Taking the Taaffe Tour at Twin Lakes
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 at 3:20PM Right from the start, some of my closest friends have been quite ardent about George Zimmerman’s innocence. This opinion, of course, comes from their own beliefs on gun control and Second Amendment rights, with (perhaps) a sprinkle of racism thrown in. I don’t believe my friends are racist, though, and there’s no way to prove otherwise unless they come right out and say so. And they won’t. Just like George. And I guess it’s more convenient to believe a guy who can speak instead of a dead boy who cannot. Take the easy path and stick with the crowd.
That’s part of what this post is about. Could Trayvon have taken an easier path home that night? I’ll get to that.
Like I was saying, there are two sides of the coin and I would NEVER assume any of my friends are racist just because they believe Zimmerman’s account of events, despite his ever-changing stories. Was Trayvon running or skipping? It doesn’t matter. It was George Zimmerman’s God-given right to defend himself. Yeah, well, it was Trayvon’s, too.
I have plenty of friends who feel the exact opposite about Zimmerman; that he stalked and murdered Trayvon, and they are quite adamant in their belief, too. Simply stated, odds are, you’ll find more white male Republicans in support of George than you would white female and black male/female Democrats, and that’s just the way the cards fall. Will last week’s mass murder of first grade school children, teachers and an administrator, not to mention the killer’s own mother, have any effect on the way we think about guns? Will it soften any of Zimmerman’s fans?
I doubt it. Besides, buying an assault rifle is about as simple as buying a pack of cigarettes. Same day service. When will that ever change?
But getting back to racism and all, my friends are still my friends and I’m always eager to make new ones. Recently, I had an opportunity to talk to Frank Taaffe at some of the hearings. We chatted about different things like his DUI and the recent death of his son. Now, no matter what you think about him, his DUI was dropped and his son was still his son. You should also understand that meeting people in person and getting to know them doesn’t always match the persona they exude on the TV screen. Believe what you want, but my perception of Frank is different than yours. I’ll leave it at that.
Since the fall of the housing market, prices of units have dropped an astounding 67% inside the Retreat at Twin Lakes according to Frank. Homes that sold for $250,000 six years ago are now sitting in the low $100s. (See source) Foreclosures are not uncommon. Crime has increased. The pattern is not unusual here, but as sellers move, with no buyers in sight, plus the foreclosures, renters move in and the once private community moves closer to looking like an apartment complex than anything else. From what I could tell, people living there seem to keep a watch on things, but not always. For instance, prior to the shooting, there were 11 burglaries in 15 months. In the past 4 months, there have been 5, including two last week. In one case, it was the second time the occupant’s house was broken into. In August, he was robbed of a 60” television. This time, it was 4 family laptops, Frank said.
Across the street from the recent burglaries, his neighbor was broken into, too, and a 56” television was stolen IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. Along with the TV, a Glock 9mm pistol was taken. This is another reason why guns should remain under lock and key, especially if the owner is out.
There have been several drug busts for heroin and cocaine, too, and it’s never pleasant when a SWAT team comes banging down doors only a few houses away from you. More than once. That’s what Frank faced.
This is all very exasperating and I can understand why community morale has dropped. Crime is rampant everywhere, of course, but we tend to remain focused on our own little world, wherever that may be. That’s why I completely understand a guy like Frank Taaffe. By saying I understand him, I’m not saying I completely agree with him. Of late, the break-ins at the Retreat at Twin Lakes seem to be taking place during daylight hours. While Taaffe concludes they are perpetuated (specifically) by “young BLACK males,” emphasis his, with no witnesses in sight, there’s no way to verify these claims. Therefore, it is baseless to mention color, but I can understand his frustration and that of his neighbors.
Inside that gated cluster are people who care about their homes and the quality of life there. They want a safe community, like everyone else. But is crime really higher there than it is in any other gated community in the Sanford area? It depends on who you ask and who is doing the talking. According to Crimestoppers, there were two burglaries inside the Retreat — one on Dec 12 and one the following day, both between 3:00 and 7:00 PM. During that same time frame, date-wise, there were a total of 33 crimes committed in Sanford. Since August, there were five burglaries inside the Retreat, just like Frank said, plus an assault, a theft/larceny, and two fraud cases. We’re not talking about a large development, folks, and I found no similarly gated community with matching crime rates during the August through December period. Non-gated? Different story.
§
Following is a video shot from inside the Retreat at Twin Lakes, with Frank Taaffe as the guide. What you gather from it is up to you, but he was a very gracious host. While he explains a shorter, more convenient path Trayvon could have taken to get to his location, you can judge for yourself. Included in the video is a map, which is also found embedded below the video, on this post.
One other item, if I may… I have a thing or two to say on the matter of race. Whether we are yellow, red, black or white, there is only one race. Period. We may have ethnicities, but we are all part of the human race. If we were ever attacked by creatures from outer space, how quickly we’d realize that; and consider this the next time a friend or loved one is in need of a blood transfusion. Would anyone really care who donated it in a life or death situation? That’s the black and white question du jour.
Interested in another point of view? Please listen to DeeDee’s interview with Bernie de la Rionda, taken on April 2, 2012.
Dave Knechel | in Burglary, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Frank Taaffe, George Zimmerman, Human Interest, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon Martin, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (26)
Ok I stopped watching right at the very beginning. I'll probably go back to watch it later on. But from the very beginning I have an issue with Taafe's attitude about why would Trayvon take one route over another. I've never listened to much about Taafe, so have no opinion on him one way or another.He said "why would he be standing there looking around?" He probably wasn't that familiar with all the routes as Taafe is because he didn't live there, he was just visiting.I don't visit relatives often and when I do I try walking a bit when things get boring, as Trayvon was probably doing. It's complicated, so I just take the route I'm familiar with, the one we drove in on, and that's probably the reason he went the way he did. The easiest route to me is the one he took even though it was a longer way. On that map it actually looks shorter. Do we know if he was a regular visitor to that apartment, and if he even knew of another easier way to get there? When he was stopped looking around, he was probably just getting his bearings and then deciding to just take the route most familiar to him. The way he did take offered shelter at the mailbox also, another factor.
The times you mention for the daytime breakins scream "teenagers" to me more than black or white. A person has to use common sense and not just lay blanket blame. Right after my daughter moved in here she had a home invasion across the street and right next door to her. She quickly noticed it happened when there were no cars visible in the driveway, so she keeps hers out of the garage at all times. She also answered the door on the first knock/ring or just yelled "who is it", and wasn't bothered anymore. She worked at night and the breakins occurred around 3 in the afternoon.. school kids. Since they've cleaned up a gang or two up here it's pretty quiet in Jacksonville. I lived in a gated apartment complex also that had at least a murder a year for a while there, and one drive by shooting. It was usually druggie on druggie. One Jacksonville Sheriff's officer told me the crooks like living in gated communities.
I'll go back to your video with Taafe but right now he's just aggravating me.
Well here I am revising my comment by commenting again. Sorry for that but by the time I was finished typing it had timed out.
If Trayvon Martin was noticeably caucasion standing there at the corner of the lawn looking around, would George have even noticed him or thought he was "up to no good". Somehow I think not. I'm convinced he was profiled, and even more so after listening to Taafe.
I went back and watched the rest of the video.. well most of the rest. I never really had an opinion of Frank Taafe before now. He's irritating to me.He seems to want us to believe he knew Trayvon was a bad kid, and we just don't know that. After watching the video, though, I can see how he might have looked fishy, but it probably couldn't be helped since he didn't live in the area. If Zimmerman had just followed procedure and kept an eye on him he would have eventually seen he wasn't "up to no good".
On a personal level I have a feeling the criminals are living in the complex already either as renters or as one who is living with renters/home owners. That's why "they always get away".
You did a good job on the video and had more energy and patience that I would have had.
[I agree that Taaffe is looking at this as if everyone visiting the Retreat is as familiar with the routes as he is. I disagree with his opinion on that. I also find it difficult for adults to look at Trayvon as an adult and treat him as such. When I was a mere 17, I did some pretty senseless things. What makes him any difference? Because he's black? I just don't get it, Connie. To me, it makes those people less mature than Trayvon, because they have no concept of children. Sadly, most of them are parents, too, yet they treat this kid differently. Why?
If we look at those routes, the two main ones, which includes the alleged route Trayvon took and the one Frank suggested, I don't find that much of a difference. In my opinion, the northern route would seem safer because of the perception of activity near and around the clubhouse and mailbox pavillion. How wrong that was! And in the rain, the pavillion would serve as a haven, especially when on the phone. Then there's the strange dude who was following him. Imagine what might have happened if he had taken the southern route; all alone in the darkness. Oh... WAIT! Something did happen to him.
You make a great point about the break-ins. Most likely teenagers, regardless of color. Color shouldn't matter, and you're right - Had Trayvon been a white kid, I doubt he would have stood out at all. Yes, he was profiled, but it's way too tough to call it racism, let alone prove it.
Had Zimmerman just followed procedure... What a joke, but there's nothing funny about it, sadly.
The robbers could be living there OR they could just let pople in. Either way, it's easy to get into that place. Just follow a car inside. School kids could walk in through the gate, do their work, and all exit in the car.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. It plum wore me out, too. I'm not in good shape, but I'm a trouper.]
Dave: I found that to be very interesting. I so wanted to hear his answer about the bushes, that I was disappointed when you had to stop!
It's obvious that Taaffe swallows everything Zimmerman says hook, line and sinker; no questions asked. If Zimmerman said it, it must be true--according to Frank. : - (
The truth is, we don't know for a certainty which short cut Trayvon used, or if he did use the front gate. Early in the case, Mr. Martin said that he thought Trayvon had come in through the gate--so maybe he had given Trayvon his pass.
Still we will probably never know for sure even where Zimmerman first saw Trayvon.
In some of Zimmerman's initial interviews he talks of 'pulling over to the side of the road'--no mention is made of parking at the clubhouse. Whether or not he ever did park there is another thing that may always allude us.
All that talk about the blunt makes it pretty obvious where Taaffe reads, when he is not busy on his 'Twitter.'
I guess his point about Trayvon taking the road--i.e. the 'long' way--was to suggest that Trayvon was 'up to no good.'
Puleeze! Contemplate a kid that had only been in the neighborhood a couple of times prior. I've been looking at those paths for months now, and I still find them confusing. Plus, there was 'heavy' rain during the time Trayvon was returning from the 7-11, and it was very dark.
I did appreciate it, though. Thanks so much for taking your time to do that.
(I thought the club house was very nice; really I think the whole 'community' is attractive.)
Someday I hope Taaffe and Zimmerman both grasp the idea that you have no right to take someone's life--even if they steal your TV. The commodities are not of equal measure. iykwim
[I may get his theory about the bushes in the future, nan11, but he did say Trayvon could have squatted behind one. It was dark. He could have lurked behind one of the firewalls separating the units, too. I, however, do not believe Zimmerman's account of events, although Frank does. That's his call. Mine is different.
I do seem to remember something about pulling over to the side of the road at some point, but that could have been when he stopped near the T. I don't know, but I would like to sync the NEN call to the walk Trayvon took according to Zimmerman.
That clubhouse amazed me. I also found the entrance route allegedly taken by Trayvon to be interesting. I think that, had the boy thought about taking the southern route, Zimmerman's vehicle spooked him and he decided to take the more safre route. Plus, it offered some cover from the rain. I also believe he could have gone behind the clubhouse and come out through the mailboxes. That could be when Z first lost him.
Excellent point, BTW, about taking someone's life for stealing. I understand the castle doctrine, but the Retreat WAS NOT Zimmerman's castle. Some may beg to differ with me, but that's the law. Black children are not part of a shooting gallery and Zimmerman was not a police officer. Thanks! ikwym.]
Oh for pete's sake. This is a little OT, but they really need to get rid of the stand your ground law.!! ... Standing your ground over pizza
[HOLD THE PEPPERONI! How ridiculous. Only in Florida. Over a delay of pizza. I hope the guy bakes in the prison oven.]
Dave, your patience and fairness are admirable. Like conniefl, I could not watch the entire video and will have to come back. Taaffe makes assumptions of what Trayvon should have thought and done, and that, IMO, demonstrates someone with superiority complex.
Does Taaffee know whether Trayvon was totally familiar with the routes in that entire community? Also, I noticed that Taaffe disagrees with the FBI on where Trayvon entered. Does Taaffe know that the State has the clubhouse videos and what they provide? They may not show Trayvon entering, but they certainly show Trayvon walking by the game room, and a vehicle slowly following him.
From the portion I did watch, Taaffe is putting the blame on Trayvon, holding him responsible for GZ's profiling, following in his truck, then following on foot when Trayvon ran, and eventually, firing a hollow point bullet into the heart of a barely 17 yr old teenager.
NW justifies watching, but it has rules. Do not follow. Do not carry a weapon. Property can be replaced. Human life cannot.
[I am a patient man, Xena... that, I am. But I have no problem with Frank. We both agree to disagree. He does seem to believe everything that Zimmerman has said, though, and I would never buy into anyone's story lock, stock and barrel. No one, no matter which side of the fence I'm on. In this case, there is no other story because the other side is dead. Thank goodness for DeeDee. That's why O'Mara will do everything (AND I MEAN EVERYTHING!!!) to destroy her.
Yes, Frank is blaming Trayvon for everything. That cannot be true of a boy holding candy and soda, and not burglary tools. To think otherwise is simply foolish.
Zimmerman was really stupid that day, and to think he'd do it all again. I hope he has the opportunity to live it over and over again. And again and again. From a prison cell.
Thanks! I hope the video helps in some small way.]
Nice work Dave. I don’t agree but this is great.
Let me first ask, why didn’t GEORGE go out the south gate to Target? Seems much closer to me. Its Georges first steps that don’t appear to be truthful. Especially considering he had no money or credit cards on him. Then of course, the address story is unbelievable. So, I don’t buy anything that he says happens after.
What’s up with Taaffee saying, “George has already IDed him” at 2:05 before he had even gone through the gate? Hmmm…..
The ONLY person who puts TM in front of Taaffes is George. I have no reason to believe it actually started there. Too much coincidence for me that it just happened to be in front of his boys house, which George had also previously called to police to. What are the chances?
And if TM really looked suspicious, or was up to no good, why was he walking leisurely in the middle of the street as Taaffes says (I thought he was looking into houses? From the street?)? Forget all the wild theories about the direction he took, which cannot be proven, we have George words, confirmed by Taaffe.
If youre scared, you still act like a scared human being? LOL. Like hopping out of running after a stranger in the dark?
Im summary, if you forget Georges lies, everything George and/or Dee Dee reported TM did, happen. He DID run away from George, per him. He DID end up right near his home, where his body was found. So these things appear true. The fact that he didn’t get to his home doesnt mean he didn’t intend to get there. We know a guy with a gun impeded his progress.
Regarding your comments about his wanting to feel safe because of petty crime in one's neighborhood, I live in downtown Philadelphia. Theres much more crime here, there much more likelihood of random violence, and we have one of the highest murder rates in the country. I have never felt like I was in danger or needed to follow and shoot people I don’t know based on other incidents. Its very easy to avoid if you want to. George, Not TM was clearly looking for trouble. And you know what they say about looking for it. If you dont SEE someone breaking the law, you have absolutely NO right to do ANYTHING Tugboat did. Regardless of the “crime” in the area.
And real-estate in FL was effected by the recession as bad as any state in the country. Its not Trayvons fault that piece of shit Taaffe made a poor investment decision. The Retreat is NOT Beverly Hills. It wasnt worth much in the first place. Does anyone really think the property value would be better if people knew about Taaffes criminal past? Im trying to be nice here, but from my perspective hes the lowly thug driving prices down as much as anyone. Look at what happened after he and George were exposed. Its gone down much further. Ironic.
[Thank you, MANBERK, and it's great to see you again!
Of your assessment, there's no need to regurgitate what you wrote. I agree with you completely, except for one minor detail. The Target store is a superstore, meaning groceries, and it's actually north and slightly west of the Retreat, so the north exit is the best and smartest route to take. However, it is completely strange that the guy says he was on his way there with zero cash and no credit/debit cards. That means his entire story is untrustworthy. It's great of you to point these things out again. It's VERY important to keep in mind.
I guess with my take on crime in the area, yes, it's everywhere, but, like you wrote about downtown Philadelphia, you keep an eye more on your own neighborhood than anywhere else. I love Philadelphia, BTW, and hope to visit it when I come up. When I come up.]
Frank said this and Frank sais that. Other than this drunks word, where is the proof of these robberies? Holding up a flyer is not proof. Has it ever acured to you that these people are making these claims in order to help justify Zimmermans barbarism? If you can declare blacks to be suspicious and then hunt and kill them, then blacks have the right to hunt don't whites who appear racist and put bullets in them. A long list could be compiled of the crimes whites commit against swarthy/dark people on a daily basis. A drunk and Zimmermans other sychopants crying about what allegedly happened to them is as laughable as it is absurd. Martin committed no crime. Martin had a right to walk in the rain, run in the rain, skip in the rain, or even crawl in the rain. Martin had the right to take any route he damned well pleased to get home without having right to life, liberty and property violated. Yes, Dave blacks have rights too. This backhanded attempt to say in a round about way that Zimmerman is justified in Murdering someone because you find his number one fan to be a "gracious host' and well there is crime in the neighborhood is pathetic and insulting.
[Hi, Eric! In my article, I actually researched what Frank said about crime, and it proved him to be correct. Look for the paragraph and the link to "Crimestoppers." I wouldn't be so quick to lump Frank and Zimmerman together. Frank hasn't been in touch with the defendant since the arrest, and I'm sure their opinions differ on things.
Yes, Trayvon had his rights that night, and Zimmerman took them away. He needs to be held accountable, which he will, in a court of law. As for my assessment of Frank, you can think what you want of me, but I hope you understand which side of the fence I'm on. I will talk to everyone I can about this case and in this situation, Frank has been very good to me, despite knowing where I stand. What should I have done? Spit on him or treat him the way Zimmerman treated Trayvon?
I hope you understand my point of view. I'm not out to destroy anyone when they can be capable of doing it on their own. Watch a presidential debate. You know who comes out smelling like a rose and who doesn't, but to slam the door shut is just plain wrong. Thanks, I appreciate your opinion and hope to hear from you again.]
Dave I'm sorry but from the comments I've read so far I think I'll skip watching the video. I mean no disrespect but being white,old,christian and a Republican means I have very little patience with the race issue. We are created by ONE God and our soul has no color.
My faith is based on the Book,we don't celebrate christmas as a relegious holiday because scripture does not tell us when Christ was born and because no one knows that date it doesn't instruct us to celebrate His birthday. We are instructed to celebrate His rising from the dead on the first day of the week when we come together,to sing,to pray, to hear the word,to give of our means and share the emblems of His body & blood. This doesn't mean I have no respect for other peoples beliefs. Many of my friends don't share my beliefs,that doesn't make them any less friends.
OK I'm off my soap box.
This was a good article and you surely have the patience of Job.
[We all have our beliefs, Tommy's Mom, and I honor and respect yours. My grandfather was a preacher and all were welcome in the church he served. I hold those tenets near and dear to my heart.
Thanks for the compliment. I enjoy doing what I do, and if I can show both sides what it looks like inside that community, let them decide. You'll notice that there was no editing of the video. The whole thing is open to interpretation, but I doubt it helps Z's side all that much.]
Thanks Dave ...interesting vt...................
[My pleasure, ecossie, and thank you. It is always an honor to hear from you. Thank you!]
How does buying an alleged "blunt" make you a suspected robber?
All this video proved to me was Mr. Taffee has profiling issues too. And his comment in regards to the woman at the end of this short clip tells me a lot! I perceive Mr. Taffee to hold everyone that is not a white male as a second and third class citizen.
I was appalled at his name calling of this woman. What if instead of calling her the "B" word, he simply said to you, "oh, she's probably tired of all the media attention so let's go and give her peace of mind."
Or something to that affect. I can't help but wonder how he would have reacted if it had been one of his white male peers who reacted the same way to the intrusion of their property.
I echo the thoughts of others about Trayvons' route. He was free to go ANY route he desired and could skip, walk or crawl the entire way. Zimmerman should NEVER have gotten out of his truck and hunted, (yes hunted) down his prey.
Thanks for the video. Now we know.
[Hi, Sarah - I would totally ignore the blunt commentary. There's no proof whatsoever and anything written about it is pure speculation and unreliable. The treestump dedicated an article "proving" absolutely nothing. Also, in the video, I could have told Frank the world would end on the 21st, but common sense told me otherwise. Take it like that, with a grain of salt peppered with minced bologna.
I think, what we have to do, is to look through what Frank said and go with what we think and how the video fits into the equation - with or without the sound. This could work either way; to help or hinder the defense. I choose the latter, but what do I know? All I know is that it is something I choose to do to help people understand the case. Yes, now we know. Thank you, and I'm glad it helps!]
Thanks for the video, Dave. It is a great help when looking at other videos and trying to correlate GZ's fairy tales with reality.
Did you happen to ask Taafe what he meant, when he said, "By then George had already ID'd him". Does this mean that GZ believed that TM was one of the kids who he believed was committing these alleged burglaries they've been spouting off about and essentially increasing in number on an almost daily basis? Taafe is trying to make a case for GZ after the fact in order to bolster his claims of burglaries and his right to be suspicious of TM despite the fact that he wasn't doing anything wrong the night he killed him.
I applaud your patience with FT as I wanted to turn off the video several times rather than have to listen to him, but I made it through and appreciate the work you did. Thank you!
[Hi, Kate1230 - My pleasure!
I am convinced that Frank was speaking for himself and not Zimmerman, and he had plenty of time to formulate his thoughts on the matter in order to defend his friend. However, I do think that Frank holds some allegiance to Z because of the time Z stopped someone from breaking and entering his home while he was out. I imagine I would show support, too, but I'd have to say WHOA! when it comes down to shooting someone to death. That's the difference between me and Frank. I would mind my tongue and leave it alone; at least to a greater extent than he is. Just remember, the bottom line is that what Frank says won't amount to a hill of beans during the trial, unless Z is convicted. Then, he'd be nothing more than a character witness and that could go anywhere with de la Rionda doing the questioning.
To be honest, I don't mind Frank at all. I will say this about him. Once he likes you, he's a dedicated friend. No matter what, that's something in his favor. I may not agree with him on several things, but everyone has honorable traits. Even Hitler loved his trusted German Shepherd. But I'm not comparing.
Thanks, I really do appreciate your comment.]
Dave, Doing this walk with Frank Taaffe was a good thing to happen. Imo, he unknowingly has illustrated his true character. Nice, pleasant, accommodating, of course. He tried to be casual, helpful and briefly agreeable with a couple of your differences. However, again, imo Taaffe also illustrates that he has absolutely no remorse that a young black male, Trayvon Martin, was shot and killed.
His emphasis on break-ins and burglaries offer cover-up for a deeper feeling of detest for young black males, and old. Absolutely NO indication from Taaffe that George Zimmerman could have accomplished his "concern for the neighborhood" without stalking, instilling fear, and point blank shooting one in the heart. Not one word that it all could have been avoided and should have been.
Actually from Dee Dee's statement to the state officer I now wonder more than ever if Taaffe might have, himself, been in a position to have also intimidated Trayvon. Very interesting how Taaffe is so adamant about how Trayvon should have taken a certain direction, as if to say that is why he brought all this on himself and George Zimmerman did no wrong in his pursuit. No mention that George Zimmerman should not have been armed and used it for the purpose he did against Trayvon Martin. Doing this does not in any way place you in a position of supporting either Taaffe or Zimmerman. I certainly do not believe it will be helpful to the defense, and most likely leave more feeling that Frank Taaffe possibly was more an enabler of Zimmerman, (encouraging him
to activate more authority as NW) For some reason, I can't explain, but George Zimmerman may have somewhat fallen under Taaffe's spell, be more aggressive, like "get out here and these SOB's George"! George may have been influenced by Frank Taaffe but it does not make him any less guilty. Was a good walk through!
[I certainly agree with you, New Puppy, about Frank showing himself, whether one agrees with him or not. And he WAS accommodating. I think it was a good thing that he showed his colors. I showed mine, too, and I have since I began writing about this case.
As for Frank being a part of the situation that night, there is no indication from law enforcement or anyone else that points to anyone other than George Zimmerman, who has stated he acted alone. None of the on-site witnesses saw anyone else, either, and some people believe Mark Osterman was there all along. There is no evidence that substantiates anyone else's involvement.
Frank never gave me the impression that he had any interaction with Trayvon whatsoever. The only thing that we have in this video and the last one comes from his statements. Is he racially prejudiced? I won't say, because my job was to present him, not judge, but I think everything he said is open to interpretation. Keep in mind, though, that the only thing Frank had to offer was his opinion and nothing more.
As for spells, it seems that Zimmerman fell more under Osterman's spell and I wonder if this whole mess could have been avoided had that not happened. You may find it interesting that Frank is no fan of Osterman's, either. I think I know why. Just like I said, I wonder what would have happened had Z never met O.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the walk-through. The whole video was an eye opener. Just remember, your opinion counts, like everyone else's. This is why we discuss the case. Without it, the blog is nothing.]
You know Dave, I think you are right! I had kind of forgotten about Osterman, he was the one who would have prompted George's ego to grow into a killer. Hadn't heard much about Osterman for weeks. Still disappointed in Taaffe as a citizen not to have uttered anything remorseful, as most people do. Ex: "Really sad, for something like this to have happened" You know what I mean, I'm sure but I don't have to hear it for it to be there. I'll give it up to that. Thanks for reminding me of Osterman.
[I think it's plain and simple. Frank is what he is. What you see is what you get. Take it or leave it. By that, I mean there's nothing pretentious about him, and I do appreciate his candid manner. Some people avoid conspiracies and the like. He hits them head on and he doesn't mind the spotlight at all. Osterman, on the other hand... well, you have to be somewhat crooked to do what he does. You know, like selling guns to Mexican drug cartels - not that he's involved in it, but I think you know what I mean. They can be very underhanded.]
Great video, Dave; thank you for taking the time to make it, and I'm grateful that Taafe was willing to give you a guided tour. He's had multiple opportunities to prove himself a racist, but he is not Trayvon's killer nor has he, AFAIK, been accused of aggressively or violently confronting anyone. As such, it's easy enough for me to ignore his commentary about Trayvon while watching the video.
I can't get over the formal appearance of the clubhouse interior; definitely not furnished with the idea of children or teenagers in mind!
[Thank you, nemerinys. It was a pleasure to bring it to you. Frank was quite accommodating and, for that, I am appreciative. He has never been accused of any crime in this matter, either, unless someone wants to think that sparring on-air with Nancy Grace is a crime. Yes, as I have said in previous comments, just don't listen to him if you don't want to hear him, but I think his thoughts give an insight into the crime. Good or bad.
I don't really know of any clubhouse that's geared for children, but I am guessing that this one was built during better times. The pool is open to children, but I believe the clubhouse is mostly to use for private functions and must be approved by the HOA. Other than that, it looks like it's fine for a few games of pool. Frank and I should try that sometime. I used to be quite good. Hmm... the color of money...]
Ah, thanks for the correction Dave. I thought I read the Target was down west, or left on Rineheart. Seems the back entrance would let you out closer. But Ive never seen it on a map. I assumed.
Re: keeping an eye on the :your: neighborhood. Of course. And eye is fine. If somethings actually happening that needs an eye. Police cleared TM of any wrong doing. And George also never saw him doing anything wrong. So its fairly moot. If we get to the heart of the matter and removed these 2 players and all that can be associated with them, Georges behavior was wrong, uncivil, against the rules of NW, stupid, irresponsible and dangerous. I would venture to say if you asked any mature and rational adult if it was ok to actually follow strangers who were behaving :lawfully:, with a gun, 99% would say absolutely not. And certainly not them. But you throw in "neighborhood watch" and a perceived "thug" and suddenly the rules change. Not for me they dont. Georges behavior can only be described as threatening. And whatever happened, I know hes responsible.
Great contribution to the discussion! Thanks again. While I understand Taaffe doesnt necessarily speak for George, hes got some great information. Interesting the FBI doesnt think TM came in where GZ/FT say. Did he point down toward the front entrance? If so his path ( in the front, stops at the mailboxes) makes perfect sense. There were early interviews with Crump that have him mentioning TM coming in the front gate and entering the code.
[I was pretty sure I knew where the Supertarget store was located, MANBERK, from memory, but I did need to look it up to be on the safe side. The best way to get to it is to exit north onto Oregon, head west and then turn right on Rhinehart.
I understand neighborhood watch programs and neighbors in general wanting to keep watch over their territory. The problem with Zimmerman is that he watched way too may Death Wish movies with Charles Bronson, which were pure Hollywood. If anything, it was the complete opposite of the movie, with zimmerman playing the thug. Trayvon was doing nothing wrong. He asked for no trouble. While Frank says "we don't know that." I say "yes we do," because there is no proof otherwise. He said that Trayvon was looking into windows and I asked him how he knew. Because George said so. That's worthless in my mind because Zimmerman told the dispatcher he was "looking about." That's nowhere near the same thing, so you see, people like Frank turn the story whatever way they want it to work out. Half full becomes half empty and from there it goes to 49% and down, down, down into the abyss of negativity.
You're right. Trayvon was acting lawfully. Unfortunately, Zimmerman's supporters will say so was he. But where is the line drawn on common sense and human decency? Zimmerman put himself into that mess and only he is to blame. What I find to be so strange is that, even after all he's been going through, he regrets nothing and he'd do it all over again. Shoot to kill. That tells you a lot about the very strange and convoluted mind of George Zimmerman. He'll never be a cop - his lifelong dream - but it came with a deadly price and he still doesn't get it. I think he continues to want to be police chief of Sanford one day. A big hero.
Taaffe did have some good info, and any time I can get it, I'm going to go for it. While we certainly don't agree on everything, I find him to be friendly and likable. Biased? Yes, but not in all directions. As for which way Trayvon may have entered, it could have been through the gate. I just don't know, so I had to video from Zimmerman's perspective because that's all we have to go on - truth or not.
Thanks, I'm always open to great discussions!]
I hope it is okay if I address that a little bit. In part one of Zimmerman’s interview with Singleton on the night of the 26th, he told her:
Also in his written statement, Zimmerman wrote:
I find--particularly in the interview with Singleton--that he is implying that he pulled his car over to the side as he initiated the NEN call.
You make a very interesting point, though. As I re-read his written statement I noticed that right after he wrote that he had pulled over to make the call, he described seeing Trayvon flee to a darkened area. That occurred at about two minutes in of the NEN call—after Trayvon had left the mail area and entered the cut-through on TTL—just before Zimmerman got out his vehicle and began to pursue Trayvon on foot.
Quite possibly, that was a very early attempt to cover up his stalking of Trayvon.
Zimmerman actually only locked himself into his statement about parking at the clubhouse during the beginning of the re-enactment video, which was done in the late afternoon of the 27th. (iirc)
That would be really, really interesting if you were to sync the walk Trayvon took to Zimmerman’s NEN call.
It would be a tuffy, though; due to all the uncertainties of what route Trayvon took. It is just my opinion, but I believe that Trayvon did walk down Retreat View Circle at least for some distance. At about one minute, 11 seconds into the call, Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Tryavon had a button on his shirt. To me, that means he was relatively close to Trayvon at that point. Also, Zimmerman didn't get the color of Trayvon’s pants correct—almost as if he was so close he could not see them.
That terrifies me--just thinking about how close Zimmerman may have been at that point. Never mind the approximate one minute, eight second pursuit down TTL, and what was to come later.
Thanks again for all you do, Dave.
[I think Zimmerman stopped in the middle of the street or off to the side a little as Trayvon was initially noticed by him. Then, he crept along, like the vehicle did in the earlier video posted on my channel on Dec. 6. That's the one I'm going to sync with the NE call. One of the things the Zimmerdrunks don't get is that DeeDee said Trayvon wasn't running, so we should be able to safely assume he was merely walking while talking on his phone. On my latest video, a particular commenter has claimed that, because of his lankiness, his strut was long, but we have no idea if Trayvon took long strides or if he shuffled. I'm more inclined to think he shuffled, but I hope a new video interpretation will shed light on it. I'll try to work on that today.
I enjoy doing this sort of thing, nan11, but thank you for thanking me.]
Sorry to be back so soon, Dave. My last comment was bothering me because I think my timing is incorrect in my eleventh paragraph--beginning with "it would be a tuffy."
I confuse myself sometimes by thinking only about Trayvon's last call that began at 7:12 pm. I forget that he was on his cell almost continuously from about 6:54 pm.
Anyway, just to correct myself--at one minute, 11 seconds into the NEN call, when Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Trayvon had a button on his shirt--that would most likely have been during the one minute, eight second pursuit down TTL. I guess I would be inclined to think that Trayvon may have turned to face him.
While I'm here, I'll mention that I really don't believe he ever parked at the clubhouse. Besides his condictory statements which bring that into question, I'll add the following links, which are for pictures from imgur.
I know you don't favor the surveillance videos; but this link shows the range of the cameras from the clubhouse. And this one, points out that no vehicle at all showed up parked where Zimmerman said he was parked that night.
I don't know if you have ever seen this Vimeo video, by mirre. A huge amount of work went into it. The person compiled the surveillance videos from the clubhouse with Zimmerman's NEN call and the 911 call of Witness 18. She includes a 'real time' clock. It is very interesting to watch the light 'events' move about as Zimmerman is speaking to the dispatcher.
I know it is debatable. It is interesting food for thought, though.
Also, I looked up this You Tube video by LLMPapa. He aptly titled it "A Shortcut to the Beginning." He explores the two different short cuts Trayvon had to choose from. I think you have probably already watched it, but I thought it fits so well into the discussion that it might be worth a second look.
[I must say I'm iffy on the clubhouse videos because there are too many variables. Let's, for the sake of argument, give Z the benefit of the doubt and assume he parked at the clubhouse at some point. One, he could have parked out of camera view and, two, he could have kept his headlights off if he was trying to intimidate Trayvon. In that case, no car or shining headlights would have been seen.
Yes, mirre's video is food for thought, and I'd never seen it before, but something like this is too vague to put a lot of faith into. Certainly, the state won't use it because of the variables, and that's what matters most; actual evidence.
The link showing cameras is interesting. In the photo, one is marked K. Inside the clubhouse proper, I saw no such camera in that position. I could have missed it, but I doubt it. That would have been in the same main room (with the grandfather clock) as the camera I zeroed in on. I looked around, too.
I had seen LLMPapa's video before and wondered the same thing. Now, I look at it many other ways. While LLMPapa's route makes the most sense, why not just go to the front gate? That's one other way. Then, there's the way Taaffe mentioned; the southern route. OK, that was also viable. Suppose that was Trayvon's original intent, but the sight of Zimmerman sitting there in his vehicle, staring at him, intimidated him and he chose the alternate, better lit, and "safest" route. Of course, he could have chosen that way to begin with because of the mailbox pavillion as a place to cover up if the rain became too intense. It may have been the route he was most familiar with, too. Once again, there are too many variables, so it this point, the best way to reconstruct it is to take Zimmerman's words and go backward. In this manner, perhaps his story can be deconstructed. That's the way I am going to look at this mess. Hopefully, something will pop out that makes sense. That's why it's so important to keep feeding me (and all of us) as many links as you can find. And I thank you for it!]
Dave, you wouldn't lump Taafe and Zimmerman together? Why not? It's obvious that they are cut from the same cloth. If it's true that they haven't been intouch since Zimmermans arrest, I tend to believe that's at Zimmermans handlers insistence. The Taafe book is bad for business. I saw your paragraph and link about crime in that area. Those alleged facts still didn't Zimmerman give the right to hunt, corner, and destroy.
What should you have done you ask? Oh I don't know, maybe you should not have written an article that basically says according to the gracious, concerned, and accomodating Frank Taafe, who really isn't a drunk bigot, maybe Zimmerman was justified because hey,there was crime in the neighborhood you know. What should you have done? You could have asked the wife beater why his hero Zimmerman was able to make so many calls involving his home. According to them, they were under constant seige.
You hope I know what side of the fence you're on? Do you even know what side of the fence you're on? You are willing to give credence to the babbling of trash because he was very good to you. Taafe is in support of the murder of an individual because of what group the victim belonged to. This man is your new friend? Yikes! That puts a spotlight on where you stand. Maybe Zimmermans acolyte was so gracious and good to you because he picked up on the fact that you just might be on his side of the fence, despite where you claim to stand.
I would like to thank you for this video and interview. It has removed the last vestiges of scales from my eyes. There maybe only one race but there are many tribes. The pale tribe, like your friends who are ardent about Zimmerman being innocent, just don't get that others have rights too. How dare you even ask could Martin have taken a different more convenient route? What damned difference does it make? Martin had a right to his life, his liberty, and property. Trayvon didn't forfeit those rights because some drunk ( I know, I know he's sooo gracious and good !) and his trashy friends claim their home are constantly being targeted for theft.
What we have had brewing for generations is a low grade tribal war that needs to be settled once and for all. Will Martin get justice? With "supporters" like you and your "friends" I doubt it. But that's fine. Like I said before if blacks can be hunted down and killed because they are "suspicious", then whites can be hunted down and slaughtered because they are racist. And Maybe something like that will be the flashpoint to start the war to settle once and for all which tribes have rights and which ones don't.
[Eric, I'm not going to go into a lot of racial or political rhetoric or play any semantics games, but there are some things you said that just don't make sense. Are Reverends Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton cut out of the same mold? How about Minister Louis Farrakhan and Bishop T.D. Jakes? Your statement regarding Taaffe and Zimmerman being cut from the same mold makes no sense whatsoever and what you have done in your comment is to express your own blatant racism. That's the way I see it. You are lumping white people together and casting us out of your superior tribe, whatever a "tribe" is supposed to be. More on that, but...
I never justified the shooting because of the high crime. The ends do not justify the means and I did not imply that. You have twisted my words. And you have become your worst enemy. You call Taaffe a drunk bigot. He was stone sober the times I've met with him. However, what you have done by saying that is to do the same exact thing the Zimmerman supporters have done when they call Trayvon's father a drug addicted gang member from da hood.
Why would I want to ask Taaffe about anything related to his own personal life? To satisfy your hatred for him? You are just as bad. In reverse. You are a bigot. In reverse. Taaffe proffered his opinion, but that doesn't mean I bought into it. To you, I did. However, I am not closed minded.
Back to the tribe thing for a moment. What's up with that? I clearly stated we are all one race. You choose to split people into tribes, which pretty much leaves out anyone you dislike. That includes me, it seems. I admire people of all colors and do not distinguish them like you. I could easily take your words and put you in the same league as the KKK, only... in reverse. Tribes sounds so disconnected, as if we should be preparing for war. Is that what you are implying? Is there no room for others in your house?
