MISSING
MISSING - Lauren Spierer
Sierra LaMar
MISSING - Tiffany Sessions
MISSING - Michelle Parker
MISSING - Tracie Ocasio
MISSING - Jennifer Kesse
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 at 4:00PM This isn’t my best uploaded footage. It was quite dark, which is too bad, because I don’t have a professional video camera, film equipment or lighting. I may try this again with a different camera, but I think you will understand my point. It was a hunting trip in my opinion.
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Reader Comments (56)
Thanks, Dave, for another revealing look at the truth. In watching this a couple of times you have to ask yourself, "how is Zimmerman supposed to have seen all he lays claim to while parked at the Clubhouse"?
Better yet, how is Trayvon supposed to have seen, what would only be, the upper half of the gun's handle sticking above Zimmerman's pants in the pitch black darkness when his jacket supposedly rose up?
Course, I'm still trying to figure out how that jacket "rose up" with 158 lbs "mounted" on top of it!
Hello, LLMPapa! Great to see you!
There are only two things I can think of. One, he first spotted the boy earlier, when it was lighter, and, two, he used his headlights. There's no doubt George intimidated Trayvon. Hmm... there's a third possibility. George made stuff up.
What's also quite interesting is that George's shirt remained tucked in. It was tucked in when he arrived at the police station in handcuffs. He was handcuffed immediately at the scene. Either his shirt never came out of his pants or he tucked his shirt back in after placing the gun back in its holster. Neat freak, huh? Gee, the jacket rose, but not the shirt.
Thank you very much!
Thank you Dave. What a different perspective the world has on gun violence on this one year anniversary of Trayvon's death. So many more eyes opened; so many more voices raised. Who is listening?
A question: Was the light in the still shots the flash on your camera?
Dave, I do not understand your last line comment in the video, about the wind having nothing to do with the sound??
He SAW IT?
http://youtu.be/hkkmG7KTYjw
LLMPapa, "You're going to die tonight ------------ I think George turns it all around, when it works in his favor. This sounds like something he would have said to Trayvon on approaching. Also, I do not recall hearing Dee Dee state that she heard any such remark at the moment of Trayvon's supposed attack.
Thanks for the video Dave.. It's always been my opinion, that confrontation started at the location of Trayvon's phone and George's flashlight. Dee Dee heard the phone hit the grass and I find it hard to believe George held on to the flashlight.
Oh and him walking is one of the few things, he has said, that I believed. His voice didn't sound like he was running, while he was talking. But one thing I did notice, after he confirms that Trayvon ran, for the duration of the call, the wind never picked back up and his voice didn't sound like he was walking either. Makes it hard to believe, he ever walked to retreat view circle. I hope he takes the stand. I would love for him to explain, how Trayvon got from the clubhouse to the T and back down to circle his truck in less than 30 secs. I surely hope justice prevails in this case. George Zimmerman belongs behind bars.
Portia - Thank you! And yes, what a difference a year makes, but it still won't stop the likes of overzealous people like GZ. Those types of guns will remain easy to acquire, but I am all for stringent background checks. Even so, there was nothing in his record to stop him. Then and now. Too bad.
On the still shots, YES, my flash was on. Otherwise, the camera would have seen as much as the video captured; virtually nothing.
New Puppy - In the NEN phone call with the dispatcher, you can hear wind in Zimmerman's phone. In my video footage, you can hear wind, too, and I wasn't running. My point was only that the sound of wind doesn't prove he was running. It doesn't prove he wasn't, either. Actually, it proves nothing.
GREAT OBSERVATION, LLMPpapa!!! There's absolutely NO WAY Trayvon saw that gun, let alone gave Zimmerman a chance to access it. That gun was out already as far as I'm concerned. Especially in that darkness. This was a hunt.
Joanna - My pleasure, for sure.
It's going to be tough to prove where the fight began, but I seriously doubt it happened at the T like GZ said it did. Certainly, if TM was near his house, he would have had to run to a spot where you couldn't tell if someone was there or not. I will say with complete certainty that, from that distance, TM could not have seen GZ. Period.
I can also tell you that GZ was, in fact, running when he exited his vehicle and arrived at the T for the first time. I walked it and timed it and his time was 1/4 the time it took me. He said so himself, so it's prrof he was running up to the point the dispatcher asked him if he was following the boy. OK, we don't need you to do that.
