A Full Nelson?
Thursday, August 30, 2012 at 2:16PM On November 6 of this year, Americans who are registered to vote will have the opportunity to elect the next president of the United States. This may or may not include hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens and half the roster of dead people in the city of Chicago, but that has nothing to do with the context of this post.
If President Barack Obama prevails, he will have another four years in the White House. If Mitt Romney wins, he will be sworn in as the 45th president on January 20, 2013 — Inauguration Day. How this election fits in with the topic du jour is quite simple. There will be a smooth transition between the outgoing and incoming members of the executive branch. It’s the same as it’s almost always been since the inception of this great country. Every four or eight years, we witness this peaceful transference of power, and the country never skips a beat.
It’s the same with the George Zimmerman case. In a 2-1 vote, the Fifth District Court of Appeal rendered its decision regarding Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr.
PER CURIAM.
George Zimmerman petitions for issuance of a writ of prohibition. This is the proper mechanism for challenging the denial of a motion to disqualify a trial judge. See, e.g., Lusskin v. State, 717 So. 2d 1076, 1077 (Fla. 4th DCA 1998). Reviewing the matter de novo, see R.M.C. v. D.C., 77 So. 3d 234, 236 (Fla. 1st DCA 2012), we grant the petition…[.] Accordingly, we direct the trial judge to enter an order of disqualification which requests the chief circuit judge to appoint a successor judge.
PETITION GRANTED.
While some may gloat over the decision to remove Lester from this case, I most certainly do not. I feel that the judge scolded Zimmerman and nothing more. I am convinced that he would have soldiered on, putting that reprimand behind him. He would heve continued to rule judiciously and fairly, but that’s old news now; what’s done is done. There’s no point in arguing over the how and why of it. While we had our discussions and disagreements over the motion to recuse and subsequent writ of prohibition, today, it is nothing more than water under the bridge, and it’s time to move on.
I am convinced that, just like our election process, there will be a very smooth transition from Judge Lester to the person Chief Judge Alan A. Dickey names as his successor. Who will it be…?
First of all, let me explain what I know about the inner workings of a courthouse, having some experience in it.
At the very beginning of the Casey Anthony case, Ninth Circuit court Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Jr. asked several judges if they’d be willing to take the case. One by one, they said their dockets were too full. Keep in mind that these were judges working the criminal division, not civil. Judges routinely rotate between criminal and civil every two years or so. No one wanted the case. Perry then turned to someone else. He made a wise choice when he asked Judge Stan Strickland to take the case. You are one of my best judges and, most certainly, extremely qualified to handle it. Strickland agreed, despite having recently moved from criminal to civil. It’s important to note that Strickland continued to hear civil cases, too. Judges, like criminal defense attorneys and prosecutors, are not narrow-minded or restricted. Like servers in a restaurant, they can wait on more than one customer at a time. Trust me, to Judge Lester, the Zimmerman case was just a job and nothing more. What happened to him is part of the process.
When the first judge in the Casey Anthony case was asked to step down, he did so without argument. Why he did it is of no relevance in the Zimmerman case. What matters now is, where do we go from here? When Judge Strickland removed himself from the bench, what happened next was somewhat revealing and it will be similar, if not identical, to the type situation that Judge Dickey is faced with today.
[Since this writing, Judge Debra Nelson has been named to replace Judge Lester.]
During the Anthony mess, media pundits were reporting that, generally, chief judges take on highly problematic cases. Judge Belvin Perry certainly did end up doing just that, but in the interim, it was far from as simplistic as the news actually reported. Behind the scenes, Perry was asking his Orange County circuit court judges to take over the case. I will never reveal how I know that, but it came from more than two sources — all at the top. One-by-one, they turned him down. Do you see the caseload I’m sitting on? I’ve got over 3,000 cases on my docket right now, was the common mantra. Ultimately, Perry was left with no choice. It was, after all, a most problematic case and, reluctantly, he decided to take the helm. The rest, they say, is history.
§
In one of his recorded phone calls from jail, Zimmerman discussed what judge he wanted with his wife, Shellie. This was just as Mark O’Mara signed on to defend him, so it was an early conversation. Zimmerman hoped to get retired judge O.H. Eaton. Eaton has a sterling reputation as a fair judge, levelheaded and extremely knowledgeable in law. What Zimmerman knew about him then is a mystery, but even I was aware of it.
