A shot in the dark heard 'round the world
Thursday, May 24, 2012 at 8:08AM Blackfields & McWhites, Part 2
It really saddens me that Trayvon Martin’s tragic shooting has set people on such opposite paths that it’s gotten downright frightful. In all seriousness, I don’t expect a race war to break out, but there’s no doubt, two paths exist and they are as opposite as north and south, east and west, night and day, and yes, black and white. I spoke with someone the other day who is completely convinced that George Zimmerman will be exonerated for plugging a hole in the 17-year-old boy’s chest and sending him to the morgue, that I was compelled to ask him why he supports the rogue neighborhood watch captain gone wild. He had no real reason; he just felt that way.
“Mark my words,” he exclaimed, “he did the right thing.”
He was quite furvent about it — was, that is — until I hit him with a blunt force statement. Sometimes, you’ve got to fight fire with something much hotter in order to cool the flames. I told him there are only three reasons why anyone would offer their complete support without all of the facts in hand, and they are that:
- He is a racist;
- He fully supports the policies of the NRA or;
- Both 1 and 2
The fact is, this person had no real facts at all when he made the statement. Nor did any of the people who earlier donated over $200,000 to help George pay for his defense. And the money keeps pouring in.
To be fair, I could question some of Trayvon’s supporters as well about racism. Certainly, the New Black Panther party is one. However, there are two stark differences between Trayvon and George and what transpired the night of February 26. One, Trayvon didn’t have a gun and, two, he didn’t stalk George. Still, what strikes me as peculiar is the simple fact that plenty of those people have taken such a firm stand regarding their support for the shooter, that they seem to have no idea about other things, many of which are related to nothing more than what we typically consider to be simple common sense. Yes, George had a legal right to carry a concealed weapon, but that gave him no license to kill. Would he pack his pistol while walking on the beach? Why not? He could, but would it be practical or sensible? What about inside a church? A job interview? Walking into a police station? You see, there are many possible scenarios where being armed makes no sense at all, but what about someone else?
What about a police officer who shoots his/her cheating spouse and romantic partner in a fit of jealous rage? Don’t tell me it’s never happened. A cop has a license to carry, and one to kill, too. Even many white supremacists can carry a weapon just like George, so you can’t use the excuse that he had every right to shoot his target. White supremacists plot to kill minorities all the time. While not calling George a racist, how does anyone other than his close family members and friends know whether he really is one or not? Why give him the benefit of the doubt in every possible way and offer nothing to the victim? You see, my point is all about what’s good for the goose. Why shouldn’t it be good for the gander, too? What makes some think George, a complete stranger, is worth defending? To the point of exalting him? We don’t know the real George. None of us.
Enough of that. Let’s get down to the facts as we know them now. Yes, George Zimmerman had every right to walk anywhere he wanted in the housing development he does not own. So did Trayvon. At the same time, I can walk down the aisles of a supermarket I don’t own, and you’d better believe if I were eyeballing a young mom throughout the store, things would get edgy and a manager would be called. While George was the Neighborhood Watch captain at The Retreat at Twin Lakes, he was not the only one. As a matter of fact, the community newsletter routinely solicits other residents to come forward. In other words, he wasn’t police chief there. As a matter of fact, he wasn’t a cop at all. I’ve heard that he wasn’t acting as a Neighborhood Watch captain that night. Therefore, the implied policy against carrying a weapon shouldn’t apply. Okay fine, but I disagree. Neighborhood Watch people are always on call. There is no time clock. He mentions his capacity as such in almost every call he’s ever made to police — REAL POLICE, and in each case, the “perp” was always black. Never white or Hispanic.
George told police he stepped out of his truck to check house numbers and the name of the street he was on, and Trayvon attacked him from behind as he was returning to his vehicle. It was then that he shot the boy in self-defense. There are multiple problems with that scenario, though; the biggest one being where Trayvon was killed. It was in the common sidewalk area between the back yards of rows of townhouses. It was nowhere near George’s truck or where it was parked. It was a lie. Street names are found on the street and house numbers are located on the fronts of houses, not in back yards. Once he found the information he needed, why didn’t he return to his truck and call the dispatcher back instead of going behind the townhouses with flashlight in hand? There can only be one answer: To find Trayvon.
Police investigators told Trayvon’s father, Tracy Martin, that his son had confronted George at his truck, as George had said, yet nothing exists to substantiate his claim. Certainly, there’s nothing in the police recording of his phone call that evening, from 7:11 pm, when he placed the non-emergency call, through 7:15 pm, when the call ended. He never said anything about Trayvon approaching him in any threatening manner. As a matter of fact, the last thing we know is that he was chasing after the teen when the dispatcher asked and then advised him against it.
