The National Rally for Justice on behalf of Trayvon Martin
Monday, March 26, 2012 at 5:42PM I attended the rally for Trayvon Martin last Thursday, March 22, in Sanford. I chose to go because I truly believe Trayvon Martin was murdered. I don’t believe George Zimmerman ever set out to kill anyone that day or any other time, but a teenager is dead and he alone is responsible.
The Stand Your Ground law does not give citizens the right to kill on a whim. You cannot be the aggressor and use the law as an excuse. In truth George Zimmerman stalked a child.
Jeffrey Toobin is an attorney, author and legal analyst. On the slate.com Website, Toobin states, “Trayvon saw someone following him, felt threatened, retreated, was still followed, and then was approached by an armed man who had 100 lbs on him. … Because Zimmerman was acting as an aggressor, Trayvon had the right to defend himself by punching, kicking, tackling, etc. Because Zimmerman was acting as the aggressor, his actions cannot be considered self-defense: you can’t initiate and then claim self-defense. The evidence for initiation is there on the 911 tape. … Why is it that a black man cannot be afraid of a white man who follows and approaches him on a street at night?”
A lot of trashtalk is coming out on Trayvon now. Some of it may be true, but it still means nothing to me. Zimmerman may not be guilty of a hate crime, but that doesn’t mean he’s innocent in the 17-year-old’s death.
I will be posting more articles in the coming days, but first, the following is a video I put together of 50 of the 141 photographs that I took at the National Rally for Justice on behalf of Trayvon Martin. Please watch it and if you feel like it, let me know what you think. Right now, I’ve got 50 pictures to post on my blog, but not on my front page. I’ll post a link to it when it’s up.
Dave Knechel | tagged Al Sharpton, Sanford | in Benjamin Crump, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Florida, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, Social/Political, Stand Your Ground, Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (41)
Awesome!
Thank you, Gerri! That's nice of you to say so.
Magnificent!
Thank you, Amber, I really, really appreciate it.
George Zimmerman was advised to NOT FOLLOW, he ignored and continued to pursue Trayvon without cause. In my opinion if anything GZ says about Trayvon attacking him, it never would have happened had GZ not continued to stalk and intimidate. I would say Trayvon was brought to fear for his life, so why not fight for it. For the police to not have arrested Zimmerman simply because he was told to not follow seems very odd, and Zimmerman has been out viewing and studying all the public and media comments about him so he has been able to wrangle and twist everything to his advantage. Love the video and song. (who is singing)
I agree with you, New Puppy. Had Zimmerman heeded the dispatcher's advice, none of this would have happened. That makes him, at least, guilty of manslaughter or, most definitely, stupidity and lacking in any semblance of common sense. I'm not buying into his story yet, either. It's so lopsided, it's like the Titanic. Will it sink?
If Martin pounded Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk, how did he get grass stains on the back of his shirt? He claimed that Martin was coming toward him the 9-1-1 call. If so, why did he tell the dispatcher he was following him? There are things that just don't add up.
Thank you for enjoying the video! The song is titled "Trouble of the World" and it's sung by Mahalia Jackson, who I loved to listen to as a child.
Dave~~you really did a great job making this video. I notice that the music you chose follows right along nicely as each scene is shown. I know how much work goes into making one of these videos and it is certainly appreciated. I am going to link it to my blog, if ya'll don't mind. Thank you so much!!
Thank you, Snoopy, and thank you for all of the links on the first Trayvon post.
There was a gospel choir that sang at the rally, but none of the pictures looked good enough to add to the video. Because of that choir and the preachers who spoke, I felt that the video should have a gospel feel to it. Mahalia Jackson came to mind, but I would have settled for any song that seemed appropriate to me. Then, I listened to this one and I knew I had a winner. The video was structured around the audio. Once I felt the rhythm, everything fell into place.
Thanks for linking it on your blog!
Dave~~I have a question that maybe you or some of your readers can answer. Can you be a witness to an event if you are inside a residence viewing the same through a window? Let's assume someone looked out their window and saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon or vise versa. Would their witness evidence be admissable in a court of law?
I don't see why not, Snoopy. Glass isn't a barrier when looking through it. Where I do see a major problem is looking through it at night. The inside light reflects off it and you can't see something nearly as clearly as you would during the day. Another important (VERY important) factor is the night itself. How clearly can people see when it's dark outside? Why didn't any witnesses attempt to help stop the fight, especially since they knew Zimmerman and he was (supposedly) in such bad trouble?
Nice video~
I liked that woman's tee that said, Its not a black thing-its the right thing. What I heard of the rally on livestream, though, was divisive. It was from the last speaker, I believe. I just hope that wasn't the whole tone. I have also viewed videos that have said Sharpton is a race baiter and irrelevant. He is exploiting this family's tragedy. That was from a couple of black men who said it. Another black man said that this was not racially motivated but he does believe that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon and should be arrested. I think more needs to come out before I say the police were racists in this.
To me, I want to hear fronm the black community because they know better than me what is up with the racism they endure, but not from Sharpton or Jackson whom many in the black community consider as exploiters and in it for themselves. Nor do I want to hear from those like the New Black Panthers or the Spike Lees who want vigilante justice. How hypocritical! Why doesn't our president condemn their words and actions?
New Puppy, Zimmerman was following the kid to see where he was going. He was heading back to his truck when he was attacked. I hope if this attack account is true that we get to see the documentation of it. I lost the article in my mess of opened windows that reported there was a struggle for the gun. There's alot that needs to be brought out in this. Also, it wasn't illegal for Zimmerman to disobey what the operator told him to do and it may only factor in in the trial if Zimmerman is painted as a man who hunted Trayvon down. Another thing, the SYG law does not apply to this case since it only applies to being on one's own property. Zimmerman was not hired to be a security guard, either.
