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    « George Zimmerman to be charged... | Main | A Loaded Question »
    Friday
    Apr062012

    Slimm v. Zimm

    CAUTION: CONTAINS STRONG LANGUAGE

    It’s a sad state of affairs when an innocent person’s death is ostracized to the point that it creates a huge rift; enormous enough to cut through the very fabric of race, politics and social mores. But it’s precisely what happened in the case of Trayvon Martin, the teenager whose life was cut short by a 9mm bullet fired from George Zimmerman’s gun in Sanford, Florida, a short distance away from where I live. Who was to blame?

    Because of a profound difference between people of various ethnicities, religions and political affiliations, the facts don’t always come out as they should. Initially, I thought the shooting was racially motivated, for instance, but later, I didn’t feel it was any more than just some kind of profiling. That didn’t necessarily mean without due deliberation. In other words, strangers are always up to no good, right? Wrong, but George Zimmerman assumed that Trayvon Martin was as soon as he saw him. From the start of the 9-1-1 call to the Sanford Police Department, Zimmerman made it clear that he was profiling Martin:

    [The bold emphasis in the quotations is mine]

    Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department

    Zimmerman: Hey we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [at] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something.

    If that’s not profiling, I don’t know what is, but do I believe it stooped to the level of racial profiling? At first, I did, but today I don’t. Not really. What threw me off was that the Sanford police were so quick to release Zimmerman after the shooting, under the auspices of the ‘stand your ground’ law in Florida. I have serious doubts, though, about whether Martin would have been able to walk away had the shooting been the other way around. Believe me, I’ve lived around these here parts long enough to remember seeing the remnants of separate water fountains for blacks and trees that were once used for hanging.

    As for Zimmerman’s incessant phone calls to police to report suspicious activity over the course of eight years, he only mentioned the person’s race when prompted. This is from the February 26 call:

    Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

    Zimmerman: He looks black.

    Since August of 2011, he called the police a total of seven times, and again, only mentioned his suspect’s race after being asked. That’s not racism, but you may wonder why I wrote his in italics. It’s because I feel strongly that Zimmerman is a loose screw with very distorted views based on his own innate paranoia — his irrational distrust of others. Does that make him crazy? No, but I would rather a guy like him live far, far away from my neighborhood because he’s the type who would end up doing precisely what he ended up doing.

    Everyone who knows me understands I am not a gun enthusiast. I have never owned any kind of weapon like a gun and I never will. However, I do believe in everyone’s right to bear arms. I just don’t agree that everyone is sane enough to bear one, let alone walk around with it on their person. I do believe that most people with concealed license permits are not of the same mold as Zimmerman, and from what I’ve learned, most are at odds with a vigilante like him. He made roughly 47 phone calls (9-1-1 and non-emergency) to police since August of 2004, and 9 since August of 2011. In order to put this into a proper perspective, think about how many times you’ve called the police in since 2004. How about just since August of last year? Yup, that’s what I thought, so you would agree that it’s an exorbitant number and quite abnormal, given the circumstances of where he lived and traveled throughout his neighborhood. Sure, I’m considering his self-appointed title as captain of the Neighborhood Watch program, but for crying out loud, the guy called police when someone left their garage door open. 

    §

    As for Sanford’s problem today, most of it stems from sweeping the incident under the proverbial rug, and for that, I don’t blame civil rights leaders for lighting the fuse of the firestorm that is now burning. Had I not known any better, I’d probably be thinking the same way a lot of people are looking at this mess:

    Black boy shot dead by white dude. White dude claims self defense. Police look at scene while eating donuts and agree with dude. Case closed. Clean up the mess.

    Certainly, that’s not really the case, but it’s easy to think so since this country, the south in particular, is rich with examples of this kind of thing, where the good ol’ boy system of cronyism is the way local governments have been run for generations. Because of this, I agree that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were right in taking up this cause, although they do have a way of adding fuel to burning embers. But I also know from past experiences that without their help, there’s a very good chance that Trayvon’s story would still be tucked away and forgotten. The bottom line is, and I heard Sharpton say this with my own ears, that all they seek is the truth. Each of us should be asking for that instead of splintering into social, racial and political divides. To seek the truth is what everyone deserves, and that means justice for George Zimmerman, too.

    §

    So far, what do we know that is factual? There’s so much distortion out there and I’ll be the first one to openly admit I was part of it — initially, anyway. Zimmerman’s gun, for example, has no safety and a bullet enters the chamber when the clip is placed inside the grip. I was wrong about that.

    There’s also a real problem over Zimmerman’s ethnicity. Is he white or Hispanic? I will stand by the initial police report. Whether Zimmerman was asked or not is not known, but Zimmerman doesn’t sound Hispanic to me. (For the record, his mother is Peruvian.)

    During the 9-1-1 call on February 26, Zimmerman contradicted himself. He told the dispatcher that Martin was coming toward him and moments later he said the exact opposite. You can listen to his voice and hear the wind to show that he was running after his suspect. Again, I am emphasizing the quotations in bold:

    Zimmerman: Something’s wrong with him. Yup, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.

    Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok

    Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

    Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

    Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away [more profiling?]. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

    Dispatcher: So it’s on the left hand side from the clubhouse?

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running.

    Dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?

    Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

    Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he’s heading towards?

    Zimmerman: The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]

    DispatcherAre you following him?

    ZimmermanYeah.

    Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.

    Zimmerman: Ok

    Let’s try to examine the actual timeline by breaking it down:

    7:04 PM: Trayvon receives phone call from his girlfriend.

    7:08 PM: Trayvon’s phone call with girlfriend ends.

    7:09 PM: Zimmerman spots Trayvon while sitting in his truck and calls non-emergency number. Log records show incoming call received at 7:09:34 PM.

    7:10:35 PM: Zimmerman tells dispatcher Martin is coming toward him.

    7:11:48 PM: Dispatcher asks which way Martin is running.

    7:12 PM: Trayvon’s girlfriend calls back.

    7:13 PM: Zimmerman says his truck is parked at cut-through. 15 seconds later, he loses sight of Trayvon.

    7:13:41 PM: Zimmerman ends call to dispatcher.

    Meanwhile, Trayvon is still on the phone with his girlfriend.

    7:15 - 7:16 PM: Trayvon’s tells girlfriend he thinks he lost the guy. She then hears voices:

    Trayvon: Why are you following me?

    Zimmerman: What are you doing here?”

    Phone cuts out at 7:16 (approximate.) Girlfriend says it sounded like the phone was dropped.

    7:16:11 PM: First of seven 9-1-1 calls comes in. A high-pitched male voice is heard screaming for help.

    7:16:56 PM: GUNSHOT IS HEARD.

