George, Trayvon and Other Trials and Tribulations
Sunday, May 6, 2012 at 6:33PM Lately, I’ve been pondering a few things about George Zimmerman and his victim, Trayvon Martin. When I’ve had the time, of course…
The Age Factor
On his February 26 recorded phone call to a Sanford Police Department dispatcher, George Zimmerman described Trayvon Martin as black and in his late teens after being asked. When he took the stand at his bond hearing, he apologized to Trayvon’s mother and father, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, and saying that he thought the boy was closer to his own age of 28. That, at best, is a 10-year age discrepancy — a huge difference. What intrigues me the most is that, from a distance, Trayvon looked like a teen; hence the description to the dispatcher. Surely, as the two men approached each other, it should have been even more apparent to Zimmerman that Trayvon was, in fact, a mere teenager, especially moments before the fatal shot was fired. In my opinion, it makes the apology superficial.
Clearly, Trayvon’s age will be a factor during the second-degree murder trial. Why did George contradict his own statement to the dispatcher about the boy’s age while on the stand? How will his defense attorney, Mark O’Mara, explain this faux pas to the jury? This is not an easy math problem to solve with tangents, cosines and mirrors.
Sunset came at 6:23 PM that day. Sixteen minutes later, at 7:09, George called the police. How long had he been tailing the teen in order to decide his approximate age? Certainly, once darkness fell, it should have been more difficult to make any sort of call regarding age, unless enough light was cast from street lamps, but still, it meant a clean enough look to respond to the dispatcher’s query regarding the youth’s age.
What made him tell the dispatcher that Trayvon was in his late teens? Why did he change his tune on the stand?
The Myspace Page From 2005
You can read the page here.
“I love the fact that I can still go back home and crash on my boys couch as if i had never left, I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he’s at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my ass pinched.”
Is Georgie Boy admitting that his pals do time in jail for him? They never rat him out? What sort of upstanding, law-abiding citizen allows his “friends” to take the blame? A hero?
“Im still free! The ex hoe tried her hardest, but the judge saw through it! Big Mike, reppin the Dverse security makin me look a million bucks, broke her down! Thanks to everyone for checkin up on me! Stay tuned for the A.T.F. charges……”
Ex hoe? How about it ladies?
“I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book… Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”
Does that sound racist? Does it prove anything? Can it be used against him in court?
Here’s what I’m hearing in the hood. Well, it’s not really any kind of hood, mind you. Call it word on the street. Zimmerman was only 21-years-old at the time of this particular Myspace page. What would you expect from a 21-year-old, right? It’s an odd question, though, because Trayvon was only 17 when he died and I’m hearing all sorts of excuses for homeboy Zimmerman acting that way when he was 21, but nothing in favor of Trayvon four years his junior at the time. Why was it OK for Zimmerman to act like a street-punk gangsta at 21, but not OK for Trayvon at 17, if, in fact, he acted that way at all the night he died? You see what I mean? What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander, right? Only this time, it cost a boy his life; hardly punishable by one year in jail, served by one of Joe G’s friends, the name Zimmerman went by on his Myspace page.
Here’s something else to consider. According to the Miami Herald Website, another one of Zimmerman’s Myspace pages under the username “datniggytb” was taken down last month. datniggytb? Huh? Why was it swiftly removed? Any ideas, folks? Could this have been factored into the arrest?
Personal Observations
A lot has been said about the donation site and other support pages set up by Zimmerman’s defense attorney. In my opinion, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. Yes, public funding will save Florida’s taxpayers a ton of money since he can no longer claim his client is indigent. Yes, it is a bit tacky, but there’s no reason why he or anyone else, for that matter, cannot ask for handouts. Ultimately, it’s up to you (and only you) to decide whether to fill his coffers or not, which leads me to…
Life is full of radicals. They come from the far left and right. On the left, there are those who would be very happy to proclaim that a vote against Barack Obama is racist. I’ve heard it myself. Do I believe it? Is there any truth to it? No way! We are a diverse nation, filled with liberals and conservatives, Republicans, Democrats and independents. When it comes to voting, ethnicity no longer plays a role. We vote for who we please.
There are those who believe that a donation to George Zimmerman’s defense fund is truly racist, too. I wholeheartedly disagree. While some of the money might come from white supremacists and bigots — true racists, indeed, there’s more to it than a simple explanation. For sure, Zimmerman’s going to get funds from the NRA, either by the organization itself or its members, and from gun supporters in general. That’s mostly because of “stand your ground” laws in place in several states. And, of course, the Second Amendment; the right to bear arms. This particular aspect has nothing to do with racism. Because the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case is such a complex issue, I don’t think it’s as black and white (pun intended) as a superficial explanation or excuse. It’s much deeper. It could be either/or, or it could be both/and, if you understand my meaning. We must keep our minds open. Not all of Zimmerman’s supporters are white any more than all of Trayvon’s supporters are black. Besides, Zimmerman describes himself as Hispanic/Latino on his old Myspace page. I look beyond his race and see a cop wannabe who grew up reading way too many comic books. Nothing more.
