Gun Power
Sunday, July 8, 2012 at 7:29PM There’s been plenty of talk around the blogs and forums of late about working out a plea deal. You know, why not let George Zimmerman plead guilty to a reduced charge of manslaughter and get it over with? It would save the state of Florida a lot of money, and that’s what this was all about to begin with, right? Well, yes, it would save money but, no, it was not what the state had in mind at all. Well, maybe there’s one major detail, which I’ll explain later.
To begin with, I now agree with what former lead investigator Chris Serino said about the manslaughter charge. He actually knew what he was talking about, but before any of you throw racial darts my way, or missiles of any kind for any reason, you’d better keep an open mind and read the entire article or you’ll be spending some time left out in the cold during one of the most brutal summers on record.
Yeah, George, take the plea!
No, don’t!
Any way you look at it, if he is convicted of second-degree murder, it goes without saying that it would be a felony conviction. But what about manslaughter? Would it be a felony or a misdemeanor if he’s convicted of that instead? Murder is a piece of cake to explain. It means that malice aforethought must be present, whereas in manslaughter, it’s absent. Absence of malice. OK, that’s easy enough to grasp, but what makes it a misdemeanor or felony?
Involuntary manslaughter means causing the death of another person without intent. Generally speaking, it’s caused by an improper use of reasonable care while carrying out a lawful act, or while in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony. Let’s say drag racing with your car that results in a homicide. You took an unreasonable and high-degree of risk and that’s considered criminally negligent manslaughter. On the other hand, let’s say you’re chopping down a tree and accidentally hit someone with the ax — killing him — there’s nothing criminal about it. In many states, depending on the degree of involuntary manslaughter, it could be a misdemeanor or a felony.
In the case of voluntary manslaughter, we’re talking about an intentional killing that’s accompanied by added circumstances that mitigate the killing, not excuse it. In its most common form, it occurs when a person is provoked to commit the homicide. This is felony manslaughter, and it goes to the very heart of the Trayvon Martin shooting death, whether it’s considered manslaughter or second-degree murder. Either way, if George Zimmerman is convicted, it will be a felony conviction. Interestingly, the Orlando Sentinel reported that the paperwork originally sent to prosecutors stated that there was probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. The Sentinel article went on to say that it “was signed by lead Investigator Chris Serino and his boss, then-Sgt. Randy Smith, but it was the department’s official position and had the support of [former Sanford police Chief Bill Lee Jr.] said Capt. Bob O’Connor, who oversees the department’s major-crimes division and also was part of the investigation.”
Well, what’s all this hubbub about manslaughter or murder? Why is the public split on it? I mean those in the Martin camp. You see, it really doesn’t matter and that’s why some attorneys believe the state overcharged. Of course, that major detail I said I’d explain later could be as simple as getting him to plead to something — PLEAD DOWN — but it’s not. It can’t be.
You see, back in the late 1990s, George Bush’s younger brother, Jeb, was governor of the great state of Florida. He pushed through a law, Florida Statutes, Section 775.087 (2)-(4), that became effective on July 1, 1999. What was it, you ask, that could have come from a conservative, gun-respecting, NRA-allied Republican; the same Jeb Bush who signed SB 436, better known as “Stand Your Ground” into law in 2005?
Why… the legislation enacted his initiative providing mandatory sentences for felony convictions of crimes in which a gun was used. Plain and simple.
For pulling a gun during a crime, a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years is imposed. For certain felony crimes or attempted felonies, the 10 year mandatory sentence is authorized if the criminal possessed a gun (or destructive device). For firing the gun during a crime the mandatory minimum sentence is 20 years. For injuring or killing a victim by firing the gun during a crime, a mandatory minimum sentence from 25 years to life in prison is authorized. (See: Mandatory Sentences Under the 10-20-Life Law and Experts: Florida’s ‘10-20-Life’ empowers prosecutors but handcuffs judges, juries, defense attorneys)
So you see, forget about whether it’s second-degree murder or felony manslaughter because, either way, they are both felonies and if you are in Trayvon’s camp, all you want is a conviction. Stop worrying about a plea. The least Zimmerman could get would be 25-years. That sort of changes the perspective on Mark O’Mara now, doesn’t it?
Dave Knechel | tagged Capt. Bob O'Connor, Chris Serino, Governor Jeb Bush, Sgt. Randy Smith | in 10-20-Life, Angela Corey, Benjamin Crump, Bernie De la Rionda, Bill Lee, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, Mark NeJame, Mark O'Mara, Natalie Jackson, Orlando Sentinel, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Seminole County Courthouse, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (77)
Snoopy, there were security videos from the clubhouse that night which many say they believe is GZ-a man with a red jacket on.
Sherry~~thanks, I believe that I watched that video and couldn't make much out of it.
Thanks Snoopy. The video I believe had been released a while ago from the State with the 7/11 video. Pretty sure Nan left the link. She has links for things I have not read or heard about. I do not know how to go back to her links because it is not on the side thingy anymore it is from the last post? Sorry everything is a thingy until I know what it is called. I just click on the name at the top on the side to get to the comments.