We may never know the truth about that night, but we do know that GZ is a liar.
Thank you!
OK, the sound of wind doesn't PROVE he was running, but you agree he was running! However, the combination of George's voice and the sound of the wind indicates a pick up in pace. One point is if it was this dark! Couldn't see! George sat there and gave a pretty long spiel about Trayvon. All this talk, "he's coming toward me" etc. must have been a set up for his plan. I can believe that George knew which house Trayvon was headed for, so instead of chasing him, George took his gun out, and headed to wait for Trayvon to come in close proximity of this house. I also believe that George had been told Trayvon was out, that is why George went out (groceries, bs) to "hunt" . Dee Dee told Trayvon to run run, and Trayvon was not going to run at that point because he thought he lost George and felt safe enough, closer to the house he was headed for. George waited somewhere for Trayvon. How far was the body from that house? Did George put a gun on Trayvon and order him to "walk" quietly away from the house?? "Why you following me for" "what are you doing out here"! Was George going to take Trayvon back to his truck. Even George never stated that he told Trayvon who he was or why he was following him. Trayvon knew he was in big trouble, and maybe made some effort to push George away.Dee Dee said the phone was "shut off" I don't think Trayvon would have "shut off" his phone, if anything he would have wanted it on. I would like to know if Trayvon passed by Frank Taffee's house when he left the complex headed to the store. I would like to know if George went and spoke with Frank Taffee before he pursued Trayvon in the direction he may have been told Trayvon was walking, if he went past FT's house. Nice guy or not, I still do not believe that George went out to get groceries and just happened upon this young black male. He knew Trayvon was accessable and he knew where Trayvon would be headed for when he came back. He knew who this boy was, maybe not by name, but from his having been there before. Also Dave could Trayvon have maybe even walked past George's house on way to store, and George saw him then. Just asking.
The intent to begin with was not one of trying to do the right thing for the neighborhood, it was a personal, sick trip that George had probably dreamed himself doing. The play had come to the theater, and George was the star! In his mind he still is!
Anyway it was a good Night Cap to have this Dark Video. Says a great deal about George and his extent of cooking up lies. He sure saw a lot that night in his description of Trayvon's moves after getting back within the grounds of the complex, when he couldn't see in the dark and I don't think he shone the flashlight in Trayvon's face. If anything he wouldn't have wanted Trayvon to know where he was. I don't think Trayvon mentioned to Dee Dee, this guy is looking for me with a flashlight!
New Puppy - I believe he was running, but the noise in the phone doesn't actually prove it, and that's the way the law will look at it. The fact that he got to the T the first time in 1/4 the time it took me to walk it will show he was running.
I do not believe GZ had any sort of clue as to where TM was staying. He didn't recognize the kid and that's what set the ball in motion, unfortunately. He certainly could have had his gun out, though, while searching. I truly feel that the run-in was by pure chance, in the dark, but that GZ was on the prowl.
One of the biggest mistakes GZ made was that he never identified himself. Had he done that, the shooting wouldn't have taken place, although TM still wouldn't have been under any obligation to stay. But the main thing is, the opportunity never arose.
I do not believe GZ was on his way shopping, either. What sparked it, I do not know, but GZ did not recognize TM at all. To him, he was just a bad problem. There was no way TM would have walked near GZ's house. That would have been way out of the way, and there was never an entry point nearby.
Great thoughts, by the way, and thank you for that.
Thankyou thankyou thank Dave for all you do .
I remember the tireless effert you took on to show us exactly where Caylees remains were located.
Anniversirys.
Drive throughs of areas that the m s m never has the time an local knowlage that.
You give up time effoet Your a frakkin hero.
You An the likes of LLMPappa are Trayvons heros.
Just like in that tv show hogans heros you have all the angles covered.
An the idiot defendant is like the idiotic Camp Gaurd whos stock reply to any questions.
Was I know Nothings Nothings I swear.
Dave, I want to second what Ecossie said about you and llmpapa. I truly appreciate the hard work and dedication y'all put into this case.
Thanks Dave,
Another great job. I have a couple of questions.