On a more personal note, I have been noticeably absent from my blog. I am not trying to elicit any sympathy or anything, but my father suffered a stroke. He has been in the hospital all week and I have many important family obligations to attend to. My mind is focused on mostly that, plus other very personal things going on in my life. SnoopySleuth has been doing an exemplary job of maintaining my blog and I appreciate it more than she probably knows. All I can do is thank her for her efforts, and thank you for your continued support. I promise, things will loosen up, but it may take a bit of time. Soldier on!
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Human Interest, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Seminole County Jail, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, State Attorney Angela Corey, Sybrina Fulton, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 2 References 
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Reader Comments (161)
Another known it out of the park post Dave. I think too that Zimmermnan has shown that he is experienced in beating a charge as well. I disagree about the race motive and had thought I posted by did not see it the next day. Probably operator error.
Zimmerman's Myspace comments are very disturbing. Not only does he have no respect for other races, he totally disrespects his ex-girlfriend. I wonder if Mr. O'Mara knew about these postings before he took the case.
Anyone who donates to his defense fund is a fool.
Dave, sending you my best for you and your family.
What happened to Karen? I never see her posts anymore
Porky3100~~it looks like you are going to have to put up with me for awhile longer. Karen C leads a very busy life. She will be popping in here when you least expect her to. She generally comments late at night...
Dave~~I guess you could not handle my nagging any longer. Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. It will give us something to chew on while we await those precious documents. Surely the media will get their mitts on a few this upcoming week.
Let's just say that I am going to look at the defense's side.... This does not represent my true feelings and I will do my best to stay neutral and give each side their fair shake...
Trayvon appeared to be a teenager at a distance. As Trayvon got closer to Zimmerman and his stature of around 6 feet was now more visible, he may have been taken for older. This is how I think O'Mara will get around this issue. If Zimmerman got attacked by Trayvon and seemed to be in strong physical condition, this would also make him appear more mature. I do not think that age can be assessed just in the number of years one has been on this earth....age should be weighed by what one has experienced. Some people never grow up mentally as well as physically.
Someone mentioned that they had not read the affidavit... here you go...
The following is the affidavit that Angela Corey filed to come up with her Second Degree Murder Charge against George Zimmerman. She felt this was sufficient but there are those who will beg to differ.
State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman: Affidavit of probable cause
Here is one legal analyst take on a portion of the affidavit...
For instance, the affidavit claims that a police dispatcher "instructed" Zimmerman not to follow Martin. However, in the recorded phone conversation, the police dispatcher merely tells Zimmerman: "we don't need you to do that." While this may seem like a minor discrepancy, it is clearly inaccurate to state that the dispatcher "instructed" Zimmerman not to follow Martin. At a minimum, this misstatement of fact evinces a disregard for accuracy
...Huh? Why was it swiftly removed? Any ideas, folks? Could this have been factored into the arrest?
Let's hope not! There are alot of folks out there now who thinks Zimmerman was arrested under pressure due to a charge of racism and they are not happy about it. Its not yet illegal to be a racist in our nation. I believe the Sanford police dropped the ball in the first place and would like to think that the re-investigation is the reason for the arrest-that it was because the SPD didn't do a thorough enough job.
Just an FYI-both Democrats and Republicans passed the SYG law in Florida. It would not have passed if the liberals would have voted against it. Dave, do you know why there had to be such a law in Florida? Defend Your Castle should be enough. My biggest problem with those claiming the SYG law as a defense is that the shooters should use it as a last resort. If an investigation shows that it was possible to do something else in one's defense then an arrest should be made. Police get training in when to use deadly force-do average concealed carry gun owners get the same training? I highly doubt it. Plus, police get training in where to aim on a person's body so as not to kill the person. And the police are not under any fearfulness like average citizens fearing for their lives would be.
Blessings!
Sherry~~ How do we know that this was authenic and started by Zimmerman...
Here’s something else to consider. According to the Miami Herald Website, another one of Zimmerman’s Myspace pages under the username “datniggytb” was taken down last month. datniggytb? Huh? Why was it swiftly removed? Any ideas, folks? Could this have been factored into the arrest?
Since I started blogging, look how many blogs were put up using variations of Snoopysleuth. Dave went through the same thing. So did someone start a website using the name "datniggytb" and take a few screen shots and then take it down so it would look like Zimmerman was a racist. I wonder why the tb...and not tm...
I cannot see why this would be factored into making an arrest unless the FBI had factual information that Z did start the website. If that is the case, we shall see the evidence in the documents. Why would Zimmerman take the chance of doing such a thing? It is just not logical.
I never thought of that, Snoopy~
It sure doesn't sound like someone who would help a Sanford homeless man get justice or help kids to learn to read...
We need the documents!
Besides nagging Dave, I love picking his posts apart... This is why I call my blogging relationship with him like fire and gasoline... Well I am about to strike a match...
Dave says...Ex hoe? How about it ladies?
Well, I used to be a hoer when I gardened. I guess that doesn't count so will call this one in spades and rake it over the coals.
How do we know what caused the ruckus between Zimmerman and his ex fiancée? Was she sleeping around on him? Maybe he caught her in bed with another man? Maybe a Mexican? If she was wearing Z's engagement ring and having a little hanky panky on the side, yes, I can see him referring to her as a hoe.
It is a known fact that exes are not exempt from the name calling and I have read many a description of people's exes. Look at the names Casey was called and George, people castrated him..
Sherry. Do you think it is possible to have a black friend and still be racist? It is possible to mentor a black kid and be racist?
