Nelson Acts Admirably - Sets Trial Date
Wednesday, October 17, 2012 at 2:52PM The new judge in the George Zimmerman murder case, Debra S. Nelson, wasted no time when she set a June 10, 2013 trial date at a routinely scheduled docket sounding this morning. The hearing lasted a whole six minutes.
This ends months of speculation over whether it would follow in the footsteps of the Casey Anthony case, which took nearly three years to end; from her arrest in mid-July of 2008 on a first-degree murder charge to her being found not guilty on July 5, 2011.
According to the Orlando Sentinel, “Zimmerman attorney, Mark O’Mara, was noncommittal about when he’d be fully prepared.”
One of Zimmerman’s defense attorneys, Donald R. West, filed a motion on October 12 asking the new judge to consider assigning a senior judge to assist in the hearings.
The motion cited several discovery problems to date:
Upon reviewing the discovery provided it became apparent that the state had failed to include information it had or should have had, or provided the information in a form that was useless for review by [defense] experts or investigators. The defense made specific oral, then written requests to the state to clarify or to produce this discovery.
It also includes other complaints, such as accusing the state of groveling over expert depositions and witness sketches, among other assorted frustrations and delays. While I can understand the frustrations, I fail to see why the problems couldn’t be handled by one fell sweep. In other words, the judge could issue a stern warning that both sides (to be judicially fair) produce discovery in a timely and organized manner. Why the motion goes beyond that by suggesting the “Appointment of a Senior Judge to Handle Discovery Matters Including Problems that Arise During Depositions” is beyond me.
It’s almost as if the defense is hinting that Judge Nelson might not be qualified to handle the whole case. Why?
Remember, Zimmerman waived his right to a speedy trial and the wheels of justice turn slowly, and at this morning’s hearing, O’Mara flatly stated that he had no idea whether he’d be ready by June 10 or not, so why is there a hurry now, and is the defense sending mixed signals?
This Court has a heavy docket, it may be weeks before the Court can schedule sufficient hearing time to address the many issues that have already arisen and will most certainly arise as the discovery phase of the case continues. In order to promote an orderly progression of the case toward a realistic trial date, promote an economy of resources and avoid delay and disruption of this Court’s docket it is suggested that the Court, at a minimum, schedule regular hearing time to address case issues. But, recognizing the heavy time demands this case will require, this Court is asked to consider requesting assignment of a senior judge to preside over discovery and related matters during the pretrial phase of the case.
Senior judges are retired judges, like O.H. Eaton, who serve on an on-call basis to assist in the absence of a judge, or to help one with a heavy docket. In this situation, Nelson wasn’t even given an opportunity to get her feet wet before this motion was filed. If I had gotten a letter like that, I’d dare say someone was blatantly questioning my competence before I had a chance to prove my worth. As a writer, I’d more than likely lambaste the person, but as a judge, I’d gracefully turn down the request and proceed on schedule. Judges, after all, are more thick-skinned than ordinary people like me.
In the quote from the motion, West wrote, “… promote an economy of resources…” I interpreted those words as meaning that regularly scheduled hearings and/or adding another judge to the case would save the county oodles of money. It really caught my attention, so I called the Chief of Court Services in Tallahassee. Is it cost effective to bring on a senior judge? No, right? Well…
Yes, it is.
Senior judges are paid a flat fee of $350, plus change, per day. That means you utilize a judge for the full 8 hours, if possible, which turns into a much more manageable $43.75 per hour. It would be foolish to have a judge show up for a 15 minute hearing because they would still earn $350.
Judge Nelson has two options. She can outright deny the request or she could take the motion into consideration. If she chooses the latter, it would set off a dynamic that would involve the administrative judge and the chief judge of the circuit. It would mean a mini-conference of sorts, moving up the circuit ladder directly above her. She wouldn’t be able to assign a new judge on her own, in other words, but she would be part of the decision-making process.
What I didn’t take into consideration with “… promote an economy of resources…” is that each circuit gets an allotment of senior judge days from the state. They are built into the fiscal budget, which runs from July 1 through June 30 of each year. If a circuit needs to go over that allotment, the state understands that courts are not going to make frivolous requests. There are checks and balances and formal mechanisms in place and the court would petition the chief justice for more days, so it’s not as if the taxpayer is going to be on the hook for wasted funds. There is also the option to have a magistrate handle some of the docket, but in most cases, they are limited, too, because of heavy workloads.
Nothing personal, but here’s the way I see it. If anything, this defense is responsible for a majority of the delays because of the motions filed to recuse two judges, including an appeal. This gave the defense time to square things with the state, and if these problems do exist, this is the matter that the defense should request the court address — not whether the judge can handle the docket. George Zimmerman already removed two judges and before the new one had a chance to sit on the bench, he questioned whether she is up to the job or not. Well, she is. At this morning’s hearing, she noted that she will be reassigned to the civil court in January, and that will free up her schedule and give her more time to continue with this case. Remember, Judge Strickland was in civil court when he was handed the Anthony case. There is nothing unusual about retaining cases.
Senior judges, for the most part, fill in when judges fall ill or a vacancy opens up. In the new judge’s case, it is neither. My questions are simple. What kind of message is George Zimmerman trying to send to the court? That he will never be happy no matter who sits on the bench? Or is he still gunning for one judge in particular? Either way, he’s out of options. Damn the torpedoes, Judge Nelson, full speed ahead. You are at the helm and George is downstream searching for a paddle.