Approximately 80 seconds later, the first 911 call came in from someone who reported hearing screams for help. That means the fight was in full swing by then, but for how long? 27 seconds after the first emergency call, Trayvon was dead.
According to ABC News, Sanford police had Trayvon’s phone records within days of his death, yet his girlfriend was never called and questioned about the incident. While I find it rather disconcerting that the police department did not do a thorough job, I can’t place all of the blame on them the night the shooting took place. One of the misconceptions about that phone centers on the length of time it took for SPD to take a look at the device. Why didn’t investigators check it that night? The answer is simple. It was wet and the charge was low. In order to bring it back to life, it had to dry out while someone searched for a charger — something Trayvon didn’t carry with him. (See page 16 of evidence document.) And they needed the pass code.
Benjamin Crump is the attorney for Trayvon’s mother and father. He told the media that the boy talked on and off with his girlfriend for nearly 400 minutes the day he died. According to him, and based on those phone records, Trayvon’s final moments were spent talking to his girlfriend, initiated by a 7:12 pm call. She overheard the start of the altercation. In her recorded interview with an investigator working with Assistant State Attorney Angela Corey, she stated that Trayvon told her a (white) man was watching him from his vehicle. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. Meanwhile, the man continued to watch him. She told Trayvon to get back to his father’s house. He agreed. Then, she could tell he was running because of the sound of wind she heard in the phone’s mouthpiece. Trayvon thought he had lost the guy at that point. Suddenly, he said the guy was getting close to him and within seconds, the altercation began.
“Why are you following me for?” Trayvon asked.
George responded with, “What are you doing around here?”
Trayvon’s girlfriend kept asking him what was going on, but he never answered her. Instead, she said she heard a bump, like someone had hit Trayvon. She also heard what sounded like the phone had landed in the grass. She was asked if she heard any screams for help, and the sound of a gunshot. She did not. Before the phone went dead — and she frantically tried to call him back later to no avail — she faintly heard something else in the background — a voice telling the assailant to get off.
“Get off! Get off!” The investigator asked her whose voice it was and she said Trayvon. Then, the phone went dead.
Bill Lee was the police chief in Sanford on the night Trayvon died. He is now on temporary leave. According to the Huffington Post Website, Lee told HuffPost as early as March 8 that “Zimmerman disregarded a 911 dispatcher who told him to stand down and wait for the police to arrive.”
Lee described the events leading up to the shooting, and it corroberated the girl’s later account to the SAO investigator. Zimmerman, he said, told Sanford authorities that Trayvon noticed he was being followed and asked what the problem was. This is when the altercation took place.
What we now know is that George was, in fact, injured as he said he was, but was he beaten so badly that he came within an inch of his life as his father said in an interview?
According to the Sanford Fire Department report on the night of February 26, EMTs found Trayvon Martin unresponsive and declared him dead. George Zimmerman, on the other hand, was a bit bloodied up, but otherwise fine. Their report was filed at 19:41, or 7:41 pm. He was conscious and showed no outward signs of external hemorrhaging. His mucous membrane was normal. So was his color. Everything was within normal limits, including his breathing quality. His GCS (Glasgow Coma Scale: 0-15) was 15, with 0 being comatose and unconscious, and 15 being fully awake and conscious.
The report stated that he had abrasions on his forehead, bleeding and tenderness in his nose, and a small laceration on the back of his head. All injuries had minor bleeding. He denied LOC (loss of consciousness) and neck or back pain. He had PMS X4 with paresthesia. PMS X4 means that his pulse, motor and sensation were good in all four limbs. Paresthesia is interesting. Generally, it means tingling sensations in a person’s skin. Or it could be a change in bodily function generally associated with a disease. It could also be a hallucinated sensation that insects or snakes are crawling over the skin; usually a side-effect of extensive use of cocaine or speed. George did tell paramedics he was on Librax and Tamazepan, which have been shown to cause agitation and mood swings in less than 10 percent of patients, but I seriously doubt those medications had anything to do with his paresthesia.
While many people believe George’s injuries will play well for the defense, I am less sure. Why? The following day, a doctor at Altamonte Family Practice examined him and found no concussion. The doctor advised his patient to seek x-rays and other professional advice, including a psychological evaluation, but he chose not to. Ultimately, his refusal to pay more attention to his injuries may work against him because there is no further proof of the extent of his injuries beyond the initial photographs and the reports from paramedics and his doctor. Clearly, from the shape he was in from those photographs taken the night of the incident, he was nowhere near death, and within minutes of his initial examination, EMTs concurred. Incidentally, the doctor noted that he made the appointment in order to receive a legal clearance for returning to work. He was ready to rock ‘n’ roll. One down, who cares?
