A Facebook Face-Off?
Sunday, October 21, 2012 at 11:53AM I don’t think there’s a person in the world that doesn’t know a big election has been brewing in the United States. Perhaps there’s a handful who don’t know, but that’s not my point. What we have is a voting population that’s very split on the two presidential candidates, Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Republicans and Democrats alike are extremely adamant about their man to a fault. Obama has the right ideas! No, Romney is best! It’s a real lesson in American civics; a true look into the theoretical and practical aspects of our citizenship. Each side is right, of course, and their constituents are convinced of it. The other side is dead wrong. That’s the problem with people. We tend to only see virtue in our candidate and vice in the other.
If we look into the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin tragedy, it seems as if civilized society is divided the same way, like the parting of the Red Sea, and depending on which side of the fence we’re on, our guy was the victim. The other guy started it. As in politics, it’s a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world; only this one reeks of racism, gun rights and a sense of morality that’s unique to each of us. And as sure as the upcoming election, the truth is not somewhere in the middle. Someone is going to prevail; someone is going to be right, whether it’s the truth or not.
§
I arrived at the courthouse about a half-hour or so early on Friday. As I approached the entrance, an SUV with tinted windows was parked nearby and the media were standing close enough (with microphones and cameras in hand) in hopes that George Zimmerman would emerge. I glanced but continued to walk. Once inside, I passed through security and began the standard ritual of putting my belt back on and putting all my stuff back in the correct pockets. That’s when I looked up and, there, within inches, was George. As he walked by me, we looked into each other’s eyes, but it was for a mere second. As he continued to head toward the elevators, I turned and followed him with my eyes. My, my, I thought, George put on quite a few pounds.
Less than a minute later, I was ready to go up to the fifth floor courtroom. A local TV journalist accompanied me on the ride up. She asked if I had seen him. Yes, I responded, he just walked by me. She said he looked like he gained a hundred pounds! I figured he must be pretty lethargic these days, I told her; not being able to go anywhere for the most part. That, and all the pizza and Chinese takeout he probably eats. We both chuckled briefly, but then the door opened and we were ready for business.
Before you go into the courtroom, you must pass through another security check. Unlike the last hearing, this time we didn’t have to remove our belts and shoes — just what was inside our pockets. Moments later, I entered the double doors and took a seat near the back.
When court came to order, Judge Nelson got right down to business. I don’t want to give you a blow-by-blow account of what transpired during the next hour-and-a-half. After all, most of you watched it on TV, saw it on the news or, marginally, read about it on a Website. Right now, I’m more interested in the ramifications of some of the judge’s decisions. I will say that, from what I and most of you observed, Judge Nelson will be a perfect fit for this case. She’s quite adept and strict enough to keep both sides in check. No nonsense, in other words, but she’s not without a sense of humor, either, which is great for calming nerves and abating tense moments from legal disagreements.
I didn’t get the sense that any of the attorneys were all that familiar with her style. Certainly, with Bernie de la Rionda, I could understand, but Mark O’Mara and Donald West didn’t seem to feel right at home, either. One thing is clear, she will not allow her courtroom to veer off course one bit. When O’Mara and de la Rionda started to whine and snap at each other like yappy little dogs, she told them to heel, and heel they did. She wasn’t gentle, nor was she harsh. She just made it clear enough to let them know what she expects from them. It was exactly what I anticipated at the heat of the moment. She recognized how it could have easily gotten out of control and made an “adjustment.” West, on the other hand… he’s a pitbull, and even when the judge admonished him, he kept going. This guy has a chip on his shoulder and he makes O’Mara look like a saint, with de la Rionda somewhere in between. I am sure George would freak if West were working for the other side. Big Boi Don West.
§
With no fanfare or special order, here’s the way I saw the judge’s orders. She granted the State’s request for George’s medical records, but limited how much the prosecution would get. How much? O’Mara was willing to give them 30 days before the incident and 30 days after. However, he handed the court all documentation that was available to him. Judge Nelson said she would look at the logs and dates and decide what is appropriate based on privilege. Personally, I think the State should get everything, but it’s just my opinion.
I’m not going to bother with the phone call recording that Benjamin Crump turned over to the FBI. After a discussion, that one will be resolved, and most of the nitpicking issues over evidence will be cleared up, too, so I’m not going to write about them unless they become problematic down the road.
What was interesting was the motion filed by West asking for regularly scheduled hearings. In that motion, he also asked for a second judge; a senior judge to oversee docket soundings, but Judge Nelson never entertained the thought. I think, by that time, West knew better than to address it. She had pretty much made it clear at the docket hearing earlier in the week, which she reiterated, that her schedule would remain wide open for them, including weekends and holidays. She will do whatever it takes to move this case forward.
This leads me to the meat of the hearing — Citing prior case law, the judge granted the defense motion seeking Trayvon’s Facebook and Twitter records. Since Zimmerman is mounting a self-defense claim, he has a right to see evidence that may support any aggressive and/or violent behavior by Trayvon. It will be tough, though, because they’ve got to go through Facebook and Twitter to get those records. Not an easy task.
Here’s where some of you may not agree with me. I think the defense has a right to see it and I will explain why. Just like in this heated election, we have a propensity to take sides. Not only do we take sides, we fervently believe our man is right and the other guy has got to lose. That’s all there is to it. Only it doesn’t work that way in a court of law. No matter how you feel, the way our system works, George is innocent until proven guilty. The law favors him, not Trayvon. Sad, but true. Florida law states:
90.404 Character evidence; when admissible.
(1) CHARACTER EVIDENCE GENERALLY.—Evidence of a person’s character or a trait of character is inadmissible to prove action in conformity with it on a particular occasion, except:
(a) Character of accused.—Evidence of a pertinent trait of character offered by an accused, or by the prosecution to rebut the trait.
(b) Character of victim.—
1. Except as provided in s. 794.022, evidence of a pertinent trait of character of the victim of the crime offered by an accused, or by the prosecution to rebut the trait; or
2. Evidence of a character trait of peacefulness of the victim offered by the prosecution in a homicide case to rebut evidence that the victim was the aggressor.
(c) Character of witness.—Evidence of the character of a witness, as provided in ss. 90.608-90.610.
O’Mara cited Dwyer v. State, 743 So. 2d 46, 48 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 5th Dist. 1999):
Generally, evidence of a victim’s character is inadmissible, but a defendant who alleges self-defense can show, through the testimony of another witness, that the alleged victim had a propensity for violence, thereby inferring that the alleged victim was the aggressor. Smith v. State, 606 So. 2d 641 (Fla. 1st DCA 1992); see also Ehrhardt, Florida Evidence § 404.6 (1999 ed.); Graham, Handbook of Florida Evidence § 404.1 (1987).
A defendant’s prior knowledge of the victim’s reputation for violence is irrelevant, because the evidence is offered to show the conduct of the victim, rather than the defendant’s state of mind. Ehrhardt. Accordingly, evidence of one of the victim’s reputation for violence was not prohibited by Dwyer’s lack of prior knowledge of that victim’s character traits.
