Holstering a Lie
Wednesday, September 19, 2012 at 12:34PM 
Frantically, White-Hispanic Man fought for his life, screaming, kicking and shimmying, as the mighty monster, Big Black Gangsta Boy, grabbed the gun from its holster, nestled along the right backside of our legendary hero, George ZZZIMMERMAN. Tossing and turning they went, as Trayvon Martin, gripping George’s head with both hands, smashed it over and over and over against the sidewalk pavement, in what must have been at least one-hundred times. CRACK! CRACK! CRACK! People on-scene heard the muted sounds of breaking eggs. Trayvon was better than the best Ninja fighter, everyone later described, as he took his third and fourth hands and covered George’s nose and mouth. Good thing he was still able to blow those desperate cries for help out his rear end. Better yet that, as Trayvon held onto George’s arms with his fifth and sixth hands while grappling for the deadly gun with his seventh, super-duper ZZZimmerman was able to break his arms free from the gangsta’s vice-like grasp and pry the gun away in the nick of time, single-handedly taking precise aim and firing it directly into our enemy’s rapidly beating heart. POP!
Yes, God was on our mighty hero’s side that night because, Trayvon, who stood 5-feet taller and 300 lbs. heavier than the demure, yet pudgy George, ended up losing the war after knocking the man 40-feet south with one single blow. KAPOW! Through the air ZZZimmerman went, in the opposite direction, too, as the young teenage Trayvon, with one giant leap, landed viciously on top of his stunned target, like a lion lands on its prey.
HA! HA! HA! PFFFT…
That’s the way some people like to describe the way it happened, but in reality, it didn’t. As a matter of fact, I believe the gun’s recoil hit George in the face, not Trayvon’s fist, but speaking of blows…
In a huge blow to the defense, forensic tests made public today show that Trayvon’s DNA WAS NOT found on George’s gun. The only DNA that could be identified was George’s. That means Trayvon NEVER touched the gun. PERIOD. Or you can buy into the Zimmerman spin on it, I’m sure, and excuse it this way: Just because it’s not on the gun means nothing. George’s super-clean DNA wiped off dirty Trayvon’s. George’s is much more powerful. Besides, Trayvon was just “going” for the gun. George stopped him from ever touching it. Our hero! End of story.
Sure.
Just remember that, in a court of law, evidence that’s not evidence is no evidence at all. That means the DNA found on the gun is real evidence. George’s DNA. The DNA that wasn’t, isn’t. Get it? The lack of Trayvon’s DNA on the gun will do nothing to help the defense. It may, however, be argued earnestly on pro-Zimmerman blogs and forums, but that’s it. Call it damage control. My advice is to ignore them. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement tested samples from the gun’s grip. Just George. No one else, and with more tests performed on other parts of the gun and holster, technicians were only able to positively identify that he had control of it. Was George too fast on the draw for Trayvon to try to defend himself?
Does that mean Trayvon never fought for the gun? Does anyone really believe he had a seventh hand? How about a third?
I rest my case.
Links:
Case Part 5: Gorgone FDLE Complete Report
GZ State’s 7th Supplemental Discovery (Redacted)
Cross-Posted at Daily Kos
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Reader Comments (121)
Marinade Dave, I forgot to thank you for making this nice post. Thank you.
[Thank you, ChickaDee, the feather, I mean, the pleasure is all mine.!]
Manberk
I like that line of thinking
Manberk: I agree with all your points.
One more I would add is the 'ear' witness testimony of DeeDee. Very powerful, imo.
Dave~~ I found the following article very interesting....
In a new pleading, Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda asks Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson to seal whatever those records show and in the future to keep O'Mara's subpoenas a secret.
Read it all here..
Prosecutors: Keep Trayvon Martin's school records secret
[I understand exactly why de la Rionda asked for that. Already, we have the Zimmermites lashing out at nothing more than implications, all based on publicity fostered by the defense. Just asking for school records creates a negativity toward the victim.]
This comment is my synopsis and represents my opinion only. And I kind of threw in everything but the kitchen sink.
On the evening of February 26, 2012, pleas for help could be clearly heard in the background of a 911 call. The pleas for help—among other pleas—revealed that a 17 year old teenager, Trayvon Martin, was in mortal fear for his life.
After listening to various recordings of that call, I can hear a frenzied Trayvon crying out the words: “I don’t know.” These words come unaided from my speakers, entering my awareness through only my old and faulty hearing.
Proposed also are words, which admittedly I cannot hear. These words precede the ’I don’t know’ and their tenor suggests that they are: “Who is doing the break-ins?”
A quick recap of a non-emergency call, also made on the evening of February 26, 2012, will reveal the caller stated—as he had many times in his call history—that there had been break-ins in his neighborhood.
Eventually, it would be revealed that the caller had some interest in becoming a police officer, and was involved in the Neighborhood Watch program. In fact, the caller was the co-ordinator of the program in his neighborhood.
Deducing from his own agenda, the caller revealed that he had spotted a suspicious person. The suspicious person—Trayvon Martin—had his hand in his waistband. The caller added that as the suspicious person headed toward his vehicle, the suspicious person now had something in his hand.
The caller—morphing into the pursuer—appeared distracted during this part of the call. He had trouble maintaining his concentration to answer the dispatcher’s questions.
From this time period, there was an ear witness, DeeDee, who stated that the suspicious person—Trayvon Martin—told her that he believed there was a person talking on a cell phone; in a vehicle; trying to run him down.
Escaping the pursuing vehicle and its operator, the suspicious person ran to a dog walk area, where vehicles were not allowed.
Marking this, the pursuer parked his vehicle and began his foot pursuit of the suspicious person.
The pleas for help began about three minutes after the end of the non-emergency call; or about five minutes after the pursuer could be heard leaving his vehicle. The pleas of the person deemed suspicious by the pursuer. The emotional, blasted pleas of Trayvon Martin which should instil nightmares in any compassionate human being.
Let us think about a 17 year old kid, alone in an unfamiliar neighborhood. He had grasped that he was being relentlessly pursued.
Entering the darkness and what he perceived to be the safety of the dog walk area—where vehicles were not allowed—he stopped to catch his breath and answered an incoming call from his girl friend. Possibly a call also came in from Chad, the young friend Trayvon had purchased the ‘Skittles’ for, and with whom he was visiting as an invited guest.