He ain’t gonna end up with Judge Eaton. And I’ll tell you why I think that. Eaton is a retired judge. That’s not to say he’s too old. It has nothing to do with that. Retired judges are not salaried. Retired judges are freelancers. They make a lot more $ per hour than sitting judges. This trial is at least a year away. Would the taxpayers of the 18th District, particularly voters in Seminole County, agree to that kind of arrangement? Granted, you couldn’t end up with a better judge, but would he be willing to take on the task if asked? He doesn’t need it. He’s the kind of retired judge who listens to cases to take the burden off other judges, but they are not major cases like this one. If Dickey runs out of judges in Seminole County, better yet that he would discuss this matter with some of his active judges in Brevard County before handing it over to someone outside of his circuit. Technically, Eaton is no longer active.
One of the names being bandied about is Seminole Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson. She is every bit as qualified as Judge Lester to sit in judgement of Zimmerman. As a matter of fact, she is most deserving because she is also a no-nonsense judge who was appointed to the 18th Judicial Circuit in 1999 by then-governor Jeb Bush.
In 2007, Judge Nelson presided over a rape case. The accused male, then 41, was eventually convicted of dragging a 10-year-old girl into the woods, choking and raping her. It might be interesting to note that the perpetrator, Antonio Rosales, was in the United States illegally. Also, during the trial, he confessed to murdering a woman in Tucson, Arizona.
While his trial was under way, he went berserk in the courtroom:
His defense attorney, Tim Caudill, moved for a mistrial. He claimed that the outburst tainted the jury. Judge Nelson rejected that, and upon sentencing, she did something unusual. Let me preface this first. Because of the girl’s age, in rape convictions, the charge carries a mandatory life sentence. Judge Nelson decided to take it two steps further. She added two additional life sentences, but she never gave a reason why. To this day, the sentence stands. (See also: Orlando-area jury convicts illegal immigrant of 2003 child rape)
What’s most interesting to me is that Judge Nelson has a reputation for setting harsh sentences. In George Zimmerman’s case, he’s facing a mandatory 25-years to life in prison. That’s because of the 10-20-life law enacted by Governor Jeb Bush in 1998. It’s sometimes referred to as “Use a gun and you’re done” law. According to Florida’s 10-20-life statute, anyone who pulls a gun during a crime receives:
- Felon in possession of a gun - mandatory minimum 3 year prison sentence
- Brandishing a gun in the commission of a crime - mandatory minimum 10 year sentence
- Discharging a gun in the commission of a crime - mandatory minimum 20 year sentence
- Injuring or killing another person in the commission of a crime, by discharging a firearm - 25 years to life in state prison
Just ask Marissa Alexander, a young Jacksonville mother who was convicted of three counts of aggravated assault and sentenced to 20-years for firing a warning shot into a wall during an argument with her husband. She lost her Stand Your Ground motion and she had, what appears on the surface, to be more of an excuse for pulling the trigger than Zimmerman will ever be able to conjure up. Incidentally, the prosecutor during that case was none other than Angela Corey. She said that Alexander was angry and reckless the night of the shooting, not fearful of her life. She will bring the same argument into court when Zimmerman files his immunity motion. Was he more angry or afraid? If in fear, was is objective or subjective?
Judge Lester ruled judiciously and so will his successor. Whoever Zimmerman ends up with, that’s it. There will be no more musical benches, and who he gets will not be singing anything in his ears. He may be laughing today, but his silly games are now over.
Just for your information, In 2012, Judge Lester was deemed the best judge in Seminole County (in all categories) by his peers of criminal defense attorneys and prosecutors. So was another judge in Orange County back in the day. Oh well. If Judge Dickey decides to take the case, it’s not going to be any easier than Nelson or anyone else. Judges are not amused by the antics of George Zimmerman. Of course, that’s my opinion, but I am allowed to be judgmental… or let me say, I am allowed to say so. So will the next judge. Zimmerman is plum out of dismissal motions.
Click to enlarge image
This article was written prior to the court’s decision regarding Judge Debra Nelson.