Here’s where I am rather confident, though. Let the defense have at it. When I was 15-years-old, I called out a kid in school. He never showed. There was no fight and nothing was reported. Suppose we did fight. Would that be enough to render me a violent youth? A “gangsta” in today’s world? Would Mr. O’Mara use that against me? You bet he would. But the point is, I never got close to a fight again in my life, and that kid I called out has been my best friend ever since. You’d better believe that Mr. de la Rionda would be quick to point that out, too.
O’Mara said that videos exist showing Martin’s involvement in MMA (mixed martial arts) fighting. I say, let him find them. Trayvon’s parents will counter that their son never took MMA lessons. O’Mara will tell the court that Trayvon boasted of beating up other kids. I will tell you right now that male children and young adults readily tell their peers how tough they are, but does that make it true? They will boast about their manhood and brag about prouesses sexuelles, outstanding abilities in bed and incredible lasting power, not to mention a long list of nameless conquests — nameless because they don’t exist. I know, because I heard them all growing up. So did O’Mara, and if he plans to use this sort of thing to trash Trayvon, it would be a real disgrace. It’s braggadocio, and everyone does it. Besides, it doesn’t prove a thing.
O’Mara was also granted power to subpoena the Facebook and Twitter accounts of Trayvon’s girlfriend because he’s convinced her online posts will contest the story she gave police about being so devastated by his death that she couldn’t attend his funeral. Like she got over him in record time. Judge Nelson told de la Rionda that he can contest this part of the ruling in writing if he wishes.
Let me tell you, I have a friend with a 15-year-old daughter and she flits around hourly. Friends come and go on a mere whim. Adults forget the mind of a teenager, when hormones rage. Besides, people mourn in their own way. Put the girl’s mother on the stand and see what she’s got to say. While O’Mara shreds the children, why not look at what the Zimmermans told each other about being rich and famous while he sat in jail. “It’s gonna be a great life!”
Did Trayvon’s death bring her a great life?
I will say this. If Trayvon was such a tough and violent gangsta, how come no one has come forward? So far, I haven’t heard a peep out of anyone he went to school with. I think the defense is going down a dangerous and slippery slope; one that could backfire if handled improperly. You’d better be able to prove what you say, Mr. O’Mara, or your name will be sliding down an ugly and vicious path.
One final thought… I wouldn’t put it past ANY defense attorney to make their client look sickly and weak in court, hoping that the judge takes pity. Just look at the poor, poor boy and what he’s been through. Instead, I hope the judge keeps Trayvon’s memory alive. He’ll never have an opportunity to get fat, and by the time O’Mara gets into his character assassination mode, Trayvon is going to be transformed right before your eyes and ears — from a momma’s boy into a horrible monster. Just remember, monsters aren’t real. George is.
Cross posted on the Daily Kos
Dave Knechel | tagged Barack Obama, Democrats, Mitt Romney, Republicans | in Benjamin Crump, Bernie De la Rionda, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Judge Debra S. Nelson, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Slimm v. Zimm, Sybrina Fulton, Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (120)
Dave, thanks for this wonderful post.
I think that no one expects the defense team to obtain information from Facebook, and probably not from Twitter; an attorney for the former had already stated - and this was before the hearing - that Facebook would not hand over account information. This would not only apply for Trayvon's account/s, but to DeeDee's as well.
I agree with you that O'Mara should be permitted a rather wide scope of discovery in order to provide a fair and competent defense. The issue is admissibility, and unless O'Mara comes up with a lot of evidence that Trayvon was aggressive and repeatedly involved in violent behavior, any information he receives will die in Judge Nelson's chambers. Of course, such evidence would have to be substantial to overcome State's evidence regarding Zimmerman's past - and I seriously doubt the defense wants to go there.
I was quite pleased with Judge Nelson; I only hope she continues to block O'Mara's dramatics and West's pugnaciousness. As far as I'm concerned, the defense has been and will continue to be intent on trying this case in the public sphere, attempting in advance to plant the seeds (amid the wider public; we all know about Zimmerman support sites) of Trayvon as an aggressive thug, and that the prosecution charged Zimmerman for racial/political reasons, not because the charge was warranted (hence O'Mara's "emergency" motion to sequester witnesses, and the whole thing regarding Officer Santiago).
I know that defense attorneys have to use every possible means to clear their client. Yet, both heart and mind have concluded that O'Mara and West are offering a sleazy defense - if only because they have so little else to work with.
[I absolutely agree with you, nemerinys, when it comes to admissibility. I was speaking with a friend the other day and he said he got into a scrap when he was 7-years-old. Since then, he's had no incidents at all. He's in his 50s now. Suppose he ran into Z that night. Would O'Mara try to use his fight against him to show violent tendencies? He'd be laughed out of the courtroom. This is a fine line he will have to walk because it could impugn his reputation as an attorney if he lets it go too far. However, if he digs up a significant amount, he's bound to use it. There's also the issue, as you pointed out, that he would open the door for the state to attack his client.
I think it's obvious that this judge will tone down the action in the courtroom. I noticed that de la Rionda was not as aggressive. West will learn soon enough, but he's a horse of a different color. No one pushes him around. HA! HA! As for O'Mara, he's not as argumentative as he is shrewd and sarcastic. She seems to see it all. I don't think she'll care about his gestures, but she will muffle him when he says the state has no case. Just look at my poor, poor client and what he's had to go through. Nope, she ain't buying it.
If attorneys were used car salesmen, de la Rionda would be selling Cadillacs, West would peddle Hummers and O'Mara would be a Lexus kind of guy. But I don't think Nelson is looking for a used car.]
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the post.]
Excellent post Dave,thank you.
I also believe that Zimmerman should get a fair trial,but I also think the defense is most definitely trying to influence the public. Bozo and the A's did the same thing and we all know how that worked out. JMHO but the defense looks more like Bozo's every day.
nemerinys great comments ITA
[Thank you, Tommy's Mom.
Yes, Zimmerman should get a very fair trial. Unfortunately, until the court puts a stop to the publicity, if at all, O'Mara is free to blab all he wants. If we look at it from the other side, not even a ton of evidence against Casey was enough to convict her. The jurors will be made up of people that pay no attention to this case like we do. Believe it or not, there are those out there that have no idea of what's going on. Some people just don't care.]
Great post Mr. K...Those lase two sentences sum it up for me...
[Thank you very much, Estee. I guess I'd better not change those last two sentences, then. Not that I was planning on doing anything like that.]
Excellent post, Dave! Thanks so much.
Before the hearing I had resigned myself to the fact that the judge was probably going to allow O’Mara to dig for his imaginary dirt.
I thought Frances Robles said it well in this two page article: Quote: ”The decision was a disappointment for the slain teenager’s family, who believe digging into a homicide victim’s past is tantamount to blaming a rape victim for wearing too short a skirt.”
Alas, some things never change. : - (
Regarding the remaining ‘fight’ video, again, it has not been authenticated. After watching the 7-11 video, I don’t even think the kid looks like Trayvon. If it is him, he was quite a bit younger. That, I suppose, is irrelevant.
Concerning the allegation of jewelry being found in a back pack—I think the ‘source’ that purportedly works for the school board that whispered that should come forward. Perhaps he/she would lose his/her job; and perhaps he/she would deserve to; and perhaps we would learn that there is no truth to the nasty rumor at all.