Thanks Sherry , I'm glad you like it.
When that woman walked by me, I had to stop her and ask if I could take a picture. She was more than willing. I thought it was so appropriate in the aftermath of the tragedy. There was a preacher who said some pretty racial things, and it did rile the rowd, but none so overt that they were ready to go on a warpath. In a Sunday sermon in Eatonville, Jesse Jackson “preached” that it is time to start a new war. Perhaps he does not realize that war means armed conflict. Or, perhaps, he does. The New Black Panther party puts a $10,000 bounty on a man's head and that is legal today? What if it were the New White Panthers in a reverse scenario? Oh, silly me, that would be a hate crime. If we expect a two-way street, it must be a two-way street from all paths.
Where the Sanford Police Department went wrong was when they prejudged the incident. Whether it was a race thing or not, they should have treated the location like a crime scene and Zimmerman should have handed over his clothes for testing. They made a terrible mistake and now, a lot of good evidence is lost forever. That's why Martin's death is such a crime. Zimmerman baked the cake and SPD iced it.
All I can say about the New Black Panthers is that they are not affiliated with any other Black Panther organization. They are a small group of foul-mouthed, hypocritical racists who no one pays any attention to. I'd be inclined to say more, but they put no value on human life if white, and I believe that a bounty to them is nothing more than a death sentence. They are perfect examples of a one-way street, and you're right, I heard no condemnation from any of their more “moderate” contemporaries.
I will look for some truth when I see the broken nose for which GZ should have gone to medical care for, that and injury to his head. If these really exist then it's possible he was not arrested because it did then appear to the police that he GZ was attacked. Too bad Trayvon can not give his side of all of it.
If Zimmerman's nose was broken, then I would say that Martin had a right to defend himself. I would never take the word of one person involved in a two person fight. The stories would be as different as night and day, so no matter what he says, it's nothing more than half-truths.
I'm with you on that, New Puppy. : (
George Zimmerman says Trayvon punched him before shooting. Well now, why did GZ get close enough to be punched if such a statement is true. Did GZ announce to Trayvon that he was a police officer, not likely! Also, is Trayvon supposed to have known GZ was a neighborhood watch person?
Or did he fear this man was going to harm him. He feared right didn't he?
In Zimmerman's account, he walked away and Martin came after him. A witness has come forward to corroborate the account, but is it the truth? I think everyone in that community knows Zimmerman and how he works to protect them. That gives him a huge advantage.
Boy, oh boy are you guys right on point...I too believe in Zimmerman's guilt...I was always under the impression that if someone was attacked one should only fight back with equal defense..ie: fists for fists and deadly weapon for deadly weapon...Guess I'm a bit old fashioned or antiquated in my thought...Now defending ones own personal space ie: car, home, place of employment is another matter, especially if a person entered or was doing something illegally...
I believe that this is gonna get ugly...even more than it already has...What would really irk me would be for Senor Baez to get involved...I don't even know if he has an inkling of a notion of doing so, but there is the possibility...
I don't think you're too old or antiquated, Estee. The fact remains, Zimmerman brought a gun to a fight he instigated. He started it by acting like the macho cop he wasn't. No one could ever prove to me that he was just a nice guy wondering what a person he'd never seen was doing there. There's a lot more to it than that. Why carry a gun in his capacity as a neighborhood watch guy if he didn't intend to ever use it? I'm sorry, but you can't chase after someone you said was up to no good and on drugs with nothing to base it on, then, shoot him dead because HE started the fight. Does not compute.
I've thought about Baez taking on the case, but Zimmerman already has a lawyer. Whew!
Hi Dave - Thanks for giving us a birds eye view into another story that has gripped the nation - you always seem to be in the "thick" of things dontcha LOL! I have been busy with other things on a personal level so have not read everything on this case - I know the "skinny" but not all of the facts - I guess my first impression is that a boy was gunned down by a man - just for the color of his skin and the clothes he was wearing - but then you hear Zimmerman's family and friends saying he was not a racist person and then you hear about the trouble with Trayvon and next you know, the spin doctors keep spinning - As far as the news outlets go, I'll do some researching and reading and form my own opinion thank you. I trust you far more than I trust news organizations - isn't that ridiculous considering I don't even "know" you - but seriously - you are a "common" man and have no hidden agenda - that's what I love about your writing! So all of that said - I will make no apologies, I cannot stand Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson - I cannot tolerate their constant "fuel the fire" mentality and their constant whining of inequity and injustice - I can't stand it. Even Al's comment of "we love our children like YOU love your children" - yep, right on Al, gotta separate WE from YOU and drive that fork in yet again. He claims he's against segregation yet he ALWAYS has to separate US versus THEM. I have never wished the world to be rid of any human but he is just a waste of air and a waste of space and honestly, when a person of color can get up and speak and offer solutions instead of stirring the pot - then I'll listen to what they have to say. I wish Trayvon's family peace and my heart hurts for them. Losing a child is one of life's unfairest things I believe. Thanks again for your article - Be well.
Hi LLund – I'm glad you appreciate my bird's eye view, but alas, here I am all over again; jumping from one frying pan into another. Two giant stories – both with sad endings.
