George, Trayvon and Other Trials and Tribulations
Sunday, May 6, 2012 at 6:33PM Lately, I’ve been pondering a few things about George Zimmerman and his victim, Trayvon Martin. When I’ve had the time, of course…
The Age Factor
On his February 26 recorded phone call to a Sanford Police Department dispatcher, George Zimmerman described Trayvon Martin as black and in his late teens after being asked. When he took the stand at his bond hearing, he apologized to Trayvon’s mother and father, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, and saying that he thought the boy was closer to his own age of 28. That, at best, is a 10-year age discrepancy — a huge difference. What intrigues me the most is that, from a distance, Trayvon looked like a teen; hence the description to the dispatcher. Surely, as the two men approached each other, it should have been even more apparent to Zimmerman that Trayvon was, in fact, a mere teenager, especially moments before the fatal shot was fired. In my opinion, it makes the apology superficial.
Clearly, Trayvon’s age will be a factor during the second-degree murder trial. Why did George contradict his own statement to the dispatcher about the boy’s age while on the stand? How will his defense attorney, Mark O’Mara, explain this faux pas to the jury? This is not an easy math problem to solve with tangents, cosines and mirrors.
Sunset came at 6:23 PM that day. Sixteen minutes later, at 7:09, George called the police. How long had he been tailing the teen in order to decide his approximate age? Certainly, once darkness fell, it should have been more difficult to make any sort of call regarding age, unless enough light was cast from street lamps, but still, it meant a clean enough look to respond to the dispatcher’s query regarding the youth’s age.
What made him tell the dispatcher that Trayvon was in his late teens? Why did he change his tune on the stand?
The Myspace Page From 2005
You can read the page here.
“I love the fact that I can still go back home and crash on my boys couch as if i had never left, I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he’s at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my ass pinched.”
Is Georgie Boy admitting that his pals do time in jail for him? They never rat him out? What sort of upstanding, law-abiding citizen allows his “friends” to take the blame? A hero?
“Im still free! The ex hoe tried her hardest, but the judge saw through it! Big Mike, reppin the Dverse security makin me look a million bucks, broke her down! Thanks to everyone for checkin up on me! Stay tuned for the A.T.F. charges……”
Ex hoe? How about it ladies?
“I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book… Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”
Does that sound racist? Does it prove anything? Can it be used against him in court?
Here’s what I’m hearing in the hood. Well, it’s not really any kind of hood, mind you. Call it word on the street. Zimmerman was only 21-years-old at the time of this particular Myspace page. What would you expect from a 21-year-old, right? It’s an odd question, though, because Trayvon was only 17 when he died and I’m hearing all sorts of excuses for homeboy Zimmerman acting that way when he was 21, but nothing in favor of Trayvon four years his junior at the time. Why was it OK for Zimmerman to act like a street-punk gangsta at 21, but not OK for Trayvon at 17, if, in fact, he acted that way at all the night he died? You see what I mean? What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander, right? Only this time, it cost a boy his life; hardly punishable by one year in jail, served by one of Joe G’s friends, the name Zimmerman went by on his Myspace page.
Here’s something else to consider. According to the Miami Herald Website, another one of Zimmerman’s Myspace pages under the username “datniggytb” was taken down last month. datniggytb? Huh? Why was it swiftly removed? Any ideas, folks? Could this have been factored into the arrest?
Personal Observations
A lot has been said about the donation site and other support pages set up by Zimmerman’s defense attorney. In my opinion, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. Yes, public funding will save Florida’s taxpayers a ton of money since he can no longer claim his client is indigent. Yes, it is a bit tacky, but there’s no reason why he or anyone else, for that matter, cannot ask for handouts. Ultimately, it’s up to you (and only you) to decide whether to fill his coffers or not, which leads me to…
Life is full of radicals. They come from the far left and right. On the left, there are those who would be very happy to proclaim that a vote against Barack Obama is racist. I’ve heard it myself. Do I believe it? Is there any truth to it? No way! We are a diverse nation, filled with liberals and conservatives, Republicans, Democrats and independents. When it comes to voting, ethnicity no longer plays a role. We vote for who we please.
