Sanford Police release Zimmerman timeline
Monday, May 21, 2012 at 1:12PM The Orlando Sentinel published a precise timeline of events leading up to Trayvon Martin’s death. Released with the document dump last week, it shows what George Zimmerman doing just prior to the shooting. In less than two minutes from the time Zimmerman ended his call with the dispatcher, Trayvon was shot dead.
1911:12 - Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person
1913:19 - Zimmerman relays that suspicious person is running from him
1913:36 - Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following suspicious person
1913:36 - Dispatcher advises Zimmerman “Okay; we don’t need you to do that”
1915:23 - Approximate time call with Zimmerman ends
1916:43 - 911 call placed by (blacked out name) where Zimmerman is heard screaming for help
1917:20 - Shot fired; screams from Zimmerman cease
1917:40 - Officer T. Smith arrives on scene
1919:43 - Officer T. Smith locates and places Zimmerman in custody.
Source: Orlando Sentinel, Rene Stutzman
Dave Knechel | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Florida’s Government in the Sunshine, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, State Attorney Angela Corey, State Attorney's Office, Trayvon Martin, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (144)
For Porky3100 (& anyone else somewhat "new" here)-
YES, there really were death threats. Dave managed to attract a few interesting obsessives and Snoopy, too, defending him! The archives from, say, 2-3 years ago should be sent to some psychiatric study group.
Now, lookie at what I see on Yahoo this morning:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html
Gee, whiz- these people saw stuff and they're all confused about what happened, no wonder we are.
Molly K. It did not work for this woman.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47386946/ns/local_news-jacksonville_fl/t/woman-sentenced-years-firing-shot/
Karen C~~I mentioned before that I considered the witness statements 'excited utterances'. I can't see them being allowed at the trial, if there is a trial. I cannot see the prosecution being able to pick and choose among all the differing statements. O'Mara will make mincemeat of them. He gets to depose the witnesses and no doubt they will come up with another story altogether. A witness can repeat what Zimmerman said that nite but I don't think they are qualified to assess his demeanor. Maybe someone can put them all under hypnosis eh? lol
I wonder if Crump talked to the witnesses. Did I hear right that he interviewed the girlfriend before De La Rionda had a chance to??
Crump was the one who (through the parents- they pursued the cell phone records- not the cops!) found her at all- the PD never bothered initially. Gee, you might think it would be important to find out what the main ear-witness might have to say, huh? So far as I'm concerned (moo) Crump has done his job as advocate for TM and the parents very, very well. He was the one who had to get out there and draw attention to this mess to begin with. And, so far, I can't criticize any move he's made, because w/o the national media, black-oriented media, and, yes, the marchers, you and I would never have heard about this. He's not responsible for the wilder fringe elements and the craziness they stir up.
I think the stories changing hurt both. However I think some said what they meant the first night but officers said well the guy screaming is okay, so they then assume Zimmerman screamed. The investigation I believe was tainted because they trusted this guy before they really knew Trayvon had done nothing wrong according to the footage at 7/11. He went where he said he was going and came back. The thing that kills me with some of the people who think Zimmerman had every right have no idea that this shooting happened at 7 in the evening. What IF a the bullet had missed his shot and he killed a 5 year old, would those same people still blame Trayvon? IMO yes.
I do not think anyone here is racist but I do think so many people think Zimmerman did a good thing because of Trayvon's color. Teenagers are a mixed bad some good some bad. I find it terribly sad a good one will not get to live his dream and if you think he is a bad kid well then I am terribly sad he did not get to grow up to be a better adult than he was as a kid.
Porky, I am aware of that case. Melissa Harris-Perry covered it. Unbelievable that she got 20 years. If the Zimmerman shooting had taken place in an unpopulated area, there would be no witness reports and no 911 tapes, only Z's word, forensics, etc. It seems that the SYG law is a get out of jail free card.
Snoopy, Crump did talk to "DeeDee" before she met with investigators. She is only 16, and initially, her parents did not want her to testify. What is the legal meaning of, "excited utterances"?
I agree that Crump has done a great job, Karen. He seems like a very good person, and clearly he cares deeply about Trayvon and his parents.