I don't think Zimmerman killed Martin based on his skin color, although it may have had something to do with the reason why he chased after him to begin with. Did Zimmerman go out that day with the intent to shoot to kill? No, but for that matter, why did he need a gun to begin with? Does he always pack a pistol when he goes to the grocery store, like he said he was doing when he spotted the teen? Why? Is he Dirty Harry? Does he feel he needs to protect the world from evil? No matter what he says, his actions that day are not the work of your everyday kind of guy, and without that gun, he never would have had the nerve to confront anyone. That gun enabled him. It turned him into a giant, and his prey could have been anyone, black, white, or anything in between. I do not think he is inherently racist at all. Stupid? Yes.
One of the things that struck me funny was the conciliatory tone of most of the speakers at the rally, including Sharpton. At no time did he incite anyone, and all he asked for was a peaceful demonstration. Trust me, I know exactly what you mean in your comment, and we have grown to learn how some of the leadership has revved up the rhetoric, but in this case, Sharpton surprised me.
Even on the Today Show this past weekend, in his interview with Lester Holt, he said all he's asking for is the opportunity to work it through the system instead of what the Sanford Police Department did by sweeping the matter under the rug. Let the legal system sort it out. He was open to the suggestion that, perhaps, it wasn't really a hate crime after all, but still, the city of Sanford has a history of racial tension.
Jesse Jackson, on the other hand, did roll into town espousing a different message – one of war. Although I doubt he meant it, ala, a violent uprising, war is war and war means armed conflict. Perhaps he needs to tone things down a bit because you just can't go around fueling a fire. What I have yet to see is anything physical on the part of activists. They are marching peacefully.
On the issue of race, there are still old wounds that haven't had a chance to heal yet. This is a new injury. Living here in Florida, there are still living hanging trees as reminders of the state's violent and racist past. That leaves doors open to problems from days past. I have never been a black person, obviously, so I can't even begin to know anything about how they feel inside. For instance, I had no idea that black boys in particular are given “The Talk” when young, in order to stay out of harm's way. There is such a thing called racial profiling and we see it more and more in reference to practioners of the Muslim faith, in which it's not necessarily racial in nature, but it's still profiling just the same. Is it necessary? That's a whole different story, but I'm inclined to say yes. One look at the New Black Panthers and what they spew is enough for me.
Anyway, in my opinion, this was caused by Zimmerman. Without a gun, he never would have stood toe-to-toe with anyone, big baby that he is. That's all I'm tring to say now. He brought a gun into a fistfight that never had to happen.
Thanks. I think I'll be covering this one for awhile. I'll try to remain as neutral as possible from here on out, but it still reeks, no matter which direction you look at it.
Dave~~discussing this case is like trying to walk on thin ice. If we reversed the situation and a black Neighbor Watch killed a white man, would it be so very difficult to express our true feelings. With that said, here is another link.
SANFORD, FLA.—The parents of a slain Florida teenager are blaming police for leaking information about their son being suspended for marijuana and details about the fight he had with the shooter that portrayed the teen as the aggressor.
Trayvon Martin attacked me: Shooter
Trayvon Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, and family attorneys said Monday that it was part of an effort to demonize her 17-year-old son who was shot and killed last month by neighbourhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman.
Read entire article here at Source....
Trayvon Martin shooting: Family blames police for leaking info on marijuana suspension, other details
[I understand that dead people are fair game, but still, this was an underage young man. His school record should be treated like a medical record. After all, this never went to a higher level. There was no blemish on his record as a result of the suspension. This was a 17-year-old. Why is it so easy for adults to forget how wild they were at 17? This kid had a real future. He was living in the period we call "today" - unlike us. Who knows what might have been? I was 17 going on infinity once. Who knows what I would have done if a guy like Zimmerman came along. After all, I was invincible back then, right? How quickly we forget. Who nominated Zimmerman to be the next Wyatt Earp? HE DID!]
Dave~~ I do not think this killing was racially motivated but it has been made to be that way. Racism will always be present and it was just festering and waiting to erupt once again. Had Trayvon been a young white male, I think his life would have been snuffed out by an over aggressive Zimmerman.
Zimmerman was NOT a member of the police force. He was packing a semi-automatic that he was not properly trained to use. He had the power in his holster and when his adrenaline reached its peak, there was no stopping him in his pursuit to go after Trayvon. The dispatcher could not persuade Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon. Zimmerman went from the role of being a Neighborhood Watch into being a wanna be police officer. BTW, a police officer would have had better judgement.
Zimmerman has to be held accountable. This was a murder in the second degree if not manslaughter. I am sure that Zimmerman wishes he could turn the clock back. Wouldn't we all like to do that at different times in our lives?
I just wish the blacks would all take a deep breath, step back and let the task force settle this in a peaceful way. I don't believe we will see that happen.
Where I live, we have quite a black population. Other than a skirmish once in awhile, I am proud to say we live in harmony. I do find that the blacks fight more with each other. Years ago we had a well-known black leader from the US pay us a visit. I think his agenda was to stir up dissension. It was the blacks that run him out of town. So you see, if people of all races really want to work together in peace, it can be achieved.
You know, Snoopy, I'm thinking more and more each day that it wasn't racially motivated, too, but I do think there was a tinge of it in the air. I don't know if he would have treated a white teenage boy the same way or not, but given the attire of Trayvon, that might be the straw that broke the camel's back, and that spells racial profiling in my book. I'm in no way agreeing with Geraldo. This is just my take on what could have gone on in Zimmerman's head. Of course, had I ventured into that community when he was “on-duty,” would he have approached me the same way? I seriously doubt it because, today, even cops call me Sir and I haven't been stopped by one in years and years. If there's a profile for middle-aged men on the cusp of seniorhood, I fit it, and for the most part, it doesn't matter what ethnicity, although I would still be apprehensive if a I were black. You see, Zimmerman profiled Martin and he made it clear in his wording on the 9-1-1 tape. “These a*sholes always get away!” What a*sholes? C*ons or punks? Who gave him the right to judge? It was the gun. The gun gave him the big kahunas. Without it, Zimmerman was nothing.