With reference to DeeDee, it has also been reported in the media that she only went to the hospital the day following Trayvon’s wake. Quote: The day after Trayvon’s wake, his girlfriend, who is a minor, {snipped} was emotionally distraught upon learning she was the last person who talked to him. {Snipped} She had a battery of tests, including an EKG, and was there for over 12 hours. {Snipped}
I know that the Treepers indicated not all that long ago that at some point they had ‘identified’ the wrong DeeDee. I wonder if it is possible that those tweets that O’Mara spoke of in court on Friday belonged to someone else.
O’Mara’s managing to bring most of the above up in a court of law somehow seems to give such possible slander an improper respect. The truth of what he was pandering—is that it is nothing but an underhanded and shameless attempt at influencing the jury pool, imo.
The same goes for his ‘surprise’ motion—released to the public for discussion all weekend long. Before the state even had a chance to respond!
So far, the defense maneuvers may not be as vulgar as what we have seen from another attorney not so long ago, but they are just as cheap. MOO
[Thank you, nan11... I had to tweak it a few times, but I think it's OK now.
There's no doubt in my mind that Z initiated it, but the sysyem is set up to help the defendant. I guess it's because it's wrong to convict even one innocent man.
Suppose that video is of Trayvon? What does it prove? It doesn't make him a fighter. Who knows who provoked that one? I'm going to take it another step. Suppose Trayvon punched Z first. How did his body end up so far away from where Z said he cold-cocked him? Also, to me, that video looked like teo kids fighting. Is that supposed to be MMA? Because, if it is, there's not much to it.
I don't think the jewelry story will be admissable. No charges were filed. Was there a police report? If not, what is there?
I'm not really all that familiar with the wrong DeeDee over there at the Treehouse, so I can't make a conjecture on it.
I was going to include the part about the "big" surprise motion, but since it won't be argued until Friday, I figured I'd wait. They sure had me going for awhile, too, until I read it. Whoop-di-do. Yeah... let's wait and see how dirty this defense gets. It WILL get filthy, I'm sure.]
Dave, In your last "pictures posting" I already made comment of my view on observing Judge Nelson and the attorneys in this case and it is a pleasant feeling to find that you Dave have written similar descriptive words. I felt a little bad on having a negative word on Don West, but he gave me the impression that he stepped up with an attitude of dominance which was firmly and graciously restrained by Judge Nelson.
The attack on Trayvon's girlfriend Dee Dee, is an embarrassment to the memory of Trayvon. We need to put ourselves in her mind and heart at that time. I know I would have frozen for quite a long time, and what I would have been pressured to explain would most likely be very hazy. Why would I want to go see what I heard happening, to SEE a boyfriend DEAD! Once I encouraged (pushed) a young niece to see her dying aunt out of "respect" She did not want that memory, I was wrong! My niece never got over it, my regret still eats me. "Get over it" is such a familiar but very hurtful use of words. Sometimes we put aside, but never quite "get over" some things that come into our lives. For example, we can trust in another persons word then realize our trust has no value to that other person, as they often easily smirk, "get over it"! We can not be the ones who say how this has really affected Dee Dee or that ever she will just "Get over it" because someone says she should step up or we will comb through all your faults, those of both Trayvon's and Dee Dee's with defense attitude that Mr. Zimmerman's life is in jeopardy of going to prison. Who's young life ended as Mr. Zimmerman sought to continue to stalk and approach a 17 year old? I wish the defense would leave Dee Dee alone, they can't. Yet, how do her words under stress compare to those of George Zimmerman's, "not remembering"?
Dave, it is good that you bring forth the slang vocabulary used by different generations youth in how they communicate with each other. So far I have noticed only you have acknowledged this and it's importance regarding the defense approach to Trayvon having spoken words they wish to use against his character.
[I was quite surprised by West's cocky attitude because he had been quite reserved while facing Judge Lester. Does that mean anything? I don't know, but it was interesting that she had to set the rules at all.
Unfortunately for DeeDee and all of Trayvon's friends, they will be put on notice by this defense. They will be subject to a vast battery of questions, some embarrassing, but I think a guy like O'Mara will do his best to set them at ease. OK, fine, but then comes the tough questions. I really can't say this with any authority, but if Trayvon had been this fierce MMA warrior, some of his combatants would have come forward by now. After all, the boy had "deadly weapons" in those fists, right? I just don't think they're out there, but the defense does have that legal right to fish.
I remember my grandparents insisting that I go to my sunday school teacher's viewing. I was 12-years-old. It didn't traumatize me in the least, but once again, everyone is different and, while it didn't bother me, I still question why I was forced to go. I don't remember her much as my SS teacher, I just remember her dead.
I think it's important to stress the difference in today's lingo compared to the way people of a certain age were brought up. I'm telling you, had I approached Trayvon and said "Right on!" and "Far out!" the kid would have looked at me like I was nuts or something. That's something the defense, prosecution and judge must keep in mind. Heck, texting is a whole new language!
Thanks, MO. I appreciate your thoughts.]
Does anyone other than me think Zimmerman looks like he is asleep in that picture? Shows absolutely no concern at all.
nan11 & MO ITA with both of you.
[From where I sat, I couldn't see Zimmerman's face, but it sure does look like he dozed off. If so, it could be from many different factors. I don't really want to speculate much about it, but I will agree it didn't help him at all.]
PS, was there a joke in your comment yesterday about falling asleep while writing. Now that this picture of George is up, I wonder if you were pulling our leg with that, to see if we would connect the two of you "sleeping".
[Actually, MO, I did fall asleep. I never put two and two together, but I can see where you may think so. I seem to be able to fall asleep easily these days. Coincidentally, it looks like someone else can, too.]
You have got to be the biggest narcisst on the planet, I love how every point you try to make you use a personal experience, because I am sure your friends daughter is probably the very dame as Trayvons girlfriend, so that makes you an expert. My favorite part is how you admit you found time to be a catty little bitchy gossip queen going into the court making remarks about someone you dont likes weight. Really manly. I bet you also saw a cold heart when you held his gaze for a second and you felt the fear Trayvon did. And of course the one guy you ever had the balls to fight became your BFF, of course!!!
[Hello again, Britt -
Let's see what a narcissist is... Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.
Hmm... Those who know me and are familiar with my writing will tell you I am far from being narcissistic. Am I vain? We all have egos, but I consider myself humble with a dash of vanity. Nothing unusual there. I am, most certainly, not preoccupied with anything and I never consider my personal adequacy; pro or con. I have self-confidence. Obviously, I'm a middle class kind of guy, so prestige is not an issue, although I do prefer quality in everything I do.
What is life but a series of experiences? Everything we do as adults is somehow related to our past. We anticipate the future based on experiences; some good, some bad. If I know not to put my hand on a hot stove, I base that decision on my own experience or the experiences of others. Does that make me a narcissist? Also, I've been around teenagers. I've experienced them. I don't know anything about you, but I would guess you have no idea about what goes on in their minds. This, in no manner, is intended to denigrate them in any way, it is just the nature of the beast. I am not alone here when it comes to teenagers. It's not a statement regarding one's character. There's a reason why the voting age is 18. Or is that my fault, too? Only to people who have a negative opinion of me coming in. That is you.
