No Smoking Gun?
Friday, July 13, 2012 at 12:58PM 
There wasn’t really any shockingly new or surprising material in Thursday’s document release from State Attorney Angela Corey’s office, but I did manage to squeeze out a bit of information. Ever since this news story broke, my main contention with George Zimmerman was that he got out of his vehicle with a loaded pistol to chase after a figment of his distorted imagination — a hoodlum; a bona fide bad guy. Prior to yesterday’s release, we knew nothing about Sanford’s three main gangs, all known as “goons” in one way or another. Could Zimmerman have uttered “f*cking goons” under his breath during his now famous call to a Seminole County police dispatcher that fateful night of February 26m 2012? It makes more sense than “cold” or “punks” doesn’t it? And it’s a matter of fact that the majority of those goons are made up of minority ethnicities; African-American and Hispanic. For me to say so does not make me a racist.
One thing is certain regarding race. Not one of the nearly 30 people interviewed considered Zimmerman to be one, either, and I, for one, never believed he was from the gitgo. If anything, look at the city of Sanford and Norm Wolfinger’s office for racial issues but, even there, I would dare say you will never find anything close enough to substantiate claims of bias. Odds are good that had it been a Hispanic wearing a hoodie that night, his fate would probably have been the same. Zimmerman was on a mission. Look to Bernie de la Rionda for guidance on this matter. He maintains that Zimmerman is guilty of criminal profiling. That’s a far cry from racial profiling. On this issue, I suggest we move on because there is nothing to substantiate any prejudice and all that will come out of it will be feuding and hard feelings among commenters. The real issue remains the same. Zimmerman profiled, stalked and murdered an innocent teenage boy. Regardless of what anyone feels Martin had done prior to that night, he did absolutely nothing to deserve what he got — a hollow-point bullet through his heart.
I’m going to start by taking this page-by-page. I will readily admit I didn’t get everything, so I will rely on you, dear reader, to fill in the gaps and offer up your ideas. There’s a lot to discuss.
§
On page 11 of the 284-page document, State Attorney’s Office Investigative Division Memorandum, an enlightening statement was made by a Sanford police officer:
“Officer Mead saw the flashlight ‘on’ at the intersection of the two walkways when he responded to the scene.”
Actually, the flashlight was found south of the intersection, as the maps will show, but the part that’s very revealing comes from what Zimmerman told investigators during his next day reenactment. He specifically said his flashlight was not working that night.
“… I had a flashlight with me. The flashlight was dead, though…” (Watch HERE; 8:11/15:04)
This is another example of Zimmerman’s imagination getting the best of him. Does he assume that changing the facts literally changes the facts to his advantage? Does he think people are so stupid he can pull the wool over their eyes, including trained law enforcement investigators? Yes, I’m afraid so. It also means, in my opinion, that he pounced on Martin, cop style, with gun and flashlight in hand, right in the young man’s eyes.
§
On page 34, during the night of February 26, while at the police station:
“The Evidence Technician came and collected clothing and photos of Zimmerman. The injuries to the back of the head of Zimmerman appeared to be abrasions and not lacerations.”
What this tells me is that Zimmerman was never close to his demise. If Martin popped him one, it was in self-defense and he he had it coming. It also tells me that those butterfly bandages on the back of his head, placed there by his wife, (shown the next day during the reenactment) were a farce and nothing more than a pity ploy to make him look more injured than he was.
§
On page 54 of the document, and part of the FDLE Investigative Report, Wendy Dorival put on a presentation at a Retreat at Twin Lakes HOA meeting at Zimmerman’s request. She is a civilian liaison with the Sanford Police Department. Held on September 22, 2011, she clearly instructed Zimmerman of the rules. A witness (name withheld) at the meeting said that:
“… it was told, you watch, you do not take any action on your own, you get away from the situation and you call the police.”
These are guidelines, not laws. Zimmerman was not supposed to be carrying a firearm, either, but he was licensed by the state of Florida to do so. The point of this is to show that he was aware of the rules, yet he chose to ignore them. Why?
§
On page 60, one of the witnesses noticed that the loud noises were getting closer.
“They first thought it might be kids in the neighborhood or people having a good time outside. Hearing the noise a second time, he decided to mute the television. Not hearing anything at first, he heard the sound again as if it was coming toward him and getting louder.”
What this signifies is movement, which contradicts Zimmerman’s account of where the fight began and where Martin fell to his death, which were in close proximity. According to Zimmerman, there was no running; no real movement. The maps show that the fight did not take place where he said it did, and Martin’s body was found farther south.
§
On page 65, another witness describes what she heard and saw. To be fair, she did take her contact lenses out before being compelled to look out of a back bedroom window:
“Hearing what sounded like running, she glanced out of the bedroom window (rear facing) to see a person go by from left to right (in a south to north direction).”
What this tells me is that, if true, Martin and Zimmerman were farther south than Zimmerman explained in his reenactment, and that Martin was much closer to where he was staying; in the townhouse that was east and most south of the sidewalk where he fell.
§
Another witness, on page 71, states that he heard what sounded like an argument, right in the area of the T-section on the walk way. He then said:
“… he heard a scuffling sound that was moving down the walk way getting closer to the building next to his house.”