    According to the initial police report, officers Ricardo Ayala and Timothy Smith arrive on the scene at 7:17 PM, a mere seconds after the fatal shot.

    There are two flaws in Zimmerman’s story, the way I see things. The timeline doesn’t add up according to his account. If Trayvon is on the phone with his girlfriend and loses the connection at 7:16, with the fatal shot coming approximately one minute later, how could Trayvon have sneaked up behind Zimmerman when the two exchanged those questions overheard on the phone? Follow me on this, please:

    Trayvon: Why are you following me?

    Zimmerman: What are you doing here?

    Phone goes dead

    Pause

    GUNSHOT!

    This all takes place in less than or equal to one minute - hardly enough time for Trayvon to mount a “from behind” sneak attack, as Zimmerman says he was returning to his truck, but there’s more to it than that. 

    The second aspect of Zimmerman’s account of a sneak attack doesn’t make sense to me, either. Study the map:

    The yellow line signifies the path Trayvon took on his way back from 7-Eleven to his father’s fiancée’s house. This was the correct path. Zimmerman’s path is in orange. He could have followed Trayvon or he could have taken the other path and swung around to face him north as Trayvon headed south along the sidewalk. Either way, I don’t see how Trayvon could have caught Zimmerman off guard. This is a major issue as far as I’m concerned, and in my opinion it adds up to an alibi that doesn’t compute.

    Witness points to spot where Trayvon died.

    The bottom line is that I’m more concerned with what really transpired than I am about anything else. Who is black and who is white shouldn’t matter, but it does, and both extremes are expanding the rift. No doubt, it’s a terrible shame when we break down a human life and crumble it like bleu cheese over potholes marked by liberal and conservative values, Republican and Democratic doctrines, and most shocking, what a young man’s life is worth depending on where one sits. This cannot be marred by the loud marches of vengeance seekers. There can be no coerced contrition based on speculation. While we argue over justice, we can’t lose sight of the truth. 

    Trayvon Martin is dead. Had he been left alone that Sunday evening, which he should have been, he would have delivered a bag of Skittles to his soon-to-be step-brother and life would have continued as usual; uninterrupted. Instead, a man with a gun had to stick his nose into something that was police business, and for that reason alone, if nothing more, he should be held accountable. Without that gun, George Zimmerman would have been too afraid to chase after a fluffy little bunny rabbit and Trayvon would be spending Easter with his family. Instead, we’re left with fighting over a word: cooncold, or punk. Sadly, the battle lines are drawn, and it’s Slimm v. Zimm. Which side are you rooting for?

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    Reader Comments (143)

    Great Dave, thank you for this analysis. "He's running, he's coming toward me, he's running" seems Zimmerman got pretty confused in that period of time. I just wanted to say the comment Zimmerman was supposed to have made, termed racial, it certainly does not have a "P" sound as they indicate for sure he said punk, It DOES have a "C" sound or "K" sound. I don't think Zimmerman started prowl that evening looking for "black" but can easily believe that he has been on the "prowl" for a long time to act out his belief that he was doing a very special job and the "hero" aspect played a big roll in his need to be recognized. His actions did indeed incorporate Trayvon's being black into Zimmerman's idea of catching a "bad guy" and I sincerely believe had Trayvon been white he would not have raised the hair on the back of Zimmerman's neck as did Trayvon being black.

    I have missed you!!

    [You missed me, New Puppy?! Ive been here, but resting under one of those trees in the banner. In the shade, of course. Maybe that's why you didn't notice me.

    Zimmerman definitely seemed confused, alright, and I could tell from his voice that he was desperately trying to find fault with Martin's being inside his compound. As for the “word” he said, a lot hinges on the official interpretation of it. If none can be made, he can't be charged with any kind of hate crime, and that would be a huge relief to him.

    There are intangibles involved in this sort of thing. Let's say you ran into a redneck. OK, no problem, but you might assume he's a racist, bigot, stupid, small-brained and filled with hatred for blacks and Yankees. Suppose he brings out his pitbull. Whoa! Immediately, you are caught off guard and overcome with fear. That's because of our stereotypes of rednecks and pitbulls, yet most are harmless. Some dogs are trained to fight and the fight is bred into generations of those types of dogs, but most pitbulls are wonderful pets and most rednecks don't fit the stereotype.

    During WWII, Japanese-Americans were placed in internment camps, yet most were law-abiding patriots. At the time, many people, black and white, refused to trust anyone with slanted eyes. Today, it would be racial profiling, and rightfully so. But think about it. I wonder how many oldtimers still feel that way, yet they would never blurt out that they can't trust any of those “slanty-eyed chinks.”

    Clearly, that's racial profiling and we are all guilty of it to a certain extent. Today, we can hardly trust anyone – blacks, whites, and, God forbid, priests! One of the first things to come to mind is pedaphile when we see a man of the cloth, but it's unfair.

    The same thing rings true with blacks. Not always, mind you, but if there were no inherent fear, black parents would never have to give their sons “The Talk.” Is it all based on prejudice? I don't think so, but one thing is certain. If it's determined that Zimmerman did not utter a racial epithet, there is no way to prove his reaction to Martin was a hate crime or racial profiling in the most blatant sense. The law cannot interpret what goes through a person's mind. If Zimmerman says it had nothing to do with race, there's no way to prove otherwise and that should end the battle over what his intentions were when he approached Martin. To me, no matter what, he was wrong, wrong, wrong, for getting out of his truck to follow the teen. Even prior to the physical engagement, he acknowledged that words were exchanged. This put him squarely in the face od Martin and that WAS NOT his job. His Neighborhood Watch manual said so and so did the dispatcher. He ignored both.

    Thanks, New Puppy. It is much more my pleasure seeing you than the other way around.]

    April 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterNew Puppy

    A few comments:

    If Zimmerman were racist I think he would have said that the suspicious guy was black before being asked.

    That Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton wants the truth is extremely hard for me to believe. Jesse "Hymie Town" Jackson doesn't care for the truth because he wouldn't except the final findings in the Mark Barmore case. These are two bigots that even the conservative blacks say is irrelevent in this day and age. Wounds need to heal and they like to pick at the scabs.

    Sanford has a scab, too. There have been racial tensions in the past. I hope you could find that info out-and make mention of it-not to open up the sore but for the sake of giving your readers a better idea of what blacks have endured from there. Also, I found out that there is a Black Male Code. If Trayvon did attack George I believe he did so out of anger at having to live by this Code. I don't think I'll live to see the day that this code won't be passed on from son to son... BTW, I saw a video the other day by a black preacher who has the Harlem PD lecture his church's kids about respecting the law. And about wearing hoodies. Date of the video: 2010.