We can ask many questions about why Trayvon’s blood was drawn that night for drugs, but not George’s, which is routine in cases like this. We can point to shoddy work by the Sanford Police Department, which is partially true. We know that George was known to SPD as a friend. Did that have any bearing on his treatment by law enforcement that night, on the scene and while in custody? The lead investigator later wrote:
(Edited for content)
The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party’s concern. There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.
Based upon the facts and circumstances outlined in this narrative, I believe there exists probable cause for issuance of a capias [arrest] charging George Michael Zimmerman with Manslaughter, in violation of Ch. 782.07 FS.
This is precisely what I have been saying all along. Had George just acted like the cop he wanted to be instead of a stupid vigilante out to get “those assholes [that] always get away,” Trayvon would not be dead by his hands. For anyone to donate money to his defense is almost as reckless as he is because no one has given this complete tragedy much thought, just like George on that fateful night.
Why did George carrry his gun that day? Most people with concealed carry permits don’t, other than bounty hunters, private investigators and the like. While not illegal, what did he expect to find at the grocery store or Target he said he was on his way to? Pit bulls?
Ultimately, this will come down to who looks and acts more honest and presentable to the jury. While the defense has George’s injuries and witnesses who haven’t abandoned him yet, not to mention his own personal pit bull, Frank Taaffe, what else do they have? (Personally, I think Taaffe did more harm than good. Always changing George’s account of the events.)
The State, on the other hand, has Trayvon’s girlfriend and it will be very tough to discredit her without looking like a creep. That’s not Mark O’Mara’s style, and he won’t outright call her a liar. They also have Trayvon’s dead body; a kid doing nothing wrong to begin with, and his mourning parents.
This was just so horrible. For the life of me, George must be held accountable for something. So help me dog.
[Note to Laurali — The Arizona iced tea can fell out of Trayvon’s pocket when the paramedics were moving him.]
Dave Knechel | tagged ABC News, Altamonte Family Practice, Huffington Post | in Angela Corey, Arizona Iced Tea, Benjamin Crump, Bill Lee, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Frank Taaffe, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Skittles, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, State Attorney Angela Corey, State Attorney's Office, The Retreat at Twin Lakes, Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (101)
Just a note on the THC found in TM's body. They found traces of THC-COOH. For him to have consumed MJ recently they would've had to find THC-COOH and THC-OH. As it was not, TM was not high as a kite like some people in some other places are saying.
Just had to get that off my chest as I'm fed up with all the "oooh, THC, THC!" without bothering to look up how it works in the blood stream.
[Thank you for clearing that up, RebeccaB, and welcome to my humble blog. This whole THC thing is really blown out of proportion. It has no bearing on the incident whatsoever, and for anyone to assume anything out of it is not educated about the drug at all. I've know people who would quit smoking for weeks if they knew a drug test was coming up. They'd still be afraid it was in their system. I think some people are looking for some kind of excuse - ANY EXCUSE! - to vilify Trayvon. - Dave]
Dave~~Re that article you liked so much that I posted, it was identical to the aritcle MollyK posted, I just made her link clickable after thanking her for it.... did you read both? lol
It looked to me like one of them was longer. I read one of them, but I don't remember which one. Anyway, Taaffe's statement stuck out like a sore thumb. He's a creep.
Porky3100~ ~yes, you can still be a nice guy in lots of ways and drive under the influence and kill someone.
Zimmerman may have made $10,000 in real estate transactions in one month and made zilch in the following months. They work on commission that varies. I would ask Z's father if the 10K was gross or net. I have kept the books and have done many an income tax for Insurance agents.
Are you going to report Z to the Real Estate Commission?
Dave~~I didn't know very much about Taaffee but after reading that comment, he is in my bad books. I wonder if he is affiliated with the three K's...
Snoopy. I think that my point escaped. It doesn't like Zimmerman was ever a broker. Look in the database Snoopy. Either he lied to his dad or his dad is lying. Dunno which is true
That Taafe comment is unbelievable - as if baggy pants made someone a thug. I found a later article where he denied having said that, but said even worse things:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/zimmerman-neighbor-rash-robberies-young-black-men-trayvon-145647987.html
He seems to believe that Trayvon was about to burglarize a home:
"Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."
He also alludes to Zimmerman's "nightly round" - did he really patrol the neighborhood every night?
And he said this:
When asked if, based on the string of robberies, Zimmerman should have been profiling Trayvon Martin the night of the shooting, Taaffe said: "There's an old saying, 'If you plant corn, you get corn,'"
I'm not a lawyer, but isn't this slander or libel or something actionable?
Porky and Snoopy, didn't the article say that Zimmerman was a mortgage broker, not a real estate broker? Or do they have to be licensed, too? Sorry, I'm too tired to find the article again!
MollyK~~when Taaffee was on Nancy G and other news outlets, I tuned him out right away. He sounded like a stuffed shirt bully, a know-it-all. Someone said on my blog that Nancy shut him off because he was saying defaming things.
