Through Paranoid Eyes
Monday, June 25, 2012 at 4:00PM I don’t know if it’s just me? Or if anyone else noticed it, too? It seems that George Zimmerman likes to end his verbal discussions on a high note. By that, I don’t mean positive. He ends his sentences like he’s asking a question. He turned here? He walked over there? I lost sight of him? It sounds as if he’s not sure of himself and he’s subconsciously asking for a vote of confidence or a pat on the back or redemption or justification or something. I don’t know. Maybe, it’s just me, but I noticed something else that connects with it. Beginning with his written statement to police and in every subsequent explanation he’s given to date, he starts each account of the night of February 26 with an excuse for why he shot Trayvon Martin.
“In August of 2011, my neighbor’s house was broken into…” Most of the first page of the Sanford Police Department Narrative Report is dedicated to the past, not the present. Tell us what happened on this night, George, not about last August. Does he always think this way or is he seeking atonement for what he had done?
(Before I go further into my own assessment, let me say that, until some sort of confrontation took place, George was well within his right to get out of his car and walk around the neighborhood for whatever reason. He broke no laws, but was it the prudent thing to do? That’s another issue altogether. If he wanted to be a hero that night, there was nothing in the world to stop him. Not even his own better judgement, if such a thing exists. The law was on his side going into it.)
I’m going to look at the video reenactment of the night and compare it with the phone call to the SPD dispatcher. Right up front, I’ll tell you I don’t put much faith in George’s account of events. I base this not on bias or prejudice, but on George’s own words to investigators and the dispatcher, plus photographic evidence taken the night of the shooting.
At the onset of the video, George is shown leaving his home at 1950 Retreat View Circle, where he travels north and spots Trayvon at the first bend in the street, curving to the right. He said he was on his way to the grocery store. Certainly, I can understand his suspicion because of other break-ins in the neighborhood, and here was someone, a person, he was not familiar with. Interestingly, in a subsequent interview with police, he stated that he was aware of everyone living in that complex.
As Trayvon walked east, after entering an unorthodox, but commonly used entrance, George continued driving ever so slowly, keeping a watchful eye on his prey. He noted, in great detail — and despite suffering from ADHD — every move his suspect made, even though sunset came at 6:23 pm that day. Sanford police logs showed his call began at 7:09:34 pm, 46 minutes into darkness. Granted, lights and rainy reflections from streets and porches may have impacted what he saw, but it was a far cry from daylight. George slowly passed the boy and pulled into a parking spot in front of the clubhouse, where he called the dispatcher on the non-emergency number. At this time, Trayvon was across the street, behind him. Of course, it’s only common sense that, until I pass you, I am following you. Once I pass you, you are following me.
It’s important to note that, throughout the police call, George had nothing but negative things to say about Trayvon. Something’s wrong with him. He’s on drugs or something. He’s up to no good.
At nearly one minute into the call, George said, “… now he’s coming toward me,” and, “Yup, he’s coming to check me out…”
Trayvon kept walking and went past George and the clubhouse, turning right on Twin Trees. “These assholes always get away,” George reacted as he lost sight of the boy. This is where he goes after Trayvon again by following him in his truck. At 2:09 minutes into the phone call, he exited the vehicle without provocation from the dispatcher. In other words, the dispatcher did not ask him to do anything, and that included no request for an address.
On the video reenactment, George stated that the dispatcher asked him if he could go somewhere where he can see him. Not true! The dispatcher made no such request. He also told the detective (during the reenactment) that Trayvon went around the back of the townhouses, away from view, and returned to circle his vehicle. He also said that he told the dispatcher of this move during the phone call.
He told the dispatcher no such thing. There was nothing said about circling his vehicle. Instead, during the phone call, you can hear George’s heavy breathing and the wind in the phone, indicative of someone running. He was chasing after the boy. Up to this point, no word was said on the phone about finding a street name or building number.
The dispatcher asked him, “Are you following him?”
He responded, “Yeah.”
The dispatcher advised him that, “OK, we don’t need you to do that!” By the way, I did speak with the supervisor of dispatchers with Seminole County and she told me it is strictly advice. George was under no legal obligation to obey the directive.
“OK,” George said, but you could still hear the wind in his phone. Moments later, he told the dispatcher that his suspect ran. He lost him! But it was quite evident he was still searching. The dispatcher then asked George for his name and where the police, now on their way, would find him. Would he be near his truck? When asked where his truck was parked, George wasn’t sure of the address. The dispatcher offered a solution. What about in front of the mailboxes, alongside the clubhouse? George agreed, but in the end, he wanted no part of that, because he interrupted the dispatcher. “Actually, could you have them [the police] call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?”
