Bond, Revoke Bond
Tuesday, June 5, 2012 at 7:30AM Call me old fashioned or set in my ways or something, but I got used to the courtrooms run by Orange County judges Stan Strickland and Belvin Perry, Jr. By that, I mean, when we went to the Casey Anthony hearings, chances were good that the honorables would have been inclined to rule on new motions — ones presented that day — at a later date, giving the prosecution and defense (and us) time to ingest and digest the gist of what had just been presented. In other words, the judges routinely gave the opposing side an opportunity to work up a legal response to be argued at a subsequent hearing.
Don’t get me wrong. In no way am I questioning the manner in which Seminole County judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr. (yes, another junior) runs his courtroom. As a matter of fact, I sensed from the start that this was a no nonsense judge; one who knows the law and how to interpret and implement it. Fair and firm… that’s what I’d call him. Balanced, too, but while attending the hearing last Friday, I never expected to hear a motion that had been filed a mere two hours earlier, followed by an immediate decision from the judge. Where did that come from, and why didn’t Mark O’Mara, George Zimmerman’s lead defense attorney, protest? Well, there’s more to the story, but first, the matter at hand. While the ending may have shocked us, it wasn’t the reason why we were there to begin with.
The hearing was to argue for and against releasing information pursuant to Florida’s rules of discovery, otherwise known as the Sunshine Law. The state said that the names of witnesses should be kept out of public view for their own protection. The defense agreed, and added that things should be kept at a slow pace for now. There’s no reason to release the information at the moment because there are a lot of people to interview further. This will take time.
The media wants everything made public because that’s the law, argued Orlando Sentinel attorney Rachel Fugate in response, and, eventually, the names will be made public anyway. Why not now? So far, she said, the state and defense haven’t shown good cause why any information should remain behind closed doors, and to be honest, it all depends on which way you look at things. Here, the crux of the matter goes well beyond protecting innocent witnesses, unlike the Casey Anthony case, which she compared it to. Casey never admitted that she killed anyone. George did, and that’s part of the problem, aside from race and outrage being major factors. Most of the public agreed with the prosecution in State v. Casey Anthony. Here, it’s deeply split.
Aside from race, the state contends that George Zimmerman’s statements to investigators add up to a confession, and because of that, they are exempt from disclosure. Of course, the defense disagrees. Yes, the defendant admitted he shot and killed the victim, but it was not a murder. It was in self-defense.
Judge Lester called it a matter of what’s inculpatory and what’s exculpatory. One says it’s a fish; the other says it’s a fowl, he added. Inculpatory is evidence that can establish a defendant’s guilt, while exculpatory is evidence that tends to clear a defendant of guilt.
In the end, the judge decided to follow the law and release the discovery documents, but not without poring over them, piecemeal, in camera, and redacted, which means he will most likely censor some of what’s released, like in the first document dump. And just like Judge Perry, Judge Lester reminded the attorneys that this will be no trial by ambush! What you see is what you get.
Incidentally, defense attorney Mark O’Mara said he expects to see a new round of discovery by Monday or Tuesday, so keep your eyes open, folks.
§
When Judge Lester abruptly revoked George Zimmerman’s bond on Friday, it caught me off guard. Like I said at the beginning of this post, I pretty much thought the court would allow time for the defense to prepare. After all, the motion was filed that morning. But I missed something along the way.
At the April 27 hearing to discuss the motions filed by media attorneys, O’Mara stated that his client had misinformed the court about his financial standing at the bond hearing held a week earlier, on April 20. (This signaled the prosecution to go on the offense and dig up some damning information.) While George sat silent in the courtroom, his wife Shellie, out of camera view, lied under oath about their financial situation. He was fully aware of what she was saying and doing. Instead of being flat broke like she testified, he had amassed a small fortune in excess of $135,000, give or take a few truckloads of chicken feed.
That’s not all. There was a problem with the passport — or passports — George held. At the bond hearing, he surrendered his U.S. passport and “tendered it to the court.” It was due to expire in May anyway. So far, so good, except that he failed to inform the court that he held another passport. It seems the first one was lost and he had applied for a replacement in 2004. Passports are good for ten years, so that means the new one is still good for another two years. Meanwhile, the old one resurfaced and that’s the one he turned over. While there is nothing illegal about it, the state had every right to cry foul. George is, after all, a defendant in a murder case, and the state takes EVERYTHING seriously. So does his team of defense attorneys.