    Zimmerman parked his truck and Trayvon was behind him by the clubhouse. Ofcourse, Trayvon would be heading towards Zimmerman in his truck if he was trying to head to his father's girlfriend's home. Once past the truck then Trayvon ran and Zimmerman got out of the truck to watch where he was going. The dispatcher did ask Zimmerman to let him know if Trayvon does anything. Once the dispatcher told him not to follow Trayvon I believe he went back to his truck. He met up with Trayvon and the verbal exchange happened. After that, its a "perhaps this happened or that happened" scenario.

    IMO, Zimmerman had an itchy trigger finger even if Trayvon attacked. It only takes seconds to throw punches. One should punch hard in the air and see how many punches can be pulled in 30 seconds. Size doesn't matter as much as the physical shape one is in. If they were duking it out, the sad reality is the fight turned deadly by the firing of the gun.

    The side I am rooting for is the truth. But, even if it is found to be true that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, it doesn't lessen the tragedy of his lost, young life. A tragedy that could have been avoided if Zimmerman hadn't wanted to play "Cops and Robbers." As Trayvon passed his truck, he could have asked the young man if he lived in the complex and explained to him who he was and why he was asking.

    [I will admit I have problems with Sharpton and Jackson, and I base it on past behaviors, but I can say that, from attending the Sanford rally, Sharpton wants the truth and he wants peaceful demonstrations. At an Eatonville church the following Sunday, Jackson said this is a war. That can be interpreted in more than one way. A war is an armed conflict. That's one. There is a war of words going on here. That's another.

    There is a very funny black comedian by the name of George Wallace. Years ago, I watched one of his routines. In it, he wanted to answer the age old question: Do black people all know each other? HUH? Yeah, why do black people always call each other Bro? Like, wazzup, Bro? Slap me five!

    He said, no, we don't all know each other, but what is it with all you white people? Every weekend, you have yard sales, garage sales, and all kinds of sales to sell your old junk. So you do that and all these other white people drop by and buy your old junk. What is it about white people and their junk?

    You see, he was making fun of misconceptions about races. Of course, all black people don't know each other and I've never had a yard sale. If you've ever watched COPS, you'll know about black officers telling their “Bros” that they aren't brothers, so don't call them that.

    I, personally, do not know of any black code. However, there is “The Talk” that is given to young black males that warns them how to act when confronted by law enforcement and others in authority, like keeping your hands on the steering wheel or out the window when pulled over.

    As for Sanford's past, I knew about it years ago, but I can't name an old gas station with separate bathrooms or anything like that, but I did find this site with 5 examples:

    Five Things You Didn’t Know About Sanford’s Racist Past

    Yes, we all want the truth, but there are different ways to approach it just like there are two different ways to explain a 12 ounce glass with 6 ounces of water. The glass is either half full or half empty.

    Had Zimmerman been smart and allowed Martin his space, he would have rolled down his window and asked. That would have been the polite and proper way of doing it.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    Dave~~you sure do a great job in explaining the timeline and putting facts forward to make things a little clearer. None of us know if Zimmerman was brandishing that semi when he was in pursuit of Trayvon. We do know the bullet went into the chest from the front or at an angle from either side of the front. Evidence from some of the eye witnesses say that there was a struggle. Is there a possibility that a gun was aimed at Trayvon and in an attempt to save his own life, he tried to disarm Zimmerman? I am in hopes that Sanford PD gathered enough evidence to help prove this case via ballistics, gun powder residue etc. The distance from the entry wound to how far away the gun was is crucial. We don't even know if tests have been done for these things.

    I do not believe that this can be classed as racial before that gun was fired but it certainly has become racial now. I blame that on some media outlets. NBC has since apologized for the edit made on the 911 audio and the person who made that edit has been fired. I also put the onus on the Sanford Police Dept for stirring up the racial divide by not treating this as a homicide and following the proper protocol on the evening of Feb 26th.

    Anyone who thinks that racism does not exist ,in many countries, yours and mine and elsewhere, need to take off their rose colored glasses.

    It is plain to see that those who are sticking up for either Trayvon or Zimmerman, not everyone, but many have their own agenda for doing so and the truth of what really happened is inconsequential.

    If things go on schedule the grand jury will convene on April 10th. The appointed special prosecutor may make her decision before then but I cannot see that happening. I only hope that the public and all concerned will accept the decision of the grand jury or prosecutor and get on with their lives. I think I am asking for a miracle on that one.

    Thanks, Dave for all your work in making a great post!!

    [This one took some time to put together, Snoopy, so it's nice to know you can tell. It does seem that there was a struggle, but witnesses differ in their accounts, and voice experts hired by outsiders have confirmed that the screams are not coming from Zimmerman. I won't set that in stone because none of it would hold weight in a courtroom. I'm sure the defense and prosecution. If it comes to that, will have their own experts butting heads.

    NBC was totally at fault for spreading false information. Welcome to an election year, when slants abound from all directions, including something like this that shouldn't have been politicized in the first place.

    My hope in writing this post is to keep everything peaceful. That means I would expect all comments to be respectful to me and every person who comments. Yes, racism does exist, and unfortunately, it works both ways. That's one of the reasons why I wrote this post. Yes, white folks can say that what they did to blacks was awful, but that was many years ago, so get over it. At the same time, they can complain about what black leaders once said or did, can't the blacks counter with the same logic? That was so many years ago, you need to get over it.

    I was hoping that we ALL could move on. I made it clear that, had black leaders not stepped in, there's a good chance that we this death would still be swept under the carpet. Yes, it's a two-way street, but how often do we not hear about a white boy being shot by a black man? The number is still disproportionate. If we are equals, then we must act like it. All of us.

    Thank you!]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Well written and thought-out post. Fair, too. Snoopy, I quite agree, so we'll have to wait for the autopsy report to get leaked. Also, did LE even take pictures- other than one of Zimmerman's head on a cell phone we hear- to show us the relationship of Trayvon's body to the sidewalk, to what was in his hands, and so on.

    [Thank you, Karen. I definitely tried to be fair.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterKaren C.

    Whether Zimmermn specifically said anything racial that night is moot. The point is what were the conversations that he had with his neighbors about possible young black men burglarizing the neighborhood? It really does sound to me that the only reason that Travon drew Zimmermans attention was the fact that he was black. We are playing semantics I think when we say that this did not have a racial element. I have another problem in the mere suspicion of the black home break in suspects. It would appear that no one had ever caught these supposed black thieves, instead these are rumors that have been passed around the community. I found it strange because here in central Florida with such high unemployment and a relatively uneducated population, I would expect thieves to be of all races.

    Terry, I find it illuminating when you state that you are seeking the truth but in the very same post make the assertion that Reverend Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are racists. Have you specifically heard either of them speak or read any of their writings? Also for your information the putative "code" is more of a gang activity and surely you understand that the -vast- majority of us do not belong to a gang and know little to nothing about them. To generalize that most of our young men are bound to this "code" is beyond me.

