A Loaded Question
Sunday, April 1, 2012 at 10:54AM A lot of new information has come up since my last post about Trayvon Martin. Some true, some false; with some of it somewhere in between. I will only delve into a few things that are clear to me.
To begin with, I will state with complete confidence that George Zimmerman did not work in the capacity of Neighborhood Watch anything during the early evening hours of February 26, the date Trayvon was shot to death by him — by his own admission. Remember that, because there should be no chance to back away from his pronouncement later on by claiming it was an accidental shooting. Nope, he did it and then invoked the “Stand Your Ground” law minutes later, soon after the Sanford Police Department arrived.
During his 9-1-1 call to report a possible drug induced, up to no good, stranger in the hood, Zimmerman made it clear that he was sizing the guy up. He complained that “these assholes always get away.” The cop wannabe tailed Trayvon, even after he was advised not to. This impulsive action rattled the young Trayvon. Wouldn’t you think that, in his capacity as head of the watch, Zimmerman would know the rules? If anyone was supposed to, it was clearly him — the self-appointed captain of the entire Retreat at Twin Lakes. He was the head dude; master of his enclave. It was his to command, and he most certainly put in the most courageous performance of his life that night. Bravo, George! Only he killed an innocent person, a young Black teenager. As a White/Latino man, depending on which one suits him best, does that make him a racist? I don’t know. Did he profile Trayvon? Yes, absolutely, but did he do it strictly based on color? That’s tough to say. I’m inclined to think he did it for his own selfish reasons more than anything else. He was out to rid his narrow-minded world of demons on the prowl. Demons that didn’t play by his rules.
Let’s look at what his rules should have been — the Neighborhood Watch ones he failed to follow — the ones that would have kept his blood from boiling through his veins that night:
Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous. Patrol members can be equipped for their duties. For example, flashlights or searchlights are necessary for night patrols. Many mobile patrols use cell phones or two-way radios to contact a citizen-manned base station, which in turn contacts law enforcement officials when necessary. Remember your partnerships and ask for donations from local businesses. [Neighborhood Watch Manual: USAonWatch - National Neighborhood Watch Program 20/37]
Clearly, he ignored the rules of the manual he was obligated to follow. He emboldened himself by surreptitiously promoting himself from private to sergeant to lieutenant to captain, most likely in one fell swoop. Now an officer, he became confident enough to mete out his own form of justice because, in addition to that, he had the power of his gun. It was the gun that enabled him to become the zealous superhero he never was, but always wanted to be. He kind of reminds me of the movie Death Wish, only he’s no Paul Kersey, the character played by the late Charles Bronson. Kersey was a tough guy through-and-through. Zimmerman was only tough when he was packing.
§
By now, most of us have seen the video of a handcuffed (but not arrested) Zimmerman entering the Sanford Police Department, sans blood, bandages, nor any discernible injuries to his head. No blood could be seen on his clothing, including his chest, back and arms. Granted, the video is not Hollywood quality, but what’s most important is what it will fail to do in court. If he is charged, the video will do nothing to help prove that he had been pummeled by the teen.
We also have the word of Richard Burke, the Fort Lauderdale funeral home operator who took Trayvon’s remains after it was released by the medical examiner. He said that when he inspected the body, it was in “pristine” shape, minus the gunshot wound to the chest. There were no scratches or cuts on his body, and that won’t bide well for Zimmerman, either. With no wounds, there’s no evidence of any kind of physical altercation.
§
The Orlando Sentinel is now reporting that:
Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.
By now, we’ve heard some of the neighbors’ 9-1-1 calls. On one of them, we could hear someone crying for help until the fatal crack of the bullet. Then, an eerie silence fell.
Owen listened to that 9-1-1 tape of the screams and compared it to the voice from Zimmerman’s own 9-1-1 call. By using software called Easy Voice Biometrics, he determined that the two voices were not the same person. Owen told the Sentinel that, “As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it’s not Zimmerman.”
§
In my opinion, all of the above information does not paint a rosy picture for George Zimmerman. While that information is what I would consider evidence, I have something that’s been giving me a very itchy finger for a couple of days now. Oh, I know it was legal for Zimmerman to carry a concealed weapon. I know he had every right to be inside that gated community. I also understand his concern for safety in the neighborhood. While I question why he didn’t just roll down his window, identify himself and state his case, there was something more sinister lurking in his mind. He was out to gun himself a bad guy whether he knew it at the time or not. Why do I say that? The answer is simple and it’s been staring right at us.
For everyone who’s ever watched the TV show COPS, law enforcement personnel are tickled pink when they take a bad ass out of circulation. When they confiscate a gun like Zimmerman’s, they look for one thing first. Yup, you got it…
The chamber. Zimmerman’s gun must have had a bullet in the chamber because, when it came out of his waistband, it was fired. For crying out loud, the safety wasn’t even on. Doesn’t that mean he came ready for a kill? Did Trayvon?
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Reader Comments (73)
Zimmerman ****ed himself the moment he engaged after he was told not to.
This was completely preventable.
http://hammerheadcombatsystems.org/2012/03/24/the-discretionary-mindset/
He sure did, Hammerhead7. This was a nutcase in action. Thanks for your link.
Good post. I think I'm finally getting off the fence on this case but cautiously. I do think that the moment Zimmerman said he thought the young man had something in his pocket that he readied himself for "self-defense" in his mindset. A cocked gun can make one mighty brave!
No injuries on Trayvon's body, eh? Not even on the back of his hand where his fist would hit Zimmerman's nose. Not even a bruise, because there would have to be a bruise if he hit hard enough to break it. No blood splatter. If they were wrestling for the gun and it goes off then blood would be on Zimmerman's shirt.