And then there’s the judge.
While Judge Lester overlooked George’s indiscretion concerning the passport, he may have done so because of George’s overt lies concerning his finances. Obviously, that was the case in court last Friday, and because defense counsel had previously mentioned the money issue back on April 27, it was no real surprise when the state smacked George with its MOTION TO REVOKE BOND that day.
Did the defense see it coming? I don’t really know, but I will say this. Upon entering the courthouse, you have to pass through a security screen which includes removing your shoes. When you get to the 5th floor courtroom, you must pass through another security checkpoint before entering. As I was placing my personal items back in my pockets, Mark O’Mara came upon me. We spoke briefly. I told him how polite and respectful he was to me when Bill Sheaffer introduced us during the Anthony trial. Mark, if you recall, was hired as a legal consultant for WKMG. If you think back, you may remember Mark NeJame was also with the CBS affiliate. Anyway, whenever O’Mara and I saw each other again during the trial, we always exchanged greetings. He’s a real gentleman. This time, I did wish him the best in the courtroom and he didn’t seem preoccupied with anything that may have been coming down the pike. After the hearing, I spoke to him again, and he agreed when I said it wasn’t a good day.
“No, it wasn’t,” he admitted.
If I had to take an educated guess, I would say that the defense team did not expect this broadside from prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda, and to be honest, I don’t think it was the motion itself as much as it was De la Rionda’s blow-by-blow vocal delivery and the judge’s abrupt decision to revoke bond. It was a veritable wham-bam-thank-you-ma’am, slam dunk, bada-bing sorta thing.
Here’s the bottom line. George Zimmerman lied. While you may not have heard his own voice doing the lying, he did so through his legal counsel and through the testimony of his wife, in sickness and in health; through good and through bad. And the bad part about it was that he manipulated his attorneys and his spouse. That, in my opinion, is what really perturbed the judge the most. And lying to the court, of course. It’s a cold day in hell when you can pull the wool over a judge’s eyes, let alone get a chuckle out of him for trying.
While he sat in the Seminole County jail awaiting his bond hearing, George played his sudden fortune like a Wall Street pro, only he did it in code, assuming the law would never understand a word of it. Well, George, those plastic decoder rings you used to get in cereal and Cracker Jack boxes as a kid were invented a long, long time ago, before Dick Tracy, and it doesn’t take much of a brainiac to figure out that $135 = $135,000 in code-speak. Duh. It’s stuff like this that truly makes me wonder if George actually thinks of himself as some sort of comic book superhero who’s above the law. It’s not Superman… it’s… it’s Zimmerman!
Despite George’s immature attempt at deception, I’m going to go out on a limb and take a stab at how the judge will respond to a second bond motion filed by the defense requesting his release. Sure, it will be granted, but the judge is out of town this week, so George will have to sit and stew for awhile. God knows, he earned it. Of course, when the hearing is eventually held, he will kiss a good chunk that money in limbo good bye. Bond should be set to the tune of $1,000,000 if you ask me, which, when decoded, translates into a $100,000 down payment; still a mere pittance to a guy like him and his loyal minions, but a huge slice of the pie when it comes to the not so small matter of mounting legal fees.
[Since this writing, the defense team has decided against filing a new motion for a bond hearing at this time. See: Update For Motion On Bond]
Until the hearing comes, George and his defense team will need to do some serious head banging. He profoundly impacted his credibility with the judge. To those who disagree, listen to O’Mara’s own words. “There is a credibility question that now needs to be rehabilitated by explaining in a way what they were thinking, when they did what they did, and we’ll address it… I think that explanation or apology, if it is, should go directly to the person who deserves it. In this case, that is Judge Lester.” (See: George Zimmerman returns to Seminole County Jail)
Take a look, too, at what the Orlando Sentinel put together from their own reporting and research. This is something a jury will not ignore.
- The night he shot Trayvon Martin to death, police say Zimmerman told them his record was squeaky-clean. In fact, he had been charged in 2005 with resisting arrest without violence during an altercation with a state alcohol officer. Zimmerman wound up in a pretrial-diversion program, a scaled-down version of probation offered to nonviolent first-time offenders.
