October 19 Post-Hearing Photos
Friday, October 19, 2012 at 8:13PM Instead of spending my evening writing on the hearing that went on in the courtroom, I’ll publish some of the photographs I took. This will give me time to write my thoughts on the day’s events over the weekend. There were, obviously, some very interesting things that were argued over and decided in the courtroom. Judge Nelson is a fantastic judge. She’s stern, but fair, and she has a sense of humor. More on her later.
Click on photos to enlarge
In the next two photos, Robert Zimmerman, Jr. responds to a question posed by NBC national correspondent Kerry Sanders
Mark O’Mara during post-hearing press conference
WFTV’s legal analyst Bill Sheaffer and Zimmerman defense attorney Donald West
WFTV’s legal analyst Bill Sheaffer and Mark O’Mara
All Photos © David B. Knechel - ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
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Reader Comments (26)
Great photos!! Robert Jr. will have a hard time sounding credible now when saying he can be mistaken for his brother. It looks as if George has gained at least 50 pounds since we last saw him.
I anxiously await your post on the hearing. Thanks Dave!!
[Thank you, Xena. After I went thru security and was putting my things away, George walked right by me, within inches. We looked at each other, but he kept on walking. I noticed how much weight he had gained. On the way up a later elevator, I rode with a local journalist. She said he looked like he gained 100 lbs. I said he probably eats too much pizza and Chinese takeout since he can't really go anywhere.
I hope to have a new post up by tomorrow afternoon. I hope, I hope.]
I always wondered what happened to that kid who used to apear on the covers of M A D magazzine.Geuse he grew up an became M O M.....
[You mean Alfred E. O'Neuman???]
Dave: Thanks for the pictures! : - )
I was really impressed with Judge Nelson. I don't think Mr. West shared my opinion, though.
Oh, well. How does that old saying go--be careful what you ask for?
One more thing--in light of Georgie's significant weight gain, I guess Junior will no longer be able to say that people could easily mistake him for his brother.
[I was impressed, too, nan11. I also think West has an attitude, but I'll say more on that later. I think Judge Nelson will do a great job on this case, too. She'll be very stern, but very fair.
Definitely, the brothers don't look alike any more.]
Dave said: [Google takes snapshots of all web pages, so there are records available thru that. I believe there are other services that do the same thing. While the Florida court granted the defense motion, Facebook will argue that it's got to be filed in a California court. At that time, once the defense exhausts all avenues, Nelson will address it and probably use her powers as a judge to overrule Facebook. Well, maybe. Facebook is mighty powerful and could take it to a higher court. I don't know where it would go from there, but remember, public pages remain public. It's private pages that becomes the issue with Facebook, I believe.
I did put some pictures up from after the hearing.]
Me: Dave, I hope you don't mind if I bring this over here. Sorry, about still being over there on your old thread!
Would Google take the snapshots on a daily basis of everyone's social media pages? Would they have pictures of Trayvon's pages say on the 25, 26, 27, 28 and right up until they were taken down?
Can it really be verified that they are 100% sure those messages on those pages came from Trayvon?
I'm not being snarky here. I really want to know. It is more than only Mr. Crump that are saying otherwise.
Yes, nan11, Google takes pictures of everything. Of course, that doesn't mean any of those pages weren't hacked before the snapshots were taken. O'Mara even said he couldn't validate their authenticity. Anyway, I'm not too worried about it at all, and I'll explain why in the follow-up post, so even if the pages are real, that doesn't mean a thing.
Facebook's terms and conditions for discovery fall under federal law. They provide services internationally. They consider and honor subpoenas issued by law enforcement; not defendants in criminal cases. FB has a different set of rules for honoring subpoenas in civil matters.
When one of their attorneys said that the defense will have to argue it in a California Court, he was inferring to the location of Facebook's offices. MOM can file in the federal district court in Florida, but FB can motion for change of venue to California. Most things in the federal system are conducted by e-service, so MOM would only have to concern himself with commuting to argue pleadings.
I seriously doubt that Google would be able to verify the ACCOUNT HOLDER for the screenshots that it takes. That would include the IP address that the account holder posts from, the email address used, and residential address.
[I did not know that, Xena. I'm going to assume the federal aspect is due to crossing state lines and international borders with their service. Most interesting to me is that they will only honor law enforcement subpoenas.