Dave Knechel | in 10-20-Life, 18th Circuit Court, Angela Corey, Bernie De la Rionda, Casey Anthony, Chief Judge Alan A. Dickey, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Donald West, Eighteenth Circuit Court, Florida Fifth District Court of Appeal, George Zimmerman, Judge Debra S. Nelson, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Judge Stan Strickland, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Orlando Sentinel, Seminole County, Seminole County Courthouse, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article | 1 Reference 
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Reader Comments (82)
I guess I am emotional about this case. Or maybe my brain is not yet developed enough to put all this information together. It is interesting to me how you all add enough information to keep me thinking. Snoopy it never crossed my mind that Mr. Zimmerman's friend and dad could have helped him that night. Why do I not think like you? I only add comments when it is something I feel is somewhat along the lines of how we think. Teens. Or when I have question that turns into the same question asked 5 different ways. (sorry again Dave)
Snoopy do you know if all the witness statements have been released? What if anything can happen if there is proof someone helped Mr Zimmerman come up with his statement of events? Do you think if there is a statement being held it could have something to do with something someone over heard near the crime scene as far as the events leading up to the shooting. Like overheard Osterman telling Mr. Zimmerman what to say?
Oh and about making stuff up sometimes I take you seriously but the more I read I can tell you are fooling around. Don't tell Dave but I think it's funny when you pick on him.
Michelle~~I read your comments so I am going to pass this time in trying to answer.
Dave~~I hope all is well at your place... I am going to let you tackle Michelle's many questions as I just do not have the answers. It was a fun couple of days with the girls and now I am way past my bedtime...nite..
Dave~~this just came in my alert...
Time for A Gag Order in George Zimmerman Case?
[I think it will be interesting to hear what Osterman has to say. Read what law.com has to say about a gag order:
n. a judge's order prohibiting the attorneys and the parties to a pending lawsuit or criminal prosecution from talking to the media or the public about the case. The supposed intent is to prevent prejudice due to pre-trial publicity which would influence potential jurors. A gag order has the secondary purpose of preventing the lawyers from trying the case in the press and on television, and thus creating a public mood (which could get ugly) in favor of one party or the other. Based on the "freedom of the press" provision of the First Amendment, the court cannot constitutionally restrict the media from printing or broadcasting information about the case, so the only way is to put a gag on the participants under the court's control.
As far as I know, a gag order doesn't restrict people from discussing a case; only the attorneys, their client, the prosecution, and all witnesses. Someone has to ask first, and in this case, the State's not going to do it. O'Mara seems to be sold on Z's kooky ideas, and that must include his pal Osterman, too. Does this reach the level of asking for a gag order, anyway? I don't think so. Osterman is not going to leak evidence. No one knows what he's going to say. If he flubs it, the defense may respond accordingly.]
Dave~~this article seems to be well written and along the same lines as I have been thinking. The removal of Judge Lester is not a win for Zimmerman, it is more to ensure that a fair trial will take place and justice for Trayvon Martin will have a better chance to be accomplished and the outcome (verdict) will be accepted.
The effort to ensure fairness in the trial of George Zimmerman, who’s accused of second-degree murder in the shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, got a big boost last week.
Justice vs. the Judge
[That's an interesting article, Snoopy, but I don't really agree with the write about Lester. I think he would have been fair. I do agree about the new judge. I don't think she's going to be any different as far as going easy on Z is concerned. As for the other two issues, Lester ruled on the cousines allegation of sexual improprieties based on the sunshine law, not prejudice, as the auther suggests. That's my take, anyway. And on the possible conflict of interest with Nelson over Shellie Zimmerman being on her docket, I flat out disagree with that. Nelson hasn't even had her in her courtroom yet. Where's the conflict? Other than that, it was a good piece. Thanks for the links.]
Thank you for all the links, Snoopysleuth. It is very quiet in here. I expect Marinade Dave and most everyone is observing the Sabbath. This is my day to do a lot of reading in here and trying to put the pieces all together. There is so much to learn.
[Yes, it is quiet in here. I did some minor work on the car this afternoon. This morning, I mowed the lawn. Now, I'm worn out. But I'm here...]