Things are adding up but not in Zimmerman's favor. I understand that the evidence was being collected by the prosecutor and was on its way to the grand jury when the race baiters showed up. Shame on the Sanford police for dropping the ball on this one.
So, Sherry, now you see why I'm taking the stance that Zimmerman's story isn't believable. I'm not doing it just because of the race issue. In my opinion, he went hunting that night and bagged himself a hoodie. I don't trust a word of what he's spewing through his family and friends. I feel he had an alibi ready to be used in case something like this occurred.
Unreal. great catch Dave!
Thank you, Porky3100! I wonder what the police thought, if anything, but to me, it had to be ready to fire. There were no timeouts. No time to work the safety, either.
Hi Dave
Another great post. us usual!!!
I was particularly glad to see that a voice expert ruled out Zimmerman as the one crying for help. I like factual evidene that is conclusive. I have tended to believe from the beginning that Trayvon was the victim but some of my more right wing friends who watch ultra conservative TV and listed to ultra conservative radio have been telling me things like the liberal media have been doing all kinds of things to distort the "fact" that Trayvon was the aggressor and that he was suspended from school because they found a large quantity of drugs and other contraband in his school locker.and that he was taller than and weighed 100 pounds more than poor Zimmerman. I said to one of my reasonable friends who believed that Trayvon was tall enough and heavy enough to intimidate poor Zimmerman that I had heard that Trayvon was taller than Zimmerman but that Zimmerman weighed about 100 pounds more. My friend said that he didn't understand why the media couldn't be factually accurate in their comments about height and weight. The coroner could have weighed and measured Trayvon and the police could have weighed and measured Zimmerman. Height and weight are easily measured by objective standards. Why do some parts of the media come to opposite conclusions from the other parts of the media about something as clear as height and weight.
At least now, there appears to be some objective basis for saying whose voice was not calling for help. The expert's qualifications seem impressive enough. Has any equally qualified expert come up with the opposite conclusion concerning the voice? I can easily understand why those conducting the investigation might not consider it wise to release bits and pieces of what they have found yet. I do hope very much that they have the means to get facts such as height and weight, blood spatter, and DNA evidence which can be measured objectively. Also, I hope that the tapes of the police station arrival can be enhanced enough to confirm or deny Zimmerman's injuries.
Thank you, Amber.
I certainly don't think Trayvon's youthful indiscretions have anything to do with discussing his death. To me, that's tantamount to saying JFK deserved to die for cheating on Jackie. Huh?
As for conservative and liberal slants, both sides are guilty of it. NBC manipulated 9-1-1 soundbites to convict Zimmerman in the media. Fox? Well, Bill O'Reilly thinks Martin's past is fair game. Personally, I hate every one of them that plays games with the public. The story itself should have nothing to do with being a Democrat or Republican. Even the NRA is washing their hands of Zimmerman. This shouldn't be a political issue at all. It is about the death of a teenage boy and the dude who was responsible for it. I'm waiting for one of the candidates to get an endorsement from Skittles and Arizona iced tea.
I understand that Black organizations are up in arms, and I also expect them to take a liberal position, but for the sake of peace, it's downright dumb to play the political card here, but most notably by Dems and Repubs. This is a crime investigation, and it has nothing to do with who is in office. Except, of course, when Sanford and state attorneys play games. Heck, the governor, a staunch Republican, appointed the special prosecutor. That's called getting the ball rolling.
As for the voice examiners, this was a study the Sentinel requested. If Zimmerman is arrested, the defense will have to do their own, and so will the state. While the Sentinel report is promising, it won't hold up in court. My guess is that each side will have their own experts and just like in the Anthony trial, the spin doctors will be out in force.
Dave~ ~this is one great post!! I was ready to sign off in discussing this whole fiasco any further after watching the video of Piers Morgan and Touré but you have peaked my interest once again. The wheels are turning in this old noggin again in spite of the fact that I am NOT an American citizen.
Now that you have shown us the rules that apply to Neighborhood Watch individuals, I can see why Zimmerman's brother said that Z was not on neighborhood watch but on his way to Target. This covers Z in the fact that he was not breaking the rules by carrying a concealed weapon because he was not out patrolling the streets. It would therefore allow Z to be within his rights to carry a concealed weapon and be covered by the Stand Your Ground law if he had just been on his way to the store and was confronted by an individual who threatened his life.
Zimmerman's father and brother are trying to do damage control but they are describing scenarios that are not facts to try and make excuses for Z's actions. They are trying to twist what really took place and give Z an excuse for killing Trayvon in self-defense. Their stories are lame and cannot be substantiated from what I have learned.
Zimmerman broke several rules on the night of Feb 26th while in the capacity of Neighborhood watch as per the rules you provided. Did you notice that Z wore a red jacket? The Guardian Angels wear read jacket. Coincidence?
The following is strictly my opinion but it has crossed my mind.... Did Zimmerman's father have any pull in getting Sanford PD to go easy on his son? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
I hope that I have made a bit of sense in this comment. If not, Touré would say that I am just a stupid Canadian. I wonder if he has ever heard tell of history books and people who take an interest in other countries. There is also a sizable black population in Britain as well as Canada. I wonder if that crossed Touré's mind.
Dave, once again , thank you for giving my brain matter a workout and making the creative juices flow once again.
Thanks, Snoopy! I know that the Piers Morgan and Touré tassle really irked you. I know. I wasn't impressed, either, and it's no way to discuss such a tragedy. The focus here should be on Trayvon, and not on who spent more time on the planet and where.
