Friday
Jun012012
The Seminole County Courthouse
Friday, June 1, 2012 at 10:14AM I decided to take a trip up to the Seminole County courthouse to take a look around. I want to familiarize myself with the building. It’s a lot different from the one I got so used to during the 3 years I covered the Casey Anthony story.
I plan on attending today’s hearing regarding what evidence the public will get to see before the trial. I have a noon doctor appointment and the hearing is slated to start at 1:30.
If the picture quality is poor, it’s because I used my cell phone.
Dave Knechel | in Benjamin Crump, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Human Interest, Judge Kenneth R. Lester, Jr., Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Rachel Fugate, Seminole County, Seminole County Courthouse, Slimm v. Zimm, State Attorney Angela Corey, State Attorney's Office, Sybrina Fulton, Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (84)
Dave~~do you also think that Judge Lester will agree that Zimmerman's injuries were self-inflicted at a SYG mini trial??
Yoohoo, Dave....
Lying about his financial affairs and lying about what transpired on the nite of Feb 26th are totally two separate issues. Z cannot be accused of being a pathological liar unless more people come forward to verify that.
Here is why I think that Dave is right on the Mark about SYG going out the window. A SYG defense requires a evidentiary hearing. A *key* component of that hearing will be to assess the creditability of the defendant. Lester would be the one hearing his testimony. Does anyone seriously think that Lester will believe this guy?
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/12/11166967-george-zimmerman-expected-to-take-the-stand-in-trayvon-martin-murder-case-legal-observers-say?lite
Well, Snoopy, if you think that Judge Lester is going to look at Zimmerman's injuries and ignore Trayvon's, then you are in for a rude awakening.
I can think of more than two people who already know Zimmerman's a liar. Let's see... the prosecution, the defense, and.... and... and... the judge!
All that's left will be the jury!
Porky3100 ~~you are falling down on the job
Porky's Link
Thanks Snoopers
Snoopy, How can you say that Z's lying about his financial affairs has no bearing on his credibility about what happened with Trayvon? Z has now proved that he is a liar. He lied about a relatively minor matter. Had he disclosed the true amount of money in the PayPal account, it would have had little effect on his life. His bail might have been higher. A minor issue in the scheme of things. He lied even though the effect on his life was marginal. Now that we know that he is capable of lying, how can anyone trust him to tell the truth about events that will determine whether he spends the rest of his life in jail or free?
That fundraising account was mentioned in court and Shelly said she had no idea what was in it-why didn't the court check it out first before pronouncing a bail? It seems like the court took the Zimmerman's word for it when they should have checked it out.
Sherry ~~did you notice at Casey Anthony's bond hearing that Linda Burdick had all of the Anthony's financial data right in front of her? If the prosecution knew of Z's fund raising website, you would think that they would want to know the balance in that account as per April 10th. Burdick was not about to take Cindy Anthony's word for her present finances.
MollyK~~ I would like to know how many people have lied when doing up their income tax. Does this make them habitual liars or murderers?
Shelly and George Zimmerman came in to a windfall and were too immature in knowing how to handle their new found wealth. Z had no problem disclosing the total amount and passing everything over to O'Mara. BTW, O'Mara is not handling the financial funding for Z...a third party, a retired IRS employee is taking care of it.
I do not think that Z or his spouse knew the seriousness of withholding the info re the $135,000, assuming it was for defense fees and living expenses. It was a 'minor' lie but in reality it was a major one.
Video with Mark O'Mara at this link...
Zimmerman Attorneys Request New Bond Hearing
I heard that the jail calls between Z and his wife will be released today...
Video and write up from WFTV
SANFORD, Fla. -
O’Mara plans to file a motion Monday for a bond hearing to get Zimmerman out of jail but admits it could be an uphill battle.
The bond hearing for Zimmerman may not come quickly because sources said Lester will be out of town for the next couple of days.
Zimmerman certainly has some explaining to do, but his legal team has not decided if he will speak on his own behalf.
"My understanding was that Judge Lester seemed to indicate that he wanted testimony. That is a very complex decision to make about what effect that would have, not only at the hearing itself, but any future testimony, so we haven’t made that decision yet," O’Mara said.
