Zimmerman: Let's Pester Lester. Lester? Make Him Fester
Monday, August 13, 2012 at 2:43PM 
There are two schools of thought now, since the press conference held by George Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara. In it, he announced that a writ of prohibition will be filed at the appellate level against Judge Lester. This will stop everything in its tracks, including Zimmerman’s desire to leave Seminole County.
The judge can do one of two things. He can acquiesce by stepping down, washing his hands of the mess, or he can stick to his guns and fight it like he said he would be willing to do in his order denying the recusal motion. Personally, I would fight it, but my reasons are selfish. Make Zimmerman and O’Mara squirm. Delay this mess and keep Zimmerman bottled up in Seminole County — precisely where he doesn’t want to be. After all, O’Mara did say that his client “really has to live as a hermit, unfortunately.”
He said the poor boy is living in fear and running out of money. Great! Add it all up and it’s nowhere near the split second of fear Trayvon Martin felt while staring down the barrel of a gun.
I’m going to go over the writ with a fine-tooth comb when it is published. I will add my findings here or on a new post, but just remember one thing that O’Mara acknowledged when asked. He said that he thinks Lester is a fair judge. That in response when questioned about retribution if he’s denied the writ and remains on the bench. In my opinion, it contradicts the basis of the writ. Which one is he, Mr. O’Mara? Fair or unfair? You speak with forked tongue, methinks.
This is what I wrote on my August 5 post. It explains the writ of prohibition and what happens from this point on:
THE WRIT OF PROHIBITION
According to The Florida Bar Journal, “A writ of prohibition enables an appellate court to prevent a lower tribunal from further exercising jurisdiction in an action. Generally, it cannot be used to remedy an act that has already happened.” Whew! Relief, right? It’s not quite that easy.
While a petition for writ of prohibition “is generally used to challenge the denial of a motion to disqualify the judge of the lower tribunal,” it is also “the appropriate method for forcing a lower tribunal, including an administrative agency, to dismiss a matter for lack of jurisdiction.”
In his order, Judge Lester did leave open the option of argument at the appellate level to establish whether the motion to recuse him was the first or second motion to dismiss the trial judge, but I wouldn’t bet the farm that the higher court would rule Zimmerman’s way. As a matter of fact, that’s not even close to being the crux of the perplexing quandary he’s in. It’s…
FLORIDA SUPREME COURT RULE 9.310.
Let’s just say that, pursuant to Florida Rule of Appellate Procedure 9.310:
RULE 9.310. STAY PENDING REVIEW
(a) Application. Except as provided by general law and in subdivision (b) of this rule, a party seeking to stay a final or non-final order pending review shall file a motion in the lower tribunal, which shall have continuing jurisdiction, in its discretion, to grant, modify, or deny such relief. A stay pending review may be conditioned on the posting of a good and sufficient bond, other conditions, or both.
(b) deals with exceptions, such as money judgments and public officials. (c) pertains to bonds, (d) with sureties, and (e) with duration, and none of them apply. But if you move on to (f), and combine it with (a), we hit pay dirt.
(f) Review. Review of orders entered by lower tribunals under this rule shall be by the court on motion.
What’s that mean? It’s quite simple, actually. Remember O’Mara’s words to Pipitone, “seeking a stay of all other matters…”?
That’s right! In order for the defense to seek that stay, they must go through the same court, “which shall have continuing jurisdiction, in its discretion, to grant, modify, or deny such relief.” “Review of orders entered by lower tribunals under this rule shall be by the court on motion” actually seals the deal. A stay motion would be filed in Lester’s court and he would have to move to agree to it. Would he? Oh, probably, but in the meantime, like I said, the show must go on. While filing an appeal, the defense can soldier on with their motions and the judge can continue to write orders. Unless. of course, the judge rules on a stay. In which case, poor, poor George will stay in Seminole County for months and months to come, gnawing at the bracelet that will stay on his ankle.
One final thought on this story… Mr. O’Mara said that we are in unity that George Zimmerman’s nose was broken. NO SIR, IT WAS NOT! SHOW ME THE PROOF!
Dave Knechel | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Eighteenth Circuit Court, Florida Second District Court of Appeal, George Zimmerman, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Seminole County Courthouse, Slimm v. Zimm, Trayvon Martin, Writ of Prohibition, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (50)
Dave, my comments should have been on this post instead of last one, so I am short on words now. Anyway, see you have plenty to keep you busy and with Nan11's help, people like me do not have to go distance to find info. All very nice.
I am a little uneasy at the confidence O'Mara shows but that is what they do! Also I wonder if he was doing a little over sympathizing for George to cause us unsympathetic's to get riled and he could use it to add to his "poor little hermit's" terrible circumstance.
Dave: And O'Mara had the nerve to say Georgie wasn't doing so well? Gosh, does he think we care? I would like to ask him how he thinks Trayvon is doing right about now.