There are those who believe that a donation to George Zimmerman’s defense fund is truly racist, too. I wholeheartedly disagree. While some of the money might come from white supremacists and bigots — true racists, indeed, there’s more to it than a simple explanation. For sure, Zimmerman’s going to get funds from the NRA, either by the organization itself or its members, and from gun supporters in general. That’s mostly because of “stand your ground” laws in place in several states. And, of course, the Second Amendment; the right to bear arms. This particular aspect has nothing to do with racism. Because the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case is such a complex issue, I don’t think it’s as black and white (pun intended) as a superficial explanation or excuse. It’s much deeper. It could be either/or, or it could be both/and, if you understand my meaning. We must keep our minds open. Not all of Zimmerman’s supporters are white any more than all of Trayvon’s supporters are black. Besides, Zimmerman describes himself as Hispanic/Latino on his old Myspace page. I look beyond his race and see a cop wannabe who grew up reading way too many comic books. Nothing more.
On a more personal note, I have been noticeably absent from my blog. I am not trying to elicit any sympathy or anything, but my father suffered a stroke. He has been in the hospital all week and I have many important family obligations to attend to. My mind is focused on mostly that, plus other very personal things going on in my life. SnoopySleuth has been doing an exemplary job of maintaining my blog and I appreciate it more than she probably knows. All I can do is thank her for her efforts, and thank you for your continued support. I promise, things will loosen up, but it may take a bit of time. Soldier on!
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Human Interest, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Seminole County Jail, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, State Attorney Angela Corey, Sybrina Fulton, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 2 References 
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Reader Comments (161)
Cherokee,
I don't know if I am ready to label Zimmerman as a gangster until I know a little more about him. Like you, the whole rap music scene and gangsta scene really annoys me. I think that it is degrading, and in many cases downright dumb.
Our youngest, good student and law school bound listens to that stuff. When she was in high school, I came home a few times and she had that stuff playing and I tried the voice of reason. That didn't work so I just banned it all together. One day she mistakenly left one of he CD's in the car and I literally broke the CD in pieces because the rule was the music is offensive to us the gown folks.
But lets talk about a few things. Our daughter is very articulate , soft spoken and a had working student. She cares deeply for the underprivileged and there have been times when she has literally forced me to stop the car so that we can hand out money and or food to the homeless. Hardly a gangster.
I think that there is a dynamic among our young that distrusts the establishment and to an extent the police. They see older people as out of touch and in some cases, it is not the literally interpretation of the music and words but the dynamic interactions with the young and us old people. And you know what? When I was her age,m my parents thought that the music that I listened to ( Eath Wind and fire, WAR, The Isley Brothers, Sky and the family Stone-- my parents just KNEW that this music compelled us to do drugs and that we wold end up dug addicts.
While living in Wisconsin, I got invited to a few parties in Madison where i was probably the only black person at the party. Well to my amazement not only were they playing rap music but just about every kid male and female knew every single lyric to the songs. That was in the early 90's and rap was much more innocuous then but today I still think a lot of white kids listen to that stuff at parties.
Ok back to Zimmerman. I totally agree with you that he is a wanna be -something- and I agree with you too that he had paranoid issues. There is also something else. The incompleteness. His work history is spotty and there are gaps of unemployment. While technically a student for a associates degree, his life does not appear to be headed in any direction and just when he should be focusing on SOMETHING, all of his energy is invested in a neighborhood watch in a place where he is not even a home owner.
We will see how he turns out but my hunch is that we have a person who does not have a lot going for himself in life. Those tnd to be the most capable of say-- demeaning women and other groups.
Ah and Karen
Re:
Is a cop profiling if he picks up a call on an armed robbery on two black guys in a grey sedan and decides to follow two black guys in a mid-blue sedan, who otherwise fit the description? Where do we place these lines within the definition of "reasonable"?
In a way you answered your own question but I would say this--when one is suspected of the majority of the description should be more than being black. i.e a tall black man with tattoo of left arm. And I feel the same for whites as well. Don't stop me just because I am blackand in a green car.
Forgive me if you both understand because it most certainly is between only two of you, unfortunately some do not understand why "Porky3100" is being addressed "Porky Pig" as it Can be cause for less interest in reading, or commenting for fear of being demeaned. If you are friends and it is just joking around. Then, fine it is!