I am curious about how FB will react when Judge Nelson involves herself. By that, I mean I don't expect them to hand over any documents to the defense. Not freely, anyway.
I agree, too, that Google is not in the business of logging IP addresses of screenshots. Besides, they couldn't possibly know the IPs of FB commenters anyway. That's not their job, any more than it is to determine IPs on my site, which is also captured like all the rest. Speaking of addresses, I'm going to address this issue in my new post. I think it's very important to explain.
Thank you very much for this excellent information. It will prove to be very useful, I'm sure.]
Thanks Dave!
Looks like George ate Osterman.
And Ichbad Crane O'Mara has a face made for radio!
Jr. is one unlikable MF. Why is he even doing interviews? If I didn't hate these gyspsies b4, I do now,
Also, Dave, looks like you avoided getting hit by any of the drunk drivers in the extended family. Count your blessings!
[I've always gotten a kick out of that phrase, a face made for radio. For some people, it's true.
George sure has been eating, obviously. I was talking to a friend this morning and she said that depression will cause weight gain. I guess you eat more to counter the blues. I know you didn't ask, but I would guess that if O'Mara asks to lift Z's restriction to remain in Seminole county, Judge Nelson will stick with Judge Lester's order. She did say she would entertain all motions, though, and I'm surprised one has not been filed yet.
No drunk drivers, fortunately, but I did talk to one in particular yesterday. It's never a fun thing to go through, that's for sure.
Hey, Manberk! Great to see you. Thanks.]
LLMPapa has a new video. ┌( ಠ‿ಠ)┘
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Oct 20, 2012 by LLMPapa | A Potted Palm
Huge, fast weight gain can also be cause by a change in medication; or, perhaps, the absence of medication. (imo)
From Zimmerman's appearance yesterday--meaning the nodding off in court--I suspect a 'change'., though. (imo)
[You gotta love those videos from LLMPapa. Thank you for bringing his links in here, nan11.
I guess it could be medications, too, or lack thereof. Personally, I think he's eating more out of boredom, and it seems like he's had a weight problem over the years, anyway. He's not working, and he sure ain't working out, either!
I had no idea he was nodding off. I remember the same thing during the Anthony case. Sitting in the courtroom, I can't see their faces, so I have no idea what's going on. That's where you have the vantage point.
By the way, there was an interesting piece on Adderall on the Today show this morning. Big college drug now for cramming. It's speed - dextroamphetamine and amphetamine. The side effects are interesting, including difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep.]
Thanks for attending Dave looking foward to your article this case is going foward with a no nonsence meticulas Judge I realy like her.Nelson will impossose Zimmermans last an long Stand very apt for someone with a Napolean complex....B T W Im talking bout this geezer isnt he a young M O M......Even got same Initials M A D. http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=23c135e1f1b9518dab4442d04243030d&action=media;sa=media;in=234;preview
[My pleasure, ecossie. You're correct about Judge Nelson being no nonsense. Maybe the defense thinks that the third time's the charm, but I believe she is similar to Judge Lester. She's not going to let Zimmerman get away with anything, meaning she's not sympathetic to his cause. That's a good thing, too.]
MSNBC Today | Aired on October 20, 2012 | VIDEO | Adderall: An ‘academic steriod’?
Video Write-up:
An increasing number of high school and college kids around the country are taking an ADHD drug to help them study. It’s a dangerous quick fix for ambitious students hoping to make sure the succeed. NBC’s Kate Snow reports.
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry | Preventing and Managing Medication-Related Weight
Quote:
Weight gain is possible with many medications. Some examples of medications that can lead to weight gain include:
Antipsychotics: such as aripiprazole (Abilify), chlorpromazine (Thorazine), clozaphine (Clozaril), olanzapine (Zyprexa), pimozide (Orap), quetiapine (Seroquel), risperidone (Risperdal), ziprasidone (Geodon)
Mood stabilizers: such as lithium, valproic acid (Depakote/Depakene), carbamazepine (Tegretol)
Antidepressants: such as mirtazapine (Remeron), paroxetine (Paxil), imipramine (Tofranil)
Quitting Adderall | July 27, 2012 | How To Beat Post-Adderall Weight Gain
Quote:
Aside from keeping up at work, it seems that weight gain is one of the biggest hurdles many Adderall users face when quitting. Totally understandable! Adderall takes the effort out of staying thin, just like it takes the effort out of doing work. Plus, most people who have been on Adderall for a long time have been starving their bodies for awhile. When they stop taking the pills and start eating normally again, their bodies want to store as many calories in fat as possible in anticipation of another starvation period.
