Sanford Police release Zimmerman timeline
Monday, May 21, 2012 at 1:12PM The Orlando Sentinel published a precise timeline of events leading up to Trayvon Martin’s death. Released with the document dump last week, it shows what George Zimmerman doing just prior to the shooting. In less than two minutes from the time Zimmerman ended his call with the dispatcher, Trayvon was shot dead.
1911:12 - Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person
1913:19 - Zimmerman relays that suspicious person is running from him
1913:36 - Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following suspicious person
1913:36 - Dispatcher advises Zimmerman “Okay; we don’t need you to do that”
1915:23 - Approximate time call with Zimmerman ends
1916:43 - 911 call placed by (blacked out name) where Zimmerman is heard screaming for help
1917:20 - Shot fired; screams from Zimmerman cease
1917:40 - Officer T. Smith arrives on scene
1919:43 - Officer T. Smith locates and places Zimmerman in custody.
Source: Orlando Sentinel, Rene Stutzman
Dave Knechel | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Florida’s Government in the Sunshine, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, State Attorney Angela Corey, State Attorney's Office, Trayvon Martin, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (144)
Laura~~fists can kill in the matter of seconds. Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that Zimmerman was screaming for help because he did not want to resort to using his gun?
My God Snoopy,
I had taken a break from this place but could not help from responding to the following "points"
"I do not come in and write what I think everyone would like to hear. My comments are based on weighing the evidence as I see it. In other words, I set my emotions to the side and refuse to wear blinders. This is why we have both a prosecution and defense in a court of law."
We are all aware that this will be played out in court but many of us are parents and it pains us to think of a child getting gunned down for no reason. We feel this pain despite any legal "loophole" in the same way that we felt it when it was shown that the killing of Caylee was "legally correct".
But that said, you need to just admit for the sanity of all of us that you are NOT here to seek objectivity but rather to find ways to show that Zimmernan was -legally- justified in this killing. And that's ok because I too will readily admit that I am NOT objective here. Why? Because someones child walked to the store who committed no crime and was shot by an overzealous and responsible adult on that fateful night. Like any parent, I need to see an unequivocal reason why that kid was killed. Period.
"Zimmerman had a history of violence but was he convicted of any of those charges and how long ago did this happen? If we believe that he is still violent, then we do not accept the fact that anyone can be rehabilitated through counselling and/or anger management programs. If that is the case, why bother to have those programs available in the first place if they are waste of time.
Arrest records along with conviction records show a *pattern* of behavior. Most people without issues of anger management do not have multiple documented encounters with law enforcement but in this case former co workers are describing his as a person with clear issues. Additionally, coworkers have described him as a walking HR complaint person. And not to be forgotten are the multitude of 911 calls. Snoopy, together can you see a pattern here? This is someone who is very easily "bothered to say the least but again the totality of his past conduct certainly lends itself to the likely hood of him just losing it that night. Conversely, there is nothing in the record to suggest that Travon has a violent past. Sure, you toss the idea out there but Snoopy I challenge you to provide one iota of credible evidence of the violent past of Travon.
"Trayvon did not have violent tendiencies? How do we know that as a fact? From his parents and relatives after he was deceased? If anything is brought out about his past, we are trying to ruin his reputation? "
See above but in the absence of the documentation from the police or school officials and in light of the digging in the parallel that ensues after his death, no one has come forward to make any first hand claims that Travon was violent. Do you have such evidence Snoopy? And yes, since the issue here is self defense, the -only- relevant part of Travons past is whether he was prone to violence. Thats why these hunting expeditions as to whether he smoked pot of not are such complete red herrings.
"Two individuals were involved in an altercation that resulted in the death of one of them. Since we do not know for sure who the aggressor was when it came to the altercation, we will dig up as much dirt as possible on the one left standing but not the one who is deceased.
No Snoopy not going to let you slip that one in. Had the two been walking, bumped into each other and decided to defend there respective male territory, you would have a point. But that's not what happened. Travon set out to do nothing more than go to the store and back and some man decided that he was up to no good and despite police "suggestions, commands ( you name it) Zimmerman ignored them and pursued an unarmed teen with a loaded weapon.
"Marijuana does not act on everyone the same way. It depends on that person's metabolism as does other drugs/medications. "
Do you have ANY evidence as in scientific papers to correlate violence in casual marijuana smokers? Unless you do, then the above statement is completely inappropriate.
"One other thing, it may suprise you to learn that the prosecution has come to a conclusion that it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help."
I am requesting that you please provide the link and source for this information.