FYI New Puppy, its more demeaning to be falsely accused of racism. Its over unless there's going to be scab picking. MYOB, 'k?
Of course, Sherry, I really hoped you were kidding, but guess not. MMOB??? You Bet!! For me to be so intrusive on a private blog with you folks has been terribly inconsiderate and absurd. Best choice is for someone like myself to leave because I will not shed my skin from day to day just to serve. It's been a long time coming. Finally?? !! Well, please breathe a sigh of relief and may there be Abundant Jehovah's Blessings to you of the most knowledgeable and wise.
Porky - I do not blame our young adults for listening to rap music and I don't believe by doing so makes them "gangstas" - it is no different than rock n' roll in our parents' day and age - and I should have left that one sentence out in my comment because it misled you and probably others. What I was truly trying to get across by my comment is that GZ has been rolling with gangstas and has a gangsta mentality. He discloses on his web page that he should have been in jail doing a year with his homies, but because of his friendship with the hood, he wasn't "pinched." He sports a gangsta tattoo. And well, everything else you already know. Whether he has "moved on up" is one thing but his mentality still shows through. The fact that he posted on his"therealgeorgezimmerman" web page seeking monies the graffiti "Long Live Zimmerman" spray painted on the Hale Black Cultural Center on the night of the anniversary of the killing of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. IMO demonstrates that. What annoys me is that there are those who are brushing off this mentality as being a "young adult" who is merely posturing for his friends. They are entitled to do that - but it is Hogwash - Nope, sorry, not accepting that. The fear and paranoia that everyone thinks like he does or used to is partly what caused him to be in the position he is in today. He looked at Trayvon, and others who walked through his little community, in the same manner as he looked at the "mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin)" http://www.myspace.com/onlytobekingagain. He admits to participating in "drive bys" hitting on mexicans - which is actually no differently than what he did to Trayvon - just a different location while using a different persona - instead of hanging with the gangstas, he had a title of "captain.". But IMO, the same gangsta mentality. I have no doubt that this correlation will be brought out at trial by the prosecution.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
Without taking sides, it is kind of hard to MYOB on a public blog. When I saw the term "Porky Pig", my first inclination was to chime in and defend my fellow blogger. But since I have no allegiances with either blogger at this point, and seeing that Porky was doing quite well defending himself, I did not join into the ruckus. This isn't the only blog that I post at, but I must admit that this is the only one where other posters will routinely lash out at someone for holding a specific opinion rather than just acknowledging that we all are entitled to our opinions. I see nothing wrong with someone correcting another when they are misstating a fact, misinterpreting the law, or even going so far as to explain why you feel a person's opinion may not conform with the facts or law, but to ridicule or be snarky at someone for their opinion is a whole different ballgame IMO. Hence my caveat. Just sayin...
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
Well the Porky Pig reference did catch me off guard for sure but I do realize that things do get heated on blogs. I chose not to respond to it at the time because I wanted to keep the focus on the main point. I understand the point that New Puppy is trying to make as I too have left blog sites where the tone had degenerated to name calling. Sherry, could you kindly point out the post where you were called a racist? I have seen you post that more than once now and do believe that in your mind, you perceive that someone called you a racist here.
I remember when I first started blogging on the Casey Anthony case. I watched as comment threads grew and grew, and verbal darts began to spread among the commenters. Wow! I like to think we are a good, fine group of people. Granted, we all won't see eye-to-eye, but God forbid that we'd ever stoop to a level where personal conflicts trump logic. Nope, that would never happen here. Would it?
MUAH, New Puppy~
BTW, I'm not going to follow this comment line any longer. Its degenerating now...My blog is the place for convos on the race issue and any kvetches anyone has against me. I'm sick of the attacks here and was trying to show the attacker how it feels to have ugly things said of him-did he learn? Probably not. Now everyone can rest assured Ms Nasty-a** won't be addressing ANYONE who has accused me of racism and such here but will be glad to at my blog.
Now, ya'll-MYOB! Be respectful of Dave, 'k?
Thanks, Dave....
Frankly, I don't go for the Porky Pig thing either, and have wondered just where it came from. I've parried swords with Sherry before and we've recovered because we maintain mutual respect (although I've had to bite my tongue? No, fingers! at times over some sweeping political statements), but there's a real fondness there; I was hoping that somewhere in a comment I had somehow missed there was a tacit understanding between Porky and Sherry that the "Porky Pig" thing was OK with Porky, because otherwise it is just overtly demeaning. Nope, can't find that comment...hmmm.