Unknown to Trayvon at the time, his pursuer, now on foot, had spotted him. Too late, Trayvon realized the creepy guy, his pursuer, was close, very close—and was gaining ground with every passing second.
Trayvon was approaching a safe place, but he was not there yet. His breathing was labored as he struggled to remain calm and speak with DeeDee, whom he had been speaking to on his cell phone—off and on—since before the pursuer had begun the pursuit.
She implored Trayvon to run. Understanding great speed would be required, Trayvon prepared by slipping his canned drink into his pocket, and allowing the plastic bag to fall to the ground.
Suddenly, from the left, the pursuer jumped in front of Trayvon. Panicked, Trayvon courageously demanded: “Why are you following me?”
The pursuer was heard replying: “What are you doing around here?”
Many miles away, through her cell phone, DeeDee would hear first a thump and then Trayvon Martin uttering the words: “Get off! Get off!” The line went dead.
Had the pursuer knocked Trayvon down and straddled him? Had the pursuer a gun in one hand and a six inch tactical flashlight in the other? Did Trayvon escape, causing a chase to ensue? At some point, did the pursuer drop his flashlight and grab Trayvon’s clothing?
Perhaps Trayvon began to struggle. Perhaps he shouted: “Let go of me!” Perhaps Trayvon’s arms were flailing.
The neighbors began to take notice. Some would later describe what they witnessed as a ‘wrestling’ match. Some would describe it as a chase going from north to south; others as a chase going from south to north.
Earlier in the dark evening—as the pursuer searched—he had collided with a sign. This sign was to the north—near the “T” intersection of the dog walk area, and marked a doggy poo station. This collision had caused facial and head injuries to the pursuer. It was then that the pursuer dropped his mini flashlight, which was attached to his key fob, (or attached to his wife’s key fob.)
After regaining his footing, the pursuer angrily drew his gun from his waistband.
A friend would describe the pursuer as being mad as hell, and not wanting to take ‘it’ anymore. Within the past month the purser had had his medications for a central nervous system disorder adjusted.
Whatever the acumen, George—the pursuer— was in an unreasonable state of mind. He had physically injured himself, and was angry. He was unable to accept that he had made a terrible mistake by profiling and pursuing an unarmed teenager.
17 year old Trayvon Martin was still screaming; and begging; and pleading for his life.
Overlooking his crystal clear duty to retreat, the twisted psyche of the pursuer elected to carefully aim and fire a 9mm hollow point bullet directly into the child’s heart. The 9mm hollow point bullet silenced Trayvon Martin, once and for all time.
The pursuer, who had now become the killer, had studied criminal justice, and was familiar with the Stand-Your-Ground law.
The killer—evincing a depraved mind—would proclaim the victim’s final screams as his own. Later the killer, with the same frame of mind, would attribute his actions as being ‘all God’s plan.’
Within moments, if not seconds, of the shooting; the killer was photographed talking on his cell phone.
The vital signs of the killer were tested as normal.
Trayvon Martin, who had been 17 years old for 21 days, was covered in a yellow plastic tarp—and lay in the vicinity of where he had been felled.
The canned beverage that Trayvon had purchased less than an hour prior was placed on top of the yellow tarp. It was still cold.
Later that evening, law enforcement would advise witnesses that the screams—which were silenced immediately upon the shot being fired—had belonged to the killer.
Testimony would emerge from the father of the killer—testimony that would state that the dying pleas for help promulgated by Trayvon Martin were screams from his own son, the killer.
If you were Trayvon Martin, would you want justice?
[Wow, nan11... just WOW! That's a mighty powerful statement and one you put a lot of thought and raw emotions into. If I had my way, I'd put it up as a new post instead of just a comment. All I can say is thank you. It's a great one; compelling and highly convincing.]
Dave~~ IIRC O'Mara insinuated that he would publish any dirt he found on Trayvon on his website. De La Rionda is going to do his best to put the kabosh on that one. I can't understand why Mark would go that far.
Osterman has now become a case study for the prosecution... they will go thru his book and video of his tv appearance with a fine tooth comb.
This case is getting to be an Octopus with many tentacles...
[I think you're right, Snoopy. Attorneys can be like dirty politicians. Anything to win. Just take a look at the master, Jose. They don't get any better than him. Why would Mark do it? I knew he would. He's a criminal defense attorney.
Of course Osterman is now a stoolie for the State. What an egotistical idiot he is. He did no favors for his li'l grasshopper except break out the bug spray.
Tentacles, did you say? Good, I thought - for a brief moment - it may have been something else.]
Mr Knechel~~ You know my spelling sucks. LOLOLOL
I needed a good laugh...
I was just terracing a few chapters for the Osterman book, and something jumped out at me I had not considered. But, given some of the comments I have heard GZ make, I think I have found something the defense will use. I know this is a bit far fetched, but so is GZ's claim of self defense. I recall that GZ claims the English is his second language. In the book, Osterman goes out of his way to point out that GZ misunderstood what the dispatcher was asking of him throughout the NE call. I bet O'Marah will try to convince the jury that a language barrier was involved, and that his misinterpretation led him to leave his truck. They might even use the same excuse as to why George had inconsistencies in his statements given during the interviews, and why he failed to advise the court that he did in fact have money in the bank. He didn't fully comprehend what was being asked. They might even request an intrepeter during future hearings to bolster their claim.
[GZ can claim all he wants, but who grows up in America today, born and raised here, with English as a second language? Methinks he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Again. I wonder what his über-patriotic, über-white, über-American English speaking fan base would have to say about that! I guess it would be OK, because George Zimmerman, to them, is one giant numero übero.]
Vicky~~Osterman has really harmed Zimmerman. It would be no problem to prove that Z comprehends the English language in written form or verbally. I don't think Oster and Z will end up being best buddies when this is all over. If they get joined at the hip, I will call them the Zosters. It is getting late, can you tell?
Excellent article, Dave. There are so many wonderful, thought-provoking comments as well. I'm up early this morning and wanted to add the link for the Miami Herald, which published an excellent commentary about Osterman's book and how the prosecution will use him on the stand.
While you and the posters here have all referenced the content of Osterman's book, the most interesting new thing here is a quote from Mark O'Mara.
