Without Prejudice
Tuesday, March 15, 2011 at 6:32PM Casey Anthony’s defense team has filed a lot of motions; too many to some, but plenty of them have been denied without prejudice by the presiding judge. With prejudice and without are fairly cut and dry. With prejudice means that once a judge rules, that’s the end of it; dead in the water, leave it alone and give it a rest. In other words, it’s a final disposition. Without prejudice means that the present form is not good enough to rule positively on, but the motion can certainly be filed again after tweaking and rewriting it. In other words, similar, but not identical. It leaves a party free to litigate the matter in a subsequent action. That’s not to say the latter outcome would be any different, but it leaves the door open for further explanation and review. A lot of the motions ruled against the defense by Judge Stan Strickland were ordered without prejudice. In my opinion, one of the reasons why Jose & Co. wanted him off the bench was made clear after Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Jr. took over. Many of those motions turned down by Judge Strickland were refiled. They expected the new judge to be more favorable in his rulings. Unfortunately for Casey, Judge Perry didn’t overturn a single one of them, so they did nothing to help her cause.
In light of Judge Strickland’s rulings, I want to discuss something that’s been weighing on my mind - without prejudice, of course. Actually, there are two things, the other one being George and Cindy and where they sit in the courtroom; but first, I come to Judge Strickland’s defense - not that he needs it or anything.
Of late, I have been reading comments on blogs, including my own; personal testimonials that praise Judge Perry for keeping this trial on track; that he is expediting the schedule. Consequently, and because of him, the trial will start on time - his time. That’s simply not true. Not to take away from him or his regimented structuring at all, but the facts in this case are, in fact, facts, and facts don’t lie. Just where has Judge Perry sped up the process as it relates to deadlines and the like?
On March 5, 2010, just over a year ago, Judge Strickland affixed his name to an amended order setting deadlines. It’s titled [the] AMENDED PROPOSED ORDER SETTING DISCOVERY, MOTION and HEARING DEADLINES and TRIAL DATE. On February 7 of this year, Judge Perry wrote his ORDER MEMORIALIZING STATUS HEARING. Please make a mental note that these are orders written by both judges.
Judge Strickland wrote: Depositions of law enforcement officers or employees shall be completed by September 30, 2010.
Judge Perry wrote: Depositions of Law Enforcement Persons: Defense anticipates completion of all depositions by the February 18,2011 deadline.
That’s a four-and-one-half month discrepancy, folks, and Judge Strickland stepped down six weeks after his deadline order. Who reset the deadline? Please understand that this, in no manner, disparages Judge Perry. This is a complex death penalty case and tentative deadlines are meant to be broken. Recently, a very prominent attorney told me, “So much misinformation is out there,” and this stretches beyond the mundane aspects of this case.
Another good example of this is Judge Strickland’s original deadline for the depositions of defense expert witnesses. The date he set was February 28, 2011. Judge Perry extended it a bit to March 11, 2011 for the final one - Dr. Werner Spitz.
On a side note, we now know Dr. Spitz will argue that Dr. G’s autopsy results are flawed. We will look more into this aspect at a later date, but meanwhile…
Judge Perry said, by hook or by crook, this trial will commence to start on May 9, 2011. It’s etched in stone, but lest you think that he is speeding up what the defense tries to set back, guess again. While Judge Perry keeps both sides on course, it was Judge Strickland who set the trial date of May 9, 2011. I show you Exhibit A, right on schedule:
I remember when I told readers of my blog that I was going to attend my first hearing. It was back in mid-October, 2009. Everyone told me to sit on the prosecution side. If you sit on the defense side, it means you support the defense. I said, no it doesn’t, this isn’t like a wedding, where friends of the bride and groom sit on their respective sides. Oh yes it does, I was lectured. Well, I’ve always been the independent sort, and I told them I will sit wherever I want. It so happens that upon entering the courtroom, the only seat available was next to George and Cindy on the, you guessed it, defense side. That awarded me the opportunity to say a few words to George when the hearing was over, and I’m glad I did. As a writer, I try to remain neutral, although it’s downright impossible at times.
Nowadays, almost all I ever read, over and over and over again, is that because George, Cindy and Lee sit behind their daughter, it means they have “thrown their granddaughter under the bus.” They are not interested in justice for Caylee. At all. That brings me to one very important thought. It’s actually two separate pieces of the whole, but I think it’s worth pondering. No, I am not setting this in stone; let’s just say it’s a fresh perspective that most people haven’t given much thought to, if any at all. Please keep in mind that keeping an open mind usually means everything is not always hidden behind Door Number One. Answers can come from anywhere, and they usually do.
Suppose the Anthonys are seeking justice for their grandchild, but they just don’t like the fact that the state of Florida wants to kill Casey. Hey, life is okay, but death? No matter what your child has done, and I want you to think hard and heavy about this, would you beg the state to kill your child? No matter what? If you honestly answer no, then you will you understand why they refuse to support the prosecution. THEY WANT TO KILL MY DAUGHTER!!! To be realistic, I doubt that you could execute your own child. I couldn’t, because…
Personally, I am against the death penalty. My beliefs are my own and so are my reasons, but if you ask me why I feel the way I do, I will gladly explain my position. With that in mind, has anyone EVER asked George and Cindy what their positions are on the death penalty? If not, what if they feel the same way I do? Why would they want to support the state by sitting behind them? I wouldn’t if it were my child, but she’s not, and it’s not my call.
Think about how you would feel as poison flows into your child’s veins. Without prejudice, of course.
Dave Knechel | in Capital Punishment, Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, Cheney Mason, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Cindy Anthony, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Dr. Werner Spitz, George Anthony, Human Interest, Jose Baez, Judge Stan Strickland, Lee Anthony, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, Religion/Philosophy, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (58)
HI Dave, yes i have thought about it and my honest answer is of course i would not.. i would like to think if it were my daughter and granddaughter involved in this case , then yes if my daughter killed her own daughter then she needs to be punished with life imprisonment... and i really can understand that they want to think of her as innocent , but with all the time that has passed and all the evidence, circumstantial or not i feel when they close their eyes at nite they know the truth.. as hard as it would be to believe that your own child cud do this they just must think it true in their hearts, and myself if it were my child i would not want her put to death , it is just human nature to want to protect our children, unfortunately casey did not seem to have this in her, i just recently watched an Oprah show (prob old ) but it was about women in prison,,,( she had an affair with a 15 yr old boy and he and his friends murdered her husband.... sorry cant remember her name) and after serving 20yrs this woman who was sentenced to life without parole for her involvement (still denies it ), said she would rather have had the injection.. as she was 20 yrs old when she started her sentence and is now 40 .. the injection wud have been the "easy way out".. so i personally think that this sentence is exactly wat casey should get , she should not get the easy way out .. and this womans mother was also on Oprah saying she still believes her daughter to b innocent .. 20 yrs later.. i think this will be the case with the Anthonys too... no matter wat they know r feel when they close their eyes at nite...sorry for rambling .. thanks for the post it is thought provoking .. keep up the good work :) cinta
Hi cinta - I've often wondered if Cindy is the sort to stick her head in the sand at the face of truth. You know how some people cover their ears and sing "La La La La La" so they can't hear you? That way, if they can't hear you, you never said it. Or so they believe. I also think it's darn near impossible to want to think something like this could happen, but it did. They are going to have to face the truth one day soon, and it's going to rip them apart.
Thank you. You know how I like writing thought provoking posts.
Hey Dave, I really enjoyed your commentary on the radio broadcast but was sorry you had so many broadcast problems. Your succint insights really help keep the conversation grounded in reality. One of the other fellows summed up my pov on one issue well - Casey is the combination of the hostility/aggression of Cindy and George's spinelessness.
George isn't a man in any but the anatomical sense of the word. Love how the detectives knew exactly how to play to his inflated ego and he became putty in their hands. Police officer to Police officer, as if. George was happy to sing like bird about any or all of Casey's failings so long as he felt like 'one of the boys'. He didn't restrict it to information that would help find his granddaughter. Not that he had any.
Sickening display of betrayal and starkly disloyal to his entire family. And not the first time as we all well know.
I completely agree with your well-written post but find it incomprehensible that anyone sees it any other way. I guess I should limit that to any parent, grandparent or a person with any empathy for other people.
