Through Paranoid Eyes (The Clincher)
Friday, June 29, 2012 at 1:29AM And his own words that are nothing but lies
In the last post, I wrote about the inconsistencies in George Zimmerman’s stories about what transpired the night of the shooting. The following 8 photos are video screen shots taken from his reenactment. Below it will be an overhead view of the location, according to George, of where the fight and gunshot took place.
Approximate area where Trayvon stood according to Zimmerman.
The above photos show George’s reenactment positions during the confrontation. I have several problems with that. One, where was Trayvon hiding? The sidewalk paths are open except for the spindly trees — certainly no place to hide. Two, Trayvon was positioned southeast of George, who said he was heading back to his vehicle. In order for this fight to have occurred where George said, it meant he would have had to go to Trayvon. If it was the other way around, the fight would have taken place where George stood, on the sidewalk heading west. The third problem with the scenario George gave was that Trayvon shouted out to him. I’m not a fighter, but common sense tells me that if I am going to surprise someone with a punch, I am not going to say a word beforehand, which would give my opponent a warning first. I’d hit him and then ask him why he was following me.
Do you understand the problem? George would have to have turned toward Trayvon and walked to him. That’s all there is to it. Of course, there’s one more thing that makes absolutely no sense at all, and one of the commenters, CherokeeNative, brought light to it last night, before I had a chance to put this post up. THIS IS THE CLINCHER. To those of you who don’t read the comments, you can see from the next image why there’s a major, major problem with George’s account of the events the night of February 26. Had George been walking back to his truck like he said he was, from east to west, then why was Trayvon’s body found much farther south?
George must have surprised Trayvon, and that means he was never walking back to his truck from checking house numbers, like he said in his reenactment. Nor was he ever asked by the dispatcher to do such a thing.
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Benjamin Crump, Bernie De la Rionda, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, State Attorney Angela Corey, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 2 References 
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Reader Comments (245)
Newbie~~now that is a 'loaded' question. Do the issuers of the concealed gun permits not verify what is filled in on the applications? Was there a specific question that you think he may have answered falsely? Such as, "have you ever been charged with a past offense?" Hmmmm you are very astute. IMO, if Z lied on the application, it would just tighten the noose a little tighter. I have no idea what questions are on the application??
Dave, we need you for this one!!
Newbie...I just googled Florida Concealed Weapon Permit and you can download an application. I would post it here but it is 48 pages long!
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
48 pages !!!! Thanks for the link....headed there now.
And you know what Cherokee?I think that O'Mara knows that Travon was no thug. He appears to have grown up in a very loving home and I THINK that he was a decent student too. But I do not think that OMara cares about that so much as the need to sell that thug imagine to the jury pool and public. how ironic that he says he will not try this case in public but not only is he trying the case in public, he is misleading the public into believing that Travon was some thug. This reminds me of certain defense attorneys when it comes to rape victims where the object becomes to make the woman a despicable whore.
Snoopy
It is pretty childish to write garbage like this and not expect people to refute it
"Since the identity of the donors to the Zimmerman defense fund remain anonymous, we do not know if they are white, black or Hispanic. Who knows, half of them may be French Canadians. So how can we infer that by soliciting donations, O'Mara is creating racism? Have we forgot that the majority of the people donating to the Z fund may very well be slap happy gun owners?
For the record and please read carefully. No on is accusing O'mara of -creating- racism, what is being said is O"Mara is [emphasis added] EXPLOITING EXISTING RACISM which is already out there. Do you understand the difference?
I think that is is pretty silly to suggest that the Zimmerman is getting any significant amount of support from the African American community. I just do not understand why you chose to even put this stuff out there.
Cherokee, I see your point. And you are certainly right that this kind of comment had no place in a bond hearing!
Did BDLR really say those things at the hearing? Good for him! It must have been fun to watch.