"Although he questioned whether Osterman’s memory is accurate, O’Mara admitted that between Zimmerman’s various interviews to police, his father and brother’s accounts to the press and now Osterman’s, there are several versions of what happened that night, but he characterized the discrepancies as a surmountable obstacle. If everyone’s story was exactly the same, O’Mara said, then it would smack of a lie.
O’Mara said it took him 10 days to respond to the book draft after he received it, but when he got around to asking Osterman to scrap the book, the publishing contract had already been signed. O’Mara chalked it up to miscommunication, adding that Zimmerman has taken a court’s “no contact with witnesses” order to heart, and has not spoken to any state witnesses except his parents since he left jail on bond while he awaits trial on a charge of second-degree murder.
“We will be able to respond to the six, seven, eight different renditions of the story, how and why there are different statements,” O’Mara said. “The jury is going to believe what the jury is going to believe.”
Read more here: Zimmerman’s friend: Trayvon grabbed gun
I would have to agree with O'Mara that Z-man's stories should not be absolutely identical, the fact is, they became more and more self-serving. I hope the judge/jury picks up on that. Well, I'm sure Judge Nelson will!
While I'm posting, I'd like to ask if anyone has been able to locate the "bushes" where Trayvon supposedly laid in wait for Z-man. I have yet to see one in the vicinity of the incident large enough for the lanky young man to hide...
[Thank you very much, ritanita. I'm glad you enjoyed the article and the ensuing comments. It makes for a great team!
“We will be able to respond to the six, seven, eight different renditions of the story, how and why there are different statements,” O’Mara said. “The jury is going to believe what the jury is going to believe.”
You gotta love it. While I do {somewhat} agree that stories will vary to a slight extent, GZ's story discrepancies are far from slight, and you are SO right; his embellishments only serve to benefit him. He's a liar.
The only bushes I am aware of are nestled against the buildings and serve as nothing more than shrubbery; ornamental in nature. They can't stand more than two feet tall, give or take a few inches. How does a 5'11" person jump out from a 2' bush? Only in the world of ZZZimmerman!]
Heres a thought .....Bear in mind I know nothing a bout fireams ettiqete but isnt it polite an humane to issue a warning before you fire a fatal shot?We have allegedly Georges voice screaming before the fatal gun shot.I no theres a lot of debate over whos shouting an whats being said..But nowhere is a warrning heard of stop or I will shoot?.....P S Great article Dave.............
[Thanks, ecossie! I think there was no warning because Zimmerman panicked. He took the shot because he was a frightened coward, IMO, but he's as shrewd as a rat and a quick thinker. After the fact. Obviously, he wasn't thinking earlier that night.]
ritanita~ ~thank you so much for posting that link. I just finished reading the article. No wonder O'Mara is getting a headache. Osterman should have kept his nose out of things. It is going to come back and bite him in the butt maybe moreso than Zimmerman. Osterman is risking losing his job but he must have known this going into things by writing that book. Why should people believe Osterman's version of the events? It is his word against what Z actually told him and just how good was MO's memory when he was recollecting what Z said.
I doubt if Osterman would have taken O'Mara advice and scrapped the book when it was still just drafted.
Snoopy Sleuth, I have a vision of the prosecution calling Zimmerman Sr., Zimmerman Jr, Frank Taffee, Osterman, and the other guy whose name I forgot and elicit every version the THE STORY Z-Man told. They can't say they didn't say it, it was on TV and the prosecution will show them. Add in Z-Man on Hannity, and the tapes from LE and the reenactment done the day after the shooting.
Mark O'Mara has one big bunch of burbling blabbermouths on his hands. Although he may say inconsistencies in a story ore hunky-dory with him, I wonder how long it will take the jurors' heads to stop spinning with all those different versions.
Ecossie ~ ~since I do not believe that high pitched voice screaming was Zimmermans, Z had planned to hit his target right through the heart like Osterman taught me how to do out on the firing range. I cannot see Osterman not explaining to Z that, if you want to claim self-defense, you shoot to kill so the victim will not be alive to testify against you. Z could have held Trayvon at bay until the police arrived but did he really want to? Somehow I doubt that.
ritanita ~~maybe the idea is to make the jurors heads spin and get them so confused that it will end up as a hung jury. This case is starting to remind me of the Haleigh Cummings case out of Putman County when all the stories of the people of interest were so dang confusing, LE could never figure any of them out. At least some of those idiots ended up in jail on drug related charges.
All the people rushing to Zimmermans aid is doing more harm than good but maybe there is method in their madness. Why O'Mara stays on this case is beyond my comprehension. He is a busy man who has other cases and spending unnecessary time on the Z case is like a thorn in his side. I could understand if Mark was receiving big bucks and I don't think that any publicity he makes from handling this case is worth it his efforts.
nan
what a post
yeah i can see it went down something like that
awesome post though
Questions that I just answered on another blog. Dave, hope you don't mind me posting them here...if so... you have the control buttons and just swipe it...
(1) Having been exposed to inadmissible evidence, such as W9′s accusation that Zimmerman sexually abused her multiple times during a ten-year period that began when she was 6-years-old and he was 8-years-old, do you believe you could ignore her accusation and base your individual verdict only on the evidence admitted in court?
[[Yes, I could completely ignore W9's accusations.]]
(2) Assuming your answer is “Yes,” why do you think you could ignore it?
[[I feel it is totally irrelevant to the case being tried. These were kids for goodness sake. Why this witness came forward at this time is beyond me. I am assuming she had a fallout with Z along the way and had an axe to grind. I think she should have a mental evaluation after listening to her testimony. She knew that Z was a fondler yet went over to visit him willingly knowing what may be in store for her. I am not buying it. ]]
(3) Do you believe it is possible for you to presume Zimmerman innocent, given what you know?
[[As to Z's guilt or innocence, my thoughts have been like a yo yo. I am leaning towards guilt but 'beyond a reason doubt' is still nagging at me. ]]
(4) Knowing what you know, would you find him “Not Guilty,” if the prosecution fails to meet its burden of proof because it did not introduce evidence that you recall?