Finally. It should go without saying that the purpose of the law which permits gun owners to carry concealed weapons is to afford a person a method of defense from bodily harm. I submit that following a person with no legitimate reason, giving chase to them, while having no evidence that they present a danger violates the very spirit of the law which allows gun ownership. For that reason , Zimmerman should be punished for his reckless actions, race considerations notwithstanding.
Porky3100~~I respect your opinions and you have every right to take issue with things I have said. This is what this blog is all about. I am also a parent and a grandparent but when I assess evidence and facts, I do not let emotions impede my judgement.
My comments above shall remain in tact until I am shown evidence to make me change my mind. I will also not be producing 'proof' on a silver platter so as to make this an even playing field.
Thank you for your response, Snoopy. I am interested in hearing all points of view, but I would also like to know the support for other views. Many things are possible. It is possible that Trayvon was a violent teen, but I have not seen any credible evidence to support this. I believe that the story about him assaulting a bus driver has been discredited, and I am not aware that there is any confirmation that he was the person in the video of a fight that has been circulating. There has been a concerted effort to smear him. For example, there was a photo that was supposed to have been taken from his Facebook page, that turned out to be of someone else. So I am skeptical of negative information about him until it is shown to be true.
I was not aware that the prosecution believes that the screams were Zimmerman's. Do you say this because of the timeline in the post? The latest that I have heard is that the FBI experts cannot say who was screaming, and the witness who said that it was Zimmerman now says that he doesn't know who it was. He has also changed his description of the fight from Trayvon beating on Zimmerman "MMA style" to Trayvon either hitting Zimmerman or holding him down. At this point, I am not sure that anything he says can be believed.
I have also read that only trace levels of THC were found in Trayvon's body, inconsistent with recent activity. So it seems that he was not under the influence of marijuana on that night.
My attitude, like Porky's, is that a young man went out on an innocent errand and did nothing wrong. He ended up dead. There is something wrong with that, and if the law allows it, there is something wrong with the law. Like Obama, I feel that Trayvon could have been my son. If you focus on physical appearance, then he could not have been my son because my sons' appearance reflect their parents' Irish and German heritage. But he could have been any of several of my sons' friends, wonderful kids who, like my sons, are incapable of violence. When I read about what happened to him, I identify with his mother.
Thank you Molly. You said it a lot nicer than I. As a society we must insist that when an armed adult killed a teen that the reason is crystal clear.
Snoopy if you are going to make claims, don't you think that you have an obligation to back them up with information is requested?
I don't think that either Porky or I are allowing emotions to influence our judgment. If Trayvon's school records had shown several suspensions for fighting, a history of disrespect for authority, etc., then I would be much more willing to believe that he'd started the fight. If Trayvon's father had been lashing out, if his mother had been screaming at Zimmerman, instead of dealing with this horrible situation with grace and extreme calm, I'd me more willing to believe that a child of theirs might be a loose cannon.
I realize that Zimmerman's legal position depends on what happened during a very short time, and that if he had reason to fear for his life, he will be considered innocent no matter how responsible he is morally. On this narrow legal question, I have read two very well-written blogs by seemingly competent lawyers who are very knowledgeable about this case. One of them, masonblue at firedoglake.com, is convinced that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. The other, jeralyn at talkleft.com, has the opposite opinion. What are we laymen to think when the experts disagree?
Porky3100~~I want you to go back and reread my comments. Other than saying that the prosecution came to the conclusion that Zimmerman was the one screaming, will you please point out to me what I claimed to be facts? I used things that are out in the media as examples if you read them correctly.
I will gladly supply the documentation and information to you of my claims if you are willing to comply if I ask the same of you. In this way, we will both be meeting our obligations.
Well if you want to duck the questions that's fine but i did ask at least 4 questions in my post. I'm not here to spoon feed.
Porky3100~ ~ You are not here to spoon feed and that is good because I have already had my evening repast. I took your response to me more of a reprimand than asking relevant questions.
MollyK~~ I totally agree with what you said...My attitude, like Porky's, is that a young man went out on an innocent errand and did nothing wrong. He ended up dead. There is something wrong with that, and if the law allows it, there is something wrong with the law.
Now, since we do not know what really happened, I look at it differently because I want to be fair. I would be inserting a couple of words into part of what you said because we do not know all the facts..
a young man went out on an innocent errand and if he did nothing wrong. He ended up dead.
Molly3100...this is what makes me come across as the bad guy... because all I am doing is trying to seek the truth. Law Enforcement is doing something about this as are the prosecution and the defense. Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder so the proscess of seeking justice has begun.