If baggy pants make thugs...then my neighborhood is full of thugs... Taaffee has been placed in my 'Old Farts' bag... I have Cheney Mason in there now so they can keep each other company.
Porky3100~~I am not sure what Zimmerman's father, Robert's mental state is but he has retracted some things that he had previously mentioned. He is a father who is trying to show the world how good his son is/was. Can we really fault him for that? Robert didn't shoot Trayvon but I understand he is in hiding now along with his wife and another relative. I guess there is a bounty on their heads too.
I cannot believe that Robert Zimmerman condones the actions of George in the killing of Trayvon unless he was convinced it was self-defense. Maybe I am wrong but I would hate to think he does.
Snoopy, I had to google Cheney Mason. I did not follow the CA trial, but I imagine that her defender would not be in your good graces!
Taaffe seems to be operating under a logical fallacy: The crimes were committed by young black men; therefore, all young black men are criminals. He does not seem to need any more information about Trayvon to form the conclusion that he was "up to no good." I wonder whether Zimmerman held the same belief? I am very curious about whether anyone questioned him about the basis for his statement that Trayvon was "up to no good."
MollyK~~yes, Cheney Mason was the outspoken attorney in the Anthony case.
Now, Taaffee is one person that I would say is a racist, no doubt about it. To him every young black male is a thug regardless if they are wearing baggy pants and a hoodie. I am still not convinced that Zimmerman is a racist. Had it been a young white male lingering around the neigborhood, he would have kept an eye on him and called 911. Zimmerman seemed to be overzealous and reminds me of a new patrol officer who will haul every Tom, Dick and Jane over and try to give them a ticket. Z got carried away in his need for recognition and I am sure he will be paying for it when all the evidence comes out at trial. It is a damn shame, there is a young man who will never have the chance to fulfill his dreams. His parents will never ever get over the loss of their son. I will agree, it was all unavoidable!!
Snoopy. I still think that you are missing the point so I will be a bit more blunt. This points to George likely lying to his dad about a lot of stuff and his ( in an attempt to help his son) parroting those lies out to the public. Make sense now?
Porky3100~~I knew what you meant. I changed my mind about you making a good politican. You would make a damn fine Private Investigator... You should be called SnoopySleuth.
I don't think that Z lying to his father, if he did, would be admissable at his trial so it is just moot. Of course it could sway public opinion but the media has discredited Z so much, the scales are tipping towards the state anyway.
True. This is something that is fairly meaningless and will never get to court. I just think it just continues that narrative of a deceptive George.
Porky3100~ ~I am surprised that you haven't told us that Zimmerman was a colicky baby too. LOL
I'm sorry but if perseverance paid off, you would be one wealthy man.
Dang you Porky, I am laughing so hard I can't see to type. No disrespect, I know this is a serious case but sometimes I wonder if your motive is to try and make the Snoop cranky...lol
Busted
LOLOLOL
It is only logical that what they want to keep under seal is info that incriminates Zimmerman.
SANFORD, Fla. -
The defense team of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, said they agree with prosecutors on keeping some evidence secret from the public.
Judge Kenneth Lester set a hearing on the re-sealed discovery for June 1. Among the evidence the state and the defense wants to keep under wraps is a voice stress test that indicates Zimmerman was telling the truth when he said he acted in self-defense. The tests, like polygraphs, aren't reliable and they say they don't want the case damaged in the public's mind.
The defense team wants to keep Zimmerman's emails and text messages out of the public view. Zimmerman's attorneys also want the judge to block the release of about 1,000 emails sent to the city of Sanford about the case because they may "inflame passions" with racially charged comments.
Read more here...
George Zimmerman evidence hearing set for next week
[I'll bet those e-mails are very one-sided, but probably from both sides; pro and anti Zimmerman. Like two dogs fighting.]
Dave~~we are going to see some legal wrangling on June 1st..
This is a very good article and one in which you will learn how the media feels it is their right to gain information and release it to the public re that good old Sunshine Law. Corey and O'Mara on the other hand want to change things. Judge Kenneth Lester is going to feel like he is in between a rock and a hard place when he tries to sort this all out before making his decision. I was surprised to learn that there are 22 witnesses...wow, where did they all come from?
You can read it all here ...
Identifying witnesses in Trayvon Martin case could lead to legal dispute
Dave~~ I think that Ms Angela Corey has overstepped her boundaries by taking it upon herself to dedact evidence without the judge's permission. She seems to be enacting her own laws and playing the role of both prosecutor and judge. She is ready to go into my "old fart' bag if she keeps it up. I hope Judge Lester reprimands her.
I think you mean redacted but I do not think that Corey is doing anything unethical or illegal. She is a bit shrewd and that is about it. You have to admit though. There must be some really damming evidence in Zimmerman's texts and emails. Omara wants us to see not part of either.