The thing that most urprised me about the evidence we've been privy to is the police video of Zimmerman. That's not going to help him and I'm sure his attorneys will fight to have it tossed if he ever faces a trial for anything.
As for Zimmerman's family and friends, the damage is already done. He pulled the trigger and killed someone. I don't think that any amount of sweet talk is going to exonerate him, especially because those people are explaining the events as if they were right there, witnessing everything. Talk about bias.
Well, I've got to get ready for my sleep study. Thank you again. I'm glad this is a stimulating discussion.
Dave, yes, I can understand your viewpoint as well as others who say there was a rush to judgement, like some of the "ultra-conservative" (huh?-that would be Alec Jones, not Rush or Hannity), eh, conservative actually, talkingheads and bloggers. "White" hispanic is race baiting. Have you ever heard the term before? I haven't and my step-son is half hispanic. So, that coming from you is a bit surprising.
[I meant the person, not the media. Depending on which way the wind blows, Zimmerman may swing one way or the other while playing the ethnicity card to his advantage.]
Zimmerman was not on the hunt until he saw his prey. I wouldn't doubt that as he was telling the dispatcher that "they" always get away was the moment he cocked his gun. What I cannot say for sure is that Zimmerman was racially motivated in shooting Trayvon. It appears that way but I think he just wanted to bag a "bad guy" and be the neighborhood hero. He probably got quite a rush when he successfully helped the police get the bad guys before.
I think the only racists here are those making it an issue before this goes to court. We know that some cases take time to get all of the informaton together. Look at the Casey Anthony case-it took "forever" before she was arrested for the murder of her daughter. This case was only a month old-just beginning. Had the case been dropped, then I could see, and agree with, all the fuss.
I don't think that Zimmerman was initially racist, but once he found his target, it may have played a role. I think it's totally wrong for any media pundits to amplify it into something it may not be. Whatever, it will come out in the final report from the state attorney's office.
Absolutely excellent analysis Dave, you have pinpointed what is most important in the action George Zimmerman took against a young man who he decided did not measure up to "Zimmerman's" description of a decent human being. I agree with you Dave in your every word.
? has there been any word that Zimmerman had ever been diagnosed retarded which may be used in his defense.
Thank you, New Puppy. I hit on a few of the things that intrigued me the most. I am convinced that George Zimmerman acted out his fantasy of being a Rambo-type hero, only it backfired. Actually, it ended up much worse than that. He conjured up imaginary enemies and took this one out on something that was not a figment of his imagination. It was real, not a computer game, and Trayvon Martin is never going to come back except to haunt him.
I haven't heard anything about Zimmerman's mental health. With no charges pending, I doubt it's been discussed. Besides, we saw it didn't work in Casey's case. It won't work in his. I'm sure that no matter what shows up in the investigation, he's going to stand by his original story.
Great post, Dave; and thank you for writing it!
From listening to the recording of that kid screaming for his life--no, he did not come ready for a kill.
Imhoo, he went to buy Arizona iced tea and Skittles, and to talk to his girl as he walked back to his father's in the rain.
Whether this was racially motivated or not, (my instincts tell me it was)--Trayvon deserves justice.
Yes indeed, nan11, Trayvon definitely deserves justice. And if the outcome is decided against his favor, then at least it was done. Leaving it the way Sanford did was an atrocity. The young man is of much more value than merely a sweep under the rug. Thanks!
Dave~~sometimes I just like to ramble on....please bear with me while I do so...
The best journalist/investigative/reporter is one who can be impartial and unbiased. Given those two assets, we get the whole picture, uncut, uncensored minus the slants. The old saying is, "you can attract more with honey than with vinegar." So when a reporter is doing an interview, what is wrong with them taking a passive approach with their questions? In this way, the interviewee will be relaxed and put out more information than they would if being interrogated, a mild form of badgering.
Nancy Grace is a good example; she uses her program as a mini court room where she gets to do the cross examining in the role of a prosecutor. She doesn't even let up with the crosses when she asks questions of her guest panelists. This has turned a lot of people away from watching her program, me included. I have to give Nancy some credit for taking a stance for the victim but I wish she would be less of a bully.
Sometimes it may look like a reporter is opinionated but when he/she states facts it is not opinion. Facts speak for themselves as in the case of Zimmerman and the police video and 911 calls. Of course, the voice enhancement on one particular 911 and the screams of the male on another can be interpreted differently. It all depends on who is doing the listening and have they already formed an opinion beforehand. A figment of our imagination can really play tricks on us at times but who of us are about to readily admit that?
Trayon's mother hears her son screaming for help on the 911 tape. Zimmerman's father hears his son. I hear a young voice and lean towards the mother. I am being impartial. Some have heard F**** Coon. I heard a**hole. I am still being impartial. I can be impartial because I have no axe to grind in this case other than wanting to see justice take place and the truth prevail. Can that be possible? Not one hundred percent but hopefully it will come close.
There actually will be no winners in this case regardless of what takes place in the future. If Zimmerman is charged and found guilty, who will have won? Trayon's parents have already lost a son but they may have a little consolation. If Zimmerman does not get charged his life is ruined so he loses either way. There will be no great victory because racism is present now, then and will be in the future. It is in the US, Canada and other world countries. It is just a matter of when and where racism will rear its ugly head again.
I know you didn't write this to reflect on my own bias. I admit I am, but mine is based on the fact that a 28-year-old man with a gun chased after a 17-year-old boy with no weapon, and now he's dead. Plain and simple, and I don't think it's fair to take the man's word for it. I firmly believe the police department and state attorney could have done more thorough jobs. I would imagine if Zimmerman is arrested and charged with murder or manslaughter, I will try to be neutral, but right now, I want the truth, and I don't think we've been getting it. Trayvon Martin did not go out looking for a fight that day. The fight came to him.