This means the chase headed north, but the ensuing battle moved Zimmerman and Martin toward the south, as one of them fought back. (See map)
§
On page 74-75 of the FDLE Investigative Report, Wendy Dorival said she never had any further contact with Zimmerman after their September HOA meeting until the following month, when he requested information on a recent burglary that happened in the area. However, at the meeting, she gave him a neighborhood watch coordinator’s handbook and explained all the duties and responsibilities. She also asked him for something else:
“Dorival said during the meeting with Zimmerman she asked him to make a list of all the neighbors who wanted to be involved in the crime watch program. Zimmerman was then to determine who would be willing to be block captains and get her the list… Dorival said Zimmerman never provided her with the list of names for the crime watch program.”
This can be highly revealing. Was Zimmerman a loner? Was he a vigilante who wanted all the glory for himself? Or was he lazy and someone who didn’t follow through on his obligations? Not according to his work ethic, where he was quite adept at his responsibilities, according to interviews with associates.
§
Page 76 is a very telling page. The FDLE report explains what agents found in Zimmerman’s possession the day he turned himself in to authorities on April 11:
“Upon the completion of booking Zimmerman into the Seminole County Jail, SA Rogers transferred a Fabrique Nationale Herstal (FNH) Five-seven handgun cal. 5.7 x 28 SN# 386201358 and three magazines with ammo to SAS Duncan. SA Rogers stated that the handgun and magazines were the property of Zimmerman.”
It’s my understanding that this particular weapon is a police killer because of its ability to pierce armor. I imply nothing by stating that. You can formulate your own opinion, but the gun was fully loaded and each clip holds 20 rounds. That’s 80 bullets, folks. I understand his fear and desire to protect himself, certainly in light of the New Black Panther Party threat against him, but my question is whether this particular gun is overkill. Until his arrest, it was still legal for him to carry a firearm. To those who give to his cause, you’re out $1,200, plus extra clips and ammo. If he’s found not guilty, thank yourself for buying him one helluva pistol.
§
On page 78, Zimmerman spins his tale to a witness, who I will assume is Frank Taaffe, Joe Oliver or Mark Osterman. What really intrigues me the most is how Zimmerman was able to pull the gun out of his holster. Of particular interest is the fact that he is left-handed and the holster was on his right hip, set-up for a left-handed person to reach across his chest and belly to go for the gun. While that might not seem like much, it also means that when he went for the gun with his right hand, he either fired it upside down or he had the time and space to turn the gun right-side-up before firing it straight into Martin’s chest:
“Zimmerman used both his hands to pull Martin’s hands away from Zimmerman’s mouth. Martin then observed or felt the handgun on Zimmerman’s side, took his other hand away from Zimmerman’s nose and reached for the handgun stating, ‘You’re gonna die now Mother F*cker.’ Zimmerman slapped Martin’s hand away from the handgun, pulled the handgun, rotated the weapon and fired one round. Zimmerman’s elbow was on the ground at the time he fired.”
I find this to be extremely problematic for several reasons. It means that, since the bullet went straight into Martin’s chest, he had to have been perfectly parallel to Zimmerman’s body at the time the bullet was fired. Why? Because earlier in the interview, Zimmerman’s friend said this:
“Martin and Zimmerman struggled, which resulted in Martin gaining a position on top of Zimmerman, sitting on Zimmerman in the ‘mounted position,’ Martin’s butt on Zimmermans stomach, with Martin’s knees on the ground next to Zimmerman’s ribs.”
With knees positioned the way they were, how does one wiggle their way out? How did the gun move from behind Martin’s thigh to in front of it? If Martin was riding Zimmerman like a horse, how did the bullet go straight into his chest while Zimmerman’s elbow was in direct contact with the ground? If Martin was positioned parallel to Zimmerman at the time of the shooting, how did Zimmerman manage to get the gun between the two sandwiched chests, let alone with enough of a gap to point the gun straight in?
Incidentally, Zimmerman said he made eye contact with three witnesses during the struggle, yet no witness has admitted to that. How observant for a guy to notice that, yet he contradicted himself regarding Martin’s age; someone who was a heck of a lot closer than the nearest witness.
§
On page 86 of the FDLE report, a background interview took place with the person who provided Zimmerman’s firearms safety training course. Zimmerman’s certificate was dated November 7, 2009. I will have a complete article that will describe, in detail, what led up to George’s obsession with buying guns. Yes, it’s about a dog. Until then, there is plenty to discuss, including personal issues regarding his family and a certain ex-fiance. That’s too much to handle in this post, so please feel free to address his temperament and anything else. Certainly, if I’ve missed anything else, I’d be more than happy to learn, but as far as I’m concerned, the only smoking gun, so far, is the one that George Zimmerman held in his hand on February 26, 2012.
Dave Knechel | in Angela Corey, Bernie De la Rionda, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, FBI, FDLE, Fabrique Nationale Herstal, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Frank Taaffe, George Zimmerman, Joe Oliver, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Mark Osterman, Norm Wolfinger, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Seminole County Courthouse, Seminole County Sheriff''s Office, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon Martin, Wendy Dorival, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (103)
I'm surprised at you, Dave, that you would lower yourself to that low level of calling someone a racist just for mentioning Obama's political ploy to win the black vote. Hey. I know a few blacks who are racists, then, and I also am a racist too, by that standard. Who lowered the standard of what a racist is? I thought it was considering one race, your own, to be superior to another's. Oh. Yeah. Obama and his administaration and the DOJ and the Democrat Party lowered it...in this election year...nevermind that we "racists" don't like the color of his ideals (pinko) or that Obama has just as much white in him and that he has been more influenced by his white communist education...I digress...