Porky3100~~no, I meant enacting....as in making her own laws. The prosecution does not want us to see all the evidence either.
But isn't that the case in any trial Snoopy?
Corey cannot take it upon herself to withhold discovery. She has to file a motion and have the judge grant it. I think she is too big for her undies.
Read this...The prosecution filed a motion seeking to seal that and other information Wednesday. But Special Prosecutor Angela Corey's office redacted the information from the evidence released last week anyway, citing state statute.
"redacted the information from the evidence released last week anyway, citing state statute."
I assume that she has a legal basis by citing a state statue/ Dont you?
The place to cite the state laws should be put in a motion and filed at the court for the judge to decide.
I could be wrong as I am still in the learning process...
Maybe the hearing on Friday will be live streamed and hopefully we can find out more.
Hi Dave. No worries, it's just been bugging me.
One of the things I've been wondering about is when GZ finally stops running, which I believe is when the dispatcher said 'what's your last name'. When GZ says 'Zimmerman' you can hear clicking sounds. I've got no idea how to load a Kel-Tec PF-9 but could it be him putting the magazine in and pulling back the slide? Any gun owners here?
Me again. I found this video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&v=9QbJ_31Qaxw&gl=US
Around 4.48 the guy demonstrating puts the magazine in and it sounds to me like the same noise off the 911 call. What does everybody else think?
Witnesses contradict each other, change stories in Trayvon Martin case
Stand Your Ground law is nothing but a license to kill....Wake up America!
Stand your ground law at center of Phoenix shooting
Except this tragedy did not play out in Sanford, Fla., where an unarmed black teen was shot and killed by a Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer. It occurred in a Taco Bell parking lot in Phoenix on April 3, when a black driver and an Hispanic pedestrian got into a shouting match and the driver shot the pedestrian dead.
Read the article here....
Stand-your-ground law looms large in Phoenix shooting
My heart goes out to the parents of the man who died. Just reading this on first glance, there is no way this should be self defense or SYG. The weapon they claim the man brandished was never found. Like Zimmerman this is another hothead who should be jailed.
Porky3100~~I hope the legislators change the rules of the SYG before everyone gets killed off in your country. It is a license to kill and get away with it.
Did you notice in this case, it was a black man who killed an Hispanic? Now in Sanford, do you think that he would have been arrested immediately? It goes to show that in Arizona, this does not hold true.
No, there wasn't any bat or steel pipe found at the scene of the shooting. They just took the man and his pregnant girlfriend's word for it. Don't they care about the boy who was killed because he was mentally challenged? The creep who fired the gun said he couldn't drive away because of the dog. Well he had no problem killing the dog's master.
How many more people have to die before they change that damn law?
"Did you notice in this case, it was a black man who killed an Hispanic? Now in Sanford, do you think that he would have been arrested immediately? It goes to show that in Arizona, this does not hold true. "
Can't really make that comparison. Arizona is known for some pretty deep seated contempt for Hispanics.
Porky3100~~I am about to give up on all this racial dissension as it seems there is no end to it. I wonder if the people in Alaska are sane. Hopefully some of Canada rubbed off on that state. We are not a perfect country but I am some glad I call it home.
Here is a recreation of the events of Feb 26th...
Somewhat based on the new video evidence, Diwataman has put the “known facts”, including timeline, into an interesting and well constructed video consideration. Take a look:
Reasonable Hypothesis From Treeper Diwataman
Be sure and watch all the videos here.....
More Here
Those are very speculative "loaded facts," but I do appreciate any and all opinions on this matter. What we are all doing is guessing, so that means we all have our own ideas of what transpired that night, and we all have a right to say so. Thank you, Snoopy.
Dave~~I do not want anyone to shoot the messenger who comes in here bearing (baring) 'loaded facts'.
Snoops, I'm not gonna call Treepers out on too many of his assumptions, but there are a few I can't resist. How does he know Trayvon was holdin two 1 dollar bills, perhaps they were twenties, tens or fives. IRRC, he was found with around fifty dollars. Also, how does this Treepers person know that Trayvon wasn't thinking about buying something else. I believe in his personally edited version, Trayvon turned around and walked back to another display and took a look at something.
Next, why would it be any big deal if he ran into other young men he had met in the past at a convenience store. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.
Also, if ace armchair detective Treepers is gonna tell a story, he should at leat get his terminology straight. A cigar (purchased by the other young men) is not a blunt. So the did not purchase blunts. They purchased cigars. Dude sounded completely lame to me when he couldn't even explain that part correctly. A cigar wrap doesn't become a blunt until it is emptied and filled with weed. Duh!