Cross posted on Daily Kos
Dave Knechel | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Donald West, Eighteenth Circuit Court, George Zimmerman, Judge Debra S. Nelson, Judge O.H. Eaton, Judge Stan Strickland, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Orlando Sentinel, Slimm v. Zimm, Trayvon Martin, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (38)
Dave: This is a great post. I'm holding my breath, but it does appear that Judge Nelson will prove to be very apt at dodging defense torpedoes.
I noticed that in an update by the Sentinel, they state that through a tweet O'Mara has suggested that he may be ready for the immunity hearing in April or May.
I think the message that Zimmerman is sending is that he is looking for one particular judge. The more 'approaches' they try, the more obvious it becomes. imo
FYI: I noticed your new 'yellow' warning button. Those are fair rules, and your willingness to entertain suggestions and receive feedback in private is very honorable.
[Thank you, nan11, and I think she will do fine, too.
I was too busy writing this post to notice that O'Mara had tweeted anything new, so that's good to know.
I think it's kind of obvious, too, what Z is up to. But it's not going to work! He is out of paddles and, Lord willing and the creek don't rise, this is the judge who will see this case through. That's it. No more judges for G.
I'm glad you appreciate the new warning. EVERYONE is welcome to comment as long as they are civil and fair. It's important for people to let me know privately about something troubling before they spew off here. I need to be the one making decisions regarding issues that could possibly erupt into arguments. I just want everyone to get along. Wishful thinking, huh?]
For sure, Dave, the defense is trying to undermine Judge Nelson's control of the case. Gee, wouldn't it be nice if, say, O.H. Eaton, got his fingers in the pie? He's GZ's favorite judge!
From what little I've observed of Nelson, she is a tough cookie and perfectly capable of dealing with her own cases.
[Precisely, ritanita! Why else would GZ even bring up a senior judge? Hint. Hint. This is his doing, I'm sure. Who knows if there's a method to his madness. All sorts of ploys take place in a courtroom setting, just in case there's a conviction. Anything, including the kitchen sink, to trigger an appeal.
I've yet to see Judge Nelson in action, but it looks like I might on Friday. Thanks.]
Dave, you ask what kind of message Zimmerman is trying to send to the court. I suggest that his aim is to master the opinion of the masses in persuasion of seeing himself as being the one "victimized", strongly in opposition to Trayvon Martin being Zimmerman's sought out "victim". The constant presence of media bargaining and prevailing self interest kept in focus by his family and supporters as it has been will no doubt take on a higher level with distracting claims to continue to keep this focus of his being victimized from the onset of his contact with Trayvon right up to the trial date and in the trial proceedings. I can almost hear attorney Mark O'Mara making his point that his client, poor George, didn't actually "kill", that he is, in fact, the victim. That so much effort has been made to demonize poor George, who only sought to act as a concerned man of integrity in his effort to deter crime in the complex where already reported criminal activity, was escalating. O'Mara will attempt to to continue to lead all astray from remembering "TRAYVON WAS/IS THE VICTIM" of George Zimmerman. I also believe that O'Mara will use Zimmerman's "I killed someone" in a reverse role to say that if he had any intent to kill, he would never have admitted it, that he was devastated and shaken by what had actually occurred, having no opportunity to protect himself in such an unexpected appearance by one who beat him mercilessly, as O'Mara points his finger at Trayvon Martin, identifying him as George Zimmerman's highly aggressive "attacker"! "Oops!" O'Mara says "I forgot Trayvon Martin isn't here in court"!! No he is not!!
I hope Judge Nelson stays robed and in control of this case through and through. Good post by Marinade Dave!
[Hello, Miscellaneous Observer!
There is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman sees himself as the ultimate victim, and if anyone is seeking a pity party, he's the one. What's most interesting is that the only side making any noise is his side; his family, his friends, and his attorneys. Now, I do understand that motions must be filed, and a lot of us went down this road with the Anthony case. Unfortunately, just like her family, his won't keep their mouths shut, either. Back then, Baez admonished Casey's family and, today, it's the same thing with O'Mara.
As for O'Mara, he did make it clear that his client is the victim because he was, clearly, justified in killing Trayvon. I know that's his job as a defense attorney to demonize the boy and turn the tables around. He's also stated that Z is haunted by the killing and that's why he apologized to the family, but I don't believe it. Z told the dispatcher the boy was a teenager, yet he tells the boy's parents the "man" was close to his own age.
Attorneys are like politicians. As a matter of fact, when you think about it, both candidates running for the presidency have law degrees. Can you really believe either of them? O'Mara is duty bound to get his client off the hook. Would he stoop as low as many other criminal defense attorneys? And notice I didn't say ALL - I don't know - but I can think of one in particular that went to Hell for his client.
Trayvon will never be able to defend himself and Zimmerman & Company are very much aware of that. One of the things I wanted to explain in someone else's comment had to do with keeping this focused on the prosecution and the defense. What's very important here is that Trayvon was a minor child, no matter what some want to believe. In the eyes of the law, he was a child. That means his parents are the ones who represent his interests. In this case, it is his parents' attorneys. They have a legitimate stake in this case, and rightfully so. Because of them, and the state, Trayvon will always be represented in the courtroom. He won't technically be there, but he will.
I think Judge Nelson will keep her robe on. And she will be wearing it come June 10 of next year, when GZ faces her in the courtroom.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the post.]
There is a video at this link on today's brief hearing. Video contains a little footage from today's hearing, and clips of Mark O'Mara speaking afterwards.
