The Tragedy of Trayvon Martin
Thursday, March 22, 2012 at 2:16PM 
PLEASE READ MY NEW POST HERE:
By now, the entire world knows who Trayvon Martin is — the unarmed 17-year-old African-American lad shot dead in his tracks by an overzealous Neighborhood Watch captain, George “Triggerman” Zimmerman, on February 26 in Sanford, Florida. Before delving too deeply into this tragedy, just what is Neighborhood Watch, and who (or what) gives people the right to shoot anyone?
Actually, the National Neighborhood Watch Institute has no authority or control over anything. According to the NNWI Website, it “was formed to supply law enforcement agencies and individual’s [sic] better tools for their crime prevention dollar.”
Basically, NNWI sells the materials, including signs and manuals, necessary for police departments to train people like “Triggerman” Zimmerman. In my opinion, whatever the police department was that trained him, they did a remarkably lousy job. While the NNWI strives to “provide excellent educational materials and products that build observation and reporting skills,” somewhere along the line, all of Zimmerman’s training went out the window with one squeeze of the trigger. Not only did the system fail him, he failed the system dreadfully.
The location of the shooting was inside the gated community of The Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman lives in that community and he’s the self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain. Apparently, he called 911 at least 47 times between August 12, 2004 and Feb. 26 of this year. Most of the calls started the same way about suspicious persons, “We’ve had a lot of break-ins in our neighborhood recently and I’m on the Neighborhood Watch.”
George Zimmerman 911 Call History
How revealing it is that most of those suspicious characters were black, yet this shooting is not supposed to be about racial profiling? Give me a break.
I went to the scene on March 21 and spoke to several people. I took photos of the spot where Trayvon died, and I laid it all out in the pictures displayed below to give you a good idea of what went down that tragic Sunday evening.
CLICK PHOTOS TO ENLARGE
This map shows the route Trayvon Martin took when he returned.
Visiting from Miami, Trayvon walked to a nearby 7-Eleven, but when I say nearby, it was about a 2-mile hike. I’m sure, like other boys his age, he got restless inside his father’s girlfriend’s house and needed to get out to do what 17-year-olds do; they text and talk on their phones. That’s not all. He wanted to buy something for his soon-to-be stepbrother, so when he got to the store, he bought a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea, turned around and headed back. Very suspicious, huh?
Almost immediately after Trayvon returned to the gated community, Zimmerman began to slowly tail him in his pickup truck. It’s as if he were lying in wait… lurking… ready to pounce at any moment. He dialed 9-1-1 to, once again, report a suspicious character, whose crime thus far was merely being black. When Trayvon put his hoodie up to keep the falling rain off his head, he suddenly morphed into a black thug. You see? This is racial profiling, plain and simple.
Straight ahead, between the two perpendicular rows of buildings, is the sidewalk Trayvon took to escape Zimmerman. It was the way back to where he was staying.
Zimmerman has a concealed weapons permit and was carrying a Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi-automatic handgun. Why, in God’s name, anyone like him needs to carry a gun in his capacity as a nobody with no authority whatsoever is beyond me. Today, he is a murderer in my book.
In recorded 911 calls, Zimmerman acknowledged that he was following a suspicious person. At some juncture, he parked his truck and began pursuing Trayvon on foot. In his subsequent statements to police, he claimed that Trayvon attacked him and he shot the teenager in self-defense, but here’s where his story falls apart. (Continued below the photos)
This is the path Trayvon took, looking south. Scott is on the left. Both are from a Japanese media organization. Facing me is the direction Trayvon took. Zimmerman parked his truck somewhere near the red car and pursued on foot.
This is the spot where Trayvon died, just to the left of the small tree.
Trayvon never left the sidewalk. He followed the path to where he was staying. As he approached his destination, the sidewalk went from being parallel to the street to winding around the side and backside of two rows of townhouses. In order to continue following his prey, Zimmerman had to get out of his pickup to pursue him. He had to run, too, which is clearly evident on one of the 911 recordings, where he acknowledges to the dispatcher that he is running after him. The dispatcher tells him not to do that, to which Zimmerman says “OK” yet ignores the request. Incidentally, dispatchers have no authority. They are civilians and all they can do is offer advice.
This is the scene looking south. The shooting took place on the sidewalk to the left.
This is what Trayvon last saw as he tried to make it back to safety, although it was dark.
From what I was told near the scene, Zimmerman raced in front of Trayvon and swung around abruptly to face him. Both stopped in their tracks. Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend at that moment. Bear in mind that Zimmerman weighed about 100 lbs. more than Trayvon. Trayvon asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman demanded to know why he was there.
STOP! BACK UP!