- When he was booked into the Seminole County Jail on April 23, he told the booking officer that he never had been in a pretrial-diversion program before, documents show.
- At his April 20 bond hearing, while making a surprise apology to Trayvon’s family, Zimmerman said he didn’t realize Trayvon was so young. In his call to police moments before the shooting, however, he described Trayvon — who was 17 — as in his “late teens.”
These things, plus the money deception, will not bode well for the defense. The judge will give George an opportunity to explain himself, but what does O’Mara think? “My understanding was that Judge Lester seemed to indicate that he wanted testimony. That is a very complex decision to make about what effect that would have, not only at the hearing itself, but any future testimony, so we haven’t made that decision yet.”
I don’t think I’m even close to going out on a limb when I say that George can kiss the old stand your ground defense good bye. Since it will be Judge Lester’s decision to make, wasn’t it really stupid of George to lie to him, of all people? Wasn’t that a blatant lack of common sense and honesty? Or was it stupidity? Couldn’t the night of February 26 have been the same thing? A blatant lack of common sense and honesty?
Because I am so sure this case will go to trial unless a plea deal is made — which I strongly doubt, George is going to have to do something to regain his credibility, but I don’t know what. His defense team is doing its best at damage control, but how much good will it do?
From the George Zimmerman Legal Defense Website, Details Regarding The Request For A Second Bond Hearing For George Zimmerman:
(Edited for content)
While Mr. Zimmerman acknowledges that he allowed his financial situation to be misstated in court, the defense will emphasize that in all other regards, Mr. Zimmerman has been forthright and cooperative. He gave several voluntary statements to the police, re-enacted the events for them, gave voice exemplars for comparison and stayed in ongoing contact with the Department of Law Enforcement during his initial stage of being in hiding. He has twice surrendered himself to law enforcement when asked to do so, and this should demonstrate that Mr. Zimmerman is not a flight risk. He has also complied with all conditions of his release, including curfew, keeping in touch with his supervising officers, and maintaining his GPS monitoring, without violation.
Why did George stay “in ongoing contact with the Department of Law Enforcement” when he first went into hiding? Because he thought of himself as one of them? A cop’s cop? Among his peers? The first thing a defense attorney worth his weight in salt would say to a new client is to shut up. That’s why this statement is meaningless. Of course it was his initial contact because, on advice of counsel, he stopped talking after that.
He has twice surrendered himself to law enforcement when asked to do so, and this should demonstrate that Mr. Zimmerman is not a flight risk. He has also complied with all conditions of his release, including curfew, keeping in touch with his supervising officers, and maintaining his GPS monitoring, without violation.
This, too, goes without saying. Isn’t that a given? This is what he was supposed to do, and most people comply with the law. Besides, once the cash was out of his hands, where was he supposed to hide? With what? Once the defense learned of the money, it was transferred into a trust fund where George couldn’t touch it. Neither could his wife.
The audio recordings of Mr. Zimmerman’s phone conversations while in jail make it clear that Mr. Zimmerman knew a significant sum had been raised by his original fundraising website. We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion. The gravity of this mistake has been distinctly illustrated, and Mr. Zimmerman understands that this mistake has undermined his credibility, which he will have to work to repair.
“We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion.” This is damage control at its finest. This is why exemplary defense counsel deserves to make the big bucks, and I’ve got to hand it to Mr. O’Mara, who I totally respect and admire. That sentence says it all, but it’s a classic contortion of relativity and relevance. It’s pointing the finger one way while speaking in another direction. Why? While focusing on George’s innate fear, mistrust and confusion, which we can all relate to, its actual intent is to confuse us and take the heat off him.
If George was really fearful, mistrusting and confused, why did he lie to the court? If he did nothing wrong, what was he fearful of there, of all places? The court was the first place he should have trusted. After all, the truth shall set him free. Right?
Dave Knechel | in 18th Circuit Court, Bernie De la Rionda, Bill Sheaffer, Casey Anthony, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, FDLE, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Florida’s Government in the Sunshine, George Zimmerman, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Judge Stan Strickland, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark NeJame, Mark O'Mara, Motion in Limine, Orlando Sentinel, Rachel Fugate, Seminole County, Seminole County Courthouse, Seminole County Jail, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, Sunshine Law, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon Martin, WKMG, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (140)
Porky3100 ~~I hear the words, "in all fairness, let's be fair....etc" and they are directed to me.