    I too hope that we can arrive at the truth. The problem of course as Dave as alluded is without the protests and the attendant activism, the likelihood of having a chance to know the truth was close to nil.

    Hi, Porky3100 – I don't know for sure that Zimmerman followed Trayvon simply because he was black. He may have followed a white teen the same way. However, had it been me walking along, he would have left me alone or, marginally, called to me to ask about my presence in the community. There's a far cry between Trayvon's age and mine, though, so what would he have done if it were a black man, my age, instead? Those are questions that cannot be answered because we cannot delve deeply into the mind of George Zimmerman. We can only assume. As for whether a racial slur was made, that wouldn't be a moot point if it's found out he did. That changes the weight of a lot of things, and the scale would then tip in Trayvon's favor.

    One thing I never gave thought to was whether Zimmerman liked to hear his own voice calling the Sanford police. Were there real suspects or were they figments of his imagination? My guess would be that they were real... BUT! You make a good point. Did he only call the police when he spotted blacks in his neighborhood, yet never mention the race until prompted? That's interesting. I know I read somewhere (but where?) that there was a breakdown between races in his 9-1-1 calls. Most were minority suspects, but not all. If he profiled, he was careful to not mention a race until he was asked to provide it, in most cases. All of this info would make it difficult to prove bias in court unless he uttered the slur.

    I think it's important that you speak here and let your thoughts be known. There are plenty of misconceptions about black people; more so than any black person would have about white people. My real feelings about this and my blog is that it open a huge door to continue a dialog between and with everyone. We are all equals and there are plenty of misconceptions going around to last a lifetime, but an open dialog is the best thing we can do as a step in the right direction. I, for one, had never heard of “The Talk” until this situation came along.. To be honest, I had never heard of the “Black Male Code” until today. Which one is true is precisely my point – We learn something new every day!

    Thanks, Porky3100. If there were ever a preacher inside me, it would be now. There's never a better time to break bread among us than now.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    I am, and have always tried to be, on the Side of Truth... this stank to me when I first heard about it and the smell doesn't improve with age. Your words on this matter are well-chosen and I hope will have the desired effect of causing people to look at how choosing sides can affect things.

    [Thank you, Sandy. I had no idea this post would open old wounds. Perhaps it's good, but ONLY if it manages to create a dialog instead of a deeper and wider chasm. That is, after all, what I wrote about.]

    April 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterSandy Banks

    Dave I Know what Im saying could be construed as racist if so feel free to remove my post.I used to date an live with a Black Girl her Family was originaly from Ghana.She was beutifull an a former buisness partner of Richard Branson.They ran a clothes shop in London called Virgin Rags.Anyway she travelled alll over the world.An she told me that South America central Ameria Mexico an Brazil in particular were the most raceist countrys she had ever encountered..An I beleive this Zimmerman guy is South American .Maybe he is just realy stupid an beleived that tv add where a person holding skittles could turn anything he touched into skittles.Ive listened to the ladys makeing the 911 call where you here the gunshot.An the person screaming for help has a high pitched teenage type voice..It was not Zimmerman calling for help off that Im sure..iF he does get charged I wonder if Baez will insert himself into the case.I see he is DEFENDING the girl involved in that young mans death..An he does love a high profilecase.Happy Easter eveybody .My fridge freezer blew up last night. What away to start the holidays.Its beyond reserection that much I know.

    [Zimmerman's mother is Peruvian. I do know they can be prejudiced. We all can be. I know Cubans who can't stand Puerto Ricans and vice versa. I also know there's a Korean slang word or phrase for white people. I don't remember what it is, but it translates into “pink like a pig.” Am I offended?

    Hardly.

    I don't think Zimmerman is interested in Jose Baez. I think he's smart enough to understand that he is controversial enough without Jose's help. That would turn a lot more people against him than help. I do wonder, though, how he could define himself. Is he white? Is he Hispanic? Does it really matter at all?

    Happy Easter to you, ecossie! Thank you!]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered Commenterecossie possie

    Reverend Sharpton and Jesse Jackson never come to the forefront concerning "WHITES" Seems only white on black or Hispanic on blacks. They never come to the rescue on blacks on blacks like in the last few months the killings in Chicago.

    "It goes something like this: Why are Jackson and Sharpton (and by extension, the black community) so worked up over the death of one black kid? Why aren't they barnstorming Chicago, which endured a spasm of violence last month, including a deadly six-hour stretch in which 13 men were shot, and two died?

    Critics loved the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. Where is the outrage over blacks killing one another?"

    I too believe they are racist. It's for the "SPOTLIGHT" only.

    Hi, shyloh – I think one of the things we don't think about – or we forget – is that Sharpton and Jackson don't just show up out of nowhere when a white kills a black. These are people that tend to the sick and afflicted regardless of race, but let's just stick with that for now. Yes, they do seem to come out of the woodwork, but in actuality, they stand up for many causes, including black on black killings. The main thing is something we don't think of, either. It's called “what sells” and it's something the media rely on to make money.

    I mean, come on, you've got to admit an oddball mall cop wannabe with a gun killing a teenager with a bag of Skittles is prime time news. I think if both were white or both were black, it still would have made headlines because o the nature of the incident, but would it have attracted the two preachers? Not if it didn't have a racist slant to it, which is the case here, or maybe it isn't. I think what we're forgeting is what drew the two here in the first place. It wasn't so much about white on black as it was about Sanford. Sanford has been on the radar for a long time, as have many southern towns. We shouldn't forget that. Instead, we must incorporate it into the whole equation. The whole equation also includes the good old media. While some may look at media as too liberal, or in the case of FOX, too conservative, the bottom line is the almighty dollar and if that's a colored thing, too, then it's the color of money.

    It only takes a white on white case to prove the critics wrong on this one. Casey and Caylee. The biggest one of them all. No racism, but still, a huge cash cow for three years. How long will this one be milked?]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered Commentershyloh

    Good article Dave. The case is interesting, many have different opinions of what happened. None of us know all the facts yet. It was wrong for some of these interest groups and media for giving facts that were not true or twisted to fit their stories, imo.

    Could Trayvon have taken off running and then went back around building to encounter Zimmerman ? Then a fight occurred ? Trayvon should of went straight back to his building, instead of confronting George, imo.

    If you had a gun and some one was on top of you pounding your head, would you freak out and shoot him in self defense? Most would !

    Tragedy no matter what happened, no winners in this case. Could both these young adults be at fault for this mess?

    [Well, hello there, Micki! GREAT to see you. I hope all is well.