WESH VIDEO | Amanda Ober Reporting | Zimmerman trial date set; depositions begin
[Thanks for the link, nan11. Apparently, O'Mara sang a slightly different tune about being ready to go once he left the courtroom. As long as the State turns over discovery, he can make due. I still think the motion filed by West was wrong. Asking for the State to comply is one thing; assuming the judge may have issues handling the caseload is another. While the intention may be all well and good, the timing was in poor taste in my opinion. She hadn't even been afforded the opportunity to warm up.]
Dave: I'm glad you mentioned that. It's almost as if they realized they may have not made a great first impression, and are trying to show a more co-operative spirit.
Friday should be interesting.
The following link is nothing new, it just confirms O'Mara tweet about the immunity hearing. It even has a link to the tweet.
Los Angeles Times Nation Now | By Michael Muskal | October 17, 2012 | George Zimmerman trial date set. But will it really happen?
[Well, the motion still stands, so I'm not sure what the defense is trying to do. I wonder if it has something to do with later on. By that, I mean, suppose Z is convicted and his appeal is partially based on something like this; that the court did an inferior job. The judge was overworked and couldn't perform to the best of her duties.
I really don't know, but I can't think of any other reason to file this type of motion before the defense even had a chance to formally meet the judge.
By the way, I just subscribed to the @GZlegalCase tweet.]
Ahhhh Georgie, be careful what you request. He's in a position where he can't remove yet another judge, but he doesn't like this one's record either. What to do? I KNOW.. let's get a retired judge watchdog. Oh good grief. I'm glad Nelson told them she will be more free after she's switched in January. It kinda sorta gives an "answer" the pleading for a retired judge. They won't need one if she's available for any squabbles - but, wait a minute.. Georgie doesn't want that. He wants his pick of judges to oversee the discovery. Give me a break.
This man is so set in his righteous feeling of having killed a juvenile for a justifiable (to him) reason that he actually to me seems to feel no guilt at all. And that kind of person is dangerous. If nothing is done now, it will happen again and again with him. Either he or his father have enough knowlege of the legal and judicial system to be frustrating at best and downright dangerous at worst IMO.
I agree. Friday's hearing should be interesting.
[Nope, Z cannot touch this judge. The game of musical judges is over.
The most incredible part to me was how cold he was immediately after the shooting. He simply shrugged it off accoding to neighbors. No emotion at all. No remorse. No sympathy. Nothing.
He's emotional now, but it only has to do with himself.]
Wow, Dave. Did you read this? This is apparently the task force that was put in place to review the SYG law in light of the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
Yikes! It sounds like they intend to broaden it.
Tampa Bay Online | Published: October 17, 2012 | Strengthen self-defense law, gun rights advocates tell panel
Quote:
Gun rights advocates Tuesday told a task force reviewing Florida's "stand your ground" law that the statute needs to be revised to take the burden off defendants trying to prove their use of force was justified.
The burden instead should be placed on prosecutors, and their offices should be required to pay the cost of a "stand your ground" hearing if defendants have charges dropped, said Eric Friday, lead counsel for the gun rights group Florida Carry Inc.
And:
Friday also argued that in some cases defendants should be able to invoke the law even if they are doing something unlawful, citing the example of someone who may be unlawfully selling Avon products out of her house without a proper business license.
[Oh, those silly gun lobbyists. That action, paying the defendant, came out of the 2nd Amendment conference I attended. There was serious discussion about being reimbursed if the charge is dropped. I understand that concept, but not the rest. At trial, the burden is on the prosecution. If the defense challenges the charge, they should show why it should be dropped - never the other way around.
Next thing, they'll argue that you can't get arrested for drunk driving if you were drinking Colt 45 Malt Liquor because it's the name of a gun.]
My head is spinning. This is a very interesting read, Dave. As I read it I kept wondering about the night of the shooting. Mr Zimmerman wants what he wants and does not think 5 minutes from now. He wants a certain Judge, keep trying never mind if he insults the one sitting on the bench. It is no wonder Trayvon ended up dead. He did not want "thugs" walking in his hood. If all else fails, gun them down.
Why does he feel so entitled? Mr Zimmerman is a mediocre student, had a okay job, slacked on paying bills and is a known liar. What makes this man think everything has to be his way? Am I missing something? I assume his Lawyers are doing as their client asked, surely they would not insult a Judge without being directed by their client to do so. Or am I the only one who thinks it is insulting to question whether a Judge can do the job before she ever looks into your eyes?
[I'm glad you found it interesting, Michelle.
I don't think GZ is searching for a new judge, per se, I think he wants one who would rule in his favor on certain issues. To be frank, I think he would have been better off with the first judge, but he didn't think so. I understand why, but what did he end up with? A tougher judge. OK, he put an end to that one, too, so with that last roll of the dice, he ended up with another tough judge. Not exactly working out his way, is it? But HEY! It doesn't hurt to ask, right? I think Nelson is thick-skined enough to let this motion slide without any personal feelings, but at the same time, I think it's obvious why he wants a senior judge because he wants someone who own'y play hardball as much.
Yes, it's insulting to ask a judge before setting foot in her courtroom. She'll let it slide, I'm sure, but she won't forget.]
Dave, thanks for this info. My opinions:
1. George Zimmerman is judge shopping.
2. Is it not general procedure that when a party does not comply with discovery requests, to petition the court to set a date certain for discovery responses? West's motion makes a mountain out of a molehill, IMO.
[Very nice to see you, Xena, and thank you.
I don't really think GZ is judge shopping these days because the mall closed when Nelson came on board. He cannot touch this judge. However, he can suggest that she needs help from someone more lenient, and that's pretty much what he did. Ain't gonna work in my book.