Nevertheless, I was banned and called a troll for posting something very similar on The Caylee Daily. Since I wasn't baying for not only Casey's blood, but her parent's as well, I was a crazy troll out to cause trouble. Yet these folks can't see what all this bloodlust says about them. Apparently they are all expecting hand written notes of apology from the Anthony's for daring to support their child.
But I digress, out of charity to me would you also explore the topic of charging the grandparents with perjury or obstruction of justice. It is not going to happen in my opinion but would love to hear yours since there's nothing like someone who's observing and absorbing the vibe and attitudes.
My view - too much like piling on. They've lost their granddaughter and may well bury Casey. Sufficient punishment has been meted out whatever you think of the Anthonys. And in my case it's not much. I know it won't quiet the more rabid vigilantes posting but it may help...
As a practical matter, turning the Anthony grandparent's into martyr's is something the State is really trying to avoid, particularly before the jury is seated. Maybe that will soothe them.
Hi EH - I think, at that early stage, George would have talked to anyone, especially law enforcement, if it meant getting his granddaughter back. Back then, I don't think the cops let on about how much they thought Casey killed her daughter. They were on to her the first night.
I know exactly what you mean by some of the blogs and their cult-like followers. It's as if the world stopped for them and you're not a part of it, so keep moving. Early on, they were everywhere. Some of them have settled down, but there's still plenty around. Too bad. Well, you are safe here. We don't "own" Caylee. We discuss things sensibly. In my opinion, the Anthonys won't be charged with anything. The transcripts will be constant reminders, so they won't be able to get away with much. Besides, it takes a lot for State Attorneys to press charges. It's not as simple as it seems. Some cases just aren't worth as much as they would cost.
Hey... thanks!
Hi Dave...Great article. I think some people would have more sympathy for the Anthony's if they just ONCE acted as though little Caylee mattered to them. I would sit on the side of the defense if it were my daughter but I would NOT just dismiss my granddaughter as they have. I still have the thought that Lee may step up and defend poor Caylee. He owes nothing to that whacked out family. Do the right thing Lee. Save yourself. It's too late for your family.
Enjoyed you on Simon's show Sunday.
Barb
Hi Barb! I understand what you mean, and they have done a lot of things that irritate people. I do believe they loved Caylee with all their heart, but darn, they've done some dumb things.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the show! I should be back.
Thankyou for the With prejudice" explanation. I finally get it and I must say, you made it easy for me to understand. Both judges have been exceptional and thankyou Judge Strickland for all that you have done and you continue to do.
As for sitting on a certain side to let it be known who you are in support of? It really never made sense to me at a wedding either. Think about that. You would represent both sides, wouldn't you? They are about to become family. That would make you a representative of both sides.
Finally, I still have to step back and take a breath before I even attempt to feel what the Anthony family are feeling. It is their DAUGHTER! You don't always "like" what your children do but somehow, from the moment they enter this world.You sure do love them with all of your being. Just typing this, I feel tears welling up. The helplessness they must feel. I try to block the thoughts from my head and I do not know these people! Yet, they are people, They are human. So worrying about what side they are sitting on?? I don't know Dave. I almost wish the trial was here and gone. It just doesn't seem to me there will be an end to what happened here. There will be no winners.
Thankyou for this post. What happened is heinous. It's hard to think about. I kind of want to think with my heart for now. Maybe we all should.♥♥
Hi SageMom - I always like to explain something when I can. There's no point in making readers look everything up when I enjoy doing it, and it just makes things easier.
I've never really quite understood the wedding thing, either, but I guess it's for familiarity. You know your side better than the other. You sit at the same tables as your side, but once the drinking gets under way, well, let's just say that by the end of the night, you probably know more about the others. In any event, yes, it's a union, for crying out loud. That means you join as one, so sides shouldn't be necessary.
I would never attempt to answer for the Anthonys. As odd as they may act, who would know what to do when placed in the same situation? I wouldn't want to know.
You are welcome for this post. Thank you for enjoying it.
Great post, Dave! If anyone is going to ask Cindy and George how they feel about the death penalty they should have asked them before this was done to their grand daughter by their daughter for them to give an honest answer. I think if this was someone other than Casey that did this to Caylee, that they would probably be for the death penalty, but we will never know that because it wasn't asked before hand. I can understand to a degree why they would sit behind her in court, but I would still like them at least one time to say that they would like justice for Caylee no matter who did it. They haven't ever said or shown they would like to see justice for Caylee and I think that is what angers most people. They act like she has never existed and all their focus is on Casey. I understand that Casey is their daughter and she is the one that is still living, but they really need to remember Caylee in all of this too. I think LWOP is what Casey should receive so that she can think the rest of her life about why she is in there. The DP would have given her the attention that she seeks with all of the appeals she would be afforded, etc. Once she gets in a prison her life will be different than what she is experiencing in jail right now.
Judge Strickland is a great judge. He is the one that set the trial date and I am glad that JP stuck to that date. I am also glad that JP did not over turn the motions that JS denied. I think that JS wouldn't be as apt to give Casey the DP as Judge Perry would. I like both Judge Strickland and Judge Perry for different reasons and I am glad that we have been able to see both of them during this case. Thanks again for a great post! It is appreciated!
Hi Mary Jo - Actually, George has said on numerous occasions he wants to find the truth no matter where it takes him. He's also said he wants justice for Caylee no matter who did it, and that includes his own daughter. Of course, that was early on, but I do think deep down inside he feels the same way. Remember his shock and disgust after viewing Casey's images on her computer. He got to see the dark side of her.It was a rude awakening. Alas, he has a tight leash, but he still loves Casey. It would be nice if the whole family came out and said it, though. Right now, I think their mission is to save the life of their daughter. I don't know. What happens after this is over? Will the nightmare ever end?
Yup, good old Judge Strickland. A classier judge you will never find. Both are excellent, and one will never know now exactly how JS would have sentenced her - that is, with a guilty verdict.
Thank you for liking the post. That's just as appreciated.
IMO the death penalty has nothing to do with it, the A's have always sat behind their daughter. Even before the death penalty. I think the A's just have a problem with any kind of punishment.
Well, they may have that problem, but do they truly believe Casey will be set free? Can they really believe she is blameless?
Tks. for another great article, Dave! Yes, death is so final, and even though the Anthonys "know, in their hearts" that Casey killed little Caylee, I think they feel some guilt for what happened. The fights, arguments, choking etc...I think the jury will soon realize that Casey is a clear danger to society, and depending on the jurors, may feel that the DP is the only way to punish her, and keep society safe. They may also decide LWOP is more suitable. Whatever they decide, I don't think Casey will walk out on Mason's arms! It's not going to happen. imo Oh, she will put on her mask for awhile; but it will soon fade away, and her evil will be plain as day. Her hatred for her parents will soon be very obvious. Once the verdict is in, the Anthonys will be hitting every Media outlet available. They have probably made contacts months ago, and are "ready to go." imo
Hi Helen - My pleasure, and thank you for enjoying it. You want to know something? If Casey is found guilty, the judge can easily override the jury's recommendation, and when it comes to the DP, I believe Judge Perry is 9 for 9. EEKS!
Would I lie, withhold evidence, tamper with evidence, try to incrimate an innocent person, to get my daughter off a murder rap, for killing any child, not just my granddaughter? I pray to God that I would not.
I cannot anwer your question, Dave, in all honesty, if I would sit behind the defense if my daughter was on trial for her life. Until I am ever put in the position of the Anthonys, I just don't know and hope I will never have to find out.
Some folks look at the Anthonys and think they are condoning Casey's acts by sitting behind her in the courtroom. This is what makes people so hostile towards them, me included. I expect that Cindy and George are guilt ridden and will alway be plagued with the " what could I have done differently?", "am I at fault?" I could go on. George and Cindy have already been sentenced to life without ever being free from the anguish they are and will suffer forever.
I don't want to time out "my log-in" more to come...
You're right, Snoopy, they have been sentenced to a lifetime of anguish. That's very astute. Your answer was what I would expect people to think about. What would I do in the same circumstances...? That's a tough one. Thanks.