Snoopy, I totally disagree that people castrated George when the "affair" came to light! Cindy did that just moments after they exchanged vows!
As far as the "Hoe" part of your comment, I agree, but if this MySpace page is truly GZ's then he is a PIG-a chauvenistic PIG! But, then again, he may have "grown up" alot since then.
After World War II, I would be considered a racist because all Japanese people were Japs and the Germans were Nazis. The Italians were wops-that may not be spelled right. They were the enemy that made up the Axis and caused the death of many Canadians. I grew up with that concept because even tho I was very young when the war ended, it was instilled in me. It was my dear husband who set me straight and told me that I had to stop condemning all those races. Believe it or not, I was seventeen at the time and I referred to a Japanese girl as a Jap. It was not their fault that Hitler was a deranged madman.
To some degree, we are all racists at certain times in our lives. I am not just talking about the blacks and whites. Some will admit it, others are too afraid to because of the backlash. There are many who take racism to the extremes. Why? They are insecure. All the time they are putting someone else down, it is their way of building up thier own images. They are cop outs. Are they worth anyone's attention? In order to love another, you first must love yourself. Racists have to live within their own skin and that is their punishment. They are their own worst enemies.
I wish we could set the racial issues aside and look at the facts of this case. I am probably asking for the moon aren't I? Was George Zimmerman a racist? He is the only one who can attest to that.
I have felt that anyone who will not let go of the past is afraid to face the future. Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of our lives. We are in control of that future, in our thoughts and actions.
Now, I am getting down off my soapbox....oops, I just fell flat on my butt... now who pushed me?
Just gonna pass this along:
Don’t you know that a personal attack is merely a weak substitute for reason and logic? ~Citizen Tom
Snoopy, if there's money to be made by spouting "racism" it will never end for sure. Its a cash cow. I have been wondering if there isn't racism going on against Zimmerman for being Hispanic...or anti-semitism because it was said he has Jewish roots...jus' sayin'...
As much as we love your blog Dave, your family SHOULD come first, so there is no need to apologize. Take care of you and your family, as we will always be here when you are ready to return. Oh, and this was yet another superb post.
@Snoopysleuth: I have a major problem w/ the comment below:
"How do we know what caused the ruckus between Zimmerman and his ex fiancée? Was she sleeping around on him? Maybe he caught her in bed with another man? Maybe a Mexican? If she was wearing Z's engagement ring and having a little hanky panky on the side, yes, I can see him referring to her as a hoe."
There are a bunch of things wrong w/ the comment. First, it condones the ALLEGED violence by GZ against his former fiance. Second, it further tries to justify the alleged abuse one completely unsubstantiated theory that"maybe she had sex w/ a Mexican." SO. Personally, I think GZ was a poseur wannabe Gangsta at the time just like he was a neighborhood watchman posing as Dirty Harry. Calling women ho's and bitches is degrading and misogynistic. Because GZ never referred to his ex as a CHEATING ho, one can make the inference that she didn't cheat based on the fact that she wasn't referred to as a "cheating ho.The fact is we have no information concerning WHY the two broke their engagement. All we have is speculation. I can't definitely say GZ committed domestic violence and I can't say his former fiance did as well which was something GZ alleged. The most likely scenario is that he did in fact commit some kind of abuse given his history of violence, including fighting w/ the alcohol control officer and literally throwing a girl against a wall while working as "security" at illegal night clubs.
GA, I don't believe Snoopy is condoning anything about GZ's abuse of his ex fiancee but is trying to get into his messed up head to give reason for his angry, chauvenistic thinking. One can always understand an act without approving of it. Like the old saying, God always understands human nature but He doesn't always approve of it. Like you said, all we have is speculation and that is what Snoopy was doing. We don't know that he truly believes ALL women are hos which makes for a true mysoygnist or if he spoke that way out anger.
Porky Pig, I know that I can despise the actions of at least five black men since the start of this case being made public and not be a racist simply because it isn't their skin color I despise but their ideology and attempts to make this a race issue. The reasons are suspect in this election year.
Gov't Mule~~ You have every right to take objection to my comment. I mentioned the Mexican because Z seemed to be down on Mexicans. I was making light with that particular comment. Didn't Z turn around and file charges against the ex-fiancée. We do not know the extent of the assault. You can give someone a push and they call it an assault. Apparently the charges were dropped so the judge could not have thought it warranted any further action.
Do you have any proof that it was a 'violent' assault? It may have been a heated argument and a shoving match. This happens between couples and all we have heard about the incident has been sketchy. Did the ex-fiancée have to seek medical attention? The pitt bull bit Z in the face.
You refer to Zimmerman as a Gangsta....real strong words. You personally think that he was a wanna be Dirty Harry..
It is your perogative to shed Z in a bad light. You have formed your own opinions.
Do I condone violence against women? Now really, was that necessary? I will not dignify that with an answer.
Did you get a chance to watch the bond hearing? Did you happen to hear the judge's remarks about the Z's past demeanors etc? Notice he set the bond at $150,000 and not the million that the procecution asked for?
Would you not agree that bond was more suitable for a charge of manslaughter rather than second-degree murder?
One other thing, when Z was working as security, he threw a girl up against the wall. Did he physically pick her up and heave her against a wall? Is it possible that she was so intoxicated, he was trying to get her to leave and that she went after Z and he shoved her and she connected with the wall?