Yes, the proper procedure is to petition the court. How does that issue tie-in with requesting a second judge? In my opinion, it was a poor segue. One does not condition the other. If there are problems concerning State's evidence, bring it up with the judge. I wonder if West was trying to soften the insult by attaching the evidence problem to the motion?]
Dave thanks for this article. You're doing a great job,as you always do. I do have a question. Can Zimmerman really demand that MOM do certain things? I mean I'm having a hard time with Zimmerman's team insulting a respected judge. IMHO it reminds me of Bozo.Wouldn't MOM suggest to Zimmerman this motion isn't a smart move?
Michelle
You make an excellent point. Zimmerman IMHO is in the same league as Casey Anthony. Whatever they do and/or say is the way it should be. They are never lie and are never do anything wrong.
[Thank you, Tommy's Mom!
Good question. An attorney will strongly suggest legal moves and proffer excellent advice for his/her client, but the bottom line is this: The lawyer works for the client. If the client wants something done, the attorney may advise against it, but the client is under no obligation to agree. Look at the Hannity interview. I'm sure he was told not to do it, but it fell on deaf ears. O'Mara had to clean up the mess. The bottom line is like any other business. The customer is always right. Well, not really, but I think you know what I mean. O'Mara works for Zimmerman.]
The following jailhouse call contains several interesting exchanges between Georgie and his brother-in-law. In the exchange I have transcribed below, they are discussing which potential judge may take the case.
I realize that it is not proof of judge shopping or anything of the sort, and I submit it only as an interesting discussion.
Call 64 (At about 9:57 minutes in.)
BIL: Yeah. I know. Me, too. Do you have a time for this thing on Friday?
George: I think it is at 9:00 am.
BIL: Oh. Okay. So, is it going to be in front of Recksiedler, or whatever her name is?
George: Nnno. He requested her to recuse herself.
BIL:Yeah. I saw all that, but she hasn’t formally done that yet!
George: Right. She is supposed to do it today.
BIL: Oh, okay. And that other meeting that we were talking about. [Unintelligible] the retired one.
George: Yeah.
BIL: He is not even on the list of the three that I’ve gotten.
George: Oh, really?
BIL: That I have seen reported.
George: Hmm. That is odd.
BIL: Yeah. Really odd.
George: I don’t know. O’Mara seems to think it is him, or one other person.
BIL: Yeah. It’s got—I’ve got Lester, Nelson, or Delgado.
George: I think it is Lester.
BIL: Oh, okay. So it is not Eaton.
George: No. It is either Eaton or Lester. He thinks...
BIL: Oh, okay. Gotcha.
George: Yeah.
BIL: Gotcha. Okay.
George: Yeah. So, I don’t know. We’ll see.
BIL: Hmm?
George: We’ll see.
BIL: Yes. We will.
George: He seems really confident about it. So.
BIL: Well, that is good.
George: Yeah.
BIL: Yeah. It will be nice to be able to sit down and, you know, talk—without the encumberances that we have had. You know. About the case, and everything else. You know.
George: Yeah. I agree.
[To me, it is apparent that Z was aware of Eaton; that he knew something about him and his record. Did O'Mara fill him in? I don't know, but from what I got from the phone call I made yesterday, there's no way a senior judge would be called in on any case like this when there were able-bodied judges in the Seminole County circuit court. Generally, senior judges are fill-ins, like substitute teachers, although with lots more power and responsibilities. I don't even know why O'Mara would have suggested it. It could have been Z's idea and then he looked into it. I don't think the court ever pondered it.]
Another interesting portion of Call 64 occurred at this junction as listed below. imo
The JB referred to is possibly Baez from the Anthony trial.
IIRC, I read somewhere that O'Mara told Georgie that he wouldn't stay on the case if Georgie insisted on bring Baez in.
I still find it an interesting exchange. Possibly O'Mara can come up with a 'Baez' defense all on his own, without any help from the 'master.' jmo
Call 64 (At about 6:24 minutes in.)
George: Yeah. I liked that he isn’t—he didn’t BS me. At all. You know what I mean?
BIL: Yeah.
George: Like, JB told me that he would... You know, on the way down to turn myself in--he was saying, you know, don’t go. You know, I’ll get you the bondsman. And, you know—meet with the bondsman, and you can do a walk through. You won’t even have to spend the night in the jail. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
{Soft chuckling}
George: And I was, like, listen man—the only person that has been straight with me from day one, is the person that is telling me to go. You know, to turn myself in, in Jacksonville. And I’m not going to ruin that.
BIL: Yeah.
George: And he was like—he was like, no, man. He was like—don’t.. Don’t do it. You know, you can—I’ll get you this, that, and the other thing. Making wild promises. And I was just like—hey, I’m sorry. And I just hung up on him. And I was just like listen—I was like, I like you, you know. I don’t have anything against you. But, right now I just want to hear my wife’s voice before I go to jail. So.
BIL: Yeah.
George: I hung up on him. But my point is—O’Mara has, you know—since day one—he has always said, you know about the initial appearances; like I am not going to ask for it, because I don’t think they are going to give it to us. So, he is like, you know, I’ll save that. Whatever. And he hasn’t, you know, he has always—he has never over promised and under delivered.
BIL: I agree.
George: So, he’s [cross talking] me about this. And I believe him.
BIL: Yeah. And I, you know, I think that his not going for an immediate bond hearing was a smart move. It really sucks, you know, the way you have been; but, it calmed things down. Big time.
George: Yeah.
[I think JB is Baez, too. I know it was in the news, and it most likely came after the phone records were released, but it sounds like something Baez would do.]