Trayvon never got to take his girl to a prom; Trayvon never got to reach for any of his dreams. George Zimmerman is the cause of that, and always will be.
What about that immunity for self-defense; as opposed to immunity due to the 'stand-your-ground' law? Can anyone charged with 2nd degree murder ask for an immunity hearing?
I think Judge Lester might have been expecting this, so maybe he intends to 'stand-his-ground', too.
The following link is from the Orlando Sentinel. This is a somewhat controversial article due to my quoted statement below.
Plenty of people are saying the part bolded by me is incorrect. Apparently that charge was not made in the original charge court documents.
So, I join the others in not understanding why the Sentinel would bring that up. : - (
Orlando Sentinel | George Zimmerman's lawyer to appeal judge's decision to stay on case
Quote: "But prosecutors allege that Zimmerman is guilty of racial profiling, that he spotted a black teenager in his neighborhood, suspected he was about to commit a crime, began following him then murdered him."
Thanks for the new post, btw. I totally appreciate the title.
[More in due time... BUT! The Orlando Sentinel is totally wrong! The State has only claimed that George Zimmerman is guilty of CRIMINAL PROFILING and that is it! The Sentinel needs to retract that statement because it is blatantly false!]
Thank you, Dave. That pleases me for you to say that.
As I anxiously await "more in due time"; I went back and read the article at a more leisurely pace and I think I do see what he is getting at a little better.
The quote below is from the same article linked in my comment above.
Quote: "Stand your ground", O'Mara said, is a misnomer in this case. It implies that Zimmerman had the ability to retreat but chose not to.
Dave ~~
Video of O'Mara's presser today
I think that O'Mara is increasingly creating a credibility problem for himself. The one thing that stuck out today was this incessant claim that Zimmerman is not safe in Seminole County. I just do not think that people are searching for him and the more he makes an ass out of himself, the more people feel like the courts will do the right things andconvict him
http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/,
Hey Dave, Great post! Had to share Leatherman's view on the latest press conference. He doesn't hold back.
Dave~~ I took this little snippet from WFTV. If this ever came about, I don't think our Vicky would be able to contain her excitement. I feel like I know Judge Dickey real well now thanks to that link you posted a while back. lol
“It’s on the fence as to whether the Fifth District Court of Appeal is going to order Judge Lester removed from the case,” said WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer. “However, I wouldn't be surprised because of the language we saw in the judge's order setting bond.”
If Lester is kicked off the case, Judge Debra Nelson or Judge Alan Dickey could take over. Both have experience with high-profile cases.
At about 4:17 minutes in:
Quote: Well, you know, we mentioned last week we are definitely going to have one. My concern with even calling it a ‘Stand-Your-Ground’ hearing is we need to be—sort of—more realistic. I have said from day one, we need to wait until all the evidence comes out; and that has—sort of—become my mantra of sorts.
We now have a certain amount of that evidence out. Not all of it yet—we have probably 80/90 per cent of State’s evidence. We have not presented a lot of our evidence. We are still doing a lot of evidence gathering. But, you know, people look at ‘Stand-Your-Ground’; and, they immediately think someone is standing there with deadly force—be it a gun or a weapon—and having the opportunity to back up; but, not having the need to under the Statute.
I think the facts suggest, in this case, that what probably happened was my client was reacting to having his nose broken; which—I think—is probably undisputed that he had a broken nose, now. And that he reacted to that by screaming out for help for 40 seconds—and then he got his head still hit. So, he wasn’t in a position, I think, where there was any suggestion that he could retreat—which he was allowed to do under the Statute—was to react without retreating.
But, I think the facts seem to support that though we have a ‘Stand-Your-Ground’ immunity hearing—what this really is, is a simple self-defense immunity hearing. It really, I think, needs to be—sort of—reconstructed, to be what really meets the facts. And what meets the facts are: Did he act reasonably and in self-defense? He didn’t have an opportunity to retreat if he was on his back—and I think that is the way we need to—sort of—refocus what the hearing is going to be about.
Well, did you all listen to what Mr. Mark O’Mara is saying? Albeit in his classy, eloquent, mannerly way—but, did you all hear it? We need to ‘reconstruct’ and ‘refocus.’
I believe he is suggesting that it is perfectly within the letter of the law for his client to hunt down and shoot a 17 year old youth—at intermediate range—because that youth broke the nose of his client!
Never mind that said youth happened to be in fear for his own life—and with good reason as is evidenced by the outcome.
Well, this is Earth to Mr. O’Mara! Earth to Mr. O’Mara—many people still dispute the ‘broken nose’ story of your client. Many people. So, where is your proof? Granted you have a few people who reported to have heard your client ‘grunting’ at the police station that night—but that was probably caused by your client’s nose/throat condition that causes those little pustules to form in that area and is also responsible for his stinky breath.
And where is your proof that your client was on his back? Only one officer thoughtfully tried to confirm this—he didn’t bother with pictures to document the wet back or the back with grass on it.