“Okay, yeah, that’s no problem.” Little did the dispatcher know that this was George’s cue to continue his search. At no time did the dispatcher ask him for a physical address.
During the reenactment, however, he told a completely different story. In the video, he said the dispatcher asked him, “Where did he go, which direction did he go in?”
George answered, “I don’t know, I lost… ‘cause he cut down here and made a right. I guess it’s TWIN TREES LANE.” He goes on to say the dispatcher asked him if he could see the boy. He said he couldn’t. He claimed the dispatcher asked him to get somewhere where he could see him, but that’s not true. He was asked no such thing. Instead of backing out of the clubhouse spot like he told the detective on the video, in reality, George was desperately seeking Trayvon. And he knew the name of the street he turned on.
CLICK MAP TO ENLARGE
George Zimmerman Police Call w. Time Stamps and Notes
George Zimmerman video reenactment
END OF PART 1
In the second part, I will explore the shooting. How close to the truth was George?
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Reader Comments (80)
Dave~~excellent post!!
I am so baffled now when trying to make some sense out of this case, it would be easier to pick fly doo doo out of pepper.
Zimmerman's reenactment does not coincide with the call to non-emerg 911. I wouldn't expect him to remember every exact word verbatim but there is too much embellishing. I read an analysis on Trayvon's girlfriend, Dee's interviews. Her interview with Crump and then De La Rionda were inconsistent. I cannot see the state calling her to testify because I would not take the chance of what she may say.
Then we have the eye/ear witnesses, four of which, added or subtracted or both, to their recollections.
It appears that after Zimmerman consulted with his father and the rest of the witnesses watched the case on TV or read about it online, their stories all changed.
This whole case was 'tainted' by the media from the getgo, thanks to NBC's edits to 911 and the 'f***ing coons' etc etc etc... It instilled in some of us that Z was/is a racist, wanna be cop who wanted to make Neighborhood Watch and Sanford PD proud of him. Trayvon was a perfect teenager who was profiled.
I am finding it difficult to follow this case as there is no black and white. It is all gray. I could say a lot more but am not in the mood to dodge any spitballs.
P.S. I would like to take Frank Taaffee and Ben Crump and put them in a boxing ring........grrrrrrrrr!!
okay..........Snoopy is ducking..........bye
I don't see why you should be ducking. Yes, the accounts have been inconsistent, but I must say I have not seen any real reporting on what Trayvon's girlfriend said, and most certainly, nothing about her inconsistencies. However...
The real problem I see is with Zimmerman's accounts of what transpired. Because he is the only survivor and the people, meaning the court system and us, are supposed to take his word for what came down, he'd better get his story straight. He's going on trial here, not Dee Dee or anyone else. His future rests in his own words, not hers. If he comes across as a liar - God forbid! - he will have some bad news. What I wrote probably has something to do with why he was charged. His stories weren't adding up.
Hey, thanks, I'm glad you like the post. I'll bet you O'Mara is quite aware of his client's differing accounts of what came down that night and it's got to be a nightmare to some degree.
Dave~~we are like fire and gasoline for sure!!
(I will not write what I think you and others want to read)
Has anyone taken the time to ponder....did Trayvon ambush Zimmerman because he was pizzed off at being followed?
Has anyone considered that T was not an angel and punched a bus driver, smoked weed ( being a minor) and coached fist fights with his peers?
Thank God, in a court of law, we have both a prosecution and a DEFENSE to present the evidence.
If anyone makes the least hint that maybe Z was justified in standing his ground, we get stomped on.
Dee's account at the trial will be relevant if they decide to put her on the stand. I have heard over and over that Trayvon is dead and some of us are trying to find out why he ended up with a bullet in his chest. I will not dishonor the dead but may discuss issues regarding them. If we want to find the truth, it is impossible to look at only one side and be afraid that we may be ruining someone's reputation!
Anything stated above may be hearsay, untruths or whatever but none are my own personal beliefs for the simple reason I just don't know what the truth is. In the meantime, I would like to feel free to be able to look at both sides of the coin as an impartial observer.
P.S. I do know that Zimmerman and his wife deliberately hid funds so the court would be unaware of their true financial status. Shellie Zimmerman perjured herself before Judge Lester. Now that is one fact that I am sure of!!
I wrote what the differences were between two of Zimmerman's accounts. TWO, mind you. He gave more than that. What you or anyone else chooses to believe is up to you, but these descriptions of the night's events came from one person, not two. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Take it or leave it. Had Trayvon been alive to give his account, I may be picking on his story, too. In any event, Trayvon had no criminal record and what you stated about him will not be allowed in court. What George Zimmerman said will be, and it will be ripped apart by the state.