Hey, how much more fair can I get... even the title of my blog is Mainstreamfair?
Snoopy, you will note that I said "It was my understanding". The information came from a source who was aware of it. But I agree that it is best to not start rumors absolutely. I am glad that you acknowledge that both sides are receiving these threats. Yes there are some very sick people walking among us. Tragic indeed.
"Porky3100 ~~I hear the words, "in all fairness, let's be fair....etc" and they are directed to me.
Hey, how much more fair can I get... even the title of my blog is Mainstreamfair?"
Not true at all Snoopy and lets not get caught up in semantics please. When I say in all fairness I always speak to the argument, not the person.
Example. in all fairness to the threat claim made by the defense-- I am aware that a threat was also made against the Judge. See? Nothing Snoopy in there.
Here is the scoop on the upcoming bond hearing along with a video of O'Mara. I notice Bob Kealing snuck in a remark about Angela Corey.... ohhhh, she is beginning to steal a bit of the limelight...
From WESH
Reading O'Mara's comments gives be the feeling that the defense is preparing to file a motion reminiscent of the CA trial. I fully expect to see a motion for recusal to occur some time following the bail hearing if things don't go well for GZ. Anyone want to make a bet?
The idea that there are people out there making threats to any of the parties involved in this case, turns my stomach. Especially those made against those charged with making certain laws are upheld and the rights of individuals accused with a crime are protected. However, I am certain that this is not the first nor the last time threats have been made against people involved in civil or legal matters. The world is filled with nut buckets who get their jollies out of making terroristic threats. Fortunately, the majority are all talk and no action. And, if they are serious about their threats, there is little that can be done to prevent them form following through if they can't be identified in advance. and if there is someone who is he'll bent on killing GZ he won't be safe in or out of prison. I honestly believe that a lot of that retoric has quieted down since GZ was charged.
I would like to point out that GZ decided to take the law into his own hands, so he should feel some level of empathy for others who would consider doing the same.
There ARE sick people out there and George Zimmerman did ignore a statement not to follow. One might say the dispatcher had no authority to stop him but this dispatcher was more in a position of authority than George Zimmerman. GZ He did take the law into his own hands when passing HIS judgement on Trayvon Martin from the time he started following, ending it by making Trayvon dead!! George Zimmerman may not be considered "sick" but he did indeed, WITHOUT HESITATION, "take the law into his own hands." imo
A link to this article was posted on another blog. It is a very interesting read, and fully supports the majority of my misgivings aboit the STG law.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133
Couple comments. Amazing post Dave!
1)as far as I am concerned the people that keep talking about the dispatcher not having authority I do agree. But if they were lying on the sidewalk needing CPR you can bet they are going to want someone listen to that dispatcher.
2) Dave you linked I believe the O.S. to this post. Someone cannot remember who said in their opinion they thought TM never beat GZ's head on the sidewalk. Apparently in the crime scene photos there was a picture of a broken sprinkler in the grass near TM's body. The person leaving the comment suggested that could be why his head had injuries.
Sempre I believe you said something about blood on the flash light I think. Maybe GZ swung it at TM and ended up hitting himself in the nose. Just thinking out loud here. About the bounty IIRC that was for who ever turned Zimmerman into the police. Maybe not since he had yet to be charged but so many rumors swirled in the beginning.
Hi Laura, I suppose his head could have been cut on a sprinkler, but they are fairly flat unless in operation. as for the flashlight, until there is a forensic report released that determines if there was in fact blood on it, and if so, who it belonged to, I suppose there are several different scenarios. I am assuming they lifted fingerprints as well. I just found it odd that that report was not released. Which leads me to speculate that something significant might have been discovered. Then again, I could be full of chit. LOL
And speaking to the dispatcher not having the authority to demand that GZ not follow Trayvon, I'm not thinking GZ had the authority to play the role of law enforcement either. Concerned citizen, yes. Armed security guard, no.
I also keep hearing people bring up the crime wave that had plagued the neighborhood. From what I can tell, based on information released, there had not been a break in or home invasion in the neighborhood since August or September of last year. And the documents released indicate that the police had identified one of the individuals responsible.