The bullet that pierced Trayvon’s chest was fired at intermediate range. How could an intermediate distance—12 to 18 inches—be achieved if Trayvon was on top of George, and George was lying on his back in the grass, with his left hand pulling Trayvon’s clothing out and down? Because the bullet was fired at point blank range to Trayvon’s clothing, and entered at a higher position on the clothing than it did on Trayvon’s chest.
His client screamed for help for 40 seconds. What? Georgie with the gun screamed for help for 40 seconds? While the terrified kid with candy in his pocket did what? There is no evidence on the hands of Trayvon Martin to suggest, in any way, he even touched George Zimmerman.
What you have is a terrified kid fighting desperately for his life—pushing away with all his might—trying to flee. Trying to escape from a ‘creepy’ guy with a gun. And the ‘creepy’ guy—your client, Mr. O’Mara—fired that gun and ended that young man’s life. Your ‘creepy’ client, Mr. O’Mara that could have stayed in his vehicle until law enforcement arrived!
Shame on your client, Mr. O’Mara; and shame on any laws that would justify his actions.
Porky3100: I so agree!
Georgie's over active paranoia must be making things very difficult for O'Mara.
Right about now, I think it looks good on him.
moo
Mr. Zimmerman is truly a blessed man. He shoots a kid for no other reason than the kid defended himself. Think back to when you were barely 17, put your feet in Trayvon's shoes. Now fight, fight for your life! What do you see? Do you see the barrel of the gun? Trayvon did. Now he is dead and this lying, money mooching piece of shite gets to appeal to a higher court! Trayvon did not get that luxury, nope Zimmerman decided his fate.
Mr. Zimmerman is blessed because he is breathing, eating, driving, talking on his cell phone, lying, spending money that he earned murdering a child and now he has the nerve to ask another Judge to remove the Judge he lied to. I called that blessed because he still can. He can do whatever he wants (except for the few things Judge Lester put an end to) and Trayvon is done, he can do no more.
IMO instead of out stalking his neighbors guest he should have been home studying. Thanks for letting me add my 2 cents even though it is a emotional rant rather than the legal rant.
Michelle: It is so nice to hear from you.
No apologies for your 'rant' are required by me. Heck, not only do I agree with everything you said and second it--I have been known to rant myself. : - )
Honestly when you said: Quote: "What do you see? Do you see the barrel of the gun? Trayvon did."--I got goosebumps.
Thank you for your very insightful comment.
It looks like O'Mara plans on filing his motion to allow Georgie to skip Seminole County asap. Humph, Georgie must be really in the paranoid doldrums.
He will probably need his meds increased. It couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy!
I so hope Judge Lester gets to deny that motion. (Where is that cheesy Mr. Green smiley when I need it?)
WFTV | Zimmerman's attorney asks higher court to remove judge from case
Quote: In the meantime, O'Mara said he expects to file a motion asking that Zimmerman be allowed to leave Seminole County for safety reasons, because he can't afford to keep paying for security.
I'm really studying. I have clear ideas of what I'm going to say and it will have to be on a new post, but I may have to offer it in two parts, depending on what the writ says.
Meanwhile, I do have a PUBLIC MESSAGE for all concerned. Tomorrow marks the first anniversary of the day the blogging world lost knight Owl. Please keep her family in your thoughts and prayers. If you need her name in order to do that, please e-mail me. There is a memorial on my right sidebar that's been there for awhile. It will remain.
Nan exactly who is he going to ask to grant the motion for Mr. Zimmerman to leave the county? It is confusing, how does this work? If the appeal is to boot the Judge off the case doesn't every thing stand still until the higher court rules?
Curious if anyone knows why Mr. Zimmerman wants to leave the county? If someone were going to harm him wouldn't they have done it by now? He has been out for a couple of months and no one has harmed him. What is he afraid of? It looks as if Mr. Zimmerman wants to be judged in a court of law and not on the streets. It is kind of funny. All I can think of is that stupid thing Mom says: Do as I say not as I do.
Thanks Nan, you always make me smile. It is easy for me to put my feet in Trayvon's shoes. For the most part my friends and I all think a like so it is not hard for me to feel the fear Trayvon probably felt. I am sure mine feeling is nothing close to the actual fear but I get it. If any of that made sense. :)
Michelle: Oh, yes. Your comments make a great deal of sense.
Now Dave will probably laugh at my pathetic attempt to explain this; but, in this case, Judge Lester still has the right to 'rule' due to the circumstances. Since he has refused to step down, as the Judge, he can still act on his case.
Recently, he has issued orders. Perhaps with this new 'writ' of O'Mara's, everything will come to a stand still; but, yet, from the WFTV article--it appears that O'Mara will file that motion and Judge Lester will hear it and respond with authority.
I really need to go back and read over Dave's previous posts--I know there is one of those dang clauses in there somewhere.
It is confusing, though. Believe me, you are not alone in any confusion over this.