Here’s where it gets tricky. If a nutbasket like Zimmerman came up to me, I’d want to know who gave him the authority to question who I am and why I’m anywhere. I’d ask him if he were a cop. No? Then get out of my face. It’s none of his business. That’s a natural reaction. Someone pushed first. It doesn’t matter who, because, in no time at all, a senseless vigilante pulled out his weapon and shot an innocent person dead on the spot. He shot him point blank in the chest. I’ve heard rumors he did it while the teenager was lying on the ground, on his back, but I haven’t heard anything official yet.
One of the people I spoke to was Sly, who lives nearby, but not inside The Retreat. He said that, obviously, Zimmerman knew all about the Stand Your Ground law, where you shoot to kill and claim self-defense. Without a witness, who’s there to contest it? Because of that law, the Sanford Police Department chose to not arrest Zimmerman, but my big question to them is quite simple — has there ever been an incident anywhere in the world where a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea was used to threaten someone or cause death or great bodily harm?
I didn’t think so.
Trayvon was on his cell phone talking to his 16-year-old girlfriend within minutes of his death. He told her he was being followed. She told him to run. He told her he’d walk a little faster, but he wasn’t going to run. Trayvon had no idea who this dude was or what he wanted. When he walked around the corner of a building, Zimmerman zipped on by and swung around.
“What are you following me for?” Trayvon asked.
“What are you doing around here?” Zimmerman demanded.
Trayvon must have been pushed, his girlfriend assumed, because his headset fell to the ground and the phone went dead. Who pushed who first doesn’t matter. This is clearly the case of a cop wannabe. Zimmerman took the law into his own hands, as if he had the power of a real law enforcement officer. This was his goal in life — to be a cop. In one loud pop, that dream went down the drain as blood flowed from Trayvon’s chest. Trayvon’s own dreams faded into oblivion in a matter of seconds.
There’s a good reason why Zimmerman never became a police officer. What’s sad is that no one looked at him intently enough to know he was a threat to everyone’s safety; a guy who took his self-proclaimed title as captain of the neighborhood too seriously. Today, he’s nothing more than a cold-blooded murderer. He alone provoked the incident. Would someone please tell the Sanford Police Department that you cannot be the instigator and then claim Stand Your Ground self-defense?
Incidentally, police confiscated Zimmerman’s gun. He says he needs to buy a replacement to keep up his work as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Would someone please tell me this is not an insane world?
Tonight, I will try my best to join thousands of others in the National Rally for Justice on behalf of Trayvon Martin.
Dave Knechel | tagged Al Sharpton, National Action Network, Trayvon Martin Map | in 18th Circuit Court, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, FBI, FDLE, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, NNWI, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Stand Your Ground, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon Martin, marinadedave | Share Article | 1 Reference 
LEGAL NOTICE
©David B. Knechel. All Rights Reserved. No portion of this site can be reproduced in it's entirety or in part without expressed written permission by the owner/administrator of this site in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Section 512(c)(3) of the U.S. Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §512(c)(3). The charges against defendants are mere accusations and the subjects are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.
Reader Comments (134)
911 call when you hear the screaming and the gun shot
This is the controversial 911 call... it sounded to me like Zimmerman said..."the a**holes always get away." You can give a listen and see what you think....
This is the 911 call Zimmerman made-Unredacted
Listen intently to that last 911 call... Zimmerman says, "he's coming to check me out." Right after he says, "these ???? always get away." Why would he say that when he said the black male was coming to check him out? Twice Zimmerman mentioned the black male had something in his waistband and then said the male had something in his hand. Then Zimmerman says, "he's running away." That is when Zimmerman pursues him and was told not to follow but he disregarded the dispatcher.
Zimmerman couldn't make up his mind at the time. how was he going to slant this in his favor?
The following is well worth a read... the 911 call audio tape may become the most important piece of evidence to convict.
Pending the outcome of some voice analysis, there is arguably enough evidence in the 911 tapes to warrant the arrest of George Zimmerman in connection with the Feb. 26 shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. The voice testing is needed to determine if Zimmerman uttered a racial slur while in pursuit of Martin, and which of the two can be heard crying out for help during their altercation in Sanford, Fla
Read the entire article here... it makes my short analysis of the call bleak...
Michael Smerconish: Analyzing 911 calls in Fla. shooting death
There is lots of information here and videos... Rev Jesse Jackson is in town.
Sanford town hall meeting; Thousands expected at rally
It has been said that the picture we are seeing of Trayvon Martin is when he was much younger. Now we hear from the other side... I wonder where Zimmerman went to get treated for his broken nose???
Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow, then began hammering his head
This will end my updates for the time being. My mailbox is being swamped with alerts about this case and it is impossible to keep up with all of them. I would love to hear your thoughts on what I have submitted thus far~~SS
Watch Town Hall Meeting Live here
Here is a better link to watch the live stream...
