,
I think about Trayvon all the time. I think about how he felt that night and how scared he was. I think about his girlfriend who was scared for him too and rightly so. I think about his little step brother who probably blames himself for Trayvons death and all his other sibs. I can't help it - it haunts me that they won't get to grow up with him.
It haunts me that an innocent kid doing absolutely nothing wrong gets killed for it by a such loser-thug like GZ. I hope GZ rots in jail. I know he'll rot in hell for this but thats not enough I want him to lose his freedom for a long time, I hope it effects his entire life from this day forward, I hope his wife leaves him and he has nothing when he gets out.
Whew! ok that felt good.....
I feel the same way, Mystical Pippin. I think about Trayvon's older brother going through life without him, having children who won't have the cousins who would have been Trayvon's children. And did you see the photos of Trayvon with his younger cousins? I think the family called them "the bunnies." How must they feel?
I want GZ to be convicted and jailed, too, but I have a bad feeling about the chances of this happening, even with all the evidence against him. It would just take one person who thinks like all those people who are contributing to GZ's defense fund to keep him out of jail.
Mystical> Are you my age? Talk about brutal honesty, I like it.
I am sad for his siblings. It is hard when you lose one or even two. Mostly because you lose the bond and a part of everyone dies with that person. It changes the family.
What really bothers me is the money and how they tried to hide it. It appears to me that Mr. Zimmerman thought he made a healthy pay check for scaring and killing a kid. That is how I see it because of the money hiding. I realize they probably did not have cell phones when you were our age so picture yourself carrying your can on a string talking to your boyfriend/girlfriend and some random man starts following you and chasing you. Can you honestly say you would not be scared? Child molesters are running around everywhere. We are not safe like when you were young. It is hard being a teenager. Adults expect perfection and when we mess up it is thrown in our face.
Here's video that is very interesting and worth some thought:
http://youtu.be/Ujn7_mvdq00
Hi Dave: Happy 4th to you and all your readers!
Here are a couple of links that many might have seen before, but I'll take a chance and add them for anyone who might have missed them.
George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting
This article begins with a brief synopsis as to why and when Mr. Zimmerman began to carry a gun—an encounter with a pit bull named Big Boi in the fall of 2009. Then, it continues on with the neighborhood burglaries which started in June 2011, and the invitation George received from the homeowners association to ‘launch’ a neighborhood watch program.
Quote:
The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol - a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.
End of Quote
It also gives good details on Zimmerman’s background and his work history. It ends with his shooting Trayvon Martin. ب_ب
It is dated April 25, 2012.
Since I’m here, I’ll also add this write-up for anyone who might be interested. (Dated June 27, 2012.)
Zimmerman failed to appear in previous court case, was fined $10,000
In my opinion, it provides a very interesting and understandable outline of the events surrounding the ‘civil case’ that Mr. Zimmerman was/is also embroiled in.
Quote:
"To the extents that courts concern themselves with a client's appearance, missing a noticed or scheduled court proceeding is considered significant," O'Mara said in an e-mail to the Miami Herald. "Missing a deposition, while we don't know why Mr. Zimmerman missed a deposition in a civil case, missing a deposition is not missing a scheduled court proceeding."
End of Quote
I find it 'helpful' to keep in mind the meds Mr. Zimmerman takes on a regular basis as you read these articles. But that's just me. ◔_◔
Thanks Dave it worked....Am saveing email info plus writting it down in my wee book so I dont forget...I hate emergancy shutdowns........
Mystical Pippin ....On the orignal plea for money via therealgzsite...They asked for donations to cover legal and household expensises.So I suppose they were entitled to pay off there debts in there own opinions.Although Im sure people donateing didnt realise money would be used to pay off back debts before this tragedy ocoured.No wonderShellie sound giddy almost in those phone calls saying how this event puts the little things they stressed about in the past in context...I M O the things they stressed about were finances an lack there off an this situation at that time seemed like mana from heaven .Or money from strangers to cure all there woes..Now lets just get this pesky takeing a young mans ;life out the way.So we can have our beutifull life...P S Welcome Michele great to have a young set of eyes on events.....
LOL... wrt to the HOA asking or inviting him to start the NW, the HOA president (had just been appointed or whatever in Sept. 2011) testified to FDLE that he first heard that George was getting signatures to start a neighborhood watch from residents who called him about it.
Kind of ironic that the HOA could be on he hook in a civil suit in light of the fact that they didn't actually propose it and didn't know anything about the guy volunteering to coordinate w/ SPD, be the main point-of-contact, and general go-to guy for the resident's security concerns.
Cherokee - I could not open the video. Can you explain briefly what it is about? TY
"Cherokee - I could not open the video. Can you explain briefly what it is about? TY"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujn7_mvdq00&feature=youtu.be
nymimia, I am not Cherokee, but here is a differnt link. Hope it works for you.
Here is another way that might make those links work:
You Tube Video by LLMPapa - How? Part 3
The poster of that video does not believe that Trayvon was shot while on top of Zimmerman.
His theory makes a lot of sense, but so many witness accounts all mention that Trayvon was on top of George mere seconds before the shot was fired, that it doesn't seem possible for Zimmerman to have had the time to push Trayvon off and move away the suspected distance before firing. (imho)
Please don't misunderstand, folks. I am not a George Zimmerman supporter.
I think I have listened to all the accounts by the eyewitnesses, and the strongest case I can make is that none have indicated that they were watching at the precise time the shot was fired. I believe there are two whose 'statements' have not been released yet--so, I'm hopeful but concerned.
Good to "see" you, Dave!
You know what? If I had killed someone completely in self-defense (even an armed, truly up-to-no-good Bad Guy), I'd be a basket case for weeks. Look at all the cops out there involved in justifiable shootings (suicide-by-cop or hostage situations) who need therapy and time off after. Heck, I know hunters who were more moved and upset by the deer they took than GZ has been with this victim. There doesn't seem to have been a moment's worth of self-evaluation here, no "Man, I wish I'd just said something to that kid." We get him mumbling about Peter Pan instead...
I went over to You Tube last night and that same guy that did the "How?" video has made some other thought-provoking videos regarding George Zimmerman (and his surrogates) accounts of what happened.
Also, here's a link to the surveilance videos from the Retreat at Twin Lakes clubhouse and analysis. The second link was referenced in the Daily Kos diary comments and has even more granular analysis:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/25/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse-w-update
http://imgur.com/a/bcAII
Tenacious-G: Thanks so much for those links--especially the fiirst one. I had been puzzling over those surveillance videos for a few days and that link really helped.
Here is a link to Trayvon's girlfriend's interviews. Her first interview with Mr. Crump is very hard to hear, but the second interview is with Bernie De La Grande and is quite clear. (There is lots of other interesting things at this site, as well.)
Axiom Amnesia - Witness #8 (aka Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend “Dee Dee”)
Here is a link to a picture I am wondering about:
WTF Pictures - Trayvon Martin moments before he was killed by George Zimmerman
The time stamp seems to be off, but it does appear to be around the mailbox area. (Well, maybe.)
(Dave: Sorry about the name of that site. If you don't want me linking that here, please delete it and accept my apologies in advance. I'm just really curious about the picture.)