Revised to add: My deepest sympathy goes out to Knight Owl's family and her little kitty. I will add my prayers to the many.
This is a little off-topic, but it is 'Part 2' of the 'You Gotta Problem Homie?' series by ThisisIceman360.
LOL, I need a break after today's presser.
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Aug 13, 2012 by ThisIsIceman360 | You Gotta Problem Homie? Part 2 (Extended Version)
To be honest, I seriously doubt the defense has proof that even one witness saw Trayvon break George's nose. I mean, actually SAW it happen. The State can argue that the injuries are more consistent with a fall of some kind, and the scratches on the back of his head were from banging into that tree. Will any witness testify that they are positive TM was on top of GZ? If so, are there any witnesses that will say it was too dark to tell? Remember, this is for the judge to decide, and I don't care who the judge is when it comes to George's credibility. If he gets a new judge, will that one be blind to the fact that George is a liar? I don't think so.
I don't know what GZ expects to gain with a new judge. Are they allowed to watch the news? Are they allowed to discuss the case among themselves? Of course they are, and since Lester is one of the most respected judges on the bench, just like Strickland was, what does GZ want the new judge to do? Kiss his wittle boo boo and send him home? No harm done, Georgie.
I'm sorry, but I just don't get it, and it's heartbreaking.
CF News 13 | George Zimmerman's lawyer appeals to remove judge
Quote: Our legal analyst, Central Florida attorney Joy Ragan, said O'Mara does not think Zimmerman can get a fair trial under Lester, because his client has damaged credibility.
"That's why Mr. O'Mara is going to these extraordinary measures to get the judge off the case," said Ragan. "I think that he really believes that the 'Stand Your Ground' motion is damaged by what his client has done."
This legal analyst goes on to state that she does not think the defense will win their motion. Mr. Sheaffer, though, thinks they have a good chance.
So, I think you are in good company tonight, Mr. Knechel.
Elsewhere, I read that the material evidence in a self defense 'immunity' hearing should be positively undisputed--otherwise the case should go before a jury.
Try as I might--I cannot see how the evidence in this case is positively undisputed.
One never knows, though. One just never knows.
Ha! I guess that is what keeps life interesting--for those of us who must carry on.
I wonder if O'Mara's managed to convince his egotistical client to keep his mouth shut. That Hannity interview did a world of damage. Just look at those life-threatening wounds on the back of Zimmerman's head. He must have been bashed on the sidewalk more than a dozen times. Look at all that blood from Zimmerman's nose on Trayvon's hands! More proof! Not to mention the scrapes, scratches and cuts on Trayvon's hands from all the punishing blows he was divvying out. WOW! Zimmerman sure has him a good reason to ask for a dismissal, huh?
What is he thinking, nan11? It's interesting, alright. Very interesting.
George expects me to believe that all he could do was lie there on his back like a flaccid weenie. He couldn’t punch, kick, scratch, gouge, rake, wrench, bitch slap, box ears, jab throat, head butt, groin grab, titty twister, bite, hair pull nothing
George may have been yelling but Trayvon was screaming
I find it chilling how he even turns down requests for assistance to Trayvon. No just help me restrain him he says as he presses his obese ass down on a dying child and whines cause the EMTs had the audacity to treat Trayvon’s sucking chest wound over his knicks
What a pathetic phantasmal liar
Judges don’t work in a vacuum if they can’t lay aside preconceived notions or biases and rule on the facts and the law, how can they expect jurors to do the same O_o
My first question is-how much did that cost for them to do a 40 page document with 500-600 pages of evidence? And now MOM is saying this is a typical self defense? Why was there now evidence on Trayvon's body of a scuffle, no DNA on his hands-it just does not add up! And then we can go on and on about George creating all this trouble for himself. And we are supposed to feel bad that A) he killed an unarmed child 2) he got his nose broken (wink wink) 3) he got his credit card bills paid off 4) he doesnt have to work 5) and he has to live as a hermit!
Video of O'Mara's presser today,O'Mara says Trayvon was on top of GZ if that's true how did TM land on his stomach with his hands under his body as he was found?
Buying time, that's all he's doing. I think O'Mara might just be caught between a rock and a hard place with his client. As time goes by I'm thinking more highly of MOM and less and less (if that's possible) of GZ. Obviously, GZ is telling what him what he wants to happen or is stating his displeasure so loud or whiney that O'Mara's advice on matters just doesn't hit home. So now whiney George wants another judge off the case. I'm reminded of your list of judges you did for the CA case when they were switching judges. Are those two mentioned above more likely to be pro defense? It seems like he wants to just get rid of judges until they come to one he likes. I hope the high court sticks with Lester. I think that man has given good advice so far. So he used up all of poor George's money... that's what he raised it for isn't it- and he LIED to the court... Lester was supposed to just let that go? Now he's almost broke again with only 10,000 or so. I've had the feeling all along that the Zimmermans weren't just hiding money from the court but also hiding it from the attorney. I can just hear it... we'll have to pay about 150,000 for the defense then we'll have the rest to live on. Now the well is almost dried up and all he's doing is whining again. Gives me a headache.