    We don't really know exactly what transpired that fateful evening, but we do know that words were exchanged between the two about a minute before the shot went off. We know that from what Trayvon's girlfriend said and the from the time the call abruptly ended. From that we could surmise that when the phone died, there was some sort of altercation between George and Trayvon. Who threw the first punch? I don't know, but depending on which witness we want to believe, one of them had the upper hand until the gun ended it. The testimony of these witnesses is going to be very crucial to this case and whether George will be charged with a crime.

    There are two determinations to make. One is whether he used a racial epithet and the other is whether he used the gun in self defense. These are very serious issues, and if George really belives he did nothing wrong, he may come out of this a winner, but will he ever really win? He never should have broken the neighborhood watch rules and he should have heeded the dispatcher's advice. That proved to be a fatal error because we do know that the two of them did exchange words. That doesn't sound like a sneak attack to me, but time will tell.

    Do I think both could be at fault? Sure. Trayvon may have snapped, but he wouldn't have done that had George listened and followed the rules. Also, Trayvon was a 17-year-old. Not someone I would ever look at as the bastion of maturity.

    Thanks, I'm glad you like the article and decided to drop by and say a few words. Your opinion is always welcome here.]

    April 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMicki Owens

    Porky3100, do your own homework. I'm surprised you do not know this about them. You must be young. Did you not hear of these things? Do you think I just got those ideas off the top of my head? Huh???

    BTW, I'm quite familiar with the Mark Barmore case-it was NOT a racial incident but Jackson made sure it was.

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    Another thing, Porky, I was NOT denigrating the Black Male Code. I take it you are a black male? Why don't you look it up. Its a father/mother to son talk to keep their child safe and alive in a society that automatically thinks that black kids are touble. Its a talk to help them to understand that they may very well be singled out by the police more than others would just for being black (and now for wearing hoodies).

    At first, before Zimmerman even knew what the color of his skin was, he was leery of this "up to no good" kid.

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    You know, if we care to look dispassionately at it (hard to do), we are seeing a wonderful example of Newton's Third Law of Motion- "For every action there is a separate and equal reaction".

    Also, there are a number of agendas at work here, vying for attention (camera time), and not all have to do with any racial divide real or perceived, historical or current. There's a Gun Lobby agenda here too, ramping this mess up bigtime, hauling in donations for Zimmerman's "defense". So, if he isn't charged what's the likelihood they'll be returning those donations?

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterKaren C.

    Where is the outrage over white on white killing? White people kill each other every single day in this country, but no one gets up in arms about that, but all of a sudden we blacks have to get on black-on-black killing and eliminate that first before we have any standing to talk about one of our own being killed unnecessarily by a self-appointed vigilante?? Smacks of a double standard.

    [Hi J.D. - There is outrage over white on white killings just as much as there is black on black, but it's called being selective. Blacks acknowledge the black on black and don't see the white on white, and whites see white on white and don't see the black on black. In many cases, the murders overwhelm us because they occur by the hundreds each and every day. Some, like Caylee Anthony and Trayvon Martin touch our hearts.

    I'll bet if you take the ratio of whites and blacks that responded to the Caylee death, you'd find that the percentages are similar to the blacks and whites that responded to Trayvon.

    You must admit that, living in a minority, there are plenty more whites murdered each year than blacks and other minorities. That may have something to do with the discrepancies in reporting deaths and why it may seem like one gets top billing over the other. Believe me, no one wants to report such things, but we can't avoid it. Look at Dr. William Petit, sole survivor of a Connecticut home invasion that left his wife and two girls slaughtered in their burrning home. The perps were white and that made national news. Should we really play games when it comes to the boo hoo of who and what gets more TV coverage, black or white murders? Hell, this isn't a ratings war and it should never be considered a war between the races.]

    April 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJ.D. Walker

    Im not faniliar with guns or the extent of powers neighbourhood watchers have in America...If Zimmerman felt the need to be armed to do his voulantry citizens duty.Why not have mace or a tazer an a gun if an only if the person he confronys happened to also have a gun?Also after drawing his weapon ....Why not say look IM armed cease an desist resisting an hitting me.An if this failed why not shoot him in the leg or arm anywhere infact that would not be fatal with timely medical assistance.Why go for a fatal area ie chest heart ect.I know if someone pulled a gun on me Id start moonalking if they ordered me to. I certainly would not continue asaulting the alleged victim. You dont bring fists or evven a knife to a gunfight. M O O.

    [Mace would have been a better and safer alternative, but some people are stuck on guns, where actions speak louder than words. Assuming that Zimmerman had a choice - and could have fired a warning shot first - in a situation like that where time is of the essence - would he have had time to react differently? I don't know. Were they fighting over the gun? I don't know. My main argument is still the same. The idiot should have heeded the dispatcher. He should have thought about his own NW rules of weapons and engagement. Common sense tells you not to do what Zimmerman did. Is it against the law to be a moronic idiot? I don't know.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered Commenterecossie possie

    Dave, As I just went looking for you under the trees something else struck me, those heifers are BLACK with WHITE faces. :-)

    [I guess that means they can be hated by either side. Or both.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterNew Puppy

    Shyloh,

    Jesse Jackson has made a career of changing civil rights and voting legislation. It is true that his focus has been on poor blacks and Hispanics, because these are the groups which have been impacted the most. You may or may not agree with that notion, but that in of itself does not make him a racist.

    Part of our history includes attaching labels to African American leaders who attach themselves to a cause. I have heard Al Sharpton and Jesse speak on a number of occasions and both are very adamant about discouraging violence. Sharpton is also a regular commentator on MSNBC but I've not heard any racist statements from him as well.

    As to the comment about black on black crime, there have been a number of marches and initiatives to address that problem.

    It may serve you well to read some of the works of Eugene Robinson who speaks of the four Black America's. One a very stable Black middle and professional class, 2. an emerging middle and upper class of Caribbeans 3. A distinct elite and wealthy class and 4,inner city group trapped in poverty. Black on Black ( any the majority of black crimes) tends to occur in that fourth group. Here is where education becomes tantamount to improved race relations.

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    Is our rational or affiliations swaying our opinions? I believe the following is worth a read and makes a great deal of sense.
    When religion and politics enters the fray, you can bet your bottom dollar, a reasonable solution is non-existant. JMO


    Poll: Trayvon Martin case divides US by race, age, wealth and politics

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    The following coming from Bill Cosby does make good sense...Bill also uses good judgement in other areas concerning blacks.

    Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

    “We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

    “Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

    Read more here at Source

    [Precisely what I have been saying! I've always liked and admired Bill Cosby.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    This is happening all over and yet we only hear of a select few. This is a case of when the shoe is on the other foot. You will watch a video and see and hear a black man give his take on what happened. This man is to be commended for using common sense in his fairness in seeking justice. Here is just an except.