When this story first broke I deeply suspected that Zimmerman had a relationship with the Sanford Police. It would appear that the answer has come to fruition.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html
MollyK~~Do you remember the conflict of Casey's defense trying to throw up Cindy's excited utterance re the 911 call? I googled the following as it is easier to explain....
spontaneous exclamation n. a sudden statement caused by the speaker having seen a surprising, startling or shocking event, (such as an accident or a death), or having suffered an injury. Even though the person who made the spontaneous exclamation is not available (such as he/she is dead or missing), a person who heard the exclamation may testify about it as an exception to the rule against "hearsay" evidence. The reason is that such an exclamation lacks planning and is assumed to have the ring of truth to it. Examples: "Chauncey shot me," "my leg is broken," "the blue Chevrolet hit me." (See: hearsay)
Thanks for the explanation, Snoopy. I did not follow the Casey Anthony trial, and saw relatively little coverage.
It seems to me that there is a huge difference between raining down blows MMA style and pinning someone to the ground (changing statements of witness "John"). If he changed his story this much, can we believe anything he has said? Is he the only witness who testified that Trayvon was on top?
This case has definitely stirred up a lot of emotion. The only person who knows what transpired that evening is Goerge Zimmerman, and even his perception of events are clouded by his personal judgement, biases and a need to justify what appears to be irrational behavior.
There is one thing I do know, with certainty regarding discussions of late on Dave's Blog, (beside that fact that this tragedy should not have happened), is that Snoopy is not one to immediately jump to conclusions before carefully examining all sides of an issue. Granted, she can at times seem bullheaded, but her passion for and dedication to finding the truth is unflappable. And I respect her for that, among many other aspects of her character.
Unfortunately, the truth in this case at this point can't be arrived at with complete certainty due to the fact that one key wittness is not available...Trayvon. Therefore, the jury will have to carefully evaluate the circumstantial evidence, and weigh it against what appears to be a poorly written law.
Clearly, most of the contributors here believe GZ is guilty of murder, but that should not preclude respectful discussion over aspects of the case that might lead one to an alternate conclusion. Healthy debate requires that both sides of a topic are carefully weighed. Otherwise, many important aspects of a case can be missed. Believe me, both the prosecutors and defense attorneys are looking at the evidence from both a guilty and not guilty point of view.
By the way, hi Dave, I hope all is going well with your Dad. - VK
Precise my butt. This is taken from p. 6 of Chris Serino's police report, and is WAY off. It mistakes the time of the first log entry by the operator as the start time of the call. But the call started at the 'connect time' of 19:09:34. This is confirmed by the actual police call log.SPD event number 20120571656, which contains a log entry "SUBJ NOW RUNNING TOWARDS BACK ENTRANCE OF COMPLEX" at 19:11:59. If the call started at 19:09:34, the Zimmerman first used the descriptor "back" at 19:11:51. Makes sense then it takes the operator 8 seconds to type that sentence and hit "return." If the call begins at 19:11:12, then Zimmerman doesn't use the word "back" until 19:13:29, but somehow the police operator manages to type in a computer-time-stamped record of that a minte and a half before it happens! Serino's faulty timeline is typical of the hackwork of the SPD, and the Sentinal's failure to fact-check this against the physical evidence is typical of the horrid journalism that surrrounds this case.
Sempre. I can appreciate your post and too believe that Snoopy is of good character as I do with just about everyone here. I must say though that the way that you have framed some of the recent heated exchanges do not reflect the actual problem here. The debate has largely become a philosophical issue more so than a raw factual issue. While I can speak for no one other than myself, I can tell you that from my perspective Zimmerman was dead wrong ( no pun) to pursue this kid unannounced with a loaded weapon. I do not believe that anyone here disputes that premise.
There is a contingent here and elsewhere who who places less relevance on whether Zimmerman exited the truck armed and in pursuit and believe that the salient point is which of these people struck the other first. Therein lies the legal dispute.
But it is the very juxtaposition of this philosophical vs. legal context that we must sort out. Some of us believe that laws, (particularly laws that govern when society gives permission for people to kill others) must always serve the greater good. In that sense, I do not see the benefit to society when grown men may without provocation or reason engage in an armed pursuit of a minor, and if the law permits these actions, then truly the law has failed us.