I'll forego mentioning other flaws in his story for now, but there is one point I would like to make. If Trayvon had been taking hits off a blunt on his way home, he would have reeked. Especially if his hair and clothing were damp. No different than a cigarette smoker. Jus a different and very distinctive odor. The police and ME would have definitely noticed. So I call BS on Treeper's theory.
Also, does anyone have a closeup photo of the Arazona Tea Can?
Sempre Invictus, I just happen to be reading through this site when I saw you wanted the picture of the can...
Can on Tarp picture-scroll down a bit
Just a note here for anyone getting anal about the site that I linked to with that can picture-NO! I don't necessarily agree with its contents! I'm no fan of the derogatory remarks, in any case.
It does describe blunts as cigars that get hollowed out and filled with pot, though. I do wonder if facts are being forced to tell one side of the story when I read the different sites on this case. Even if Treepers is off his rocker I can at least respect his effort to investigate and sleuth. But, like I said, are facts being forced to fit a pre-conceived notion of what went down that night?
One other thing-I can't see that Trayvon was walking like that higher than a kite dude in the video. From my mass media studies from years ago, this looks like a subliminal technique to make one think that Trayvon is acting and walking as strangely as that dude. That, to me, is a low blow. And it greatly discredits Treepers, too, as a serious sleuther looking for the truth. (I hadn't read the whole article before posting this comment so my comment looks schizo, I know)
[That blog is so skewed against Trayvon, it's pathetic. It's racist, to say the least, because it places 100% of the blame on a crazy, drug-addicted teenage black boy. It's tantamount to saying that George Zimmerman did the world a huge favor by plugging the bum. The blog owner has every right to state his opinions, but it spews hatred toward minorities by pointing fingers at only Trayvon. I don't care how much effort those people put into their work. So did the Nazis, and look where it got them.]
Sherry, Although I can appreciate Treeper's efforts, I find it appalling that someone who is not a paid member of the defense team, would spend that much time and energy profiling, and painting in a negative light, a seventeen year old victim of circumstances. I also question his qualifications to interpret the ME report and fit it into his hypothesis about what happened that night. I am assuming sine weed showed up on toxicology reports, the ingredients of cough syrup would have as well. That being said, I will not argue that Trayvon may have been experimenting with drugs. Unfortunately, there a quite a few teens who experiment with drugs. Fortunately, the majority pass through that phase without permanent harm or addiction. However, the very fact that his preference seems to have been the high associated with marijuana, I would assume he wasn't taking himself to the "higher plateau" described in Treeper's article. Also, Since Trayvon was allegedly planning to mix his Robatussin DMX with watermelon juice, there was no need to add the skittles for flavor. So, let's give him a bit of credit for being a nice guy who was buying skittles for the 14 year old. :)
If one accepts Treeper's theory of what happened that night, in one half hour Trayvon went from being so messed up, he couldn't have slapped his butt with both hands, to being a stealth master of martial arts, with the keep observation skills necessary to notice a strange man observing him as he made his way through the neighborhood, formulate a plan and excecute it within minutes. Treepers seems to want to have his cake and eat it too. I have more to say about Treepers and his attack on Trayvon, but I have to go to work for now.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel complete outrage over demonizing Trayvon Martin. What the "other side" is doing is in my opinion no different than saying a woman deserved to be raped because of the way she was dressed and had too much to drink, or was too high on drugs and was asking for it.
Let's just say Trayvon was high that night and was acting strange. When observed by GZ, he was not posing a threat to anyone. I've personally observed many impaired people walking down the street after dark. Were I part of a neighborhood watch, I might report the suspicious character, but I most certainly would not place myself in harms way by following a person I felt was enough a threat to call the police. IMO, the only thing that made Trayvon a threat in GZ's world was the fact that he was a black teenager, unknown to him, who had the audacity to enter his hood after dark, six months following a cluster of criminal activity. GZ set the events of that night into motion. The stand your ground laws were never intended to empower individuals to take the law into their own hands. IMO, The unintended consequences of a poorly written and vague law is that there are many more Trayvon's to come.
[I agree with you, Vicky. Especially the part about raping a woman. The truth is, no drugs were found in Trayvon's system except for a trace amount of THC, which could have been a month old. Certainly, there was nothing more found in his body the night he died. The owner of that blog and his readers are a bunch of bigots as far as I'm concerned. You'd think GZ is the second-coming of Christ, for crying out loud, the way he's pontificated.]
Unless the media can put up a good argument before Judge Lester on Friday, we will not be privy to a lot of discovery.
Although a large amount of evidence was released last Thursday, any statements from Zimmerman to police have yet to be seen. Since the release of the evidence Special Prosecutor Angela Corey has said those statements from Zimmerman may show why the prosecution chose to charge him with second-degree murder. She requested the statements be sealed from public record.
In her most recent motion she wrote, “Defendant has provided law enforcement with numerous statements, some of which are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses.”