Live Stream- Town Meeting
What a site! Believe it or not, I found my way here through my feeble efforts at marketing my personal recipe barbecue sauce. Crazy! Instead it is like Dick Tracy and Dash Hammett got together at a backyard cookout and had the Durants over as guests. History, crime, injustice, travel...A Marinade indeed!
But enough of the accolades: I plain enjoy your Blog. I write a nonsense Booger about, ostensibly, Bicycles; but you would never know it by the content. But just the other day I was thinking of another theme for a site. I would steal the title from the famous Paul Harvey phrase, "And Now, For the Rest of the Story"...Our Media blasts around like bumblebees or hummingbirds darting back and forth from stamen to pistil covering whatever is most likely to garner the most attention at any given moment.
Meanwhile the (all to real) victims and perpetrators fade into the background of the fifteen minutes of the public's attention span and ultimately justice, sympathy, retribution and recompense may or may not suffer for it; I don't know. The rest of the story is usually not told.
Conspiracy Theory is a convenient catchphrase for Thinking With Your Own Brain, not the one you are told to think with; if it smells bad it probably is bad; and of course the old standard "History is written by the victors." History these days is instantaneous and the Victor may just be the person who got the last word in.
I'll be back and long winded as always. I live in a nearby place filled with an amazing history and would be happy to talk about it anytime. Google Turnbull Colony for a teaser.
Meanwhile keep saucin' it up, Dave. Good work!
tj
Hi tj -
Believe it or not, when I first started blogging way back in 2004, my plan was to write about marinades; marinating foods, how marinades work, and marinade recipes. The only problem with it, though, was that I ran out of ideas. Actually, I didn't think there was much more to write because I didn't want this to turn into a recipe site, so I diversed. I wrote human interest stories, including humorous experiences in my life, and every so often, I'd throw in a post on politics and ethics. Then, along came the Casey Anthony case and, since I live near Orlando, it was something I knew I could write about. I did. The rest is history.
Thank you for enjoying my blog so much. That's great! Especially coming from a fellow blogger. So, you write about bicycles? I'm interested, so when you come in next, please add your blog address to a comment so everyone will know where to find you. I will add your site to my sidebar, too.
One of the nice things about blogging is that you have the opportunity to write about anything you please. My objective is not to garner attention or high ratings, meaning readership. Yes, that's part of it, but I can honestly say that when I began writing about the Caylee story, I had no idea how many people would end up coming here. It's settled down now, and I thought I would have some peace of mind for awhile, but now the Trayvon travesty has come along and I'm back in the hot seat. My job now is the same as it's been for the past 3+ years – to show people things that aren't generally covered in mainstream media. No one showed a map or explained the route the Martin and Zimmerman took, so I did, and whatever else I can dig up, I will cover it.
You're right about history being written by the victors; for the most part, anyway. But take Jeff Ashton. He lost and published a best seller. I think times have changed. We now live in a world where singers shock us with vivid sex videos and it only seems to enhance their careers. Take Rod Blagojevich. He's kicked out of office and immediately plays the media circus, including a stint on The Apprentice. Finally, the court caught up with him, but he had plenty more than the average 15 minutes of fame. Now it's over, and no one cares. Ultimately, he didn't write the history of himself, although he tried. The court did.
Anyway, I really do appreciate your comment, and I look forward to seeing you here again. You are more than welcome. Also, I did take a look at the Turnbull Colony. I had heard of it before, but hadn't ever given it much thought. That's something worth looking into, especially since I have so much interest in Old Florida. To everyone, here is a teaser: The Search for Turnbull's Colony
Thanks again, tj. I shall do my best to keep saucin' it up!
Here is a post with some interesting information.
http://a12iggymom.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer/
I'm also hearing from someone who lives in the Miami area that there are those wanting to "get that Jew, Zimmerman." Seems like this story has a bit more to it than I knew. Obama spoke against the murder but he is silent against the Black Panther's vigilantiism? These people need to be arrested pronto! Creative Race Theory at its finest in the DOJ.
Lovely. Divisiveness on parade...
Here is Sherry's link...
Was Trayvon Martin a drug dealer
Sherry~~quite an eye opener info at that site!! I think I may just sit back and not comment further on this case. There are always two stories to every story and I hope people have not rushed to judgement when they do not know all the facts.
Be careful what you are looking at. The blogger writes with forked tongue. For example, "Tray's" Myspace page describes himself as 19-years-old. Trayvon is 17. Lookie, lookie here:
☠TRAY☠'S DETAILS
status: single
here for: friends
orientation: straight
hometown: dade
body type: 5' 8" / slim / slender [Trayvon is 6'3" BIG DIFFERENCE!!!]
ethnicity: native american [HUH?]
religion: christian - other
zodiac sign: aquarius
children: someday
education: high school
[Heck, when I was 17, I wasn't lily-white. No pun or anything else intended.]