[[No but.... Now here's my rub..... I want the prosecution to prove everything they promised to do in their opening statement. They better bring on more than what I have learned so far as I may be the one creating a hung jury. I want to see evidence to support the charge of second-degree murder. I want to be shown proof that Zimmerman had a depraved mind. I want the prosecution to paint a picture for me, one that will authenicate the one Angela Corey applied her brush strokes to. When I make my decision of guilt or not guilty, I want to feel confident that I was making the right call. As at the time of this writing, I cannot honestly say that I could do that. ]]
[I don't know if you were asking for my opinion or not, but here it is anyway.
I think it's important to note that those questioned were prefaced with an opinion regarding sequestration. Whether that had anything to do with the way they were posed or not is something I cannot answer.
With respect to question #1, I would not assume that all potential jurors are familiar with W9 and what she said. Why would anyone want to taint the jury pool with a question like that? Right away, you're letting everyone know he stands accused of sex crimes; incestual, to boot. Instead, I would ask them if they are at all familiar with anything stated by his cousin; something that would not be admissable at trial to begin with. If you treat "jurors with honesty and respect, instead of suspicion and distrust," as the post author suggests, you should get the truth, right? No need to go into all those sordid details.
With respect to your response to question #2, I will go along with you until we reach the part where you wrote, "She knew that Z was a fondler yet went over to visit him willingly knowing what may be in store for her." I disagree. Most young female sex victims keep their mouths shut. I think we can sympathize there. From the very start until the end, she didn't have much of a choice about going "over there" to visit him since she had no car, nor could she make her own decisions as a minor child. Notwithstanding, it wasn't always her going over there. How many times did George come along with his parents to her house? Or on his own?
Whatever this line of questioning is all about, I doubt anything this probing would come until much later; after lots of screening. By then, the people left would most likely have little to no knowledge of the case. Look at Casey's jury. It's quite obvious they knew very little, right?
In his book, Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony, Jeff Ashton wrote:
“My worst fears from jury selection manifested themselves in the verdict. This jury needed someone to tell them exactly how Caylee died. Piecing it together from circumstantial evidence was not good enough for them. They wanted the answers on a silver platter, but we didn’t have the evidence to serve it that way. It’s not just the verdict that tells me this, but also the manner in which it was reached. The fact that they didn’t request any materials to review. The fact that they didn’t have any questions for the judge. If the statements that the foreman of the jury made to the media are true, ten of these twelve jurors felt that ninety minutes of deliberation was sufficient to fully weigh, consider, and reject four weeks’ worth of testimony that we on the prosecution used to establish that this was first-degree murder. The rest of the thirteen hours of deliberation had been spent trying to convince the two holdout jurors of the decision.”
Some preface is in order. Nothing like an interruption from your service provider while one is trying to engage in coversation.
Michelle :) Good choice.
Snoopy, (ha!) Wecome to the dark side as far as O''Mara's concerned. No tentacles--but I've had it up to the yin-yang with with the smear compaign. Pulling for BDLR to prevail on that motion.
Dave a few questions if you please? Comments from the prior case post are off. If it's intentional good enough, otherwise I could bear to re-read them. Additionally, while in complete agreement as to their value as a hiding spot, (what a joke) can you or anyone else, identify those shrubs for me? I'd like to look them up to see if they're the slightest bit scratchy, for obvious reasons.
Familiar with St. Augustine grass and Florida's sudden downpours, there's a chance he dashed down the street, rounded the corner to approach from the North and fell face first into those little shrubs.
To be clear; I don't suggest the scrape over his nose or it's bump came from falling into bushes! There are, barely visible, a couple of other scratches on his face. They're certainly not consistent with a face first roll over concrete, contact with Trayvon's zipper (no doubt pleastic) and Trayvon's fingernails are already entirely rulted out. I ask only to further my own knowledge.
Nan! Congrats on an excellent post. You are close, so close.
North or South, South or North? Sound bounces and echoes so weirdly between buildings. Close neighbours hear a gunshot, a pop, a rock. Depending upon their location within their own units, a few miss that sound entirely but do know there is an alternation of voices.
Using data available to date, an impossible guestimate only.
Luckily, the Prosecutor's office doesn't have that problem!
[The comment thread is off, but you can still read all the comments if you click on the title of the post. Or HERE.
I don't know what kind of bushes they are, to be honest, but if they are like any other ornamental shrubbery like that, they are filled with branches that would scratch you up if you stumbled into them. What they won't do is hide an almost six foot tall person. Something else to keep in mind, and I don't recall who said it - Trayvon had a hoodie on, right? How good was his peripheral vision? He had to keep turning his head to see what was going on around him. Z never took that into consideration. Instead, his own private "criminal" kept eyeballing him. Yup, up to no good.
I think it's quite possible that running took place in both directions, as Trayvon ran for his life. Up and down; down and up. Until he was caught. I most certainly would not have run to my house as the Zimmermites suggest. The rat fink would have followed me right in, assuming I was breaking into the place. I am convinced that gun was out of it's holster the moment Z stepped out of his truck. No way was he going to go hunting with no weapon. Not after telling the dispatcher he's up to no good and he's reaching for something in his pants.]
Ah, Mon Ami !!
1) I am glad our Secret Squirrel Decorder Ring still works.
2) You are attending night school, A+ !
3) I would immediately and freely admit during Voir Dire that I have used the Intrarwebs to discuss this case and am not fit to serve on this Jury Panel.
amateur de café aka Coffee Lover~ I finally got your name right en francais... Acadian French can be confusing... I just hope Monsieur Google is not a fraud in his translations.
Anyhoo, I only judge O'Mara from the neck up to avoid any disappointments. It never even crossed my mind that he may be part octopus-blame it on Dave.
Even De La Rionda agreed that O'Mara can go on fishing trips since the state and PI working for T's family cast a few lines to see what they could reel in.
There has been so many inconsistencies in George's stories that I don't think a bit of shrubbery will make much difference. If T was hiding behind a shrub, he would had to have been down on all fours.
P.S.
Having taken one minute to look.
1) I believe the public's access to documents with regard to a criminal proceeding should be abolished.
2) I believe that televised trials are a disaster that affects everything that goes on within a Courtroom. Yes, the photographic evidence of a murder is gruesome and traumatic for a jury. However, when the Prosection's evidence is severely restricted by a Judge because it is too gory for public consumption, the Jury's rights to make a fully informed decision are hampered to an impossible degree.