    Another hate crime, but this time it appears nobody in the mainstream media noticed.

    Just days after the tragedy that claimed the life of Trayvon Martin, a young boy, only 13 years of age, was assaulted by two 16-year-olds in Kansas City, Mo., and then set aflame. The boy was walking home from school at about 3 p.m., when he apparently realized two older teens were following him.

    In the words of his mother, "They rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open... (one of them) poured the gasoline, then flicked the Bic, and said, 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.'"

    Video and write up Here

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Where's my comment, Dave? Too volatile or lost in internet space? I filled it with historical facts.

    [I've been out shopping, but I'm home now 5:50. There is nothing in moderation. I always type my comment in a word editor, copy and paste it into the comment. That way, if it doesn't work, I've always got my back up. I give you my word, I did not delete any comment of yours, Sherry.]

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    I loves ya, Dave. I do copy my comments because I have had problems with losing comments here. That's what I did and I thought it had posted so off I went to get the video on the Black Male Code.

    Anyways, I don't think that any good Jackson has done should go unnoticed but that doesn't mean he's not a bigot-he is anti-semitic, along with Sharpton. Here is the link that I posted to show that:

    Sharpton's Racist and Violence-Provoking History

    I'm a realist who is idealistically wanting to see the day when race is not a factor for anything other than being proud of who God created us to be and the culture He ordained for us in our birth. I guess I'll have to wait for it in God's Kingdom. :-)

    I'll say no more in case that comment comes flying in for a landing after its internet space trip~

    TYVM for the link on Sanford~

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    Dave thank you for your kind words and I agree that at the end of the day we must find a way to break bread at the dinner table. I do think that this is a conversation that we needed to have a long time and, which is part has turned this increasingly more bitter.

    To Sherry,

    I have read comments by some blacks as well as whites who have asked why are we focusing on Travor instead of the larger black on black crime issue. I have attempted to explain that in a previous post but I say this to those who believe that. Sometimes it takes that one case of high public interest to change public policy. The same argument could be made when the nation was affixed on Caylee Anthony for nearly three years. Certainly, there were a number of other children who were murdered during that same period. Where we do disengage the Caylee story because of it? In the end, we now have new legislation owing to the public interest in that case.,

    In the case of Tarvor will it make him less dead if we abandon our focus on this case? Will it make Zimmerman less culpable? I believe that this case also illuminates a need to change our public policy as well.

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    test

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    ITA, Porky3100

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    Dave, the link you passed on to us about the 5 things about Sanford, which show its problems with racism, has, as number 5, the beating of the homeless man that Zimmerman helped to petition the citizens to get him his deserved justice. In my search of this here is what I found:

    GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: IS THIS A RACIST?

    And this link shows what he wrote to area churches:

    Letter to Sanford Churches

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    What I find most concerning is what Martin must have been doing from 7:11:48PM to 7:13:41PM. This is the time when Zimmerman tells dispatch that Martin is running to the time that Zimmerman ends his call to dispatch. That’s a full two minutes. What is Martin doing in this time period? He started running, then what? It’s clear he didn’t run home because the home he was staying at is about 100 yards down on this map and to the right. While Zimmerman was tied up on the phone with dispatch, Martin had more than enough time to reach the house (an average high school student can run the 100-yard dash in about 12-15 seconds). So at 7:15-7:16PM when Martin’s girlfriend says he told her “he lost the guy” what does that mean exactly? Because by 7:15 (if he was sprinting home in terror) he should have been back in the townhouse, given the Skittles to Chad and had time to turn on the TV. I just can’t understand why at 7:15 he wasn’t even close to the the house, rather he was closer to Zimmerman’s truck. If you start the timer starting from Zimmerman’s truck (hypothetically) and even if Martin walked the entire way, in two minutes he should have easily been back to the townhouse.

    There needs to be an explanation as to why Martin didn’t go home, instead he must have initially run and then stayed in the area of the shooting for those two minutes while Zimmerman was finishing up his discussion with dispatch (and obviously not running). Why didn’t he run home? I just wonder who was planning on engaging who? Is it possible that a 17-year old on the phone with his girlfriend might be acting a little cocky about the jerk who is watching him on the street? That sounds like a lot of 17-year olds I know. The girlfriend might know more about that conversation than she is leading us to believe.

    One thing is clear from the dispatch call, Zimmerman isn’t acting crazed like he intends to follow and gun down this individual. If that were the case, why would he have even called the cops? What it does seem like is that he was trying to keep a visual on him so he didn’t lose sight of him by the time the cops showed up. I don’t view his actions as “stalking” or “chasing after” or “vigilantism”. What seems to make sense to me is that (for whatever reason) he likely felt that Martin matched the description of the individuals who had been breaking into homes in his area and he was keeping an eye on him until the cops could get there. That meant he had to get out of the truck since Martin ran off, I don’t see how he could have had intentions of engaging with Martin if he had already called the cops. Chasing him down and intentionally engaging with him doesn’t add up to me. Judging from Zimmerman's past behavior, it would seem odd that he would go up and engage with someone he thought suspicious. This is a guy who keeps an eye on things and then calls the cops. He doesn’t engage.

    So the fact that Martin didn’t run home in the two minutes after Zimmerman told dispatch he was running, to the time the dispatch call ended. And the fact that Zimmerman is the one who appears to have been attacked (it’s clear there was a fight because someone is screaming for help in the 911 calls placed by the residents - and the enhanced ABC video in the police station shows gashes on Zimmerman’s head and a witness who saw the fight from about 20 feet away say it was Zimmerman being beaten), leads me to believe this must have been self-defense.

    The image you posted of the “Zimmerman path” where he initially heads south then east and cuts back north to meet with Martin doesn’t make sense because he would have to have been moving twice as fast as Martin and during the dispatch call Zimmerman is clearly not running, rather he seems to be milling around.

    April 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCarrie

    I do not think that Zimmernan handing out flyers proves or disprove whether he is a racist or not. I mean how many time did we see the Anthony family parading flyers around only to get in court and tell every possible lie to get their daughter off. The action that we need concern ourselves with is whether he was reckless when he killed an unarmed teen who by all indications had done nothing wrong whatsoever.

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    First of all, I was one of those that jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman was racially motivated in shooting Trayvon dead. Thankfully, my pride didn't stop me from wanting to know the truth about his motivations though its been slow in coming to accept that he wasn't a racist. By his actions, I do believe Zimmerman is NOT a racist now just as by Sharpton's actions he has been shown to be a racist without apology. At least Jackson apologized for his Hymie Town remark. Now, how dumb would it be to help a black man to receive justice if he were a racist? GMAB~

    What I see so far is that the Sanford community will be divided no matter how the investigation turns out. Jackson will not allow for it to be anything but murder. He did the same in the Mark Barmore case despite all of the seperate investigations. Christian men and women and pastors of color calling people murderers (in the Barmore case it was the police officers) without fear of false witnessing before the God they worship. Pride can be a terrible thing when it blinds people to the truth of a matter.