Ashley, you do bring up good points but here's the thing that I believe ends it for George being in the right. He had two opportunities to address himself to Trayvon but he didn't. One of those times was when Trayvon circled his SUV. The man had a gun, nothing to fear, right? So why the hell didn't he, even with gun cocked and at the ready, while sitting in his SUV, say, Hey, I'm a NW and I was wondering what you were doing here? He obviously did this before to others who were visiting the complex. But this "up to no good" F'n punk" he says nothing to. I believe that is what kills his SYG defense and that that will be the fact that will convict him.
[The fact is, Obama inserted himself, not the other way around. Just what does Obama have to do with this besides nothing? So he spoke about it. That's his problem. Anyone can open their trap, but does that automatically include them into the mix? I opened my trap. I'm white. Is that supposed to mean anything in the scheme of this? No, of course not. This is between Zimmerman and the state of Florida. Everything else is of little to no relevance in the end.]
Sherry, thank you for being so nice.
I see your point. I guess this is where that bus driver Trayvon alledgedly swung on could come into play, showing that perhaps Trayvon had a history of erratic behavior. There are signs all around that complex that neighborhood watch is in effect. Did Trayvon not see these signs at any point? Wouldnt a logical deduction be, hey he must be one of those neighborhood watch dudes, I better just get home? I know logic is pretty lost on this case, lol. I just dont think identifying himself would have stopped Trayvon, the phone witness says Trayvons voice got really low, and Trayvon was actually hiding laying in wait for Zimmerman, AFTER starring him down in the car, I mean, seriously, why did he just not go into the place he was staying?
Ashley, I really don't care whether this or any other case like this makes the national news. That is not my point. My point is that people have no business running around their neighborhoods armed with a gun, chasing after young people as opposed to making a report of suspicious activity and leaving the rest to those who are paid to do what George took upon himself to do. As I recall, George's own family felt it was acceptable for George to assault a Law Enforcement Officer because he didn't know he was a cop. That trained officer knew how to handle the situation, and George did not end up in a body bag. My point is, George created this mess by exiting his car rather than remaining in a safe and secure place. Where in the non-emergency call did the dispatcher ask George to exit his car? I missed that. He asked if George knew where Trayvon was. George did not. How does that translate as a directive to arm himself, get out of the car, and peruse his suspect on foot? Is than honestly what you would do? If you wanted to simply keep an eye out for him, wouldn't you just move your car again to gain another vantage point? Especially if you had just claimed to believe this person was on drugs or something. Give me a break! How about blasting your horn so every house in the neighborhood turned on their lights and came outside to see what the heck was going on? Now, that would definitely flush out a would be criminal. Nope, George, and apparently you, would rather take off on foot in pursuit of a dangerous, drug crazed teenager, in order to live out some fantasy that you could handle this situation without any assistance. Well, if you don't count a loaded gun.
Like I said before, I feel for any teenager who happens upon individuals who think it is proper to end a fist fight with a gun. Now that, is in my opinion, Gang mentality.
LOL! Ashley, you are more black than Obama.
Sorry for the levity attempt on such a serious case. I do wonder about the whole thing with Dee Dee. Why didn't they hear anything or see any commotion going on? Trayvon was out on an errand (and I do believe he was going to make his drank and smoke a blunt but that is of no consequence to him being murdered) supposedly to bring back some Skittles for his soon to be younger stepbrother. Where was this young man? Why didn't he hear anything?
As far as Trayvon going home, I'm with you on that. The timing shows that he had that opportunity. And he could easily have called 911 if he thought his life was in danger. Unfortunately, prior to all of this possibility on Trayvon's part, George had two opportunities (according to his own testimony) to introduce himself to the young man.
Dave about the woman that saw someone running south to north. I'm wondering if it was the 13 year old boy. He was walking his dog right by them when the wrestling was going on and then his dog got off the leash and he ran after it. The witness didn't know if it was an adult or a child 'cos it was too dark.
[It was definitely a woman. She was inside her house, upstairs, and had taken her contact lenses out. She moved from one bedroom to another. It wasn't the boy with his dog. He was outside at the time. That's a completely different witness.]
Sherry, I think the reason that Tracy Martin called the cops was because he found Trayvons weed or blunts on the porch and this really alarmed him because he knew his son and something bad had to have happened for him to leave his weed. But there is no way on earth that Trayvon Martin was scared of George, and if anything, DeeDee heard what really happened and thats why she just shut up. This girl was basically not affected, as her twitter activity for the day she found out and teh day of the funeral, was VERY active and mentioned hardly anything about Travyon. Trayvon initiated the vocal content when he said, You gotta problem, and thenwhen George said no adn started grabbing for his phone, Trayvon said you do now, I really dont think saying, Hi I am George and I just called the cops on you because I saw you off the grass looking into windows would have pacified Trayvon Martin. IF anything, since George was out of his car talking to the operator, its logical to deduct Trayvon actually heard George and was angry because he called the cops, I mean, its going to come down to, and why did he not just run in and make his drink and chill? We dont teach our kids to attack strangers, we teach them to run from them if they can, make noise, etc.
Dave
This was as usual a great blog. I've read some of the comments and the only thing I feel about this whole mess is:
1. GZ is a liar of the first order and a cowardly bully.
2. If he had stayed in his truck as he had been advised TM wouldn't be dead
3. Listen to the tapes of his calls to SZ in code about how much he had,paying bills and transferring money to her and others
4. The talk they had about passports is interesting too. Did they plan on fleeing the country?
JMHO of course
[Thank you, Tommy's Mom. I agree with you on all points, although I haven't heard any of the tapes yet. One thing is certain; that code was meant to hide info from LE since, at the time, those were the only people who would be interested in what they had to say.]