3) I believe that Sequestration strikes fear in the soul of every potential juror. Unless they are completely alone in this world, no one wants to go there.
4) I believe that nothing will ever change because I have an opinion.
[I don't think televising a trial makes a difference. The jury is off camera the whole time and the public never sees the gruesome evidence; not like I did at the Casey trial. Despite being part of the media, the public that was allowed in those days got to see it, too. While I could have meticulously described the jury members in my magazine articles, I chose not to. That was my choice. I only wrote about them in vague terms. If you recall, I did publish a drawing of the skull evidence, and the publisher thought it was sheer genius at the time, but I only did it to illustrate what we saw and how much it should have weighed against the defense. Oh well, we know the outcome.
No one wants to be sequestered, but in some cases, it's very important. If you give people a chance to cheat, some of them will, and they will try to find out the facts on their own. It's human nature. Look at the infighting on blogs and forums. Aren't we all responsible, respectful and civil adults? Yeah, right.]
Dave~~I totally agree with you that a potential juror would not be asked Question No 1... During a voir dire, they will be asked if they are familar with the Zimmerman case and, if so, have they formed any opinions of his guilt or innocence. During the voir dire, they would not be asked to weigh on any evidence that was not even admissable at the trial.
I am unsure why that question was asked. I answered them all to the best of my ability. If a potential juror was aware of Witness #9 and had read documents or listened to audio interviews, IMO, they would be disqualified as a juror.
Thanks for your opinion...mucho appreciated!
[Not to denigrate the writer, Snoopy, I just found #1 to be peculiarly intriguing. The thought of that question brings one thing to mind; its intent could only mean one thing - to sabotage a jury.
I'm glad you didn't mind my response. Thanks.]
Dave~~this is off topic but it is Friday nite...lol
Here is one judge who I came to admire. The jurors were not sequestered even tho this was considered a high profile case, the death of Michael Jackson. Judge Michael Pastor not only had great control over his courtroom, he won the attentiveness of the jurors. He would be a good role model for other judges to follow.
Meet Judge Michael Pastor
P.S. What is the name of the crying judge who was on the bench for the custody case re Anna Nicole Smith? He went from a taxi driver to don a robe and sit on the bench. He could take a few lessons from Judge Pastor.
[That was Judge Larry Seidlin, then of the Seventeenth Judicial Circuit of Florida. As a matter of fact, he starred in my very first video, all the way back in March of 2007. A Stern Rebuke... one minute long.]
Dave~~I have been out and about hither and yon. I ran across the following and after viewing it found it very informative. He does not appear to be biased.
Stand Your Ground
[I'm familiar with Massad Ayoob. He's an excellent orator and very knowledgeable. Although he doesn't come across as biased, he is, but I don't mean that in a detrimental way. If anything, he probably thinks Z is a kook. My opinion only! He's pro-gun, not that there's anything wrong with that, but that makes him biased to the opposing side. Thanks, it was a good video.]
Snoopy I agree Monsieur Google is not our friend, Let's give up the ghost on him! We'll stick to English because I never, ever thought Trayvon hid in any bushes.
I also reserve the right to do some {major} sucking up to our kind Blog owner, whose patience knows no bounds. TY for that link. Newbies are pitiful.
Now, I'm going to take our host's genius and run with with it a little. You already knnow I believe Zimmerman lied through his teeth to the NEN operator regarding his own movements and what he was really doing before his call ever connected.
Bear with me while I elaborate a little. I find the teacher's account credible, but I see a snag there. In her FDLE interview, she's reading her book and hears a disturbance.It concerns her enough for her to stop reading and she estimates the time the serious trouble starts at about 10 minutes later.
Sure I could postulate that two other unknown people walking their dog raised their voices enough to disturb her, given "sound bounces". That's actually entirely possible but it just nags me.
Dave--genius--of course Trayvon had no peripheral vision of course he was checking behind him. And he was young and walking on a flat, level surface. He may have done a little backwards walking. I'd have done that, anyone might. OR he could've come to a full stop and turned fully around to have a good look. He'd never have mentioned actually doing that to Dee Dee, he didn't have time IF he heard something behind him at that moment, he'd have whipped around again.
There's some indications Zimmerman approached from the North and I want to get into that. A witness without glasses sees a glimpse. Trayvon's phone is found North from his body. Where was his phone at the second before the shoving started? The teen was right handed, it was drizzling and the two teens had had several phone disconnections.
For your persual, I put forth the idea that both Trayvon's hands were in his hoodie pouch, and the 711 bag was looped from his left wrist. Instinctively his right hand comes out first and his phone is in it. It drops or is knocked from that hand. Hmm, in any case I've convinced myself of couple of things.
Both hands were in his hoodie pouch seconds before this began. If I'd stopped running and thought I was safe for a moment or two, that's where my hands would be. That boy was scared and he ran, but he'd hung onto both his bag and his phone while he did so.
OR, in fact the phone stayed in Travyon's hoodie till Zimmerman checked the poor body and tossed the phone North.
Zimmerman knew the RATL like the back of his hand. He couldve'd paused, winded at the T while juggling gun, his two flashlights. And his determination.
Dave's right, there was some running, pushing and shoving that moved to the ground. Quickly. Those recycled bags are so cheap. Using BOTH hands, I just finished trying to rip one from the handle. After all, they use the same bags world wide. The handle part didn't 'give' much but the bag split immediately. If the bag, temporarily stuck, it was wet out, to Trayvon's wrist, it could've bumped Zimmerman's nose but not from much distance or with much velocity.
I also bought a toy cap gun. At close quarters with the gun in my right hand about an inch and my hand just slightly to the right of nose nose, yep, could've been a recoil that gave Zimmerman his own bloody nose.
Once upon a time I thought Trayvon could've got a punch in. I no longer believe that. The bump's on the wrong side of Zimmerman's nose and the can doesn't acount for the abrasion. Just get a soda can and hold it to the left of your nose. It just doesn't work.
Retiring in defeat, I await the State's experts.
[Moi? Genius? Surely, you jest!