Corey also requested all crime scene, autopsy and other photos showing Martin’s body be kept sealed. Additionally, she asked that the 911 call recording the shooting be sealed.
Read it all here...
New motions filed in Zimmerman case detail evidence prosecution, defense want sealed
[I hope I can get out of my doctor appointment in time to make the hearing.]
I found the material on that website very upsetting. They've woven quite a story from thin air. I can't help wondering whether these people would work so hard to turn a white teenager, shot and killed under the same circumstances, into a drug-crazed thug. I wouldn't even know where to start deconstructing this story. I hope to God Trayvon's parents aren't aware of this site.
Today there is a widely reported story about NYC police stopping and frisking teenagers. Students at Stuyvesant HS, one of the NYC exam schools, with mostly white and Asian students, and students at schools in a bad NYC neighborhood, were asked about their experiences. "WNYC had trouble finding anyone at Stuyvesant who had been stopped ... On the other hand, at schools in Brownsville, some 14-year-olds said they'd been searched up to seven times, beginning as early as age 12."
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/05/even-teenagers-understand-stop-and-frisk.html
[I absolutely guarantee, Molly, that had it been a black neighborhood watch captain shooting a white kid with tea and Skittles, that blog would be writing all about the black dude. Just the opposite of what they're saying now about Trayvon. It's filled with false claims written by bigots and hypocrites.
Thanks for the NJ Mag link. That doesn't surprise me.]
Not to change the subject completely but like Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law Colorado has its own "Make My Day" law which if you or your property is threatened you have the right to protect yourself by use of deadly force.
Unlike Zimmerman who failed on multiple levels and opportunities to indentify himself Colorado had an incident in which an intruder entered a house and woke up the homeowners. The intruder was at the foot of the bed and the husband brandished a firearm and told the intruder to leave several times. The wife, obviously next to her husband, also asked the perp to leave,
In the end several warnings were given and the homeowner, feeling threatened, shot at the flashlight. The perp was shot in the hip and although serious the perp is recovering from the non-life threatening wound. The perp was a she and she has appeared in court. She was intoxicated w/a BAT of .20 (which was probably higher at the time of the shooting).
with that said, to you or I, who may support the theory of "stand your ground/make my day" what transpired on this night was legitimate. The homeowners not knowing who was at the foot of their bed, shining a light in their eyes, not taking their warning obviously had the right to use "deadly force" but they didn't.
Trying to relate it to the Zimmerman/Martin Case I find that the only thing I can grasp at are the decisions. Obviously Zimmerman knew who Martin was (meaning he had a discription of who he was following) and Martin probably had a discription of Zimmerman. Zimmerman, IMO, never attempted to warn Martin the possibility of being shot unlike the couple here in Boulder who, according to recorded statements, made it abundently clear that if the intruder did not leave the residence the intruder would be shot. These homeowners stated that the perp was warned several times by both the husband and wife.
So, under these circumstances and what is known of the Martin/Zimmerman Case who has the "more right" to use deadly force? IMO, the couple here in Colorado but what they elected not to do is use the deadly force. Sure the shot was in the hip but she'll live.
In the several statements I've read I dont know of anytime in which Zimmerman claimed he had a weapon which I would figure, if he were threatened and wanted his ass beating to stop, he would've simply made the warning allowing Martin to stop beating his ass and wash his hands and both leave on their own accord? In this instance Zimmerman and Martin stood at each other face to face and they could clearly make out one-and-other? The couple in Boulder stated that the light being shown in their eyes obscured the intruder and both were very scared as they were not sure of the persons intent...but they still elected to respect life and simply wound.
[I agree, BMan. Sadly, Zimmerman thought the whole complex was his property to defend. Even the SPD investigator said the whole incident could have been avoided had Zimmerman 1) Identified himself while observing Trayvon from his truck; and 2) Never got out of his truck to chase after the boy. Those have been my gripes all along. He had zero common sense that night.]
BMan~ I completely agree with protecting YOUR house and your property but shooting a teenager because he is kicking your ass is disturbing. Trayvon was no where near Zimmerman's house. SYG should only be used for the perimeter of anyone's property using that defense. jmo BBL off to the doctor. :(
May I respectfully addd that GZ,after shooting Trayvon,had holstered his weapon. Calm cool and collected indeed.
Thanks Dave for anotherr great article showing amazing insight.
[Methinks Zimmerman watched Death Wish movies too many times, not realizing they were products of Hollywood.
Thank you, Tommy's Mom. I appreciate your thoughts.]
Hi Dave,
Thanks for this great blog post, loved it!
1) I've seen some theories around the web that Trayvon made it home and was catching his breath on the porch, when George came round the corner, confronted him, Tray took off, George gave chase, and Tray was shot where his body was found.
I don't know, there are problems with that scenario..