Snoopy there is no need for Dave or you to answer my questions. After reading your comments it just made me wonder about the witnesses. I do not add anything to the blog except lots of questions. This is the first time I have followed a criminal case and find it interesting. Sometimes I feel like I annoy you all with the endless questions. Sorry about that if I do. Just so there are no misunderstandings I mean no disrespect, and it is okay that you do not answer my questions.
Michelle~~there is no need to apologize for asking questions. This is how we learn. I read your questions and to tell you the truth, I do not have the answers for them. If I made an attempt to do so, I would just be speculating and I do like to stick close to the facts. I thought it was rather brilliant of me to pass things over to Dave so he could try and answer them, a little sneaky but brilliant nevertheless. One thing I can answer for certainty is that we have not been privy to all the evidence yet. The state has to pass more discovery over to the defense and what it entails, I haven't a clue. Let's hope it is something we can sink our teeth in to.
Thank you Snoopy. You made me feel a little better. I have been accused of asking to many questions. My favorite word is why. It use to drive my Mom crazy now either she is ignoring me or she has gone deaf. I think if I ask Dave one more question he is going to turn off my comment box. About the evidence we have not been privy to will it all be released before the hearing for self defense or do they keep some of it until the real trial? Oh my gosh, sorry just ignore me. I can not help myself with the questions. I really do not know what is wrong with me. My last name should be Pain. Haha.
Dave~~there is no conflict of interest at the moment that Debra Nelson is assigned to both cases, George and Shellie's. Shellie went for arraignment on the perjury charge, pled not guilty and was granted bond. I do believe that another judge will be assigned to Shellie to avoid any future conflict of interest.
Was it not a judge who granted her the bond? If so, who was it?
[No, there isn't a conflict. As a matter of fact, quite possibly, she could have bonded out at the jail and not in front of Nelson. The writer of that article only mentioned that she was already involved in the case because of Shellie. She did not say anything about a conflict, so that was my misinterpretation.]
Michelle~~the self-defense immunity evidentiary hearing will not take place until closer to the trial date which has not been scheduled. I expect we may have a tenative date sometime next month. Most certainly, Mark O'Mara will want to have viewed all of the discovery before he goes ahead with the hearing. I believe, and stand to be corrected, as per usual, that the state can withhold evidence up to within 30 days of the second-degree murder trial as long as that particular evidence does not help prove the defendant's innocence. The sitting judge, in this case, Debra Nelson, can set a date for ALL discovery to be passed over to the defense.
I am going to make a bargain with you okay? I will gladly try to answer your questions if you will stop putting yourself down. As the elephant would say, "keep your chin up, it keeps your ears from dragging." I think that was Dumbo.
When little babies first learn to talk, they will point their little stubby fingers towards something and say, "was dat?" Well that is when they are not trying to stick something in their mouth to choke on.
Okay. I did not realize that my comments seemed negative. It's more like me trying to explain why I ask so many questions, it seems I can't control myself. We learned quick not to stick stuff in our mouths. Someone we live with loves Bleach. It has a nasty taste. You said: I believe, and stand to be corrected, LOL that happens even at your age? Oh snap, that does not mean you are old. I am going to go work on my speech for class because my foot does not taste so good. Good night and thanks for explaining things. Next semester I will tackle 1 law class then maybe I will be able to teach you all something. My first Law class will be about Constitution Law.
Michelle~~Age is just a number. It does not bother me if someone reminds me that I am old. You can be 50 and act 80 or like a two-year old. Some people are afraid of getting older. To tell you the truth, it can be the best time of one's life.
Enjoy your youth! When I was 17 years young, I was dating the man I married two years later. Thank God we did not have computers and Zimmermans back then. Had they been in existence , I had much better things to keep my mind occupied so I doubt that I would have ever entered the blogosphere. Even now, I wish someone would have smacked my fingers when I logged in for the first time four years ago. I really liked the forum that I moderated back in 1998 to 2001...
Good luck with your future endeavors, Michelle. Make them count.
Dave, you mentioned Marissa Alexander in your article. In one or two of his interviews, GZ said that he did not know whether he shot Trayvon. What he described was immediately getting on Trayvon's back to restrain him. So, I was thinking about the Alexander case where she shot no one, but was sentenced to 20 yrs. Since GZ showed no interest in finding out where the bullet went, I am wondering if the prosecutors can add that to jury instructions as a lesser charge. Actually that would put him behind bars for 20 yrs without a finding of guilt for 2nd degree murder. Your thoughts?