As for Zimmerman's weight, I never made it an issue. I reported on what I observed. Hey! I'm no Atlas, either, so who am I to talk? He put on a lot of weight. All of the media outlets reported it. You're saying I can't? So what he gained weight? With all of the health problems I have, I'm the last person who would make fun of him. Weight is a problem all over the country. He's human like the rest of us. I kidded with the journalist, but it was AFTER SHE, brought it up. To be honest, when Zimmerman's and my eyes connected, I saw nothing but another person. Had our paths crossed on the street, it would have been like seeing anyone else. Unimportant. His eyes were not cold and steely, in other words, and I never inferred otherwise. You are reading into things that just aren't there, bab.
As for my testicles, I would prefer that you leave them out of the conversation. They have nothing to do with anything. And about my best friend? At least I was open enough to change my mind about him. Yes, I am open-minded. Can you say the same thing about yourself?
Thank you for your comment. Please feel free to speak your mind whenever you feel like it. The door is open, but positive interaction sure trumps negative. There are nice ways to disagree. Read the disclaimer at the bottom of each post.]
Tommy's Mom: I agree that Zimmerman looks like he was sleeping. During the trial, it seemed like he could hardly stay awake, imo.
I have a suspicion that this was caused more from being heavily medicated, than anything else.
I think the huge weight gain also suggests some serious prescription drugs. jmo
Britt: I enjoyed reading Dave’s post very much and I admire his writing style. That is my opinion, and I hope I make my point with those words. : - )
I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Dave’s remarks on Zimmerman’s weight were very kind. Have you had a chance to check out some of the comments made elsewhere? Just sayin’
The ‘cold heart’ comment is all your own. Dave never implied that anywhere, imo.
And, sometimes, if you don’t fire a 9mm hollow point bullet through someone’s heart, you could possibly becomes friends. Sometimes it works out that way in life.
It has been my experience, too.
[Weird. You're right, I never said anything about a cold heart.]
Like I said, really manly- just had to get in a dig at some weight, someone who suffers from diabetes and has the audacity to throw in such catty stuff- really riveting.
[Then you should be reading and watching NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX, not to mention CNN, HLN and MSNBC. They all reported on his weight. So did AP, the Orlando Sentinel and every other news source that wrote about it.
By singling me out, you are showing nothing but prejudice and intolerance. And you think I'm unfair???]
Mo, ITA with you about DeeDee. Everyone reacts differently to tragedy and grief. But as a teenager losing not only someone she thought of as a "working on it" boyfriend, but also someone she has known since she was in grade school is going to do an awful number on her mentally. Regardless of how she acted on her facebook page, she was probably and is probably a mess mentally and emotionally. To subpoena her Facebook is ridiculous and invasive in my opinion. I don't know about anyone else, but my true personna isn't on my Facebook. Only the image I want to project to others. Same goes for both DeeDee and Trayvon. .A little kid taking Karate or MMA are going to naturally have pictures of themselves and their achievements on their pages, and would probably use what they learned if they were ever attacked. Doesn't prove he has a tendance to violence, only that he's learning to protect himself.
George's weight remarks. They bother me because I'm a very heavy person also. Lack of exercise and the ability to leave the house probably has a lot to do with it, as does medication changes. The weight gain just might go against him, though, in the case in chief because the jury is going to look at him and his size and say "he's a lot bigger than TM was". That's not going to go well for him . They're going to think he could have gotten control of the situation and did because of his size. When Zimmerman got control he went for his gun instead of leaving as he should have. He knew the cops were on their way, he could have gotten into his truck and waited, or just retreated around the corner and watched to see what house TM entered and accused him of assault - instead he got angry that he was hit to begin with and shot the kid.
Good to hear Judge Nelson is a no nonsense type of judge.
[Weight is an issue all over the world, and I am not going to mock Zimmerman for it. It is newsworthy because it could mean there's an underlying problem, but if you look at pictures of him from the past, you'll see he's had weight issues for years. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with his character and there are numerous reasons why; too numerous to second-guess. Ted Bundy was thin and in-shape. What does that tell us? Absolutely nothing.
I don't mind if people want to question what caused the weight gain, i.e., medications, depression, lifestyle changes, but I won't tolerate mocking him for it. And it's not that big an issue. I wish I could drop 25 pounds, but it's not easy. Does that make me weak-minded? Of course not. It's a heckuva lot easier to put it on than it is to take it off.]
nan11 well done!
Just bringing this over from an older thread. It takes a few seconds to load up, but worth the effort, imo.
CF News 13 | October 19, 2012 | VIDEO: George Zimmerman Arrives At Seminole County Courthouse
A new video from LLMPapa. ┌( ಠ‿ಠ)
YouTube VIDEO | Published on October 21, 2012 by LLMPapa | An Attorney’s Tightwire
A good read:
October 20, 2012 | by Make Each Day Count | The Truth Does Have An Agenda | October 19, 2012 Hearing- Pathetic Porky George, Posthumous Victimization, and a Prophylactic Sequestration Protection Order~~~~~~ Oh MY!
Britt, Dave is considered and respected as a writer by people who know a great deal about it, more than you or I. Give us an example of how you would have written it to be personally satisfying and representative of what happened that day at the hearing. I'll leave a little space right below for it. Thank you!
________________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
MO well done ;-)
I think you may have left to many lines.
I needed a good chuckle!
Time for a little smile
HAPPINESS
To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little.
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.
______________________________
[Very sage advice, Tommy's Mom. Thank you.]
OK if you didn't smile at that one let's try this one.
A bit of obscure History!!!!
The four Goldberg brothers, Lowell, Norman, Hiram, and Max, invented and
developed the first automobile air-conditioner. On July 17, 1946. The
temperature in Detroit was 97 degrees.
The four brothers walked into old man Henry Ford's office and sweet-talked
his secretary into telling him that four gentlemen were there with the
most exciting innovation in the auto industry since the electric starter.
Henry was curious and invited them into his office. They refused and
instead asked that he come out to the parking lot to their car.
They persuaded him to get into the car, which was about 130 degrees,
turned on the air conditioner, and cooled the car off immediately.
The old man got very excited and invited them back to the office, where he
offered them $3 million for the patent.
The brothers refused, saying they would settle for $2 million, but they
wanted the recognition by having a label, "The Goldberg Air-Conditioner",
on the dashboard of each car in which it was installed.
Now old man Ford was more than just a little anti-Semitic, and there was
no way he was going to put the Goldberg's name on two million Fords.
They haggled back and forth for about two hours and finally agreed on $4
million and that just their first names would be shown.
Wait for it!
And so to this day, all Ford air conditioners show -- Lo, Norm, Hi, and
Max -- on the controls.
I can hear your groans from here. Control yourself !!! I don't write this stuff.
[You really had me going on this one. Very funny!]
Tommy's Mom: Actually, that last one was pretty good! LOL
To get back on topic a little, some pretty good pictures of what a porker George was prior to February 26, 2012, can be found at these links.