Maybe he did scream because he did not want to use his gun. I don't know I was not there. I do not believe Trayvon was trying to kill him, nor do I think another 1 minute of him being punched (had Trayvon lived another minute) would have made a difference. Zimmerman did not seek medical treatment until the next day. As far as we know he did not receive stitches and his Xray has yet to be released if his doctor even did an Xray of his nose.
On the same hand without actual proof (voice analysis) Trayvon could have been screaming for his life. Maybe he did not want Zimmerman to use the gun he just pulled on him. Hollering 14 times in 38 seconds for help sounds like he may have been truly terrified that a stranger just pulled a gun on him. I believe if either one of them could go back and change the outcome or the confrontation I believe they would. I especially hope that George would go back, he is the adult the example setter and he imo truly messed up. Maybe I am just sensitive or over protective of the minor children who never get the chance to be the adult they want to be.
The office who wanted to charge Zimmerman for manslaughter put in his report that there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity. I think it is safe to believe him? I am trying to stick to the facts and not be a Mom right now. I kind of like these little document dumps, I can keep up. LOL
I think we all need to just breathe and be grateful we all do not think a like, please.
Laura~~that would mean that Trayvon was not involved in any criminal activity such as break and enter in that neighborhood on the nite he was shot??
Yes. That is how I took it. So in other words Z really should have waited for the police. IF Z did confront T.
The night of the shooting they finger printed T at the scene and nothing came back, he went to the morgue as John Doe. The next day his father id him and then Sanford Law Enforcement contacted Miami L.E. and they verified T had never been arrested. I read that in those released documents too. It is a treasure trove of information. Unlike some other case that had more lies than truths.
Good evening all.
I wonder at what point the gun came out of the holster. I don't think that will ever be established.
I agree with those who blame the stand your ground law for this terrible tragedy. No one wins this. Trayvon is dead. George Zimmerman's life will never be what it was. I do believe that people should be allowed to protect their home and personal property with a gun. I do not think we should be allowed to become self appointed police in our neighborhood and use a gun.
I do not know what happened the night Trayvon died. I don't think he would be dead if Florida didn't have a very ill conceived stand your ground law and if George Zimmerman had left his gun home.
This must have been the video that has since been discredited and it was not Trayvon.
Watch the Trayvon Martin Fight Club Video Before YouTube Pulls It Again
Amber from Maryland~~I couldn't agree with you more or said it better. Thank you, my dear. A little bird told me we should see a new post in here soon....
I agree, too, Amber - you said it perfectly.
Snoopy, I agree that we don't know for sure that Trayvon did nothing wrong that night. There is no evidence that he was committing a crime, and as far as I know not even Zimmerman claims that he was, beyond the vague statement that he was "up to something." We don't know for sure that he didn't start the fight. I hope that more facts are established as time goes on.
One thing that does seem clear is that the area was surprisingly dark that night. I would have thought that a pathway that was in constant use, people walking dogs, etc., and very near the homes would have been well-lighted. None of the witnesses had a clear view. Maybe events were influenced by Trayvon and Zimmerman not being able to see well, too.
Newbie, I think you're right that the critical question is when the gun came out. I think that it was too dark for anyone to have seen this.
Laurali, Even if Trayvon was breaking into a house, Zimmerman still should not have confronted him, according to neighborhood watch precepts.
MollyK~~a person could describe the 911 calls as 'excited utterances'. Dave always maintains that if three people were to witness a car accident, they would have three different accounts of what took place.
MollyK~ no arguments from me. I personally believe the only way a person should be justified in shooting another is on their property or if the other pulls a gun. Otherwise why do we need law enforcement? Just let every Tom, Dick and George take care of the ones who "look" like their up to no good.
I do not like the hoodie being called into question either. I am cold all the time so my light weight go to jacket is a white hoodie. I wear it almost nightly to walk my dog. Makes me a little more cautious now.
Laurali, I wonder if T. Martin had been wearing a white hoodie what would be said....yes that is a sic comment I just made but...
I have tried to imagine GZ walking thru the complex and someone following him or GZ thinking the person behind him was following him on purpose. GZ confronts him? You bet he would and imo, he would not have his gun in the holster. I find it hard to believe that the gun was in that holster when approaching Martin. Of course all of this is my total opinion.....no fact to it. I just cannot picture GZ looking where Martin went without "being prepared". After all, in GZ's mind TM was no more than a hoodlum, looking strange, up to something, and possibly holding a gun (can of tea more than likely)l
Hi Newbie. I think we have met somewhere before. lol
Dave et al... It seems three, if not four of the witnesses have changed their take on what they heard or viewed on the nite of Feb 26th. Their revisions incriminate Zimmerman moreso. Do you think they are reading the blogs? Not only are we influencing potential jurors, we will be accused of swaying the witnesses.