ConnieFl: Yes, it gives me a headache, too.
O'Mara has filed his huge 'writ' this morning, but it is not available to the public yet.
Here is an article from the Sentinel naming the three judges who will be deciding Judge Lester's fate.
Orlando Sentinel | Three-judge panel named in George Zimmerman appeal"
Quote: "The three appeals court judges who must decide whether or not murder suspect George Zimmerman deserves a new trial judge were named today.
{snipped}
The Orlando judges are Alan Lawson and Jay Cohen. The one from Brevard is Kerry Evander."
Conniefl~~great comment and I couldn't agree with you more. I thought O'Mara would make his exit after all the deception about the money transfers and hiding it from Mark as well. It seems that Mark is not a quitter and will represent Z until the bitter end. Does O'Mara believe in his heart of hearts that Z is guilty as charged? Of course he does but someone has to be Z's defense. I think Mark's goal is to get the charge reduced from Second-degree murder to Manslaughter if and when this case goes to trial.
I do not believe that Z will gain immunity on self-defense but O'Mara is almost obligated to go forward with having the mini trial and yes, filing the appeal to the supreme court to try and get Lester off the bench is strategy and a risky move but it must be done. Regardless of who is on the bench, I do not believe Z will come out smelling like a rose. In fact, I do not expect the appeals court will make Judge Lester recuse himself.
During the presser O'Mara held yesterday, he estimated there to be approx $60,000 in the fund account. Of that, there was $20,000 owing in outstanding debts. When asked by one of the reporters how much money Mark had rec'd thus far, he said, "zero." The donations are just trickling in now and I put this down to Z's appearance on the Hannity show saying he had no regrets and it being "God's plan" did not go over very well.
Dave~~I am going to need your assistance in trying to figure out why Mark is going for the Self-defense immunity in lieu of the SYG immunity. I poured over a lot of info last evening but unfortunately little sunk in to the old noggin. Here are a couple of links that may be helpful.
Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Self-Defense Law
There are 30 pages in pdf in the next one....
Deadly Combinations: How Self-
Defense Laws Pairing Immunity with a
Presumption of Fear Allow Criminals
to “Get Away with Murder”
PETITION FOR WRIT OF PROHIBITION
The appendix can be found HERE
I will do my best to answer everything. Right now, I've got to go to a lab for blood work. I will return. There's a lot to read in them there documents from O'Mara.
Dave ~~I just finished reading the Petition For Writ of Probhibition and will tell you one thing, from a layperson's point of view, it is potent. O'Mara did not leave one stone unturned. I think that my mind has been changed and the appellate court may just grant it. I notice Mark included the release of the 151 phone calls and the interview of Witness #9 ( the cousin who supposedly was sexually fondled by Z). A judge can not be recused on those two things but they were added for good measure. The state had agreed with the defense they should not be released yet the court went ahead and made them public. Lots of food for thought.
[The judge sided with the media attorneys based on Florida's liberal sunshine law. We saw the same thing in the Anthony case. This writ is about bias. O'Mara's throwing the kitchen sink in that document.]
Orlando Sentinel | George Zimmerman's lawyer: Judge must go because of 'gratuitous, disparaging remarks'
Quote: "They signaled that they may move quickly by on Tuesday ordering prosecutors to file paperwork in the next 10 days, offering their opinion on whether Lester should be removed."
I was out most of the day and then I forgot it was election day, so I had to go back out to vote. By the way, Jeff Aston beat Lawson Lamar and will be the new state attorney. Congratulations to him. Meanwhile, I believe I will fall asleep reading O'Mara's documents...
Lots to absorb.
I need to put up a "WARNING " for the following video, due to language content. If you can overlook that, it's good for a little chuckle. The video producer is frustrated with the lawyering, me thinks.
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Aug 14, 2012 by stateoftheinternet | George Zimmerman 's Lawyer Mark O'mara Makes 'Factual Errors' in his Appeal Motion
Now, this video is a very good 'refersher' on this case. The video 'producer' just concertrates on the evidence released--no conspiracies theories, or anything. I hope you all give it a listen if you have time.
YouTube VIDEO | Published on Aug 14, 2012 by Teeslaw | New Improved George Zimmerman Re-enactment vs. The World
And I hear congrats go to Mr. Jeff Ashton, tonight. ┌( ಠ‿ಠ)┘
[Yeah... good for Jeff. I'll have to watch the videos on my iPad, but I'm looking forward to them. They sound like they're right up my alley. Factual errors... you gotta love it.]