Here's George Zimmerman's Myspace Page
George Zimmerman's MySpace Disparages Mexicans, Mentions 2005 Criminal Charges
That you Dave, for this very well written piece. I need someone to break things down sometimes and get to the nuts and bolts of things and it seems I can always count on you.
[My pleasure, Verna, and thank you for letting me know you can continue to count on me. That's great to know!]
I am glad you have a lot of personal experiences Dave. It makes your post more interesting. It personalizes what could be just another "version" of the events from court.
I do not know what you seen in Mr Zimmerman's eyes. I do not think they are cold. They are very dark imo. I do not care if Mr Zimmerman gains 500 pounds before his trial, it does not change what he did or why he did it. It does not change the fact he has lied countless times. It does not change the fact he has a questionable past. It also does not change the fact his defense has to find something in his victim Trayvon's past to excuse what he did. They can't justify it by using the evidence so they are trying to criminalize Trayvon. The only gangsta- lived to tell more lies.
Why do people expect kids to act a certain way? Why is DeeDee lying if she went on texting or tweeting that night or the next day? That shocks people but no one bats an eye that George 2 minutes after the fight of his life is posing for pictures all the while TALKING on his cell phone. Do we have a double standard? IMO he should be struggling for air since he had just been almost snuffed out by having Trayvon's hand over his mouth and nose. Or holding his head from the concrete beating or holding his poor whittle nose. It seriously makes no sense to me.
[I guess you can't live to be 60 and not have much experience, Michelle, but it's been a mixture of good and bad. Hopefully, there's a lot more to go.
I didn't see anything in George's eyes. Nothing nefarious; nothing one way or the other. Like I said earlier, had I run into him in the street, it would have meant nothing. I will say, flat out, that he did not have any sort of evil stare. If anything, it was more of the opposite, but who can truly sense a person in during and after a split-second glance. As a matter of fact, it took a split-second to realize it was him, but I knew it before he passed by.
I don't care what he weighs. Look at Marlon Brando, one of the best actors of all time. Did his weight change the man?
If we're going to address protein and starch, I want the meat and potatoes of this case and how that weighs into the case. I think we have to resolve ourselves to the fact that the defense is going to impugn Trayvon's reputation. They must because that is the whole gist of the strategy; to show him as a tough guy. How else would they get their man off the hook? It will come down to the seconds before Z pulled the trigger, including the shooting. O'Mara is convinced this is the only way to go. How else would he explain the difference in Z's stories and what separates them from the truth? The fact is, the defense needs to keep the information out that starts and ends the fight at the T. They must isolate the area by confining it to where witnesses place them. Not at the T. Bring in the witness claiming MMA-style fighting and produce that grainy video. That's the bulk of it, plus whatever else they can dig up.
I think it's wrong for adults to assume anything out of kids. There are plenty of reasons why 15, 16 and 17-year-olds are not labelled as adults. In my opinion, an adult acted very immaturely that night and look what happened.]
Setting aside that Zimmerman is not fit enough for Daves likings and who attacked who- setting all of that aside, no one who has lost someone so suddenly, someone who was their boyfriend or girlfriend will never understand how someone could hear what happened, know their loved one died, and go about their day tweeting like nothing happened and never went to the police after hearing he had died, its just all not going to fly and a reasonable jury will not believe this girl. She also wasnt his girlfriend, and wasnt at the funeral. This has all been a scam.
[Britt... Please adhere to the policy of this blog. Attack the argument, not the person. If you have personal issues with me, please submit them via the contact form located near the bottom of the left sidebar. Thank you.]
Brit
Please show links to your sources on how teenagers handle stress when it involves the death of a friend. The link to this being a scam would be helpful too.
Britt, I would be pleased and appreciate how you found your information, because I am one who likes to know if we can rely on what you just wrote or if it is a personal view, which is ok by me but Dee Dee is a girl and certainly a friend. Girl-friend to Trayvon.
Britt, I think I'm going to respond to your last post. I'm one of those people who doesn't show emotion even if it's a beloved relative who suddenly passes. I would also go about my life as if nothing had happened unless I was required to be somewhere or do something. You also could not drag me to a funeral. Not my mothers, not my beloved grandmothers. None. I don't do well with funerals and would rather remember the person as I last saw them. I'm unemotional where death is concerned. If I do show any emotion at all it's usually anger. So I'm not about to judge DeeDee on how she went about her day after learning of TM's death. And just when did she learn it, I don' t know. I too have wondered why she didn't call his parents or law enforcement after that phone call, but I'm not there, so I don't know. I know his father didn't know until the next day. And I agree, she wasn't his girlfriend even though I use that term when talking about her. I do remember when asked if she was she said "working on it". So you're right in that aspect. As far as whether it's a scam or not and how the jury will react, well I'll wait and see when it gets to court.
Tommy's Mom, interesting we had the same need from Britt. A source for info. Your story was a surprise bit of fun and I learned something too. Thanks!
Dave: Great post once again! I'm just so glad that you're able to go to the court house.
Why was George so sleepy and detached during the hearing? At least that's the way he came across to me.
Why so much interest being put on the girlfriend? And her actions afterwards? Makes no difference to me what she did.
What matters is that Trayvon; by Georges own words; was just minding his own business and walking through the complex. It was George, as well all know, that left his vehicle to pursue Trayvon. How is the defense going to get around that issue? And that issue bothers me because if George really thought Trayvon was up to no good; did he not fear that Trayvon could have had a weapon on him? Why chase him down instead of letting the police handle it? I think we all know the answer to that question.
I want the defense to have everything they need as well as the prosecution. I want this to be a fair trial. Let there be no wiggle room for an appeal.
Did I miss something? Has the judge decided on the gag order request yet? I hope she grants it. Yes, we have a right to know; but I think it would be prudent for us to know after the trial. IMO, letting the defense spew their skews on the case is hurting Trayvons' case.
Again; let them have all of Trayvons' records they want. It still doesn't change the fact that George was the aggressor. (If I were on the jury; it wouldn't matter if he got in a fight every week at school. Been there, done that. I haven't been in a fight since graduating high school. Does that make me a violent person because I stood my ground way back then? (Most of the fights I tangled in was because I was defending a sibling:) I was the nicer one of the three :).
Give the defense the records.
Put the gag order in place.
[I don't know why George was in another world on Friday, Sarah. From where I was sitting, it was something I couldn't observe. I guess there are definite advantages to watching it on TV.
The interest in Trayvon's girlfriend is understandable. She testified under oath as to what happened that night. She was the last person to talk to George and she said what transpired at the beginning of the incident. It's of utmost importance for the defense to try to discredit her. In order to do that, they will call her out on how she was too upset to attend his funeral. She had to go to the hospital, too, but she was laughing and joking the next day on her social accounts. This, the defense hopes, will prove she lied about caring. Therefore, she lied about the final phone call. Will this tactic work? It will be up to the judge to decide. It's part of the strategy for the immunity hearing. Discredit Trayvon and everyone else affiliated with him. Will they go after his parents? It wouldn't surprise me, but they aren't as vulnerable as teenage children.