Were the lighting conditions at the mail area more like the video or the still photo? The clubhouse videos show a car driving on TTL and stop in front of the mail boxes just before the nen call begins. That car appears to make a uturn and stops facing the mail boxes near the first bend on TTL.
I used one of your videos for timing. I added still frames from your video at the spots where the car in the clubhouse video stops.
If Trayvon was standing in front of the mailboxes, and GZ was parked in his car as shown in my video, how much could GZ have seen?
http://youtu.be/ao2GOSndSRg
I have another question. Did you take the photo of the mail shed from the parking space in front of the clubhouse?
Can you get the same view from inside a car?
I really appreciate your kind and encouraging words, ecossie. My objective all along has been to bring the area into focus for people around the world. It was true in the Anthony case and it's true now. If I can help shed light on what occurred the night of February 26, 2012, then that's all the satisfaction I need.
I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't consider myself to be any sort of hero. Thank you.
Thank you, Joanna, I try to remain dedicated.
Amsterdam - I would say the mail pavillion lighting was somewhere in between the video and the still picture as far as lighting is concerned. The flash on the camera did add brightness to an extent. When I walked through the pavillion, it was light enough inside, but outside of it was relatively dark.
I watched your video. I would say that, to the best of my ability to discern, Trayvon would have been quite visible from inside the pavillion; however, that doesn't mean he stood there facing the street. If I were being watched, I'd go around to the other side and peek out to see where and what my stalker was doing. As long as he kept his distance, I'd be OK with it. I think... but I'm also an adult, not a 17-year-old thinking about the girl I'm on the phone with. That would be distracting to an extent.
(I took the photo of the mail pavillion from the front left cornerof the clubhouse; not from the street - between the building and bushes.)
Dave - Not only background checks, but laws that make what GZ did illegal and punishable. IM0: Laws that make concealed carry illegal, and punishable. IMO: If someone wants to keep a handgun in their house, and by doing so increase their chances of getting shot by a handgun three or four hundred percent, that's their business. If someone wants to keep a gun at a club and use it there and in competitions, great. If someone wants to collect guns with the firing pins or whatever removed, great. But the idea that wandering around the streets with a loaded gun is a net plus is factually inaccurate and a tall tale fostered by people who just want to make money no matter what. You know this, I know. But I think it's important to keep stating the facts.
Portia - I think that stringent background checks is a necessity. If a law like this saves one life by keeping a weapon out of the hands of an unstable person, then great. There are problems in other areas, though.
I met with some of my friends yesterday and some are gun owners. They told me it's nearly impossible to buy ammo today because it's been bought up by people concerned with losing their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. Like food and water hoarders as a hurricane approaches, this is the storm that's been created. Obama is going to take our guns away! Well, he can't do that, so it's not true. They know that, too, so they told me he's stopping the sale of ammo. OK, fine. You can buy a gun, but you can't load it. Simple solution.
It's not.
Just like the Prohibition, what will happen is that ammunition speakeasy joints will open up across the land. As an alternative to that, people will buy the ingredients to produce their own bullets. While the innocent homeowner has his house broken into, he will have nothing to protect himself from the likes of an armed assailant. The bad guys will keep their guns and use them more often because no one else is around to stop them. There's no deterrent.
You see, I have never owned a gun. I will never own a gun. I have no desire, but that doesn't mean guns don't have their rightful place in the world. By world, I include Russia and China and Iran and other countries that would swarm all over us if we decide to live under blissful, idealistic conditions, where everyone is harmonically balanced with the universe. It will never happen; here, there or anywhere else. Humans have a violent side and there will always be bad people.
The bottom line is that Democrats and Republicans alike would have to vote to repeal the 2nd Amendment, and that isn't going to happen if any of them expect to get re-elected. Well, not unless we change the system and make the president the only decision-maker, leaving Congress as a token group of powerless men and women. I guess, in the end, my point is that there are no simple solutions to such complex issues. There will never be firing pin police to come check on us, and the loaded guns wandering the streets will still be Saturday night specials. The likes of Zimmerman? I just don't have an answer for you. I don't like concealed carry laws, either, but does the Constitution guarantee the federal government supremacy over state matters? In some areas, yes, and in others, no, so instead of drawing guns, lets draw lines in the sand and see which way it goes. That's a start. Should there be such a thing as state's rights?