Me again. I promise this is the last portion I will link. : - )
Georgie shares a touching moment with his BIL, and we could draw the conclusion that he was not close to his brother, Robert (Bobby), Jr.
However, it appears that Robert (Bobby), Jr. has become quite the voice for Georgie. Perhaps he is being noble and rising to his brother's need, or perhaps there is another reason in the background.
I don't know; just thought I would share.
Call 64 (At about 4:15 minutes.)
George: So. Hey, you know, before I forget—I really—I don’t mean to be all whatever; but, it’s; I’m really glad that; you know, the circumstances suck; but, I’m really glad that you and I have become closer. I didn’t realize that I have an older brother that is an older brother.
BIL: You do. And you always will.
George: Thank you.
BIL: No matter what.
George: I mean, I can’t even talk to Bobby, you know?
BIL: Yeah. I get it.
George: Good. {chuckles] It has really made me realize that you are the big brother that I have always wanted. So.
BIL: You share a lot of family things that I do.
George: Yeah.
BIL: So we are in very much the mode.
George: Yeah.
BIL: Yeah.
George: So. {sigh} The girls are doing well? From what I hear?
[If you have more to offer, nan11, by all means, please do. It's all relevant and appreciated.
It's pretty clear that Z wasn't close to his family, but then there's that old saying - blood is thicker than water. At the same time, I sometimes wonder if Junior isn't just trying to salvage the family name by promoting his brother, who he seems to know very little about, in actuality.]
Dave said: [It could have been Z's idea and then he looked into it. I don't think the court ever pondered it.]
I agree with everything you are saying. If you want to delete my comment, please do so with my blessings.
I find even the nerve of Zimmerman to 'ponder' it is jaw dropping. Maybe it is much more common than I realize.
[No... I'm not going to delete your comment, nan11!
Under most circumstances, I wouldn't consider a statement like that, but Z is different. In order to be a cop, you've got to be shrewd. Since Z wanted to be a cop, he thought of himself as shrewd and intelligent. I think that should go without saying. The big part of it was that he was studying criminal justice and that includes law. Since he fancies himself as some sort of superdude, I believe he is constantly trying to push his attorneys into doing things. It's in his nature. The big difference, though, is that he doesn't quite have a grasp on the judicial system. Not like he thinks he does, anyway.]
Since I seem to be on a roll here, I will add the following. Mr. NeJame gives a little plug for Judge Eaton.
I found it strange, too, that I could not find this particular video on his website. He has a page that lists all his videos, and this one does not appear to be there. It could be on YouTube, I didn't look there.
I settled for the transcript. It is dated April 17, 2012. I am sure it is probably just a coincidence.
CNN Transcripts April 17, 2012
Quote: (A good two thirds of the way down.)
And then there's a kind of long shoot, and that's Judge Jimmy -- Judge Eaton, that used to be the chief judge. Very scholarly, very well-respected jurist. And he is a senior retired judge that's -- he knows death cases. He knows murder cases as well as anybody probably in the state. And he's handled the tough cases before and is not afraid of controversy. He'll do the right thing legally. He doesn't look for what's popular. He looks at what's right and follows the law.
Edit to add:
Orlando Sentinel
Quote:
Eaton picked a jury, listened to the state’s evidence then threw out the case, citing a lack of evidence.
I suppose, in light of the above, no-one can blame Zimmy for hoping. Just, please God, don't make it happen.
J4T
[I like and admire Judge Eaton. I met him at the Anthony trial and he is quite a gem of a guy; very respectful and intelligent. He e-mailed me some of his writings, and he knows what he writes about. I think it's fine that Mark NeJame endorsed him, but I still feel that the only route available was to go thru the circuit first. Why spend all that money on a freelancer while depleting all senior judge days? In a case like this, the court would have to explain why it wants a retired judge in lieu of one in the circuit. witing in the wings.
Judge Eaton is great, but I still think it was an odd move on the defense. I also think they wanted him, or at least Z did, because of his record. Just like what you cited above.]
For tomorrow's hearing:
Notice of Hearing | Dated October 5, 2012 (O’Mara)
Quote and Snipped:
The undersigned will bring on to be heard the Motion for Order Issuing Subpoenas Duces Tecum; ‘In-Camera’ Review of Medical Records; and Motion to Request Review of Certain Discovery
State’s Response To Defendant’s Notice Of Production | Dated September 17, 2012
Reply To State’s Response To Defendant’s Notice Of Production | Dated October 5, 2012 (O’Mara)
Media Companies’ Motion To Intervene And Response To State’s Motion To Close Hearings And Seal Documents | Dated October 15, 2012 (Attorneys for The Media Companies)
Response To State’s Motion To Close Hearings And Seal Documents | Dated October 11, 2012 (Attorney for the Sentinel)
That still leaves these three defense motions/demand outstanding. I wonder if they will fit them in tomorrow?
I don't see a response from the state on them, though.
Motion To Compel Discovery | Dated October 12, 2012 (West)
Demand For Specific Discovery | Dated October 11, 2012 (O’Mara)
Motion To Schedule Standing Hearings To Address Discovery And Other Case Management Issues Or In The Alternative To Request Assignment Of A Senior Judge To Manage Discovery | Dated October 12, 2012 (West)
[The Demand For Specific Discovery is something I have an idea on and it's something I will write about. When I will, I guess, hinges on what will be discussed at the hearing tomorrow. I know that judges will try to fit other stuff in if there's time and both parties are amenable. We'll see, but I do plan on attending.]
I don't really know why they would be making Zimmerman appear for this hearing on the 12th of December, 2012. So far, it is only a 'docket sounding.'