Porky, It is hard for me to understand the mentality of someone who considers GZ' fund worthy of support. I believe that he deserves a fair trial, I am glad that he has a competent attorney, but treating him like a hero is beyond the pale. The mentality of his supporters is on display in the comment section of any online article about this case. I avoid reading too many of these comments, it lead to despair.
Why would anyone contribute money to GZ, rather than to one of the many good causes that are out there? My personal favorite is Partners in Health, Paul Farmer's organization. I've been supporting it for years, ever since I read Mountains Beyond Mountains.
I seem to be drifting off topic. Good-night, all!
Thanks Molly. Yes, BLDR did say that - he told the Court that the prosecution welcomed a SYG motion or trial - He even took it one step further and said that none of GZ's statements or reenactment video could be relied upon by the Defendant unless the prosecution offered it into evidence - meaning that in order to make his self-defense claims, GZ would have to testify. I suspect that what the prosecution will do is hold off on offering GZ's video taped statements and the reenactment into evidence, thereby forcing GZ to testify. Once GZ testifies, the prosecution will offer up the video taped statements and reenactment to show the court/jury GZ many discrepancies. If you watch the video of the 2nd bond hearing held on June 29th, I believe it is at 2:40 that BDLR begins his argument to the Court wherein he states the above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf450_v2Rxw&feature=player_embedded#
George Zimmerman's Bail Hearing Closing Arguments 06/29/12
@ Porky - What is concerning about this issue is this - why must everything that you or I comment on be criticized? Dave doesn't seem to have that kind of problem and he has always appeared to be open to hearing both sides to a controvery; in fact, we often agree. So, why the attempt to censor? It is a constant dare or challenge when it is not necessary. Alas, I will chock it off as insecurity and try to ignore it.
Dave~~this is against my better judgement but, if you read the comments directed to me, you may understand why I am about to write the following..
Porky3100,( no conduit necessary), you have been nit picking my comments for quite some time now and I have tried my best to not fall into your entrapment, yes ENTRAPMENT. You may call me paranoid but your insults are not going unnoticed by others who have contacted me so as to keep if off the blog.
I do not see Mark O'Mara creating or, after your nit picking, EXPLOITING EXISTING RACISM. At no time have I heard Mark O'Mara make any reference to Trayvon as being a thug. These are things you are manifesting in your own mind. You are the one who is constantly bringing up the race issue. You are contributing to keeping racism in existence. If I were to judge black people on your remarks to me, then I would qualify as being a racist. I am starting to come to the conclusion that you are a racist.
Now, are you satisfied? I am sure you will sleep well tonight.
Dave, you may rest assured that if I continue to comment here, I will not reference any comments made by Porky
Cherokee~ ~ I do not put it down to insecurity. Keep in mind that I am one of Dave's bitches. Yes, it is best that you ignore me and in that way, I can do likewise.
Ahh so now we have others complaining about me to Snoopy. That is so third grade that is it not even funny. I mean I could go get some of my buddies ti complain about you too.
Me a racist? That make me chuckle. Please grow up.
Oh, so you can speak in the present person. This is a good start Snoopy. Keep striving and things will get easier, I am sure. You can refer to yourself however you wish - I will keep my opinions in that regard to myself at this point. But don't push it -k?
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INTELLIGENCE AND COMMON SENSE
On the front page, above all posts, is a quote from the late Rodney King. It's written in tiny print, but I put it there - WEEKS AGO - for a reason. Here's a guy who was clearly a victim of racism and police brutality. In 8 simple words, he said it all... "CAN WE ALL JUST AGREE TO GET ALONG?"
Well, no, I guess we can't. Poor Rodney, with all of his troubles, had the wisdom to make a statement like that. Go figure. And here we are, a group of otherwise civil adults who can't seem to stop nitpicking.