Welcome back, Dave! Hope your Dad is OK....?
Cherokee,
I completely agree with you that some people are finding a way to brush Zimmerman's behavior off in one form of another. I would even take that one step further. Omara has made an implicit threat to expose the content of Travons social media posting if the prosecution raises the conduct of Zimmerman social media content. I would think that the way a 16-17 year old conducts himself on social media should be significantly different than a married 25 year old on the social media.
Porky - O'Mara can go that route at trial - try to discredit Trayvon- but I believe that he risks offending the jury. The "reasonable person" standard in jury instructions is what I try to always be conscious of. Would a reasonable person compare a barely 17 year old's social media the same as a grown adult's gangsta involvment and social media? I don't think so and I don't believe O'Mara will go that route - but hey, he surprised me with opening a Facebook account to poll the public. Times are "a changin" and I could be very surprised come trial.
As far as GZ - he was an adult with a gangsta past (or present, I don't know) who saw the need to carry heat in his waistband. His own paranoias are what compelled him that night and he ended up shooting a minor. As an adult, that was a wrong judgment in my opinion right there. What is left for me to see is to what extent he has lied to try and get his conduct covered by the SYG law.
Here is something interesting. Open up the HausofGuns video below and stop it at the 5:23 mark which is right before he loads the clip into the gun. Open up the 911 tape below and stop it at 2:40 mark. Listen to the sound of the clip being loaded by HausofGuns and then listen to the sound at about the 2:42 mark,and tell me what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzqnxKf ... re=related
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
I want to add to my comment above about GZ - IMO, if the prosecution can show that GZ lied about any aspect of what went down that night - just one detail - then it would be proof positive to me that he knew what he did was wrong and felt the need to cover it up. All it will take for me is one lie because his side of the story is all we have except for forensics and witness statements. In true self-defense situations, there is no need to lie.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
I want you all to read and heed.... I was so proud that Porky3100 and Sherry called a TRUCE that I contacted Dave... I communicate with Dave several times during the day... Now I come in here today and am very disheartened to see that one comment would open up a whole can of worms ... It is not any easy task to moderate another person's blog. I asked Dave to come in here today and leave a comment. He was busy heading back to the hospital to see his dad. Porky3100 is a good friend of mine on Facebook... I also called on him to come in here last evening and respond to Cherokee as I have no idea about rap music and gangsta lingo. God love him, he helped me. Sherry and I correspond behind the scenes as well as on my blog. She is one of the kindest caring people I know and she is not a racist in any way shape or form.
I copied and pasted the following... Now why were these comments not taken into consideration before opening up that can of worms?
Great post, Porky 3100. I apologize for misjudging you.
May 8, 2012 | Sherry
No problem Sherry. I was pretty snippy at you too. If you do not know if my now I can get snippy at times and for that you have my apology ----- until my next snip :)
May 8, 2012 | Porky3100
Ahhhh I love reading you two....Sherry and Porky3100... let's say that you add some real zest to this blog... Hugs both of you...
May 8, 2012 | SnoopySleuth
Snoopy - All - I left the Porky Pig comment alone. What I addressed was the "MYOB" comment and that someone felt the need to leave the blog because of it. I stand behind what I said.
I am more aghast to find out that you actually conspire to decide what to write in the comment section of this blog? Really? Dave? Well, jeez, there ya go. Had I received a call last night, I would have known not to express my thoughts.
Dave - hope your dad is doing better and please don't feel the need to respond to this while dealing with your family.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
So, now when I receive a reply to my comments from Porky - are they really Snoopy's thoughts or visa versa? I don't know, this kinda unnerves me. At the very least, I need a co-blogger to buddy with so we can discuss how we are going to comment.
Maybe I am getting a little over worked up about this, but somehow it just seems wrong.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
Whew ! Lot of thoughts swirling in my mind since reading all the comments. IMO. GZ's absolutely poor judgment due to his illusions resulted in the death of a seventeen year old child. The stand your ground defense will not work. How this man was able to get a carry permit after his history is beyond me. He should not have even been able to buy a gun based on the previous charges which resulted in his attending anger management classes.