    April 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    Sherry~ ~ I for one from the very beginning have not felt that Zimmerman was/is a racist. That was before I learned about him passing out the flyers etc.

    I do believe he made mistakes on the evening of Feb 26th. He should never have been in the role of a Neighborhood Watchman while carrying a concealed weapon. In other words, he should never have gotten out of his truck with the gun concealed in his waistband if his intentions were to act as a NW. He also did not follow the advice of the 911 dispatcher and for those things, I fault him.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Porky3100~~with all due respect, we do not know what transpired on the evening of Feb 26th that ended in an altercation and a man shot to death. Was Zimmerman returning to his truck and was jumped from behind? If that was the case, then Trayvon did do something wrong. We just do not know. I have a gut feeling that this will not end up the way the majority wants it to. I hate to think of the aftermath when a decision is finally reached.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Now, get this. We just had a case of a "Stand Your Ground" double shooting right near here, both being fatalities, in Spartanburg:

    http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/apr/07/6/two_people_shot_burglary-ar-3559909/

    No arrest here either, but- although I don't know this for a fact- I'm pretty sure the apartment dweller here is also black (identity is not being disclosed thus far). Ground floor apartment- these two guys were trying to get into the place via a window in an area where there are a number of A/C units and thus were obscured from view. Remind me to never take a ground floor apartment! Everyone living there who was interviewed for the news on Channel 4 was black and they all seemed to heartily approve of this action.

    What's kinda creepy to me, anyway, is that this article states that gunshots are frequently heard there as the woods and fields nearby have lots of hunters! And there are little kids all around...

    I have a terrible feeling we'll see a substantial uptick in the number of these cases....

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterKaren C.

    Snoopy. I guess we will have to just agree to disagree then. I do think that Zimmermans new lawyers have done a fine snow job by meta tagging the Sanford homeless story and indeed while it did not fool all of the people, it has fooled enough people.

    We can play semantics all day but we do know that Zimmerman and some of his neighbors were on the lookout for young black men. I believe that Zimmerman followed Travon for not other reason except that he was a young black man.

    I do not believe that it is appropriate to follow law abiding people around with loaded guns and I truly hope that the situation never arises where some nutcase decides to follow you or a loved one of your around with a loaded weapon when all that you are doing is walking.

    I fear that left unchecked, this action will set in motion a license for others to engage in the exact same conduct with no fear of reprisal.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    No, Zimmerman did not act crazed like he was really suspect of this young man, and really needed some help. He was cool, calm and calculating and that is not a good thought either. , If I need correcting on the following, please do, but I do not recall that Zimmerman told the cops he was carrying a gun and I do not recall anywhere the cops asked him if he was carrying a gun. I would like to hear the cops answer to a question "do you feel that a man such as Zimmerman, self professed neighborhood watch should be allowed to carry a gun. It seems that if he had the liberty to carry (was it a concealed weapon, did he identify to Trayvon that he had a gun) why any citizen who decides they want could carry also. This tragic issue is like me seeing some one in the middle of the road, I am headed toward him, so I step on the gas pedal instead of slowing down or stopping, all for the good of everyone.

    April 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterNew Puppy

    That's what I fear too, Porky3100- I really think Zimmerman was working himself right up into a heart-thumping, adrenalin rush. We'll just have to see if, after forensics, the autopsy report, and whatever medical report was written up on Zimmerman's physical condition, etc. there is any real way he could have felt at all justified in what he did, but clearly he initiated whatever confrontation there was. No way do I think Trayvon said and acted exactly in the way Zimmerman says he did- doesn't even make sense. No, I think Zimmerman thought up a conversation to strengthen his position in this mess and to get him out of doodoo. It's possible that at some point Trayvon was on top of him, it's also possible it started out one way and ended up with their relative positions being switched. What I do know is that if Zimmerman had just stayed in the dang vehicle no one would be dead now.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterKaren C.

    Not only that Karen I remember as a child my parents taught me that if you see a stranger following you, do everything possible to get away from that stranger and above all never ever let a stranger get you in corner. Fight if you have to. but never allow yourself to get cornered. Here is another scenario that I fear, Creepy guy starts stalking a woman and corners her. Woman goes to pull out mace or some defensive maneuver and a struggle ensues at which time he shoots her dead but claims he feared for his life. For all we know, Travor may well have fought to try to get away.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    Karen C~ ~ I couldn't agree more. Let's hope we get to see some facts from fornesics.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Dave, Porky3100 et al....

    I would like to see the statistics of how many break-ins occured in the Twin Gates gated community. Were any charged and if so, what race were they? What about attempted break-ins and the descriptions of those who got away? I would also like to know where Zimmerman and his neighbors discussed looking for blacks. I do my best to deal with facts so I just sit on the fence and wait for something factual to be presented. I heard two different stories about Zimmerman standing up for a black man. Which one is correct, I haven't the slightest idea. It was my *assumption that this case was not racist before that story ever emerged.

    In order to be fair, we must look at both sides of the coin. Do we deal with logic or raw emotion? This makes all the difference in the world.

    I do not live in the United States so therefore, I do not make any remarks about Rev Al Sharpton or the Rev Jesse Jackson. We have strict gun laws in my country, concealed weapons are prohibited. The only Stand Your Ground law that I know of here is, if someone forcefully breaks into your home, you can shoot and ask questions later. I do not try to shove Canadian laws down anyone's throat because I would not want anyone to do the same to me. This is one reason, I shy away from discussing our laws, religion or politics on a blog or forum.

    So that leaves me with trying to piece together what really happened with little to go on. In the Anthony case, we had oodles of legal documents for these hungry eyes of mine. This is one reason that I have taken an interest in the Sunshine State because my passtime is being an armchair detective.