Since we have little to go on, it is easy to speculate and make mountains out of mole hills. I believe Z attended a anger management program in lieu of being charged for assault.
I appreciate your input...all opinions are welcomed along with constructive criticism of anything I say.
It's true that young males often show off for their friends. The posts on the old GZ website, assuming that it is indeed his, probably reflect GZ's attempts to appear "tough" and "cool" to his friends. Similarly, Trayvon's online photos of himself with metal in his teeth probably reflect the same thing. (I am so out of it that I didn't even know that some young people did this.) My 13-year-old son, a very sweet and gentle boy, now uses a deeper voice and different intonation when his friends are around. When he is alone with his family, he uses his natural voice which sounds younger.
So some of this can be discounted as normal young male behavior. But I don't think it's normal to refer to women as "hoes" or to have been involved in several violent incidents during the early 20's (or at all). I am all in favor of people speculating about different scenarios that may cast the interactions with the girlfriend in a more favorable light. But most of us go through life without any violent incidents, don't we? When there are multiple incidents, doesn't it become difficult to resist the belief that GZ is, or at least was, prone to rage and violent outbursts? I do believe that people can change and improve as they mature, but if the report that neighbors in the gated community complained about GZ's aggressiveness in his efforts to guard the neighborhood is true, then it is hard to see GZ as normal.
I don't think that referring to a woman as a "ho" is ever normal or acceptable.
I do not think Zimmerman was arrested because of racial tension. If that were true why not charge manslaughter? An investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman but the S.A.O. wanted to just move on. Anytime a minor is injured/killed by an adult there should be a thorough investigation. Even at 17 Trayvon is legally considered a child therefore he should be protected like one.
Maybe I live in a bubble but I do not see the connection with this case and the upcoming elections. IMO a questionable death or a person's color should never have anything to do with Republican/Democrat, election year/or not. I get some people do not like that Obama made comments about this case but other Presidents have commented and the other side did not like it. Other member's of Congress and the Senate had opinions and that is okay, can't we all say what we think? Or is it only limited to regular civilians? Saying nothing imo makes our Lawmakers appear not to care about the children in this country. jmo
Dave ~ I will pray for your family and hope for a speedy recovery for your Father.
Beliefs cannot change a fact, no matter how sincerely they are held.
These assholes always get away. That's what this entire case boils down to. GZ's paranoid and possibly racial mind decided that Trayvon was an asshole, high on something, and up to no good. Rather than follow the dispatcher's instruction to not follow Trayvon, he pursued him nevertheless. It appears that the prosecutor has sufficient evidence to prevent GZ from prevailing on a SYG motion, and will most likely prevail on its 2nd degree murder charge.
Facts, they are exactly that - no matter what we want to believe or how bad we want to rationalize or make light of a person's conduct, the law is exacted upon facts not beliefs. Thank goodness.
It is a fact that GZ has displayed racial biases throughout his adult life. All one has to do is read his JoeG My Space Page (last updated 2010), his Datniggytb May Space Page (last updated 2012), and his Therealgeorgezimmerman page (created 2012). All three of these web sites have been confirmed by himself, his attorney, or his family as being owned by GZ. All three of these websites contain outright racial statements or contain racial undertones.
It is a fact that Trayvon was doing nothing more than walking home to his dad's girlfriend's townhome in the late afternoon of February 26th. It is a fact that he was unarmed except for a bag of Skittles candy, Iced Tea, and spare change.
It is a fact that GZ pursued Trayvon with a firearm despite having been instructed by the 911 dispatcher not to follow Trayvon. Some want to argue that the dispatcher's statement of "We do not need you to do that" was nothing more than a suggestion. That is an argument of semantics that I am sure the jury will have no problem deciding in favor of the prosecution that the dispatcher meant for GZ to stop following Trayvon.
It is a fact that there was nothing urgent enough involving Trayvon walking through the Twin Lakes community that evening that would justify GZ's leaving his vehicle to pursue him. Yes, hindsight is 20-20, but part of adulthood is being able to use good judgment, something that GZ appears to have been lacking for many years. It is unfortunate that in order to obtain a concealed weapons permit, one is not required to take a common sense exam because we might not be discussing this case if such an exam existed.
It is a fact, that had GZ not pursued Trayvon, he would have made it safely to his destination. Knowing what you know, ask yourself what possibly could make the killing of Trayvon justified?
Was GZ justified in killing Trayvon because he was losing the fight that he caused? Because it is a fact that GZ did not suffer life threatening injuries.
So, yeah, there are those who will try to ignore, make light of, or explain GZ's actions of paranoia, racism, lack of respect for women, and complete disregard for human life, but that won't change the facts - Trayvon is dead at the hands of GZ for no good reason and GZ justifiably deserves to be convicted of 2nd degree murder.
Dave - as always, another great read. I am saying my prayers for your father. Take care.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
First- Dave, all blessings to your Dad, & trust you and yours have our support and prayers.
Second, Yes, Porky3100, I've been busier than a one-legged can-can dancer! (Thanks, Snoop!)