Yes, Snoopy! George and Cindy have already been sentenced to life without ever being free from the anguish they are and will suffer forever. You said it soo perfectly. Just as I was thinking but can't seem to put into words. I can't say what I would do if I were in their shoes. I don't want to even try. There have been many things my children have done that I am not proud of and I feel somewhat responsible for. I guess the difference is, I would have yelled all of my sins from the roof tops in hopes that I could somehow save my grandaughter and make my daughter see what she has done. I will always love my children but I would reveal what I know and knew for that very reason. Because I "love" my daughter. Until George and Cindy realize this, they will never be free.
Oh and I forgot to say that I thought Judge Strickland was an Excellent Judge and look forward to seeing him in a case again. I was determined not to like Judge Perry...till I saw him in action. He too is an Excellent Judge and I think there may finally be a little justice for Caylee. RIP little one.
Justice is coming, Barbface, and you can bank on it. You probably won't see Judge Strickland again, at least not for a long time. He is in the civil court, not criminal. He was picked for the Anthony case because of his sterling reputation for honesty and fairness. The man's a rock.
Trust me, after this is over and done with, there's going to be a big gasp; a moment of "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???"
Thank you Dave for another great post and I really appreciate it. I can't say I understand the turmoil that the Anthonys are in and the reason is I have never been where they are at now and I hope I never will be. However, you know their Grandchild is gone and their only daughter is accused of murder, should they hate their daughter for the rest of their lives because everyone thinks they should?? If they want some normalcy in their lives maybe they are trying to support Casey the best way they can. If she is found guilty(no one knows what the outcome of the trial will be) maybe life without parol would be punishment enough. The parents can go see her anytime they want which at times going to see someone is hard as well because of all the stuff you have to go, getting patted down, etc. It makes you feel like you are criminal!!
As far as the Anthonys sitting on the defense side, it is what it is and unless you are in their shoes then no one should judge them. If anyone wants to sit on the prosecution side then they shoud buy a plane ticket or bus ticket and go to Orlando for the trial in May. I think George and Cindy are drawn between their daughter and granddaughter and dammed if they do and dammed if they don't situation.
A bit about Life without Parol:
Life without parole is sometimes called a “true life sentence” because
offenders are sentenced to spend the remainder of their natural lives in
prison. A better term for this sentence might be death by incarceration, as
these persons are, in effect, sentenced to die in prison. Indeed, it is argued
here that the sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole can
be equally as painful as the death penalty, albeit in different ways. The sentence
can thus be thought of as “our other death penalty.”
Offenders sentenced to death by incarceration suffer a “civil death.” Their
freedom—the essential feature of our civil society—has come to a permanent
end. These prisoners are physically alive, of course, but they live only in
prison. It might be better to say they “exist” in prison, as prison life is but a
pale shadow of life in the free world. Their lives are steeped in suffering. The
prison is their cemetery, a cell their tomb.
Hi Janet - I think the only thing about LWOP is that while you hope for a retrial, you never have to worry about the final moment before an execution. You just keep plugging along.
Thank you, I am glad it gave you thoughts about how perplexing this case really is.
I'll chime in a couple thoughts. First, on the deadlines set by the judges - Judge Strickland was still juggling a caseload if I recall correctly, so he had this case along with others to schedule. Judge Perry cleaned his docket to dedicate his time solely to this case. Depositions are a bear to get coordinated and completed and it's tough when an attorney asks a judge for an extension of trial deadlines, but if one is going to request them, it tends to be with trying to get depositions completed and the unavailability of witnesses. There are a ton of them in this case. I think Judge Perry gave the defense their anticipated deadline because he has no intention of modifying it.
With respect to the Anthonys, I think their placement on the opposite side of the room is strategic. Think about it. They certainly stand a better chance of overhearing any hushed, private conversations taking place amongst the prosecutors. Those tidbits of information can be valuable pieces of information. I also think it gives them a better view of Casey. Finally, and this is purely my own belief, I think they are also sending a pretty strong message to Casey that they are there to support Caylee. They quit visiting Casey awhile back. Any nonsense they try to spin on it being because of the media is bs. I don't believe that. They can visit and talk about many other things to their daughter aside from this case. They supported her innocence to the point of making fools of themselves and they know it. However, once Caylee's body was located, they simply could no longer deny the circumstances and evidence. Just like all of us, they know something happened and they know she is responsible for it in one way or another. Maybe they even recognized the bag in which Caylee was found or just some little something from when they located her remains, and now they just know for certain. They aren't willing to hand over her head to the prosecution, but they have some little piece of information or evidence that lets them know for certain she is the one responsible. I think they are trying to physically and emotionally separate themselves from her and are bracing to prepare for the worst outcome.
Actually, I'm a Mom Too, Judge Perry did not have a clear docket. He recently presided over the John Huggins case and reaffirmed his death sentence. Jeff Ashton was the prosecutor. He still handles trials other than this one. Judge Strickland had many other cases on his docket, but they were all civil trials. Also, the Anthonys sit behind Casey, and trust me, every attorney in the courtroom whispers. I've tried to hear things, but it's downright impossible.
Dave, your post is an excellent weapon in making us stop and look deep within ourselves, a real emotion grabber and for which, answers do not come easily.
What tears at my heart strings the most is that a tiny girl gave her unconditional love. She didn't ask for much in return, a hug, nourishment, a bedtime story and a kiss goodnight. Now her birth mother's love was conditional... false, manipulative, it's all about me. The 'to hell with everyone else" kind.
It is sad to think that Caylee is backed by a group of strangers, us. The state will do their best to bring justice to the murderer of this precious little girl, even tho in reality, they are just strangers doing their job.
I hope that Caylee's relatives, from Ohio to Orlando and wherever Rick Plesea lives will pack the state's side of that courtroom at trial time.
Ahhhhh, Snoopy, the old weapon trick, huh? It gets 'em every time. Actually, my point of the post was precisely what you said; to get people to really think about it.
No doubt about it, that courtroom is going to be packed. I do wonder how many of Casey's relatives will make the trip. It's going to last for months. That's a long haul for out of towners. Me? I'll sit wherever I can.
Thought provoking post Dave.
George and Cindy are reaping what they sowed. Casey NEVER experienced consequences for her lying and stealing. They would have let her get away with murder, literally, as their actions have shown.
It makes no difference now where they sit. Casey's fate is in the hands of the Orange County judicial system.
This is such a toxic family, it's difficult to put ourselves in their place. Most of us have cultivated healthy relationships with our children and hopefully taught them right from wrong, so to me it's like comparing apples and oranges. I do have compassion for their plight, but I feel that they brought so much of this on by their inablility to see themselves as anything other than perfect.
I've spent more time thinking what if this and what if that...would Caylee still be alive? The why's and how comes are too late. Caylee Marie paid with her life for this "family" who have by all appearances abandoned her.
IF my adult child were on trial for murdering my grandchild, I would hope to God that I could find the strength to conduct myself with some dignity, tell the truth and do what is right. And no I can't amagine that I'd WANT my child to be put to death, but again, we all make conscious choices and then we live with the consequences.
Keep up the great work Dave, and hello to all.
Red
Hi Red - Sorry I'm late getting back to you, but let me tell you, it's great to see you!
If you remember, I usually try to write thought provoking posts.
Were George and Cindy lousy parents? I guess that could be argued either way, but in the end, do any parents deserve this? No, they weren't bad enough to warrant murder. No one is a perfect parent, and no one could have pictured their child doing something so horrendous. Some parents are lousy drunks and their kids grow up to be astronauts. I don't think we can predict what we will be when we are young. Some people start late in life. Others are just born bad, but did Casey ever show her bad side? None of her friends said so, other than lying and stealing, but murder? No one could have predicted it. For all my faults in life, I blame myself. Once I became an adult, I turned responsible for my actions.
As for the way George and Cindy act, absolutely, there's plenty of room for improvement, but I don't blame them for what their adult daughter allegedly did.
Than you. It really is a great surprise.
Ooops, My apologies to everyone for the lopsided comment. I totally did not read Dave's commentary correctly. For whatever reason, I seemed to recall at some point seeing the Anthonys sitting behind the prosecution and just breezed right over. I have not seen the recent hearings and I guess in my mind (and maybe my heart?) I thought it said they were sitting behind the prosecution.