Thanks, Snoopy! I'm with you. I've listened to all sorts of opinions from blacks and whites. I've read and listened to videos pro and con concerning Zimmerman and Trayvon. The only thing is, I just can't get past that Zimmerman said, "They always get away." Who is "they" to him? To me it would be blacks. I think its a good idea to sit back a bit and see how this plays out with the investigation.
Dave, I know there's some info that seems radical but, its a collection of information that she put together from other sites. Here is one I thought was interesting because it makes me think the media has this idea that the lighter a man's skin is the more innocent. That's racist, imo. So is calling Zimmerman a "white" hispanic. Its like race baiting.
http://chicksontheright.com/2012/03/26/the-new-journalism-photoshop-anyone/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ChicksOnTheRight+%28Chicks+On+The+Right%29
Hi Sherry - No doubt the media is playing this for all it's worth, but in the end, we still have a dead teenager, and no matter what his background is, I blame Zimmerman for it. He ignored the dispatcher's request to back off. In my opinion, he was the aggressor, and we have to take into consideration that a 17-year-old brain is not as mature as a 28-year-old one. Clearly, what Zimmerman did was not adult-like. The way I see it now, there will be no winners. A boy is dead and a man's life is ruined until the day he dies. Why didn't Zimmerman just listen to the dispatcher? He had to play superhero.
What I find humorous and really ridiculous is this skin thingie... It is the largest organ in the human body and causes so much grief. If God ever had it to do over again, he would turn us all inside out so we would look all the same.
Very astute observation, Snoopy, and so, so true.
Dave, where did the info for where Zimmerman's truck was parked come from? I'm trying to find out a place that described where and I can't.
Hi Bryan - Good question. I collected the information from the people I spoke to onsite. Were any of them there that night? I don't think so, but they were pretty sure, and they were a lot more familiar with the place than I was. Do I have any real proof? No, but even common sense tells you he would have stopped his vehicle there in order to follow Martin around the side and corner of the building.
I believe the location of his truck is described in his 911 call. I just listened to the tape and that was what he told the dispatcher then he asked if the officer could call him when he arrived.
As for Zimmerman having a broken nose, he did not. What he had was a bloody nose and a gash on the back of his head that the paramedics were able to treat onsite. Then he was arrested and during interrogation it was discovered that the back of his shirt was wet and grass-stained. That Trayvon was found lying face down on the ground could mean that he was on top of Zimmerman just as a witness and as Zimmerman said. That was the reason for his release.
I think its awful hinky when the media and such want to show only Trayvon's pics from 5 years ago-like the one of him holding his baby brother-and show Zimmerman's wicked past only. But we can't talk about Trayvon being a troubled teen nor can we talk about Zimmerman and his wife helping poor black kids to read. The media want us to believe that Trayvon was an innocent who gunned down by this big ol' racist "white" hispanic. I guess I just don't like getting played for someone's agenda-whatever that agenda be. In this case, causing racial tensions. I hate even moreso when victim's families get used by race baiters. Sharpton and jackson are not there out of the goodness of their hearts. They got paid big bucks to show their face and speak a few words of division.
I'm going to quit now. Trayvon is never coming back. He'll never have the opportunity to make good of his life. Zimmerman will never be able to take the bullet back. He knows he shot at Trayvon in self defense but he will face a lynch-mob mentality from the black community as well as his greivious regrets though he has done nothing illegal.
On a good note, the New Black Panther who issue the bounty has been arrested. Now, lets see if those who printed up those posters will be arrested for aiding and abetting-or, at least, for a hate crime. Still, the crickets is all you hear from the WH~
Well, Sherry, I will admit I was no saint in high school and to say I didn't inhale at 17 would be a lie. Those days are long gone in my life, with the key word being LIFE, something that Trayvon lost. Regardless of his past, or Zimmerman's for that matter, Trayvon Martin did not instigate this problem, George Zimmerman did. 100%. What I want to know is what did Martin do to warrant an "in your face" dude like Zimmerman interrupting his day? By what authority did he have permission to do that? If anyone can answer those questions, I'll back down. If there's anything remotely attached to racism, it would be that had it been a white guy, would Zimmerman have turned his car around or would he have gone to the grocery store?
OK thanks for the pictures of the scene, no other articles seem to contain them which really helps.
I would like to mention the one thing that seems no one has really mentioned is the quickness of the self defense claim Zimmerman uttered to witnesses immediately after the shot.
Also Zimmerman's mouthpiece - Oliver is a former news anchor?/reporter, is trying to paint a portrait of a caring individual Zimmerman was, well then how come he did not try to do anything at the scene to help Trayvon or become an emotional mess?