CherokeeNative~~ you just don't want to let this go.... I do NOT conspire with anyone regarding the comments. I asked Porky3100 to respond to you for the simple reason, I did not know what in hell you were talking about... it looked like gibberish to me about ganstas and rap music and AA meetings for ganstas... I wouldn't touch your comment with a ten foot pole so I asked Porky3100 to respond and he did one fine job...
Maybe you would like to moderate this blog and get a taste of just how easy it is to try and please the masses all of the time. It would be my pleasure to watch you have a go at it.
Just for the record, I have a lot of experience under my belt as far as moderating forums and blogs so am used to sarcasm etc. Until Dave asks me to leave.... I am not going anywhere but you can always tender your resumé.
Dave has a lot on his plate so stop belly aching to him...
CherokeeNative. I think I will by-pass your last comment while hoping you continue to comment as I strongly agree with your opinion regarding the GZ case and issues resulting from that case.
Okay, time to breathe.....smell the flowers and blow out the candles guys.
Newbie ~~seeing your comment is like a breath of fresh air.... thank you, thank you!!
Cherokee,
Whoa. You may be reading too much into this but here is what happened last evening. I logged on the Facebook and Snoopy had messaged me asking if I could chime in on the last post by you. I simply responded that I would thinking that there was probably some issue between the two of you. But there was absolutely -no- discussion beyond that.
I agree with you that this type of ganging up would be highly unethical. I really do not know anyone personally on here except for Dave. Snoopy and I recently became friends on Facebook within the past few days.
Of all the posts on here regarding Travon, I am more closely aligned with you than anyone.
If you are on Facebook, I would love to friend you or talk via email sometime as I like your perspective.
My email address and also Facebook invite address is henderson3100@cfl.rr.com
Snoopy - "I just won't leave it alone"???? This is my first comment about this subject in response to your comment. What have I carried on about that I am not leaving alone? The MYOB was the first comment today - wasn't there before. I just learned that you are calling people to respond to my emails and commented.
No one, and certainly not me, is expecting you to tender your resignation. That is not what I said. Why do you always, and I mean always, take something I say and twist it? I said, Wow, you actually conspire on how to respond to a blogger's comments? That's what I said. I would think it would be nice to know exactly who's thoughts were going into a reply to my comments - that is my point - not "managing a blog." I don't understand why you would feel the need to find someone to respond to my comment. It is what it is - it didn't request a reply. That Porky (or anyone else for that matter) felt the desire to respond was fine with me, and I responded to his reply. But now I find out that you compelled him to respond because you didn't understand? Read what you are typing and try to make sense of it Snoopy - you aren't "managing" a blog - you are controlling it now that you have brought the subject up. Unless I am breaking Dave's blog rules, I don't understand why you don't let the discussions be just that and let people reply when they feel like it rather than calling someone to respond. The whole concept is bizzare. Suffice it to say that from here on out, when I post a comment and receive a reply, I can assume you have instigated it and put in your two cents. Thanks.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
Seminole Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester scheduled the next hearing for the case on Aug. 8, when a trial date is expected to be set.
Judge accepts Zimmerman's not guilty plea, sets August court date
CherokeeNative, please do not assume that if I respond to your comments that ANY
ONE has put their two cents in......lol....I speak only what is on MY mind !
Carry on folks.... I have a trial that started this morning and my blog to take care of....
I will check back later....
Thank you Porky and Newbie. Since have I have been labeled not to "leave it alone", I might as well address the elephant in the room. What appears to be the underlying problem here is that I have been very vocal in voicing my opinion that GZ is guilty of 2nd degree murder. I have relied upon his past, his own statements, his family's statements, the facts that are known facts, the law, and the "reasonable person" standard to support those opinions. Snoopy apparently feels the need to discredit my posts in hopes of shedding a better light on GZ - I can only come to this conclusion because most of her posts lean pro-GZ. Or maybe she has this uncontrollable urge to play the devil's advocate...I don't know and don't care because I believe we all are entitled to look at this case and form our own opinions, much like a jury would do. My issue is that I would like to know when the moderator of the blog is contacting people to help her respond to my posts. It's only fair.