No big deal, I'm a Mom Too... No, the Anthonys never sat behind the State and I will bet all the tea in China, we never will. Simple mistake, don't even worry about it. God knows I've made plenty of them.
Of course the A's don't want Casey put to death. I cannot give them credit for many things in all of this but I most definitely can for supporting/loving/forgiving Casey for murdering Caylee. (yes, 'forgiving'..because I believe they knew from day 1 that casey and only casey killed caylee..and we know this from the very brief time they cooperated with LE early on...especially George) I'd like to think that if I were in their shoes, I'd support my own daughter for her crime. But instead of refusing to cooperate with LE, lying, changing stories, accusing innocent people of being the 'real' killer-perhaps all of that time and energy should have been focused on them convincing Casey to 'do the right thing' in all of this and cooperate with LE< period. Based on what we know-that didn't happen. Yes, George tried to get her to draw that map but Cindy put an end to that immediately. I am someone who is FOR the DP. (on a case to case basis...and I wasn't always...it took the murder of my uncle to get me to see the DP in a new light) I imagine the thought of Casey remaining in jail for the rest of her life is heartbreaking to the A's...but isn't that better than the alternative of death? If they want her to stay alive, they should have worked on convincing her to cooperate and try to take a plea deal. This is her life...that's a HUGE thing to gamble at this trial and there is an EXCELLENT chance that a jury will sentence her to death for this. Instead of writing her letters babbling about Caylee being alive, write and tell her to come clean once and for all so she can stay alive.
I have to wonder what the A's feelings would be if someone else were actually responsible for Caylee's death...would the DP then be suitable?
Hi Stef - I can certainly understand where you're coming from and I agree. No one wants to bury their child under any circumstances, but the truth about what transpired should be the the first and foremost concern. To lie is not going to help Casey. In fact, I believe Cindy refuses to acknowledge the truth, and that's sad. In the end, truth is going to slap her hard in the face.
That's a good question about if someone else did it. I know, in my case, I would never hurt another person, but... the only exception would be if someone was attacking me or someone I know. That changes the playing field, and yes, I would do it.
Thanks!
HiDave,a very good thought provoking article and written in such a way that it will make you stop and think. The very last sentence is downright chilling. Years ago when my son turned 16, got his drivers liscence, he and a friend went out riding in the woods. Well boys being boys,16 and thinking they were invincible,found this logging site where the equipment was parked for the weekend. They decided to drive the skidder , got it stuck and punctured a tire. Monday morning a police officer informed us and wanted my son to go with him to find other boy. He wanted to take them to site and talk with them. The hardest thing I have had to do was watch my son being driven away in a police car even though I knew he would be right back and would be safe. Needless to say he learned a valuable lesson and I have never forgotten that feeling. IMO and I am putting myself in this picture George and Cindy sit behind the defence because they want to be physically as close to Casey as they can be.I cannot even begin to think about what goes through their mind in the quiet alone times. Do they think about how Casey could fool them about her job, the nanny, the stealing money,and all the other stuff. Those thoughts have to be so hard. They are suffering and Casey could care less. I just wish they would not focus all their anger on the people who tried to find CAYLEE and none on their daughter. Do they actually think Casey would be any different if she were set free tomorrow and they could go on with their life.They are going to have to come to terms with the true facts and face them if they are going to survive this.I think Casey should be sentenced to LWOP. Caylee can't come back to her life and I don't think Casey should be allowed to return to hers. Whatever happens I think Casey will make her family suffer for the rest of their lives. Lee will probably move on, but the "princess" will always control George and Cindy. Just sad no matter what.
Hi Margaret - I think we all learn lessons in life. Some more than others, but your son learned a valuable lesson, for sure. I think you might be right about wanting to sit as close to her as possible. By now, they must know and understand that Casey was a complete liar. Why they get angry at the people who are seeking justice is beyond me. Why can't they see that all roads lead back to Casey?
There's no doubt that George and Cindy will suffer for the rest of their lives and, sadly, their daughter will never care.
Thanks.
Dave,
i have read your blogs regularly and for the most, I enjoy them and appreciate your take. I think that that analysis here is skewed because you asked how a parent would feel were his or her child facing execution. If you are to ask that question, you must also ask would that same parent support the death penalty had someone other than their own family member murdered their child.
As an African American, I oppose the death penalty for very different reasons. You r question however, was very leading.
Regards,
Robert
Hello Robert - I certainly am glad you enjoy reading my blog and generally appreciate my take on things. I know I can't always toss a no hitter, though.
Of course the article is skewed, but even worse are the opinions about why sitting behind their daughter means George and Cindy never loved their grandchild. What I attempted to do was put people in their shoes and it just cannot be done. To not want to your child dead is not an opinion per se. It is something generally regarded as inherent in the human animal. In the way I asked the question, it was not skewed because it is the truth. No stranger killed their grandchild. I had to pose the question as a true barometer of what exactly is taking place. Fact, not fiction. True, not a supposition. In my opinion, that keeps it on track and, by default, not misleading. It is what it is, not what it could be instead.
Please come back often. I really would appreciate your thoughts on this case.
Robert~~I can certainly appreciate your stance on the death penalty. I am against the death penalty but, if one of my children were murdered tomorrow, I could very well change my mind. There have been too many innocents go to the gallows, electric chair or have gotten the lethal injection. Even if a person confesses to a murder, did they really commit the crime and are mentally stable enough to know? It is not uncommon for a suicidal person to provoke a police officer to fatally shoot them.
JMO, I think the death penalty is barbaric and should be abolished in all the states. I am not saying this because my country does not have the DP. It is just my own personal opinion.
good thing she is innocent huh...
peace
Right on, wign! Time will tell.
You went and did it again, Knechel! :-) You caused us all to search our souls, and having spent a great deal of time thinking about this, I have to tell you, it will bite my butt (excuse me, but there's not a gentler way to put this) if Casey receives the death penalty. I say this because so many are the murdered children who have been lost to the past. Few are the names and the faces the general public, who were once so deeply involved and affected, remember.
Why do we remember Jessica Lunsford? Because her father, Mark, became her champion and to this day doesn't allow her memory to simply fade away. The same goes for John Walsh. Because he is such a champion, we cannot forget about Adam. There are many.
Even in the matter of Charles Manson, we are reminded of the senseless loss of life when once again Manson comes into the public spotlight, as he has over the course of so many decades, even as Casey will, but only if she lives. Her life will keep Caylee's memory alive. But if she dies? Unless someone within the Anthony family (perhaps Lee) rises up to the occassion, as did Mark Lunsford and John Walsh and others, and becomes such a cause fighter on behalf of the missing and murdered, I fear that Caylee will fade off into the distance as so many have, regardless of any book written or movie produced.
Even Haleigh fades into near nothingness though she has yet to be found. We remember her when Misty or Ron, or any one of the other Hatfield's and McCoy's make headlines, or when one or the other of them offer up yet another tidbit of information to authorities, none of which leads anywhere but into the abyss of no where and Haleigh's continued ~ missingness. How tragic.
Aside from all of that, the death penalty accomplishes nothing. It doesn't deter crime. It doesn't dissuade murderers. I'd bet six toes that no cold blooded killer ever gives so much as a passing thought to the death penalty when involved in the act of murdering someone, and as has been so stated in the comments above, lethal injection and death itself is the easy way out. I want Casey to suffer for what she has done, and she can only do that if she lives. As Margaret said, Casey will always be a princess in the eyes of the Anthony's, so let them look at her and remember all that they would prefer to forget.
There is no suffering after death comes, in what a mere few seconds by lethal injection? That hardly seems fair. That doesn't seem like justice to me. How does a dead man pay for his crime? What remorse does a dead man feel? What does a dead man care that he's lost his life for the life he's taken? Let him live. Let him (or her) live for as long as it is that he or she is going to live so that they will always have to consider what it is they've done.
I've rambled again, and offer my apologies for the same. But you caused me to think, and so now you know my thoughts, but of course, if it were my child murdered, I might feel differently.
Oh, and Robert, you've sent my thoughts into over time with your comment. I can only imagine the thoughts that lay heavily upon your mind.