[As far as the law is concerned, Xena, he killed someone with a gun. He can cry all he wants about not intending to do that, but the law is the law. He pulled his gun and shot a guy. For that matter, he's said a lot of things that turned out not to be true, so it's meaningless. Under Florida law, the prosecutor in this case is the only person eligible to waive the mandatory minimum, and that's not going to happen. He's either going to go away for at least 25 years or he's going to walk, because I see no kind of plea deal on the horizon.]
GM all
Age is a state of mind over matter. If you don't mind it don't matter. Don't remember where that came from. If my Lord is willing I'll be 75 next February,I don't however,plan on growing up anytime soon.
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.
[Good morning to you, Tommy's Mom! Considering all my options, I don't mind aging and, you're right, growing older doesn't have much to do with growing up. I guess I'll stick with the Peter Pan Principle. Age is an illusion and mirrors lie, at this age I've learned how to fly, no time to think about when I'll die.
Yes, the public persona. That's the I person on the outside. The me person is what's inside you.
Snoopy LOL! I did not mean you were old!! I just thought eventually people would not point out your errors. My great grandfather was great to have around. I learned a lot from him. Hopefully I will live a very long life so I know as much as he did. The older the better, the older people have a lot more knowledge than us kids.
I plan on waiting to get married until I finish college and buy a house. Meg is married, pregnant and finishing her last year of college. I am sort of lazy, so that would be to much work for me. Plus they do not make guys like they use to, they are immature a lot longer these days. I do apologize if you thought I was implying you were old. My mom says you are as old as you feel. Guess that's why she is still 30.
It seems like when I try to communicate a thought it comes out wrong. I should stick to the case and not venture into off topic communications so I do not offend anyone. My Mom would be upset if she thought I was being disrespectful to anyone here. Have a great Labor Day!
Xena~~If Zimmerman were to try and cop a plea, I would imagine it will be after the self-defense immunity evidentiary. The state may offer Z a plea and if he refuses, I can see Angela Corey making an argument so he will get the max if he is found guilty. You can offer to plea when the jury is out deliberating.
Tommy's Mom~~my birthday is in Feb too, the 20th to be exact. I always figured that I was the oldest in here but you have me beat by a year. I have no intentions of ever acting my age. I will be like Michelle and stay a 'kid.' I think of Michelle as a 'young lady' even if she keeps reminding me that she is a kid or a teenager.
Michelle~~You said, Plus they do not make guys like they use to, they are immature a lot longer these days. So have you been sizing up a few old dudes and making comparisons? There are many old farts hanging around out there that would love to show off a young thing hanging on to their arm. lol
PS, the best time to give birth to a baby is Labor Day!
I am not afraid of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens.
Seniors Texting Code
Old Codger
I think this old dog has learned a new trick.. it is amazing what html can accomplish...woot woot
SnoopySleuth
Well I finally beat someone at something.
I am not afraid of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens. Cute! Where's one for ya.
Where there's a will, I want to be in it.
Tommy's Mom~~ oh this is fun...lol I love that kinda will. Bet you can't beat this one...
I waited table at The Last Supper.
Old Majors never die, only their privates.
We can blame this all on Michelle... "it's the age thing." lol
No not sizing up old dudes, YUCK! Just my sister's husband acts like a 3 year old. He has 6 brothers that act the same way. The guys in my college classes act immature too. Apparently I am going to be an aunt to a baby Boy, again yuck! Prayed for a niece. I need to get use to being called me a young lady, most everyone I know calls me a kid or girl. Other names too but we will not discuss those names.
Snoopy I am terrified to die. My great grandfather died sort of peacefully. Although his breathing the last day or two freaked me out. It sounded like a scarey baby rattle or something like that. Not sure how to explain it but he would breathe and on the way out it shook. When my sisters died it was not peaceful, they hurt a lot. My uncle suffered too. It is to scarey. You never know if you are going to have a quick death or a death that makes you hurt in pain. So I prefer to just not die.