Laurali, If I had a dollar for every hoodie I saw in a week, I'd have enough to take all of us out to dinner! At our local Trader Joe's, the employees wear t-shirts and have hoodies, both with Trader Joe's emblems on them.
IF I had someone following me I would be furious. No doubt I would be the white older girl version of Trayvon. Not kidding, not making light of it. I just would want to protect myself and running would not help, you have to stop and unlock the door at some point.
Snoopy ~ I think some of them were influenced the night of the shooting by L.E. Z said he was hollering. People were scared and they just told them that the person hollering is okay. If IRRC one of the ladies mentioned this during a second interview and I think her statement ended up being 13 pages.
That's right Molly they do wear their hoodies at Trader Joe's I forgot about that. Clothes really should not define the person.
Molly - You nailed it. a young man went out on an innocent errand and did nothing wrong. He ended up dead. There is something wrong with that, and if the law allows it, there is something wrong with the law. I am not black or white, but I would even add that it is pretty sad that we live in a society, sections of which actually condones or empathizes with the killer. IMHO, every sane person should have been idignant at this. If you take away the color of the skin from the equation, it could have been anyone's kid. Is the lack of indignation from the Zimmerman supporters because they are sure that their kid would never get into a situation like this due to the color or their skin or because they would'nt be dressed the way Trayvon was dressed or because their kids would'nt object to an older man stalking them on a dark rainy night and let him have his way with them ?
skalathil, it is impossible to read the minds of those who are supporting Zimmerman, and contributing to his defense fund, but I imagine that a big factor is concern that the outrage felt by those who see the tragedy as you and I do will lead to changes in gun laws. Amber posted her opinion above that without the SYG law, this probably wouldn't have happened. A witness stated that immediately after the shooting, Zimmerman asserted that he shot Trayvon in self-defense. Clearly, he was well aware of the protection that this law could provide.
I am not a supporter of Zimmerman. I am terrified of guns and I would not donate one red cent to Zimmerman's fund.
I do not believe in the Stand Your Ground laws that the US have nor do I believe in people getting permits to carry concealed weapons. I live in a country with strict gun laws and am thankful for that. I refrain from telling another country how I think their laws should be. What is that saying? "When in Rome......"
Snoopy, I was not referring to you, or even thinking of you, when I wrote my last post. I think of you as someone who is looking at both sides and trying to interpret the facts, and to distinguish between what we know and what we think we know. I didn't take skalathil's comment as being about you, either, although of course I can't speak for him/her. Have you seen some of the comments on news stories from people who think Zimmerman did something good, and that Trayvon deserved to die? There are plenty of them.
MollyK~~oh my gosh, I was not thinking of what you said when I responded. Judging by some of my comments, there are those who think I am pro Zimmerman. I wanted to assure them that is not the case. My heart goes out to Trayvon's family but I have to set my emotions aside when I try to analyze the evidence etc.
The Florida carry permit and how you obtain it is what I would call loosey-goosey. The sad thing is the NRA will donate plenty to GZ and will spend whatever is necessary to keep the Florida carry law in place.
Molly - You nailed it. a young man went out on an innocent errand and did nothing wrong. He ended up dead. There is something wrong with that, and if the law allows it, there is something wrong with the law. I am not black or white, but I would even add that it is pretty sad that we live in a society, sections of which actually condones or empathizes with the killer. IMHO, every sane person should have been idignant at this. If you take away the color of the skin from the equation, it could have been anyone's kid. Is the lack of indignation from the Zimmerman supporters because they are sure that their kid would never get into a situation like this due to the color or their skin or because they would'nt be dressed the way Trayvon was dressed or because their kids would'nt object to an older man stalking them on a dark rainy night and let him have his way with them ?
Actually you both nailed it. Thank you
MollyK~~there is no way on God's earth that Trayvon deserved to die...none whatsoever. I found out from blogging and moderating a forum that there are some hateful people in this world. Dave can tell you that both of us got death threats and were badgered to death by bullies who frequented the blogosphere for one purpose and that was to spread hate and create mayhem. This was during the Casey Anthony saga... thank goodness, most of the trouble makers disappeared when she did. Look how many tweets were made in reference to killing Zimmerman so it is not just Trayvon.