Yes, Feathers, I went and did it again. And you know something else? There you went and wrote something very eloquent. I don't know how many times I've thought that the death penalty is not a deterrent. A person who kills never thinks about the ramifications. They don't think they will be caught. What's interesting about this case is that, assuming Casey is guilty, there's no remorse. Even in her initial appearances in court and the subsequent jailhouse visits with her family, there's no emotion other than disgust with her family. That's what's so odd about this case. I don't know if she'll ever going to feel remorse, but it sure doesn't look like it.
Thanks for rambling.
Hi Dave and all. I wouldn't want my child put to death either. What I do have problems with is they are willing to toss anyone but Casey under the Needle. Anyone but her. They are so willing to let anyone take the blame FOR Casey. For some reason I don't believe Casey will be put to Death. Just life.
Hi shyloh - I must agree with you that the family blames this mess on almost everyone but their daughter, and that's a real shame. In my opinion, if Casey is convicted, Judge Perry will sentence her to death. He's got a perfect record, you know.
Hey! Great to see you.
Dave: No one would want the State to 'kill' their child. No one would.
This, however, reminds me of the days of Andrea Lyon and Jose Baez standing up in court stating that the State wanted to 'kill' their client. No, the State doesn't want to kill their client--the State wants to seek justice for the murder of Caylee Marie Anthony.
The murder of a 34 month old baby.
A beautiful child that had no one in life to protect her and love her; a child in death that has only the Prosecutors to care about her justice.
Let the Anthony's sit were they may; they'll discover soon enough that their lies won't help them find peace.
How would I feel if the State put poison in my child's veins? I would imagine I would cry great buckets of tears; but, I hope I would realize that my child had committed a terrible crime. I hope I would not stand and lie for her; and, I hope I would remember the beautiful life that my child had taken.
I admire your writing skills, Dave. The article was an intersting read.
I'm glad you like my writing skills, nan11. Thank you. I guess it's all in semantics. When the state asks for the death penalty, yes, they are asking the state to put the perp to death. Any way you cut it, that means they want to kill that person. My point here was not to preach. The only intent was to give pause; to think about your own child in a similar situation. Since you, me, or anyone else who's ever crossed my blog haven't been in those shoes, how would any of us so freely say, yes, death to my child? As for the Anthonys' lies, sure, but does that mean they deserved this? Trust me, I am NOT defending those people, but the animosity people feel for them does not translate into blame for what their daughter allegedly did to Caylee.
So I am feeling a little better today and I wanted to finish my thoughts.
Absolutely do not want my child killed by the state. With that in mind I think it is important to know your surroundings. I live in a state that utilizes the death penalty. My children know if you kill someone there is a good chance it could happen to them. I do not have perfect children ( I know I am just as shocked as all of you) but they know their actions have consequences. I am not a easy parent. However my children turn out is a reflection of how I raised them, alone by myself. They do not lie or steal! The truth is always better than the consequences and if they stole from anyone I would not turn a blind eye. That is a fact.
IMO G&C find it easier to pretend all is well so know one knows the truth. Casey stole from Lee, that should have been her parents chance to discipline her but no they didn't. She then goes on to steal from her ELDERLY grandparents. Her worthless ass should have been arrested. In my world children and the elderly are off limits.
I would want justice for my innocent murdered Grandchild. I would have encouraged my child to tell the truth and if they didn't I would absolutely walk away. I think I know the kind of people I have raised and if they acted like Casey they would be a stranger to me. I have not raised my children to lie, steal or murder. They lie for her. Would they sit behind ZFG? I doubt it, and they have said they do not believe in the death penalty. But I doubt they would care about a life of the nanny had their daughter really told the truth.
I am glad you are feeling better today, Laura. I'm all for punishing children, at any age, but suppose George and Cindy lived in NJ, where there is no death penalty. We wouldn't be having this discussion. Would that change anything? No, she still stands accused of murder. In my case, I have real problems with the death penalty. If you have not seen "The Life of David Gale", I strongly recommend it.
Have to admit, I'm back-n-forth on the DP issue. Do I see it applying here? Not likely. Does it work as a deterrent? I offer Florida and Texas and land solidly as a "No" on that one! Perversely, it seems to increase the likelihood of brutal murders. It does stop the possibility of that perp re-offending at least. On principle I don't think the State should put anyone to death, but some crimes are so heinous that DP seems to me the only proper response- Get Off Our Planet, You Sick Monster! Just in case you can EVER escape! (Ted Bundy!)
But there's a big difference between Casey and Joseph Duncan, who has managed to twist out of DP again- and he's the Worst of the Worst- a sadistic torturer of children. The crimes he committed in Idaho were the most harrowing I've ever read about, and if they can't put that Evil Sick Toad to death I just don't see it happening here. For anyone who's kept up with that one...
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_duncan16.5082461.html
Hi Karen - I wasn't familiar with this case until you supplied a link. It just never ends. I have no problem with LWOP if the lifers are sequestered from the rest of the population. In other words, put them in a death penalty setting, but give them LWOP. The DP is not a deterrent because most people who commit crimes don't think they'll ever get caught. They don't worry until after they're arrested, tried, and convicted.
Hi, Dave,
Actually, they have been asked as to their position on the death penalty. I am not 100% positive as to what show they were on (it may have been on the Larry King show). In any event, what I do clearly remember is that Cindy said she was not a proponent of the death penalty.
I wasn't aware of that, Rusty. Until now. So, if they are against the death penalty, I can understand why they wouldn't sit behind the state. Thanks for the info.
Hi Dave - great article yet again!!
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could never execute my daughter, who is coincidentally the same age as Casey. I would want her to get life without possibility of parole.
Personally, I am not per say a proponent of the death penalty with one exception - pedophiles. They cannot be rehabilitated/cured and unless we can come up with Pedophile Island, where they are all locked away for the rest of their miserable lives, I think for the sake of their victims, they should be executed. Harming a child in this matter, in my opinion, is THE WORST possible offense anyone can commit. As far as Casey Anthony goes - I think life in prison without parole would be the appropriate sentence - that way, she has the chance to dwell on what she did to her daughter for decades. I think, in some ways, that is a far worse sentence than the actual death penalty, because it is a slow, tortuous death.
As far as Cindy and George Anthony go - I have felt sorry for George more often than Cindy. I think that the lying apple did not fall too far from the tree when I think of that mother/daughter combo of Cindy and Casey. I will be greatly surprised if their marriage survives after Casey's trial is over. Just my opinion.
Thank you, Just Jill - I would be happy if Casey gets LWOP because she will sit and rot for many, many years to come. Death is too easy. Pedophiles? No punishment is good enough for them. Pedophile Island... I like it!
I've often wondered if George and Cindy's marriage will survive, too, after all is said and done. We'll have to wait and see.
Dave, indeed a very intellegent post and one to definitely give pause too. With your "reader poll" i think back and remember many months ago an "opinion" piece i had concerning the death penalty and why i would impose such a harsh penalty to such a young woman which leads me to this...(bear with me)this past Sunday my son comes to be and tells me and his mom that he is changing his name and will no longer answer to it he instead insists his name is Optimus Prime, his little brother is Sideswipe and i will be known as Bumble Bee and mommy??...well she's Sam (LOL) That is just one of those memories that will stick with you when they're all grown-up and one of many i'd suppose. Which brings me to KC and the delema now faced by her family.
I can only imagine the memories they have of their daughter as she was growing-up so yes, they don't want their daughter to die but at the same time they want justice for Caylee however I still dont see where their alliances are??
My sons are 4 and 2 and so their are A LOT of memories just like i dicribed what about Caylee? Was she given the same opportunity KC had to acquire some of those little memories?? I'd say no but who am i to say?
If my sons were responsible for someones death i know i'd be supportive of finding the truth. And theres the answer, have they accepted the truth?? When everything is stripped away there it lay's right in front of you. Their daughter is responsible for the DEATH of her own child. There are no more endearing memories that will involve little Caylee...i understand the conflict but to this day it almost seems they dont quit comprehend the seriousness of the situation; even at the begining of the year CA still believed that Caylee could still be alive??