I do not remember him saying anything about walking around the Clubhouse Sherry. You can see someone for a still shot with a flashlight, it appears. I guess that is why I thought the State picked Murder 2. It shows Mr. Zimmerman doing exactly what he refers to an accidental run in. My words he basically said had he not needed to run to Target this would not have happened. BUT if he were truly patrolling it is not accidental.
I am sorry I do not know how to write what I mean. How do you guys do this? I feel like a moron. My words get confused between my brain and my fingers. You all write like the books I read. Hopefully you guys can decode moronic questions, lol.
Michelle~~maybe this will help you navigate around in here. Let's say you are facing the monitor. On the right and left of your screen are the sidebars. Now if you scroll down the left sidebar, you will see the Archives. This is where all the previous posts are listed. I just copied a few. You can click on the ones in Archives and it will take you to that post.
Archives
Gun Power
The Bond Conundrum
Through Paranoid Eyes (The Clincher)
Through Paranoid Eyes
Former Sanford Police Chief Speaks Out
George's Reenactment and other links
The Complex Perplexities of George and Shellie Zimmerman
Not to worry, I can understand what you are trying to get across in your comments. You are a very insightful young lady when it comes to analyzing this very perplexing case.
LOL, I did not realize I was analyzing, I only wanted to know why the Murder 2 as opposed to the manslaughter. Unlike everyone here I did not follow the Caylee Anthony case, but if some people are right and this is over charged it makes me wonder why the prosecutors in Florida keep messing up.
I can remember side bar. That is how I know who is here- leaving their opinion or question. So those other things are more post Dave wrote about this case? It may help me if I read them, then maybe my brains and fingers will work better together. When this new one showed up I thought Dave took the other one away. Eventually this will get easier, this case interest me because of the age. Plus Mr. Zimmerman seems shady.
Thanks for helping me. Dave sorry I am o/p (don't know what that means exactly) and do not know exactly how it happened. Others have apologized when they write about other stuff that have nothing to do with what you write about.
Dave do you live close to the Townhomes? I am not sure how far they are from Orlando. To defend myself I am not good at reading maps either. Quick example riding in car with Mom a couple of years ago, she told me to find Farmland on her map. I looked forever and then asked how to tell what farmland looked like on a map. She meant the town. Just curious because you have been in the courtroom for this case also.
One more question about leaving a post, when I type out my question and I click on create post, it says it has been submitted. When I typed out stuff for my Mom it popped right up, am I doing it wrong? I use my name and email address. Dang this question is complicated because I don't know what the heck I am doing wrong.
Bet you all hope my fingers get broke so I go away.
I just watched the re-enactment tapes where GZ goes through how things happened. Part 1 at about 2:31 GZ starts in that he had left for the grocery store but then he says "I just felt like something was off balance". Then he goes into the story about the previous burglaries and his wife having seen one of them, etc etc. To me, he was looking for trouble or he would not say something was off balance. On part 2 at about 3:14 he briefly mentions going for his cell phone. I personally think this is when he started for his gun and the reason that TM punched him. There is no reason for GZ to have mentioned going for his cell phone.
Then at 5:28 in part 2, GZ states he felt TM arm going down his side talking about TM going for his gun. GZ is struggling for his life but can feel TM's arm?
I would like to know also how you slam a bald man's head many times. GZ had no hair for TM to hold onto.
I am stuck on these few things.
Michelle: I think they have him charged with 2nd degree murder because he purposely pulled his gun; deliberately aimed it at an unarmed teenager; and shot that child clean through his heart--point blank range.
They know it and he knows it.
Can they prove it to a jury of his peers? Most likely not--but it won't change the truth.
Those surveillance videos were released in discovery and they tell a very interesting story of their own--that Trayvon was being pursued for much longer than Georgie boy is admitting to. However, they are grainy and very difficult to decipher; and to top it off the time clocks monitoring the cameras are apparently all wrong.
So, Georgie gets a break--but, as I said before, it does not change the truth of what he did.
imho
I'm looking forward to new discovery. : - )
I have always wondered why George Z. said he was the one that was screaming if it wasn't him. How did he hear about it?
Shyloh~~Z would have cetainly have heard Trayvon screaming so wanted LE to think it was him. In that way he could claim self-defense. That is if, it was T doing the screaming which sure sounds like a younger voice.
Audio: Seminole Co. Fire Rescue radio following Tryavon Martin shooting
I haven't looked through here yet, but here is a link:
WKMG - 284 pages of new discovery
Trayvon's Hoodie
Notice how high-up the 'shot' was. :(
WTSP Photo Gallery
Quote:
New Trayvon Martin crime scene and evidence photos released in George Zimmerman case
On July 12, 2012, prosecutors released these crime scene and evidence photographs in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.
End of Quote
WKMG - Zimmerman Call, Previous Encounter
WKMG - Zimmerman Reports 2 Teens
George was certainly suspicious of 'teens', imo, anyway.
He finally ended up shooting one dead. And iirc, that is just about in his own words!
I'm still reading...