Dave~~are we looking too deeply into the microscope to make this a racial issue? If I were to see a suspicious looking individual running away, black, white or other, I would refer to that person as an a**hole. If that individual was young, I would have added "punk"... We are assuming that Zimmerman was a racist but we do not know what was in his mind. I am on the cusp of ??? being an octogenarian so what the hoot do I know? If I ever spotted you in my neighborhood, Dave, you would never believe how fast this old girl could run in the opposite direction.
Ahhh, Snoopy, but Martin was not running away from anything. He was walking along the sidewalk when this Zimmerman character rolled slowly along in his truck. Even when the teen's girlfriend told him to run, he said no. What we must remember is that Martin had no idea who Zimmerman was, except that he appeared to be stalking him. I don't think Zimmerman is a racist at all now, but I do think he was, at a minimum, stereotyping, and he broke the rules. He had absolutely no right to confront the kid. If he is eventually charged with a hate crime, I won't cheer, because I don't think it will be a victory in court, and I don't think it's a fitting charge. Manslaughter or 2nd-degree murder? You bet. The gun gave him big brass ones.
Trayvon Martin's Mom Is Trying To Trademark Her Son's Name
Document here
I'm not too surprised. This is a means to stop all the pirates from coming out of the woodwork, which they have already done. All those t-shirts I saw at the rally were not sanctioned by the family, and the family made nothing off them. This is the same thing as Cindy, only no one would want to buy a shirt from her.
Your video is beautiful and your article insightful. We all await the resolution of this case.
Thank you, Carol. That's very nice of you, and I will try to keep everyone up-to-date on the situation.
Ahhh, Mark Twain, and to a "Woman with a hammer"??????
And I couldn't resist that little gem, New Puppy. I don't even want to think about a woman with a hammer; not in the context of the Mark Twain quote, anyway. I knew a married couple years ago and during a heated "debate" she picked up one of those giant crystal-looking coffee table ashtrays and threw it at her husband. Luckily, it missed his head by inches, but it sure did put a big hole in the living room wall. Big and deep. Needless to say, that marriage didn't stand the test of time. I don't know what ever happened to her, but he's still alive.
Dave~~I never thought there would come a day when we would ever hear an apology from Geraldo Rivera but here ya go...
“I apologize to anyone offended by what one prominent black conservative called my ‘very practical and potentially life-saving campaign urging black and Hispanic parents not to let their children go around wearing hoodies,’” Rivera wrote in the letter. “[M]y own family and friends believe [that] I have obscured or diverted attention from the principal fact, which is that an unarmed 17-yearold was shot dead by a man who was never seriously investigated by local police. And if that is true, I apologize.”
More here at...
Source
[Well, glory be! I think the hoodie thing is more of a generational gap than anything else; a schism. It was like older people in my day thinking that if young kids listen to The Beatles, they'll do drugs. How absurd, LOL!]
Dave~~ this case is having a domino effect and the following is an example... Where will it end?
Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet
(I am posting less then one percent of the alerts that I am receiving...)
That's like the idiots that threw rocks and tomatoes at the Anthony house, only this is packing the punch of celebrity idiots willing to attack innocent people. Even if Zimmerman's parents or an aunt or any other relative lives there, Spike Lee is sending his "Panther Posse" out for revenge? Remind me to never see another Spike Lee movie.
I added a link to the 50 photos directly underneath the video on the post. They can be enlarged and enlarged again.
Thanks, Dave.
Dave, Your many pictures add to your treasures of good works. May you always find pleasure in your diversified interests you share with us to enjoy and may you always receive positive recognition for all your efforts. Can't convince me it is not possible to find a good man online. God Bless you! NP
Good golly, New Puppy, you're making me blush! Thank you very much. Yes, you can find good men online, and I'm certainly happy you feel that way about me. Fortunately, there are a lot of good women online, too, as I have found out.
This was a very nice surprise. Believe me, I'm humbled. May God Bless you, too!
An interesting piece of info I just read in my CBS News e-mail stated that Mr. Zimmereman had two prior arrests...one for assaulting a police officer and the other one for domestic abuse...Sure looks like he flys off the handle and could have used some anger management classes...I understand he has gone into hiding...Sure hope the authorities turn over every rock and boulder and get to him before the lynch mob...I know it is wrong to condemn in the court of public opinion, but his actions were just WRONG...I'd like to know what injuries Trayvon suffered in addition to the gun shots...Any idea from the autopsy???
Yes, Mr. Zimmerman was not without fault, but now he can add murderer to his portfolio as far as I'm concerned. What kind of idiot totes a gun in the capacity of a neighborhood watch person? Only a cop wannabe. As for the autopsy, nothing has come out yet, but as we all know quite well, we will. There's those persnickety sunshine laws, you know.
Dave ~~you remind me of a sponge soaking up all the sweet talk. It is a rare occasion when you can make a man blush unless he has high blood pressure. Anyhoo, I am not here to tell you how handsome you are so don't get all excited.
I just wanted to let you know that elderly couple have fled their home and are now living in a hotel all due to those tweets giving out their address. What a sin that this is all getting totally out of hand and innocent victims are having to suffer. This couple has a son whose name is similar to George Zimmerman and neither of them are in good health.