I also have some issue with the coward residents who all heard screams for help yet hid inside while someone got shot - now I know they were fearful but what if that was an abduction taking place or a rape? Their fear kept them inside and therefore they have less eyewitness accounts.
Step up people!
Honestly the situation could have had a very different outcome had Zimmerman had the common courtesy and respect to another human being and pulled up next Trayvon introduced himself cordially, explained the situation and simply asked him where he was going politely.
I often had to ask some unfortunate homeless individuals to remove their stuff from a property I service and treated them with respect as humans and politely explained the situation and politely asked them to remove their stuff, they responded politely that they would and did so without any issues.
that's all it takes humanity for your fellow man.
Thanks, John
Fortunately/unfortunately, I live very close to Sanford, so I was in a good position to go to the site, ask questions, and take photographs.
You asked some very compelling questions that need solid answers. Zimmerman shot Martin dead. I don't think he cared after that, except for his own skin. He's not dumb enough to not think of the Stand Your Ground law before walking out of his house with gun in hand, and I'm sure he played out a scenario over and over and over again in his mind, rehearsing his lines, just in case. Well, just in case took place, and he was well versed.
There are two things that came to my mind that need explanations. Why didn't any of the so-called witnesses come to Zimmerman's aid? After all, they must have known him. If these witnesses remained inside their homes, how could they get a clear view of the incident when inside light was reflecting off the glass? If they looked through screen doors instead, that makes it worse.
The most compelling thing you wrote was the one that makes the best sense. If Zimmerman wanted to play cop, which he did, why didn't he roll down his window and ask the teen who he was. You're absolutely right! All he had to do was identify himself as a neighborhood watch person and the whole thing would have just gone away. Instead, he had to be the tough guy with a gun. Obviously, without it, he knew exactly what kind of a wimp he was. Today, he's nothing more than a piece of crap.
I must say that after the Casey Anthony mess, I didn't expect anything that big to hit this area for a long time. Sadly, I was wrong. Thank you, John. - Dave
I know this is stupid, but it is not a .9mm weapon; it is a 9mm weapon. this is the sort of detail that to some pro 2nd amendment folks "proves" how little you know about guns, and, in their minds, points to bias.
Well, karl, call me stupid for saying so, but I don't care about the calibre (or is that caliber?) of a gun. What I do care about is what a person does with it, and Zimmerman is as bad as a drunk driver killing a kid. Does it really matter whether it was a Ford Fusion or a Chevy Malibu?
Yes, a person pulled the trigger, but other than for protection or target practice or collecting, to what other purpose do guns serve? This has nothing to do with bias.
By the way, do you know how to fly a jumbo jet? No? Neither do I. Using this logic, it's tantamount to saying we know very little about 911. That's how this sort of rationale works.
Thanks for your comment.
The reason it looks like Zimmerman attacks first, be it a push or a tackle, is that Trayvon is cut off in mid sentence. Trayvon's girlfriend says thinks Zimmerman "pushed" him cause Trayvon is saying something and then his voices suddenly changes as if he is pushed. Then she hears the fight, the headphone fall, and the call is lost after that.
The fact that Tryavon is in mid sentence when the fight starts suggests he did not make the first attack.
I agree with you 100%, Dan! She's going to testify to it in front of a grand jury, too, if it even reaches that plateau. Zimmerman is facing an imminent arrest. I can feel it coming. Thanks!
Thank you SO MUCH for this GREAT Blog and the fantastic work on detailing the facts.
KUDOs Much to You.
Thank you very much, Laser. I got a lot of practice while writing about the Casey Anthony case. This one crept up on me when I least expected it, though, and I knew right away that I had to investigate it. It's a sad story with no winners. As much as I want justice for Trayvon, all I want is the truth, and I don't think it's coming from George Zimmerman.
Your welcome Dave
We are in desparate need of truth seekers such as you.
Please keep up the good works and keep us informed.
Again- GREAT work...
Ps - sent you a pm????
I'm more than happy to help, Laser, and I just responded to your e-mail. I'll be in touch tomorrow. Thank you very much!
Lie after lie after lie after lie. And yet, there are people who still try to justify this idiot killing an innocent person, regardless of skin color. Doesn't anyone remember that Zimmerman is on the phone with the 911 dispatcher from the moment he sees this kid until just a couple of minutes before the kid is dead? So, at what point during the 911 call did Trayvon Martin walk past Zimmerman's car window and say "what's up?" Nope, not on the tape. And if Trayvon attacked him when he got out of his truck to look at a street sign, why was his body found a couple hundred yards away from the truck? By the way, only 4 streets in the neighborhood. He already knew the street he was on, he wasn't sure of the house number when asked by the dispatcher of his location. To those who believe he was retreating back to his truck, why, then, not tell the police that you will be at your vehicle when they arrive? Instead, he says, "have them call me back" to let them know where he is at. You only do that for 1 reason. You are still moving and are unsure where you will be when they get there! He continued to pursue this kid and NEVER headed back to his truck. Another observation: If Zimmerman is on the ground being beaten and shoots from the ground up, how does he end up being the person straddling the dead body? The boy was found face down with a gunshot wound to the chest. Which means Zimmerman had to roll his body over after he shot him. Why would it be necessary to move the position of the body in a self defense case?