Sherry:
"Where was this young man? Why didn't he hear anything?"
I take it you didn't read the 283/4 (I'm fuzzy eyed from reading it all) document dump? The young man was in the front room of the house (shooting occurred at the back) with his headset on playing video games. When his mum got home he told them TM had gone to the store and not returned. Tracy tried calling him and it went to voice mail. Tracy thought he must've gone over to his cousins house. In the morning he still wasn't back, more phone calls to find him next thing Serino is over showing him a photo of his dead son.
Ashley:
I take it you don't read the document dumps either because TM was 5ft 11, his shoes would make him 6ft or so, however the heels on GZ's shoes look about nearly two inches so you can basically make them 5ft 11 v 5ft 8, but height doesn't matter when you're lying down.
GZ's call to non-emergency ended at 7.13.38 and he had about a 40 second walk from the T (where he said he was when he ended the call) to his car. The 911 call with the shot started at 7.16.11 and that witness said she'd heard them for about 11 seconds before she called. The shot was fired at 7.16.56 so say a minute for the fight. Which takes you back to 7.16. How did GZ not get back to his car in two and a half minutes? What was he doing all that time? We know what TM was doing , he was talking to DD (coincidentally Witness 11 said the same phrase "what are you doing?" as DD and her statement was taken 18 days before anyone had heard of DD so she wasn't influenced by the press) and I don't know if you have teenagers but they stop and start all the time when they're walking and talking on their cell phones. Anyway, you question why TM didn't go home but why do you not question why GZ didn't get back to his car in two and a half minutes?
Thanks for your time.
Thanks, Rebecca. I confess, I have not had time to read everything. But I had not heard that either in the blogosphere. God bless you for repeating info that I should have made time to find out about.
I think I'm so stuck on my conclusion to this case that I'm not as into it as I once was so I am neglecting to read the documents when other more pressing matters are at hand. Again, thanks, Rebecca, and all others who help to inform me on this case.
Why in the world are we expecting a seventeen year old to act like an adult? Ignoring the generation gap in this situation is making an assumption that we all react the same to any given situation, regardless of age.
Darn right if I thought someone was following me, I would hang up and dial 911. However, I seriously doubt the majority of 17 year old males would do the same. That would mean they weren't six foot tall and bullet proof. IMO, Trayvon's reaction to being followed was fairly typical of an adolescent male. They do not want to be perceived as a kid and don't want to feel like a panty waist. Running home to mommy would be the chicken chit thing to do, even if he was frightened. However, I think he moved from frightened to mad once he realized GZ was not going to leave him alone. Again, most teens would. Just ask a few. I don't care if they're black, white, brown or mixed, they would not want some asshole to punk them. And their initial reaction would not be to call the police for help. Just look at all the crap that happens in schools and on social networks with no report to parents or law enforcement. Kids are not adults and do not react the same way adults do. That is precisely why they must depend on adults to make the right decisions and choices. Trayvon Martin should have been able to expect George Zimmerman, and adult male, to conduct himself in a reasonable and responsible manner. Unfortunately, George Zimmerman chose to behave like a teenager and interestingly enough, continues to insist on being treated like one.
BTW, in an earlier post of mine I confused Dee Dee and Tracy's girlfriend, Brandy. I meant Brandy.
Rebecca, I guess I just dont understand why observing someone in front of a home looking in the windows of a residence warrants being beat down. Its not illegal for George to get out of his car, Trayvon had run off and the operator asked what way did he go, personally, I wouldnt have gotten out, but what does that say? We have to fear a teen? He matched the description of young black boys who were breaking into the area, I mean really what is the issue here? I have not seen anything that shows George hunted down Trayvon, there is evidence that Trayvon waited to ambush George, maybe he was sizing him up while he was starring at him, we will never know but to jump to George is lying when he has actual injuries with witness' stating Trayvon was on top, and based on projectory was a bit premature. If Trayvon really swung on a bus driver and O'Mara gets this person to court, its just over for the State as it shows Trayvon was prone to aggression for no good reason, I mean seriously what could the bus driver really have done to warrant that? I also have eyes, and can look at that photo of Trayvon and his family, I can tell he was tall, but in hindsite it does not matter.
Hey Snoopy:
Actually, one doesn't need eyes in the back of their head to see someone coming up to them from behind-- peripheral vision, your sense of hearing and awareness of your surroundings (and some street smarts and common sense) can alert you to someone approaching. My earlier post was simply pointing out that for someone that has made statements that would lead you to believe he is hyper-aware of things going on around him (in the middle of a fight for his life, to boot), that someone sneaking up on him and punching him just doesn't pass the smell-test w/ me. I will add that I lived with a pathological liar fo about 3 years, so his story struck me as being a little fantastical.
Also, I think it is a bit of a stretch to make any accusations about whether or not Trayvon had weed and left it on the porch. And I most definitely take exception to accusing his father of a crime. That is WAY out of bounds. I don't care what has been speculated or rumored on some other blog. Trayvons parents have lost their child. I don't care what race they are and I don't care if he smoked weed. There is absolutely no proof he was drinking or planning to drink anything, so that is a bit over the top as well. Mr. Martin reported his child missing, plain and simple. Just like any parent would do. How dare anyone make the assertion that he only worried about his missing child after discovering he hadmleft his precious weed behind! I will refrain from typing exactly what I am thinking right now. Dave would ban me from his blog.