    I do voice an opinion and I speculate... I believe this is in our nature. Until I am armed with factual facts, I refuse to get in a war of words. Dave can attest to that as we have butted heads on many occasions so I learned my lesson to always be prepared. (we do our sparring behind the scenes now and things do tend to get a bit wild)

    Until something big occurs, I will continue to sleuth and post both the pros and cons of things I find. They will not reflect on my own personal beliefs.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Snoopy I have always enjoyed reading your post and do appreciate your perspective on things.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    Carrie - I have read a different account when Z starts his 911 call at 7.11 PM and hangs up at 7.15 PM. Almost simultaneously the T GF call comes in at 7.12 PM. In either case ( call starting at 7.09 or 7.11 ) , the 'He is running' statement is made 2 minutes and a few seconds into the call. According to the GF T says he is not going to run but he is going to walk fast. Z sees someone that has been walking fairly casually upto this point, suddenly starting to walk purposefully and he believes that T is running towards the back entrance ( actually it looks like it is on the side to the back ). The best way to go to the back entrance would have been by the main road - Twin Trees Ln. But Z fully believes that T is 'up to no good' and 'on drugs or something' and is also fully aware of the between the houses path route to the back entrance maybe because he believes that T has actually burgalarized and is familiar with this complex/ So though he believed earlier that T is 'upto no good', 'on drugs' and is wandering about aimlessly, he now believes that T knows exactly what he wants to do and is running away. You could not ask for a better case of 'Profiling'.

    I agree with you though that there is still a full 2 minutes from the 'He is running' comment to the time that Z hangs up with the 911 dispatch. It is a lot of time for T to get away if indeed he were to put his head down and run or walk fast. Maybe not all the way home....but further than where his body was found. But that is the case with Z too....there is about 1.5 minutes from when the dispatch told him to stop following T till he hung up. At that point, Z is closer to his truck than T is to his home. But neither moved apart, they stayed in the same area and only got closer to each other in this period. If the GF's story is to be believed ( At 16 I am not going to lie and perjure myself ), the confrontation happened at 7.16 PM and the call ended abruptly ).
    The relevant portion of the 'Stand your Ground' statute reads as follows :
    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    The sad part about this law is that it clarifies nothing about pursuit, provocation etc. Can one pursue someone, provoke a fight ? Start losing, shoot someone and invoke this statute in his defence ? The fact that there is no clarification only means that such situations have not come up too often and Z is in the minority.

    April 8, 2012 | Unregistered Commenterskalathil

    Dave, Towards the end of Zimmerman's 911 call, there is a knocking sound. It sounds like a knocker on a front door.
    Just wondered if you had any thoughts on that.

    [To be honest, milo, I didn't hear it. I did hear the faint ring of another call coming into a dispatcher. I guess all I can say is that any of those sounds could be a lot of different things, and it's not just one end of the call. In other words, the noise you may have heard could have come from Zimmerman or the dispatcher.]

    April 8, 2012 | Unregistered Commentermilo

    Dave~~it is sad that it has come to this....

    Neo-Nazi Vigilantes Are Patrolling Sanford’s Streets

    [They are the dregs of the human race. Interestingly, the white population agrees with me on this one, and the blacks feel the same way about those New Black Panther gutter rats. Extremists abound everywhere.]

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Off topic

    Dave, Mike Wallace has passed away.

    Mike Wallace dead: legendary 60 Minutes reporter dies at 93

    [I was just thinking about him the other day, too, wondering about his health.]

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Apparently Zimmerman did have a permit to carry a gun and in the USA this is perfectly legal. So as a member of the neighborhood watch or otherwise, according the the second amendment of the United States Zimmerman was perfectly in his right to bear arms.

    So I think regardless of neighborhood watch guidelines its clear that Zimmerman was legal under the court of law. Neighborhood watch guidelines don’t trump the constitution. Of course there is great debate over whether or not that should even be in the constitution, but the fact remains this is how it currently stands in the United States.

    So the debate over whether or not Zimmerman should have had a gun in this situation is kind of moot. Zimmerman has no history of using a gun for intimidation or to hunt people down. Typically, they are used for protection against an attacker and to me at this point it seems clear Zimmerman was being attacked. I feel this way because there is no where that Martin could have been cornered and he had 2 minutes to travel 100 yards to the place where he was staying and instead stayed close to Zimmerman as they both talked on their respective phones (Zimmerman to dispatch and Martin to his girlfriend). The only thing that possibly makes any sense here is that Martin was waiting for Zimmerman, otherwise he would have been home long ago.

    During the recored phone call to dispatch Zimmerman (after he tells them that “he ran”) clearly doesn’t see Martin anymore but is looking for him as to make sure he will be able to relay his location to the cops that were about to show up. It’s clear he doesn’t see Martin at this time because he specifically says he doesn’t want to give out his address because he doesn’t know where the kid went. After Zimmerman hung up with dispatch, the altercation almost immediately happens since the first 911 call of someone screaming for help had begun right afterwards.

    So honestly, what sort of altercation makes sense here? Why was Martin still so close to Zimmerman instead of closer to his home? Does it really make sense that Zimmerman hung up with dispatch only to begin hunting after Martin (a kid who had a two minute head start) in order to gun him down as the cops were about to show up? Or does it make more sense that Martin didn’t go very far at all and instead came out and asked Zimmerman why he was following him (as Zimmerman sort of walked towards him in the walkway) and then popped him one? Who was physically attacked in this situation? Who was screaming for help during the 911 calls?

    Many of you say that Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of the truck in the first place, but the police are very clear on reporting suspicious activity. Zimmerman knew the cops were about to show up and getting out of the car to see where a suspicious person might have run or hid is not out of the ordinary and this is not the same as “stalking” or “hunting someone down”. This is taking a look around to see if you can find someone’s location...I don’t know, this doesn't’ seem like vigilante behavior to me. It just seems like he was looking for him.

    What people don’t have a right to do, is to start punching someone in the face and slamming their head into the concrete. We know Martin wasn’t terrified by this guy or he would have run home. We also know Martin wasn’t cornered anywhere either as that is perfectly clear from the google map image of the neighborhood.

    The only thing that really makes sense to me is that Zimmerman was defending himself from a physical attack after Martin waited for him to get off the phone.

    [Note: The U.S. Constitution grants citizens the right to bear arms. It has nothing to do with a concealed weapons law, which is a state issued permit. The U.S. Constitution does not grant us the right to wave guns around. It gives us the right to own them.]

    April 8, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCarrie

    Snoopy. This article disputes that story but I have NOT checked either article out for accuracy

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick/2012/04/08/ny-daily-news-other-sites-publish-false-neo-nazis-patrolling-sanford-st

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterPorky3100

    Porky3100's link


    Porky3100, thanks. I will check it out.

    [edit- Porky3100, I am getting so confused with some of these media outlets putting out false information. I never know what to believe anymore.]

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Happy Easter.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterNew Puppy

    Happy Easter to you too, New Puppy and to everyone who stops by.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSnoopySleuth

    Happy Resurrection Day!~ He is Risen...!

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterSherry

    Happy Easter to all my Christian friends and Happy Passover to all my Jewish friends. My family was together for Easter today and I was invited to a Passover dinner at a friends house this weekend. i will now wobble for a week.

    April 8, 2012 | Registered CommenterNika1

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