If you think this is something, just wait until Part 2, only remember, these are HIS words, not anyone else's. And, of course, your opinion is as important as everyone's.
Dave~~ I quote you..."In any event, Trayvon had no criminal record and what you stated about him will not be allowed in court."
In other words, we shall not discuss anything, in here, that may show the mindset of the characters involved in this case.
We can only comment on things that are not pro Zimmerman.
Gotcha !
sarcastic retorts are as good as spit balls....here's a few back at cha..........
We can comment on anything, but just remember, George is a big boy and he can defend himself. Trayvon is dead. I haven't even gotten to the meaty part yet. This post is not about bad ass Trayvon whoopin' up on poor little Georgie yet. Just wait... it's a'comin'!
In George's own words.
Dave~~ when I comment, I realize that I make your day. Here ya go hon, pick away...
BTW, how do you know that Z's future may not be decided on Dee's words, if she takes the stand? You must have a crystal ball eh?
So we can discuss anything....wowsers!
DeeDee’s account: summary and discussion
[I like that writer! He's very good, and I agree with him about DeeDee. But how can anyone look at George's changing stories with indifference; almost matter of factly because it's expected, yet approach DeeDee's with disdain? In my opinion, DeeDee's testimony won't matter because George is doing it to himself.
There are people who make up stories and convince themselves that they're true. I'm afraid George is one of those. The problem is, which story will he believe in court? It seems he's had a free ride all of his life. Whenever he made a mistake, he owned up to it and apologized. Then, the problem went away. This time, it's not going to work.]
Dave, you might like this Zimmerman reenactment video that includes notes and comparisons with GZ's 911 (non-emergency) call. The person who put it together is the same Teeslaw who created the time-stamped 911 calls, and who is either the "whonoze" of the website noted by SnoopySleuth or is affiliated with that site.
[That's a very compelling video, Dawn. Snoopy brought it to my attention yesterday afternoon, after I published the above post. It's good to know that there are many others who are scrutinizing George's stories. I find it quite interesting that he selectively uses ADHD when he needs to. He remembers every person living in the Retreat complex, but doesn't know the names of the streets, of which there are only three, and the one he claims to have forgotten is the one that directly links the two entrances. And then there's the house number where he said it wasn't.
Casey was a prolific liar who got away with everything when it came to her parents. I'm afraid George is the same way, only Angela Corey isn't buying into his claims. Thanks.]
An observation about DeeDee's testimony, of which there are certainly issues as SnoopySleuth's link indicates. The reenactment presents a much greater distance between the point when GZ first sees TM and the cut-away/junction of east-west sidewalk and north-south sidewalk than was estimated until now. If TM had run after having passed GZ at the clubhouse, then he would indeed have been pretty winded by the time he hid somewhere close to that junction, and, at that point, would have been "near to his daddy's house" than he was previously - meaning, he didn't have to be right outside Brandy Green's house to be "near" as was previously speculated when the estimated distance wasn't all that great.
I'd also like to point out something that really bothers me when I read points such as "why didn't he just run all the way home." For a lot of people, it is instinctive to hide from the pursuer until one feels safe enough to go home - in other words, it's instinct to not want to show a pursuer where you live. This is, indeed, advice given by every organization that provides information on evading possible sexual assault.
It may be lawful to follow someone, in a car and/or by foot, but that doesn't matter a damn to the target of the pursuit. It's intimidating and frightening. I can imagine very well what TM felt, in the dark, being stared at and followed by someone in a car, caught in the glare of headlights, and then followed by that someone on foot who is using a flashlight.
BTW, the website AxiomAmnesia has many related documents, including audio of all witness testimony, the 911 calls, etc.
[I think the state is going to rip plenty of holes in George's stories. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do the same thing in my second part, and I'm basing it on his own words. Things are not adding up at all. As for DeeDee, I don't think her testimony will be as important as the precise times she spent on the phone. Don't get me wrong, but George had no clue the two of them were communicating, and his time with the dispatcher, combined with hers, may not add up the way he said it did.
I, too, have given thought to how close Trayvon was to his father's location. It's relative to where he was at the time. When entering the complex, he wasn't, but as he entered the common back yard area between the buildings, he was. In other words, it's open to interpretation. I agree with you about running directly to the back door and giving away his location to an unknown stalker. At least, that's what George must have been to him. Yes, it's downright intimidating, and had George merely rolled down his window and explained what he was doing, this death would not have occurred.