Thanks Dave -
We've posted this on DailyKos and linked / quoted you in the Diary.
Keep up the great work.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/01/1079754/-Taking-Umbrage-On-Cautions-About-Rushing-To-Judgment-on-Zimmerman
Thank you, Laser. I need to go to a sleep study now, so I may be offline until tomorrow morning. I'm taking my iPad, but I'm going to be wired up. Not a fun night.
Hi Snoopy
I could not agree with you more on everything you said on your last post, especially what you said about Nancy Grace. I liked listening to her show for a while way back when, but I got to the point at which I could not stand watching her bully those who did not agree with her.
I wish that more reporters would take a passive unbiased approach with questioning the various witnesses and participants in these cases. You do catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I think that is why the torturing that we did in Abu Garhab was so terrible. It was not effective in getting us information and it lowered us to a bad level. I like a world better when everyone treats everyone else with respect. Unfortunately, every one treating everyone else with respect is probably never to be in our world.
I do agree with you that Trayvon's mother could recognize her child's screams and differentiate them from other people's screams. Listening to those screams on tape must have been pure hell for her.
Yes, Dave I agree with everything you wrote. There is more than enough cause for arrest and charges to be filed. G-man was definately on the hunt and had cornered his prey. He was determined not to let this one get away.
Do you have any insight on State Attorney Norman Wolfinger? The Sanford Police Dept. had prepared an affidavit for manslaughter, and Wolfinger is the authority who ultimately cut G-man loose.
Still many, many facts to uncover. We're going to need a bigger boat.
Thanks, InTheGarden. It would seem there's enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, but it could be weak and the state won't want to lose based on not enough to convince a jury.
I don't know much about Wolfinger, but I will say I've never heard anything bad about him. I know that the stand your ground law does put a real snag in some prosecutions. I don't think skin color had anything to do with the decision to not arrest the guy, but I do feel that there were some pretty lazy people and they dropped the ball.
The main thing is, undoubtedly the FBI will be recognizing the screaming voice as Trayvon's, too. And have any of us heard a more God-awful sound than that "HELP!" on an audio recording, not in an actual war zone situation? That is pure terror and desperation.
If those screams came from Trayvon, which I think they did, Zimmerman had better prep himself for trial. That info would blow his excuse right out of the water.
Had Trayvon been White/Latino and Zimmerman been Black, do you think for one moment that the Sanford PD would have released Zimmerman that night!! Never. He would still be sitting in jail and more than likely charged with murder or manslaughter.
How Zimmerman could claim self defense is beyond reason. He was the one with the deadly weapon, not Trayvon. A fist doesn't hold much power against a gun, and Zimmerman could have just as easily shot Trayvon in the leg or arm and stopped him, if he thougt the teen was treatening. At the very least, it would have given Zimmerman time to run away. His actions were intended to kill that young man, period.
Thoroughly enjoyed the update, Dave, and you made many good points. This is just another frustrating case, and we're seeing far too many of them. It helps a little, however, to have a place to vent our frustrations. Keep up the good posts!
I agree wholeheartedly, K in AZ. Reverse the roles and we'd have a completely different painting. I want nothing but the truth, and Zimmerman's account of events smelled the minute he gave the police his version.
Thanks for enjoying the update. I hope to provide as many details as possible throughout this ordeal. This is one story I will not give up on until the end, just like the way I did it with Casey Anthony.
This comment has me confused,
" I understand that the evidence was being collected by the prosecutor and was on its way to the grand jury when the race baiters showed up. Shame on the Sanford police for dropping the ball on this one.".
From all sources that I've read from, it was the prosecutor who drove to the police station that night and told LE to drop charges and release him against the lead detective's decision to press charges. Could you provide links that substantiate your comment please? I'd really apreciate it as I wade through all of the details.
And Dave, you and I think so much alike. I agree wholeheartedly. Trayvon was targeted as an easy mark because he was black, but he was murdered because Zimmerman, the wanna be cop and self appointed Captian of the Neighorhood Watch, commando, legend in his own mind, whatever, was on a mission and he was going to take him down.
I firmly believe that Zimmerman was a walking time bomb and Trayvon was a victim who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You know, Terrytsk, one thing that bothers me is the fact that Zimmerman brought this upon himself because he was the one who brought the gun, which was not necessary at all. Had he any smarts, he would have just called 911 and left it in the hands of police. Instead, he had to become some sort of hero. Well, it backfired and now someone is dead. I base my opinion on that. Man-gun, boy-dead. Boom! It can't get any simpler than that.
Dave, for some reason which is probably from my end, when I click on the above CLICK HERE re:
the story of a sister it takes me to an error. Once earlier it was ok but after that one time, nothing.
Didn't know if you knew.
I've tried it a number of times in a row, New Puppy, and it's worked each time. However, I have had the same problem elsewhere on this blog, so I am aware of it. I just don't know what to do about it. Sorry.
Here's my take. But first I want to tell you how this story caught my attention. I heard about it - vaguely in the news. I passed over the names thinking it was two black men for some reason. Probably because most of the time I'm listening to news on tv I'm usually on my computer and I rarely look up....
then I heard some of the conservative pundits getting really opinionated about it and pretty much were blowing up Trayvon as some bad-ass teen who was constantly in trouble. They insinuated he had attitude problems with authority figures. Then I started paying attention to the details.