Thanks.
Dave,
Thank you so much for this video. Your dedication is admirable.
I have alot of questions and need my notes.
I will return to comment.
Thanks again for all that you do.
[And thank you, BlushedBrown. I'm sorry I'm so late getting back to you, but I went to St. Pete for the weekend. The Dali Museum. Please DO return with questions whenever you want. I look forward to it!]
Dave,
Of all the remarkable things you've shown us, this video is perhaps the most demonstrative. It answers the final question: How much ambient light was available from any sources at the critical moments? Thanks to you now we know. If anything conditions would have been worse, the hardest of the rain fell while Trayvon Martin sheltered under that mail kiosk and we can hear the defendant's windshield wipers caught within the recording.
A teen boy---any teen boy---would have understood immediately that the individual within this distinctive vehicle was a threat once he became aware those particular headlights and taillights had passed him by more than once and were still there. Teen boys love cars, recognizing makes and models is second nature to them. No wonder he fled and perhaps (perhaps!) he ducked to his left. The hunter's flashlight wasn't working properly, the blackness hid him as well. The teen emerges shortly to resume his walk home using the shortest possible route---down the back sidewalk. But the hunter hasn't given up.
Special thanks as well to LLMPapa and his group, and Amsterdam and that group, outstanding contributions by all.
Hang in there, Dave. Your presentations continue to amaze.
[Hello, CoffeeLover! Great to see you.
I think the video clearly points out that the area was fairly dark, so there wasn't much to see on the night of the shooting. No creepy kid jumping out from the bushes, and no Trayvon seeing GZ from a distance, near his house. GZ made things up, bushes and all.
There's a hearing tomorrow morning (3/5) at 9am. Hopefully, I can get another video in showing it in a different light, plus whatever else people want to see that I can deliver.
Thanks, I'm glad you're amazed!]
Dave, Your reply to Portia (March 1, 2013) on the subject of guns is an excellent informative read!!
[Thanks, New Puppy.]
I'm on the road for a good part of the day, but I will be online tonight, so please bear with me until then...
Dave -- Nice to read your post. As always, you are the height of gentlemanly consideration and even-handedness. I know you don't like to do gun control debates here, so I hesitate to write again on this topic--not least because I said my piece and that's enough for me. I will just add, however, and that all guns are not created equal, and, respectfully, your words do not apply equally to all guns. And for the record, my dad was an experience amateur gunsmith; I grew up around guns--rifles, to follow my own advice and be specific. I have shot rifles and shotguns and the occasional handgun my whole life. My dad and brother were hunters, and I have myself hunted. I kept a shotgun in my room for years when I lived in the boondocks. These days I favor mace, which has the merit of not killing people if used. Every year I write out a dozen hunting permits for neighbors to hunt on my land and have no problem doing so. This is a different universe from people who are free to take handguns into Target or to buy military-style assault weapons. The motivations are different and the dangers are different. As are the commercial realities.
[I don't mind doing gun control debates, portia, as long as they don't turn south.
No, not all guns are created equal, but the same could be said about anything that can be used as a deadly weapon. Nobody, for instance, is going to go deer hunting with a tank. I do agree that guns are different because of what they are designed to do. A hunting rifle is used for hunting. Or it should be. But it could have other uses, too, and that's when problems arise. Too bad we can't contol that.
To be frank, I have serious problems with concealed carry permits for public use, but most people aren't morons like Zimmerman, either. So what's right and what's wrong.? I don't know.]
Dave, thank you so much for the video; I'd long wanted to know the lighting in the mailbox area (specifically, as LLMPapa had also wondered, whether it was bright enough for Zimmerman's ability to discern that Trayvon was wearing a dark gray or gray hoodie.
Two questions. What is the source of the bright light when you're south on the dogwalk and you turn around towards the T? At first I took it for a streetlamp, but I've never seen anything that would suggest that one would be there.
And, second, did you notice anywhere in the complex near where you were if a patio light was on? I was wondering how far one would reach beyond the patio itself.
Anyway, you've done us "researchers" a great service, and, again, thank you.
[The source of the light comes from street lamps on the next streets over, toward the front entrances. The gaps between buildings is where the light is showing through. The back porches didn't give off enough light to go anywhere, so that wasn't an issue.