Here's the deal. I'm not going to take sides because we just don't know who is right and who is wrong regarding this unfortunate situation that ended in death. Was Zimmerman a racist? How about his attorney? I know Mark O'Mara personally and one thing is clear, he is not a racist and he never called Trayvon a thug. He's way too classy to do that. Zimmerman should count his lucky stars that he ended up with such a well-respected attorney. As for Zimmerman, it will be up to the court system to prove or disprove anything. We can argue until the cows come home - yes, black and white cows - and never find a real and true answer. So why fight with each other?
From now on, if you disagree with what another commenter has to say, be civil about it. DON'T NITPICK! Some here have drawn battle lines and I want no part of it. I want to look at everyone as a friend, even if I disagree with you and vice versa. We must respect each others' opinions and refrain from throwing pitch forks at one another.
I've gotten a lot of e-mails since I began writing about this case. Mostly, they have been positive. People like to read intelligent views. They can formulate ideas based on the many angles presented on this blog. I strongly agree and encourage the back and forth. Unfortunately, some of those e-mails have been critical of late. People can't stand the bickering they have to weed through to get to the heart of the discussions. Sadly, they are telling me the problem is discouraging them from reading here and I cannot allow that to happen.
The bottom line is this. Do I agree with Snoopy all the time? Of course not, and God knows how many times we've locked horns over the years, but one thing is certain. She has been a tremendous help to me on this blog, and she is much more than just a commenter. She is my right-hand woman. Now, don't miscontrue this as an edict that I am going to defend her each time there's a disruption concerning her. Believe me, she is fully capable of taking care of herself, only I don't want it coming down to that. I don't want it coming down to that between anyone who chooses to comment. I don't want anyone to cringe in fear that a few will gang up on them. That drives people away and it goes totally against the grain of this blog.
I'm going to say it again. Please be civil to one another. You don't have to agree, but please answer these simple questions. When invited to someone's home, would you dare start a fight among yourselves? Would you dare disrespect the host enough to do that?
From now on, at the first sign of blood - and notice I didn't say trouble - I will turn the comment thread off until I determine what transpired. I have a comment filter that acts just like a mute button on a remote and I won't be afraid to use it. Remember that everyone is welcome here, but I am a passive person and I cringe at this sort of cheap, trashy infighting and side-taking. As far as I'm concerned, my articles are about Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman. Those are the only two people you should directly write about. Keep your personal thoughts about other commenters to yourself. Every time you are tempted, think about what Rodney King said.
Thank you Dave. I believe I have tried to hold to your wishes. Unfortunately it appears that everytime I comment, Snoopy feels the need to ridicule my comment while using you as her conduit. Her posts have been both disrespectful and extremely rude. Everyone is entitled to their own opinioin; however, Snoopy seems to think she has some granted right to censor that opinion by twisting the author's words or meaning. This is when the problems begin and I suspect they will continue until you, yes you, tell Snoopy to cool her jets and let people voice their opinions without twisting their words or ridiculing their opinions. It's really that simple.
Read back through the comments Dave - you will see that it is not I who has called Snoopy out. It was only after the repeated comments from her, using you as her conduit, that I finallly responded in a like manner - and I responded respectfully I might add - it was Snoopy who resorted to "names" and even then, I refused to resort to personal attacks.
I too have had the opportunity to speak with people who have come to participate in your blog, but in fact, they have expressed the same problem - they have found it difficult because Snoopy is making it impossible for whomever disagrees with her to feel comfortable posting and it appears that is why there are only the few repeat posters - which begs the question, why? I believe there are many, including myself, who have lots to offer to your blog - but your refusal to address the conduct of your "right-hand woman" is hindering our meaningful participation.
Now that all has been said that needs to be said, I hope future personal conflicts,if any, are taken to Open Forum. It is one thing to go off the subject of the Post but another to use it to zing each other.
I don't comment much as most of what I would say has already been covered. Well, I also get stuck on one thing....like why GZ was able to get a carry/conceal permit or even a gun with his previous charges of assault and domestic battery.
Looking forward to future comments and Posts !