As much as I agree with you, the immunity hearing will be about the final seconds and not what led up to it. That's why there will be no SYG hearing.
As to a gag order, it would effectively put us out of business. With no news, there would be nothing to report, other than what we could report from the courthouse after a hearing. A gag order would not restrict the media based on the "freedom of the press" provision of the First Amendment. Actually, it might be refreshing. I wouldn't have to argue with anyone.
Just kidding.
Thank you. I'm glad I can go to the courthouse, and I'm happier you enjoy my posts.]
Great Post Dave. :). I always enjoy your writing.
Britt, a scam? Seriously? I guess the state made George Zimmerman shoot an unarmed person and forced him to repeatedly lie about the whole event. Where were Trayvon Martin's rights that night? Did he not have the right to defend himself? It was George that got out of that truck with a gun and a flashlight, to follow Trayvon. I have no sympathy for the man.
[Thank you, Joanna. I'm glad you enjoy my writing. Tremendously!
I don't understand the scam part, either. Does that mean the government of Florida is made up of scam artists and only George and his defense are righteous? Interesting way of looking at it, I guess.]
conniefl
ITA I couldn't even attend a memorial service for a dear friend,I know she is with the Lord and that's enough for me.
Sarah
Great post. I sure hope the jury is willing to listen and review the real evidence. 911 operator: "are you following him? We DON'T need you to do that". He did it anyway and killed a child.
Joanna ITA
Who in their right mind can believe anything this "man" or his family say?
I agree with you about the weight issue. Whether it bothers me or not, it's something that gets noticed. Not just by you and the person you were talking to, but also by the jury. My daughter is bi-polar and when she was 15 she would hit and get into fights with me. Over and over the psychologist and psychiatrist asked me how it was that I couldn't control her, because I was so much bigger than she was. I'm 4'10", she is 5'5" but I weighed twice as much as she did. The prevalant idea was that I was twice her size so should have been able to stop her when she went into one of these rages. The jury is going to see the same thing and question it. That's the main reason his weight is and will be relevant.
Tommy's mom I loved the Ford story. I copy/pasted it to my facebook lol.
[You're right, people notice things. If someone shows up months later with a scar on his face, the naturla proclivity is to observe and wonder why. With someone like George Zimmerman, you bet it would be talked about. It's human nature and no one is wrong.
I think you made a good point about you and your daughter. I think it will be in the defense's best interest ot have George lose as much weight as possible before the trial, if he loses the immunity hearing. That's not going to be an easy task, and if I were the state, I'd monitor his medications leading up to the trial, if the court allows it, which I doubt.
By the way, Z called dispatch on April 22, 2011 to report a suspicious 7-year-old black boy. Maybe he had a grasp on the difference 10 years makes, but still... a 7-year-old? Black boy?]
Dave,
The cameras were mostly focused on the podium area. Did you by chance see Shellie at the hearing?
[I never saw Shellie, Xena, but that doesn't mean she wasn't there. However, I think I saw everyone and, certainly, I would have recognized her. Based on my observations and since no other media source reported otherwise, I would say she was not in attendance.]
Britt said: Setting aside that Zimmerman is not fit enough for Daves likings and who attacked who- setting all of that aside,
Me: I see Dave responded to you. I hope you scrolled up to read it. : - )
Regarding who attacked who—I think we should take a minute to look at that. I believe if you check you will discover that you came in with a nasty comment filled with: ‘prejudice and intolerance.’ My comment in response to your nasty one was at least polite.
Britt said: no one who has lost someone so suddenly, someone who was their boyfriend or girlfriend
Me: When the phone call was suddenly disconnected, DeeDee did not know that within minutes, Zimmerman had fired a 9mm hollow point bullet into Trayvon’s heart.
DeeDee’s age has not been confirmed, but she is most likely a teenager. A teenager who responded with ‘we were getting there’, when asked if she was Trayvon’s girlfriend. They had been friends since child hood, they were ‘getting’ to be boyfriend and girlfriend.
After being disconnected, she even tried texting him, and when he did not respond, I doubt she knew what to expect. Even though she knew that he was scared and that a creepy guy had been following him—first in a vehicle, then on foot—I doubt that there is a teenager alive that would expect that, within minutes, the creepy guy would put a bullet through the heart of her childhood friend.
Britt said: will never understand how someone could hear what happened, know their loved one died,
Me: Unfortunately, she did not hear what happened after the phone got disconnected. You will surely remember that it was after the phone got disconnected that Zimmerman fired the shot into the heart of Trayvon Martin. You, nor I, know when she found out that her childhood friend had been shot dead by George Zimmerman.
Britt said: and go about their day tweeting like nothing happened
Me: You cannot confirm that and I know that you cannot. It is just nasty, unsupported rumor from the Treepers.
Britt said: and never went to the police after hearing he had died,
Me: She was a teenage girl and she was scared. Yes, scared of law enforcement-- some people are. In those early days, law enforcement was not in a hurry to arrest Zimmerman. In fact it appeared to be quite the opposite. I wonder why law enforcement did not find her? They had Trayvon’s phone, did they not? Why did Tracy Martin have to be the one to find this very important ‘ear’ witness?
Britt said: its just all not going to fly and a reasonable jury will not believe this girl. She also wasnt his girlfriend, and wasnt at the funeral. This has all been a scam.
Me: When this pretty little teenage girl walks into that courtroom, the jury is going to be instantly reminded of Trayvon’s youth. No matter what, that fact will not be denied.
They will look over and see dopey, pudgy Georgie snoozing at the defense table, and the ramifications of his actions will hit them with a force.
I am waiting for a link confirming that you know for a fact that she was not at Trayvon's funeral. And you, nor I, can say what a ‘reasonable’ jury will find.
All in my ‘nsho’.
[I think "Britt" is history. (S)he hasn't been back since this comment from you, nan11. I think (s)he was one of those passing thru type commenters. Get a few digs in and laugh about it with friends. If (s)he comes back, it will surprise me.]
nan11 you go girl! You rock.
Does that sound strange from a 74 year old lady?
Thanks Dave an thanks for everyones comments.
[Absolutely, ecossie, the pleasure is all mine. And thank you, as well, for your comments.]
Tommy's Mom: Only gives me more reason to appreciate it! Ƹ̴Ӂ̴Ʒ
Dave,
I take just a paragraph from your excellent article so that I can scrutinize and beat the hell out of it (just joking ☺)
"...This leads me to the meat of the hearing — Citing prior case law, the judge granted the defense motion seeking Trayvon’s Facebook and Twitter records. Since Zimmerman is mounting a self-defense claim, he has a right to see evidence that may support any aggressive and/or violent behavior by Trayvon. It will be tough, though, because they’ve got to go through Facebook and Twitter to get those records. Not an easy task..."
Although I understand a defendant's right to face his accuser one must point out the obvious and its sadly overlooked so many times. The past indiscretions do not adequately show the day of. This in not a case of "what lead to what" as the facts are widely known. Take away the fact that Mr. Martin was black and you have a simple case of manslaughter. At no time did Mr. Martin's actions provoke Mr. Zimmerman. He was walking-he said that to the operator. The only thing Mr. Zimmerman said that may bring suspicion was implying Mr. Martin looked suspicious...then he blurted that the guy was black nothing was occurring that would give a "neighbor" a reason to suspect anything so why did Zimmerman feel threatened especially knowing that Zimmerman does not reside at the location.