GZ allowed himself to become obsessed with protecting the neighborhood from all threats, real or imagined. Unfortunately, he imagined that the majority of black males in or near the neighborhood posed a threat. His obsession finally resulted in a tragic situation. In his quest for becoming a super hero, "Zimmerman" has managed to create quite a following. I guess we all have to stay
tuned for future episodes to find out what will happen next.
Remember also, CA is out running the streets. Shopping sitting is cafe's etc no one blasted her away YET! She still claims threats. Personally I'd like to hear them instead of take their word for it.
Is this an ex con trying to con T-Mobile.... now who in the world would think that anyone would call Zimmerman and make threats? Naw... this can't be true or is it?
Orlando man with Zimmerman's old phone number slammed by threatening calls
Is this an ex con trying to con T-Mobile.... now who in the world would think that anyone would call Zimmerman and make threats? Naw... this can't be true or is it?
Orlando man with Zimmerman's old phone number slammed by threatening calls
I am sorry but what is the relevance here? Or is this a stab at humor?
Porky3100~~I have been reading comments in here and some folks think that Z is not getting any threats. It is all made up.... if this ex con got issued Z old cell number and is receiving threats, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see what I am trying to get across....
When I write something humorous, I will put a big LOL just for you.
I think the harassing phone call story is relevant in this sense. It's a result of an incident. While not the worst of things, it's still an ugly part of this case that continues to grow uglier, and I'm not talking about the people at the center of this. It shows how far people, not remotely involved, are willing to go.
The sad part is that these people could be for real, or they could be people out to lay blame on the Trayvon supporters; to make them look bad.
Whatever, it's nasty, but the nuts came out during the Anthony mess, too, as many of us know. Heck, I got a visit from animal control for hoarding animals. While not true, it sure was better than a death threat, but I got a few of those, too.
Thanks. I was struggling with it I admit :)
Dave ~~you forgot about the case of baby formula you rec'd. Speaking of threats and terrorizing. I was averaging a couple death threats via email daily and then random phone calls. On one occasion, Family Protection Srvs here in N.S. was sent an anonymous email that I was a threat to the people in my neighborhood and to myself. One of my neighbors was contacted by FPS as well as a family member of mine. They had to verify that I was not a homicidal maniac. This is how far some of these idiots will go. My family, as well as our local PD was made aware of the names and/or IP numbers, of certain individuals in the event that I was ever found with my throat slit.
The only thing I ever did to deserve this terror, Dave, was because I used to moderate your blog and support you.
Then people wonder why I take threats serious... for months, it was pure hell.
This is off topic and delete if you want, Dave.
Nope, Snoopy, this is not off-topic; it's as relevant as those threatening phone calls we just read about. Then and now, they will continue every time a story makes the news. Nuts are everywhere.
Yes, there's the baby formula, but that backfired on them. Since my "baby" is now a toddler, I no longer get Breast Milk magazine or any of the other ones. I didn't mind them, either, because I dropped them off at a clinic, so nothing went to waste. What they did to you was atrocious. I remember when you got a visit from Protective Services. All they learned was that you were no danger to anyone but yourself. LOLOLOLOL!
Dave~ ~ You are right, I am a danger to myself. I punish myself every time I come in your blog. LOLOLOLO
O T,,,,Anyone heard reports that Tod Macalousos plane has crashed killing all on board on a flight to Ohio....?
Thanks for the article Dave ...Wondering if G Z will be hoisted by his own evidence re those bleeding head shots....The blood is running vertical down the back of his head...Gravity would imply his head was vertical whilst bleeding theres no sideway blood runs as would happen if he were on his back say...
Ecossie~~I checked google and there is nothing about Todd Macaluso and a plane crash. Did this just happen??
Think so Snoops someone sent me an e mail I googled it as well no info yet allegedllly a flight to Ohio an all aboard died ....Also meant to post this vid re the blood flow on GZ head wounds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saa2cd4vBy4
Ecossie~~ there was a plane crash today, parents and four children. They cannot find one of the children. The other five deceased bodies have been recovered. They said the names and it was not Todd Macaluso... unless there was another crash. Todd Macaluso represents people who have been in plane crashes. I just watched the press conference of the crash today at CNN Live stream.
Ecossie Possie, I had noticed the same thing, but had assumed he might have bent over to have his head examined by the EMTs. I think I might have even made mention of it on Snoopy's blog some time ago.