Well, these aren't my favorite people in this video--but I must admit the discussion is somewhat interesting:
Fox News VIDEO | America Live w/Megan Kelly | Zimmerman's lawyers won't argue 'Stand Your Ground'
I read through that order twice. Maybe I missed it. Nowhere did I see Mark O'Mara mention this is the second judge that's been on the case, the first one having been ousted also. I gathered the reasoning behind Lester's denial was that the section of the law that applied to him had already been used once, and that this just might be a second go round for them on similar grounds. Yes, the first one was recused because she was related to someone on the case, but they used that section, plus one other one for the recusal (d?) .. my memory is going here. In Lester's recusal refusal he mentioned that section and his whether they could use it again or not. Doesn't seem to be in this writ from O'Mara.
Also, O'Mara seems to be skewing the facts in his defendant's favor, which is natural. Some things are missing like the context of those phone prison calls Lester was upset about, and the reason for him thinking GZ was manipulating the system. The mention of TM's girlfriend's testimony isn't mentioned either. He's naturally giving a very biased presentation to those 3 judges.
I hope like all get out they come back and said "nope" you used up your two strikes with that first judge, and can't use that (d?) again. (I'm going to have to look that one up again.- can't remember crap anymore)
I watched that youtube video by Teeslaw that Nan just put up. It occurred to me listening to GZ saying TM was acting funny and looking around, etc.. It was probably because he was using an earbud on his phone to talk to his girlfriend. That makes anyone look and act "wierd". How many people have you passed who had an earbud in and on the phone that you didn't at least give them a second look? I used to try to answer our janitor at work when he would ask a question until I realized it wasn't me he was talking to but a phone. He was talking to his girlfriend about GZ and looking around for him because HE was acting odd and following him. He (GZ) deserved a punch or two for terrorizing that kid. .. ok i'm off of here.. I keep feeling that soap box edging it's way under my feet again.
[I read the order once, but I did make notations. I've got to go over everything with a fine tooth comb in order to discern what the writ entails compared to the state's rebuttal after the motion to recuse was filed, plus the judge's notes on his order denying the defense motion. That's what you're referring to. There's a lot involved, and I don't want to just put up a quick post. Obviously, the defense feels strongly about this and I need to get my fingers dirty.
Yes, O'Mara is skewing the facts, and because his argument seems weak, he's brought other factors into it. The appellate judges should see right through that. He's definitely making it a lopsided fight, and I think the judges will rule on the merits alone. Whether O'Mara used up his two judges is hard to predict. Had Reckseidler refused to recuse herself, this would not be an argument because he would have appealed her decision instead. Oh well.
With Occifer ZZZimmerman on the trail, everyone looked suspicious. I wonder if he threatened to have his cousin arrested for lewd and lascivious behavior. That could be the reason why she kept her mouth shut all those years.]
Dave: You know, late yesterday I noticed that you had added to your current post.
Your last statement jumped out at me: I quote: "Mr. O’Mara said that we are in unity that George Zimmerman’s nose was broken. NO SIR, IT WAS NOT! SHOW ME THE PROOF!"
I am so thrilled to hear you say that! I thought I was the only one 'in your house'--or one of the few--who supported that line of thinking. I had no idea that you felt that way, too.
Unfortunately, I do not think there is proof of that--one way or the other. Zimmerman might have been an extremely 'slow' student, but he was smart enough to refuse any treatment that would have stood as proof.
It is extremely likely that the physician’s assistant, whom he allowed to look at it the next day; only put 'broken nose' on the form becuse she needed to 'classify' it for insurance purposes.
Trayvon Martin died alone on a cold, dark, rainy night. His pleas for help were silenced.
The shooter further pillaged Trayvon's soul by climbing on top of him and mauling his body.
Today, he claims Trayvon's desperate cries for help as his own.
Law enforcement cared so little for Trayvon Martin that night that they threw an iced tea can on top of his body and left him in an even colder and darker place all night long--not even contemplating that someone loved Trayvon Martin, and would miss him dearly.
Bless this child, and bless his parents. And bless all the people who stand--and will continue to stand--in solidarity with him and for him.
In the end, we may not see justice for Trayvon Martin--but, we will know that we all stood as one and tried.
[Unfortunately, a fracture is a break and in the nose, it means a break in the bony structure. Snoopy straightened me out on that one. However, it was a diagnosis made without an x-ray, so I suppose the nurse practitioner could be questioned on the stand and a speculative response could then be ascertained. At the same time, with no blood or foreign DNA on Trayvon's hands, how can the defense prove that the boy was the one who fractured it?
I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that Occifer ZZZimmerman is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's learned the fine, fine art of lying and manipulation. If he gets off this charge, I hope he's haunted for the rest of his life. At least we'll have the satisfaction of knowing that he'll never amount to anything. He'll forever remain a social pariah. A loser going in and a loser going out.]
Dave~~Zimmerman was diagnosed with a fractured nose. A fractured nose is the same as a broken nose. No x'rays are required to diagnose a broken nose. I believe the medical report will be introduced into evidence. If you like, I can put a source to back up what I just said.