Oh what the heck, bye cutie!
Yeah, I saw that and it's a darn shame. Kind of reminds me of all those creeps that wanted George and Cindy executed, too.
For some dumb reason, I don't think I'm "cute" today. Acute is more like it.
Dave~ ~do you think the public will be privy to Trayvon Martn's autopsy results if Zimmerman is not charged?
Ordinarily, yes, but the Feds are involved, and there's a good chance that it will usurp the county. Whoever the judge is, if Zimmerman's charged with a crime, he/she could seal the report if necessary. If not, then yes, it should be released.
No sweet talk here Snoopy, I am quite serious about the man. Trouble is, he is too far away for me to tell him while we are alone. Since I am the ugly one, have no fear!
There is absolutely nothing ugly about you, New Puppy, and don't you forget it! That's the truth!
New Puppy ~~I have decided the time has come to challenge you to a duel, a duel of the wits. If I lose the battle, I didn't want him to begin with. If I win the battle, I shall gladly give you my trophy/. Either way, you lose...LOL And besides, I am uglier than you are.
Well hello your royal cuteness and pretty ladies, lol. Completely agree with yourself and fellow readers Dave that Travyon was murdered. Thanks for the video, very powerful and well done.
Royal cuteness...? Who? Me? WHEEEEEOOOOO! Thank you, Tiffany, I was hoping you'd like the video. Mr. RC has been waiting with bated breath.
This is a very short video but you get a peek at Zimmerman's nose....
Video of Zimmerman after shooting
You're right about that, Snoopy. not a mark or bandage on him. He looks like he's in pretty good shape, too. Thank you for this very important link.
Dave, the pictures are really good and the music was a perfect fit. I appreciate all the time and effort you put into putting the pictures and music together for us. It is nice that so many turned out for the rally.
Thank you so very much, Mary Jo. I feel that I couldn't have chosen a more suitable song if I tried. And you know something else? I felt like I was right at home there. Everyone was very friendly and willing to help me get around. It was a great experience.
Article and Video here....be sure and watch the video before drawing any conclusions...
Zimmerman: Dad worked as magistrate
Look at these statistics re concealed weapons....
State officials on Wednesday said state law forbids them from talking about the concealed weapons permit owned by George Zimmerman, the Sanford neighborhood watch leader who fatally shot Trayvon Martin.
Information about concealed weapons was taken out of the public domain in 2006, so no one knows who has a concealed weapon. But the state does indicate a lot of people are carrying concealed weapons in Florida.
One in every 20 Floridians has a valid concealed weapons permit. Sanford shooter George Zimmerman still has his. State law is very specific about when the permits can be suspended or revoked.
Sterling Ivey is a spokesman with the Florida Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services, the department that issues the permits.
“If you’re charged with a felony crime, and the department is notified, we can certainly move to have the license suspended," he said. "Once a conviction takes place, we can revoke that individual’s license.”
This past year, state lawmakers lowered the cost of a concealed permit to $70 from $85. Before being granted a permit, applicants must pass a gun safety course.
The Brady Project to Prevent Gun Violence says concealed carry permits are too easy to get in Florida.
“You know, this man George Zimmerman, is a living example of that," said Dan Gross, Brady Project president "This is a guy who had an arrest record. This is a guy who had a violent past. This is a guy who, in numerous other states, would never be offered a permit to carry a loaded, hidden, handgun.”
A spokesman for the National Rifle Association declined to be interviewed for this story. But the NRA has argued that statistics show only law abiding citizens get and keep a permit. State figures show 98 percent of all applicants receive a carry permit.
Since 1987, more than 2 million concealed weapons permits have been issued in Florida, and of those permits just three of every thousand have been revoked.
The Brady project counters that just one concealed permit in the wrong hands is an injustice.
Source
Why I, who would never own a gun, live in one of the most prolific gun toting states in the country is beyond me. I need to move to another country or something.
Trayvon Martin threatened to kill George Zimmerman, Zimmerman's father says
TAMPA - The father of 28-year-old George Zimmerman spoke out Wednesday night. In an exclusive interview with FOX 35's Valerie Boey, Robert Zimmerman says he and his family have gotten thousands of death threats.
He asked that his face not be shown as he explained what happened the night his son shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmerman's father speaks out- on video
So George told his father, but by the look of the video of his son entering the police station, I believe Captain Vigilante is not one to be believed. And he looks to be in great shape, too. Including his "broken" nose. Thanks, Snoopy, it looks like we may have another Cindy on our hands.
Dave~~in all fairness, we must look at both sides of the coin. Zimmerman's father does not think Trayvon was talking to his girlfriend on the cell phone. This can certainly be verified with the phone records. The FBI would have those. The girlfriend is due to testify before the grand jury. The timeline of the phone calls and when the shot was fired will be crucial when trying to figure out just exactly what happened.
We don't see any blood on George via the video and his father said he was cleaned up at the scene. It is a he said and they said. George's nose looked fine to us but it is hard to tell on the video and besides the swelling, if broken does not occur right away.
I am not sure if paramedics were called to the scene of the crime so who cleaned George up and assessed his injuries. I am disappointed that Trayon was tested for drugs but to my knowledge, Zimmerman was not and also that a swab was not taken of him for DNA. Was it Trayon's blood on Zimmerman?
This is going to be a toughie, Dave, judging from the airways and my full mailbox, let's hope the authorities can solve this before things get anymore out of hand.
Yes, we may have another Cindy or two of them???