Hi MMCGINNIS – Sadly, people still have certain inalienable rights in this country, so we're going to have to wait for due process. Actually, I'm all for it, and all kidding aside, Zimmerman deserves the same treatment as everyone else. What I do find unfortunate, aside from an innocent person's death, is the “stand your ground” law that kept him from being arrested and jailed. But alas, I'd rather it be this way lest he turn around and sue for false imprisonment or something. Rushing Zimmerman to trial after charging him with unsubstantiated crimes could lead to another local court fiasco, so I'm all for being patient. Look how long it took for Casey to go to trial?
If we didn't have that persnickety “stand your ground” law, you bet he would be enjoying his dinners compliments of Seminole County.
Don't worry, MMCGINNIS, I'm sure the facts will come out as the investigation proceeds outside of the hands of the local police department. The truth may not be what a lot of people want to hear, but I'd rather have the that than a punishment based on lies. In my opinion, Zimmerman is a complete idiot, but I don't think he set out to shoot anyone that night, let alone a teenage boy with Skittles as his only weapon of choice. Still, to walk away a free man is far from fair. This is a tough one, and patience must prevail. Thanks.
If Zimmerman was under Trayvon and shot upwards, Z's clothing would be saturated with Trayvon's blood. It would be all down the front of Z's t-shirt or whatever he had on under the jacket. In order for Trayvon to be face down, Z would have had to give T a push and shoot him and get out from under him in a split second. It is not possible.
Very good point, Snoopy.
Excellent article and follow up posts.
One point that I can not shake is that we have heard the 911 calls and now we have heard the descriptions of the events from Zimmerman's proxies. The proxies' description of events does not match the 911 calls. Never do any of Zimmerman's proxies include the fact that (supposedly) Zimmerman was yelling, repeatedly, at the top of his lungs, for several moments "Help!!!! Please Help Me!!!!!" and that those cries stopped immediately after the gun shot. If Zimmerman is the yeller, than the accounts retold by Zimmerman's proxies is at best VERY incomplete and inaccurate.
Hi, Matt - Thank you very much for the compliment.
While I am not at all convinced that this was a hate crime, I do believe Zimmerman's account of events is not the truth. What we have is a male with a gun stalking an unarmed male. Logically, one would think the outcome of a situation like this would be that the armed male would come out the winner. Lo and behold, that's precisely what happened. Duh, no surprise there. The armed male knew to claim 'stand your ground' immediately after the shooting. This tells me he was well aware of the law and had prepped himself for a day like this.
There is no way in the world I would trust his word, and dead men don't speak. I sure hope the truth comes out soon, although I am also well aware that an investigation like this must be thorough and that takes time. I'd much rather have a lengthy investigation than a speedy one. Will Al Sharpton be patient enough? I hope so, but I sure can understand why he's beating his chest.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
My understanding of this law is that Trayvon was the person that should claim the Stand your Ground Law. He was trying to escape an armed man following and harrassing him. He retreated until he felt it was time to stand his ground. As you say Zimmerman had no authority to follow or stop this young man and demand anything.
You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, stand your ground only works when the other party is dead. I'm sure Trayvon was doing his best to stand his ground after this overzealous human mutation chased after him. What a waste.
Thank you. - Dave
1st Trayvon was the person entitled to Stand his Ground - Zimmerman was the aggressor
2nd It is not SYG Law that protects Zim - it was the inept Police being arbitrary & capricious
3rd The Sanford Police are the True culprits here - they lied from the beginning (WHY)
Finally, no one needs the racist remarks,
You need not argue about what happend in the purportedfights,
No one needs to review the SYG laws
(which, by the way, both Jeb Bush who signed it into law and Sen Peaden who proposed the Law say it does Not give protection to Zimmerman)
George Zimmerman GOT out of his vehicle with a Gun and pursued a person for NO qualifying reason - except one of Zimmerman's own mind design.
The moment he did so - He is Culpable.
Any other logic is ABSURD!
I agree with you 100%, Laser. By the way, I did just put up a new post called A Loaded Question, and I created a DK account. I look forward to being a part of the community!
Give me a link Dave
the one thing that is frustating at DK
are the search function frustrations
I haven't set anything up at DK yet. I have to wait a week to post any articles, so I'm not in a big hurry yet. When I set up a profile page, of course, I'll e-mail it to you. Meanwhile, I'll just post here and if there's anything useful, please use it. The new post is mostly a rehash, but there's something I thought of that I haven't read anything about yet. It just makes sense to me.