Source
"MollyK~~ I would like to know how many people have lied when doing up their income tax. Does this make them habitual liars or murderers?
Shelly and George Zimmerman came in to a windfall and were too immature in knowing how to handle their new found wealth. Z had no problem disclosing the total amount and passing everything over to O'Mara. BTW, O'Mara is not handling the financial funding for Z...a third party, a retired IRS employee is taking care of it.
I do not think that Z or his spouse knew the seriousness of withholding the info re the $135,000, assuming it was for defense fees and living expenses. It was a 'minor' lie but in reality it was a major one."
Snoopy. Are you -seriously- suggesting that one can pick and choose when to lie in court based upon perceived "circumstances"? Please tell me that you are kidding.
You analogy about income taxes falls flat on it's head but to make that analogy relevant imagine if a person who is suspected of filing a false return is bought before court and *then* lies under oath in open court.
Do you see the distinction?
I agree, Porky. I tried to post a response late last night, but it didn't work and I was too tired to try again.
I do think that someone who lies on an income tax return is more likely than the average person to lie about other financial matters. I do not think that someone who lies about financial matters is more likely to commit murder, but this is not the question here. That GZ shot Trayvon is an established fact. The only issue is whether he can be trusted to tell the truth about what happened. It is possible that he is telling the truth, and events took place exactly as he says. It is also possible that he is lying to save himself from a conviction and prison sentence. Assume for the moment that there is no witness testimony, forensic evidence or inconsistency among Z’s various statements to establish which of those possibilities is true. In that case, the jury would have to decide between the two alternatives: Z is telling the truth about the shooting or he is lying about it. The fact that he lied under oath in court about his financial assets does not necessarily mean that he is also lying about the shooting, but it does establish that he is capable of lying under oath, and thereby substantially increases the probability that he is lying about the shooting.
Oh, this all looks just terrible, really. But after Cindy Anthony got away with her outrageous lies we can't assume anything out of a jury down there. However, this is not in front of a jury- and the judge has told us quite clearly what he thinks of it. Only thing I can think of as a possible "defense" of this bone-headedness is that they felt it would all go to the lawyers, not be "theirs" for long. A lot of us might feel the same way, truth be told, in much the same way it is wise to halve your lottery winnings in your own head- govt. will get about half anyway. BUT, you don't LIE to your judge!!!
I also do not want to hear that the Zimmermans should be excused for lying under oath on the basis of immaturity. It’s been years since I was a Catholic, but I seem to remember that the “age of reason,” at which a person is considered capable of knowing right from wrong, is about 7. The Zimmermans are a couple of decades past that age. Even if we consider the latest age (25) at which male brains are fully myelinated and, therefore, fully mature, then Zimmerman has passed that age as well. Female brains mature earlier.
Porky3100~~ I think you got my drift when I tried to explain that when you fabricate about your finances, it does not make you a murderer. Once a liar, not always a liar.
Now if I came in here and ridiculed Zimmerman like the majority of you are doing, I would be quite popular and you would agree with everything I wrote. Well, that is not my style. I weigh both sides of the case and I am not about to change. I will also give credit where it is due and I refuse to write things that I think you want to hear. Miss Goody Two Shoes, I am not. I am not here to win a popularity contest.
It is your perogative to disagree and pick apart everything I write especially if it leans towards favorable remarks regarding Zimmerman. I work both sides of this case and will continue to do so.
Now, you have every right to question what I say but that does not mean that I will spend my time trying to explain to you over and over what I am trying to get across.
I hope this will set the record straight and we can all continue in a harmonious manner in discussing this case.
If you have any issues with me, take them up with Dave via email.
P.S. I do not believe that people sit in a courtroom, under oath, while preparing their tax returns.
Snoopy. There is no need for me to go to Dave. I can handle myself in here. I am not by any stretch of the imagination attacking you personally, instead, I am attacking your position.
On a personal level i have no issues with you and I think that you know that.