WESH | October 18, 2012 | Zimmerman to appear in court
Quote:
A notice to appear was filed Thursday in the case against George Zimmerman.
Zimmerman must appear in front of the judge on Dec. 12 at 9 a.m. for a docket sounding.
*************************
This is a video from WESH. Richard Hornsby does a decent job at explaining the reason why the defense is seeking Trayvon's school records, etc.
I hope Mr. de la Rionda wins his motion to have them kept private, though.
WESH VIDEO | October 8, 2012 | Zimmerman attorneys want Martin’s online cellphone info
[The only reason why I woyld think Judge Nelson (JN) wants Z in the courtroom for the next docket is to let him know she is not going to be a more lenient judge to deal with. It's certainly something that's not manditory.
What Richard said is exactly what I've felt all along, as most of us probably had. It is a fishing expedition, but that's standard procedure in this kind of thing.]
This is an interesting video by LLMPapa. LLMPapa compares the similarities between statements made by George about a NEN call that he made on February 2, 2012; and the statements George gave to the police in subsequent interviews concerning the events of February 26, 2012.
Off topic to the video, but also interesting to note, is that in George’s handwritten statement, George used the NEN calls he made on August 3, and August 6, 2011 as his ‘excuse’ for finding Trayvon suspicious.
Only later in the evening and in the coming days did he change it to the NEN call he made on February 2, 2012.
The only reason I can think of is that an arrest was made regarding the August 3, 2011 incident.
YouTube VIDEO | The Script | Published on October 18, 2012 by LLMPapa
Below is the ‘Event Report’ of the original NEN calls. The difference, especially in the actual voice recording of the NEN call of February 2, 2012 is quite different than how he describes it in his police interview.
PAGES 39 & 40 | NEN's called on August 3, 2011 & August 6, 2011 | Zimmerman’s NEN Phone Call History
PAGE 45 | NEN called on February 2, 2012 |Zimmerman’s NEN Phone Call History
For the actual audio, you can listen here. (2nd link under map.) The audio for the August 3, & 6, 2011 calls are the first and second calls. The audio for the February 2, 2012 call is the last one.
[That is a very compelling video by LLMPapa. Practice makes perfect! I think that would be something the state could utilize, too.
I will have to listen to the audio later on. Ol' Davey Boy is getting tired...]
Quote: I hope Mr. de la Rionda wins his motion to have them kept private, though.
Sorry for quoting myself, but my time to 'revise' has run out; and, I wanted to add that I hope Trayvon's school records, etc., can be reviewed 'in camera' and kept private at least until they are sure that they have found something that can be used for Zimmerman's defense.
IF that even happens.
I understand in that case, and accept, that it will probably have to be released through discovery.
[Even O'Mara understands that a minor child's records are intended to be kept private, but will some make it into discovery if the judge grants the request? Remember, while I saw the autopsy photos of Caylee in the courtroom, the public did not. I understand records are different than photos, but my point is that not all discovery lands in the public's lap. A child's records are pretty much a private thing, but I do see why the defense wants to study them, including his fb pages and so forth.]
TPM Muckraker VIDEO
Quote: (At the beginning of video)
I’m not here today to try the case. We are not here today, either, to have a stand-your-ground or self-defense hearing. I welcome that, because quite frankly that would require the defendant to take the stand and explain. All that evidence that the court heard in terms of the defendant’s statements—that is not admissible, unless the state introduces it. He [ At this point Mr. de la Rionda points to Georgie] has got to testify. And he would be subject to cross-examination; which is the key part about self-defense—that is, the person that claims it, actually has to take the stand under oath, and be subject to cross-examination.
So, I respectfully disagree with Mr. O’Mara in terms of the weakness of the state’s case.
┌( ಠ‿ಠ)┘ Rock on Mr. de la Rionda!! Rock on tomorrow towards Justice for Trayvon Martin.
How about some Faith by George Michael.
[I disagree with O'Mara, too. Bernie sure is a feisty one. Can't wait 'til tomorrow, to see and hear him in action.]
Dave: Thank you for your many replies to my comments. : - )
I think the hearing is scheduled to last two hours, but it looks to me like they have enough to last a 40 hour work week.
I don't know how they are going to get through it all in two hours.
A fair amount of it may be 'in camera'. So, it might kind of boring for us in far away places, but I bet it won't be for those lucky enough to be in the courtroom!
Here is my last link for tonight. (I promise.) It is an interesting article from the Miami Herald. Even Facebook lawyers are weighing in on the issue of Trayvon's social media accounts.
Trayvon's parent's are expected to be at the hearing, too.
The Miami Herald | October 18, 2012 | Prosecutors want George Zimmerman’s lawyers mussled
Quote:
☛ “Unless defense counsel stops talking to the media about the case, in person or by use of defendant’s website, it will [be] more difficult to find jurors who have not been influenced by the media accounts of the case,” de la Rionda said. “...An impartial jury could never be seated.”
De la Rionda, who never speaks publicly about the case, filed the motion after a particularly active spell on the website O’Mara maintains to update the press and the public about the case.
☛ Media attorneys, who are scheduled to speak at Friday’s hearing to fight a different state motion, are expected to object to the gag request.
☛ Judge Nelson may rule Friday on whether to allow the social media and school record subpoenas to move forward.
☛ On Monday, Facebook lawyers sent a letter to O’Mara vowing to fight the subpoena. Trayvon’s social-media account, Facebook attorney √Furqan Mohammed said, is not only irrelevant to the case, but by law cannot be released. Mohammed said federal law protects the account information, and added that an argument over the issue would have to take place in a California court.