Third, CherokeeNative, that is one of the overall best-reasoned comments I've seen on this subject, and thank you for it. You put a lot of the strongest points out there for the prosecution side, and I really have yet to see as compelling an argument presented on the other side- not to date, anyway. We are still left with an unarmed young man who's dead for no particularly good reason (this complex was/is NOT Baghdad circa 2006, for pity's sake! No need for heavy duty firepower AT ALL, by Neighborhood Watch anybody!) BUT, we still are missing a lot of info- this may not be a "good case" at all for SYG to be argued and precedent set. That would go for either side of the gun debate.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone would get in a twist over the extreme white racists or their extreme black counterparts. I pity the poor camera crews and reporters who have to stand on the same curb as these identity-starved nitwits (actually, I would love to BEG them not to- Just ignore 'em all!), they must really feel like a good hot shower afterwards. Just let the parade and the clown cars go by, please....
We can safely assume that there's been meddling and manipulation a-plenty regarding websites, postings elsewhere, YouTube, images and so on- we do know that someone claiming to be a Klux-er bragged about faking stuff on Trayvon (he's been getting High Fives from that bunch- surprise). I'm pretty sure if we bothered to turn over more rocks we'd find some nastiness on the Other Side, too, but not from the primary participants there.
Of all the people involved in this mess the one I most identify with is Trayvon's mom. There's been more than one occasion this white gal has teared up and just really wanted to reach into that Tube and hug her when her neck starts tensing and her eyes get big. His Dad, too, has handled all this quite well, imho, but Sybrina Fulton has kept the focus laser-sharp on where it needs to be- the fact her son is dead, for no good reason at all, at all, at all.
Where's the thumbs up icon? I wanted to punch it several times for every sentence I read in CherokeeNative's last post!
Love this quote, too:
Beliefs cannot change a fact, no matter how sincerely they are held.
Laurali, political pundits on the right believe, no, KNOWS, that the Main Stream Media is liberal and on the left and since they didn't vet Obama in '08 as they should have they are pro-Obama. Obama put out a video especially to appeal for the black vote just prior to his remarks about Trayvon. It just looks suspect because it appeared to be more about Obama than Trayvon. Plus, had it been George Bush standing up for a white victim of a black shooter the MSM would have had a field day. Its really more about the devisive nature of this administration and the hypocrisy of the MSM's reporting that has the right up in arms about Obama's remarks.
Okay, we def need a thumbs up icon! Great post, Karen C.
True that about the clown cars. Everyone will do as they please in their own "reporting" of this case, for good or bad, so we all need discernment as to what we read. Idiots will believe what they want to even while knowing its a lie.
Laurali, political pundits on the right believe, no, KNOWS, that the Main Stream Media is liberal and on the left and since they didn't vet Obama in '08 as they should have they are pro-Obama. Obama put out a video especially to appeal for the black vote just prior to his remarks about Trayvon. It just looks suspect because it appeared to be more about Obama than Trayvon. Plus, had it been George Bush standing up for a white victim of a black shooter the MSM would have had a field day. Its really more about the devisive nature of this administration and the hypocrisy of the MSM's reporting that has the right up in arms about Obama's remarks.
Sherry,
Your post makes it seem like you have some sort of agenda. Obama actually said very little about the incident other than expressing his sympathy for the family and stating the kid could have looked like his. George Bush likewise has expressed sympathy for white crime victims and I see nothing wrong with either statement.
While I do not think that this is a partisan issue, it is noteworthy that not a single Republican candidate expressed public sentiment for the family. If anything, one can infer that they did not wish to alienate the NRA who Romney has pitched during the past month.
Personally I do not believe that a media conspiracy exists on the left or right. As to your comment about the left media vetting Obama--I simply cannot find enough logic on that statement to garner a comment.
Hi, Sherry! I just found this nugget, actually referenced at The Hinky Meter (which I do check up on periodically- won't post there though):
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-03/news/os-trayvon-martin-circles-george-zimmerman-20120503_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-source-police-department
IF true, GZ's defense has just been handed a far more difficult pile of p@@p to work with.
I gotta get to bed here soon (school night), but Honestly? I truly hope this doesn't go to trial, but some deal (with time) gets struck. This may not be a good case for SYG and the gun folks may cotton onto that when these alleged statements get leaked. Can we safely assume there's gonna be leaks? HAH!
Oh, and my apologies ahead-of-time if someone's already put a link for this in....
Here is Karen's link:
Source: Zimmerman says Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him
George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.
The source said Zimmerman's account of events hasn't changed in his several statements to police — in which he said he was so unnerved by the teen's behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation. However, he never mentioned any of that while talking to the dispatcher.
Now, that makes no sense-why wouldn't he tell the dispatcher? He mentions that the kid is acting strange and staring at him (or something like that) but he doesn't tell why??? Man o man! I'd be saying it! Just to get the cops there quicker, if possible!
Why do you hate white women, Porky Pig? Are you a racist mysogynist? BTW, When I see your name I don't bother to read a thing you have to say.
Sherry. Are you kidding me? I think that Snoopy will attest that my Facebook friends list looks like the rainbow coalition :) Care to address any of my actual points though?
Great comments in here last night folks.... Laurali, Cherokee Native, Sherry, Porky3100, Molly K et al
Karen C~~great to have you pop in....I think Mark O'Mara will study all the evidence and then advise his client accordingly as to that plea. I am not sure he will try for the mini trial and try to get Zimmerman immunity on the SYG law. It all depends what the defense has vs the prosecution. I am still waiting for those dang documents. I hope the media puts the pressure on to speed things up. I hope this does not go to trial...If it does proceed, the tension will be overwhelming regardless of its outcome.