Snoops, I hope you weren't thinking I don't take phone or email threats and harassment seriously. I most definitely do. I wasn't exactly spared the wrath of the assholes during the CA saga and am well aware of what you and Dave went through. I just figure that the number of threats against GZ have quieted since he was charged. I think it is hypocritical for people to claim they are seeking justice while breaking the law at the same time. But like I said, there are nut buckets out there just waiting for a chance to lash out against anyone who doesn't share their point of view.
It was the plane that flew Casey Anthony out of Florida
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/local/fatal-plane-crash-reported-polk-county/nPNxs/
Oh my God, I just read the full article. stev and I know the husband and wife. they are close friends of one of Steve's best friends. We have been out with them many times. Both in Topeka and at the Lake of the Ozarks. Damn!
Vicky~~I know you take threats seriously and I am well aware of what you went thru along with anyone who dared to post on Dave's or my blog. Hopefully that is all history now... those dung beetles did quite a job. LOL
I do not think O'Mara is overplaying the threats that Z is getting to gain sympathy for his client. O'Mara even called 911 over a threat his office rec'd. The jail is keeping Z in protective custody as a precaution. I expect that the threats have diminished now that Z is in jail. I do not know if Z's parents are still hiding out.
Vicky~~there was a big hole in the top of the plane...they are searching for a child, I believe it is the 7 or 8 year old daughter... they know she was aboard that plane...
Eccossie ~ I am not sure about the blood flow but I watched the video and now I wonder. I compared what that guy on the video did and the pictures of Zimmerman from the crime scene. I looked at the photo here:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gma-shows-exclusive-images-of-george-zimmermans-head-injuries-the-night-of-trayvons-death/
Sempre~ Back to the sprinkler. I think the comment said something about the smooth top part being knocked off so it would have been the jagged metal piece. Sorry to hear about your friends, very sad.
Snoopy I hope you did not think I implied that the threats were not serious. I thought one of the news stations had said the bounty on Z's head was for him to be turned into the police. I do not think anyone has the right to threaten Z. Well except TM's parents. And I say that because it is God awful to lose a child and to lose one to violence it is only natural for a threatening thought to run thru a parents mind. Well let me just say it ran thru my.
Excellent article just as all others before this one. I don't for one minute believe anything that comes out of GZ's mouth. He does bring that "tot mom" to mind. Totally self-centered. I also think he will walk free. However he like CA will never be free as we who are honest,caring and loving people know freedom.
I do wonder how long O'Mara will represent him.
Laura~ ~the threats I read about were 'death' threats... plain and simple. No one has the right to make death threats...We have courts and a justice system at our disposal if we want to get revenge.
Sorry for the off topic again, The Bramalages are a very prominent family in that area of Kansas. the stadium at K-State is named after Ron's grandfather. Truly wonderful and genuinely nice people. A huge loss for our State and the Junction City community. The family has experienced so much tragedy. Another member of their family was murdered several years back when trying to break up a fight in a bar. Ron had purchase the plane not too long ago.
One more thing, I heard on the radio this morning that Casey Anthony weighs 200 pounds now. LOL.
Vicky~~do you know if they have found the other child that was aboard that plane. They were doing an old out search and there is the possibility that the young one may have survived. I am so sorry to hear about this crash....my heart goes out to the families and friends of the deceased.
Yes, I heard that Casey has gained so much weight that she doesn't need to go out in disguise.
Snoopy I agree some guy on the street should not be threatening Z. I think TM's parents have to much class to threaten him but my point being IF anyone has the right it would be them, and no I do not think they would act on a threat. As far as courts and the justice system is concerned they only work if there is not 12 village idiots on the loose. The court system does not always get it right, jmo.
Sempre I would love to see that photo of Casey.
Steve just got off the phone with his friend. Last they heard, her body has not been recovered, but they haven't had any news for several hours. It is not believed that she survived the flight. The rescue helecoptors were dispatched at rhe time Ron radioed that the plane was in trouble and arrived very soon after the crash. Apparently, the plane began to come apart in flight, it is possible that she was sucked out of the plane before it crashed. All of the other remains were at the crash site. It justnso happens that Steve's brother is in flight school in Orlando, so he is going to try to get additional information in the morning.