You know me, Snoopy, and I can be as fair as they come. I realize how parents will come to the aid of their children, and that's just what Cindy did. I certainly don't hold it against Robert Zimmerman for defending George, but like Cindy, he knows nothing other than what his child has been feeding him.
Absolutely, paramedics were called to the scene. We know this because attempts were made to revive Trayvon. A police officer tried until they showed up. According to the initial police report, snipped for content" "Sanford Fire Rescue arrived on scene and attempted to revive the subject, but could not." That was followed by: "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD." Therefore, we do know that he was attended to. At some point, Zimmerman declined an offer to be taken to an area hospital.
As for the phone call from Trayvon's girlfriend, no one is disputing that, and from everything I've read up until now, it's an important piece of evidence related to the actual timeline of events. Yes, this is going to be one heck of a ride from now on. All sorts of "facts" will be leaked to the media, but remember, we should all be seasoned by now, after what we recently endured.
Oh no, José Baez is playing legal analyst here.... but I must admit, he is making a bit of sense...
Jose Baez predicts no conviction in Trayvon Martin case
With the recent tragedy of the senseless death of Mr. Martin it encroaches upon several issue: Rights and entitlement. As Americans we are automatically given rights and with the rights it seems as though they become expected almost guaranteed molded into entitlement. After the age of 14 (and with a permit or parental permission) teens, much like myself in those days, was able to work. The permit allowed me to work an estimated amount of hours not to exceed blah, blah, blah and I would have to be off work at such and such time. Lets not forget “Hunters Education”, although I do not believe it is as age sensitive as like driving or drinking I think this could be done as early as 9years old. At 15, like most of you, we get a permit to drive. As long as there is a licensed driver over the age of 18 those at the impressionable age of 15 were permitted to drive. At 18 (or after high school) you were permitted to join the armed forces. Also at this age you are permitted to vote for politicians that will lead you into victory or whatever. At 21 you are permitted to drink.
Its funny thinking about it now but we are permitted to do a lot of things while we go through adolescence, to teen, to adult. Many of these things are gifted to us with conditions; if not from an adult a superior entity.
Take driving as an example; as you are learning the basics of driving: managing the clutch, braking, staying between the lines; there is also a review in laws that you must conform to all the while you study, study, study because the moment you turn 16 there’s a test. You are not simply granted a license you have to earn the right to carry a license. Although you have the right to carry a license you are not entitled to it.
Its kinda a long way to go to make a point so I hope you bare with my response to Dave’s always well thought out article pointing out the states and the countries frustrations over this senseless murder (most murders are senseless hence murder but enough of the funnies).
I don’t think it unreasonable to assume many American’s do their best to help our fellow man/woman and that we follow the laws so that we do not infringe on their pursuit of life and liberty and their pursuit of happiness. Some people may go as far as becoming pillars of the community to ensure that “their” public remains safe; bringing forth our right to be involved with Neighborhood Watch. The Neighborhood Watch is essentially a tool consisting of volunteers used by LE to keep watch of…well, their neighborhood. Most of the volunteers consist of like minded homeowners and or groups who want to ensure our children and inhabitants are safe from harm and crime.
We are also granted, under the 2nd amendment, the “right to bare arms”. Our forefathers agreed that Americans have the right to own and operate firearms in a manner, which should not incorporate the killing of others (well, this is my thought really and how I interpret it which maybe way off) but for protection and livelihood. Several laws have been passed that allows many individuals who fear for their lives the ability to use deadly force in an effort to protect themselves or their family and or property. Here in Colorado it’s the “make my day law”. Followed closely by “concealed weapons” which allows individuals, by permit only, the right to carry a fire arm/or fire arms, concealed on their person at any time; laws change from state to state but essentially it’s the same throughout the United States.
The concealed weapons permit is not entitlement, it’s not really a right either but is granted by the government by those who apply and go through proper background screenings making it a gift if you will.
Where does Mr. Zimmerman fit in? …well, I can only surmise, as I’ve never met him and know nothing more than what is written or what has spilled out over the news but I will take into consideration his age and what is common in today’s society in respects to technology to better theorize and proffer an intelligent thought.
With entitlement let’s not forget the delusions of grandeur which can follow. Everyone, to some degree fantasizes about being a superhero. Perhaps many reading here can remember wearing a cape flying around the backyard shooting the bad guys. Watching those “super hero” movies hoping that you could emulate their abilities…x-ray vision? As we grow older we understand that super hero’s described in comic books are simply the imagination of people just like them wishing they too had similar powers as they are writing about a character. For a time I would imagine they, the writers, live vicariously through their writings acting them out in their heads. But in the end writers of these comic books have a realization that this is just imagination and they hope that someday their vision can be seen on the silver screen by the use of CGI.
I think to some degree many of the current generation of adults are, to a degree, desensitized to actual, physical reality. Not only considering comic books but many play Xbox or PlayStation, or what have you; and if you play long enough you will immerse yourself in your character. Games like Grand Theft Auto, or Medal of Honor, or any Tom Clancy game allows your avatar to play out war games, shoot the bad guy or even play the bad guy. You get extra lives and when you die well you are re-animated or you just start over. I think continued play will make you believe that killing in real life is not really that bad as you’ve played many hours killing people and you’re able to sleep at night so what is the big woop. (For those who haven’t already I would recommend playing Doom in surround with the lights off…better than any horror movies…swear).
Well, in life there is no re-set button, there are no extra lives and guns in life really have the capability to kill. In the end we are able to separate fact from fiction. That’s why many of us probably only use a gun while hunting or target practice. Although the argument to carry the gun is sound; how do you know that next time you run into someone they’re not armed? To me that is the risk I’ll take.