I am not in a position to discuss politics or the gun issues but I will attest that Porky3100 does not dislike white women. He has amassed a whole harem of them from what I see at Facebook.
I realize this is a very emotional issue... as Dave said, "soldier on" but lay down your weapons...
Hear, hear, Snoopy! What's funny is that if you put some individuals in a room together with coffee on hand they might get along just fine- it's the facelessness of on-line discourse and its attendant lack of nonverbal cues, as well as (I think I can safely assume this!) differing life experiences that pile up the conflicts. One can reasonably place themselves in GZ's position OR TM's position and posit an argument for each side at this point (in my opinion only), due to the fact certain really important pieces of data are unknown to us now.
And a lot of this hinges on which side one falls on on the definition of "reasonable expectation" (I think that's how it's worded) of bodily harm as self-defense here. It seems rival drug dealers are blasting away at each other given the likely expectation they want each other dead and off "their" corner, and hoping their @sses are covered by SYG. NOT what the lawmakers had in mind! The question is how broad do we care to make this thing, and does it need tweaking as a result. And, what are the broader 2nd amendment implications (who wants to Go There?)
Another Big Issue is racial profiling. Heck, I know as a Prey Animal, being female, I tend to view ALL males under 30 on the street as Predators. Having lived in DT Boston many years this was a learned response derived from particular personal experiences- I was attacked by a Hispanic guy, mugged by a black guy and had an armed robbery in my store by a white guy (the black cop taking the report raised his eyebrow at that one, until I clarified that the Perp was actually more red than anything and reeked of booze! Cop had asked me twice if I was sure!) So, does my profiling of young men as potentially dangerous make me sexist? After all, I'd never been in a physical confrontation with a female of any kind, and only avoided them if they were clearly psychotic and wind-milling their arms about on the street.
Now, being older, I no longer fit a demographic that is as likely to be preyed upon. Young dudes of whatever color try to catch my eye to see if I'm in the market to buy, so to speak. Up and down the sidewalk they stumble, trying to make a few sales so they can get a hit... sad, sad, sad. Am I, in making certain assumptions about these dudes, profiling or just being observant? My son and I "follow" some of these individuals (I drive him to school, to and fro) and eventually they sorta disappear, and some other stumbling dude takes their place on the sidewalk. Is a cop profiling if he picks up a call on an armed robbery on two black guys in a grey sedan and decides to follow two black guys in a mid-blue sedan, who otherwise fit the description? Where do we place these lines within the definition of "reasonable"?
Sherry,
The reason that I asked if you thought that it was possible for George to mentor and still be racist was simply to get you think about your post where you said that it would be hard to imagine his as a racist since he had mentored a black child. I'm not here to change you ( an impossible task anyway) but let me elaborate on few things.
I did my first 2 years of college in the biology department at Indiana University. While there, I came to meet a Professor of Genetics who turned out to be very instrumental in my goals at the time which was to pursue research. I took his genetics class and got an A and he took an interest in me. He invited me to study in his lab and even gave me job as a teaching assistant ( which was a feat in itself for an undergraduate). He lobbied for and got research scholarship money for me and allowed me to pursue research as an undergraduate in his lab. He spend countless hours mentoring me both on a personal level as well as academically. When I later transferred to the University of Minnesota, he personally made calls to make sure that I was set up in a good lab up there. I am forever indebted to this man.
Let me tell you a few other things about him. I do not think that a week went by without him telling a racist joke of some kind. Really, he disliked black people on the whole and said so on a few occasions after heavy drinking. I got to meet his wife and daughter who both would tell me about some of the upsetting things he would say about black people. But he saw me as a talented young scientist and he liked me a lot. I was "different" and had a different temperament as he would say.
Years after I left his life we continues to talk over the phone and when ever I needed a recommendation he was there. I did not judge him for his racism because we simply connected.
The point that I make is I do not know whether Zimmerman is a racist or not ( although some fairly strong indications exists to support why he might be a racists), but is is possible for one to be a racist, yet have connections with specific member of the community that they despise.
You had another comment that concerns me
Snoopy, if there's money to be made by spouting "racism" it will never end for sure. Its a cash cow. I have been wondering if there isn't racism going on against Zimmerman for being Hispanic...or anti-semitism because it was said he has Jewish roots...jus' sayin'...
I think part of what we need to do in this country is at least make progress towards the tremendous amount of racial tension under the surface. As it turns out, I am taking a management course in conflict resolution this semester. Whether it is a gender, race, religious --whatever the issue, it is rarely productive to minimize the concerns of a group with statements such that imply "crying racism, sexism or insert your preface.
If we are to resolve out issues, we must at the very least avoid such terms that tend to be dismissive of the issue and engage in serious productive dialogue.
Wow I think that this is the longest post that I have ever written. Also Kudos to Karen, Snoopy and Cherokee for some great posts and thoughts. if I missed anyone, sue me :)
Snoopy, I agree with you about Porky 3100. I just wanted to use his own logic against him. If I am a racist for being critical of that scam artist Sharpton and the commie Obama then why can't he be a racist for all of his criticisms of my comments? And, just for good measure, I tossed in mysogynist for the fact he is coming against a woman! Just trying to point out that shouting "racism" because one skin color makes a criticism of another person of a different skin color is ridiculous unless the criticism does include racial epithets. I mean, look at those coming against Zimmerman-are they all racists, despisers of Whites/Hispanics, and/or anti-semitic due to him possibly having Jewish blood? Highly doubtful!