Here is the deal though. I think that your position regarding the Zimmerman's deceiving the court is completely incorrect. Accordingly, the analogy that you made to support that incorrect position was also incorrect, and I called you on it.
I found this: Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, said on his website that just under $50,000 of the more than $200,000 raised by Zimmerman's now-defunct Internet page is being used for his security and setting up his living arrangements in hiding. Zimmerman has about $15,000 in cash.
IMO 50,000 dollars since he set up this Paypal sight seems like a lot of money to go through. At this rate he will blow thru a million before trial and that is just for living. I guess my point is before this shooting his wife made it seem that they both had collected unemployment. They should be able to penny pinch. I mean no disrespect it just comes across as living off a tragedy.
I found this...it comes straight from O'Mara et al....
Details Regarding the Request for a Second Bond Hearing for George Zimmerman
on 04 June 2012.
Zimmerman's defense team will file a motion today for a second bond hearing. While Mr. Zimmerman acknowledges that he allowed his financial situation to be misstated in court, the defense will emphasize that in all other regards, Mr. Zimmerman has been forthright and cooperative. He gave several voluntary statements to the police, re-enacted the events for them, gave voice exemplars for comparison and stayed in ongoing contact with the Department of Law Enforcement during his initial stage of being in hiding. He has twice surrendered himself to law enforcement when asked to do so, and this should demonstrate that Mr. Zimmerman is not a flight risk. He has also complied with all conditions of his release, including curfew, keeping in touch with his supervising officers, and maintaining his GPS monitoring, without violation.
The audio recordings of Mr. Zimmerman's phone conversations while in jail make it clear that Mr. Zimmerman knew a significant sum had been raised by his original fundraising website. We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion. The gravity of this mistake has been distinctly illustrated, and Mr. Zimmerman understands that this mistake has undermined his credibility, which he will have to work to repair.
At the point of the bond hearing, Mr. Zimmerman had been driven from his home and neighborhood, could not go to work, his wife could not go back to a finish her nursing degree, his mother and father had been driven from their home, and he had been thrust into the national spotlight as a racist murderer by factions acting with their own agendas. None of those allegations have been supported by the discovery released to date, yet the hatred continues.
It must be noted that, when attempting to interpret George's actions regarding the funds, that he did disclose the existence of the funds five days after the bond hearing, during his first conversation with the defense about the fund. When the defense team learned of the funds, we disclosed this to the court and to the State Attorney's Office, and the money was transferred to the Legal Defense Fund which is now independently managed.
Of the original $204,000 raised by Mr. Zimmerman's fund, approximately $150,000 was transferred to the Legal Defense Fund. $30,000 was used to make the complicated transition from private life in Sanford, FL to a life in hiding as a defendant in a high-profile court case. The balance of approximately $20,000 was kept liquid to provide living expenses for the first several months as the legal process unfolds.
Since the independently managed Legal Defense Fund was established on May 3, supporters have contributed more than $37,000. Of this amount, $2,000 has been designated for household expenses. Less than $300 has been designated for fund management and fees associated with maintaining the conditions of the bond. None of the funds have yet to be allocated to legal expenses. Neither Mr. Zimmerman or the defense team has direct access to the independently managed Legal Defense Fund.
Source
Very good job of trying to "clean" his client up. But this does not even begin to address the shadiness of these 2 on that day. They purposely lied and used code words to hide the money. The rest of his explanation is pure pure hubris.
MOM said:
We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion.
Mistrust of who? In 3 weeks of setting up the original donation site they spent nearly 54000 dollars. Since they have taken over this account another 2000 for household expenses has been given. That in my book is a lot for a couple of months.
and he had been thrust into the national spotlight as a racist murderer by factions acting with their own agendas. None of those allegations have been supported by the discovery released to date, yet the hatred continues.
What? At least 2 witness statements referred to GZ as a racist. I am all for waiting for the trial to see what the jury convicts him of or what they do not convict him of. As far as I am concerned it has been supported at least in the minds of the people he made fun of or scared with his racism. jmo
I'm not certain racism was a motivation for the murder itself, I personally believe that GZ has some serious impulse control issues and was completely outraged that Trayvon had soundly kicked his butt. I believe Trayvon finished nailing GZ, stood up or began to stand up that GZ pulled out his gun and shot him in a moment of total and complete humiliation and blind anger.