KC for one has no inclination of what she is being held accountable for and has yet to show any emotion, other than the panic attack seen when Caylee's remains were recovered. If my sons committed such an atrocious act and showed no remorse, no emotion, no truth then yes, the DP is the only way justice can be served. I LOVE MY SONS DAVE!! MORE THAN THEY'LL EVER KNOW But i know that truthfulness and honesty needs to be instilled.
In the end Dave, I take nothing away from your stance on the DP because i completely understand. I really do. If KC would've came out and said she killed Caylee on accident or in a rage I'm certain i would'nt stand on the soapbox but the fact that she doesnt or didn't speaks volumes. Death is the ulitimate price. The ultimate punishment. Reserved for those who committ crimes against another human. Reserved for those who murder for selfless reasons. Caylee was the proverbial butterfly who never got to flap her wings. Who never had the chance to give her world(GA, CA, KC, LA) their own little memories...
I agree that George, but particularly Cindy, are having difficulties accepting the truth. They still love their daughter, even when all evidence points to filicidal murder. I don't think Cindy will ever resolve. She will live out the rest of her life in denial, and that's a terrible punishment in and of itself. If anyone thinks Cindy should go to jail, this is worse than that; agonizing and living in a state of confusion. I think I'd rather die.
Thanks, Bumble Bee. Your son gave you a lifelong memory. That's great!
Finally I write…. I have read this blog and the comments daily for two years now. I am fascinated by this case and no less by the relationships I have seen cultivate through this site. I have observed the “babbers” wreak havoc and have celebrated when they have been exposed and put in their place. I am continually impressed by the knowledge of the law, eloquent language, and profound exchanges that take place here. So….
Finally I write.
One thing that has really troubled me is the notion that the Anthony’s have not suffered enough and are virtually deserving of the misery they undergo daily. For as long as little Caylee was on this earth, her grandparents provided all of the love and devotion that she experienced, and of course deserved. Their loss is devastating. I hope I can never relate to it (as we have all said….). I wonder if part of their “support” going to Casey is in hope of hearing the absolute truth. I wonder if knowing exactly what happened could give them some sense of peace and closure. I don’t imagine Casey will ever break down and confess, but they have very little else to hold onto anymore.
I do not have children and will not submit “what I would do” in this situation. I know they have lied. I know they have tried to protect Casey. I disagree with these things. I think they are desperate people with no hope for happiness or resolution. And one thing is for sure…they cherished that little girl.
Hello SassyBass, welcome to the world of commenting! Those dregs of society may be down right now, but trust me, they are plotting ways to take me and some of my friends down. Evil is in their blood. They have no life other than to attack others. No family, no friends, and certainly, no morals.
I agree that Caylee's grandparents loved her with all their hearts. What Casey did is her fault, and hers alone. While I do not condone the lying, I cannot attack them for what their daughter did; the only person responsible for Caylee's death. No, she will never confess, and George and Cindy will forever live a life in hell.
Thank you for commenting. You are an intelligent and sensible person and it's appreciated.
Mmmm-exican....
I deleted that comment about dinner, so yours may look out of place now, but yes, Karen, it was delicious, especially the chili relleno. I had a little flan afterward, and it was the best I've ever tasted. My sugar suffered for it, but I couldn't resist.
Hi dave and all, One of my theories is that Caylee Anthony drown in the pool and Casey Panic. JMO. Well im going to go fix up my house 14 hours away where people can sit and talk about the weather. I need a break from the big city rat race... HAPPY Saint Patricks DAy.....
Hi Joy - She may have drowned, but it also could have been an intentional drowning. As Dr. G said, why didn't Casey immediately call 911?
I hope you're doing well in your new home, 14 hours away. Happy St. Patrick's Day to you, too!
Good evening Dave, I am glad that you are feeling better. I did reply on your last post but for some reason it never posted. I thought I was logged in but maybe not.
I am against the DP too but this case against Casey has gotten me so angry that if their is ever a reason to put someone on Death Row, she should be.
As far as Cindy and George goes, of course they do not want their daughter to get the DP, but to lie about whatever Casey has done and for Cindy to write those delusional letters does make one shake their head. The smell of death in Casey's car has now gone to a rotten pizza or dead squirrel.
What a great post this was Dave thank you, it is getting closer and closer to that trial.
Good morning, Paggy. Sorry I'm so late responding, but I sure did fall fast asleep early last night. Sorry you lost your original comment, too. I generally write mine in Notepad and bring them over to the blog. That way, I still have them just in case.
I can't get past all those lies, either, but no matter what, will they ever be happy again? I hope that after this, they go back to living an obscure lifestyle and do their best to put this behind them.
Thank you for telling me how much you enjoyed this post, and for mentioning my health. I have my bad days still, but lately I've been feeling pretty good.
When the state puts the DP on the table, it is not always that they want to put the accused to death. With the DP on the table, it is a guarantee that the accused will get LWOP. The defense may ask for a lesser charge but I doubt if they would get it in this case.
We will not see Casey get the DP especially when they do not have solid proof how Caylee met her demise, murder or accidental.
You may be on to something, Snoopy, but don't you think that if the jury comes back with a guilty verdict, they are saying she was guilty of capital murder? The only way they could call it accidental would be an acquittal on the murder charge. What do you think?
FYI~ Judge Perry is due to make his rulings on the Miranda and Agents of the State motions by this Friday!! Saturday is Casey's 25th Birthday.
55 days until May 9th when they start to pick a jury... It will be interesting to find out which county... or I guess that will remain top secret and we wont know??
YAY! I Can't wait!
Scott Peterson's parents don't think he is guilty either. If you read Scott's website the family thinks Scott is totally guilt free. I guess being a scoundrel, fooling around on Lacey, lying to his girlfriend and saying his wife is dead when she isn't, driving towards the border with $10,000 in cash was Karma's way of saying 'Sorry Scotty, you will not get off scott-free'. Casey may not have killed Casey either but Karma will punish her for everything she did do wrong like lying to LE, partying and not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days, stealing, and scheming her family's demise. Karma got OJ too.
You're right about Peterson's parents, Patti O, especially his mother. Same difference almost. Instead of karma, which I don't believe in, it will be a jury of her peers that deal with the mess. No problem with others believing in it, but when I wrote the two-part series on Jim Larson, karma made no sense. His sister was murdered in Gainesville. His wife Carla really comforted him in that time of need. Then she was murdered. He never did anything to deserve any of it. Why did karma strike him twice? I think bad actions have a way of working themselves out. Eventually, but not always. There are millions of cold cases out there just waiting for bad karma to drop by for a visit.
Thank you Dave for writing this post, I am touched that you are brave enough to stand on your own and let your understanding and compassion over ride any opinions that lead others to grow in dislike for the Anthony's. It is hard to believe anyone can lay out a pattern for life and expect their children to turn out the way they cut the material for them when the children have been given to us to love, guide and "pray" the path they take as adults are ones of endurance and gratitude for life itself. I read what others would do in such a situation, and ask myself what I would do. There is indignant criticism of the grandparents rather than or more than Casey herself, who is being held and charged with the murder of Caylee. It is almost like they don't want to believe Casey did this act and by punishing remarks toward the grandparents, satisfaction is gained. I question what any one of us has to gain by conveying such distaste for the grandparents or their behavior. How did we become so honored to think we are right. No one is right, we can't ever be sure we are right about our own life and how we appear to others and/or how it will end. How we appear to others seems to be important therefore we fall into a category of one or the other, even when we don't really belong in the picture. We put ourselves there as public opinion in trying to bring justice for Caylee. If Caylee could have her way with us, my guess she would not like our negative opinions of her grandparents one little bit. What is gained by comparing ourselves with the Anthonys, in what we would do in such circumstances, , What are we offering as a solution to the unfortunate people who are in this horror. The crime was committed. How can it be important for someone like myself to announce what I would do IF! What we would do in never concrete, for we could become as weak as we see the Anthonys under such circumstances. Would we be pleasing to others if we did everything opposite of the Anthonys and why would that be important to us, except to gain praises. I don't think that is possible because there are always those who are against us no matter what. God Bless those who believe they have all the perfect solutions. I don't believe I have perfect solution, so I think it is fair to allow what the other person has to deal with to bear it's fruit and to accept what we see as not being a good harvest. I also may be more judgmental and have more input toward Casey if we did not have our legal system, in which we trust those elected to carry the burden of coming to a decision for the sake of this murdered child, Caylee Marie Anthony but to come against the Anthonys serves no purpose. Also, I am not against the death penalty so much as it is just not my way, to want someone dead based on my inner thought and personal opinion.