Cherokee,
I did not read that Snoopy asked for my input to support her position because I never told her my position prior to writing the post ( nor would I have done it anyway). My take was that she felt that by posting-- it would lead to some confrontation between the two of you , which she was trying to avoid.
I think that you read into this a little much but no to worry as my wife will attest that I am forever doing that exact same thing!
Porky (and Snoopy) - I encourage anyone to discuss with me the "other side" of this case if they believe I am wrong on an issue or point - so long as it is substantiated by the facts and/or the law - or if it is just your opinion, point that out. I am not argumentative when it comes to this case. In the end, I could be dead wrong and Trayvon actually was trying to kill GZ, or some other factor that would cause GZ to go free. That is the whole purpose of even participating on the blog about this case - to discuss the issues. I hope that Snoopy will realize that any disagreements we have had have been over critizing my opinions without facts or law to back it up, or now this issue. I am sorry that she felt the need to call you Porky because she was afraid of a confrontation - what would I have confronted her for? Or what would she confront me for? My post was an opinion relating to the JoeG web site and his gangsta affiliation/mentality. Either you agree or you don't...no argument.
Anyway, thanks for explaining - I believe by talking it through, we will be able to resolve it - I mean after all, I was just viewing Snoopy's recipe page a couple days ago. I am a nice person - or so I think I am.
I think everyone here is a nice person, and I am glad I found this blog because the discussions of the case are so good.
If it can be shown in court that there are sounds of a gun being prepared for firing on the 911 tape, I would imagine that this would be very strong evidence for the prosecution. If this is true, then in O'Mara's place I would be trying hard for a plea bargain.
My thoughts on the case are also aligned closely with yours, Cherokee, but you are a better thinker and communicator than I am! What really gets me is that the evening started with a 17-year-old boy, loved by family and friends, walking home in the early evening in a good neighborhood (despite the rash of burglaries) from an innocent errand and ended with that boy dead. In between, there seems to be very good information on what was going on except for 1 minute, or perhaps 2. GZ's claim of innocence hangs on what went on during that very short time. In that time, he claims that Trayvon suddenly changed from a young, gangly boy who was trying to get away from a stranger who was following him to a violent, relentless killer, who overpowered him and started smashing his head into the ground.
Even if this did happen, and he can prove it, the question of why Trayvon converted from kid on an errand to violent killer remains.
Molly - did you compare the HausofGuns video with the sound heard in the 911 tape above? Just curious since you mention sounds of a gun being prepared. Just curious as to what you heard?
Cherokee.
I am at work now and will not be able to play the audio until I get home.
Molly, you just hit the nail on the proverbial. Why would a 17 kid with no history of violence suddenly attack a complete stranger.
I can think of two very logical reasons.
1. a Gun was pulled on him and he fought for his life
2. He was cornered in the dark by a stranger who had followed him for sometime and needed to fight to get away.
Either way, I fault the holder of the gun who unwisely decided to stalk the teen.
I have been telling my second amendment advocates the following. Sure you have every right to carry a weapon so long as you are licensed to do so. Know that if you negligently or even mistakenly take the life of an unarmed person--you risk the same criminal penalties as say a drunk driver or negligent driver does when he or she kills some one while operating a vehicle.
Cherokee, I listened to your first youtube link, the 911 call, but the second one didn't work for me. It just brought up youtube, no particular video. There were quite a few haus of guns videos. The 911 tape has a lot of background noise, but the sound you mentioned at 2:42 is a definite sound of something mechanical. It is not a car door being opened or closed. I don't have the comparison, but I would imagine that this sound has been identified by the prosecution. It is very distinct, and distinctive.
I agree, Porky. He was carrying the gun and, if the sound at 2:42 is the sound of a gun being prepared to fire, then what exactly was he planning to do with the gun? He had no reason to believe at that time that his life was about to be endangered (if, indeed, his life was in danger as he claims).
Porky and Molly: Sorry the above link for HausofGuns is screwy. Here's the right link. It is the same gun that GZ used by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzqnxKfZ74&feature=related
Thank you for the corrected link, Cherokee. I listened to the sound of the gun being loaded, and it does sound very similar to the sound on the 911 tape. (For anyone else who wants to listen, you can just slide the bar to the time you want, without listening to the interminable review of this gun!)