Everything, to me, has been proven that Martin was on his way home (a place where he hung his hat) from 7Eleven. Iced tea and Skittles in his pocket. What business did Zimmerman have there?
Take away everything because in the end the dead Martin does not get to face his agressor. We do not need to establish what Martin was like, its ematerial but to show that Zimmerman persued Martin that's, IMO, material. To secure his past records shows a history...and it will show dellusions of grandeur and a perscription of drugs that have side-effects in the negative way.
[Hi, BMan - While I fully understand your point about the obvious, the justice system is blind. It cannot look at one side and agree. Since no one other than Z and T actually witnessed the onset of the incedent, who can truly say what transpired? And only Z is left. He claims he was attacked first. Even so, that's not the point, according to this defense. It was the few seconds that led to the shooting. Since Z is innocent until proven guilty, he has a right to make that claim. He is going to try to prove that T was violent to begin with; it would show that T "could have" been the aggressor, and that's what he wants to do. Remember, the 6th Amendment states that he may "... have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor." That means being able to review any records that show a violent nature. It also includes witnesses that may have been friends of T's and/or non-friends. While we may like to make exceptions, it's not the way the system works.
I absolutely agree with you that T was minding his own business and heading home. I also agree that Z started it. He was the initial aggressor, but that's not the defense's argument for the immunity hearing. They are claiming that, in the final brief moments, Z was losing the battle and had no choice but to shoot in order to save his life. While I don't believe his story, the court, remember, is blind.
If Martin was a violent kid, it would help the defense establish that there's a good possibility he was MMA trained. However, I don't think it will work, and the case will proceed to trial. I'm not worried about it. Since Z is the accuesed, he has a right to face his accuser. In this case, it's the state, because T cannot do it himself.
I hope that helps. I know it sounds unfair, but the best thing we have is what we think is the truth, and that's what the state is saying, too.]
Good post BMan and Nan!
BMan is right. No matter what TM did in his past at school or anyplace else, the bottom line is he was a kid, a scared kid, defending himself against this kook who was following him around the complex.
At some point Zimmerman needs to step up and say "I was wrong" instead of blaming the kid! I imagine what they're going to look for in TM's records is a past history of breaking and entering to justify Zimmerman's paranoia. Whether he has one or not, he wasn't up to no good that night. He was a scared kid with Skittles and ice tea.Zimmerman's confronting him after following him around the complex, to me, is what takes it above manslaughter. Zimmerman, whether he thinks it or not in his drugged up mind, was the instigator.
[For Z to step up and take the blame, he'd be committing suicide. He couldn't care less about T, and the shooting and his attitude immediately following it proved he's heartless. It was just a black. Mentor Schmentor. He won't even admit he made a mistake about the boy.]
nan11 I forgot to thank you for this,it was a really good read.
October 20, 2012 | by Make Each Day Count | The Truth Does Have An Agenda | October 19, 2012 Hearing- Pathetic Porky George, Posthumous Victimization, and a Prophylactic Sequestration Protection Order~~~~~~ Oh MY!
TOT
I feel like my body has gotten totally out of shape,
so I got my doctor's permission to
join a fitness club and start exercising.
I decided to take an aerobics class for seniors.
I bent, twisted, gyrated, jumped up and down, and perspired for an hour. But,
by the time I got my leotards on, the class was over.
conniefl, I agree that the most damaging would be to find any breaking and entering against Trayvon. It could maybe give some backing to the GZ story of there having been some in that complex and gain sympathy to his being a reliable security in his seeking to establish this young boy as walking around "up to no good".
My opinion is that any of it should not be a legal reason for GZ to ASSUME and be stalking, following Trayvon into a confrontation when he was told "we don't need you to do that", especially as GZ knew LE was on it's way. GZ had no reason except to say Trayvon was "there"! GZ was also there on the premises "up to no good"!
[By detailing the boy for the dispatcher, there's no doubt Z was profiling him. How did he know the boy was on drugs and up to no good? That's a very strong point for the state.]
Sorry if this has already been posted. It's just beautiful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_S-SHtoeu8
[Very nice video, Tommy's Mom.]
Thank you for doing such a great job with your posts. I enjoy and appreciate the fact that they are always so detailed. You are doing a great service here. I've added you to our blogroll as I'm sure others would enjoy their time here as much as I have.
[Thank you very much, Journey2Justice, and I'm sorry your comment got caught in spam for no reason and didn't show up until Tuesday morning. I appreciate your adding my site to your blogroll, and I will add yours to mine, as well. That's very kind of you.
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com
I try to attend the hearings, so if there's something you think I should ask while there, please let me know. You can contact me privately from the form on the lower left sidebar.
Again, thank you!
Dave
Dave: Thanks for the reply to my earlier post. Let me clarify my view about the gag order.
I'm not against info being released to the public. I am against the defense (O'Mara, the now celebrity brother {yes, he caught the CA bug}, mom and neighbors included) from going on talk shows and speaking about this case. As I have stated before; it's a repeat of the CA case. We have learned from that experience just how a jury pool can be tainted. I believe the defense knows exactly what they are doing. (Maybe O'Mara attended a Baez Media Blitz class 101.)
Tommy's Mom: Thanks for the video. My gawd what a baby face Trayvon had. (In my eyes, anyway.)
Wait until you try getting that sweaty leotard OFF! Two workouts for the price of one.
Tee hee.
[Unfortunately, Sarah, nothing can stop Robert, Jr. from squawking. From law.com, here is exactly what a gag order is and isn't:
gag order
n. a judge's order prohibiting the attorneys and the parties to a pending lawsuit or criminal prosecution from talking to the media or the public about the case. The supposed intent is to prevent prejudice due to pre-trial publicity which would influence potential jurors. A gag order has the secondary purpose of preventing the lawyers from trying the case in the press and on television, and thus creating a public mood (which could get ugly) in favor of one party or the other. Based on the "freedom of the press" provision of the First Amendment, the court cannot constitutionally restrict the media from printing or broadcasting information about the case, so the only way is to put a gag on the participants under the court's control.
This means that people like Robert will continue to preach his heart out, but with a gag order in place, it could, potentially, put my blog (and others) out of business unless we keep interviewing people like Robert.]
Tommy's Mom: Thank you for that little reason to smile. It is so true. That exercise gear can be hard to get into! : - )
Also, that is one of the most moving videos from LLMPapa. I think of Trayvon that way--still out there; alone, and screaming for help. :'-(
That is hard to cope with, but it is why I can't let this case go.
MO and Conniefl: I do agree that any past history of breaking and entering would be the big fish that O'Mara is hoping to snag. Even to have it discussed is a feather in his cap, and that of the Treepers.
I remember in the interview that Serino did with Zimmerman on February 29, 2012, that Serino said the following about Trayvon:
Quote:
{Snipped} Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He was born in 1995, February the 5th. He was 17 years old. An athlete. Probably somebody who was gonna' be in avionics--a kind with a future, okay, with folks that care. In his possession we found a can of iced tea and a bag of Skittles. And about $40.00 in cash. Not goon.