Thanks for that link. I'm all for everything, regardless of which side, but I will not tolerate blatant misrepresentations the likes of which I wouldn't believe exist. How anyone could justify Trayvon's shooting with the fact that he had trace amounts of THC in his system is reprehensible. Why not execute everyone who's ever smoked pot. Hell, I'd be one of the first ones to go.]
Snoopy,
I am sure that you vetted this information before putting it out there but could you point me to how the following information was verified?
"Has anyone considered that T was not an angel and punched a bus driver, smoked weed ( being a minor) and coached fist fights with his peers?"
I have been unable to verify that Travon in fact did attack a school bus driver, or coached a fist fight.
Thank you
That was my sentiment exactly Dave, it seemed his story became contrived a bit and his explanation became more pronounced as he gained an audience. To me the explanation of Martin jumping out of the bushes seemed "neat". If your hunch is correct the reason he ends his sentences with "?" is because he needs validation for his actions. He is looking for the positive response so if he tells his audience that he approached Martin from behind and confronted him he gets a negative view but if he scructures the story to indicate that Martin hid behind bushes and jumped out then his public view is greatly different.
I believe in his police statement he indicated that they struggled over the gun and the gun went off...i do believe it was theorized that it was at a distance of 2 1/2-3' when the fatal shot was fired? Zimmerman proclaims that there was a discussion, although heated between the two, that seemed to infer that Martin was going to "kill him"...which leads me to the contrived statemet.
A matter of seconds elapsed between Martin speaking with his girlfriend and the fatal shot. Although I may be wrong (and I'm certain Snoopy will correct me) the discussions were not heated like..."I'm gonna bust him up" or "I'm gonna beat his ass" anything. If anything Martin indicates and or shows a little fear as he speaks with his girlfriend because he doesnt know why this guy is following him and is a bit suspicious.
To many thing make him a little to neat...?
[George's stories do seem contrived, BMan, and the fact that they don't jive makes them all the less believeable. I'm not even mentioning the fact that he's already shown that he's a liar. That came later. This is what he told investigators happened the night of the shooting. He never told the dispatcher he was looking for an address, yet he said the dispatcher asked. He said he didn't know the name of the street, yet he clearly mentions it to the detective in the reenactment. There are too many chasms that render his accounts as unreliable. Those are discrepancies the prosecutor didn't overlook. Why it was initially is beyond me. Somebody didn't want to handle the mess is my guess.
I don't know if a distance has been established, but as far as I know, the gun could have been touching the fabric when it went off, or it could have been at a short distance. I don't know if forensics can pinpoint it or not, but it's safe to say the two of them were quite close, which actually helps George because that's what he has been saying all along. Do I believe he was beaten to a pulp? No, absolutely not, but you take a guy like George, with no backbone without a gun, and you've got a guy who ran to his momma every time a mosquito flew by. No doubt, he's got zero tolerance for pain and, perhaps, he's claustrophobic. He panicked.
As for Trayvon jumping him, I will show you how it didn't happen the way George showed it. Couldn't have.
Hey! Thanks, great hearing from you.]
Another thing I wanted to comment on but failed to put in my initial post is what you pointed out between the facts as they've been recorded and the re-enactment. Although I'm simply re-stating my previous post one thing to consider with ADHD is that most individuals with this condition have a tendancy to "over explain" and, at times, give details unrelated to the event.
I've said in the past and I think it fits perfectly here: The Devil's in the Details and that's what makes Zimmerman unbelievable...IMO
[Yes! His details don't jive! Only he knows why.]
The special prosecutor in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin murder case just released more evidence, but there's almost nothing new.
Reporters at the Orlando Sentinel are currently reviewing it. A quick check shows that there are no new photos, video or audio recordings. The only new paperwork is a nearly 30-page Sanford police report that was previously released.
This time, however, certain parts that were blacked out have been restored.
Read more here...
Zimmerman special prosecutor releases more evidence, little that's new
Has anyone considered that T was not an angel and punched a bus driver, smoked weed ( being a minor) and coached fist fights with his peers?
Thank God, in a court of law, we have both a prosecution and a DEFENSE to present the evidence.
"and punched a bus driver,"
Snoopy. I researched this and found -no- evidence that this is a true statement. Wasn't this just a reference made in a tweet by his cousin Snoopy?
My wife is an Assistant principal and tells me that most school districts have an automatic expulsion policy for striking a bus driver. The school has not claimed that Travon struck a bus driver, there was no arrest made, thus I am very puzzled of your motive to set this out here as fact?