Newbie, that's what I'd like to know as well. Someone posted (here or somewhere else, I'm not sure) that the concealed carry permit application is many pages long. I wonder what questions were asked. If anyone should have been prevented from carrying a gun, it was GZ. There must be a reason that, at age 28, he has not become a police officer, and I would be willing to bet that the reason is that he applied to more than one force and was rejected. I'm sure that all departments go to great lengths to screen out people like GZ. Can you believe that, in his written statement, he referred to Trayvon as the "suspect"? Even if someone broke into my house and ran off with my sterling tea service that I wish I had, it would never occur to me to refer to that person as a "suspect." Not normal language or normal thinking.
MollyK, it was said the application was forty-eight pages. I haven't looked at the application as yet due to finding information on how the domestic battery and the assault charges were handled under Florida's laws and Federal law. To even buy a gun you cannot have either charges under Federal law. The problem is that GZ's cases are listed as "closed" which I assume mean there was no hearing or order issued from that hearing and the laws refer to a person having an Order from the Court after the hearing. At least, that is my understanding of what I read. So....
Molly - here is the link to the FDACS, Division of Licensing, which provides the application for obtaining a CWP:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
One more thought... The US Supreme Court upheld the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, otherwise known as Obamacare. With this in mind, I will ask each and every one of you to take a big step back and reassess everything. I will ask you to toss out the old and start anew. Just like the healthcare law mandates, throw away all of your pre-existing conditions; all of your conceptions of everyone here. Aside from disagreements over basic ideals, I'll bet that many of you could become friends. Trust me, I saw it happen time and time again during the three years I wrote about the Casey Anthony case. Believe me when I say I've seen it all, and surprises come with each passing day. Seize the opportunities!
Oh, I sure agree with you as to GZ's presentations and language such as "suspect". GZ had just killed a child and hasn't really shown any remorse and seems to stay in house own little world of "I am John Wayne" or as someone suggested "James Bond".
Newbie and Molly - GZ's prior assault charge ended up with him being sentenced to a pretrial-diversion program. Rather than find the person guilty, the judge withholds adjudication for a certain period of time, and places the defendant under certain restrictions similar to being on probation. If the individual complies with the terms and conditions of the pretrial diversion agreement, then at the end of the time period the charges are dismissed and the person is not convicted of the crime. This enables someone who made a one-time stupid mistake to get another chance at life with a clean record.
However, if the defendant violates the terms of the deferred prosecution agreement, then he or she will be brought back to court for a sentencing hearing. Common ways a person could violate the program include getting a new arrest, failing a drug test, or failing to complete a court-ordered treatment program. Because the person already entered a guilty plea to the charge, he or she no longer has the right to go to trial on the case. Thus, if the judge determines that the defendant failed to complete the pretrial intervention program, then the defendant will be convicted and sentenced for the crime.
Pretrial diversion is a great way to keep a one-time mistake from ruining a person's life with a criminal conviction. Anyone who gets arrested, does not have a criminal history, and does not want to go to trial should ask about entering pretrial diversion.
In some states, even though you have entered into a pretrial diversion program, you must still report this fact on certain state applications. I do not know what Florida's law is in that regard. No matter, it would continue to show up on Criminal History Reports to LE agencies, military, and the DOJ.
Dave, with all due respect to your desire that everyone make nice - I believe the problem is a continuing one to the extent that Snoopy has the need to challenge everyone's opinions - until this issue is resolved, i.e., it stops - it will be difficult to form any type of relationship. It is one thing to disagree with one's opinion on the interpretation of the facts, and have a healthy discussion; however, when it is twisting the author's words, ridiculing, or otherwise challenging, there is no good that can possibly come from it. You are the only one that can resolve that problem. Just sayin...