[No need to put up a link. I read it, but I do think an x-ray would have proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. If Trayvon did it, why no blood on his hands? That's a very important question, especially since, after breaking it and seeing evidence of blood, ZZZimmerman stated that Trayvon held his mouth and nose shut. After the break.]
Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law by Jacksonville criminal defense attorney, Troy J. Webber
Sub-Heading: The Use of Deadly Force, Self-Defense, and Prosecutorial Immunity
My ‘quick’ summation: (Ha, ha—I could be way off; so don't hesitate to correct me.)
The SYG statute makes changes to the common law by accepting the need to NOT retreat, and reducing the ‘proof of reasonable fear’ to a ‘presumption of reasonable fear’. The scope of this statute also encompasses ’criminal immunity and prosecution for civil action.'
A ‘true immunity’ from criminal prosecution or ‘prosecutorial immunity’ must be established by weighing factual disputes. A motion for a pre-trial hearing must be filed and granted. A hearing will be then held, whereby the defense will have the ‘burden of proof’—but only a preponderance of proof is required, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, the part above which I have bolded, is possibly why Mr. O’Mara willingly concedes that George did not retreat because he could not—as Trayvon was supposedly on top of Zimmerman—but everything else in the SYG statute applies.
The same right to use deadly force because Georgie felt his life was in danger: And the same right to prosecutorial and civil immunity--under the Statute--will be maintained by Georgie..
And I also suspect that by admitting that Zimmerman could not retreat, it will limit (or O’Mara is going to at least try to limit), the amount of ‘factual’ evidence the State can introduce at the hearing.
Okay. Now, here is where it begins to get interesting:
Quote: The justifications for use of force will also not apply where the evidence establishes that the defendant initially provoked violence against him- or herself.
This is what Mr. O’Mara will need to prove, I guess:
Quote: To claim self-defense in such a scenario, Section 776.041 requires the defendant to demonstrate that he or she used every reasonable means short of deadly force to extricate him- or herself from the situation, and that the degree of force used by the other person (the initial non-aggressor) led the defendant to reasonably believe that he or she was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.
Alternatively, a defendant who is an initial aggressor may claim self-defense if: (1) in good faith, he or she withdrew from physical contact, (2) clearly indicated to the other person that he or she desired to withdraw and terminate the use of force, and (3) despite the communication and withdrawal, the other person continued or resumed the use of force. See Section 776.041(2)(b), Florida Statutes.
Dave~~Why no blood on Trayvon's hands? It was raining that night and the grass would have been saturated pending how hard it rained. Trayvon was found lying face down with his hands underneath him. Blood/ DNA may have been all washed off leaving no traces. As per some witnesses, including the cops, Z's nose was bleeding.
[Hmm, Snoopy... "Trayvon was found lying face down with his hands underneath him." Underneath him... All the more reason to think that blood would have been found on his hands. At least trace amounts. Plus, the undersides of his hands were not exposed to rain. I think we should all agree that there was blood coming from GZ's nose.
"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding," paramedic Michael Brandy wrote about Zimmerman's injuries in the report.
Read more: Evidence in the George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin case released to the public ]
Stop the presses for Off Topic Bombshell News
George Anthony went to Ashton's headquarters to shake his hand and congratulate him.... I bet Cindy put the fista cuffs to him when he got back home. woot woot
Yeah, I saw that earlier. Channel 6 had an interview with Ashton and he explained how close he worked with George to prepare him for what the defense planned to do to him.
Jeff Ashton talks about his congratulations from George Anthony ]
Dave~~Once Z got from under Trayvon after he shot him, he manipulated the body and tucked T's hands underneath him. Remember George was seen on top of T's back... he was not extending T's arms out to the side because he thought T may still be alive. Z staged the body to fit with his story. T may have even been on his knees when he was shot close range. JMO
[In his reenactment the next day, Z explicitly explained how he spread T's arms out, and that's the way he left them. It's captured on video. This is directly from Z, not from a neighbor. No neighbor that I am aware of has come forward to say anything about Z touching T's arms one way or another. We know what Z said is not true because T's arms were tucked straight beneath his dead body. That's plain and simple and straight from the horse's mouth. Also, if he manipulated the body, he must have dragged it another 20-30 feet south of where he said the fight took place. What I'd like to know, too, is how Z tumbled forward, as per his reenactment, after he was punched in the nose. Anyone hit like that is going to fall in the direction of the punch, not into it. The law of physics says that he would have fallen in the direction of the inertia. In this case, backwards.]
Dave~~I can see Trayvon on his knees pleading for help. Z had the gun and was in control. Z grabbed T by the shirt and stuck the gun close to his chest and fired. This is why the bullet holes in T's shirt and hoodie do not match up. Z had to have been tugging on T's clothing or rammed the barrel of the gun into T's chest and pushing up his clothes. JMO
[Absolutely! T was fighting for his life. There was no way Z's account would have worked. T's knees and thighs would have prohibited Z from getting to his gun. They blocked it. Z already had the gun out and that's what the fight was all about.]