One of the things I really wondered about, pertaining to Zimmerman's account of a punch in the face by Trayvon's fist, is that Trayvon had a plastic bag with a big can of Arizona in it. If I were to go on the attack with THAT kind of weapon, I'd hit him with the "tea bag" instead. Right up the side of his head. It would have floored the guy, and it's one of the reasons why I don't believe Zimmerman's story. Because Trayvon had limited peripheral vision, Z caught him off-guard. No way a street smart punk, which is a blatant stereotype perpetuated by the "White Birch Society," is going to open his mouth and say something before doing damage. It's a complete contradiction. The kid would have done his best to catch Z by surprise, like I said, and hit him first. And only a street stupid punk like Zimmerman would use the word homey, not a 17-year-old black child. As a matter of fact, homey was used by Z in his Myspace diaries. Of course, his stories have changed and homey was changed to "or something like that."
As for Trayvon's cell phone, where it was found is where the fight started, obviously, so that, too, refutes Zimmerman's claim that it began at the T. Trayvon most likely broke free and ran toward the T, where hey connected again, and then he high-tailed it south, to the point where it ended in his death.]
Dave~~ [That was Judge Larry Seidlin, then of the Seventeenth Judicial Circuit of Florida. As a matter of fact, he starred in my very first video, all the way back in March of 2007. A Stern Rebuke... one minute long.]
I remember seeing that in my travels.... You have certainly come a looooooooooong way since then. lol
[Yeah, a little bit different from back then. I learn as I go, I'd say.]
Coffee Lover~~one question. Do you have a conceal and carry permit for that toy gun?
Dave~~ I ventured over to the other side of the tracks and then came to a forest. I don't think Osterman has many friends in that tree stand. In fact, I could not find one. I could not pass the following up as it was so off the charts. I will paste it below to show the mentality of one of the ashes or birches. Please note: Before CPR is administered, you check the pulse of the victim. If you cannot find a pulse you start CPR.
(copied from its orignal format with the exception ... I added the bold italics...)
judging from the police report, the could cpr may had been the real cause of martin’s death. Yes, zimmerman did shot martin in the chest, but doing cprs could had also further aggregate the injuries of martin and caused his rapid demise.
[MY GAWD! How ludicrous is that?! Death by CPR! There's a first. What's interesting is that none of Zimmerman's supporters is willing to place 1/10th of one percent blame on their lord and savior, Georgemaster. Why they feel that way is beyond me. He's just a mortal. WWJD? Carry a gun?
These are the idiots that would put their finger in the dyke and swear it's not leaking. As they slowly drown.]
Snoopy~~Answer. No more than you do for that wicked sense of humour! Write on the chalkboard in your best Bart Simpson imitation: We will not indulge ourselves on Dave's board, we not give in to tempation.Repeat as necessary..
We will hold back because if we start it's game over my dear. The End.
Dave. I didn't follow the Anthony Saga. I saw some headlines in late '08, had a thought and 'tuned' out. Three years later, I tuned in, watched, read,would pre-order Jeff Ashton's book. Having checked this blog for nearly 2 months now, I understand in full what happened to you personally. Enough said.
I do wish I'd seen that sketch. Hoping Google will be more than friendly.
Post Script. Snoopy I haven't looked at the forest in days. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Our shotguns have been trigger-locked for well over two decades.
[Piece of cake, CoffeeLover... The sketch is still up and you can see it at: I Was There. You might want to read the article, too, because it explains the title.]
200 pictures....
FDLE Neighborhood Photos
[A lot of pictures, but they didn't tell me anything. Thanks for the link. Looks more like a real estate advertising spread.]
Snoopy~~Answer. No more than you do for that wicked sense of humour! Write on the chalkboard in your best Bart Simpson imitation: We will not indulge ourselves on Dave's board, we not give in to tempation.Repeat as necessary..
We will hold back because if we start it's game over my dear. The End.
*In my best Bart Simpson's imitation. -To whom it may concern.
I will not grin, t'would be a sin
Nor will I laugh out loud
No more joking and such
I'll make you oh so proud
I will cry and pout
Without a doubt
When I come in the room
Surely will make you happy
To see my doom and gloom
I aim to please
So will not tease
The least that I can do
Maybe by a miracle
I will become
An old prune just like you.
I will even let a frown be my umbrella on a rainy rainy day.
by Snoopy ( ö¿ö)
[You're very slick
At telling a limerick.]
As penance for all my sins, I will read a couple books of the Old Testicle.
Dave, it is about time we had another fun Sunday ....all work and no play....
[That's one of the reasons why I put CHAT back up, but there's nothing to alert anyone that someone posted anything. I'm working on some major blog changes, though. That, I will tell you.]
Dave~~I found the following in one of my files and am not sure if I posted it so here goes....
I am serious in trying to connent the plastic bag containing the tin of Arizona tea with the wounds on Z's head. Some have suggested that the tin should be dented but I can see the top of the can hitting Z in the head and not denting the can at all. Thus...).. If Z had his head turned slightly while he was reaching for the gun in his holster (Not the cell phone as he said) the bag containing the tea may have struck him in the area of his head as indicated in the pictures. The ')' being tipped slightly.
Remember T did not have any bruising or cuts on his fists. He did have a small scratch or scar near his left ring finger as per the autopsy. The only other one listed in the report was a very small scar on his left shoulder which was probably not even related to the altercation.
I could not find any report if the tea was tested for G's DNA, and may have had trace evidence, if he placed it inside T's pocket when he manipulated the body turning it over. The tea should not have any blood on it since it was inside the plastic bag. I believe that we have more evidence that will come from the state...evidence that has been sent to the FBI lab to examine for trace evidence, latent fingerprints and the like.
I put myself in Trayvon's place. What would I do if a strange man who was stalking me suddenly cofronted me and went to go for the firearm in his holster? What would be my first instinct? What did I have to defend myself? I would have swung that bag of tea up the side of the strange man's head with every bit of strength I had. The impact possibly knocked Z off his feet and all things do indicate that he fell to the ground. A short wrestling match ensued with both of them trying to get that gun and we all know who one that battle. When Z got T in a position to shoot him in the chest, he did just that. The last thing Z wanted to do is have to explain why he shot a young black teen in the back. This is one reason Z checked T's back for an exit wound.
My theory is not taking one piece of evidence and running away with it. I like to use a bit of logic to try and put the pieces together so they may make a bit of sense. I may be far out in left field. We need to look at all the angles. Now I will fall off my soap box and probably land on my tush as per usual.