Snoopy sez:
"I do not see Mark O'Mara creating or, after your nit picking, EXPLOITING EXISTING RACISM. At no time have I heard Mark O'Mara make any reference to Trayvon as being a thug. These are things you are manifesting in your own mind. You are the one who is constantly bringing up the race issue. You are contributing to keeping racism in existence. If I were to judge black people on your remarks to me, then I would qualify as being a racist. I am starting to come to the conclusion that you are a racist. "
ITA! And, yes, Porky loves to play the damn race card at every turn. He looks under the rocks and he finds racism. Every little nuance and he finds racism.What a tool and, yes, what a closet racist, too.Love that race card, eh, Porky?
And therein lies your problem Dave.
Dave,
You are my friend but I must say that I am very disappointed in the way that this was handled. Make no mistake about it, the material content of your posts are second to none, and I have conveyed that to you many times.
Speaking only for myself, I can say that I do not have anything personal against Snoopy and had friended her on Facebook. I think that alone should address any concerns of personal dislike.
But Snoopy has some habits that I feel are counterproductive to serious discourse. 1. She at times will post opinions with faulty logic and other posts and inaccurate. I feel that when asked to verify, confirm or at least provide a source of the inaccuracies, she places that brick wall of defensiveness which is almost always accompanied with a snide remark.
Then some of hr posts have cheap shots at people embedded with in an otherwise legitimate post.
But I ask you Dave, what am I to do when one posts something that I disagree with? Sit in silence because they will complain to you? How is that fair?
It does concern me that not even 2 days ago Snoopy ( in another veiled cheap shot complained that people were emailing her about me and coincidentally now you are stating that you are receiving emailed complaints. I did not know a single member of this forum prior to coming here and I know that some people knew each other already and have formed bonds. So when you state that people are complaining to you and Snoopy states the people are emailing her, I know one thing. No one has emailed me, so if these same people who emailed Snoopy and emailing you AND form the tone of your post, it really looks like behind the scenes stuff.
Speaking of taking sides Dave. I never said that O'Mara was a racist, what I did say was he is exploiting the racist attitudes of those who support Zimmernan because of preconceived attitudes about Blacks. But I'm not the only one who though that. A number of TV journalists said exactly the same thing during the televised hearing. Namely that he went too far.
As for Snoopy, she tosses your name around as though it wields power. In a way she is smart to do so, at least in this case because it appears that it paid off. Snoopy flat out called me a racist but your long post did not address this.
You are my friend and I appreciate the opportunity to be here but I must say that I am -deeply-disssapointed and very much personally offended.
At the end of the day, I get the feeling that when Snoopy posts misfacts or misstatements, that there is an expectation to thread lightly.
Bravo
Now I guess it is my turn... How can I censor or twist peoples words if I do not copy and paste (quote) their comments? If I voice a different opinion than theirs, why is that being misconstued as censoring or twisting their words? It is my opinon....they voiced theirs. We both have that right.
Here just an example of what transpires in here... I will let you be the judge in who was trying to provoke.
(I was the one who said that Dave had mentioned that he did not want to bring racial issues into the discussion. You can read the comments that followed mine...they are back on another page)
Ecossie~ ~ I agree that W#9 does not have any qualifications to make an assessment that Z was/is a racists. The defense can argue that W#9 just had an axe to grind. Concrete evidence would be needed to prove that Zimmerman said he did not like black people or that every black youth wearing a hoodie was a hoodlum. If Z was badmouthing Mexicans, it does not prove that he was/is against blacks or other races.
June 29, 2012 | SnoopySleuth
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Re Snoop...
...As if there is some certification agency that one goes to to be certified as a racism detector...lmao!
Well, I am a certified BS detector, and I say you are piling it on pretty thick, just like O'mara!
June 29, 2012 | MHaven
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MHaven~ ~if you are putting me in a league with Mark O'Mara Esq, then I take that as a compliment so thank you.
June 29, 2012 | SnoopySleuth
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Re Snoop..
Only in the bullshitting category.. So, you're welcome!
June 29, 2012 | MHaven
Porky3100, what's your email address....?? Probably not a good time for a bad joke but there it is.