Hello, New Puppy, it's always a pleasure to see you here.
There are a lot of puzzling and insanely complex issues at play in this case. We leave the trial in the able hands of state prosecutors. They will bring justice for Caylee, we cry. That's great, but why do people insist that this is the business of the state, but when it comes to George and Cindy, justice should come from a spiteful public? Who gave the public that right? I'm not supporting the Anthonys one bit, but I'm still reeling over those that would march up the hill, lit torches in hand, to burn down the Frankenstein monster they think the Anthonys have created. Take out the whole family! In a pragmatic world, not one single person could lay claim to Caylee. No one owns her. No one has a right to condemn the family to a lifetime of misery and, ultimately, the death they so think George and Cindy deserve. We are not the court. There is only one court of law that will deal with the problem. Yes, George and Cindy have lied. They have done everything they can to cloud up the investigation, but in the end, the white hats did catch the black, and she will stand trial.
There is no way anyone could firmly avow that they would gladly punish their own child with death under the same circumstances. I think it's OK to dislike the family. I think it's fine to condemn their lies, but to sentence them in the court of their own minds is unfair. After this trial is over, will these same people go on with their lives, or will they suffer the same fate as the Anthonys? A lifetime of hate and bitterness? They can have it. After all is said and done, I will move on and write about other things, and this will be etched in my mind. How people can be so vile and oppressive over one family that it interrupts clear thinking. Trust me, this is more of a condemnation of those who care to take the law into their own hands than it is about compassion for that family. I say, let the law take its course. If the Anthonys are not charged with a crime after the trial is over, let them be. Move on! You're right, what purpose does this hatred serve? In the end, the Anthonys will never be happy again. Why should anyone else suffer for it?
Thank you very much. Your comment is very poignant and it's very much appreciated. Thank you.
Dave: It pains me greatly to be in disagreement with you. I'll submit this comment in response--then I'll agree to disagree. ;-)
I don’t mean to quarrel about what the state means when they put the death penalty on the table. However, one might give pause to think about whom they are and what they represent, but that’s moo.
This isn’t about what the Anthony’s deserve—this is about the murder of a 34 month old baby and the person who the state has charged with the crime. Caylee was murdered; her mother stands accused.
Nothing G&C can do will change these facts. Many parents over the course of time have been in similar situations—most choose not to make it about themselves.
I ‘absolutely’ think that G&C did a lousy job of protecting Caylee. Caylee resided in their home. Indeed, it was her home. On the nights she wasn’t present, whose responsibility was it to find out where she was. Whose responsibility was it to make sure that Caylee was being cared for? IMOO, G&C knew their daughter was a liar, and wasn’t working; they knew their daughter had some form of mental disorder—how could they have expected her to take care of a baby.
I’m sure they never woke up one morning and thought my daughter is going to kill my grandchild—but they might have woke up one morning and thought my granddaughter is not being properly cared for and I better look into this.
I ‘absolutely’ believe they turned their backs on their granddaughter; but they didn’t do the ‘deed’. Their daughter did that.
They can stand (or sit) behind their daughter; they can forgive their daughter; they can love their daughter; they can continue to beg their daughter for a few crumbs of approval—but, the state and the prosecutors will seek justice for 34 month old Caylee Marie Anthony; and, imhoo, Miss Anthony will not only be held responsible but will face the consequences of her actions—for the first time in her sordid life.
The Anthonys will have to pick up the pieces of their lives, and move on. Somehow.
Good morning, nan11. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with most of what you said, I just don't think George and Cindy were bad grandparents. For 34 months, Caylee was safe in that home. Never was it implied that she was harmed in any manner by anyone at all, but especially George and Cindy. When Casey decided to move out, that's when this mess started. In the state of Florida, grandparents have no rights. None. Up until Casey left with her daughter, at no time were there warnings of what may come. That's my point. Granted, George and Cindy have done their best to boondoggle the authorities. Imagine if the family had cooperated instead, like they did in the beginning. Suppose they were role models instead, like John Walsh or Marc Klaas. Would it change the way they handled Caylee? No, everything would be the same. I just can't blame them for what their daughter did. Were they responsible for how Casey turned out? Probably yes and probably no. There's just too much to isolate and blame them for what Casey did. As for protecting Caylee, up until July 15, even her friends, the people who knew her best, never saw any of this coming. None. Personally, I think the parents are blaming themselves and that's why they spit and hiss. It's a built-in defense mechanism. I certainly don't think it's the proper way to be, and they can be real a-holes, but when this is over, we will go on. They will sit in muck forever.
I hope this helps explain my position. One thing I want is differing opinions, and it's natural for people to disagree. My God, you should hear Snoopy and me on the phone!
Wow! That post sure got the thought provoking comments. I typed a huge long one myself last night then logged out due to typer's cramp :).
The part of your comment that I seem to come back to is the differences between Judge Perry "keeping things on track" vs Judge Strickland. I know you admire Judge Strickland and I have an idea if he had stayed on the case we would have been at this same spot due to his calendar. That's not what I talk about when I talk about how good Judge Perry is at keeping things on track and going despite Baez. From the first Judge Strickland aggravated me to no end because he let both lawyers bicker in the courtroom. Perry doesn't. Presenting an argument is one thing, but bickering is another. It's the petty stuff. Like different teachers can accept different behavior in their classroom while sticking to a criteria, so do these judges. I wonder if Strickland would have demanded the apology the second time or even given the sanctions the first time to Baez. He seemed more tolerant to misdeeds. So on this we will still agree to disagree. I prefer Judge Perry's strict rules.
As for the death penalty, Casey, her parents and how they all feel, I could care less. I have 2 daughters and long ago I told them both I love them to death but if they ever do anything that causes them to be put in jail they'll stay there because it was them that did the crime and them that should live out the sentence. How would I feel if they put poison in my daughter's veins? Of course it would devastate me... but there is a 2 year old baby who might also have had something put into her to make her drowsy enough to get duct taped up. It was a 2 year old baby who got dumped in the woods so grandma wouldn't know. And why? Mommy was angry! I would let my daughter know I loved her but detested her actions, then I would visit her as often as I could, and see what the court decided. I would not make up excuses for her.
I think it's great to be able to disagree and still remain friends, Connie. As for court demeanor, you may very well be right, but as far as the schedule, it's the same as Judge Strickland mandated; right on time.
Where I do agree wholeheartedly is that Casey deserves punishment. Big time. I would not lie, make excuses, and blame LE for the woes of my child. In the end - YES! - life in prison, but not death. Death is the easy way out.
Sigh. I guess the login problems have circled back around to me again. Oh well, it's in moderation lol. I log in but by the time I get down here the login is gone.
There it is... right on top of this comment.
Dave, I have almost come to the conclusion that the problems arising now and then in this blog has to do with the log in. It seems some of us get bounced out after we have logged in. You may have the techs at SSpace look into this feature. I know SSpace automatically logs a person out after an hour has elapsed. This causes comments to go into moderation. Maybe it can be set so we can stay logged in for longer periods.
I sent Squarespace a ticket about 3 weeks ago addressing the issue with logging in. I also mentioned that one hour is not enough time. I was told that it will be discussed among the technicians. I told them it's annoying for me, the site owner, as well. Let's see if anything comes out of it. Thanks. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
nan11 you said it best!!
They can stand, or sit, behind their daughter but may i add this...they should rise-up for Caylee!!
What i have difficulty with, and i did say it long ago, is the "eye for an eye" theory or the two wrongs dont make a right but what makes it more complicated, at least in my mind, is when the equation involves children. Once this factor is plugged in, in addition to the investigation, the accused, her actions leading up to and after? As a lay person and you have the option of the DP or LWOP what is the right choice?? ...i dont like giving the proverbial "thumbs down", i am no Ceasar and i thiink , to some degree,the DP is over utilized but no matter what it is part of our court system and is reserved for the most heinous of crimes.