Dave you hit the nail on the head. This guy Zimmerman was on the prowl to make a name for himself. He simply had to find a criminal to shoot down that night, after his words "these assholes always get away" But not that night - he was hell-bent on not letting at least one of "them" not get away that night. I don't have any proof that he wanted to kill for sure but I kind of think he did. He definitely intended harm to someone that night so this says it was premeditated. I think Z is one of those wannabe but can't be cops too. And given everything else in his actions and attitude that night I think he is sick. Everything he did and said afterward tells me he's got a serious mental health condition which involves dellusions.
Facts are facts and the facts are: he broke every rule in the manual that night. He was carrying not only a loaded gun but the safety was off and it was cocked. This clearly says he was ready to make his move on the first moving target so to speak.....He was told to back off by dispatch and yet continued on knowing that what he was doing was not right. He couldn't stop himself. He clearly profiled Trayvon and this clearly was race related. He went to that neighborhood on his own. He had no business even looking for bad guys "on the prowl" anyway because he was carrying a gun. I just can't believe he hasn't been arrested especially since it was obvious he lied and he wasn't injured like he claimed. With a broken nose there should be lots of blood on his shirt. There was none.
Bottom line is if the the scenario was completely the same but the roles were reveresed - meaning if Z was black and Trayvon was white. Z would have never walked out of the police station that night he would be in jail awaiting trial.
For some strange reason, I can't or won't politicize this tragedy. In my opinion, what Trayvon Martin had done in the past had nothing to do with his shooting death. George Zimmerman walked in with a gun and walked out leaving a dead person in his wake. What many people fail to realize (or remember) is that they were 17 once and trouble was a middle name during that period in life. So what he had pot reidue in a baggy. Since when has anyone gotten violent while high on pot? Besides, he had nothing illegal on or in his dead body.
What I definitely feel is that once Sharpton and Jackson got involved, it became political, but it still had nothing to do with Trayvon's background. In other words, let the politicians argue among themselves; liberals, conservatives and church leaders, but leave out information that's meaningless. Trayvon had every right to defend himself, but in the end, the man who brought the gun left with the gun, sans one bullet.
I am trying to base my reporting on facts, but this one has riled me, especially after hearing Zimmerman's reasons for the killing. I just don't believe him.
Hey Dave, I just put up (on DK) a Diary blog asking some questions that have been missed.
Did Zimmerman Identify Himself as an Officer
Was the gun's saftey On and did the police taken the gun in
Where's the Bruises and Blood.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/02/1079894/-George-Zimmerman-Unidentified-Officer-With-the-Saftey-Off
WHAT many of us would like to see and would get large press review - is a RE Enactment
If you could do both photo's and video of the scene
even of the night with Yellow tape
and the witnesses
(and show how the cops dismissed those that did not support Zim's BS)
and
Then, to be fair, show one's of Cops dismissng the witnesses
where the Cops are acting as if the people are full of bs
I know I would even pay to watch
Sure you can get volunteers
Then Ask all these questions that are being unanswered.
Let me answer what I can, Laser, and the rest I'll work on.
On his 911 tape, Zimmerman did not identify himself as part of Neighborhood Watch that night, nor did he say anything about being an officer of some kind that I am aware of. How or if he identified himself to Trayvon is unknown, other than what Zimmerman says he said, which has not been disclosed. In my opinion, the short exchange overheard by Trayvon's girlfriend was all that was said before the altercation ensued.
“Why are you following me?”
“What are you doing around here?”
The police did confiscate Zimmerman's gun, but whether the safety was on or off at the time isn't relevant. The bottom line was whether it was on or off at the moment of the shooting. Certainly, he had no time to load the first round into the chamber by pulling back and releasing the slide mechanism. Therefore, the chamber had to have been primed and loaded.
This particular gun has an automatic hammer block safety. It's positioned in a manner that prevents the hammer from contacting the firing pin. While the safety is on, the hammer's travel is removed when the trigger is pulled. If you click on the picture of the gun at the bottom of the article, it will take you to the manufacturer's page and, specifically, that gun. You can clearly see the safety button on that page.
ABC News reported that they had the video of Zimmerman at the police station enhanced and it shows what looks like gashes or welts on his head. I saw it, and it does look that way. Here's the link:
ENHANCED VIDEO OF ZIMMERMAN AT POLICE STATION
As for getting back into the gated community to shoot a video, I took my chances the first time and got away with it. What I do understand now is that security has been beefed up since the incident, and it's more of a compound than anything else. No media is getting inside from what my sources tell me. I will continue to dig for more, but I seriously doubt I'll get back to the scene any time soon.
Dave~~you do not have a biased bone in your body and are as fair as they come. Why do you think I hang out here?
I did stress that facts speak for themselves. Facts are not opinions and when you base opinions on facts that is not being biased. Maybe I did not explain things that well.
You will notice that I have voiced opinions on facts and I do not consider myself to be biased. Sorry if there was any misunderstanding. There is evidence in this case that is considered cut and dry, black and white (no pun intended) and therefore, I consider them facts. For example, a young man was shot. A Neighborhood Watch individual broke the rules. We have the 911 calls and the police video. We have a police department who did not follow through and treat this case as a homicide in the beginning... all facts.
When it comes to the media, from past experience, I have learned to be very skeptical in what I read and see.
I will do my best to word my comments, in the future, so they reflect what is actually their intent.
No, Snoopy, there was no misunderstanding. I wasn't singling out your comment as anything pertaining to me, I was merely acknowledging that I'm a little more biased than I was during the Anthony affair. I'm not a gun person and what Zimmerman did was atrocious. Even the NRA has said he was wrong in engaging like he did. In my opinion, it was worse than that. He showed no regard for a person's privacy.