Maybe all of this can be worked out at Open Forum. Truthfully, I don't come here to read zings, problems between commenters and so on and so on. Not making light of the personal disagreements ....just coming to this blog for thoughts and information without strife. I know I have the option to just skip over some comments but also know I won't keep returning if it all continues.
Newbie
My pleasure. Please feel free to email me at henderson3100@cfl.rr.com
Newbie~~I was making a comment in Open Forum and noticed that it was continuing here so I pasted my comment in here.
This will be my last comment for awhile. I have been down this road before when people were jealous of me helping Dave. Once bitten, twice shy.
I can understand why Valhall closed down the Zimmerman thread before she pulled the plug for good. I also noticed that the Z thread at RC was suspended until people decided to clean up their act. I never ever commented at either of those blogs.
So you will stop putting the pressure on Dave to ban me, I am making my exit.
It is sad when there are some who, when you disagree with what they say, want you ousted. Well, I am going to make your day.
Dave, this is a classic example of Snoopy "twisting" words. Below is my comment to Porky's post. Following that is Snoopy's third person comment. As you can clearly recognize, Snoopy has twisted my comment to indicate that I have claimed that O'Mara's legal defense fund is somehow illegal. How or where she pulled that out of her ass, I have no idea - but it is a classic example of the ongoing remarks that we all find irritating.
Hear Ye Hear Ye Porky !! MOM's suggestion in Court Friday that Trayvon somehow deserved to die because he was defending himself against a paranoid wanna-be cop was about as low as Baez accusing GA of molesting CA when all of the evidence points otherwise. O'Mara's tactic of basically stating in Court that Trayvon brought it upon himself was, I suspect, his attempt to energize GZ's fan base. He was pandering to a certain demographic. To the extent that he used victim-blaming is disgusting. A child has died and O'Mara is trying to make something sinister out of a kid walking home slowly while talking on the phone. Trayvon was standing his ground that evening. To say that he wasn't flies in the face of the facts: Trayvon was in danger and fell over dead as proof. The problem, at this point, that I have with O'Mara is his having made a production out of proclaiming this case shouldn't be tried in the media, and then he proceeds to do exactly that, all the while mentioning how helpful more donations would be. At Friday's hearing, O'Mara failed miserably by simply relitigated weight of evidence against GZ, without offering any mitigating evidence concerning the fraud that was committed by his client upon the Court. He could have done that without blaming the victim. It was a new low IMO.
O'Mara gave a little shout out prior to the hearing Friday - Here is what O'Mara posted on his "GZLegalCase" before the hearing Friday:
"Tomorrow is a big day for the case. The bond hearing begins at 9:30. We'll give you updates from the court room. Now is an appropriate time to show your support for George."
$$$$$how it in what way may I ask?
July 1, 2012 | CherokeeNative
Dave~~it is not illegal to create a defense fund. What a good move on O'Mara's part to solicit donations. Look at the money Mark is saving the taxpayers of Seminole County. So should we be lauding O'Mara brilliance or bemoaning about all the tax dollars spent in trying this case if Z were indigent. BTW, some tweets were going out via the defense to keep the public informed of the proceedings at the bond hearing.
July 1, 2012 | SnoopySleuth
I might also call to your attention to an earlier instance when Snoopy decided that one of my comments was some how representing that O'Mara was unethical and/or dishonest when I never stated such a thing. It involved my comment that defense attorneys often times tell their client that they do not want to know certain facts concerning a case - because to have knowledge could place them in conflict with their duties as officers of the Court at some future time during the case. This is an absolute truth that I have witnessed on many ocassions in my 35+ years working in the legal field. This is just a few of the many examples of what Snoopy is doing.
Now, your response to this may be to close the thread - but I hope that for once and for all you will not do that and actually deal with the problem. It will not go away.