I think it's notable that Zimmerman said the boy was headed toward the back enterance to the community and he clearly did NOT want the "F___ing Coon" to get away. This is why Zimmerman placed himself between Trayvon and the back exit which was right next to Trayvon's Dad's girlfriends place or place of safety for Trayvon. If Zimmerman was between Trayvon and his place of safety, Trayvon probably got very freaked out! He was cut off and had no where to go to get safe and could only fight and cry for help.
That's it, Steve. Trayvon was cornered. I hope a determination is made at the official investigative level that shows the screams were not from Zimmerman. That would debunk his entire story.
Thanks!
Steve, first, is there a link to where Zimmerman said, F*-coon? I'd like to get that for my own research. TIA~
Another thing, do you think that Trayvon was that close to home (his dad's)? If what you say is true, then I wonder why his dad or step-mother didn't hear him screaming. Also, it was 12 hours before his dad got concerned about his whereabouts and finally called the police department. Evidently, the word of what had happened in the gated community had not reached him in that 12 hours. I'm not sure if his dad lived there or not and if it was a short cut Trayvon had taken.
Trayvon's father was visiting his fiancee in the gated community.
Sherry~~here is the uncut 911 call. I have yet to make out F***** Coon. Someone mentioned once that if you listen with an ear plug, you can hear things better. Here is the call...
911 call unredacted
Sherry, I wish someone would tell us how many minutes in on the audio tape this racial remark occured. I heard a**holes and then I thought I heard the sound of someone checking a gun. It was hard to decipher the clicking noise.
Sherry~~okay, just before the dispatcher says, "are you following him?," you can hear the muffled breathing of Zimmerman but by darn, it would take some intricate enhancing to turn that into him saying F*** Coon.
Thanks, Snoopy. I had tried before to find that remark but came up empty (it was what someone said he was saying-not the kind of proof I wanted). If that's the case then it was racist on Zimmerman's part for absolutely sure.
Oh my goodness... upthread I said listen with an ear plug. Please don't do that. An ear piece or head phones works much better.
Yes! he DID say it! Its at the 2:22 mark. A commentor at that page said he said "F*-in punks" and that could be it, as I listened to it again.
Sherry~~okey dokey, I will give another little listen. "F* punks", to me is not a racial remark. I thought I was supposed to hear F**** coons...
[edit- I listened but could not make out what he said.]
That's OK, Snoopy, my one ear is plugged and I can't hear out the other! LOL! Interesting that the dispatcher doesn't want Zimmerman to follow the kid, who at this time took off running for the back entrance, but wants him to keep an eye on what he's doing ( at the 1:31 mark). At the end of this call Zimmerman had no idea where Trayvon had gone. He was to head back to the mailboxes but then Zimmerman asked for the police to call him when they get to the place. This makes me think he wanted to cruise the neighborhood to find him. And that he did!
You know, that eyewitness who saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, which is when I believe there was a struggle for the gun , didn't seem to understand the seriuosness of the fight because he told "him" to stop it or he would call the police. "Him" being Trayvon, I take it. After he went into his house is when I believe Zimmerman got a good hold on his gun and Trayvon was backing off screaming for help. The other witness (link below) said the cries stopped after the gun went off. At the 2:06 mark it is reported that she said Zimmerman was the one who was crying out for help and no one did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk&feature=related
Bill Shaeffer is surprised there was no arrest.that night, too.
Let's see if we can put a clickable link in ...
Sherry's link
Sherry~~I wish all these eye witnesses would take a polygraph test. I heard Mary, the short haired blond give an account earlier in this case and it seems now she is adding more details.
Bill Sheaffer says that the law does not stand because Zimmerman pursued Trayvon. I heard that because the 911 dispatcher was a civilian and not a police officer, his word didn't carry that much weight. You would never guess who said that????
This is quite interesting but one little drawback, this kind of evidence is not admissable in a court of law. Nothing is every cut and dry eh?
2 forensic experts say it's not George Zimmerman crying out for help in 911 call
Snoopy, my guess is that Baez said that. I didn't listen to his assessment of the case but the convo was that he thinks Zimmerman will walk free, no? heheh. Will he dare to take the case?
I don't buy into the hype either way. A lot of people talk as though they know when they only base their opinion upon the media which has already been proven to be providing biased photos and information. My suggestion is to force the police and outside authorities to investigate this honestly and in a court of law but refrain from stating opinions as facts.
Fact is that none of us know the complete story. The facts come out in a grand jury or court trial. The media has been proven to have portrayed an incomplete and edited 911call that sounded more racist than it was. Why did the media use photos of Trayvon provided from several years ago. The media needs to do an accurate fair portrayal instead of attempting to incite the public. But then our media is no longer in the role of honest broker, and bends their story for more profits and eyeballs.