So debate, vigorous debate can almost be expected here given the dual dynamics of this debate. Will it get heated? Absolutely. All I ask though is when putting out information that we are held accountable for what we put out.
As to Snoopy, I agree that she had made and continues to make tremendous contributions and as yo may guess, I can be pretty bull headed too :)
On the other side of the coin...
George Zimmerman called the Sanford police department lazy more than a year before he shot Trayvon Martin to death.
The Miami Herald first reported details from the January 2011 community meeting Wednesday. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the tape from the meeting. In a 90-second speech, Zimmerman says he witnessed "disgusting" behavior by officers when he was part of a ride along program.
Zimmerman asked the mayor at the time to look into what he called cover-ups and corruption within the department. Zimmerman also wanted then-Sanford police chief Brian Tooley's pension to be repealed.
Tooley retired early when faced with criticism that Sanford police dragged its feet in arresting the son of a police lieutenant on charges of knocking out a homeless black man.
Zimmerman complained about Sanford police in 2011
Porky3100~~It seems that Z was not too buddy buddies with Sanford PD...
Here is George Zimmeman on tape...January 2011
George Zimmerman blasts Sanford Police
He was not buddy buddy with some of the Police but it would seem that he had relationships with some of the officers His complimentary letter to the chief suggests that he may have been sucking up to the higher ups. But Snoopy let me ask you this. Taken at face value, is his feeling that there are some lazy officers on the force consistent with his feeling the need to get there and catch Travon because the police wont do anything? What do you think?
Other questions. Why did the former police chief claim to have never heard of Zimmerman when clearly he and Zimmerman had exchanged emails. Clearly he was a pain in the ass and they had to know who he was.
Speaking of pains in the butt, Porky3100, have you ever thought of going into politics? You don't need to answer that.
Yes, I will agree that Zimmerman may have wanted to show the Sanford PD that he would be more qualified for the job by pointing out their mistakes. There is always the possibility that he was playing a 'cop' on the nite of Feb 26th. It has crossed my mind.
Surprised you, did I?
Porky, I think we can safely assume that whatever their motivation the police department failed to carefully evaluate the crime the night it occurred. If you ask me, not only did they take GZs word that Trayvon did not belong in the neighborhood, they did nothing to confirm that notion. How much trouble would it have been to call all members of the neighborhood watch to assist them with a door to door canvas of the African American residents of the community? Had that been done, they would have had an entirely different situation to deal with. And although I have made every effort to keep race out of the equation, I honestly believe if they had been dealing with a white victim, under the same circumstances, they would have canvassed the neighborhood, rather than allowing a family to wake up to the realization their son had not made it home the night before.
As to your earlier reply to me, my first response went poof, so I'll give a condensed version. I am in complete agreement with you regarding the law that GZ is hiding behind. I am completely appalled that any legislative body would pass a law that is so vague that it opens the door for each individual to self determine what constitutes a threat of great bodily injury. And would allow an aggressor to somehow become a victim, with the right to use lethal force. Unfortunately, opposition to the law doesn't change the fact that GZ might pull off using his advance knowledge of it to avoid a conviction, and that there are potential jurors out there who might ignore the obvious.
Snoopy. Not a politician. I cannot carry a poker face lol. And no I am not surprised at all by your response. I knew that the voice of reason was in there somewhere :)
Sempre. I doubt that this will go away if h gets off in the Florida courts. Recall that the Feds are sitting back with a possible trump card and it need not be that they need to charge him with a hate crime. They could always charge him with violating Travon's civil rights. I think in that case, any police malfeasance mighr hurt Zimmerman. I know they did it in New Orleans and LA. But maybe Dave can get a lawyerly type opinion on that. I do know that the feds are watching this very closely though.
Snoopy, I think in his twisted mind, GZ viewed himself as the only line of defense between the local residents and the evasive renegades out to destroy their American Dream. After all, he had given local LE ample opportunity to solve the crime wave that had plagued the neighborhood, But, to no avail. The ***** always got away. But not this time. He had one in his sights, and there was no way he was going to be foiled again by that darn back gate. He was he'll bent on showing SPD how to do their job. The problem is, he was too big a woos to handle the situation like a real "man". Instead, he chose to become the very threat he claimed he was protecting society from.