Just-released documents show that Sanford police didn't believe everything murder defendant George Zimmerman told them about what happened the night he killed Trayvon Martin but they had no evidence to disprove his self-defense claim.
"Investigative findings show the physical injuries displayed by George Michael Zimmerman were marginally consistent with a life-threatening episode as described by him," wrote police Investigator Chris Serino
Still, Serino in that report faulted Zimmerman for twice passing up the change to tell the 17-year-old that he was a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, something that may well have defused the situation.
The paperwork also reveals that Sanford police concluded that Trayvon was running toward the townhouse where he was staying when the two confronted each other.
And it shows that they believed Zimmerman was following Trayvon, something the second-degree murder defendant initially admitted but later denied.
Even so, a voice stress test they gave Zimmerman, something similar to a lie-detector, convinced them that he "told substantively the complete truth".
Read more here...
Sanford police: Zimmerman passed up two chances to talk to Trayvon
Porky3100~~ this was included in my comment upthread to which you want to insist I stated it as fact.
READ MY LIPS...
Anything stated above may be hearsay, untruths or whatever but none are my own personal beliefs for the simple reason I just don't know what the truth is.
Snoopy,
Yeah but we have an obligation to avoid putting undocumented hearsay out there. The danger in this case is it leaves the untruthful impression that a dead teen was prone to violence. It's irresponsible at the core.
Porky3100~ ~in that event, we must refrain from putting out undocumented hearsay and rumors in regards to all players in this case.
Let's all conclude that Zimmerman is a liar, willfully and with malice murdered a black youth and just declare him guilty. Maybe we should not even be discussing this case and leave it to the court system.
I am predicting that George Zimmerman will be found guilty of second degree murder ( unless he pleas and O'Mara can get a charge of manslaughter). Z willl spend a good many years in jail. With all the tensions surrounding this case, it is almost a given that this has to be the outcome because of the repercussions that will follow suit if he is ever found innocent on SYG. This should ease your mind!
While Zimmerman has shown himself to be a liar, this is not tit for tat. Travon is dead and not here to speak for himself. Thus, I find it completely irresponsible for the adults in the conversation to perpetuate damaging rumors. I am very sorry that you do not understand that standard.
Porky3100~~if it is your aim to shut me up, contact Dave and request that I be banned from commenting here. If he sees fit, I will gladly leave.
Why the whiney bellyaching Snoopy? All I asked you to do was not put false information out there about a dead kid? Stop with the mind games please.
Porky3100 ~~I will not permit you to dictate to me what I can comment about. If you consider this bellyaching or mind games, that is your perogative. Since you are not the blog owner, it is up to Dave to put me in my place. I think he does that very discreetly as a matter of fact.
Uhh ok.
I tell ya what-there's more factual stuff in Dave's posts than at RC's threads on the subject. I had to stop reading there for all the mess amongst the facts! Snoopy, some people are ignorable.
[Thank you for the vote of support, Sherry. I think RC and other forums are very important. I know we all make mistakes, but there's lots to learn from everyone. At least, that's the way I feel. I see no problem with them.]
The transcripts clearly reveal that BOTH Z & his wife LIED ... and tried to disguise WHAT they were actually DOING: TRYING TO USE WELL-MEANING PEOPLE's trust by using THOUSANDS $$$ TO PAY overdue bills, credit cards (American Express, Walmart's etc). They compounded their felonies BY lying to the judge about WHAT they actually did (and swore they DIDN'T have the funds for bail, etc).
And, in the many, many weeks AFTER BOTH deceived the court -- they NEVER BOTHERED TO "correct" their testimony OR false implications.
NOW, his lawyer is trying to say that they "were JUST CONFUSED and unafraid." TOTALLY horse crap.
They were not AFRAID to spend their ill-gotten gains on personal $$$ instead of HIS DEFENSE.
why should anybody believe him about anything "he stated" about killing Trayon? HE doesn't have even the slightest measure of truth-i-ness about him.
[I agree with you, karen lee. On George's Website - the one he set up - he asked for financial support to help him pay legal costs he was about to incur. I don't recall him stating anywhere that donations were to be used to pay for past due bills that had built up in his personal life, to the tune of thousands upon thousands of dollars. That's deceptive in my book.
Both of them lied to the judge. A lot of people have been excusing him for lying about his windfall. They say that plenty of people lie about their finances. Certainly, they're not the first to do something like that. Right. No, they're not, but these people miss the point. George and Shellie didn't just lie about their money, they lied to a judge. So far, they haven't shown me any reason why I should believe George's story about the incident on February 26. These are people who can lie at will and think nothing of it. I don't trust them.