I have my opinions and unless I have used vulgar racial remarks I am NOT a racist! And neither is anyone here at Dave's who expresses their opinions on this case just because it goes against someone's fur. Racism is a serious enough issue without changing the definition to include anyone of one color criticizing someone of another color.
Now, Porky 3100, I am still not going to answer any of your posts to me because you are asking ridiculous questions. Plus, it doesn't fit in the comment lines of Dave's posts. Stop by my blog and we will talk because I think you are trying to make a valid point?...a whole lotta learning from you could go on but I warn ya, I do speak my mind and it can very well offend whether I intend it to or not.
http://notablequotesnsuch.wordpress.com/
Attorneys for George Zimmerman have filed two new motions, waiving his right to a speedy trial and asking for more time to ready his defense.
In a motion to continue the case, Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara explains simply that he "needs additional time to prepare." The motion also indicates that the state is not objecting to the request.
George Zimmerman waives right to speedy trial
Also regarding Zimmerman referring to his ex as a HOE. I strongly disagree that this is some male right of passage. Not only did i not use the term, I avoided friends who did because it just did not fit my philosophy and usually the guys who thought that way had very little in common with me.
Certainly by 25 years old a man has formed a reasoned opinion of women. As they say, it is what it is and while not definitive a clue into Zimmermans mind/
Okay, Porky 3100, I'm going to read your comment, that was posted while I was typing out mine, but I'm only doing it to see where you are coming from. Being falsely accused in my estimation a quick-sure way to have me ignore you (you being in the general sense, not as in you, Porky 3100).
I dunno, I had some choice words for an ex-boyfriend when Iwas young...but I still loved men! lol!
Great post, Porky 3100. I apologize for misjudging you.
No problem Sherry. I was pretty snippy at you too. If you do not know if my now I can get snippy at times and for that you have my apology ----- until my next snip :)
Porky3100-
Your former professor reminds me of my Hubby's late Grandpa- had an older black friend of his he worked with on the rail lines, and would go fishing with, but put the old coot in front of a TV with a Miller or two and a rampaging racist would come roaring out of him pretty quick. His friend was "different", see, not one of "those" folks.
You made a brief comment above on GZ's Hispanic/possible Jewish background. Well, aren't you the timely one, the nazis on Stormfront are trying to sort out their thoughts (I know, I know, an oxymoron!) on GZ right now- is he or is he not white? If someone had a Cherokee in their precious white bloodline, say, 6 generations ago, can they be considered "really" white? There are Hispanics who look pretty white; if they ACT "white", are they white? And so on. They are actually despairing of their own mixed-blood backgrounds over there- what with all these new genealogy websites, seems some of these nazis have had to deal with a few surprises!
Ahhhh I love reading you two....Sherry and Porky3100... let's say that you add some real zest to this blog... Hugs both of you...
Now Snoop is making her way up on that soapbox.... I need a step stool...
I would love to put the comment made by Zimmerman re the 'hoe' to bed and turn out the night light. First off, why should we think that Z considers all exes as 'hoes'? This is why I think of his one comment on his FBook as being not the way he thinks all the time. Did Z continue with his foul mouthing exes or other women in his life?
In a fit of the moment, a lot of name calling can occur. Take for instance... I just planted an expensive flower in my garden. My neighbor lets her little cockapoodle run free after repeated warnings from me that her pooch was using my garden for a Johnny on the Spot. When her Fido came over and cocked his leg and sprayed my flower, you wanna believe that I used every profanity on her, &^%$#@. The whole atmosphere turned blue with the names I called her. Now, should I be condemned for not having respect for my neighbors because of this one incident?
The above story is not true but I am using it as an example. Was this the case with Zimmerman? He just had an all out battle with his ex and went to FBook to vent.
As part of our make up, we have emotions...if we did not emote, then we would be classed as simple. Can you imagine us all tiptoeing around smiling all the time? We would look like a bunch of idiots.
It is good to speak your mind and be blunt if the occasion calls for it to get your points across. Being adults and with a bit of restraint, we can have good conversation going in a forum or blog sans, of course, the direct personal insults. Say how you really feel and not what you think will please the one you are responding to. In this way you are not only being honest with yourself but to the other party as well.
But I will warn you, don't ever let your dog loose to come and pee on my flowers.
Snoopy Re this
In a fit of the moment, a lot of name calling can occur. Take for instance... I just planted an expensive flower in my garden. My neighbor lets her little cockapoodle run free after repeated warnings from me that her pooch was using my garden for a Johnny on the Spot. When her Fido came over and cocked his leg and sprayed my flower, you wanna believe that I used every profanity on her, &^%$#@. The whole atmosphere turned blue with the names I called her. Now, should I be condemned for not having respect for my neighbors because of this one incident?