I am wondering who the hell you think you are that you feel comfortable with doubting the love of a father for his son.
I find this blunt/weed crap disturbing. This is how nasty rumors get started and I will not allow that to happen on my blog. Those are private opinions and let's keep them that way, please.
Dave, with all respect, he had weed in his system at the time of death, so its not really a rumor, and he was suspended from school after being found with a baggie that had residue in it, I mean why is the truth about this case not allowed and called rumor?
[The amount of THC in his system was so minuscule, it's safe to say he hadn't smoked any that day. That's a fact. How you can take that information and turn it into blunts and his father finding his stash is beyond me. On one hand, you have the audacity to call his father a gang member and on the other, you say he's angry with his son for having dope. You are a very confused person, and I will say this one more time; it's okay to speculate about the incident, but if you bring wild assumptions into the fold; ones that offer no truth whatsoever and are solely based on your own biased opinions, I will not allow them to stand. This is not to single you out, either. This is for everyone. I certainly wouldn't allow anyone to say things like that about George or anyone else in his entourage. The police never tested his blood that night or the next day. Can I safely say he was high on heroin? No, of course not, and I wouldn't.]
Ashley, does shouting make you feel better. You might want to check your facts. The my space page you are writing about belonged to an entirely different Trayvon Martin. That has already been clearly established. I am guessing you failed to view the pages yourself to verify. I did. They aren't the same person. Don't even look alike. Hey, I bet if you took a look, you would find there are others who share your name as well. I imagine a few might be offended if someone mistook them for you, were your real name splashed all over the news for some reason.
Please, prove to me that Mr. Martin is a gang member. You might also want to provide that valuable information to the gang task force in Seminole County. I'm sure they welcome tips.
Do I want gang members to own guns. Not anymore than I want people like George Zimmerman to own them. But, like it or not, as long as they have a clean record, they have as much right as you or me. Tell me something, if Trayvon was a proud member of the Crips, why wasn't he flashing the proper colors? You do know about the various gang colors and signs don't you? It's good information to know. The Crips sport a lovely shade of blue. Black is reserved for yet another gang, and Taryvon, if a gang member would have been in deep chit if caught wearing the wrong color. Not to mention his father, who is apparently dissing his affiliation by failing to proudly proclaim his membership through the proper attire or by at least throwing a sign from time to time. LOL I guess he just likes to live dangerously. Not only does he risk being under a verbal assault by racist groups, but he is inviting a physical assault by fellow gang members as well. Humm. Such a brave man he is.
Again, show me proof that Mr. Martin is a gang member. Is he listed on some official FBI, local LE or homeland security watch list? Please provide me with a copy of the document. You obviously know little if anything about gangs. Otherwise, you and your rumor spreading cohorts would be a bit more concrete in your assertions. You really need to do a bit more homework if you expect to be taken seriously.
Dave, feel free to delete the link, but there are pics of Tracy with his gang brothers, so I dont know why you are saying I am making this stuff up. I'm not. And they found something on the porch that indicated Trayvon was there, its in earlier interviews.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/14/update-33-trayvon-martin-shooting-the-bloom-is-off-the-ruse-the-gang-connections/
[Here's the problem I have with that, Ashley. Suppose Tracy WAS part of a gang, what does that have to do with Trayvon and George Zimmerman? I was young once and I have a few things in my past, too, but does that make me some kind of punk today? There's been nothing offered by anyone to date, including George's defense, that has anything to do with what that bigoted site of yours is promoting. Why are you part of the cult problem? Why are you digging under every rock searching for negative stuff on Trayvon and his entire family, plus friends? Who's digging into George's mother's old boyfriends? How about his father? Perhaps they had premarital sex. Shocking! Suppose his father cheated on his mother. Should that have a bearing on what George did that night? Blame it on his father? What's wrong with you? You are making up excuses for George. You enable people like him. Not only that, but you seem to want to rid the world of Trayvon and his ilk. Why? Why this obsession with George?]
Whew!! It's hot in here today.
Sempre Invictus--I love you!
FAIR (Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting) - George Zimmerman Was Never Violent—if You Don’t Count Domestic Violence…
Quote:
No, he's not prone to violence–except, as we learn after four paragraphs about what a great guy he is, that time that he slapped his ex-girlfriend:
And he doesn't show signs of prejudice–aside from that "MySpace page Mr. Zimmerman once kept where he went on a rant about the Mexicans in his old Virginia neighborhood, saying they would mess with cars and pull knives."
End of Quote
This is a direct link to the article he is discussing:
More Records Released in Trayvon Martin Case
The above is a very in-depth summation of the most recent document release—2nd only to Dave’s, of course! ; - )
However, I do agree with what the author of the ‘FAIR’ write-up had to say. Imho
Contrary to popular belief I am a 17 year old. Ashley you keep saying Trayvon had been looking in windows. Dispatcher asked: Ok, he's just walking around area. Mr. Zimmerman: looking at ALL the houses. NO where did he say, looking in windows. Had Mr. Zimmerman told that Police would have stepped it up. When Mr. Zimmerman called the police he told dispatcher Trayvon was by clubhouse. 4 questions later he said He's running. He did not run from the T in sidewalk, Trayvon was by the clubhouse.