Dave~~if I were deliberating as a juror and the only evidence I had to base my decision on was what came out today.... Zimmerman is definitely not a racist. Zimmerman was the one screaming for help. Yesterday, I swore it was Trayvon crying for help so changed my mind after reading the docs.
As per the docs today, Z comes across as very wimpish and scared of his own shadow. He sounds like he has been babied all his life by family and friends. (with the exception of his mother) He wanted to be a judge more than a cop... he was/is very judgemental. I thought what the ex-fiancée had to say was going to be much worse.
I am anxious to hear some comments from the others who poured through all those pages.
[I think the most important thing for EVERYONE to keep in mind is that Zimmerman is not going on trial because he is or isn't a racist. This is a murder charge and we must remember what Prosecutor Bernie Di La Rionda was careful to say in his description of the defendant. He said Zimmerman criminally profiled his victim. He never said he was racially profiling him.
I've got a few observations I will put up tomorrow. There's some decent stuff, but is there a smoking gun?]
Dave~~It would be my pleasure to leave race out of the equation and just deal with the criminal evidence.
I am going to make one of my uneducated predictions... they are never right but here goes anyhow.
After Shellie Z's arraignment for perjury and she gets that settled away, she will no longer be standing by her man. That is if she reads all of today's interviews that came out in the doc dump.
GZ is a paranoid individual who should have been 'grounded' a long time ago by someone in his family who knew he was out control and out of touch with being a responsible member of society. GZ is a rouge individual, who got more brazen as he went along. There was warning signs that no one in his inner circle paid attention to and he finally spun out of control. Someone dropped the ball when they should have recognized how off balance he really was. His father is a judge. His father knows behavioral problems when he sees them. I hold GZ absolutely responsible for killing TM, but someone should have realized that GZ should have never been allowed to carry a gun. Not only for the protection of society, but for his own protection too.
Well said, nymima. It seems that Zimmerman was able to fool his friends and co-workers. On one hand he was a sociable, caring young man but on the other he was manipulative and deceptive. It is like he had two personalities. He definitely wanted everyone to cater to him. Maybe his mother tried to dicipine him and so he broke off relations with her. He figured he was untouchable. He definitely is a sneaky character.
Dave~~maybe I missed it but did you see an interview with the gun shop owner where Zimmerman purchased the gun that killed Trayvon? I think it is called Shoot Straight or something like that.
Dave: Well, I didn’t find a ‘smoking gun’; so, I will be looking forward to your thoughts.
What I found, though, was a man who exhibited two ‘sides’—one sweet and good, well-adjusted even. Polite. Educated. On the upward ‘move’ in places where he worked; going to be a success someday. Has some friends in the right places. (And maybe relatives, no?)
And then there was the other ‘side’. The side that cut his mother’s electricity because they had had a disagreement. A side that slaps women around. Kicks dogs. Gets himself a gun.
Remember—no sleazy private detective had to dig around in the muck for Mr. Zimmerman’s ex-fiancée. She called before much of this had become public—the day after Trayvon’s death, iirc. Still in terror after all those years.
George had been smart. He counter-filed. Thus making it her word against his.
Clever, cunning, boy Georgie.
This time he killed a child armed with ‘Skittles’, a watermelon drink, and his cell phone. A child who screamed in terror as he looked down the barrel of Mr. Zimmerman’s gun.
Within a few days of a cold-blooded murder, we find Mr. Zimmerman went out searching for a replacement gun.....
However, I bet George is not too discouraged. It might still work for him.
Shellie won’t leave him. Not now. There is too much money involved. (Imho, of course.)
GZ took on a situation that was not in his job description of self-appointed NWC. He was not trained to investigate nor follow-up on what he perceived as problems in his neighborhood. He was not authorized to investigate nor follow-up on what he perceived as problems, and he certainly was not ready nor trained for what he encountered that day when he stalked and hunted down TM. When Trayvon finally confronted GZ, GZ couldn't handle the situation, so GZ pulled out his gun and killed Trayvon in cold blood.
Oh yeah - GZ supporters. Tell me again why this man was allowed to carry a gun? It wasn't his right. He was NOT a rational person and there were way too many red flags that were covered up along the way that could have prevented this man from EVER owning a weapon.
George went out an bought himself another gun affter this tragedy....A gun known as a cop killer capable of peiceing an armoured bullet proof vest...If he needs a boost to be a big man he should consider elevatoers for his shoes.A lot cheaper an safer than a fire arm...
ecossie possie: Oh, well said!
This is a good recap of yesterday's discovery, (if anyone doesn't have time to wade through the actual documents.)
Miami Herald - Detective in Zimmerman case said he was pressured to file charges
Nan11~~thank you for the link to that article. It was a great read and easy to understand. A very good summary of all the events that took place within the Sanford PD.
So witness #9 is not the ex-fiancée after all. Is Judge Lester due to make a decision about the interview of this witness? Does O'Mara want her testimony sealed or is it a matter of it not being allowed into evidence? Anyone know??
I knew this was coming. O'Marah has filed a motion to have Judge Lester. Article at same link posted by Nan11
Yes, he did, Vicky, and if anyone knows about asking judges to step aside, it's me. I'll have a thing or two to say about it, too.