Thanks for providing the link to the enhancement, Dave. In the un-enhanced tape, I had thought I had seen 3 slightly more shadowed areas on his skull, but that I kinda chalked up to uneven hair length from his buzz cut or some interesting permutation(s) of his skull. In the enhanced, you can see some gash or laceration pretty clearly, more on the top of his head rather than from behind, as one might expect. The one cop clearly gives it a quick look-see, doesn't seem terribly impressed. It might help the Defense towards a lesser charge, but of course we do need an arrest first....
Any information I can find, outside of my own work, I am going to provide it, Karen. The video seems to show injuries, but the problem with me remains. If Zimmerman pulled out his gun to defend himself, he was the one who put himself into that situation to begin with. Therefore, he is to blame for Martin's death. He never should have approached anyone. That was not his job, and since he made it his business, he is responsible for the outcome.
I just viewed the enhanced video and the injury to me appears more at the top of his head rather than at the back of the head. I'm no expert in this area, but one would think that having your head slammed into concrete would show a wound on the back of the head.
I'm not meaning to add to the intense speculation, but for all we know Zimmerman hit himself on the back of his head with the gun.
SANFORD, Fla. — George Zimmerman will surrender to authorities if he is charged in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, his attorney said on Monday.
“If he’s charged, he will be arrested and he will turn himself in,” attorney Craig Sonner told Reuters in a telephone interview. “However it goes, he’s not hiding from the authorities. If he is asked, he will turn himself in. There’s not going to be a manhunt or anything like that.”
Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, fatally shot Martin on the night of Feb. 26, saying he had acted in self defense. Police released him without charge and said there was no evidence to contradict Zimmerman’s story that he was attacked by Martin, 17.
Read more here at source....
Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman will surrender to authorities if he’s charged: lawyer
Personally, I can't detect anything on this enhanced video except Zimmerman's hair is a little separated, you know, like when we have just gotten up or leaned against something like the back of the seat in the police car. This is not unusual for a male with short hair like his. I'm going to take a strong magnifying glass and see if I see a drop of blood or anything that looks like an abrasion from being slammed against cement, or blood anywhere on back of jacket. I'm also interested in the fact that if a neighborhood watchman, shouldn't there be some way of being identified, like they would have to wear a certain hat, vest color, etc. To walk around with a gun and be dressed like any other seems a little lax in the intent to do good. If Trayvon had recognized anything at all about this man being a watchman, out there protecting people, my guess he would have just stayed still and willing to chat a bit. I bet Trayvon WISHED there had been a Security Guard or a properly identifiable watchman for his use that night. He could have told them this strange man keeps following him.
I did use a magnifying glass and can clearly see what looks like something other than his hair disarranged, It appears more like he has some baldness, or it has been shaved and certainly there are some marks which appear to possibly have dried blood around some lacerations. However, on my suspicious side this has taken so long to surface and a certain TV station is suspected to have doctored the tapes, could this be possible. I wish they wouldn't play games if that is a possibility, it only leads to instill distrust and hatred. For what reason would any TV station doctor anything that has to do with evidence. Don't misunderstand, for in my thoughts I still do not feel Zimmerman was doing anything right which led to the death of Trayvon.
New Puppy~~you would think that if Zimmerman's head was smashed against the sidewalk, the police would have accompanied him to emerg to get checked out. If paramedics went to the crime scene, they would have written up a report that should be in someone's file.
I agree with you one hundred percent that Zimmerman should have had some visible identification on him to show he was a neighborhood watch. The guardian angels wear red outfits and berets.
I cannot see the enhanced video to look for injuries on Z. I get a notice that it cannot be shown in Canada.
Our Prince is out this afternoon with family but should be in here later tonight.
I finally found an enhancement of the video that I could watch. If this isn't doctored, it definitely shows a wound and swelling on the back of Zimmerman's head. I watched it on full screen.
Video and still picture of Z's head
Snoopy, That "wound" is so large, this man should have been hospitalized to be sure he did not have serious inner brain damage :-) Nothing appears to be right about this whole incident, except Trayvon was innocently minding his own business and this guy stalked him right up to the firing of the gun.
New Puppy, by the looks of that gash, he should have gotten stitches or be checked for a concussion. When you have a cut to the scalp it bleeds profusely. He should have blood all down his back and front. I don't know what to believe anymore or pictures that I see. In the video I posted, an ambulance was called to the scene.
Nancy Grace just said that the ambulance was turned away as it was not needed. I understood that a second ambulance was turned away. No wonder my head spins..
Last night I turned on FOXNews and Geraldo had on Trayvon's parents. They also had Geraldo's brother go out to the gated community and he interviewed Brandy, Tracy's (dad) girlfriend who lives there. Some points I thought was rather interesting, although in the scheme of things I don't know that it matters much.
One of the things was that Brandy had never heard that there were any rashes of break-ins in the community. Another thing I noted was that Trayvon was 20 yards (60 ft) from her home when he was murdered. How is it that neither she nor her son heard his screaming for help? Now, I can understand that she and her son would think little of him not coming back, although it was her son (his "brother"- though he's isn't relationally by marriage) that he bought the Skittles for, because he's young and probably quite social. But, for 12 hours and not knowing where he is, it doesn't make sense to not be missing him. On top of that, to not get the news of a murder in the gated community one lives in either by word of mouth or watching/listening/reading the news is even odder. Brandy knew of nothing that went on that night-didn't even hear the gunshot.