You refer to Trayvon like he is a thug. Why? The hoodie? I wear them. His Tattoos? Trayvon's tattoos had his great grandmother, grandmother and mother's name. Not very thuggish. The bus driver? Do you have proof that took place? Schools have zero tolerance for violence he would have been expelled. You keep talking about his school records being sealed, not sure why they would have to seal them. Trayvon is a minor, school records are not freely given out without a written consent.
When Obama said Trayvon could be his son, he meant because he was black. Nothing more nothing less. Many other blacks have said the same thing. It is sad black parents have to warn their children what to do when approached on the street. Everyday Teachers, politicians and other educated and non-educated adults are arrested for molesting children. If some strange man followed me in a car, and then chased me I would have fought for my life too. Teens are not happy about what happened to one of us, we are the future. You can bet things will change when we write the laws. Thank God teens are not as racial as adults. Had Trayvon been a white kid, I would bet my life it would have been National within 2 days. And by the way I am white.
If Mr. Zimmerman is afraid of his own shadow he should have stayed in his locked car. I do not believe for a second he was screaming help. That does not make sense. He gets punched in the nose and a gun is pulled on Trayvon and what Trayvon's like cool?? That makes no sense. If someone pulled a gun on any of you, you do not think you would scream like a girl?
Ashley with all due respect had Mr. Zimmerman been drug tested, he would have tested positive for Meth.
[You said it quite well, Michelle. Thank you for that!]
Newbie and Dave: Would it be a lucky break that he was allowed to keep his gun—or a good reason for a separate investigation?
Or would this point to Zimmerman’s connections, and when they became apparent?
I say thank-you to Rev. Sharpton and the many others who stood beside Trayvon’s parents—because without them they would have had to bury their son and watch his killer walk free.
moo
I'm glad Sharpton got involved, too. Normally, I wouldn't say that, but this one needed attention.
I'm not sure I know what you mean about the gun issue. He can't own one now, but it was legal when he bought the 5.7]
I think Vicky said it quite succinctly a while back-one has to wonder why the need to dredge up every negative thing one can find on a dead boy, let me add, and now his family. And none of this matters a hill of beans unless GZ knew this prior to shooting dead that boy. He didn't know these things and if O Mara brings them up it will show me that he is a cad wanting to win at any costs. This stuff is not going to be brought up in court-it will waste the court's time and it is not relevent to the case because, like I said, GZ had none of this knowledge about Trayvon on that fateful night. O Mara will not be able to tie in this info with GZ's defense.
JMO, Tracy Martin may have been a former member of the Crips. I don't believe he is trying to hide it by tattooing over it with praying hands but, moreso that he is removing from his sight any vestiges of his old life-that's what one does when they come to Christ Jesus, which he has. Yeah, it looks suspicious since he only recently did this. But, maybe it was Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson that suggested he tattoo over it. We don't know and it shouldn't matter. What matters is that night and only that which pertains to the fatal shooting of Trayvon.
Wonderful, wonderful comment, Michelle.
I would like to add that there is no proof that Trayvon circled Zimmerman's truck. In some statements he says he did, and then in others he omits this supposed fact.
We might also keep in mind that the surveillance videos, (though much discredited), indicate a strong indication that George began his watch on Trayvon a fair amount of time before he called the non-emergency number.
Now, you can call this smoke and mirrors if you like--but, at least there is some basis for my thoughts.
The significance that I think this has is that it shows why Trayvon became so 'quickly' in tune to being 'watched'--because it was going on for a while before Zimmerman's initial call.
And regarding Dee Dee. I have read where she was 16 years old and also that she is 14 years old. Either way, that is young. She was greatly traumatized that night, and in the coming days and nights. I even read where she had to go to the hospital.
She most likely only knew Trayvon's cell number and didn't know who else to call or what to do. And I find it quite likely that she didn't know who she should trust.
All of the above are just my thoughts, they could be as wrong as all get out.
Dave~~I thought for sure that the PD confiscated Z gun at the scene of the crime. I wonder if the one who wrote the report got their words mixed up. The officer who accompanied Z to SPD had the gun in his possession (evidence) and then put it in the gun box. Z pointed out that he was armed at the scene. He would have been disarmed before the cuffs were placed on him. No law officer would allow a suspect into the back of their patrol car armed.
Great comments in here today from both sides. I do hope we can put race and politics on the back burner, once and for all. JMO
PS...heat wave in N.S. and boomers approacing so maybe some rain will cool us down.
[That's what I would think, too, Snoopy, but there it was, in black & white. Perhaps the clip and ammo were removed and the harmless gun was handed back to him for the time being. I just don't know, but still, in his possession? That's a huge mistake if true.
I don't want race and politics discussed here. There are plenty of political blogs and race just goes without saying.]
Michelle, Obama saying that about Trayvon was a political move because Florida is a swing state. Why didn't he say that about other young black boys who have been shot dead by whites in states that he clearly owns? That's in the political arena anyways, not in the substance of this case and the discussion of this blogpost. I only brought it up because Dave wanted to call Ashley a racist for bringing it up.
I think it matters that Trayvon circled his SUV, and even if it is a lie told by GZ, it is one that, imo, will nail his butt as guilty and indefensible in his shooting dead Trayvon. That was the first opportunity for GZ to introduce himself. Wouldn't it be something that GZ gets bit in the butt by his own lie and has to spend 25 years in prison for having hung his own self?
If O Mara says that clubhouse video surveillance shows Trayvon then he will have to explain the headlights...