[The only thing is, there's no evidence to support that the can was used as any sort of weapon and Zimmerman never mentioned it, either, so it would be next to impossible to introduce now. I also feel that smacking him in the head with it, especially in the bag, would have done two things; one, put a major dent in it and, quite possibly burst open, causing it to spray all over the clothing; and, two, it most assuredly would have torn the bag open and hurled the can somewhere else, causing big dents on impact with whatever it came into contact with upon landing. On top of that, why would Zimmerman then pick it up and place it in Trayvon's pocket?]
Dave~~since you have debunked my very logical theory, will you tell me how Z got the bruises on his face and a possible fractured nose and T did not end up with marks on his knuckles? I will not accept any theory that says Z walked into a tree or that is was self mutilation. The podium is all yours.
Just an aside....who makes the tin for the pop cans in the US? *evil grin
[Come on, now, I cannot tell you how he got banged up, but I can tell you in all probability how he didn't.
I don't know. Who? Canadians?]
Dave~~you said, "Zimmerman never mentioned it"...are you telling me that suddenly you believe things that man said? Don't you think it would be easier to claim self-defense by saying someone socked you in the nose and beat your head on the pavement moreso than swinging a bag of tea and hitting you? Why would a person swing a bag of tea? To defend themself of course!! In this case, Trayvon would be defending himself by swinging the tea. Z put it in T's pocket so it would be less obvious that it was used as a weapon of self-defense.
[No, I am not saying that all of a sudden I believe Zimmerman. How can I believe in something he DID NOT say? How can I believe in anything from anyone if they don't say it to begin with?
By the way, since Zimmerman claims T attacked him, that's when the bag of tea should have come in, not later. T could have decked him with it and not used his fist, which he didn't use, either, because he was never in a position to. Neither the can nor T's hand were injured.]
Snoopy, I really don't think the can of tea was used as a defensive weapon by Trayvon. I'm still not convinced that the tan bag is even the one Trayvon left the store with. Like I said in another thread, GZ never mentions Trayvon having something in his hands.
However, one thing did occur to me. What if Trayvon had the bag stuffed in his pocket and GZ felt the bulge during the struggle and assumed it was a gun? He might have pulled his gun, accusing Trayvon of having a gun and dragged Trayvon to his feet by his hoodie. Trayvon might have tried to convince GZ he was unarmed, reached into his pocket to prove it, and GZ shot him, believing he was going for a gun. That would of course mean they were standing at the time the shot was fired. when Trayvon fell to the ground, the contents fell out of the bag, GZ realized he had screwed up royally, quickly stuffed the can and skittles back into the pocket and rolled Trayvon onto his stomach, leaving the bag on the ground.
How's that for thinking outside of the box?
Snoops, I think that GZ scrapped his head on a sprinkler head on the ground during their struggle. As for thenscrape on the nose, if the two of them were rolling around on the ground, I can envision several different ways in which one might scrape his nose. We don't know if Trayvon smacked him in the nose with his phone. We don't know if he grabbed GZ's keychain and threw it in his face. We don't know that GZ didn't already have a scrape on his nose.
Vicky~~that tan bag was evidence marker #2... It will be interesting to see if I even came close to what really happened. I think I am going to leave this case up to the experts. It seems to be going round in circles with no end in sight. I am going follow suit like our Kansas friend and bid adieu to Zimmerman. It has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me. I have been neglecting my Sandbox for much too long.
Dave~~I apologize to you if I came across as trying to create an argument. I thought that I may be adding something to this blog since things were so quiet. What I wrote seemed logical to me at the time. I will leave you in peace.
[Apology accepted. Adding something to any blog is a good thing, but the point of doing so is to generate discussion - pro and con.]
Regarding whether or not TM had anything in his hands, George should have known full well since those hands also covered his mouth. He can't keep up with his own lies.
[Hands down, I hope it's those lies and contradictions that ultimately get him, not to mention his blatant profiling - "He's up to no good" and "Something's wrong with him." Zimmerman set himself up for his own fall. And Trayvon's.
Dave
I just read "I was there". My first thought was I wish I had known about you sooner but, when I finished reading the article I was glad I hadn't. I'm even more devastated that Casey wasn't convicted. I watched some of the trial and was amazed that the jury never asked to see any of the evidence or ask any questions of judge Perry. A real mis-carriage of justice.
[I just reread the post I wrote, Tommy's Mom. You're right, reporting from the courtroom did turn unpleasantly graphic at times, but it had to be said. And shown. As Jeff Ashton said, "You don't make an accident look like a murder."
Thanks for your thoughts.]
This may or may not be of interest. I do wonder how the defense wil see this.
Trayvon Martin’s hoodie (ME 12)
No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin are found on both lower sleeves.
Two holes were discovered in the area of the “upper left chest” (one in each item of clothing) that exhibited characteristics consistent with a contact gunshot.
No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin are found on both lower sleeves suggesting that Trayvon was not beating Zimmerman. JMHO of course
[Exactly! No blood splashing means no head bashing. Where's the evidence of it other than George's word? HA! HA! HA!]
Okay, it was stated by Bryan the other day that Trayvon was on top of GZ in the dominant position. IMO, the reason Trayvon was on top is because GZ was holding him there with a tight grip on his hoodie. That is why the bullet hole is higher up on the hoodie while the bullet penetrated the boy's heart. So, that isn't saying that Trayvon was in a dominant position. It does show, imo, that Trayvon had reason to flail at GZ to get loose from his grip and to scream for help. And, it doesn't mean that Trayvon was straddling GZ when they fell to the ground. I believe GZ grabbed Trayvon and they did a bit of struggling before falling to the ground at about where TM's body was found. That's why I wondered if GZ's head wounds were from the tree branches. That perhaps TM was able to shove him into the tree while attempting to escape this madman.
Osterman's statement is that GZ said there was a struggle for the gun so, to me, it puts Trayvon's grip on the gun according to GZ's story. Here's the quote: "Somehow I broke his grip on the gun where the guy grabbed it between the rear site and the hammer. I got the gun in my hand raised it to his chest and pulled the trigger". As Dave said, and other commentors have pointed out, Trayvon would have to have a few more arms to do this while covering GZ's mouth. Its a BS story that Osterman chooses to believe as if he can snowball sane people to believe it, too.