I'm not meaning to denigrate Trayvon's parents and his dad's girlfriend but it kinda took me back a bit to hear that Trayvon was so very close to home and no one came to his aid and then to be in a cold morgue for 12 hours as nameless...before his dad had the unenviable task of identifying him...
Here is an interesting article:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/02/zimmerman-family-member-calls-naacp-racists-says-there-will-be-blood-on-your-hands-if-george-is-hurt/
In a letter obtained exclusively by The Daily Caller on Monday, a family member of George Zimmerman ripped Seminole County, Fla. NAACP president Turner Clayton for a rush to judgment in the Trayvon Martin case.
“It’s time for you to end the race issue in this matter and call for cooler heads to prevail,” the letter reads. “If something happens to George as a result of the race furor stirred up by this mischaracterization of George there will be blood on your hands as well as the rest of the racists that have rushed to judgment. You need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly.”
Sherry's Link
Sherry, I am sending you an email with a code to use here to post links.
Thanks, Snoopy!
Here is an article with video of a neighbor who says he saw George all bandaged up and swollen the next day:
Neighbor Comes Forward...
Sherry~~Bravo! * wink *pat on back lol
I just watched that interview. I don't know who to believe any more. I wonder if Zimmerman had anyone take pics of his face the next day....real close ups. A picture is worth a thousand words.
BTW, the first ambulance dispatched to the crime scene was for Trayvon. The second one for Zimmerman was turned away.
Yup, everyone needs to be put under oath, confronted with their previous statements and what-all-else, and threatened with all kinds of time if we can't get whatever the truth is out of them. I'm also mindful of the fact that people have actually gone so far as to shoot and stab themselves to strengthen a case for self-defense. Since Zimmerman had all kinds of time to get creative if he felt he needed to, the cops and the EMTs on scene need to get buttoned down and zipped up. If he was attended to then there should be some sort of record, however scanty, of that near the time.
Karen C~~the paramedics who arrived first tried to revive Trayvon or that is what I heard. Those same paramedics must have been the ones who attended to Zimmerman since the second ambulance was turned away. I would love to hear the call that went in to EMT. Maybe we can learn of Z's condition from that call. Z had to have bled quite a bit and I would like to know who cleaned the blood off of him. I would also like to know whose blood was on Z.
Getting information is like pulling hen's teeth. Believe me, I have heard of several cases where murderers maimed themselves to make it look like a struggle took place or someone broke in and killed the victim and beat the crap out of the real shooter.
psst~~I know of a few people who can lie under oath. I wonder how Cindy is these days.
Dave should be back in the saddle tomorrow all bright eyed and bushy tailed. LOL
Listen closely to the clip of the 911 call which has the sound of the shot fired, You'll hear cries for help 4 seconds and 2 seconds before the shot is fired. There is a full throated 'help' at t minus 4 and another 'help' at t minus 2. If I am Z on the ground with T on top straddling me and pounding my head into the concrete and if I know that I have a gun....I am not screaming for help. I am going to be channeling all my energy into getting to that gun. If the two of them are in a matching struggle, then neither of them should be screaming for help. It is clear from that clip that whoever is crying for help is being dominated for a minimum of 40 seconds. Yet that domination did not result in major physical damages for either party. I am no Carl Jung, but it does not add up for me.
My theory is that Z is on top of T straddling him and brandishing his gun. That is what is prompting the cries for help from T.
When Z stated to the police that he called for help and nobody came......he was referring to his 911 call and not his cries during the fight.
Good points, Skalathil. The Trayvon that emerges from Zimmerman's surrogates is not believable in terms of his actions at all, either. If a guy tells me he is armed with a gun I do not threaten his life with my only weapon being an Arizona ice tea, even if I thought I might actually have a teensy possibility of relieving him of it. So, where were the tea, the Skittles bag and the phone and headset in relation to TM's body?
I was once dragged into some bushes in the dark, still clutching my due-that-day library books, by a would-be rapist. I was screaming at that moment but once he had me on the ground, you're right, my whole focus was on the knife at my neck, keeping my chin down at my chest as best I could, so he couldn't cut me more, and using my arms to wrestle with him and fend him off. I wasn't screaming then, more like animal sounds, and I was able to bite his other hand when he tried to shut me up. My previous screaming did bring help, and after what seemed like forever, he made a grab for my shoulder bag, but then decided to bug out.
They caught him, that's another story, but I always ask myself- what if that knife had been a gun? The whole thing would have been different, from whether or not I screamed, to how hard to fight back or to comply right away with whatever, to trying to push his hand away (a bullet would easily go right through a hand and then into one's neck), to trying to talk or reason with him (like begging for your life).
If you're Zimmerman, do you not have your own gun right out, presented so as to negate all possibility of resistance? Isn't the intimidation the whole point of letting someone know you are carrying? But Zimmerman had this innocently in his waistband? REALLY?
skalathil, good observation! I believe, thus far, Trayvon was tring to get away from Zimmerman and was going backward toward his dad's girlfriend's house facing Zimmerman, the nut with the gun. Like you said, the screams are too clear to have been uttered while in a struggle. I do think there was a struggle before this and that Zimmerman was close enough to Trayvon when shooting him that he fell forward to the ground. No blood on the shirt makes me wonder if it splattered to the inside of Trayvon's hoodie. I wonder what the splatter patterns would be from a gun like that.
Terry Tsk, I heard that statement on Redeye Radio (night forgotten), a damnedable conservative talk show. Knowing that won't be enbough for proof here is the timeline:
Timeline
Notice that the New Black Panthers gets involved on March 10th and the results of the investigation are turned in to the SA on March 13th. On March 14th there is a gathering of civil rights leaders at a local church. Obviously it takes a day or two to coordinate that effort.