I had the hiccups for almost two weeks about 6 years ago. I was prescribed Thorazine, which is really a schizophrenia treatment drug. The hiccups were driving me nuts. When I got home from the pharmacy, I took one pill and waited. Bear in mind, I hadn't had a night's sleep in a long time at that point. I waited. And waited. After an hour-and-a-half, I still had the hiccups, so I took another pill. Soon after, I was feeling about as stoned as I'd ever been, so I moseyed on back to bed and fell fast asleep. This was in the late afternoon, and I didn't wake up until the next morning. By golly, those hiccups were gone and they never came back. Today, if I hiccup, I get VERY nervous, but they never hit me like they did back then.
I take ropinirole on top of all the other meds. It's used to treat Parkinson's, but I take it for restless leg syndrome. It's quite interesting that drugs can be used for different reasons. I wasn't even aware I had restless leg syndrome until I went for a sleep study for sleep apnea.
So glad to hear today that Judge Nelson is a Stern but Fair Judge. I am so worried that Mr. O'Mara will try and walk all over her and the court system.
I just find him to be that way! He seems to try and take the stage and his partner
Mr. West he tried also. It was nice to see Judge Nelson shut Mr. West up and sit him down! What I don't understand is how come the defense can get all this infomation on Trayvon and the state can't even get Zimmermans health records from way back when. He had troubles at work in the past and so on... Why can't the state get everything on Zimmerman's past including his School Records??
Thanks Dave for all that you do!!!
[Hello, sunshine5241... It's very nice to see you!
Judge Nelson will do a great job with this case. What you must keep in mind, though, is that the State already has Zimmerman's school records and, I believe, his phone records. As a matter of fact, his school records were released in discovery by mistake. The State has vast power when it comes to subpoenas, but the defense must ask the court for Trayvon's, which it did yesterday. It's easier for a prosecution, too, because they are going after a defendant. All the defendant can do is to try to disprove the State and show that he wasn't the aggressor. I'm going into that on my next post, which I've already started writing. I hope I can put it all in a proper perspective.
I would hope that the State will get Zimmerman's medical records for more than the 30 day period before and after the incident, especially the before, because there's no telling what types of drugs he was prescribed over the years and for how long. That interests me.
Anyway, thank you for commenting and for the kind words of appreciation. I hope to hear more from you as this story progresses. You are quite welcome, you know.]
Nan thanks for the link to LLMPapa.
Dave thanks for the photos. Mr Zimmerman should exercise. It is not healthy on your heart to drop a lot of weight quickly or gain it quickly. Normally if you lose a lot of weight due to an illness they slowly increase your calorie intake. More than likely the Doctor took him off Adderall because it is a stimulant. So if he has another condition along with his ADD the medicine could have made it worse.
Some of that is my opinion but for the most part it is accurate. You know it kind of shocks me that Mr Zimmerman's brother is still talking. The stuff he said in the beginning about adult diapers turned out to be an epic fail- with the release of the EMT report of course.
[I don't know what meds he's on today, but I hope it's from nightmares. Actually, my guess is he's got sleep apnea and may not have been treated yet. He's a prime candidate for it, especially with the GERD/acid reflux problems he has. That one, I DO know about.
As for his brother, there he was, but did anyone really report on anything he said? I don't think so.]
Great pictures, close up! You have a great camera and thank you for them. I don't know how old attorney O'Mara is but as well as he presents himself to the press, he appears to be sort of "drained" so my thought is that maybe the water he loses, George Zimmerman has sucked up?
I agree with you all here, Judge Debra S. Nelson is quite the lady but I wouldn't tamper with her femininity because she has shown how to invite you in as long as you wipe your feet and mind your manners. In watching most of the hearing, my view of Don West is that of temper restrained, and I thought for awhile O'Mara was using sign language for those with hearing impairment and that was a nice thing for him to do.