☛ Trayvon’s parents are expected in court Friday to urge prosecutors to push for release of Zimmerman’s medical records.
“The family thinks those records are far more relevant,” [Benjamin] Crump said.
One more thing: Regarding the gag order--since it cannot silence Zimmerman's brother, I would almost prefer that it not be put into effect. If no one else can say anything about the case but him, I think it would draw more attention to the propaganda he is putting out, should he become the only one who can 'speak'.
[I know that, if a gag order is placed, it sure will put the blogs on hold. It would force us to be redundant, redundant, redundant; with nothing new to discuss, but speculation.]
Mr. Crump made the (bbm) statement below about Zimmerman’s ‘psychological illnesses.’ Following is a good write-up from Reuters.
Even if it is not released to the public, as long as the prosecutors have it for the immunity hearing, (if they are allowed to present it there); or, especially, for the trial.
Reuters | October 18, 2012 | George Zimmerman’s medical records targeted on eve of hearing
Quote:
The family of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager killed by Florida neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, called on Thursday for access to Zimmerman’s confidential medical records if a judge approves a request for access to their son’s school transcripts and other private documents.
MEDICATIONS
"Knowing what psychological illnesses George Zimmerman had is crucial in understanding his mental state the night he shot and took the life of Trayvon Martin," Crump said.
Media Advisory
WHO: Sybrina Fulton, Tracy Martin, Benjamin Crump and Natalie Jackson
WHAT: Press Announcement From The Family Regarding New Developments
WHERE: Seminole County Courthouse, 301 North Park Avenue, Sanford, FL 32771
WHEN: Friday, October 19, 2012, 11:00 am
Quote:
This will be the first time they speak publicly about their decision to create the Change For Trayvon Committee of Continuous Existence and start participating in the political process to achieve change in the name of their son.
[Good morning, nan11... Darn, I'd like to go to the press conference, but as a diabetic, I've got personal things to take care of in order to attend the hearing. Oh well, I'll try.]
Dave: I know it is not as good as being there, but TruTV is announcing that they will cover it to some extent.
I wouldn't be surprised if WFTV or another local station show up. I'm ever hopeful!
O'Mara did file a 'Supplemental Notice of Hearing' which includes the following [bolded] motions.
I think that just leaves the "Demand for Specific Discovery". (I think that is a demand for discovery from the FBI--good luck with that, Mr. O'Mara.)
Take care!
Supplemental Notice of Hearing
Quote:
...will bring on to be heard the Motion to Compel Discovery and Motion to Schedule Standing Hearings to Address Discovery and Other Case Management Issues or in the alternative to Request Assignment of a Senior Judge to Manage Discovery before the Honorable Debra S. Nelson...
[Well, I'm not going to make it to the press conference, obviously.
I think the defense is correct in filing these motions. If Facebook, as one example, fights the subpoena and wins in court, the defense can cry foul! Their client cannot get a fair trial because they cannot see evidence that may help their cause. As for school records, I just don't know what will happen there, but I would like to think that if Trayvon had actually been violent in school, someone would have come forward by now. Because no one has, I doubt anyone will say much against him under oath if subpoenaed. Yes, it's fishing, but O'Mara's job is to defend his client. By hook or by crook.]
Good morning! I think if the court allowed Trayvon's records then she would almost have to allow Mr Zimmerman's records also. The Prosecutor claims Tayvon is the victim and Mr Zimmerman claims he is the victim. It will be interesting to see what happens.
As far as Mr O'Mara speaking in public is concerned he absolutely should have freedom of speech. With that said he should then realize that when he speaks of this case he places blame on Trayvon so imo when the people speak that are on Trayvon's side he should not be shocked that they are going to refute his claims. More than likely with the evidence they have. It is almost like he can say whatever but when other people speak it's as if Mr O'Mara then wants to wait til trial and let a jury decide.
Nan thanks for all the links. I am off to read and watch them now. Dave be careful today.
Good Morning!
I just watched the presser with Trayvon's parents. It was emotional. Sybrina said that she hoped everyone had not forgotten Trayvon. She was barely able to hold back her tears.
Mr. Crump spoke very well, imo. The media asked very pro-defense questions--again imo.
One thing Mr. Crump said was something that every woman all over the world understands. In a rape case it is not alright to splatter the woman's past in front of a jury--or elsewhere.
He used that example to help us understand the dangerous precedent which may be set, if the defense attorneys are able to use the victims personal history, which had nothing to do with the crime, to be used as a defense.
I don't know if I'm making any sense right now, Sybrina made me emotional, too.
I have not forgotten Trayvon Martin.
J4T
Dave said: If Facebook, as one example, fights the subpoena and wins in court, the defense can cry foul! Their client cannot get a fair trial because they cannot see evidence that may help their cause.
Me: If it is okay, I just want to mention something that Mr. Crump brought up when he was speaking at the earlier presser.
This is only my interpretation, I'll look for a link later; but I understood him to say that Trayvon's social media records cannot be verified as being in their original format at the time of Trayvon's death.
George Zimmerman's are different, as he is alive and well and can use his own voice to verify them.
I think this is a very important point. I'm somewhat shocked to learn that Facebook records, etc. can't be verified [back] to a certain date.
jmo
(I revised my comment to reflect a more accurate meaning of your quote. Sorry, that really wasn't intentional.)
WFTV - Live link for today's hearing
WKMG - (Click Orlando) - Live link
Do you think they are missing Judge Lester? : - )
The new judge most certainly cannot be accused of being one who panders to the cameras.