Thank you, nemerinys.]
Actually, it was a long road trip and I'm not going to be back online until sometime Saturday, so please forgive me for now. I promise, I will respond.
Dave, Amsterdam and LLMPapa. Thank you all for your work and commitment.
As I was watching the video Amsterdam put together, at 7:08:53 or 13 seconds into the video, I can see light colored pants walking from the right of the mail shed. At 7:09:11, headlights are seen passing the mail shed. GZ makes his NEN call thereafter.
One thing for sure is that GZ did not see Trayvon standing by Taaffe's house.
@xena
Actually I think that was the car passing. We didn't agree about some of the details. I think the lights we see later are from the flashlight. Tchoupi and Whonoze didn't think the beam from a flashlight would show up the way it did in the eph. But what you thought were pants moving in the eph looks the same as when other cars past the eph.
It would be great if Dave could do some kind of experiment. Stop his car just past the path leading into the mail shed. Clamp a tactical flashlight from the car window, and film it from under the eph camera.
Amesterdam. IMO, 7:09:11 of the video is a headlight because the side light on the back follows. It would not be a flashlight. There are no other forms (for want of a better word) in the video like the one 7:08:53. The sequence also, and then GZ's NEN call all line-up to that being Trayvon leaving the mail shed and also GZ following and then making his NEN call.
Based on DeeDee's statement, Trayvon was in the mail shed. At some point he had to leave the mail shed. That is the only time on that video that something passes out or by the mail shed that is not a light.
Remember GZ's words on his NEN call after giving the dispatcher the address for the clubhouse, and being asked if the suspicious person was there; i.e., "He's coming towards me now."
Now, giving you guys kudos for analyzing those videos, I'm sure that you're much more familiar with where GZ was parked when he said that. IIRC, it was whonoze who believes that the lights demonstrate that GZ had made a U-turn when he said that, which would mean Trayvon was walking towards him.
Xena, re: thought that whonoze believes GZ had made a U-turn, wouldn't GZ's lights be full on Trayvon if he was walking toward GZ. I feel that 'IF' Trayvon was still on phone with Dee Dee at that time, Trayvon would have also said something of like to Dee Dee. " this guy just made a U-turn and is coming toward me now" ,
Thanks, Dave for the video. I'm very curious, if you ever go back to try and discern the field of view of the pool camera, the one that looks across the swimming pool and down TTL. If you go there again, could you please stand as close to the location of the pool cam and take some still shots - daytime and nighttime would be ideal, so we can place exactly what the camera is facing. A series of shots would be ideal, panning all they way left and right to simulate the wide angle of the security camera. Important clues are visible all the way across the lake far to the right in the pool cam video, where windows reflect the arrival of vehicles at the front gate, especially emergency vehicles.
Questions regarding the probable U-turns and the probable car-to-pedestrian chase might be answered better with more data regarding what the pool can can and can't see.
I'm trying to remove the speculation from this short video:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/8091882736/in/photostream
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
There is a consensus of regular posters at BCClist that believes firmly that GZ drove down TTL behind TM for a short time - this is what I mean by car-to-pedestrian chase. Dee Dee herself seems to say as much in her first, poorly recorded interview with Crump, plus the timing of the NEN call itself strongly suggests this took place. In addition, GZ marked a map during his questioning that shows he may have parked facing the mail kiosk as the pool cam video seems to show. He quickly crossed out this positioning and amended it to the "final" alleged position just before he first related the "doubled back/ circled my vehicle" false narrative. It's a key clue that is often overlooked IMO.
Again, what I really want is still shots of the pool cam's POV, day and or nighttime. The same alignment is more important than height of the camera, which may not be easy to duplicate.
I'm simply looking for further proof by going deeper into what is and isn't possible to be seen in the pool cam video and could use the help of someone with access to the area.
@xena
I think that GZ blocked the bend opposite the mail area after he made the uturn. Trayvon had to move around the car, when he started walking towards the T. He could've passed GZ on either the street side or on the grassy part next to the houses. If he walked on the grass, he wouldn't have been seen on the video.
Dave I know that music is from a movie. Its so haunting I was wondering if you knew the name of the movie it was in.
Knock knock!!!!!!! Poppin in to say hello!!!!