Sherry I don't know why. Maybe because this is the only case that went National because a police department did not investigate thoroughly. Mr. Zimmerman went to the police station with a gun in his waste band? Mr. Zimmerman did not take a drug or breathalyzer test. Maybe he did it to let Florida know ALL eyes are on them. Do your job. I do not believe it to be political. Nor do I wish to talk about politics because No offense but neither party is working for us. They have sat on their butts and argued. Not setting good examples. Our country is a mess and adults cannot work together.
But this about Trayvon, not politics. I only brought it up because as a teen we do not see things like you do. Mr. Romney said what about Trayvon, crickets. Teenagers now think Republicans do not care about us. Sometimes it is better to say something rather than nothing.
This is my last comment about this. When President Obama called K. West a jackass for interrupting Taylor Swifts acceptance speech- where was the outrage? When Obama told black men to be better fathers and stop whining -where was the outrage? I do not know enough about politics to bring them up. Ashley brought up Obama. I only gave my perspective as a teen. It took Obama a week to comment, Republicans even longer. We want to know we matter. Black, white or brown. We are citizens or do we not count?
I do not have any idea if Mr. Zimmerman is racist. It seems that way, but I won't call him a racist because I do not know. These are issues that should not be brought up. Adults did it because it took A. Sharpton to get this National. When adults can shoot teenagers that are not armed dead, well that is a problem. It should be discussed. But I do not want to talk politics because it makes me very uncomfortable.
I understand, Michelle. Someone once said that if young people are not liberal in their thinking then they are not compassionate souls. You are a compassionate soul. Some adults retain that compassion and are called liberals. Other adults grow into common sense thinking and are called conservatives. Both care about the same things but neither can agree on how to solve those things apart from each side compromising. These days, no one wants to bend for the sake of society as a whole.
Now, I promise not to ever mention politics or racism on this post even if it meanns I have to sit on my hands! :-)
Even though George Zimmerman’s defense team wants Judge Kenneth Lester to step aside, it still didn’t stop him from releasing 145 additional phone calls Zimmerman made from the Seminole County jail to the public, as well as the statement of a witness who says he doesn't like black people.
According to the Orlando Sentinel, "Witness 9" said in one of her two statements that, "I know George, and I know that he does not like black people," she said, speaking to a Sanford police investigator-
"He would start something. He's a very confrontational person. It's in his blood. Let's just say that."
She went on to describe Zimmerman and his family as-
"just mean and open about it, and I don't know what he's capable of, but I do know things that he's done to me that I would never, I would never talk to him about ever again."
Source
Dave~~re the above, I thought if the phone calls were to be introduced into evidence ( having contained info pert to the case) then they would be released to the public. We have 151 phone calls here in total and I cannot see the media paying for us to hear, " Hi you cute little thing. How's is mommy's little pussy cat today? Did my baby have enough warm water to get a shower?" A little frivolous don't you think?
As to Witness #9, who is leaking information as to what she stated in her testimony??
Sherry: You said: Some adults retain that compassion and are called liberals. Other adults grow into common sense thinking and are called conservatives.
LOL I choked on my coffee over that!
I don't dare confess what side I'm on--but I bet you can guess. ⎝ᄽ⏝⏠⎠
(Sorry, Dave. I'll obey the rules now.)
Thanks Sherry! I think I am more Conservative than Liberal. That is why Romney waiting upset me. I also think Obama's comments were taken out of context. More than Floridians are upset about the delay in prosecution therefore it opens up many other states.
My older sister has no common sense. Drives me crazy.
I think Mr. Zimmerman wants a new Judge because Judge Lester knows he is dishonest. How many times can he ask for a new Judge? Are all the Judges Felony qualified? Some of the courts here are for traffic, restraining/family matters, others are for misdemeanors and then felony courts. Hope you get what I mean.
Snoopy: You make a very interesting point about Witness 9 and the calls.
I guess we can now be positive that Witness 9 is not Mr. Zimmerman’s former girlfriend/fiancee. (Page 140)
The discovery coming Monday around 11:00 am will have that, if I’m reading things correctly. It could be interesting.
(I think all we know about Witness 9, we've known for a long time. That was one of the big reveals of the last document dump, [lol]--that the the ex wasn't #9. So, no 'new' leaks anyway. Maybe?)
The role or a judge is not to decide who is guilty or innocent, that is left up to a jury and I believe that Z opted for a jury trial. If Z does plea and throw himself on the mercy of the court, then the sitting judge decides the penalty.
I found Judge Lester could have summed up things nicely in a 2 to 3 page bond Order in lieu of an eight page rant. O'Mara was well within his rights to file a motion to have Lester step down. If Judge Lester decides to stay on, Mark will appeal. I will reiterate, I wish to hell that judges were appointed rather than being elected.
Who knows, maybe Lester wants out because even he does not want any backlash if he makes the wrong or right decisions and cannot satisfy the left or right, gunowners or whatever ...
Dave~~I hope your new post will be up soon!!
Well, as Mark NeJame said in his interview last night--the judge has a 'presumtion of correctness'. This isn't quite at trial yet.
Here is a link to yet another view of why Mr. O'Mara may have done what he did.
Axiom Amnesia – O’Mara Files Motion To Disqualify Judge Lester In Zimmerman Trial
Quoted and Snipped:
(3rd Paragraph) The true reason Mark O’Mara filed this motion was over Witness 9 in this case, furthermore an additional 145 calls between Shellie Zimmerman and her husband after his initial arrest. Witness 9′s anonymous call to Sanford Police paints Zimmerman, and the Zimmerman family, as racist and having hostilities toward Blacks.