Thanks for your comment. I put no faith in George Zimmerman.]
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Sanford police say the lead detective in the Trayvon Martin case has been reassigned to the patrol division at his request.
Christopher Serino recommended after his initial investigation that George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter in the unarmed teenager's Feb. 26 shooting death. The 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer told police he feared for his life during the fight in which Martin slammed his head against the ground.
Zimmerman cited Florida's "stand your ground" law that gives wide latitude to people defending themselves. More than a month later after a nationwide outcry, Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder and has pleaded not guilty.
The police statement says Serino made the reassignment decision "of his own volition." He will begin his new assignment in July. He did not have a listed number
Lead detective in Trayvon Martin case reassigned
[Here's what I said to someone who asked me about it earlier. Of course, I'm just guessing:
I think he was nudged. I think the old Sanford PD needed to be swept out the door for the sake of redemption. Out with the old; in with the new. Fresh people. Unfortunately for Serino, the perception was that he was part of the problem just because he was part of the problem that blew up in the city's face. Never mind that he did nothing wrong, he became a scapegoat.]
Sherry ~~now you know why I hang out here and not there. Dave always bases his posts on facts!
Friday should prove very interesting. I expect Z will get bond but at a price. O'Mara has some other issues to bring up at the hearing. I am interested in observing the temperment of Judge Lester. That may give us a glimpse into what may transpire in the future.
Shellie Z's arraignment on the perjury charges is due July 31st, IIRC.
I do not think that either blog takes away from the other. RC and Dave's blog bring different perspectives. Dave's blog is a well authored blog with Dave providing excellent analysis. I've not seen many blog authors who rise to Dave's level. RC on the other hand is reader driven but level of contributions tends to be somewhat more in depth and researched than here. Both blogs bring a tremendous degree of perspective and I give Dave my deepest gratitude for the value added writing that he does.
[Thanks, Porky3100. Well authored, huh? That's mighty fine of you to say so.
There's a big difference between a blog and a forum, and that's the difference between me and RC. To be honest, even if RC was a blog, I'd have no problem with it because there's plenty of room for everyone on the Internet. Besides, the more there are, the more we learn. There are lots of opinions and ideas out there and, hopefully, we would consider sharing with everyone. It opens avenues we might not otherwise drive down.]
Dave~~I am searching for Serino's assessment that was released today... in pdf if possible.
There are follow up videos after the initial one at this site plus a write up....
George Zimmerman's Story 'Marginally Consistent' With Life Threatening Attack: Cop
[Snoopy - I haven't found a pdf of anything on Serino yet. I don't even know if something is out there.]
Dave~~the reenactment video today shows 4 extra minutes that was not in the last video released. Now I am trying to find the video released today. There is a short video clip on the site I am posting. Here is an excerpt from that site..
Among the items released Tuesday was a video shot by police of Zimmerman re-enacting the events which led up to the shooting on February 26th. While the video was released last week, this new version contains four minutes that did appear in the original release. It has not been said why the four minutes were deleted from the first release.
More Documents Released In Trayvon Martin Shooting Investigation
Dave~~I found this and am not sure if there is anything new on it that we haven't read before...
Zimmerman full police report in pdf
[I found a few morsels in there that I will use in my next post, Snoopy. You're right; not much, but there's something.]
Dave~~this is why I love O'Mara. The motion is very interesting and I definitely agree with it.
Mark O'Mara has filed a motion to allow Zimmerman to wear civilian clothing and without restraints at his bond hearing.
Motion
[I think it was a good motion to file. Even Jose Baez filed one on Casey's behalf and it was granted. To be honest, I kinda cringed when I saw Zimmerman in shackles trying to make his way to his seat and raise his right arm to swear to tell the truth. We're not talking about a serial murderer here. Besides, without his gun, he's a wimp.]
In the beginning when all the controversial comments were running rampant - in order to try to understand the "pro" Zimmerman people I put myself in both the victim's TM and GZ's mindset.
In order for me to do that I did a little research in both of their backgrounds. Each time I did more research I found very telling signs of GZ's inability to face the truth. I also found some significant signs that were telling of TM's character. There's a lot to take in but suffice to say, I've found myself thinking that it just wasn't in TM's character to attack anyone. He might have defended himself well in the two minutes he had before his life was cut short but in no way is it possible in my mind that this 17 year old kid had the prescence of mind of make any kind of verbal threats to GZ as GZ claims.
Combined with the time that it took between the end of GZ's 911 call to the time TM was dead its impossible to believe all of the things occured that GZ claims. Wasn't it like 3 minutes between the end of the call and the arrival of police?