Who among us has not called an ex, neighbor, co worker, boss a disparaging name? Likely none of us could make that claim. At the same time *what* a person calls you during a fit of anger is revealing. I have known friends who have gotten upset with white people and the instant they get pissed at on of them it is "That cracker did this"---but that is because they have a racist orientation to begin with. Likewise a man who gets upset and calls a woman a "hoe" has a misogynist orientation to begin with, there is a difference in hurling an insult at a person than to make a derogatory reference to an entire group.
I get mad at you, I am likely to call you an a hole, a jerk a fool but that is because I have no latent hatred or disrespect for the group to which you belong. Does that make sense?
Porky3100~~Did you debate in high school and/or college? How many did you win? Good, I thought so.
I am going to do you and I a favor. I am going to put the 'hoe' in my tool shed. It has been established that you feel Zimmeman is a racist and a misogynist. Let's let it go at that ...it is your opinion/ belief.
As a professional in my field, I see a no win situation here so therefore, for your sake and my sanity, I am refraining from discussing any 'hoes' with you unless they are metal and good for digging in the soil.
You folks carry on.... I think I will just sit back with a fire hose at the ready...
Snoopy. I was never part of any debate team but as far as i am concerned the hoe stuff is dead.
Whoop dee do, I found snoopy ... SYG law, hmm. I do not think Zimmerman will be able to use this law and if he tries I doubt the jury will enforce the SYG law.
Today a tree trimming service came onto my gated property to trim one oak that had been trimmed a few months ago professionally. They phoned 20 mins in advance and it was explained to me that I had no right to keep them out. I explained the oaks had no dead growth on them and the only lines near tree was a cable tv line. She informed me that she and her company superceded all property rights and if I kept her out I would be facing felony charges. Well, dam*! I allowed them in and was informed that they were going to cut all green growth below electric wire to 8' below lines. That 4' of growth was allowed by oaks each year ... so on so on!
Oaks do not grow 4 feet a year, oh well.
I had at least 4' of air space below line. I am not a tree hugger but I felt bullied. I had no rights.
I believe that SYG laws have been passed because of property owners having no rights. I know an oak is not a person. In California if you SYG it will be unknown if you will face prison time. You are best to run out you back door and allow thieves to do as they please. I am not joking. Before i shot a person in my house I would try to run only because I know I would have to fight for my freedom in the justice system. Personally I' ld rather not shoot anyone, let them have what they want.
Hope this made sense...
Cali Patti~~well whoop dee doo to you too. That is quite the whopper of a story. I thought Florida took the cake when it came to strange laws but am changing my mind now. This tree company was hired by your power commission.
It seems that this tree trimming prune was talking out of the side of her mouth. I would have insisted that she get a warrant to come onto my private property and molest my oak tree. Why did they trim the oak to 8 feet below the power lines? Did they expect their high voltage wires to fall down or sag? The only way it will hurt your big ole oak is if they made large cuts. When a professional pruner makes those cuts, they will seal them with a paint sealer.
Cali, I hope you had your trusty camera out and took pics of the tree cutting. If your tree happens to meet its demise, I would charge them with tree slaughter. If California doesn't have such a law, I am sure Florida has one. Just do a copy and paste. That old sap should have realized that trees are living and fruit bearing. Can you image a squirrel without an acorn.
I think we should have a prayer vigil for your oak. BTW, Cali, you make more sense than anyone I know. LOL
The "slanguage" used by GZ in his JoeG My Space Page represents today's hood and gangsta culture and many of the problems that go along with it. There is an epidemic out there, and it is killing our children - it killed Trayvon Martin. This particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic, gangster culture has become the fashion. A good portion of it is foul, vile and very offensive. It also speaks to the dumbing down of the mass culture in general. The gangsta culture aspires to nothing more than rebellion crime and offers no solutions to lift anyone up. A gangster’s mentality is an inappropriate philosophy which involves drinking, smoking, hanging tough, selling drugs, selling sex and extortion or finding ways and means to make money illegally. Power, wealth and prestige are what these pukes are desperately seeking. The hallmarks of the gangsta lifestyle, which glorifies and glamourizes violence, drugs and misogyny is played out by their beloved rap idols, signals to them that emulating the lifestyle may be just the ticket to success. Gangsta culture has become a deadly virus ripping indiscriminately through our next generation, robbing millions of their potential. GZ apparently attempted to leave this culture behind, but the gangsta mentality was ever present in his mind and body - this was more than a teenage boy phase. He was 21 when he launched the site and it was accessed as late as 2010. It is a mentality that he lived and spoke. Indeed, every day he is reminded of his lifestyle by his gang related "play now pay later" tattoo. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57413331/arrest-records-shine-a-little-light-on-zimmerman/. http://mag.rankmytattoos.com/incredible-gang-tattoos-and-their-meanings.html.
Gangsters Anonymous is a 12-step program, based on Alcoholics Anonymous comprised of recovering gangsters who meet to help each other stay crime-free. "When nothing relieved our paranoia and fear we are ready to accept help." They believe the gangster mentality is a disease--a mental disorder. They are sick, they say. They suffer from a criminal mentality, they believe. http://gangstersanonymous.org/
That GZ was living his life of paranoia of fu*king punks and in fear of assholes who always got away is what brought GZ and Trayvon paths together that fateful night - taking GZ directly back to that which he attempted to abandon - his gangster mentality brought about by fear and paranoia. Along with Anger Management courses, maybe GZ should have joined GA too.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.