As for the issue of discussing race in this case - it is what it is - should we avoid discussing any issue that is controversial just because one person is hypersensitive and unable to read words exactly as they are printed? We are all supposed to be adults here on this forum and I offer that we are intelligent enough to know when we are crossing the line or not. Porky is one of the most well versed and politically correct commenters you have on this forum. Each time an argument has arisen concern "race" involving Porky, it has been because someone twisted or misconstrued his comment. He cannot control another person's mind or thought processes.
Bottom line is Snoopy needs to quite trying to censor others' opinions and you need to make sure that she does.
"This will be my last comment for awhile. I have been down this road before when people were jealous of me helping Dave. Once bitten, twice shy. "
My point.....
I can understand why Valhall closed down the Zimmerman thread before she pulled the plug for good. I also noticed that the Z thread at RC was suspended until people decided to clean up their act. I never ever commented at either of those blogs.
Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Unbelievable.
I figured you might do that Porky......lol !
Now, who has figured what out something new about the GZ case?
Well Newbie - the new connumdrum (sp) is how the bullet entered GZ's chest from front to back without any angle when GZ was supposedly shooting it from a prone position. According to some, it is physically impossible.
Snoopy sez:
"I do not see Mark O'Mara creating or, after your nit picking, EXPLOITING EXISTING RACISM. At no time have I heard Mark O'Mara make any reference to Trayvon as being a thug. These are things you are manifesting in your own mind. You are the one who is constantly bringing up the race issue. You are contributing to keeping racism in existence. If I were to judge black people on your remarks to me, then I would qualify as being a racist. I am starting to come to the conclusion that you are a racist. "
ITA! And, yes, Porky loves to play the damn race card at every turn. He looks under the rocks and he finds racism. Every little nuance and he finds racism.What a tool and, yes, what a closet racist, too.Love that race card, eh, Porky?
I'm not your problem Dave. Stuff like the above is.
Thank you CherokeeNation. I also would like to know just how GZ managed to get his gun out of the holster under the circumstances he puts forth. It just didn't happen ...physically impossible in my mind.
Does anyone know what they found on TM's cell phone? I suppose it is way too much to wish for.....but, a picture or two would be nice...lol.
I agree with Porky and Cherokee that perfectly reasonable comments of their have been jumped on and twisted. I like this site very much and hope that we can all continue to post here. Everyone has valuable comments to contribute.
Although O'Mara may be a fine lawyer and a fine person, I think that he has crossed the line in terms of exploiting the racism which is motivating at least some of GZ's supporters. We can all do the thought experiment of turning Trayvon into a blue-eyed Caucasian and imagining how this case would have been handled and how people would have responded. There are plenty of people in our society who view a young black man as expendable. I would not go so far as to call O'Mara a racist, and I think that calling Porky a racist is really beyond the pale.
Cherokee and Newbie, I have read quite a bit of speculation that the gun shop owners and shooting range owners on the witness list are expected to testify about issues such as whether or not GZ could have pulled his gun from the holster as described, whether he shoots right- or left-handed, whether he could have positioned the gun in such a way as to cause the level trajectory.
Dave, I am going to say one last thing and then I am done with this. I know you would like this blog to be a give and take, with everyone acting like adults.
When I came in and read that some were reporting the TM had punched a bus driver, I ask Snoopy to provide a link....her response was "google it" (paraphrased). I took it that she had no time to bother with me or my questions. How is that a good response or representation of your blog from your "right hand woman"? I have always found YOU to be helpful and accomodating, Snoopy, not so much.
I used to post and read here all during the CA trial and thought I would come back to see your take on GZ and the mess that is his trial. Unfortunately, I found the same people doing the same bullying if anyone dares to disagree with them.
Everyone has a valid opinion and the right to voice that opinion without grief from others. If you say something other than an opinion, you need to have the facts to back it up.
So, I would imagine I will take a blasting for this post, and that's not a problem. I can take it. But I will not tolerate being treated rudely or watching others being demeaned. I absolutely will not watch as my friends are accused of being racist. That is not acceptable and I want no part of aything or anyone that thinks it is.