Looking forward to reading your on the spot covering in your upcoming post. You briefly mentioned George Zimmerman walking right by you, it will be interesting to read about any possible attraction between the two of you. Like eye contact or emotional vibes.
[I must admit, it's a handy dandy little Fuji camera. I like it, but one day I want to graduate to a better one. I'm not in any hurry, though, because they can run into some serious money. This one works just fine, as you could see.
That's funny about the water comparison. I am pretty sure that O'Mara is just a few years younger than me, so I would put him somewhere around 56 or so.
Judge Nelson will be a great judge for this case because she will be very fair to all concerned.
Since you wrote this comment, I have put up my new post, so you will get more of an idea of what took place from reading that.
Thank you, MO. I plan on continuing my coverage and I hope you keep reading!]
I read where people can not understand why Robert Jr doesn't back off from his media exposure. Possibly he is thinking of the future, in which he imagines himself in the role of "George" in any movie offers. Robert is a little better looking and quite the actor when it comes to memorizing the lies of the script.
Comments that George Zimmerman appears in looks and behavior to be medicated, is it possible that he is just that and will be "kept that way" particularly if he comes to trial. Used to portray that he NEEDS his medications and if not on them, has difficulty in his reasoning abilities. Impulsive, not capable to think it out before doing? I am of the opinion that the defense will lean on this heavily at trial in effort to bring a jury to decide George didn't understand that what he was doing at the time, to be an act of criminal aggression.
MO: Great comments!
I won't pretend that I understand why he is being medicated, but I believe that he is.
In my opinion, no matter what Georgie's medicated condition portrays at the start of the immunity hearing or trial--the state will have his interviews wherein he [George Zimmerman] articulated that he gained wrist control of Trayvon; and he [George Zimmerman] aimed his gun and fired.
Also, the state will have his many interviews depicting that Trayvon punched him once in the face--at the 'T' of the dog walk intersection--and he [George Zimmerman] fell down, immediately, right there at the' T.'
And, the state will be able to show the actual location of where the body of Trayvon Martin laid, after he was shot dead by George Zimmerman--at least 40 feet from the 'T.'
Currently medicated or not, I do not believe it can amend the evidence released in discovery. imo
Thank you Nan11, It will certainly be hard to find anything more than George Zimmerman "aimed his gun and fired" and difficult to believe that where he aimed was just a coincidental hit "straight on into Trayvon's heart" I wrangle with the position the two were in at the time of the shot being fired, at times I think they could have been standing or in a semi kneel/stand position. We know for sure through fact released Trayvon's fingerprints were not on the gun, so there was no threat that George was the one that was going to be shot. That distance difference in where Trayvon's body lay is a puzzle to me, If Trayvon punched George at the "T" for sure that would have angered George and imo he would have been in a rage at that moment going after Trayvon and in no way hesitant to have already drawn his gun. I believe Trayvon saw George with his gun in hand before any nature of wrestling ever took place. By the way, you are a very generous contributor in the way you bring information to this blog.
MO: Thank you!
Yes, imo George's statement that he 'aimed his gun' indicates that he was conscious and aware and in control of his actions.. His statement that he 'had wrist control of Trayvon' indicates that he [George] could have escaped if he had wanted.
Regarding the position at the time of the shot--I go back and forth on that, too. Currently I am favoring the kneeling position. I think this supports the witness statements of a ground struggle immediately prior to hearing the shot and also accounts for the bullet trajectory. Tomorrow, I may feel differently. : - )
The 'thing' about Trayvon's body being found 40 plus feet from the 'T' intersection is that at no time does George say there was a chase. Among other lies, he says that Trayvon hit him at the 'T.' He says he immediately fell to the ground at the 'T.' He says Trayvon got on top of him and began banging his head into the sidewalk at the 'T.'
In the re-enactment video, Zimmerman shows us that he was only a few feet from the 'T' intersection. He explains this is where he had shimmied to the grass; pulled his gun and shot Trayvon Martin.
The location of Trayvon's body is a very big problem for the defense in a case where one intends to plead self-defense but cannot admit to being the aggressor.
I'm sure Trayvon saw the gun before George pulled the trigger, but I think Trayvon did absolutely nothing but try to escape. If he even physically hit the depraved idiot, I believe it was accidental.
At least that is my current opinion.