End of Quote
Nan11~~as to the ex-fiancée's testimony, I found it rather tame. Z chews gum, she smacks him in the chops, the ex chews gum, he smack her. I would ask if she ended up with a fat lip requiring stitches. Did Z hold cold compresses to her swollen lip, give them a little peck and apologize?
Now they have separated and Z wants to go over to talk to her... his g/mother is not feeling well or some such thing. The ex agreed so was she scared of Z at that time? ... it was her decision to make. Z wants to stay the nite as his testosterone has kicked in, the ex says no way...Z wants to sleep on the couch... another uh uh.. then the scuffle over the cell phone and Fido the pitt bull nips Z in the face... Does anyone really think that this frivolous stuff will sway a jury into believing Z is some sort of woman abuser?
The ex's testimony just confirmed that Z was not that R word and loved little kids...expecially his neighbors child. It also showed that Z did go to counselling to help salvage the relationship between he and the ex.
Dave said:
I'm not sure I know what you mean about the gun issue. He can't own one now, but it was legal when he bought the 5.7
Sorry, I was rambling on about why they would have let Zimmerman keep his gun after he shot Travyon; (and when he had first arrived at the police station that night.)
Even in my earlier comment about the woman who saw George in a tan t-shirt--she said they were frisking him. So, I guess, they can't deny knowing that he had it on him.
I hope you are correct and they at least removed the bullets.
It's that type of handling of things early in this case that really makes me raise my eyebrows--and I do believe that that is where the 'politics' enter.
I want to 'respect your house', Dave. I do believe you to be very lenient--much to my distress sometimes. ; - )
I'm going to try to be more like Sherry and sit on my hands.
Nan11~~the FBI interviewed 30 different people. Their conclusion, no R involved. Now when you put all those calls up against one #9 witness call... what will a jury think? Maybe witness #9 has some tangible proof to back up her statements.
Axiom Amnesia is stating the following as a fact....The true reason Mark O’Mara filed this motion was over Witness 9 in this case,
This falls under speculation, assumption and/or opinion and it is not fact unless the defense stated it publically or it is documented by the defense.
One other thing, did Witness #9 identify herself as Anonymous when she first called SPD or did she give her name and request it to be withheld? If it was not the latter, her testimony is as good as garbage.
Adderall is not meth but I guess its ok to assume George had a meth lab and just ignore the obvious signs of drug use by the small child, who was found with a lighter on him, as well. Oh. and George was not on active patrol, he was going to the store, so where does it say that if you are involved in the neighborhood watch, you lose your right to bear arms at any time? Anyone got a link to that?
Nan11~~Zimmerman's gun was taken into evidence on the evening of Feb 26th. He did not have to relinquish his concealed carry permit. He was not charged with any crime at that time. He was within his rights to purchase another gun since he still had the cc permit and was not charged with any crime.
Once he was charged with 2nd degree murder, he was not allowed to be in the possession of any firearms. When Z purchased the second weapon ( which was prior to being charged with anything) he was considered to be a free man in the eyes of the law. Therefore, he was within his legal rights to own the second gun.
Ashley actually it is. My Mom takes it and whenever she is drug tested, she test positive for Meth.
I am sure it is normal to ask for a new judge. I just asked how many times you could do that. Jeez. I also think O'Mara is doing his job. With a lying client he is working overtime.
New post is up. I do know a thing or two about recusals.
Ashley, give a little listen to what Curtis says... he is a reputable Guardian Angel... it is just a short clip.
Curtis Sliwa on what Zimmerman did wrong
nan11, {snicker} Did I dogtrack to the right with my definition? Darn it! Unbiased opinion is a tough one for me to do! lol!
Hello Dave, you are absolutely right about him showing no regard for human life. The position of the hands caught my attention, because they were found by the police underneath his body. Yet he stated that he spread them away from his body. Also in the reenactment video, while parked at the clubhouse, he mentions the name of the street that he couldn't remember. Twin trees lane. Then he said during the walk through, for the police to meet him at his truck, that was parked next to the clubhouse. Listening to all the versions and lies this man tells gives me a headache.
[I'm glad you see through his lies, too, Joanna. This man could be convicted of lying and be sentenced to life in prison for it if there were such a law. That's how good (and bad) he is at it. You know, I hadn't given it much thought about what he said during the reenactment - that he spread Trayvon's arms out, yet they were found under his body. Another lie! This is what, I hope, sinks him. Thank you.]
Dave the FHN57 pistol is listed as excellent choice for self protection and target shooting with light recoil. I have found nothing saying its a COP KILLER. another minor detail is the three 20 round mags hold 60 bullets not 80. Do you think you need to exaggerate things to get your point across?
[Hi, Cliff - I can't say where the original link was where I read "cop killer," but I did find this quote:
"Even more recently, the pistol was allegedly used by US Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan when he opened fire on personnel at Fort Hood in Texas. Again, the pistol was called a 'high-caliber cop-killer' and even the Austin American Statesmen said that 'One military expert said it was a weapon that no doctor — not even a military one — would normally carry.' The newspaper was unable to provide a source for the comment, and did not have an exact quote." - from http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=769
I didn't just make it up, I assure you.
My interpretation of the Zimmerman's report was that the weapon had a clip in it, plus the additional three. The report actually does say the gun and three magazines were confiscated. However, 60 or 80, I'm sure he had enough ammo to do some serious damage. My intent was not to exaggerate. Thanks for pointing this out.]