March 10
Members of the New Black Panther Party gather outside Sanford police headquarters to increase pressure on authorities. The party's southern regional minister calls the case a "miscarriage of justice."
March 13
Police complete their investigation, turning the case over to the State Attorney's Office for the 18th Circuit. A spokeswoman promises "a through, deliberate and just review."
March 14
Nearly 400 people, including many influential local civil-rights leaders and pastors, pack the Allen Chapel AME Church in Sanford to call for Zimmerman's arrest. Meanwhile, witness Mary Cutcher tells local a television station that police took only a short statement from her after the shooting and had ignored her calls. "I know this was not self-defense," she says.
How can there be a miscarriage of justice if the investigation isn't even complete? Just because there's no arrest on the spot does not mean a miscarriage of justice. To be fair, Sanford police had a black eye on their record because of the beating of the homeless man which Zimmerman fought for his justice.
Letter to the NAACP
I guess we're not talking about the same thing. I've been reading that it was the prosecutor who made a special trip to the police station that night and put the kabash on pressing charges in spite of the polcie officer/detective? who felt charges were warranted.
It's a big hot mess and I don't know where it will lead to. I hope it doesn't turn into a Rodney King type of situation.
Did the media start out to make this case a racial issue?
NBC launches internal investigation into editing of George Zimmerman's 911 call
Martin's Parents Plan To Sue Homeowners Group
TerryTsk, I believe the SA just didn't have enough to go on to hold Zimmerman on that night. Usually a suspect can be held for so long before charges are pressed or not, like in the Casey Anthony case. Her lawyers told the SA to get on with it in charges or else let her go.I can imagine that that case has Florida's SAs a bit more cautious.
I, too, hope this won't be another Rodney King deal.
In an interview with ThinkProgress, Martin family attorney Natalie Jackson raised serious questions about the role of George Zimmerman’s father, Robert Zimmerman, in the case.
Specifically, Jackson pointed to Robert Zimmerman’s presence during police questioning of his son. The New York Times reported the following:
The day after the shooting, George Zimmerman, according to his father, returned with at least three police officers to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, back to that grassy area where plaintive cries for help had gone unanswered. The investigators, accompanied by someone with a video camera, wanted him to re-enact the events of the night when the two strangers had stood their ground.
Mr. Zimmerman’s father watched from nearby.
Jackson noted that Robert Zimmerman was a retired magistrate judge who “issued warrants” and knows “what probable cause needs to be” to justify an arrest. His presence at the questioning, according to Jackson, was unusual and potentially inappropriate because “we don’t know what coaching went on.”
In an interview with Fox 35 Orlando, Robert Zimmerman, speaking of his son’s conduct, said “If a law enforcement officer presented those facts to me and requested a warrant, he would absolutely be denied.” Robert Zimmerman’s unusual role could help explain how George Zimmerman avoided arrest despite the recommendation of the lead homicide investigator that he be charged with manslaughter.
Read more here at source....
EXCLUSIVE: Trayvon Martin Family Attorney Raises Questions About The Role Of George Zimmerman’s Father
I agree that it will have to be the forensic evidence to help solve this case....
Patricia Cornwell on the importance of forensics in the Trayvon Martin case
Someone compiled all the 911 calls made to Sanford PDept the evening of Feb 26th. It is 40 minutes long but well worth a listen. One woman is totally hysterical and the dispatcher is trying to console her. She is elderly and the dispatcher should be commended for his patience. You will pick up bits of info if you listen to all the calls. One caller said that a person in a white t-shirt was on the top of the other person.
Flood of 911 calls
"Trayvon's girlfriend was interviewed by the two district attorneys that Special Prosecutor Angela Corey appointed to the case," a source tells RadarOnline.com. "She was interviewed last week and her mother was present throughout. She was very forthcoming and had pertinent information to the investigation because she was the last person that talked to Trayvon before George Zimmerman shot and killed him. It was extremely emotional for her and her mother wanted to make sure it wasn't too much for her. She would be a very compelling witness for the state of Florida if criminal charges are filed against George Zimmmerman."
Read more here at source....
Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Interviewed By Prosecutors
[I think the girlfriend's testimony will help lay out a timeline from the end of Zimmerman's 9-1-1 call to when the girlfriend's conversation with Martin abruptly ended. It seems to me that an incident took place right after the two exchanged words, and if so, it doesn't sound like Martin chased after Zimmerman.]
Here is a partial police report of what went down the evening of Feb 26th. In the report, Zimmerman said that he cried for someone to help... Sanford Fire Dept administerd first aid to Z in the back of police car...
Partial Police Report in pdf
Dave~~the following sounds logical and coincides with one of the 911 calls. One of the callers said the one on top was wearing a white t-shirt. Light gray can be mistaken for white. My opinion only. I am going to make a prediction as to the outcome of this case. I do not think there will be an indictment. Now I am off to join the Foreign Legion...see ya...
Trayvon Martin case: George Zimmerman's account of what happened
[It is confusing, isn't it?]
Well, wait a sec, I thought Zimmerman said he was on his way to Target- not really a grocery store.
Personally, I've always assumed that Zimmerman's father being a judge was a factor in the arrest not being made. Eye-rolling Gigantic DUH! That's just professional courtesy being extended. I'm amazed anyone could be so naive to not see that as it happens quite routinely. Burns people up when they are exposed to it, and I also assume that's why we have these leaks all over the place, clearly from PO-ed police sources.
[The Target I shop at is a supercenter, so it is both a department store and grocery store. However, whether I'm going to buy a shirt or a box of cereal, I still say I'm going to Target, and that's it.]