Laura, It tickles my funny bone that that vain young woman is now nearly as big around as she is tall. Big bucks for the first photograph taken. LOL
Dave~~I think there is going to be another Zenaida vs Casey. In this case, it will be Corey vs Dershowtiz in a defamation suit soon. It is like a soap opera between these two going on behind the scenes. I expect the boxing gloves are going on soon. Alan is really trying to bait Angela... I have not been posting all the info I am getting... but here is one little tidbit since we are on and off topic...
I do agree with Dersh that Corey overcharged Zimmerman. Maybe the pros should take a long look at the Anthony trial...Even Ashton admitted that Lamar set the sights too high..
Harvard Professor Alan Dershowtiz Criticizes Angela Core
The middle son, 12 year old Boston is the child who is missing. It is believed that he was sucked through a hole in the plane before it crashed.
Snoopy, I thnk both Ad and Corey need to grow the heck up. This case isn't about either one of them and their attention seeking behavior only serves to take away from what should be the focus of this tragedy.
Has anyone read this version of events? This is the first time I have ever read this. If it is true this is a different version than I have heard or read before.
Snoopy I am not sure but I would think it would be up to Zimmerman or his attorney to show the injuries. It just seems like the prosecutor would then be defending Zimmerman for shooting TM. I am no lawyer, so I could be wrong just my thought.
publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.
"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'
"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.
"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'"
Vicky~~It seems Todd Macaluso sold the plane earlier this year. Someone said on my blog the plane was repossessed. Here is the raw video of a chopper flying over the crash site...
Raw Video of Plane Crash site
Sorry here is the link, although I have no clue how to give you a working link. :)
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-world-heard-cries-183813181.html
Just found it interesting Zimmerman supposedly said to Detective Serino that Trayvon falls on his back. With death almost instantly seems like TM would have fell on top of Z since his story is Martin was on top of him. jmo
Laura~~Dershowtiz is a law professor at Harvard and I am not about to argue with him. He thinks that Corey only told half truths in the affidavit.
Snoopy I did not mean to sound argumentative. I just meant it is not her job to put on the defense. I guess I am confused because MOM agreed not to long ago without all the evidence it is to soon to tell if Murder 2 is over charging.
"What the general public has to remember and the media has to remember is that there is a lot we cannot release by law," Corey said.
Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara apparently agrees with Corey.
"[It is] way too early to tell," he said. "That's me not only commenting on evidence, but the weight of all the evidence. And I don't even have all the evidence."
It seems like a pointless battle between the 2 if all the evidence is not out. IMO Murder 2 is fine because Zimmerman is the adult and TM was the minor child. GZ even mentioned him as a teen in the 911 call. Again my problem is an adult harmed a child who LE has said broke no laws that night. Good night all. Vicky I will say a little prayer for the family of your friends.
"Laura~~Dershowtiz is a law professor at Harvard and I am not about to argue with him. He thinks that Corey only told half truths in the affidavit."
Just because Dershowitz is a law professor, that does not mean that he is correct in this case. Please review the following link
http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/29/why-alan-dershowitz-is-completely-wrong-about-the-zimmerman-case/
Very good read, Porky3100. While I admire Dershowitz, he has steadfastly insisted that the jury was 100% right about finding Casey Anthony not guilty. He said that, based on JUNK SCIENCE, had she been convicted, it would have been overturned on appeal. He also insisted that the state overcharged her.
All of this after the fact, of course.
Porky Thanks for the link it is a very good read. In fact it lead me to my question. Here is part of a comment I read :
Many have been stating that they hear clicking of metal sounds on the Zimmerman/911 tape that could possibly be Zimmerman (GZ) loading his weapon. Initially, I blew it off until I was watching a video of the exact weapon that GZ used and I saw the man in the video load the clip into the gun – so I compared the two sounds and they are strikingly similar. The sounds in question are right after the Dispatcher asks him if he is following Trayvon and he appears to have finally stopped running -in that general area. While I realize that it is mere speculation, is it possible that a forensic acoustic gun expert could make such a determination? I ask this because the prosecution has listed a forensic acoustic gun expert on their witness list.
My question is -has a witness list been released? The "noise" has me very curious. I blame Snoopy for that because she is the first person (that I personally read) that said it sounded like a gun. :) Very astute of her imo. With my adhd and ocd I tend to get stuck on questions until I get the answers so I apologize a head of time.