Here comes the old adage...."if it doesn't make sense it isn't true". George's account is the epitome of that old adage. I do think that he will be torn apart on the stand during trial but I have a sneaking suspicion his lawyer will prevent him from testifying. Unless George's ego or rather his "Munchausens" personality disorder gets in the way and he insists on it himself, he will NOT testify. But then again I don't see how the defense can present any kind of well....defense without his testimony since he is the only witness.
Back to the mindsets of these two individuals. TM was known his whole life to be a sweet unasumming kid who was happy and positive and had no severe latent issues with his parents divorce. Dee Dee even said he was a bit of a Mama's boy, he loved mom's cooking and he loved spending time with his dad and his fiance and soon to be new brother. He was not known to be aggressive in any way. HE WAS SCARED that night. That much was evident and being 17 doesn't always give one the tools to be able to think on the spot especially when they're scared. TM was a suburbanite kid, he was not experienced in "street" thinking so how is it possible that he could turn on his stalker, stand HIS ground and say, "You've got a problem now" or the ridiculous comment "You're gonna die" while supposedly grabbing for GZ's gun. Its simply ludicrous.
But like bman pointed out it is instinctive to NOT want to lead someone who is following you to your doorstep. That was the first thing I thought of when people were saying over/over why didn't he just run all the way home? I'm sure this was in the back of Trayvon's mind. He wasn't going to give this guy a clue about that because it is in fact instinctive to protect your whereabouts when someone is following you.
GZ as well as his wife have extremely unclean hands. They both have a history of not accepting responsibility for their spending to the point of being sued. (seperately a few years apart so clearly nothing learned from the first time it happened) They both have demonstrated an attitude of "entitlement" for their lifestyle. George's father got him out of the fiasco several years prior, when he got in trouble at a party with underage drinkers - George resisted arrest. His almost gang like punk mentality demonstrated on his MySpace page and Shellie's inability to stick with a job/career choices or school for that matter really seem to show a lack of integrity and trustworthiness. Coupled with their stupidity in thinking they could lie to everyone, hide a passport and money from the court also shows their lack of integrity. So far in their lives, they've had other people step in and help them - I believe this exacerbates problem behaviors such as theirs. Either he influenced Shellie into the same attitude or he met his match in her. George's family are enablers they have lied for him in the past too. George's dad stated that at one time George was making 10 grand a month....well then why couldn't he make monthly payments to his credit cards???? I don't think he made that much ever in a month. I think he wanted people to think he made that much. GZ is the kind of person that sits on the bench watching everyone do better (in his mind) and he wanted so desperately to be in that group - whether it was living beyond his means, being "captain" of a NW or the hero who shoots the bad kid because "they always get away".
As far as Dee Dee's account, although its vague at times she was most likely extremely nervous and emotional. But I do believe her story. I don't agree with the breakdown that Whonoze put into it. I think there's too much speculation and conjecture and he's reading too much into her few inconsistencies. She's a child and seems less educated then others her age. Clearly, she's not a good articulater but neither were the questions being asked by Crump. He never really steared her towards important details and he kept asking the same questions which may in part given her the reason for second-guessing her own answers. But the part when she came to what happened in the end is very believeable and sounds accurate. It made sense to me that once TM told Dee Dee the stalker was back and approaching fast was an accurate and believable account of what happened.
I think her testimony, may not give a good timeline of events, but it will be useful in its description of Trayvon's personality and his mindset that night. It describes a good kid, minding his own business and then becoming increasingly frightened (and sadly we know he was right in being so scared) by some creepy stranger watching, following and eventually attacking him. And as I write this my mind goes back to Trayvon's parents, his stepbrother and his dad's fiance. My heart just breaks that he was stolen from them in this way and by such a waste of space as GZ.
And I will not apoligize for my impression of GZ. No one will ever be able to convince me that he is worth my compassion or understanding because in all his police interviews, conversations with wife on the phone, etc he doesn't show the slightest remorse about the kid he killed. Even the "apology" he gave to the parents at his arraignment doesn't seem genuine.
I should've said Munchausens-Like personality disorder because obviously I have no proof that George ran around creating scenarios for him to be a hero and save people from but in my opinion this is what he did that night.