There will always be both sides to the ultimate punishment and whether or not its constitutional or if it falls within the confines of "human rights"; but i digress a little ,when it comes to the victim...who advocates for them...a guilty sentence means squat, you get 3 hots and a cot...no responsibilities so it seems to me KC has lived the life up to this point perfectly so which way to sway...???
But i will reach out to those who do not beleive in the DP and believe it to be cruel and unusual (and yes i am one of those who says "shouldnt the crime against the victim be considered cruel and unusual therefore the perp has no argument) although it is the most extreme example, in the end, it is still a crime against a child but in this case children, 28 that were confimed. Albert Fish murdered and ate those children...no one came to his defense? (after reading this case for a Psych class i came out with a different view of the DP)Granted this happened a long time ago but if he were standing trial today where would you stand?? For Mr. Fish they lined up wanting his head so what's the difference, he was a grandfatherly type...she's the motherly type?? Both are put in a possition of trust (granted Mr. Fish was not a grandfather but locals viewed him as such) but where is the line drawn?? If you are going to argue the atrocities against a child, especially when the end result was death, how can you consciencely advocate against a possible sentence that could bring the death to the person who committed the crime?? To begin with, you are told not to kill, that there will be consequences and, if you believe, you will be judged when you stand before HIM but I'd like to think i want to judge now not later...JMO
BMan I agree that the death penalty is the only penalty justified for people like Albert Fish, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc. .. the really hard core criminals. In this particular case I wish Casey a long and unfullfilled life behind bars and not the death penalty. She was a party girl, a woman with a temper, a liar, and eventually a killer. She deserves nothing better than to be kept behind bars for the rest of her life. At least she'll have one, Caylee doesn't.
And i see that nonniefl she is just a girl, a young mother, a young mother who was burdened by responsibility, burdened by her daughter. You can easily put her in the same catergory as Fish and Dahmer as they were monsters...granted they had more victims between them but they are were maniacal, calculating. All 3 had a plan, and all 3 carried it out...on the other hand KC, IMO, would never continue killing people, become a serial killer but it does not take away from what the end result was. Rather it'd be one, a dozen, or two dozen... She is a monster but a think we muddy our vision when the monster is actually attractive, young, etc...
I am reminded of a case many years back about a mother in her 50's or 60's who had 3 sons. 2 of the boys had severe nerve problems, like debilitating. They witnessed in their younger years what this desease did to their father and asked their mother if they ever came down with it dont let them live. As a mother, of course she was conflicted as she watched her children deteriorate to a shell of themselves with little bouts of normalcy that came and went but when they were having those "good days" pleaded with their mother...please mom, end our misery...both of these boys were in a hospice, shared a room, both would have their final dinner with their mom and she would later come back and shoot them both. She would obviously be charged with two counts of murder 1 and it carried the DP...many screamed fry her, no excuse, a mother should never kill her kids; but more wanted her exhonerated and i was one of them. Do you see the difference?? in the end, and at last told, she was serving LWOP and her 3rd son was starting to show the symptoms of what his brothers and father endured and his last comment was "i wish my mom was here"...
In the eyes of the law she is guilty, in the eyes of humanity and moral fortitude i find her not guilty. I wish i could remember this mom's name or any other part of it just to see what has happened to this point...
But your last comment, IMO, explains or justify's to me my thoughts, why should she have a comfortable, unresponsible life when her daughter didnt? Perhaps, she will have a moment of truth and just come out 10, 15 years down the road and explain her actions but i can honestly see her as another inmate who is innocent and is the victim of "the man"??
Dave: I scrolled up quick and I didn't see this linked; but I apologize if it is and I missed it.
Caylee's grandparents: No doubts daughter Casey is innocent; Larry King Live, May 14, 2009
Quote at about 28:40 minutes in:
King: Would you favor that whoever did this crime should face the death penalty?
Cindy Anthony: You know, I'm not a fan of the death penalty for anybody.
King: George?
George Anthony: I'm opposed to it.
End of quote.
Dave, news today is that the trial may be "suspended or cancelled" if the budget to sequester the jury is not available. The cost estimate to do so is currently at over $300k. What exactly are the implications? It can't possibly mean that the state won't try her, does it?
Judge: Casey's Trial Still Set For May, Despite Concerns Clerk Raises Funding Concerns About Jury Sequestration
Dave: I will share a little bit of a personal story that will show you it’s not only the state of Florida where grandparents have no rights.
Relatives of mine were in situation similar to the one the Anthony’s faced prior to the murder of their granddaughter. Their daughter, like the daughter of Mr. & Mrs. Anthony, was out of control—partying, drinking, and doping— honestly, worse than Casey, imo.
Their daughter also had a beautiful, little girl. These grandparents, like George and Cindy, doted on the little girl—they wanted to give her the world.
They were, shall we say, a little more honest than the Anthony’s—they could see what their daughter was. This is no exaggeration when I say that they tried everything; every possible thing they could think of; to gain permanent custody of that child. They talked repeatedly to Social Services; they saw lawyers; they outright tried to keep her one night which resulted in the police arriving at their door with instructions to pack up the baby’s belongings and hand baby and belongings over to the baby’s mommy.
These grandparents never gave up. They really put themselves out there—family members were beginning to suggest that maybe they should stop; maybe they were going too far. Eventually they were told by the ‘authorities’ that if their complaints did not cease, the child would quite possibly be removed from the mother’s custody but that would most likely result in them (the grandparents) never seeing the child again. Never.
Well, this caused them to change their tactics somewhat. They stopped reporting their daughter to the ‘authorities’; but they stood by that little girl. They saw that she was properly dressed and properly fed. They saw that she went to school. If they got a call in the middle of the night that the child was alone, one of them left their bed and went to be with the child. They went above and beyond the call of duty. They never tired.
However, my story has an ending nearly as sad as Caylee’s. After all the effort the little girl’s grandparents put into her—when she turned 17 years of age, it was discovered she suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. She is alive today, but it is a sad, sad state of affairs.
Had the child lived a more stable life with her grandparents would the outcome have been different—we will never know. However, what we never question is how hard the grandparents tried.
Snoopy, Casey can and just may get the DP. Caylee had Duct Tape wrapped around her nose and mouth three times. Their is evidence that Caylee was in Casey's trunk. There is plenty of evidence and if the State of Florida does their job they do not have to prove just how Caylee was murdered. Just ask Scott Peterson, he is on DR and the jury did not know how his wife died either.
I feel there were signs that Casey was a menance to her child. Perhaps not to suggest that she'd allegedly kill her, but the writing was on the wall that Casey's lifestyle was being curtailed by motherhood, and Caylee was starting to talk. We need only look at her actions during the time that Caylee was "missing". Sickening.
Cindy has disclosed early in the unfolding of this tragedy that she wanted custody of Caylee, therefore I believe that she suspected Caylee was in some kind of danger. I recall that Cindy also had accused Casey to be an unfit mother. Casey told Lee "maybe I am just a spiteful bitch" after she told him she hadn't seen Caylee for 30 days. Mrs. Pleasea said it best, "I think Casey hated her mother more than she loved Caylee".
There's no doubt in my mind that Cindy and George adored that child and were loving grandparents. However when does being a responsible loving grandparent end? This is what irks me. Sure, they love Casey, and don't want her to die. George admitted on the stand that he'd do "anything" to save Casey's life. So just what exactly does that entail I wonder? Intersting as all the arrows are pointing in one direction.
None of us would want this kind of heart ache, and it is a complex matter that we can't possibly understand totally because we're not privy to ALL the mitigating circumstances, and likely won't be.
Sorry, I'm wondering all over the place, a little out of practise! And Nan11 I agree with your sentiments.
I have felt pro and con about the death penalty over my life time. Now I am against it. To many people have been put to death based on their finances, color of their skin, how the police gather evidence and somewhat due to the politics of where the crime happened in. That was and is wrong. Until our sentencing is just for everyone, our labs above reproach and attorneys that are w/o an agenda the death penalty is not fair.
Just my thoughts and I respect those who think differently.
In Casey case, she has been treated fairly, the labs seem to very responsible and attorneys are w/o an personal agenda so..!
The Anthonys are in a situation I cant relate to. I do know most of the remarks and actions the Anthonys have been out of line of normal.