I must say that the media published photos of Trayvon that were supplied by his family. All they had to work with were the ones of a younger Trayvon. As for Zimmerman, the first photo that was published was the one from his arrest record, which is public property. Until his family offered new ones, that's all that was available.
Give me a break D.G. are you for real.
1st of all, this blog links to all corroborative evidence.
Where's your link to the "proven" media distort of the 911 call?
2nd - It is a FACT that Zimmerman shot Trayvon, a FACT that Trayvon was on his way home and a FACT that George got out of his car with a GUN - or is the media making up That call too (the one where Zim was told police were on the way and he did not need to pursue the John Doe).
Finally, I concur on one thing - the Media has to do a fair and honest portrayal. Those stories finding fault with Trayvon, talking about him being a bad youth is such Bull [c]hit.
Or do you think we have the right to shot anyone that makes us suspicious or upset?
Good thing I don't have the same piss poor value system as you portray
Your pissing me off.
FYI ~~
One reason that I and many others have been faithful contributors to Dave's blog for over three years now is because we are all allowed to voice our opinions in a civil manner. Unless we look at both sides of the coin, are we really being fair? Emotions are running high in this case and we will not agree on many things but let's show courtesy to those who have a right to voice how they feel.
Thank you, Snoopy. I was a bit predisposed for awhile. There's no reason why a respectful exchange can't be agreed upon.
David G, were yo uso upset about the Casy Anthony coverage? If not why? Zimmerman has never been arrested and had the media not got involved no one would have ever heard about this case, there would have been no arrest and all the injustices done by the police department and DA would never have come to light. It took a blogger on the Huffington Post a month to get the media to even start covering this as they were ignoring it because it wasn't a cute white girl. It blew up when people heard the cry's for help and the shot fired. Sure some of the media is sensationalizing stuff as they do in all cases like this even OJ, but they are also keeping the public informed so they can keep pressure on the authorities. The public now has more current photos from the media of the two involved and I don't see that that has changed much especially since the voice recognition experts who the Police never called and should have, are saying it was Trayvon and not Zimmerman crying for help. Sure we need to let the Grand Jury do it's thing but without the media that NEVER would have happened. This blog is doing the public a real service by helping us see how the property is laid out so we can make our own decisions and put pressure on authorities if we feel we should. A young man who had no history of violence is dead and the person who killed him has three known instances of violence. That alone is an eye opener. Zimmerman probably will walk because the law is flawed but at least Zimmerman will have taken a hit in public opinion since the laws in Florida were unjust. If someone had stalked my child I would have told them to fight like hell and scream for help. Doing so should not be a green light for a violent over zealous person to blow them away especially with them crying for help.
So Snoopy, D.G. is allowed to make baseless allegations like this
D.G. makes a finding of fact "that it is only media" - links of police photos, released 911 calls etc - are not just media - it is Evidence.
and D. G. remarks like this that are not in touch with the realities of tyranny, cronyism and corruption
and then D.G. makes erroneous Allegations of Fraud like this
"Where's D.G's LINKs to PROVE his allegations"?
Finally, my ending remark was a denote of how absurd the whole banter comment is. The remarks that the media is biased for inciting the mob is bull. It took sledgehamming the facts (undeniable) for more than a month and 1 million online Petition signatures - to get Proper media attention to this story. The whole reason we are all upset - is that any reasonable person can see that there is bad faith dealings here on the part of the authorities. As well as profuse erroneous statements from Zimmerman.
What my last stern statement was - is a Warning of how absurd the premise is - that Zimmerman had ANY right to shot Trayvon.
If we can all make up excuses to get into a battle and then claim self defense to kill
There are many people that are going to die as soon as that whacked premise takes hold.
Snoopy-
First, I certainly agree with all you said, just above- Y'All be nice to each other now!
Secondly, you asked for a tag on where exactly on the 911 audio (link above) we hear "F##k'n coons" out of Zimmerman. That would be at 2:21-22, right before the dispatch guy picks up on it and asks him if he's still following TM. I'm betting the dispatch guy heard it clear as a bell on his end and sensed this was going bad fast. It IS low, muttered under his breath, but there it is: a "k" sound, an "oooh" sound, an "n" sound, wrapped up with a "sss" at the end. Not "goons", not "cold", but "coons".
Actually, more at 2:22-23.
I also hear what sounds like a clicking sound, like a gun being checked.
Given the number of times you forgot your /sarc tag, and the drastic inaccuracies you have posted--some of which were publicly known to be false prior to you posting, some of which have been corrected since then--I presume you will revisit this issue and correct yourself.
[And I presume you will provide proof that the inaccuracies were publicly known by me and other media outlets prior to my posting this article?]