Darn if I didn't fall asleep while writing. I'm about 2/3 into it, but I don't think it will be up tonight. I plum ran out of steam.
UH OH!..........This blogger is a Ghost writer. May be his best post ever, writing while asleep, the subconscious can have free rein! Could be an interesting perception letting us in on many unspoken facts. I would really like that.
Oh no! Dave's Sleepwriting!!
Speaking of sleep, I slept right through the hearing and the only videos I can find of it is on youtube with this guy talking all the way through the first bits of it. That's all I could take of that before turning it off. I guess he was taping from the tv via a camera or his cell phone. Irritating at best. Anyone else have it up where I could watch it?
As far as George's appearance goes, I was left wondering if he's had to buy bigger bullet proof vests. He had to have been wearing one in court because the way his tie was tied was unnatural. He looked drugged up also. I mean who falls asleep during their own hearing? I sure wouldn't. I'd be too worried to. His medical records for sure are going to be of interest to me. I mean he chased a kid down, shot a man for the first time in his life that we know of, talked to police and ems and all his vitals were normal 25 minutes later. I once said less than 20, but since then did the math and it's closer to 25. Still unrealistic to me. I mean what happened to the adrenalin that had to be pumping? Only drugs can cause that kind of adnormal reaction to me. The side effects of the drugs probably caused a lot of what happened that night. I'm looking forward to a self defense hearing, because then he's have to testify and be cross examined (I would hope he would anyway, I don't know for sure).
Good Morning Dave! Nice to hear from you too!
I also hope that the State will get Zimmerman's medical records from his past, like 10 or 15 years ago. I believe he has had problems during his teen years right up to the present. I am so interested to see what's in them. I feel that is why Mark O'Mara mentioned only "30" days "Before" and after.
(there was a reason for that statement)
When I look at Zimmerman's defense team I can't help but see hidden facts that they are praying won't come out to the public.
Well I pray that Zimmerman's life ( all of it ) will come out in the courts, then we will all know what realy happen on that night! Trayvon was a child who went to the store to buy candy for his sister, and met up with a Crazy Monster that took his life!
God knows what happend and we Must have a better ending to this than the Cassy Anthony's story.
[Well, it's Sunday night now, sunshine5241, but as you can see, I was busy writing today.
I think it's important for the State to see Z's medical records for as far back as necessary unless, of course, there's just nothing there. Remember, those meds are supposed to treat problems; therefore, eliminating the problems or keeping them at bay. Remember, just like with Trayvon's school records, if there's nothing there, nothing will be used in court. All of those records are privileged unless they come into play. We may not hear a thing.
Thanks for the morning greeting. I appreciate your comments, so don't hesitate to write any time you want.]
There are three things I would like to see that have not been released or sought after yet. The video of Osterman and Shellie Zimmerman waiting at the police station is public record. I would not be surprised to see Osterman leave with Chief Lee or another officer to the crime scene to get George's truck. The color photo of George sitting in the back of the police car with his coat zipped up will be good to see too. I also want to see the hand drawn sketch that George Zimmerman drew that night. He draws it in the first interview with Singleton. This is not the Google map he marked for her in the second interview.
[Hi, drfessel - It would be nice if we get to see all that, but I don't know if we will. I think most of it should surface sometime down the pike, but when? I don't know. The map would be most interesting to me. We already know that his vehicle was released without any type of examination, so no matter who took it home, it would be meaningless in court. Personally, I think Osterman's book will be enough to hurt his li'l buddy. He's going to be a state witness.
Thanks! Please do come back.]
It looks like Mark O'Mara got his wife to recolor his hair, instead of investing in a professional color which would allow some greying at the temples and a color that isn't natural at his age. Also, as someone else pointed out, he makes facial expressions that clearly do not enhance the story... whatever it is.
The tough job for attorneys is to try and make up something plausible to go with the client's desire to blab... might have been the medications talking. Oh well.. should be interesting.
[Hey... You're talking to the wrong guy about hair - something I know virtually nothing about. But I used to. Also, I notice that you spell grey the same way as me, with an e instead of an a. I think that's the English way.
You know, the defense could very well be setting up their client for a reason why he talked. He was drugged. And he rambled on. Good point, Sandy. Thanks!]
I did answer a few of the comments...