Laura~~ it sure sounded like a gun being opened to check the chamber. I heard that same clicking noise a couple times on that 911 audio...Sometimes being 'astute' gets me into trouble. Ahhhh, I am getting used to it... I have been doing a bit of homework...wanna see the notes I jotted down? LOL
She is a politically-elected person who was appointed to get Zimmerman. She was appointed to prevent riots. She wasn’t appointed to do justice; she was appointed to calm the situation down. That’s the problem when you elect prosecutors. We’re the only country in the western world that elects prosecutors. Prosecutors run for re-election based on how many people they put in jail. That doesn’t produce justice.
1. The prosecution does not appear to have seen the photo until eight days after the affidavit was submitted to the court. The Affidavit of Probable Cause was submitted to the court on April 12th, and was executed the day before on April 11th. The ABC News photograph of Zimmerman’s head was not released until the day of Zimmerman’s bond hearing, on April 20th. The photograph was taken on a cellphone by a friend or neighbor of Zimmerman’s, and there is nothing suggesting that the photo was released to investigators before it was given to ABC News.
Page 18-document by Michael Wagner.... who took a picture of Zimmerman's face with his own person I-phone camera...Z's nose appeared to be broken and he observed blood on the back of Z's head...Wagner also took a pic of Trayvon's face that night...
Page 14-documents... by Ayala, Richardo
"I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans, and white/red sneakers lying face down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body........Sgt Raimondo and I turned the black male over and began CPR The victim was not found on his back!
I am glad you mention not being found on his back. It makes no sense IF that is an accurate statements TM's father gave of the detective's feed back. Why did Zimmerman tell the police he fell on his back if he indeed was found face down? Did Z turn him over? Is this what they mean when they say the scene did not match Zimmerman's account?
Snoopy You make following a case interesting because you have me bouncing all over the place trying to find the answer. :) Thanks, it keeps me from thinking of other things less interesting.
Dave ~~I think a separate post could be devoted to Angie vs Alan. Believe it or not, when you read some of the back and forth, there is a lot of good info for the legal student ( moi) to mull over.
As per Ders..remarks in reference to the Anthony case and the verdict, I will agree with him that Murder One should have never had been put back on the table in April/09. If the pros was looking for a plea, it certainly did not work. I do not agree with the 'junk science' remark. Over confidence on the part of the state along with a jury who did not understand jury instructions that well; they did not want Casey to be in a position to receive the death penalty. I remember telling one of my very passionate contributors to be prepared for a verdict that she would not like to hear. The state also put too many witnesses on to try and convince a jury that Casey was a liar, liked to party and lacked emotion for her deceased child. When the state announced that they rested their case, all I could say was, "you gotta be kidding." Another thing, Ashton's constant smirks did not help the state. Just my take from an old backwoods no nothing...
Now to Angela, thus far, unless I have had blinders on, most legal pundits agree that 'second degree' was an overcharge. I listened to many legal analysts, Sheaffer, NeJame and other lawyers etc after Corey announced her decision which sounded more like a campaign speech. "Depraved mind, intent"...those are powerful things to prove to get a second degree to stick.
One other thing, Corey's decision was made after reviewing witness testimony. Now would that testimony be the first, second or third versions of the accounts from at least four of those witnesses? How will the state prove who was really the aggressor? It is quite evident an altercation took place unless Z tried to beat himself up with his flashlight or a sprinkler hose. I wonder what the decision of a grand jury may have been???
I am probably in trouble again by voicing my opinions...Right?
(Laura~~you will feel like you are on a trampoline with this one...btw Lindsay Lohan was in a car accident and totalled her Porsche...she made her own way to the hospital so must be okay.)
WOW! Thanks a lot. We just covered 2 days worth in one comment. I will have to address one thing at a time. IMO it is very classless to have these professionals attacking one another. While they are acting like 9 year old children 1 family is in pain from losing a child and another family is in pain because their son decided to be neighborhood crime police instead of neighborhood crime watch. It just seems petty in the grand scheme of things.
By the way Snoop I am just commenting you are not in trouble, I am not going to knock you for having an opinion. Lord knows I sure am opinionated.
Laura~~I have an assignment for you when you have time. You are an advocate for children so I would love to know your opinion on the following.
Angela Corey charged a 12 year old as an adult
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