Society has the innate ability to make you believe in certain things and certain perceptions. We all know that not all Caucasians are genuinely good; same goes for our African American brothers, or our Hispanics, Asians…name a race. I think the media shows the degradation of society to reflect on the poverty stricken areas which, in some areas, have a prominent black presence. I look at neighborhoods like this different than how the media portrays; if the neighborhood has several Hispanics I think it unfair to think is a mini-Tijuana I think that the area which they congregate more or less caters to the culture. Does this mean they are bad? No, for one; it is possible that, like everyone else, they are trying to get ahead in life but the economy is in such fluctuation that living in this area is all that they can afford. It doesn’t really matter, where you live does not define you, IMO.
Zimmerman saw what society and media makes him see on a daily basis: a black man wearing a hoodie just walking home; looking suspicious. All black men wearing hoodies are violent criminals and are always up to no good right? Video games/ comic books always portray hoodie wearing individuals as bad guys. Zimmerman carries a gun and feels he is entitled to do so and feels he is above all ordinary citizens because he does. He gets to act-out his video game in real life. Delusions of grandeur take’s hold…maybe? With these powers I can be a superhero rings out in his head.
Because of his size, maybe his ethnicity, he feels superior. By no other reason, no threatening actions, no provocation by Trayvon Mr. Zimmerman fires because he has the right to bare arms and kill a person he deems threatening and act of self defense. He only has to convince LE that he felt his life in imminent danger hiding behind existing laws. LE takes his word for it as he is involved with the Neighborhood Watch and is a concealed weapon permitted carrier; he’s obviously trusted. He is simply ridding the neighborhood of unwanted potentially dangerous individuals whom, at this time is on the phone with his girlfriend who is recording. Because Mr. Martin is eating a bag of skittles and wearing a hoodie it is reason enough to draw a pistol and end a life..I guess?
I am a supporter of gun rights and the NRA but I also support gun control, almost an oxymoron. Sure we have the right to bare arms but we are not entitled to simply go about acquiring weapons just because we have that right; I think there should be guidelines followed in order to make us responsible. I’m certain our forefathers did not intend the literal application of baring arms that is why there are so many laws applicable to violence.
This tragedy is not just about Trayvon Martin but society as well. The racial barriers will never come down unless perceptions of what is good and evil are defined on actions and not color.
Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility. You have within your hands the ability not only to defend but to kill. It should be much more than just a background check but perhaps an evaluation. Are games of violence the cause of these needless killings? Are Justice League comic books? Probably not, just like Heavy Metal music is not antiquated to teen suicides; its individuals who are easily influenced because right and wrong have not been clearly identified. Desensitized…
I would like to think that society is moving towards equality and the word of Dr. Martin Luther King have never been so prevalent and needed. Hate breeds hate. If people come together only to hate and bring attention to the senseless killing of Trayvon based on hate then we are advocating future violence against those who hate hence hate breeds hate. I see the outrage, I see the violence, I see the tears, I see the mourning and before to long I fear I will see the hate and the violence will continue.
You certainly said a mouthful, BMan, and you're spot on. There is that silly mindset pertaining to video games and superheroes, and I've often wondered if people actually live out the fantasies. Maybe that did have something to do with it. If so, we are living in a sicker society than I could ever imagine.
George Zimmerman also gave me pause to wonder who all packs a pistol that we aren't aware of. Fortunately, I'm not a violent person, nor do I go out looking for trouble, so I should be relatively safe, right? Well, yes, or so I used to think, but Zimmerman changed all that. Trayvon Martin wasn't out looking for trouble, nor was he doing anything unusual. Nothing, in fact, until he felt like he was being stalked. And he was. I would go into defense mode, too. Any way you look at it, Zimmerman provoked Martin. If Martin defended himself, it was because he was the one who felt threatened, not the other way around. Black, white, yellow or red, what danger Zimmerman felt inside was way beyond the realm of common decency and respect for fellow men and women. I wonder now, what would have happened had I been the one walking along the same path – on the sidewalk. Would Zimmerman look at me as no threat because I am just an old white man? Like his father? Would that have been enough to give me the green light? The least Zimmerman should have done was to show the victim some common courtesy. If he was trained professionally, which I seriously doubt, he could have rolled own his window and said, “Excuse me... I'm the neighborhood watch captain in this community and we've had several breakins of late. I don't mean to intrude, but could I ask you a question about why you're here?”
Even so, Martin could have gotten an attitude, but ultimately, Zimmerman may not have pulled out his gun. This stupid vigilante had to play by his rules only, and here's the outcome. Death and destruction in its wake. No one wins. Trayvon's dreams may have ended, but George's nightmare had just begun. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
Thanks, BMan, you bring a lot of thought to the table, and I'm always hungry for that.
Re: Jose Baez, "You don't have to actually sustain injuries, you just have to fear deadly force, harm, death" (something like that) If this is the case, why wouldn't Trayvon Martin be allowed the same priviledge. George Zimmerman, was from the start of the scene, the agressor. Surely Trayvon must have felt fear, with this guy stalking him. Trayvon did not have a weapon, but George implied he may have by his remark of "his hand in his waistband"! But George KNEW he himself had a weapon, surely he will get some kind of a conviction, at least I hope so, because if not it sets another example of how the law can be interpreted on the spot for convenience. I am beginning to believe that the lawyers realize us everyday people do not know the laws and they know they can twist a little here and there and have us as their inferior, except for the criminal which are seeing themselves protected buy the law more than fear it. Does anyone know what I am trying to say? I don't!