Sempre Invistus~~Now what you just said made a great deal of sense. It seems that Z was getting frustrated with Sanford PD and it was like the song, "I'll Handle This Job All By Myself."
PS...you did not make any sense upthread when you said I was bullheaded but you did very well on the other nice things you said about me to which I agree with you.
Porky, I hope it doesn't come to the need for the Feds to step in. I guess we will have to wait and see. Surely, the citizens of Florida will render a verdict against the "but, I was getting my butt kicked by the victim" defense. But, I won't hold my breath.
LOL Snoops, I figured I'd venture out of the sand box for a bit, but along with my other opinions, I had to make sure you realize I know as well as anyone, you are a stubborn, backwoods Canadian woman.
At least I left your dung beetles at home.
Sempre~~I think O'Mara will file a motion before Aug 8th and try to get immunity for Zimmerman on SYG. I cannot see him not trying for it. This will be a mini trial before the judge. You wanna believe that both Corey and De La Rionda will fight tooth and nails against it.
Now Judge Kenneth Lester, from what I hear is a sensible judge and is his own man and maybe he cannot be swayed in his decisions by any outside influences. If this goes to a jury trial, what is the deal, find Z guilty or we will sic the Feds on him?
You know Porky, the more I think about this situation, the angrier I become at myself for even trying to find any excus for GZ claiming self defense. When it comes right down to it, there is no excuse. GZ made the decision to exercise lethal force against a young man who did nothing more than stand up to an armed bully. Unfortunately, GZ was unwilling to suffer the natural consequences of underestimating his prey. He is one unwilling to accept the natural consequences of an error of judgement that resulted in the death of a 17 year old.
I stated on Snoopy's blog a few weeks back that there are many young men sitting in prison who shot someone to end a fist fight they were losing. How is it now, that SYG laws grant protection to individuals in the same situation? GZ should try and find comfort in knowing that had Trayvon beaten him to death, he would have been the one arrested and charged with murder. His life is not more important than Trayvon's. A real man would plead guilty, if for no other reason than to atone for taking the life of an innocent child who he placed in a no win situation.
So today I listened to Snoopy's links of the 911 calls. Oh my gosh heart breaking! I do not believe for a second those screams belonged to GZ. The reason I say that is because looking at the photos that has been released that pathway is dark. The screams are coming loud and fast. You hear the shot and then nothing. We all know the outcome of that fatal shot but witnesses said GZ stepped on T's back or pushed on it to keep him down. At that time GZ did not know T was dead. Why is he not screaming for help? For all he knows T could have rolled over and punched him in his lying mouth/nose again.
As a Mom it is hard to imagine the fear TM must have felt in the final minutes of his life. Does anyone have a reason why GZ stopped screaming at that very moment?
Snoopy, I don't think O'Mara will file that motion, because if he does, GZ will be forced to testify. If they lose, then the prosecution will have a record of GZs defense strategy and will be able to use it to prepare their case. I believe O'Mara will ask for the charges to be dismissed based upon insuffecient evidence, and if denied they will use an affirmative defense at trial.
I sincerely hope the judge would not rule in favor of GZ in a STG hearing. If he did, it would prevent Trayvon's family from filing a civil case against him. I would hate to see any money left over from the fundraising efforts, used to further benefit the Zimmerman family. Or any money GZ might garner as the poster boy for SYG unencumbered by a civil judgement. I love the fact that GZ apologized to the family in court. That my friend can be used against him in a civil action.
It will be interesting to see what the Feds do if GZ is not convicted.
Sempre~~if by chance Z got immunity through the SYG, can the Feds still go after him?
If this case goes to trial, it will become the Brown Paper Bag Trial because all the witnesses will insist on wearing bags over their heads to remain anonymous.
Among the items Duval County Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda wants kept from the public: the results of a test police conducted on Zimmerman the day after he killed Trayvon Martin. The results have already been provided to the court under seal, de la Rionda said.
“Any testing performed and findings in this case have not gained such reliability and scientific recognition as to warrant its admissibility,” he wrote.