I am dying to know now whether expert testimony identifying that sound is part of the prosecution's case. Isn't the evidence supposed to be made public any day now?
I have zilch experience or knowledge with guns...but aside from these two recordings being recorded by different devices, they sound like the same mechanism. If the prosecution can show that what we are hearing is indeed GZ preparing his gun - this is just one more reason GZ's claim of self-defense is out the window.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
Yes, my understanding is that we should be seeing discovery soon. Finally - I am tired of going over the same old over and over - need more to digest.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
I'm like you, Cherokee, no experience with guns. To me, the sounds are very similar.
On the 911 tape, the sound came only about 20 seconds after the dispatcher's instruction not to follow. (My interpretation of "We don't need you to do that," given the sharp tone of voice, a departure from the more relaxed tone of voice previously used, is definitely an instruction. I do realized that the dispatcher is not a police officer and cannot give orders.)
Cherokee- One problem that I foresee if with a million dollars ( sure to be donated) The defense will simply hired an "expert" to testify that those sounds could have been something else. Think Casey defense.
"Molly" above is me - left the "K" out when I entered my ID.
Does anyone know whether GZ's phone was hands-free? It would have been hard to load the gun while speaking to the dispatcher if it was not.
I'm sure you're right, Porky, about the defense experts. And maybe they would be right that the sound was something else. But they will have to come up with a story of what the sound was!
Yea - you are right. Even if the prosecution brought in an expert to say that this noise was GZ preparing his gun, the defense will bring in their own expert to rebutt that. And truth is, there is no way of absolutely knowing for sure. But if the prosecution does use it as an inference, hopefully along with the other evidence they have, it would be just one more thing to convince the jury. Because if the prosecution could (which they can't) prove beyond a doubt that this was him preparing his gun - they would have charged 1st degree premeditated murder IMO. Wishful thinking (sigh).
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
MollyK - I hold my phone in my ear/shoulder all the time so that I can multi-task. :-) But that is a good point.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
To Whom it may concern...
I will also not be commenting on this post any longer. I am following Sherry and making my exit. When the documents start to arrive, I will be posting them on my own blog where both sides of this case can be discussed freely without repercussions.
Dave, I tried but it is not working out as you can see by the above comments ( if you can find the time to read them) God willing you will soon be back to take over. You are always welcome to visit me at my own sandbox. Now back to watching Steven Powell's trial live stream.. see ya.. Snoopy
I am wondering what type of ammo GZ was using the night Martin was killed, what type he used in target practice and how often he went to the "gun range" or whatever they call it in Florida.
Hi Snoopy
I enjoy your blog too but please don't leave Dave's blog. I think you have a very good way of analyzing things and I think you try to get along with everybody. I don't know why all of this snapping at things started and what anyone is trying to accomplish by snapping at anyone.
I do not like the stand your ground law. Other people on this blog are free to defend the stand your ground law as the best law ever written and their opinions would not offend me. My opinion on George Zimmerman's guilt or innocence is not strong enough to be offended by anyone's opinion on the subject. We are all just speculating since none of us has all of the evidence yet.
I think those of us who comment on this blog are reasonable adults. We are free to disagree without taking things as a personal affront. I think you are to be commended for your sensitivity to other people's feelings by asking someone to respond to a point on some "cultural" trend that you didn't understand. I don't understand today's music either.
Anyway, Snoopy, I hope you will reconsider leaving. I think of you and Dave as personal friends and don't want to lose either of you.
Newbie. GZ was using hollow-point bullets. I don't know your answers to the rest.
Caveat: These are my personal opinions based upon my own interpretation of the facts and evidence that we have to date. I am sharing my conclusions concerning speculative topics. Under no circumstances should you interpret my comments as challenging your own opinions and/or conclusions.
I am informed and sincerely offer apology for having inserted all comment which caused the most recent upheavel here on this blog. I have been trying to listen to some special music, no longer made available, so there's no doubt when something special is taken away from me, I have somewhere done a serious wrong.
I also just watched the video of another the young girl , a beautiful child, who killed herself because of bullying and heard her parents remark "words can hurt" "words can kill" how sad and how true. The harm hurtful words can do is not just to children, it is to adults as well.