Dave,
Great to see you, too :) And so all the months of jibber jabber from the defense re any form of SYG was for naught. A surprise-- not!
Must have been codespeak for, "I've got nothin'"
Good video Dave and Papa. Because it was raining the doorways would be dimmer. I agree he must have been following TM with the headlights on. That alone would spook any normal person, let alone getting out of the truck and chasing him down.
Well it's "Trash DeeDee" time.
Orlando Sentinel 3/6/2013
In court in Sanford yesterday, attorneys acknowledged that she lied while under oath when she said she had missed Trayvon's funeral because she had been in the hospital.
That was the second piece of misinformation tied to her. The attorney for Trayvon's family, Benjamin Crump, earlier described her as 16 on the day Trayvon was shot. In truth, she was 18
Who didn't see that one coming?
Also looking for evidence on Facebook because there are hints he was on weed... give me a break! When was the last time you heard of anyone going beserk on weed of all things?!
Dave - The difference is that you can never stop the George Zimmermans of the world from being punks, but you can stop him from having a gun in public. Be well!
Hey Dave~ ~ just stopped in for a quickie. Things are still busy over yonder so I am just hearing bits and pieces of the Zimm case.
It looks like the Arias trial will go well into April at the pace it is going.
That aside, I need some info from the master himself and that be you. What's up with Dee Dee? I mean do they know what is true? Was she really 18 when questioned under oath? If this is the case and she was not a minor, can she be charged with perjury for lying? Does the state have to be the one to make this charge or can the defense?
Before anyone jumps on me for trying to trash Dee Dee, that is not the case. I am just looking for the truth. I will have to admit that I was picking up bad vibes when I learned Crump had interviewed Dee Dee before the state had a chance. How come ABC got the audio so fast? Did Dee Dee get paid for that interview tape and if not, what was the reasoning behind giving it to them?
I can understand why O'Mara is not going for the immunity which would no doubt be denied by Nelson. Since Zimm would have had to take the stand, why should Mark show his poker hand before the real game is played on June 10th.
Bye for now, Dave. Shock the hoot out of me and answer my questions!! *wink *wink
Marinade Dave?
How can Dee Dee be 18 when she's 2 years younger than Trayvon? But even if she is 18 what difference does that make? She's a witness - she's not the one that will be on trial, so I don't get why this is an issue.
I never heard her say she was in the hospital the day of Trayvon's funeral. I thought she said she was too distraught to go and plus she lives like 2 hours away - she may not have had a way to get there - and AGAIN why is this an issue. Its not against the law to lie about why she didn't go. And it has no bearing on the case whether she went or not.
I also thought that the cop that interviewed DeeDee first said they couldn't find her at first because she was in the hospital. This would've been the first few days after he was killed - the funeral was a week later. My memory could be off about this so I'm not sure but one thing I do remember was that detective kept repeating her answers over and over to verify he understood her and then a few minutes later he would ask her the same question again. This happened multiple times to the point where It became very annoying. I remember this with perfect clarity.
Hi Dave. Just dropping by to say hello. I'm noticing that you haven't replied to anybody in awhile. I hope all is well.
George Zimmerman's attorneys on Monday formally accused prosecutors of being unethical, saying that for seven months, they hid a pair of lies by their most important witness, and that they should be punished for it.
The allegations, spelled out in a new court pleading, mark a new low in the case.
Read more here...
O'Mara: Fine prosecutors for hiding witness lies
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN’S BROTHER NOT REALLY HELPING
Yooohooo.....wake up everyone....the Captain of this ship will be at the helm soon....
AUDIO: 'Witness 8' interview in George Zimmerman case
Read and give a listen here....
Audio and article
More info here....
Zimmerman's defense says state attorney's office broke rules of discovery
Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Trayvon Martin's family, has filed new paperwork, saying there's no valid reason for a judge to reverse herself and order him to answer defense attorneys' questions in the George Zimmerman murder case.
On Feb, 22, Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson rejected defense attorneys' initial request, agreeing with Crump that he was not at the scene of the shooting and could provide no material details.
But last week, defense attorney Mark O'Mara filed new paperwork, asking her to reconsider.
Read more here....
Crump: Judge, don't make me answer questions from Zimmerman's lawyers
Dave, where are you??? I miss your witty posts.