Read more here...
Prosecutors in George Zimmerman murder trial want some evidence sealed
Snoopy, could the test have been a lie detector test?
Sempre, I think that you may have accurately described the movie, starring himself, that was playing in Zimmerman's mind. I imagine that he had visions of holding Trayvon at bay with his gun until the police arrived, making him the hero of the neighborhood. Unfortunately, Trayvon did not have the script. (Much speculation here on my part.)
MollyK~~I never heard tell of a voice stress test performed at a police station until I read about this case. I googled and found the following. I hope it is some help...
The Lie Behind the Lie Detector does not address CVSA or other voice stress analysis techniques. However, as I've mentioned before on this message board, the behavioral countermeasures described in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector may be helpful for passing a voice stress analysis "test," too.
The polygraph purports to detect deception by comparing physiological measures as respiration, heart rate and blood volume, and perspiration as an examinee answers a series of questions. Voice stress tests purport to detect deception by analyzing subtle changes in the voice that are imperceptible to the human ear.
Neither voice stress "tests" nor polygraph "tests" have any scientific basis. In both cases, the machine is essentially an interrogational prop used to dupe the gullible into making admissions/confessions. The so-called National Institute of Truth Verification, which markets CVSA, has even admitted in federal court that their device "is not capable of lie detection."
Good find Snoop. They said "tests" s in plural. I wonder what other tests they performed. Very interestng
Porky3100~~neither test would be admissable evidence in court and the results are never made public. I am suprised that the PD told Zimmerman that he passed a voice stress test. I just don't believe they did.
Practically speaking though, voice stress tests are being used more and more, and in a variety of settings, not just LE but in business contexts as well.
KarenC~~I believe that employees are given voice stress tests under certain circumstances??
Yes, although I can't say I personally know anyone who's been subjected to that yet, I have heard of it being done. I do know people who've been poly-ed and I guess it has more to do with the expense of the specialized equipment and training why we haven't seen it catch up yet to polygraphy- if a police dept. already had a polygrapher they used and trusted given budget constraints they probably stick with what's already at hand.
Come to think of it, my employer (a national corporation) has used both techniques when in conflict resolution over firing decisions- when the terminated employee insists on not being at fault and things might go to court... I do know of a co-worker who was terminated and was able to get back his job because of undergoing some test or other and passing. And the known facts originally did not look good for him. If corporate sees an employee maintaining a position of innocence they tend to want to retain that person, where I'm at.
You know, after reading all the posts and hearing and reading other things on this case one scenario just hasn't been brought up to explain the injuries to the back of GZ's head and lack of them to Trayvon's hands. When GZ approached Trayvon and TM said "why are you following me?" - GZ could have reached for Trayvon's arm or approached him threateningly before asking "what are you doing here?". He could have had his gun out or acted threatening enough that TM pushed GZ who then fell onto the sidewalk hitting the back of his head. The nose injury could have happened when he tried to get up. TM might have straddled him and then hit GZ with the bag carrying the tea. After TM had him on the ground straddling him it could have been GZ yelling for help and TM thinking he'd probably get blamed grabbed his tea and had just got it into his pocket when he was shot.
I'm with Maureen. TM was just a kid doing nothing and I truly believe this is going to come back to haunt GZ over and over and over. TM reacted like a scared kid who was being followed would do. From all his calls to 911 it was clear GZ's feeling of self-importance was overrated. He was a little cop wannabe. He wanted to be the one to take down the person responsible for all the b&e's in the area. If he is found not guilty there is nothing to stop him from doing this over and over and over using either self-defense or SYG. If he had done what a neighborhood watch is supposed to do and just reported it and waited 7 minutes.. just think 7 minutes and that kid would be alive.
I do not think that Zimmerman would be a risk to kill again in this manner. I also think that his living are working options are going to be very limited once all is said and done.It will be interesting to see if this young wife stays with him though. Love is one thing but to be attached to someone whose incredible stupidity will forever change their future. She is a nursing student and I just cant imagine a hospital risking the publicity of taking her. She will have some decisions to make. That is for certain.
Damm. Looks like his relationship with the cops had become really cozy a few months before the shooting. Check out the praise emails.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn