Either Way
Sunday, March 6, 2011 at 12:06AM While attending court on Wednesday, I noticed a big difference in how Casey’s defense presented itself as opposed to past hearings. It was a dramatic improvement. It was also the first time I saw Dorothy Clay Sims, the Ocala attorney who specializes in aggressive cross-examinations of medical experts. She joined Casey’s team in September of last year. We will be hearing much more from her as we approach the trial, I’m sure.
On Thursday, Judge Perry opened the hearing by admonishing the gallery. He reminded everyone he does not want to see any smirking or hear any snickering. This includes moans, sighs and any sort of reaction that deviates from quietly sitting still and behaving ourselves. One thing I admire about him is the manner in which he handles issues on the surface. He seems to be rather uncomfortable with singling any person or group out. I would imagine if and when it ever reaches that point, the person(s) on the receiving end won’t be happy.
Thus began the day filled with testimony from detectives, deputies, jailers and the two Anthony men. When I arrived on the 19th floor, I expected to see a good number of OCSO’s finest, and I did. The first one I noticed was Sgt. John Allen, the lead investigator of this case. We had warm greetings and a firm handshake as we crossed paths. If you recall, Sgt. Allen interviewed me in December 2009 and I’ve spoken with him several times by phone since then; the last call was made in November 2010 concerning an idiotic conspiracy being promulgated on another blog.
I have an awful lot of respect for Sgt. Allen for several reasons. He made me feel very comfortable during our initial meeting. He was professional and courteous. He knew how to ask the right questions and he allowed time to talk about other things of interest, some personal, but mostly about the case. For instance, when Casey was initially arrested and all leads pointed to finding a victim, he and over 100 law enforcement personnel continued to search around the country for a living Caylee. You could clearly sense his dedication, focus and concern. No one ever gave up hope until after her remains were found. What I walked away with that December day was a good understanding of the man and the challenges he faces every day. I recall how OCSO and other personnel were castigated by family members for not doing more to find Caylee, but I knew they were. All they wanted was the truth.
I also had an opportunity to speak briefly to Cmdr. Matt Irwin and Cpl. Yuri Melich. During a more lengthy break, I had a good conversation with another detective, Cpl. Eric Edwards. Great guys, all. Of course, nothing about the case was discussed. Actually, the police had to wait outside the courtroom for two days waiting to be called. It’s my understanding that during the entire time, they were in limbo. In other words, no working on any present investigations. Everything was on hold. It seems like so much wasted time, but such is the case when charges are filed and trials ensue. It comes with the territory.
Agents of the State?
Just like I wrote in my previous post, I do not intend to relate a play-by-play account of what transpired in the courtroom. I will proffer my thoughts on the overall scheme of events and what the defense was after. The day before, it was the Miranda warning. On Thursday, it was Agents of the State.
First off, I think the M.O. of a cop is pretty simple. Cops do what cops do. They investigate. They uphold the law. They do a lot more than that, but let’s just stick with investigating and upholding the law for now, especially when the defense questioned both job descriptions. I understand what Jose & Co. were engaging in and while Wednesday may offer them hope, I’m not all that sure about Thursday. Taking a look at one of the angles Jose pressed was how he took it personally when the detectives allegedly told George his daughter could have found a much better attorney. OK, fine. So what? As soon as Casey lawyered up, she wasn’t going to open up to authorities any longer. That’s a given. Who she hired meant nothing because any attorney worth his/her weight in salt would have severed direct communications with law enforcement personnel, so who it was and how good or bad the person was wouldn’t have mattered. Cops and criminal defense attorneys are like oil and vinegar. Anything the law wants to find out from that point on just ain’t gonna transpire.
Because police act the way they do, they usually try any trick in the book to find answers. That’s what private investigators do, too. Short of anything illegal, that’s the name of the game. If you ever watch COPS, you’ll know that any and all people involved in suspicious activity are questioned separately. More information is collected that way. In this case, detectives knew that George was once in law enforcement and, naturally, he would be a better fit when it came to collecting additional information. He understood the lingo. As for Lee… well, Lee is a different breed of animal, but I feel that law enforcement sensed his desire to pursue the field of investigative work. Whether he’s a cop wannabe or not, he created his own agenda. He sure played into their hands. Remember, Dominic Casey told him to work on becoming a PI. There were two willing family members with George and Lee. Where it gets tricky is when the OCSO detectives offered to pick up George and drive him to the county jail to see his daughter, knowing that Baez was out-of-town. That in itself is not a big deal, but it is sneaky. Still, it’s nothing illegal. Where it becomes an issue, in my opinion, is when the detectives told Jose under oath that driving George to the jail was not an official trip. It was only to help him find the truth.
Hold on for a second… Uh… Hmm. Not an official trip. It most certainly was an official trip for four reasons:
- It was a county vehicle filled with gas paid for by the county.
- It was tape recorded without George’s knowledge.
- George was accompanied by two detectives and one FBI agent.
- Everything law enforcement does related to an investigation is most certainly part of the investigation.
Astutely, Jose asked why they would tape record the trip if it was not part of an investigation. He asked if any of them had ever done the same thing for any other person. Was it done out of the goodness of their hearts? He also put one of his former attorneys on the stand. Gabriel Adam may have had a problem with attorney/client privilege, but he was quick to point out the strange goings-on at the jail that day. Why was he not allowed to see Casey until much later? Because the detectives were in the building, setting up an appointment with dear old dad.¹ In the end, she did not see her father that day, she listened to her attorney’s advice, but I still find something to be a little bit problematic. Why say it wasn’t part of any investigation when, in fact, it was? That’s what cops do, after all. Is it enough to win the motion for the defense? No, not in my opinion and I’ll tell you why. While little lies may come into play during the trial, at issue now is whether the Anthony family was surreptitiously swallowed up by law enforcement to, unwittingly, do dirty deeds at their behest. Did they become Agents of the State?
No.
As desperate as law enforcement was to find the answers, so were the Anthonys. On the stand, all members of the family said they would have done anything to bring Caylee home. This was long before she was found. As a matter of fact, here is a direct quote from George:
“I would have sold my soul to the devil to get my grandchild back.”
They were in complete agony, yes, but as far as I’m concerned, if the Anthonys were Agents of the State, those detectives were just as much Agents for the Anthonys. Yuri Melich and John Allen were the only security blankets the family had at the time, if not all of them, then certainly George. What those detectives did was what they do every day. Sgt. Allen summed it up nicely:
“We were doing this at their request but certainly anything that if we had got of evidentiary value we would have used it and turned it over to the prosecutors.”
Another potential issue is the letter Casey wrote to then Sheriff Kevin Beary. Did the detectives coerce George into convincing her to do it without Jose Baez’s knowledge? Even so, should it matter? No one twisted her arm, and the police had no direct contact. That’s why this “agent” thing is such a big deal to the defense. If they can link the police directly to Casey, it could, potentially, mess with attorney/client privilege. Sgt. Allen told Lee on numerous occasions that “she has an attorney, we can’t talk to her but you can.”
Will the defense win this one? I’m inclined to think not. Everything up to that point was done voluntarily, all players were adults, and they shared one common goal - to bring Caylee home. The Anthonys were willing to do whatever it took and, in the end, the bottom line is simple. The police work for us. Right?
§
One of the nice things about being able to sit in the courtroom is that there is so much more to see than what’s viewed on television. The added depth and dimension are huge advantages. Jose posed a hypothetical question to George. He wanted to know, if he was subpoenaed to testify in court next week, knowing that if he chooses not to attend, it would save his daughter’s life, what would he do? Linda Drane Burdick vehemently objected. The judge overruled and wanted to know George’s answer. He told the prosecutor it could be discussed in a sidebar after he answered the question. Jose asked him again. George replied that he would stay away from court and risk it all, including any form of punishment, if it meant it would save Casey’s life. He broke down on the stand and cried all the way out the door after he was excused.
Ultimately, the judge overruled the prosecutor again after the sidebar, but what you couldn’t see or sense on TV was the emotional state of the gallery at that precise moment in time. The cameras couldn’t show you the welling tears of some of the spectators. It was then that we really felt the agony inside of that man. It was real. For whatever you think of him, this is something we can never deny.
If the defense succeeds in acquitting Casey, one thing is certain. It will never be the same. As cruel and distant as she has become toward her family, who she ignores, she will most assuredly never, ever go back to Hopespring Drive and what she left behind. No, George, she may win, but you will never be able to go back. Either way, for you, Cindy and Lee, it will be a lose/lose situation. Caylee already lost.
I want to say hello and thank you to my courtroom friends on Wednesday and Thursday. I had planned on attending Friday, too, but I had other obligations that almost slipped my mind. Hello to Diana in Asheville! I wish we would have had more time to talk. To Gloria and Jim, I enjoyed our “lunch” together and I look forward to hearing from you soon. And to Melinda and Pam, I really, really enjoyed your company.
¹When Gabriel Adam was through testifying, including the cross-examination, Judge Perry took the unprecedented step of continuing to probe him about his visit with his client. This may not bode well for the State. Something got his attention.
Dave Knechel | in Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, Cheney Mason, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Cindy Anthony, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Dorothy Clay Sims, Eric Edwards, Frank George, George Anthony, Hopespring Drive, Human Interest, Jeff Ashton, Lee Anthony, Linda Drane Burdick, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, OCSO, Orange County Corrections Department, Orange County Jail, Orange County Sheriff’s Office, Sgt. John Allen, Yuri Melich, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (85)
WHo is Gabriel Adams please....
Gabriel Adam is an attorney. He began his career at the Baez Law Firm, but is now independent. While Baez was out of town, Adam went to visit Casey in jail. Baez employs several attorneys and his firm continues working on other cases.
Dave; I saw it the way you did. I had tears rolling down my face when George was asked about his love and loyalty to both Caylee and Casey. I was flabbergasted that Casey didn't shed a tear. Casey is as cold as ice. She only cares about Casey, IMO.
And Caseys' reaction to Lee; unbelievable. Let's just pretend for a second that Casey is innocent. If she was, then she should have understood that her brother was trying to get information about Caylee to help Casey and Caylee. Casey should have nodded with approval instead of sneering in disgust. And what's this about whose side was he on during Baez's questioning? Casey's side or Caylee's side? Really? There was always one goal; to find Caylee. There was no side!
I think Lee did a good job on the stand. (I notice that he chuckles sometimes. I think sometimes it's nerves and sometimes he does it if the answer is obvious to him.) I get tired of people making fun of him. To me, Lee and Caylee are the ultimate victims in this circus. I truly hope he and Mallory find a life filled happiness.
You probably think Baez did a good job. I think he's a showboater. He knows those cameras are there. He asked the stupidest questions, over and over again. (Yuri even had to remind him that he already answered the same question three times!) Then he was asking questions that were off topic. And the session seemed like it was all about him! He came across as unprepared and disorganized. And after he finished his examination he strutted around like a freakin' peacock. I wanted throw something at the TV.
Of course, we saw you several times in the gallery. I watch the TV and I'm on-line at the same time. The bloggers start asking who's who in the gallery. I think it's the Orlando Sentential that has a panoramic view of the courtroom. It seems small. I thought JP had a courtroom that also had a second tier (upper story) for the gallery? Is the courtroom for these hearings going to be the same courtroom that the trial will be held?
Thanks for going to the hearings. I know it's expensive with the damn gas prices what they are.
And thanks for the articles. Well done.
Hi Sarah, You said "Then he was asking questions that were off topic. And the session seemed like it was all about him!"
What is that all about anyway? I was actually floored listening to him. Does this have any merit to this case and if so WHAT??
Good morning, Sarah - Not only is gas expensive, it's $15 a day for parking, but that's the way it works.
It was a touching moment when George answered the question and broke down crying. I know a lot of people hate that family, but what did he ever do to deserve this? No one does.
I think one of the biggest barriers for this defense will be the cold-as-steel attitude of their client. It's very clear she hates her family and if that isn't a motive, I don't know what is. As for Baez, yes, I do think he did pretty good. He had a very good day on Wednesday because it got everyone wondering about Casey's Miranda rights. He stumbled early on Thursday, but picked up the pace later on. As for his problem with what the cops may have thought of him, that was somewhat over the top. It seemed like more of a personal thing than it was about his client.
Lee did fine, but I still think he used to flash a secret agent badge when he was growing up. Like Casey, he ran his own private investigation. There's just something different about him that I can't put my finger on. I wasn't alone with that thought, either, although it was refreshing to hear the truth.
The trial will be held in the marquis courtroom on the 23rd floor. That one does have a gallery, and it also offers cushioned chairs instead of wooden benches. Trust me, it should be a crime to hold court for 8 hours in there. Very uncomfortable! I would have gone Friday, but I had forgotten about another obligation.
I saw that panoramic image from Sentinel photographer Red Huber. Yup, there we were. I'll tell you, Wednesday and Thursday were very memorable days. I'm glad I was there.
Thanks, Sarah. Your comment is appreciated.
Hi Dave,
Thank you for another great article and attending the hearings for us. You always put things into perspective that we can understand and your summary of what happens in court is what makes it like we are right there as well.
I felt bad for George, however when he was getting defensive it got to me. It will be a lot worse for him come May and to have lost your grand daughter almost 3 years ago and to keep hearing what happened over and over again must be the hardest thing anyone has to go through. That is why it probably is good for a trial to start sooner than later.
As for Lee, do you remember his depo he gave to John Morgan, here is the link http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/27/ng.01.html where John Morgan talks to Mike Brooks of CNN and they go over the depo. Lee says he believes everything his sister says, now I am wondering if he really does believe her from what he said the other day. He was laughing through out the depo and Mike Brooks said he felt it was weird because it was serious business.
Maybe it was a nervous laugh. Nothing is new he always laughs, he laughed when he was being interviewed by LE, he laughed during the depo and he laughed the other day. The whole family has facial expressions that are sometimes unbelievable.
Dave, a few people that were in the court room had said George's parents were there, did you get a chance to see them? Also, the gray haired man that sat behind the defense was that the PI?
When the defense left the table he jumped up to the table and sat next to Casey, was this allowed?
Thank you Dave for all you do!
Great post, Dave! I think Baez did a good job on Wednesday. I didn't notice his usual um's, ah's, etc. He seems to do much better talking when he is questioning witnesses than talking in front of the judge arguing a motion. I thought he wasn't as good on Thursday, but that could have been because he had to cover for Cheney Mason on that day because he had no voice. I thought his line of questioning regarding if he was liked or not was way over the top and had no place to be asked. I thought that Ms. Sims was prepared with arguing her motion. She cited some case law which is something that Baez and Mason have a hard time doing. I thought Yuri Melich did an excellent job on the stand and had Baez stumbling a few times and maybe even a little upset that he couldn't get him to answer the way he wanted him to. Yuri was very quick with his answers and seemed very calm on the stand. I thought Sgt. Allen did a good job on the stand also. I have a big problem with the way that George acts when he is questioned by the prosecution. He has this arrogant, argumentive attitude that makes him look like an ass. I am sure that if there was someone else on trial for the murder of his grandchild that he would want the prosecution to do their job to the fullest, just like they were when they were questioning him.I don't understand why he just can't answer a simple question and he can't stop his facial expression and muttering under his breath. I understand that this is hard for him, but I would think that he would do whatever he could to get justice for Caylee. I sure hope his attorney talks to him before the trial starts and tells him to try to stay calmer on the stand. He and Cindy will only hurt Casey in the long run. I was glad to see that Lee was honest when he was on the stand. He seems to have a nervous laugh, but I am with you Dave not being able to put my finger on what is off with him. I agree with you that either way they have lost Casey and I don't think that they realize that. If for some reason she does go free, she will not have anything to do with them, so in a sense they have lost her and if she gets the DP or LWOP they have lost her. My one true wish is that when this trial starts that the Anthony's will stop being arrogant and argumentive on the stand, and act like grandparents that want justice for their murdered grandchild, even if it was at the hands of their own daughter. They need to stop and see that Casey wants nothing to do with them. Thanks for attending these hearings and telling us the things that we are not able to see or feel and pick up on TV. It is truly appreciated. I am glad that you were able to meet new people there and to have good conversations with LE and everyone else there.
It only goes to show that 1 day.. 1 hour.. 1 "mistake" can change your life forever. This time it changed an entire family. I'm with you Dave and it's interesting because I thought I might be the only one to think that if she did miraculously get found innocent and free to go, that that family will never be the same. The only difference in our way of thinking is that I think Casey will forever try to get free of her family but they won't let her.. but after this she would be more in control due to her "see what you put me through" attitude, and their guilt for doing it. I keep wondering if Cindy hadn't lost her temper that day and Casey had told her Caylee died in an accident would it change anything in how they reacted. I don't think so due to the nature of the crime. She's already lost to them. I think George's actions on the stand are due to his chronic depression. Added to that due to his testimony and his past law enforcement experience, he can see exactly how it stands for Casey. Cindy, though, just wants things to go her way and will fight tooth and nail until it does. Lee's laugh, I think, is a nervous tic he developed over the years dealing with his mother. If he laughs she knows he wasn't serious about his answer.. same as Casey's lying. They both dealt with their mother by developing an habitual trait.
Baez surprised me the first day of court by actually being almost good at cross examining witnesses. When Cheney Mason took over, though, you could see a whopping big difference. Mason will cite law when needed almost like he lived through that case so he knows it by heart, and his treating the defense witnesses was gentle compared to Baez's awkward handling of them.I found myself actually liking Mason for a change. Baez needs to get off the topic of "me, her lawyer, me".. he sounded like his client there for a while. I found myself also wondering why that guy popped into that seat by Casey every time someone left it... like the legal aide does. Is there some kind of courtroom rule that says the defendant can't be left alone at the defense table? The only one who seemed to be actually enjoying the hearing was Casey, and why not, it's her favorite drama... "The Casey Show".
Yet another good write up Dave. Thanks for being there and I hope you don't spend all that money for parking and trying to get into the courtroom during the trial. I imagine the ticket idea will keep you out some days, and I have an idea the crowds will be worse than black friday crowds at a mall.
Dave: Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
I have to admit that I found Mr. Baez very skilled in his questioning of George. He first invoked memories of Caylee—sweet, beautiful Caylee, who is now gone forever. George would have done anything in the world to save Caylee, protect Caylee.
Here, Mr. Anthony’s paper thin grip on reality starts to crumble.
Then, without giving George a chance for recovery, Mr. Baez switched his questioning to Casey. Would George do anything in the world to protect Casey? His baby girl—his daughter, Casey?
At the end of it, I wasn’t sure who, exactly, George was crying for. Casey or Caylee? Still, as an attorney, Mr. Baez shone here, he was doing his job. Maybe at George’s expense, but Mr. Baez doesn’t care about such things. Casey, Princess Casey, is his client.
What normal person’s heart would not have broken for George in those moments?
I noticed Mr. Mason’s hand firmly placed on Casey’s shoulder to steady her during this questioning. He need not have bothered—her father’s agony brought forth no emotion from Miss Casey.
Ms. Linda Drane Burdick’s objections made sense to me. Was this really necessary, at this stage in the proceedings? Mr. Anthony was on the stand to prove that he had been coerced by the evil law enforcement to act as an ‘Agent of the State’, against Miss Anthony. Instead, Mr. Baez draws forth such great emotions from Mr. Anthony that all hope for composure during cross is lost.
A smarmy trick? A classy trick? A par for the course trick? (I read your footnote. It does concern me to see the Judge helping him out.)
Whatever it was, I know I have to prepare myself to watch the upcoming trial. Never before, have I ever so firmly chosen my side, before the start.
George: I'd do anything for Casey, Caylee
Above is a link to a short video of the particular event.
hello
Great post Dave. You know reading the newspaper reports and while watching the hearings, I find my emotions go every which way. Reading your posts keeps me focused on the facts. Reading the comments also helps as many express the multitude of feelings I have about the case and persons involved. At the end of the day I feel so sorry for the Anthonys but otherwise they absolutely irritate me to no end.
Question: Judge Perry has basically said knock off the snears and childish reactions including facial expressions. Let us say he needed to reprimand George as George is doing the ugly faces and comments under his breath while he is sitting in the court room,. Would he speak directly to George at the time it is happening or talk to George's attorney? And, what is it Judge Perry will do if it continues?
Hey Snoop !!
Dave.
I can hardly wait for your summation and opinion of each hearing. You always make it so much more clear to realize what has happened in the courtroom. I love this site and all of the comments from the bloggers as well and I thank you so much for making yourself available for us. You do a fantastic job of breaking everything down for us to understland.
Nice post Dave, hey Snoop, I understand George being angry at the world for his life now but to be angry in the courtroom and at attrys is childish.George and Cindy appear to be immature in their thoughts and actions. I have never hated the Anthonys and at times had some empathy for them. Caylees death was almost 2 yrs ago and that is time enough to at least stop being irrational. I am not saying at 2 yrs and be over Caylees death but it is time enough for a person to find their emotional center again. I think what we are seeing from the Anthonys now is the Real Anthonys. How they are behaving is how they would be behaving if Caylee was not murdered. George might not be crying but he would be angry at someone except who he should be angry at.
I have always wished Lee well and I certainly hope he escapes from Florida.
Hi Janet -
I think the resentment began when the search switched mostly from looking for a missing child to a (more likely) deceased victim. The family resented law enforcement after that, but forensics pointed that way and what they didn't know was that LE continued looking for a living child. The same thing happened with Tim Miller. There's nothing but hostile resentment today. Also, no matter what, Casey is still their daughter. Whether they think she's guilty or not, the fact remains that the State is trying to execute their daughter. I don't know how any parent would want that, but it sure is easier to think they should when we are on the outside looking in. I wonder if any attitudes would change if the DP were to be dropped?
I can't, for the life of me, quite figure Lee out. Neither will a lot of other people. Certainly, he's not a bad guy, but I can't find a niche for him.
George's parents were not there. At no time inside the courtroom or out did I see any interaction with an older couple. Some people asked me if they were there and I said no. Of course, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
The man sitting with the defense was Jerry Lyons, the private eye. He works for the defense so that makes him part of the team. Yes, he could sit there because of his affiliation. Whoever the defense wants, the court obliges.
Hey, thanks! I try to put things in a proper perspective. It goes with the turf, and I'm glad I could do it.
I think Perry already knows how he's going to rule, and if he can, he'll throw the defense a bone, but it won't help their case. For instance, if he decides that the meeting set up by LE for George was "iffy"...so what...no info came from it. If he decides that the Universal interview was also "iffy" and tosses her statements...so what..she had already voluntarily written a 3 page statement with all that info in it. I believe that's why he overruled some of the objections by the state...throwing the defense a bone when he could....we will see :)
Wow, Mary Jo, you said a mouthful and I couldn't have said it better. That's a good observation. Jose does seem to do better when addressing witnesses. That opened my mind up to what I would expect during the trial. Yes, Cheney did a fine job, too, and his experience was quite evident.
I will be writing about Sims later, but I will admit I respect her a lot.
The judge did explain the rules of conduct to George while he was on the stand. He did settle down after that. As for how he reacts while in the gallery, that's a tough one. While understanding the man's plight, he must still maintain an orderly and respectful courtroom. I can't say I know how to deal with the problem, but I have my ideas. Yes, it may hurt Casey, but the jury will be instructed to pay attention to the witnesses and evidence, not what transpires in the gallery. As for Lee, I don't know what to make of him. He's like an anomoly.
Thank you, Mary Jo. I sure am pleased I can go to the hearings and report on them. It gives me great pleasure to know that you and others get something out of my posts, even those who disagree with me. I try to be as neutral as I can, but in many cases, it's tough. I want logic to prevail. Yes, it was great to meet new people and it was an honor to speak to some of OCSO's finest investigators. It was a wonderful experience.
Dave, this is really a great summary of the events in the courtroom. Baez was in very good form when he questioned the witnesses on the stand. Yuri Melich, being a seasoned detective, did not permit Baez to put the words in his mouth. It was a pleasure to hear Yuri, brief and to the point answers, no embellishing or allowing
Baez to repeat the same questions in hopes of getting the anwers he wanted to hear. Baez does do better in questioning a witness than in front of the podium arguing motions. I can understand why Baez focused so much on himself as he wanted to stress that since Casey was represented by his counsel, LE did not have the right to coerce her to talk even via George, Cindy and Lee.
I could not see any evidence that George, Cindy and Lee were, in any way, agents of the state. Had they been asked back then when they desperately wanted any info of Caylee, they would have answered an emphatic, 'no.' Today it is different as they form their anwers to aid the defense and their daughter. I will give Lee credit for his honesty on the stand in lieu of stating things in a bad light against LE. I predict that Judge Perry will deny the defense motion and permit the jail videos into evidence.
George and Cindy need some coaching before they testify at the trial. They have got to stick to their original interviews and stop trying to change their stories. Linda Drane Burdick will not permit them to ramble on outside of the direct questions posed to them and insist on, "just answer the question." George has got to curb his temper besides supress his emotional outbursts. The jury will be watching Casey's reactions to witnesses and read a lot into her expressions.
I am wondering how the jury will feel when the Cindy and George are seated on the defense side of the courtroom rather than on the state's. I don't think it will take the jury members too long to form their opinions that Casey is guilty and wonder why Caylee's grandparents are putting their support behind the one who took her life. This will not bode well if they have a small empty chair or a picture of Caylee on the state's side handy to Ashton, Burdick and George.
At trial time, the jury will see the autopsy photos and that will include the tiny skull wrapped in duct tape, before and after the tape was cut away from the hair. They will also see a replica of a tiny skull wrapped in duct tape, one that will represent an alive Caylee. I doubt if George or Cindy will be allowed in the courtroom for this but Casey will have to remain. Will there be any reaction from Casey when this evidence is shown to the jurors?
I am glad Kathi Belich was freed from the witness list and is able to cover this case. Baez' apology to the court sounded sincere, Ashton accepted his apology and Judge Perry was wise having the state and defense work this out on their own.
As to the Miranda Rights, that one is a puzzler. I can't even call that one but try to remain optomistic.
Dave, old man, you did dang good with the way you explained all the events of the hearing. I noticed that you are quite adept at gathering info at the recesses and lunch breaks. Thank you kindly!
Hi Snoopy! Your assessment of what went on in the courtroom works just fine for me. I was quite impressed with how Yuri handled the situation, too. He's quite smooth. As for George and Cindy, yes, Casey is going to have to learn how to shed alligator tears because the jury is going to watch her like a hawk. As for G & C sitting on the defense side, I think they will pay it no mind. After all, the State is seeking death. I could understand any parent not wishing for that, no matter what. Life, okay, but death is still tough to swallow. If they sat on the prosecution side, it might help explain why Casey turned out to be so cold-hearted, so it could have the opposite effect than what one might think.
As for Kathi Belich, I was pulling for her all the way, and every attorney I spoke to said there was no way the defense would win that one.
I'm looking forward to what transpires in the courtroom tomorrow. If it's just closing arguments, I don't think Judge Perry has made up his mind yet because he wouldn't be wasting time on it.
Thank you, my friend. I do try my best to cover events, and it never hurts to ask questions inside and outside of the courtroom.
Jose did seem to focus on Jose. So what if they don't like you move on! That line of questioning imo had no place in the courtroom.
Lee did do a good thing, it is about time. As far as George I think we are making excuses for him. He likes it like that. 1st. He wants us to believe Casey did not do this. 2nd He now believes Caylee is alive?!?! Maybe he should act like he is in a court of law instead of at a fight club. IMO there is no excuse for his behavior in a court of law. If they are worried about the d.p. maybe they should have taught their daughter that lying is bad and and then maybe she would have not lied through her teeth to le. As long as people accept this because of his situation then he will continue to be the way he is. Man up, it is what it is and you helped make it the way it is.
I cannot make excuses for them nor will I. At the end of the day this trial is about Caylee not what the A's have been through. They allowed this to spin out of control with all their excuses. Cindy with the if Casey did she had help. I cannot think of one friend or ex-boyfriend of mine that would help me kill one of my children. How many friends do you all have that would help you? Makes me angry. BBL race time and I need a minute.
Hi Connie -
To say Casey has an ego is an understatement, and 2+ years in jail have done nothing to soften it. The fact remains, too, that she was bitter toward her family before this happened, and it's only gotten worse. How can she not comprehend that she is destroying her family from within? It's almost as if she enjoys it. To her, it's always been about ME ME ME! What the family doesn't know is that they lost her long before Caylee was gone. There will never be an embrace.
I was impressed with the defense. Jose started out weak on Thursday, but he finished much stronger, especially with the powerful hypothetical question. Cheney is definitely seasoned, and I hope his voice is not going to silence him during the trial. That's going to be two grueling months for him. I want a fair game. As for Jose, I don't think his questioning what police thought of him did any good in helping his cause in the motion.
Not that it would ever happen, but if Jose asked me to sit next to Casey while the attorneys were having a sidebar with the judge, there would be no protocol that would stop me. It's at the discretion of each side. One thing I must acknowledge is that lone female attorney of his. I forget her name right now. I must tell you that she is one HARD worker. I've got to hand it to her. I'd take her on my team any day of the week. If someone remembers her name, please tell me.
Thanks for complimenting my write up. I appreciate that, and I'll try my best to cover the trial.
Hi nan11 -
I'm just thankful I can experience it, let alone report on the events.
I agree, Jose did a good job. He is a criminal defense attorney, after all, and he's experienced at questioning and cross-examining witnesses, cops in particular. I also think he was aware that any questioning of George would bring on a lot of emotion, and he handled it like any good attorney would have. At the end of it, George was crying for both girls. It's got to be next to impossible to lose his only grandchild AND daughter.
I think Cheney's hand on Casey's shoulder was a parlor trick intended to humanize her. "Don't worry, I'm here for you." Only, she never needed the support because no emotion was forthcoming. None. That's going to be a real problem come trial time - her total lack of concern for anything outside of herself.
As for the hypothetical, the fact remains that the judge alloweed it. I think he is aware that this will be an integral part of the trial. To what extent, I don't know yet. Twice, he overruled LDB. There's something to this and we shall find out soon enough what it is.
Thank you for your comment, and for providing the link.
Thank you, Newbie! I completely understand how emotions run from one extreme to another and everywhere in between. I'm glad that my posts and ensuing comments help frame things in a better light. I'm ixed about the Anthony's, too, and it's a normal reaction to the complexities involved in this case.
As for George and his outbursts, that's a tough one. The judge certainly can't call his attorney up for a sidebar since he's not involved in the proceedings, so what can he do? I think another stern warning to the gallery while looking at him might do the trick. With that warning would come one last reminder that anyone who does not heed him will be removed from the courtroom for the rest of the day. I'm sure the judge understands the unique relationship, but when is enough enough?
Newbie, it always gives me great pleasure when you're around.
The female attorney's name is Medina.
Wow, Derrye, what a nice thing to say! Thank you very much. I'm glad you love my blog, and I'm telling you right now, it wouldn't work without all of the great comments from everyone. It's as much a part of the blog as what I write. You really make my job more pleasant and worthwhile.
Thank you, cali patti. One minor correction, Caylee's death was over 2 years ago. It will be 3 years in June. Hard to believe, I know, but it's true.
Hi Phyllis - I wondered about that, too, but why would the judge want to hear closing arguments if he's already made his decisions?
Dave: Why? Please tell me why. Why would a decent man like yourself want to sit next to Casey? What do you see there that you would allow no protocol to prevent you from doing so?
Laurali: Your comment is a gem. Right on. You hit every point perfect. Imho.
Snoop: Your first comment was a pleasure. The atty's first name is Michelle. {wink}
Below is a great link, everyone. I came across it while googling, so I don't know who to give thanks to; but it appears to contain videos for the whole 3 day hearing. All downloaded from the internet directly, no 'In Session' discussion. Really great for refreshing our memories. First up is Gabriel Adam on the stand, but you can find any part at this link.
CMA Hearing
Great post as usual. Do you think that Lee will really tell what he knows instead of protecting his sister. it looks like he is turning around and being more truthful. He still has to deal with his parents and maybe he is afraid of telling the truth. I think he know what happended to Caylee and is conflicted. What do you think?
Dave is having a problem commenting in here and will not be able to until some technical issues are resolved. Thanks for you patience.
FYI~~ Has anyone been having problems commenting at this site. If so, could you describe what they have been. TIA
Thanks, Snoopy. The problem was gone this morning, but it's back.
I think the female attorney's name is Gabriel Medina.
Hi Dave, so much to discuss and so little time..So I will try and keep it short.
I know this is costing you to travel, park, eat out and spend the whole day there. I did hit you tip jar a little via pay pal..Hope a few more pitch in and help also..You put so much into this and then also give us the chance to express our opinions..That is priceless to me.
I so much enjoyed watching this week..The one big thing for me was when George told LDB he "would" challenge her, and then told Jose he would do "anything" to help his baby Casey. I would have expected LDB to ask if that included lying under oath. I'm afraid he is a slow learner and will be one of the first to be removed from court..Father or not there are still rules to be obeyed..JP has been very kind to him so far but I can tell it is getting old. All i would have to do is look at Casey's stone cold face and I would know my love for her means nothing. She is enjoying every minute of this while her whole family is going through hell..That would toughen me up and i feel myself to be a very loving Mother...But I would have to start looking at facts instead of feelings. WHO do they really think killed that precious child????
Thanks for the post Dave,,,,,,Sounds to me like Casey has claimed she was threatened at gunpoint by the police at some point..She likes that story didnt she tell her parents she was robbed of thousands of dollars at sports athourity or AT one of her fictional jobs.As to the Anthonys as agents of the state .How many times have the Anthonys claimed that they never talked about Caylees whereabouts to Casey whilst she was out on bond.As they feared the house was bugged by L E.....
Hi ecossie possie - I'm late, but I'm here. No telling what stories Casey concocted, but as far as I'm concerned, the Anthonys were not agents of any kind for the state. All they wanted at the time was to find Caylee.
Very nicely written, Dave. Yes, there was a lot that didn't come across with TV or feed that you were more privy to, but one thing we watching with the other TV viewers got, but Good, was the total and all-encompassing hatred Casey feels for her Dad now- that slow burn she seems to be doing whenever he's the focus. Not with Cindy that I pick up on, and not really yet with Lee (just over that one issue) but WOW- how she hates her dad. If she didn't want him dead before, she sure does now. Dead and in the ground. If this goes into Mitigation, it'll really be something. Here we are in Hearings stage and look at the drama already...
Thank you, Karen. Yes, Casey seems to have nothing but contempt for her father and brother, but especially her father. It won't go unnoticed by the jury, either.
Dave....formality is my first thought., and to keep the defense from crying foul because he's being partial to the state....perhaps staying true to his word by doing some of his own research...things of that nature.
The only thing is, the judge has never called for closing arguments for any other motions. That's what puzzles me. I will ask some of the attorneys what the think while I am there.
Dave: You raise an interesting point about the OCSO detectives (and one FBI agent) picking up Mr. Anthony on the fateful day of August 14, 2008. It interests me as to why LE would pick George up; and at a pre-arranged meeting place? Huh? What was going on here—was George out on another secret rendezvous, without the knowledge of Cindy and Lee? Was Cindy and/or Lee having George followed? There had been an unusual meeting in Mr. Baez’s office on, I believe, August 12, 2008. No decision on a ‘meeting with Casey’ was reached. Was Jose Baez, (through one of his PI’s, of course), watching the movements of the family?
This just strikes me as strange and all I can find in the videos from the trial is where George says that he got a call from Sgt. Allen and Yuri Melich, about where to meet and at what time. I was wondering ‘who’ set this meeting up and why George wouldn’t have just driven himself there. I guess it’s not important, though.
As far as LE surreptitiously taping the car ride—of course, they would tape it. We would all be fooling ourselves to think otherwise. Mr. Anthony, of all people, should understand this. He just hates having the tables turned on him—in his heart, he considers himself part of law enforcement. Thus, he feels his co-operation should have excluded him from this humiliation. His anger on this issue alone is palpable. He seethes over this. I sense more emotion over this, than over the loss of his beloved granddaughter.
Contrary to what Mr. Baez is trying to prove, the police do work for us; however, when we break the law, they are no longer our friends. That’s the nature of the beast, I guess.
I find your site working good for me today. The only little strange thing was that it would not hold my login info, even for an hour. But, I see that is working now.
There was that meeting Jose spoke of. It was at his office on Aug 12, 2008. LDB and Cmdr Matt Irwin were in attendance. It was to arrange a meeting with George and Casey. Jose stated that a video (or was it audio?) was missing.
As for taping the ride to the jail, yes, of course that's what cops do and George should have known. My only issue lays with what the investigators said, that they were not investigating. Huh? Of course they were. That's a given. I guess it will come down to semantics, though.
I have no idea what's causing problems with the blog, but it is going upstairs to the developers to sort out. Snoopy started having problems days ago. Others have, as well. Now me. Some tweaking is in order, I think.
I so wish LDB would have asked George on re-cross (after he said he would do anything legal or illegal to save Casey's life) "would you lie under oath on the witness stand?" maybe she'll save that for the trial . (The judge allowed the question and the answer, so I think it's fair game during the trial.)
Fortunately, Phyllis, the State has transcripts out the yazoo to refer to in order to keep things truthful. All she'll have to do is remind them.
Great article Dave! Lee obviously suffers from a nervous affliction and most likely can not control his laughter. It may very well be embarrassing to him too.
If the jurors get to hear the taped interviews at Universal it will seal Casey's fate. She admits she lies, she refers to Caylee as being 'with someone' but rarely uses Zenaida's name instead of the word someone. Her 4 am conversation at her parent's home with Yuri Melich really gives insight to the workings of Casey's mind. She obviously has developed her lying skills for years along with being very smart. (At 4 am you'd think she wouldn't be on her lying toes). She covered herself very well when giving time frames for Zenaida's many addresses and for when Z started babysitting and when Lauren Gibbs quit babysitting Caylee so that Z could take over. She would pause before answering (as if she was mentallly calculating an answer that wouldn't conflict with a previous answer). She was quick to come up with another lie if Yuri questioned something that didn't quite make sense. I felt like I was witnessing a sociopath in action. If Yuri had been more on his toes at 4 a.m. I see spots he could have tripped her up on but didn't. My big question is this: Lee said the car/garage stunk horribly. Did any of LE smell the car that night? Did Casey comment to Lee or her parents as to why the car smelled?
I also love Casey's cell phone(s) story. When I worked thru all of her convoluted b.s. she's saying that she had a very recently inssued Universal cell phone that didn't work well, was stolen or taken off her desk at work and the internal storage of this Universal phone was the only place that she had contact numbers for her cast of characters. These numbers were not on her SIM card which she did swap back and forth between her personal phone and her Universal phone. So your babysitter you knew for 2 years was stored only on a phone you'd had for 3 weeks which never actually existed in the first place? Yes honey you are going down.
Thank you, Patti O. When Melich was asked about the smell, he said he wasn't aware of it. I find that to be rather unbelievable since cops have noses (no pun intended) for digging up any and all evidence and how it would relate to that precise moment. Everyone must have been aware of that smell, especially seasoned detectives. Whether it will amount to anything in the judge's decision is anyone's guess.
Nan11, this site is working better for me today too, unfortunately, now it is not working for Dave. We have a strange gremlin in here and hopefully it will sort itself out.
Dave sorry to hear you are locked out! I'm not or at least I do not think I am.
Nan ~ Thank you. It feels good that someone agrees with me. Do not get me wrong, I do feel sorry for them because they lost their grand-daughter to a violent crime. IMO it is a violent crime. But that is where it ends. They allowed lying and stealing what did they really think would happen? They knew their daughter did not support her daughter. They knew their daughter did not have a job. IMO again, (geez I may be opinionated :)) they knew that she was spinning out of control. Turning a blind does not mean it is not going on. Instead of worrying about what their family might think they should have worried about Caylee. A precious little girl lost because nobody stood up or put a foot down for her. At this point I would not have cared if they stuck that foot in their daughters behind!
Mary Jo~~Nan11 was correct. The female lawyer, and Baez's assistant is Michelle Medina. The male lawyer who used to work with Baez and who testified on the stand is Gabriel Adams. There are so many players in this case, it is easy to get confused.
Is it just me, or does Baez seem to be pushing hard for a mistrial?
Dave is still having problems where he is not able to respond to any comments. He is hoping to have this fixed soon. Squarespace has assigned this problem to the developers. He just wanted to let everyone know the problem is still being worked on.
I hope that Judge Perry takes into consideration that on August 14th, Casey was charged with child neglect and obstructing LE in their investigation for a missing child by lying. She was not charged with murder one at that time!! If the defense mentioned that this is a DP case or a murder trial in their motion to supress the jail video tapes, they were sadly mistaken.
This is where I cannot understand the way the laws are written. The laws should be able to be bent when it comes to a missing child. Caylee was missing on August 14th, fact. Her mother, the last known person to see Caylee sat in jail, uncooperative and like a mute, fact. Jose Baez’ priority is to the mute and not the child. How did anyone know at that time that Caylee was not with some drug dealer or psycho and was being abused? My God, why wouldn’t LE do all in their power to try and find the child, even if it meant trying to get Cindy, George and Lee to try and solicit info from the mute. Jose Baez cut off all communication between Casey and her family. Did George and Cindy like Jose then?
I think those detectives were so sincere in their initial efforts to find Caylee that they would have risked whatever to get information and I say more power to them !!!!
Now, I wasn't going to bring this up but.....everytime George talks about doing whatever he could to find Caylee, it just reminds me of him being at his girlfriend's apartment when he was to be looking for a job and also helping volunteers. grrrrrrrrr
Newbie~~River Cruz did end up admitting that her and George were intimate. George ran around town towing that billboard that he rented from the Milsteads of Kidfinders. Most of Geo's time was selling t-shirts and calling news outlets when he wasn't snuggling with Cruz. She must have been desperate because she paid him for his services to the tune of around five grand.
I just watched Uri Melich's testimony again. It's so odd.. maybe karma that the first person who takes his first missing child case is a former homicide detective. When asked if he had had any other missing child cases since this one he said "no". The only case he had was still homicide.
No problems with the site recently.
When Judge Perry was questioning the lawyer on his own I so very much wanted him to ask "when did you leave Baez law firm?" I think it's awfully convenient that he's out of the firm at the exact time they need him to be so he can be questioned.
I watched today to see why Judge Perry gave the "no making faces" admonishment to see who exactly was making them and it seems like the entire courtroom was chuckling at some of Uri Melich's comments.
If I were in George and Cindy's place I would also be standing behind my daughter but only to a point. You can love your child but still hate their actions.
Hello, Laurali - I finally got my ability to comment back.Anyway, George will never man up.
Thank you for the info on Jose's helper, Michelle Medina. She's very efficient.
No, nan11, I wouldn't want to sit next to her, but I will tell you she turned her head and looked right at me on Thursday. Not in a bad way, not in a good way, but it was the first, time as far as I know, that she ever looked. Whether it was intentional or not, I don't know.