Later in the same interview:
{Snipped} Not quite your--you know--your prime suspect type.
By the 29th of February, law enforcement knew a lot about George Zimmerman, so I think it is fair to assume that they would also have known a lot about Trayvon.
I honestly believe that if there was any evidence of Trayvon having had a criminal history, or any violence at all in his past--that George Zimmerman would never have been arrest. Never.
I think O'Mara is looking--not because he expects to find anything; but, because he is being pressured to look for such by those who are funding the Zimmerman defense; and, because he is hoping to taint the jury pool--very much like Sarah explained in her comment.
I'll link this old, two page article from the Miami Herald, because it discusses the jewelry issue. It is fairly just in that it explains that Trayvon said that the jewelry belonged to a friend. Quote from article: "No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen."
Also, I'll add this remark from the Miami-Dade School Superintendent, quote: "“I think it’s shameful that people are having access, unlawful access, to privileged and private information about children,” Carvalho said .{snipped}"
There are so many if's here, big if's. The story could be totally false. The information that was 'unlawfully accessed' could actually be about another student, not the same Trayvon. Or, if it was Trayvon, he said the jewelry belong to a friend. That could be true.
Regardless, though, law enforcement could not even find a report to indicate that the jewelry had been stolen. No one even mentioned the incident to Trayvon's parents.
I think the truth is very bitter for Georgie Zimmerman. He profiled, stalked, and shot dead a kid, as the kid made his way home from a store. George Zimmerman is rightfully facing 2nd degree murder charges.
Somehow the law justifies giving him the right to dig for dirt in the past of a child that can no longer defend himself because that child was shot dead by George Zimmerman.
jmo
[I think it's a good thing that the jewelry issue won't be allowed in court. There's a lot that's come out, but remember Casey? We had tons of supposed "evidence" that never made it to the courtroom. In this particular instance, it wasn't the defense that leaked it, was it? That's my question. I think it came from a school employee and, if so, that person should be reprimanded severely.]
Dave: Have you had a chance to see this yet? O’Mara is soliciting a little help in seeking out any “potentially questionable statements”, that he may have made. This is to help him at the ‘Gag Order’ hearing on Friday.
The link does ‘source’ my quote, but I have typed it in its entirety because it is hard to read.
twitter
“Annette Elaine Kelly CONFIDENTIAL – Carole Green got this email from the legal team. Please send anything you think will help. – All this week we’ll be preparing to defend ourselves against the State’s renewed motion for a Gag Order. We’re confident that everything we’ve posted, and everything we’ve said publicly is proper and well within our rights, but we know that on Friday, the State is likely to find the most questionable thing Mark’s said and present it to the Court. I’d like to ask if you and other supporters could help us scour the web and, strange as it may sound, send us links to the most potentially questionable statements we have made during this process. Again, we’re confident ALL our statements are easily defendable, we just want to know what we’re likely to have thrown back at us. Let me know if you think you can rally some people to help. They can send links to this address: gzmediamail @ gmail . com”
It is interesting, but not surprising, that he would go to this direction for help. He needs to try the case in the media, so he must be in a lather over this pending gag order motion.
My personal feeling is that there will be no gag order. I like this judge very much, but I don't think she is going to change any of Judge Lester's rulings.
A gag order wouldn't silence Booby, Jr.--so let's not silence anybody, is my personal two cents.
moo
[Whoever leaked it is someone who's supposed to be helping the defense? I don't think so.
I hadn't seen this yet, nan11, but now it's all over the web. In the article posted on the gzlegalcase.com site, the writer asks readers to "... send us a link to any statement the defense has made publicly about the case that you think is inappropriate." Would "the defense" include statements made by George, too? If so, there's been a whole lot of inappropriate statements made.
Thanks for this info. Gee, I could almost write a post all about this mess they made for themselves.]
Sorry, Dave. This is the link I should have used above:
twitter
[I'm going to leave that other link because I want to examine it when I have time. Interesting, indeed!
Thanks for the clarification.]
Sarah
Thanks for the chuckle.
I can't remember the last time I wore a leotard and that's a good thing. It's way to hot here most of the year. I may try tights this winter if it ever gets chilly enough.
This is another great video from LLMPapa. He uses a football field to help us understand the distance in relavence to time that Zimmerman says he covered.
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Oct 22, 2012 by LLMPapa | From His Truck To The "T"
Perhaps Georgie missed his calling and should have been a professional football player. Or perhaps he is just the lying POS that I think he is. MOO
[Excellent video, nan11, but I'm a Jets fan.
This video is what shows that George has been lying. Of course, he does have the option to lie again by changing his walking to skipping, but it would still have taken much longer than 10 seconds. Just like Casey, the truth and Mr. Zimmerman are strangers. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.]
Dave: So now he tries to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. {Hee Hee}
GZ Legal Case | on 23 October 2012 | Zimmerman Defense Invites Public Scrutiny of Media Policy
Quote:
Although we originally intended for the message to be private, we feel the message is sound, and since it has been made public, we extend the invitation to anyone who has an interest to participate: send us a link to any statement the defense has made publicly about the case that you think is inappropriate.
[I'm not a bit surprised. I think O'Mara is destined to become a politician. When things go sour, appeal to the public.]
I'm all fired up now, and I just want to add this.
I find it very, very strange that via social media accounts, and through the unlawful access of school records, that two issues would turn up that would be so 'perfect' for Georgie boy's defense.
1) the jewelry, watch, and screwdriver purportedly found in the backpack.
and
2) the history of violence that could be shown through the 'punching' of the invisible bus driver.
Number one would be exactly what Georgie needs to show that the 'suspicious' person he saw that night had a prior history of burglary--therefore, his 'profiling' would be seen as justified.
Number two would be exactly what Georgie needs to show that the 'suspicious' person he followed that night had a propensity towards violence--therefore, justifying Georgie's story that Trayvon struck first.
How utterly convenient those two facts would be for Georgie. All too convenient, imo.
And I'll add this link to where Trayvon's older brother, Jahvaris, said that it was not Trayvon in that 'fight club' video I linked earlier. (Sorry the video at this link does not work. I'm linking solely for the article.)
Here is a quote from that article:
Quote:
The clip, uncovered by theconservativetreehouse, was found on a YouTube page supposedly belonging to Trayvon.
[I'm not the least bit concerned with the jewelry and bus driver incidents. They are hearsay and, therefore, inadmissible. There's no arrests and no incident reports on either of them, so who says so? Hey, I could say Trayvon punctured one of my car tires. Maybe, I should say that on my Facebook page. I guess that would mean it's true? He did do that? Ha! News to me.]
So, O'Mara has Stutzman run a little smooth-over article for him. imo
Orlando Sentinel | George Zimmerman defense, national media prepare to fight gag order request
Sub-Title: Zimmerman's attorneys make 'strange' request, ask supporters to find 'objectionable' statements.
Quote:
O'Mara contends he's doing nothing wrong, that he does not discuss evidence and that he's carefully following Florida Bar rules about what he can and cannot say.