Dave, you said if we have any questions about your amazon/ebay ads to go ahead and ask, so here goes: you see those lovely off-white boots? Might you buy me that pair in size 7? :-D lol
Back to reading these fantastic comments!
[Sorry about this, Sherry. I started answering you much, much earlier, but got into other things. There was definitely a tussle of some kind, but what it was, we do not know. However, I do think it's safe to say it didn't transpire the way Zimmerman said. }}}CLEAR THROAT{{{ Which story that Zimmerman said would we believe, anyway??? This is why Trayvon would have to have multiple arms - to explain all of Z's versions of the night, and that's just him.
You have a question about my Amazon/ebay banner at the top? I don't see the same ads that you do, I don't think. Or I don't make it a habit of looking at women's shoes unless... they are on the woman's feet. AHHH... and I would only buy shoes for the woman who will let me take them off...]
Am I supposed to be getting an email whenever there is a new post? I'm not getting them so I thought I'd better ask.
[I don't know, Tommy's Mom. Have you ever gotten any email alerts in the past? If not, I can help set you up with one, but bear in mind that I haven't written a new post lately. Not since this one. I need to git crackin'.
All caught up! Wow! Everyone is on top of their game with their comments!
Dave, as I read your first two paragraphs, the voice of the old Superman TV show's narrator resounded in my head along with the music, lol! Nice write-up~
If I were the prosecutors I would want to establish first that GZ had opportunities to introduce himself to Trayvon but didn't. Let that stay in their mind the whole time they listen to the state's evidence and make sure it sticks in their minds while they have to listen to GZ's lies, er, defense scenario(s).
And, just a note, being pro-gun does not automatically make one pro-Z. In fact, I'm thinking only the CTH nuts are pro-Z because I've not heard from any pro-NRA person outside of them say that GZ has a SD defense since he did go out and pursue the young man. In the beginning of this case I read an article about blacks in the NRA because of research I was doing on another topic and the writer mentioned this case and denounced GZ's SD defense.
[Thanks, Sherry, and yes, the comments are excellent. When I was writing those two paragraphs, I definitely wanted them to sound fictional and comic-bookish, so I guess I succeeded. That's how absurd I think Zimmerman's excuses were.
For sure, Z had ample opportunity to introduce himself, but he chose to hunt the boy down instead. This was a game that turned into a horror story. It was a collision that could easily have been avoided had the adult acted responsibly. While the other side blames Trayvon 100%, what they fail to consider is that only one of those two people was an adult.
To be honest, I know a lot of people here that are pro-Z but I really do feel it has more to do with racism than anything else. Z happens to be less black, or is it more white? They are all gun people, too, but if there is anything to that, it's because of the combination of racism and guns. I know for a fact that there are black attorneys involved in this case who own guns, so they are not against them. It's the lack of responsibility that perplexes them. Z was a nutjob.]
Oh I -so- wish there was evidence of Trayvon swinging the bag from 7-11 and busting Mr Zimmerman in the nose. It is not like he did not deserve it, Mr Zimmerman followed Trayvon. First by car, then on foot and whether they both ran or skipped it had to be terrifying no less. I also thought at one time the top of the can (where the metal sticks up a little possibly called the lip of the can?) could have been what cut the bridge of Mr. Zimmerman's nose but the little scratches off to the side of his nose made me think he could have ran into a tree branch. If only Mr. Zimmerman would tell the truth. Doubt that would happen though, he seems content lying about Trayvon being a thug.
Dave just curious has anyone ever told you that you have a over active imagination? I do not mean that in a disrespectful way at all. The way you write takes quite the imagination to tie it all together. You could make a killing writing college term papers! LOL, of course I am kidding. :)
[If the can was used, there would be some mention of damage to it. I would be happy to learn T walloped Z on the side of the head with it, but he didn't.
You know, Michelle, one of these days I'm going to take my overactive imagination and start writing fiction. Murder mysteries, perhaps...]
Am I supposed to be getting an email whenever there is a new post? I'm not getting them so I thought I'd better ask.
Okay Dave maybe I aked this wrong. I meant to ask about the comments that are made,sometimes I get an email about them and sometimes I don't. I just come over here and look at those I didn't see in an email,no big deal really.
I am looking forward to your next article.
In order to receive email alerts about new ARTICLES, you have to request a membership account and then "Subscribe to Page Updates." If you don't want a membership, you can go to Relay Station and subscribe to article updates there. I cross-post on multiple sites that lead back to this blog.
In order to receive COMMENT updates, it's pretty easy. Underneath the box, where you type your comment, there's a small box you can check. Just to the right of it, it says, "Notify me of follow-up comments via email." I believe that, after you click the box, you will receive follow-ups from that point on, but only on that particular article. With each subsequent one, check it as you make your first comment.
Please let me know if that works!
Is that your way of telling me you are going to bump me off in your first murder mystery? Well dang I gave it away you will have to whack someone else first! LOL
I wish Trayvon had walloped him good too! Mr Zimmerman deserved it. At this point I would be happy if the tree kicked his behind. I can only imagine how terrifying those 10 to 15 minutes were.
Looks like something stronger than my normal beverage's in order today, but it's too early!
Mon Ami called me an old prune, then beat me to the punch, retiring with a headache most understandable. .Tylenol won't help.
From a distance on a cruise ship we've spotted the tip of an iceberg. We circle it slowly, have used some binoculars to peer at crevices while oceanographers work the murky depths, measuring and interpreting their findings.
Zimmerman's out there too, in a dingy he made himself. Omara will toss thousands of life preservers, no doubt paid for by the State. Will Zimmerman catch even one? O'Mara will lay claim to the idea he's caught plenty, I think his dingy's so full of doggy doo he's up to his contact lenses in it..
Ha ha ha. I've solved the case.Zimmerman returned to his truck and spent a few minutes using his soft contact lens refresher. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Dave, TY for for sketch. It's bookmarked. I've a thought about that pool ladder. One day at a more appropriate time I'll mention then for your reaction.
A couple of clicks reveals more whooshes in the Force.
Having found his channel I did enjoy LLMPapa's "hep me" Rhonda video. Hilarious! Fond memories of a transister radio and towel in the sand far away, whilst daydreaming and listening to the boys.
Chuckle!