In closing, you may not see me back here commenting. I may read and comment if and when the problems are addressed. And you do have more than one problem that needs to be addressed.
Molly - I was hoping that was why the gunshop owners were on the prosecutions witness list. I have seen some very credible sites where the theory is that GZ had to have shot Trayvon in a standing position, If this is true and the experts can show how it is impossible to have shot Trayvon as described by GZ - well, GZ is going down for a life term - and I can't think of a better scenario. The Martin family will be vindicated at least.
Newbie - We are all waiting for the release of GZ's and Trayvon's phone records, but as I recall, O'Mara (and the prosecution?) has objected to the release of those records. I believe that is partly what was argued at the hearing on June 29th were the release of various records that were objected to - but I honestly did not pay attention to that particular part of the hearing - I was too interested in the Bond portion of the hearing. LOL
Cherokee and others,
Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi3YlWBw7w&feature=player_embedded
and others posted by this person, like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMZJOEYKc10&feature=plcp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IuFE5zd_2s&feature=context-chv
Great video finds, MollyK! I may want to contact the person who created them and put them up on their own blog post. Thank you!
I'm so glad you like them, Dave! They were posted on Firedoglake in comments under masoninblue's posts. He is a lawyer who has posted some brilliant analyses of this case, as you have. This person is able to demonstrate his points so clearly, and the music is absolutely appropriate for this tragedy.
Yes, Molly, I agree, he is doing some fantastic work, and thank you for appreciating my posts, as well. Speaking of which, I have a few more posts up my sleeves and I hope to have a new one published tomorrow. BTW, I am a real classical music aficionado.
I imagine GZ must find this situation surreal. He thought that he could just claim self-defense, and that would be the end of it. Initially, there were no charges. (It is not clear to me whether or not the police were still investigating.) Then, as a result of Trayvon's parents' activism, the case became a national cause. Now he has dozens of people around the country analyzing his every word and action and debating the case.
I wonder whether the prosectors/investigators follow any of this?
Hello. I've not posted here before, but have read your site since Treyvon's case began. Dave, you are a sensible, honest writer and barring details, my conclusions reflect yours.
I just want to comment briefly about the ongoing sniping. I fled earlier when Dave was briefly gone and things got out of hand. I tiptoed back in, but with little interest in posting because I am internet "shy" and don't like being sniped at. When it happens, I immediately retreat, usually for good. I do not believe I am the only one that feels this way. When something like this is consistantly happening in a group of people, there is always a lightening rod. This is the energy that grabs the electricity out of the air, and instead of grounding it, flings it back at the group. It needs more grounding.
We are all waiting for the bond verdict. We're all on edge. Things again flared up here at this blog. It's too bad because there is a lot that could be discussed. Dave has written a provocative post. I personally would like to see more about the trajectory of the gunshot and explore the idea that the distance to Treyvon's clothing was close range, but to his body was intermediate range. George stated in interview 2 with Serino that he got hold of Treyvon's wrist. This puts a gun in one hand and a wrist in the other. He could have been pulling Treyvon's clothing toward him. He had Treyvon subdued. They very likely were standing. I believe this is what the police and the prosecution believe. If this is what happened, I want to see George pay.
Snoopy really needs to learn how to censor herself. I know I'm inviting a response, and perhaps a snappy one. I don't deserve it just for speaking. I'll see how this goes.
Dave, I'll look forward to your new post. I love classical music, too, although I can't claim to have enough knowledge to be an afficionado. I'm learning more and more, though, because my younger son was somehow born with a burning passion for the piano and he is quite accomplished.
[That's great about your son, Molly! I sure hope he keeps it up. What a gift!]
Marilyn, That is a horrifying scenario, but somehow it is consistent with those heart-rending screams. I think that I read somewhere, after the forensic reports were released, that there was a possibility that the clothing was separated from the body by a few inches. I don't know anything about forensics so was not able to follow the discussion about stippling, etc.