Dave~~I am not 100% convinced Z was on the bottom when he fired the shot. I am more inclined to think that T was trying to wrestle the gun away from Z and they ended up on the ground at some point. It sure looks like Z left his vehicle, gun loaded and he was the one who cornered Trayvon. T put up a courageous fight for his life. Z's injuries came about while T tried to disarm Z.
I have studied this case and hate to draw premature conclusions but I really think what I have stated is pretty close to the truth. Will jurors see it that way? That is anyone's guess.
[I concur. 100%. There was a rumble, tumble fight going on and that would explain Z's back. Obviously, the fight started around the T or had worked it's way up to that area before heading south again. Witnesses heard running, screaming, shuffling and footsteps. That does not sound like a cold cock punch, with T immediately pouncing on Z. Z's story is too full of holes, and O'Mara is aware of it. He's playing parlor games right now. Delay, regroup, change strategy, regroup, delay, and hope for the best. Z's story is not adding up and his lawyers know it. They want to go with the few seconds of one on top of the other, BANG, and forget everything else about who was chasing who and who initiated it.]
Dave: Rene Stutzman from the Orlando Sentinel (iirc) is 'tweeting' that the 'Appeals court moving is fast' and that "This order shall not stay proceedings in the lower tribunal..."
So, I suppose that means that Judge Lester can still issue 'orders'--for example, Mr. O'Mara may soon file the motion requesting that Georgie be allowed to leave Seminole County for safer grounds--and Judge Lester may reply one way or the other, of course.
I'm not seeing any write-ups to that effect, though. I checked on all the 'local' sites.
[I don't know how quickly the appellate court is moving, nan11, and I question who would be leaking anything at that level; but I will say that, in order to stay proceedings, O'Mara would have to file a motion to stay. Since he hasn't, Judge Lester will proceed as usual. If the defense decides to file a motion, it would have to do so with Lester because he is still the presiding judge. That sort of thing and any new motions remain in his court.]
I don't think O'Mara will be in any big rush to file the motion for Zimmerman to leave Seminole County. Judge Lester already suggested Z was a possible flight risk. JMO
[No, LOL, I don't think so, either. I think he kinda said as much at the last press conference, too. Poor George will have to wait a bit longer.]
Dave~~me again. I hope that I do not drive you and everyone crazy. I can see the fight ( a few shoves) moving along the sidewalk with Z pursuing Trayvon. Z whips the gun out of the holster in his waistband. The last thing Z wanted to do was shoot Trayvon in the back as it would have been game over. "Stop or I'll shoot." I believe it got to the point that T turned toward Z in his flight to get away and tried to wrestle the gun away from him all the while screaming for help. Was it ever proven that the word 'help' was used or was T begging Z not to shoot? I pick the latter. We do not know if Z said to T as he was trying to run away, "Stop or I'll shoot." This would give cause for T to stop and then try to get the gun away from Z.
During the 911 call, the dispatcher asked George his name.. Z-i-m-m-e-r-m-a-n, was the reply. You could tell by Z's wavering voice he was pumping adrenaline. At that instance, there was no stopping Z, like a cougar, he was out for the kill. I apologize for being so graphic.
[You could very well be right, Snoopy. I think he was screaming help, plus a general agony yell, knowing that he was facing impending death.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Z was chasing down T like he was a big game hunter. He was on a mission from God. Well, in his own mind, anyway.]
Snoopy I am sure this link will be messed up but before the 911 operator talks it sounds like someone says I'm begging. It is weird because the dispatcher has not even spoke yet. I agree with the rest of your comment though.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68870555/News/911-call:-yelling-&-gunshot-heard-in-background
You have to listen closely. Maybe I am crazy.
Michelle~~I have been sitting on the fence re this case for quite some time and just trying to analyze and ponder some of the evidence. I can't tell you how many times I put myself in Zimmerman's place and then alternated and became Trayon on that fatal night. I tried to create the scenario over and over in my mind. Just call it an old lady's intuition but everything I wrote above, I really believe in my heart of hearts. I don't think we will ever know the truth of what really happened but let's pray there will be justice. BTW, thanks for the link.
You're welcome. I could be wrong about what I think I hear but if I did it hear I'm begging you, why would Mr. Zimmerman say that? I believe within 30 seconds of those screams you hear the gun shot. Maybe less time. This case has made everyone emotional. I know I have been. Maybe a little defensive because I see it as a kid who did nothing wrong per the police officers report and yet many adults are still calling him a thug. It just seems so disrespectful to talk bad of the dead.
Dave ~~this animated video is in three parts.. it is lengthy but well worth it.. it is the best one I have watched thus far and it is chilling... I put my screen on full. Part 2 will be displayed after Part 1 and so on to Part 3...
Trayvon Martin Shooting Animated Timeline
[Thank you, Snoopy.]