Michelle~~I think you should focus on all the good things around you now instead of looking back. When you get old and gray, you will have had a lot of practice in from 'dying' your hair. The only dying you should be thinking about now is what color to choose. Your mother probably already told you that, behind the scenes, I was helping her prepare for your grandfather's passing. The sound you heard is very normal, it is known as the death rattle. Your g/father was getting too weak to clear his throat.
Let's move on to more pleasant things.... Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life. Get out and have some fun and make the most of it. Thousands of opportunities are out there...seek and ye shall find. Now scram....lol
Michelle said...No not sizing up old dudes, YUCK! Just my sister's husband acts like a 3 year old. He has 6 brothers that act the same way.
Question~ is she married to one of the seven Dwarfs?
LOL you would think but no, his family is Catholic also. I do not think about the past all the time. When I brought up the past it was in reply to your comment about dying. You said you weren't afraid. I am, for the reasons I listed. My Mom won't let me dye my hair. No tattoos, piercings except my ears she is mean. I do have to scram though, school work is due. It's been fun chatting with you see you later in the week.
Aww Ecossie you beat me to the punch I was all ready to tell Michelle about John Lennon being a CO-founder of the Beatles (remember he and Paul knew each other way before they were a band and wrote songs together from age 14-15)
And Snoop you did it again you always say what I'm thinking....i.e. I think from the very beginning GZ was getting advice from papa bear and his friends. I also believe that George did know a few things through osmosis from his dad and perhaps picked up some of it through the college courses he took. George is sly and shrewd and very calculating but in no way is he a smart man-boy. He is extremely stupid because (well besides murdering a child for no reason - you have to pretty dumb to think you could hide money and a passport from the court) he doesn't see that his lies are too many and too far from reality - there's too much evidence that contradicts his fairy tale.
He;s also a really bad actor - nothing he says comes close to looking sincere. (especially the fake apology) I said it before and I'll say it again he and his wife are Grifters and they are so used to getting their way they don't realize they're dealing with a whole new bigger and much wiser crowd now. Their arrogance is their biggest mistake - they actually believe they're doing a good job playing the victim.
Nan - From the beginning I was very impressed with DeeDee. She is young and grieving and I'm sure she was very nervous, thats why its hard to understand her at times. But she loved Trayvon and she knew him well - THATS very apparant. She comes across honest and sweet. And I sure hope the DA puts her on the stand along with Trayvon's friends, brothers and sister who will all testify about his sweet nature and positive attitude. How he was the go-to guy when you were having a bad day and how he loved his mother's cooking and joked about staying at home forever because of it! How he never minded when he had to babysit and was NEVER violent nor had a bad temper. Even some of his teachers said he was a happy kid.
Also can't wait to hear what the ex-girlfriend has to say - especially about the parents. They have a reputation of being a very nasty family.....big surprise George turned out the way he did.
DREW PETERSON VERDICT IS IN!!!!! Hi Dave. Not sure if you ever posted on this nut case of a man, but do you have any thoughts on what the verdict will be. I'm waiting with baited breath watching HLN
SNOOPY; Hi friend. I sure do miss those comical nights. Now that it's FALL perhaps we can get some booties shakin again. It's been one of those summers, where the weather was either too hot to type and the only reprieve was a glass of white wine. sigh, I wondered if you ever commented on the Drew Peterson trial? I am just so happy to see him get the final chop. I just want to chat about it. Any thoughts? I have a legal question if I might ask it. How did they get Stacey's Lawyer to testify what she said in her meeting with him, regarding her divorce. I thought there was a code of Client Attorney privledge? I know it was the Defense who brought two witnesses to the stand, which got statements about Kathleen's murder into the court. Apparently, Stacey said that Drew came home the night of Kathleen's demise and washed his clothes with another woman's clothing. He tried to coach her (Stacey), on what to say to the cops, because they would be coming to ask questions. Wow, isn't life strange that these two women were arch enemies when it came to having this stinko in their life, but Stacey actually brought justice to Kathleen. WOW
You two great friends of mine. It's so heartwarming to read your comments, as they always have a thought or thousand to think about. This is a big question. How come I don't get your commnents sent to my email inbox?? I get everything that Michelle posts but not Snoopy's or yours Dave. This is most disturbing because I probably have missed anything you said to me back??? Oy it's not in my junk pile either. Very strange. Love you both. P.S. I always click notify me of followup comments too.