As for his being called back to account for his misrepresations to the court. Tough tiddlywinks. As I stated on Snoopy's blog, I am all in favor of him being released again. Better for his PayPal patrons to support him until trial than the tax payers of Florida.
When I first heard about this case the people of Sanford said the Police were racist. I do not live in Sanford but it makes me wonder if they are racist. Who would know better than the citizens?
I also do not know GZ. I do not believe he shot TM because he is a racist. After reading witness statements and listening to the recording of witness 9 (I believe) it makes me question his character. I cannot think of anytime when it is okay to tease someone about their heritage.
The problem I have is the defense saying none of the allegations have been supported in the discovery. His co-worker complained about him and again witness 9 (I believe) sounded scared of him and his family. Apparently she knows all of them. GZ brought this situation on himself. He carried a gun while crime watching. He used the gun knowing the police was on the way because he called them and within 60 seconds of another neighbor hollering that he would call 911- he shot a teenager dead.
I for one do not believe for one second GZ had to get out of his truck to find an address. That gated community did not have that many streets, he could have said I am on Purple Ln and LE would have found him. I just do not like talking ill of the dead when this dead child did not have a criminal record and then speak of GZ like he is some kind of Saint. GZ did not take a thug off the street, he took a kid off the street who had dreams. jmo
I'll give you one better than that Laura. Even if Trayvon was a thug, he was not acting in thug capacity when GZ decided to follow him through the neighborhood. He was not a threat to anyone that night, thug or not, until GZ placed him in a position nobody would want to be in. If there is a lesson to be learned in all of this, it should be that the right to carry a concealed weapon, does not give one the right to create a volatile situation. Too bad there are no laws against stupid.
Sempre We could not house that much Stupid. It is daily news around here. :/
Dave~~I heard that Judge Lester is in Texas and he will be away all week....
One thing that bothers me is everyone talks about how slow Trayvon walked or they assume he made it home and then came back. How do we know where GZ noticed him and made the 911 call? He could have just came in the side entrance. But really why does it matter how fast or slow he walked? This all took place at 7 in the evening.
Dave~~I left home and need a place to store my suitcases... have you got a room I can rent, cheap?
Three hundred and Twenty One....all yours
Snoopy... there is always room for you. Rent-free! Thank you for bringing your suitcase. I've got a good place for you to put it.]
LOL Snoopy!
Sempre it is sad that he has to hide. His parents are not spring chicks and I believe they are moving around with one of their parents. Leave the elderly people alone. My gosh. I believe they could find him a safe place a little closer. It floors me how many people going through the court system waive their right to be there. If it were me, I would want to help with my own defense.
Laura, I don't believe for one minute Trayvon made it all the way home. People also say he refused to run, yet GZ reported to the dispatcher that he was running. So, at one point he did run. All that accomplished for him was for GZ to leave his car and begin tracking him. I believe that once he had his home in sight, he saw no need to continue running. He may have even stopped for a few seconds to catch his breath, which would have given GZ the opportunity to catch up with him. it is more than obvious from witness accounts and the various stories GZ told friends, family and the police, and from the location of various items flagged in police crime scene photos, that whatever happened, did not happen in one spot. So, if Trayvon was the aggressor, my question is why did the "battle" begin closer to the intersection of the sidewalk and move toward where Trayvon was staying, rather than moving in the direction of GZ's vehicle? It would seem logical that if the tables were turned and GZ was attempting to escape Trayvon, the scuffle would have moved toward the location of GZ's car not Trayvon's place of residence. At least that is the way I see it.
Laura, I feel sorry for his parents as well, although I really wonder how much danger they are in, versus not wanting to be hounded by the press and other over zealous stalkers. I wonder where he is hiding. I picture an underground bunker loaned to him by a Prepper. LOL
The way he was dressed when he arrived to turn himself in, my guess is he is staying some place up north, maybe even Alaska. I wonder if he can see Russia from his back door.
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