What bothers me tremendously about your comment is to question which side of the fence I'm on. How ridiculous, and it's not worthy of discussion. However, for your benefit, I will tell you that, as a journalist/blogger, I will talk to opposing sides in any situation in order to get the whole picture. In your world, that's not the way it works, obviously, but on the positive side, you are discussing this with me, so it's a good thing.
I'll have you know that I had many requests from people to shoot the exact footage that I ended up with. You have no idea how much that helped people on Trayvon's side, so how dare you lump all of us "pale tribe" together at all, let alone being ardent about Zimmerman's innocence. I HAVE NEVER TAKEN THAT SIDE, AND TAAFFE IS WELL AWARE OF IT.
You, sir, are the racist, in my opinion. You had the audacity to call me and my "pale tribe" friends racist. How dare I ask any questions at all? How dare I suggest a different path? Why not? Who says Zimmerman was speaking the truth? DID I?
Take your tribal wars elsewhere. If you choose to comment here again, you need to learn how to live with the pale tribe. You have turned me into Zimmerman and that is highly offensive. I'm glad you don't live next door to me. You would have shot me by now.
Oh, one more thing... let the court system work this out. That is what your "tribal leaders" are asking for. Only, they don't consider themselves tribal leaders. They are a part of the human race, and they are REAL leaders, and not on a warpath.
I'm sorry, but something about this just rubbed me the wrong way. I am as fair as they come.]
Eric, You want to take away the right to have Liberty and Justice for All. The best about Dave is that he, no matter what his personal conclusions may be has always presented all possibilities for those of us who may question. This is the most fair way a man can be. The fact that he could have stopped your rant on his blog proves that. He has allowed you to come into his house and personally accuse him of unspeakable, untruthful ways. This is giving YOU much more "favoritism" than any presented in this post and video of a "one man's opinion walk of Frank Taaffe." You might say, "of course, you are just like him" Not at all. I can appreciate and respect the rights and reasoning of another person, yours included. It is the "presentation" that says the most about a person and you didn't do so well Eric. Personally, I have never read Dave's works and felt he ever "lumped" himself with anyone!
[I think the comment just rubbed me the wrong way, New Puppy, and I thank you for understanding and demonstrating where I come from. I try to be very fair when I go out asking questions. I cannot, for the life of me, just listen to one side. That would be completely unfair. I guess, the bottom line was that I hate to be lumped together with everyone else, especially Zimmerman and Taaffe. Thank you very much.]
Dave, surely you can see the similarities between Taafes attitude and Zimmermans. Taafe being sober when you spoke to him doesn't change the fact that he's a drunken,wife beating bigot. I never said you should ask Taafe anything about his personal life. Where did you get that? If you see hatred and bigotry in me, you are seeing what hatred and bigotry have created. I don't chose to split people into tribes. That's simply the reality. So, once again I will thank you for your latest work. The presentation has awakened me from my delusional haze. For that l'm grateful. Goodluck Sir, to you and your gracious friends with the honorable traits.
[I don't know, Eric. First, let me apologize for being so harsh. I jumped when I was put in the same category as Zimmerman and Taaffe. I am not! I didn't like being placed into a pale tribe, either, because I fully believe that only bigots would place people into tribes that separate us, like what Taaffe has done, a la, "young BLACK males." In essence, what you said was that I was a member of the pale tribe, or white male, so to speak, because I am certainly not young any longer. No offense there. I am getting old.
I could never imaging my grandfather, a preacher, ever welcoming the dark tribe into his church, where ALL were welcome. That's tantamount to profiling as much as you lumping me together with the likes of Taaffe and Zimmerman as part of some giant conspiratorial pale tribe out to get darkie. I assure you, I am not! Clearly, the most important part of my article came in the final paragraph. That is precisely where I come from and I can speak of myself with absolution.
As for those two? No, I don't think one is as racist as the other, although there's some highly skewed profiling going on. Taaffe did it (and does it) and Zimmerman did it the night of Feb. 26, but in his case, racism is a moot point because it will never be established as such. Taaffe point blank comes right out with it and says so.
Please, don't be afraid to comment here, but understand that I am the last person who would EVER categorize myself as a member of any tribe, and I hope you see why that bothered me. Thanks for responding. You are more than welcome here.]
Okay I was going to comment to Eric but New Puppy did a really great job of stating my sentiments exactly. So here's something to lighten the moods here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=ki8EcnVbd-Q
Tommy's Mom Link--Click Friendly
Precious!!!
Amazing job Dave,
I think Trayvon came in through the front gate. If he came down RVC, I think we would've seen him on one of the clubhouse videos. Deedee said he ran into the mail area, and the telephone cut of at that time. That would mean Trayvon was at the clubhouse around 6:54 at the latest. Gates close at 7 PM, so he wouldn't have needed a key.
Amazing job Dave,
I think Trayvon came in through the front gate. If he came down RVC, I think we would've seen him on one of the clubhouse videos. Deedee said he ran into the mail area, and the telephone cut of at that time. That would mean Trayvon was at the clubhouse around 6:54 at the latest. Gates close at 7 PM, so he wouldn't have needed a key.
Dave, thanks for the video. I for one, appreciate your hard work. Seeing footage of the area, helps to fit pieces of the puzzle together. You would think that George would of told one lie and stuck with it. Frank says that Trayvon circled his truck at the clubhouse, yet George gives a different version, in his reenactment. I can't wait for this case to go to trial. George Zimmerman deserves to be behind bars.
Interesting after all this time and after the trial how so many got it wrong and thought that Zimmerman had actually committed a crime. Emotions were high and logic was thin, luckily for GZ the jury got it right that day.