Hi New Puppy - I took the afternoon off to take care of a few things, including some time with my old friend Joe.
Trayvon did have the right to protect himself, and he may have, but he was shot and that left one person to tell the story. The law in Florida is clear:
Fla. Stat. § 776.012. Use of force in defense of person
A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.
OK, fine, but what about Trayvon?
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
So, you see, Trayvon was right if he attempted to protect himself. What we have is an aggressive George Zimmerman going after a guy who was minding his own business.
In order for a stand your ground law to work, there must be a death. That's the only way a person can claim it. Unfortunately, Trayvon was not around to challenge it.
In my opinion, had Zimmerman pulled his gun out of his waistband, and Trayvon was pummeling him, why wasn't the victim shot in the gut instead of the chest? I seriously doubt Zimmerman was given the opportunity to raise the gun to a chest level.
As for lawyers assuming we don't understand laws and such, we can only formulate an opinion. Most importantly, it's what the courts understand.
I hope that answers your question.
New Puppy~~I understood every word you said. Now I hope someone can understand what I am about to write.... (Our prince charming is having a much needed break today)
Dave ~~what do you think? It seems that best alternative would be to try and figure out this mess with technology.
Ballistics would know how the bullet entered Trayvon's chest and how far away the shooter was. Did the bullet go in at an angle, indicating that Trayvon may have been on top of Zimmerman. George reaches in his holster and sticks the gun in Trayvon's chest and shoots. Zimmerman would had to have gun powder residue on his hand. Was he tested for this back at the police station? Was Trayvon tested for gun powder residue before the autopsy was performed? If the bullet went straight into Trayvon's chest and it can be proven the gun was fired from a distance of even a foot or more, it would mean that Trayvon could not be lying on Zimmerman pounding him. I would love to know if any of these tests were performed or was everything shoved under the rug.
I tried to answer New Puppy and part of yours, but the location and distance of the fatal shot to the body will be very, very important to this case. As for powder tests and the like, I haven't seen any documents that could clear up the mes. Not yet, anyway.
Hey all. I watched the video of Zimmerman at the police station. I believe it had been 35 minutes since the shooting. I will admit it is not the best video but a few things I noticed. 1 No blood on shirt from his nose bleed. No blood on shirt from Trayvon, splatter or pool of blood. 2 His red sweater appears to be dry, imo. Does not look like he rolled around on the wet ground. 3. 35 minutes after a fight for his LIFE and his shirt is still perfectly tucked in? Seems odd. I doubt he had time to fix himself. Police were on scene within minutes, EMTs fixed up his bloody nose and the gash (wink) on the back of his head. I am guessing he then would be put in handcuffs and hauled down to the station.
I do not believe this case started out to be about race, but it is now. I truly believed it had more to do with a less than perfect investigation. And that leads me to another question. Why send out detectives if you do not follow their advice on charges? I believe charges should have been filed. Both stood their ground, but only 1 was armed. Does not seem like a fair fight for a lack of better phrase.
I am still a little under the weather so it may take me days to come back and I apologize for that but I can not help it. I will say it is really good to see a lot of my old friends. Not that you are old. :)
It's great to see you, too, Laurali.
I think that by the time this mess becomes less raveled and more clear, it may be that there was a good old boy mentality going on between Zimmerman and the Sanford Police. Something just doesn't seem right. I've got an old story I may publish tomorrow. It may help explain some of this.
Then there is the comment favorable to George Zimmerman, that he stated Trayvon was headed toward him. I really am not ready to believe that, because it appears the aggressor was already set on a confrontation with Travon, otherwise he would have been happy to wait for the police to arrive.
By stating on the police communcation that the victim was headed toward him it gave an out to protect himself. He may not have left his residence with it in mind to hurt someone but that opportunity when he say Trayvon alone seems to have driven his desire to become a want- a- be hero, of the sorts.
He saved everybody from this hooded hoodlum!!! WOW!
Yes, the law is the law when it comes to the head, and I believe in that it must prevail. I do not think the LE in the beginning did anything so wrong, but after awhile now it seems there should be cause to make an arrest and that is what makes a heartache ache more. The lawyers have to read every minute detail of the law to make it work for any benefit. What appear to be loopholes are not really loopholes they are made to appear so. I was and still am one who said don't jump on the jury, for I don't see them dumb idiots in the Casey Anthony case. I saw it and I will also see it as with what they "understood" about the law as it was presented to them, they acted. If GZ is not given some punishment for his actions, then it works again, because I can not punish someone when "by the law" I am not convinced. (speaking as a juror) Can't do it just because others want it done. However, in any case where the facts are there but not the proof, maybe it is better to give some punishment, even to a lesser degree, just to say, "you can't do that" "you can't hurt someone physically on purpose and just walk away, which they do. Emotionally, we can be killed but that is another cry for help, as Trayvon's parents having been devestated, how gracious they are to avoid violence and ask for justice.
I really think that was a complete fabrication, New Puppy. How can Zimmerman say Martin is heading toward him and turn right around and say he's following the guy? Why did he choose to ignore the dispatcher's recommendation? Why did he say yes when the dispatcher asked him if he was following the teen – while saying the teen is coming toward him?
I don't know what the outcome of this will be, but it is going to be an open wound in this country for a long time to come. The least I could hope for is that it turns out not to be a hate crime, but it will be tough to convince me there wasn't any heavy-handed profiling running through Zimmerman's head, racial or not.
And just where have you been Laurali, I thought I was one to go off now and then but I've noticed you have been away from here for quite awhile. Hope you are well.