She seemed all efficient business. : - )
Considering the 'surprise' motion, these are the depos he took.
Notice of Taking Depositions on October 17, 2012
Notice of Taking Depositions on October 18, 2012
So, this was the ‘emergency’ motion that O’Mara said that once read we would wonder why the state had filed murder two charges?
Really, I’m trying to be nice. : ^ )
Emergency Motion For Protective Order/Prophylactic Sequestration Of Witnesses Prior To Defense Deposition
Quoted and Snipped:
3. Sergeant Santiago testified:
...quiet during most of these meetings, Serino never contested the consensus of the group that there was insufficient evidence to charge Mr. Zimmerman with any crime.
Its been a while Mr. Dave but as always your articles are fantastic. A recent CNN report shows that Defense attorney are trying to secure Mr. Martin's school records so that they can establish the "type of person" he was?
Not that this article was based on this new information, or old as it's been bouncing around, but what is the point of characterizing the dead when one has nothing to do with the other. As Zimmerman said, he just looked suspicious so what/how on earth are school records relevant. Are they saying because he acted up in school Zimmerman had the right to shoot him...in cold blood? I dont care if he stood on tables and pissed in children's soup that night in February was not at school he was walking "home".
[Hi, BMan - Yes, it has been a while. Great to see you. As you might know by now, the judge granted the defense request for Trayvon's school records. I'm going to write about the hearing tomorrow, and I will fully explain why, in my opinion, she granted the motion. There's more to it than just tearing into the boy's past and I plan on digging into what could happen later on, taking both sides into consideration.]
CF News 13 | October 19, 2012 | VIDEO: George Zimmerman Arrives At Seminole County Courthouse
YouTube VIDEO | Published on October 19, 2012 by stateoftheinternet | Mark O’Mara Press Conference
CF News 13 | October 19, 2012 | VIDEO: Trayvon Martin’s Mother: I Hope You Have Not Forgotten About My Son
WESH VIDEO | October 29, 2012 | Defense can subpoena Trayvon Martin’s school records, Facebook records
WESH | October 19, 2012 | Judge: Defense can subpoena Trayvon Martin’s school records, Facebook records
Sub-Title: Defense files motion to sequester state witness
Quote:
After the hearing, O’Mara said actually getting the social media records will be difficult.
“They’re multi-billion dollar companies. I’m not prepared at all to take on Facebook and Twitter,” he [Mark O'Mara] said.
GlobalGrind | October 19, 2012 | Stop The Profiling! Benjamin Crump Responds To Zimmerman Hearing (DETAILS)
Quote:
Mr. Benjamin Crump:
☛Trayvon Martin died because George Zimmerman profiled him as a criminally minded young punk under the guise of protecting his neighborhood. And now, Trayvon Martin is being profiled again posthumously as an MMA-loving violent thug under the guise of pursuing justice. This has to stop. Profiling, like racism and sexism, has no place in the criminal justice system. Neither one of these assertions are true.”
Nan said: So, this was the ‘emergency’ motion that O’Mara said that once read we would wonder why the state had filed murder two charges?
Really, I’m trying to be nice. : ^ )
The only thing that came to mind after I read that motion is- of course the Sandford P.D. is still defending their position. They did a poor investigation,imo. Drug tested Trayvon but not the shooter. Tainted witness by telling them the screams belonged to Mr Zimmerman. Rarely called Mr Zimmerman out on his many different versions.
Dave: If O'Mara is "not prepared at all to take on Facebook and Twitter," I can't help wondering why he would have filed a motion requesting the court grant him permission to do so?
The only reason I can think of is so that he could have the media discuss the suggestions of what the records could 'possibly' contain. In court today, he said he had some records of what those social media pages contained--I wonder how he happend to obtain such.? (I don't know if he actually said screen-shots, I will have to check his wording.)
I thought Mr. Crump explained it well. imnsho
[Google takes snapshots of all web pages, so there are records available thru that. I believe there are other services that do the same thing. While the Florida court granted the defense motion, Facebook will argue that it's got to be filed in a California court. At that time, once the defense exhausts all avenues, Nelson will address it and probably use her powers as a judge to overrule Facebook. Well, maybe. Facebook is mighty powerful and could take it to a higher court. I don't know where it would go from there, but remember, public pages remain public. It's private pages that becomes the issue with Facebook, I believe.
I did put some pictures up from after the hearing.]
Michelle: Yes. Seriously, that was his latest spin. He is suggesting that there was public (maybe even political) pressure to bring charges against Georgie. imo
I keep going over in my head the early events of the case, when Wolfinger and Lee stepped down.
When there were rumours--unexplainable--that they were possibly at the scene of the crime on February 26, 2012.
I'm not sure, but I wonder if this might backfire one him. Or, it may be just another bunch of empty words that he lets drop come Monday. moo
There was a lot of pressure to put charges on Zimmerman, I mean have you followed the case and the months it took of pressure to get charges? Hey, if I am on top o someone beating the crap out of someone with my fists, does that mean I am unarmed?
Hi, Britt - I would consider arms "arms" but at the same time, his opponent was also "armed" with arms. Let's not forget George was a professional bouncer. Where I do have serious questions deals with taking George's word as if it's Gospel. George has a propensity to lie, which he's shown time and time again in his versions of events. That leads me to one question for you. Why would you believe him without any doubt whatsoever? Even George admitted he had complete control of Trayvon's wrists before shooting him. Or was that a lie, too? If it's true, I guess Trayvon couldn't have been beating the crap out of him at that time.