Porky3100~~well maybe I don't get much nailed but I do put a few thumb tacks in here and there. lol
Well there is a thin line between playing devils advocate and a complete lack of compassion. The only out for Zimmerman is for the world to believe that Travon is an idiot who just walked up to Zimmerman and commenced beating him to death. It's an easy sell considering our society is not fond of young black men anyway. Thus, it is easy to reduce this to the sterile situation of page one of the law vs page 85.
Fortunately as Molly and a few others have pointed out, Travon could have been any of our kids. Intelligent, warm, family oriented who was just not prepared to be stalked for simply walking to the store.
I continue ot beleive that it was not Travon who made poor choices that night. It was Zimmerna who mad poor choices. And we all know what happens when armed people make poor choices. I weep for Travon and his parents.
Death threats? Ugh! I am glad you both outlasted the bullies.
Sorry I meant to say that fortunately we see a human side in people like Molly, Karen and others
Molly. What death threats?
Porky3100~~If you think I lack compassion, then you don't know me. I am sorry you feel that way.
MollyK~~ yes, there were constant, anonymous death threats via email. They used a proxy email addy and there were also phone calls. This is off topic but I don't think Dave will mind. We had 11 blogs shut down by Wordpress in just a matter of months. They found an article I wrote for a magazine online and got my name and then found my daughter's obituary online and made comments using her name to badger me. If I take flack in here for trying my best to weigh the evidence and discuss this case, it is mild to what I have endured.
Dave... feel free to delete this later...
Snoopy, I don't even know what to say, but most of all, I am so sorry that you lost your daughter. There is nothing worse for a parent. To use this to taunt you is the height (or depth) of cruelty.
The internet has certainly brought a certain slice of humanity out of the woodwork. Before it was technologically possible to anonymously spew poison before millions of people, I doubt that many of us were aware that such people existed in such numbers.
MollyK~~I lost my oldest girl due to a brain aneurysm that ruptured. She was a guard in an all male prison and a wonderful daughter. The void left in a parents heart will never go away. The sad part is that she was in another province and it happened so sudden that I didn't have a chance to hold her hand and say goodbye.
The blogosphere has been a rude awakening in some things but I have conversed with so many good people and correspond with some of them behind the scenes.
Snoopy, my sympathies. How awful to lose your child so suddenly, and not to have a chance to say goodbye.
I, too, have met wonderful people on the internet.
Porky, several posts up, Snoopy mentioned death threats during the Casey Anthony trial.
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla.
Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.
Read more here...
4 witnesses in Trayvon Martin case changed their stories
A few things about this bother me, actually more than a few, but these will do for now.
1. Who gave the school permission to release T's records? It has been my experience that they are confidential, to the point if there is a physical altercation between two students, the parents of each student will not be informed of what the resulting consequences are for the other student.
2. If Zimmerman's head was repeatedly pounded against the sidewalk, there would have been a heck of a lot more damage than what shows on the photos I've seen. The skin on the back of the skull splits easily, and bleeds profusely.
3. Who gave Zimmerman a 'carry permit'???? I am all for a person owning a gun, whether it is a hand gun or a rifle, but what was the reason for him to be carrying the hand gun??? Does his employment put him in danger? If he got the carry permit just because he is a member of a neighborhood watch, that is really scary!
And lastly....why did he get out of his vehicle when he could have called in any 'suspicious activity'?
Just a few things that make me go ..... hmmmmmmmm.
Snoopy. I agree. That was very cruel to use the death of your daughter to get back at you. I know that had to have been and continues to be tough for you. That has to be just an unimaginable feeling
With the news release that four of the "so called" witnesses have changed their story this certainly is turning into a very interesting situation...Should make for a lot of "he said, she said" and who knows who's right...No doubt about it...George fired that gun and it wasn't an ideal situation...
Maureen, that's a good point about the school. I have had the same experience, that school officials are extremely vigilant about confidentiality. I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that Trayvon's parents authorized the release of records, after rumors had been circulating. I couldn't agree more about the injuries on Zimmerman's head not matching his story. As for the gun permit, I am under the impression that it is not necessary to justify a request. In any case, Zimmerman's stated reason for obtaining guns for himself and his wife was that they'd been threatened by a pit bull.
Estee, it is incredible that so many witnesses are changing their stories.
A question for the legal experts: Let's say that I shoot someone, a man who outweighs me by 50 lbs, with no witnesses. I admit to the shooting, but I claim that the other person was much stronger, he said that he would kill me, and I was afraid. Is it up to the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I was not in fear for my life, or is it up to me to prove this?