Mystical~~ it appears that Zimmerman's adrenaline was at a high and along with with his ADHD, he fired his gun before his brain was engaged. It was like he was possessed. I honestly don't think he can talk his way out of a long jail sentence. It appears that Zimmerman has been living in a fantasy world and may have played this same scenario over and over in his mind months or days before it happened. I would expect once he purchased his gun, God knows what he was thinking while he was target practising. JMO
Dave~~IMO, in order to get a proper voice sample, they would have to get Zimmerman to lie on the grass on a rainy night and listen to him screaming for help on the exact phone of the woman who called 911 when we could hear the yells for help. Sounds carry differently depending on the weather...etc. I wonder where investigators conducted their tests. Maybe LE has a sample of Trayvon's voice that was saved on a voice msg or a video that was made of him before this all happened.
George Zimmerman audio samples given to investigators released
Mystical~~I should have commended you on a great comment. You put a lot of thought into it and made some great points. Thank you.
MysticalPippin, I think your statements are right on target. Well said !!
And, to repeat what Snoopy just said, I believe also " that Zimmerman has been living in a fantasy world and played this scenario over and over in his mind months or days before it happened."
Newbie~~One thing I can say with confidence, Zimmerman did not sustain the injuries to the back of his head from repeated pounding on the pavement. His head may have grazed the edge of the pavement just the one time. His head connected with a solid object lying in the grass but it was not concrete.
I just quizzed up on ADHD and OCD... I would be more inclined to think that Z had OCD. Just my uneducated opinion.
Now I am trying to figure out when Z's gun was first taken from the holster. Hmmmmm
Dave ~ ~Looky here.... an excerpt from the article ...
But Zimmerman was once fined $10,000 in a federal civil lawsuit because he was a no-show at his own deposition, The Miami Herald has learned. Records show lawyers, including one who flew in from Atlanta to take Zimmerman’s sworn statement, waited for him for an hour and a half while they tried unsuccessfully to reach him.
Zimmerman ultimately won the overtime-pay dispute in arbitration, but the arbitrator hit him with a fine he apparently never paid. Nothing in the court file explains his absence from the deposition.
Read the entire article here...
Zimmerman failed to appear in previous court case, fined $10,000
I agree with O'mara. That's civil stuff and has no bearing on this. I think that Zimmerman is a total schmuck but nah, this has nothing to do with the case.
Porky, according to the article, GZ was eventually paid in full, but his lawyer was not paid. And GZ did not pay the $10k fine.
Great posts, Mystical Pippin.
It seems that Serino has been demoted because he was the source of the leaks to ABC news, including the video of GZ at the police station the night of the shooting. He seems not to have believed GZ from the start, and we know that he recommended charging him with manslaughter. He saw Trayvon's body that night, and met his father the next day. Reading between the lines, he must have been frustrated by the decision not to charge, and did what he could to generate public pressure on the prosecutor.
Porky...CB here
Welcome CN!
Molly yes. I think that by now we know that he very much on the shady side.
Hi Porky...good to see you.
"These assholes always get away." That's what this entire case boils down to. GZ's paranoid and possibly racial mind decided that Trayvon was an asshole, high on something, and up to no good. Rather than follow the dispatcher's instruction to not follow Trayvon, he pursued him nevertheless. It appears that the prosecutor has sufficient evidence to prevent GZ from prevailing on a SYG motion, and will most likely prevail on its 2nd degree murder charge.
Facts, they are exactly that - no matter what we want to believe or how bad we want to rationalize or make light of a person's conduct, the law is exacted upon facts not beliefs. Thank goodness for prosecutors.
Was GZ justified in killing Trayvon because he was losing the fight that he caused? Because it is a fact that GZ did not suffer life threatening injuries.
There are those who will try to ignore, make light of, or explain GZ's actions of paranoia, racism, lack of respect for women, and complete disregard for human life, but that won't change the facts - Trayvon is dead at the hands of GZ for no good reason and GZ justifiably deserves to be convicted of 2nd degree murder.
The only bummer is, we will have to wait a year or so to see it happen.
[And I hope the judge keeps him in jail until trial. That way, if he's found not guilty, and stranger things have happened, he'll at least spend a year or so incarcerated.]
MollyK, can you provide a link that shows that Serino leaked the video to ABC? I have seen no link.
Also, Snoopy, you mentioned upthread that Trayvon assaulted a bus driver? Where did that come from? That is news to me.
Cheroke! I too think that GZ has screwed himself on a SYG hearing well. Dave touched on it and credibility will be a HUGE issue. Did you check out the Orlando Sentinel today? They posted the following article and if these inconsistencies are accurate-- I see no hope of SYG if taken in conjunction with other lies that and misrepresentations.
I also wonder the degree to which the Judge will even allow a character assassination of Travon, should the defense be so daring to try it.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-27/news/os-george-zimmerman-inconsistencies-20120626_1_shooting-dispatcher-police