2) I have to say though, long before reading those theories, I wondered whether George's call to 911 wasl all a lie. Did he fake seeing a boy while on the phone? The "he's coming to check me out".."he's got his hand in his waistband" delivery just pings my intuition as sounding fake. George ramps up the anxiety as if he's in imminent danger...the dispatcher catches it, because he says "let me know if he does anything"(implying he feels something is about to happen) Then, George switches mood and tone and calmly comments on things with: "These assholes always get away"..then he's casually giving directions! If I was that dispatcher, I'd be wondering 'Hey, what happened..where did the suspect go?!"
One think I know for sure about George is, he makes up stories - he is a pathological liar!
a) I wonder if George staged the 911 call? Do investigators have any independent evidence of Trayvon passing by George at that time?
b) How did George spend his afternoon before he shot Trayvon?
c) Why are there scratch marks on George's face yet none of his DNA under Tray's fingernails?
d) Why are there so many blood/dna spots (mixed dna) on George's clothes, when Trayvon's gunshot had minimal bleeding - he bled into his chest - and that minimal bleeding would have been absorbed by his 2 shirts?
e) The only other cut on Tray was the tiny abrasion on his left ring finger. How could Tray have beaten George without abrading his knuckles? Trayvon had "right-dominant" blood flow from ME report, yet tiny abrasion was on left hand - Tray couldn't inflict damage throwing punches with non-dominant hand!
Something is VERY wrong here! From the physical evidence, there was only a chase, an aprehension and a shot! There is no evidence of a fight..a struggle....certainly not one between George and Trayvon! Maybe George fought someone, and got beaten, but I don't think that someone was Tray!
...Exactly how did George say he spent his afternoon prior to parking his car in the Retreat?
Investigators never seized his car to check for blood, did they? And, we know he got no breathalizer or blood test!
...sorry this is so long.. I am heartsick about this murder.
[There is no evidence that Trayvon made it to the back porch where he was staying. We must be very careful about what we read. Just like in the Anthony case, there's so, so much conjecture and blatant interpretation of the evidence we have today. No evidence has surfaced that Trayvon was on that porch, let alone opening the door to it.
I believe George when he made the call to a SFP dispatcher. Remember, it was made to a non-emergency number, not 911. Keep in mind that, while he was on the phone, so was Trayvon, and he let his girlfriend know that he was aware of George staring him down.
"These assholes always get away" can be damaging to George. It shows he has a self-perceived notion about some type or set of people, whether black or something else, and it has nothing to do with age bacause of the two distinctly different observations made by George. He told the dispatcher his suspect was in his late teens, yet while on the stand apologizing to Trayvon's parents, he claimed he thought the boy was about his age - 28. This shows that his "assholes" must be some other demographic, and not much is left to guess about.
I am very upset the police never checked George's truck or took blood samples for testing. Why? Because the less evidence the state has, the less the chance to convict. In my opinion, George was so cozy with that police department, he was treated as a crony. Big George, the neighborhood watch dog, done shot hisself a gangsta thug. Whoopee! Shovel him under the woodpile. It's a terrible blunder.
As for a fight, several witnesses have come forward attesting to it. There was definitely a physical fight, but that's all we know for sure. I do believe the SYG law will not apply here because there is only one side of the story. The other side is dead, and there's no reason for the judge to take George's word for it, most certainly because the state asserts that he gave inconsistent stories to separate investigators. That's proof enough to send it to trial.
The gun and fatal shot was most likely touching Trayvon's clothing or very close to it. For a split second, Trayvon was alive and blood gushed out upon impact. At the moment of death, the bleeding stopped, but this would explain his blood on George. The penetration opened a hole just wide enough to splatter blood outward immediately.
Finally, the wounds on George were consistent with something that had just occurred. That would also explain why his blood was found on Trayvon's clothing. No doubt, a fight occurred, but it seems to me that George had rehearsed his SYG defense long before, most likely in anticipation of something like this taking place one day. What he wasn't aware of, though, was that Trayvon had his own witness with his girlfriend, and she tells a different story.
Thanks, Mhaven, I hope that helps. If you have other ideas and questions, don't hesitate to ask or state your mind. All is appreciated, and there's no need to apologize about anything.]
Mhaven, Personally your type of comment helps me to expand my own thoughts so I appreciate your questions. We can all come up with a few questions but input like yours really are new and very interesting. Some of us have no idea what really happened in those last few minutes of Trayvon's life. There is only one most reliable witness who unfortunately is also the victim deceased. We will have to wait and rely on the authorities and attorneys conclusions based on reconstruction of the scene with proof, if it even comes to trial, I didn't think it would up until the last week but am beginning to change my mind. Question # 2. really caught my eye. The Answers here to your questions are very good also.
I agree with NewPuppy that Mhaven's questions are intriguing, particularly the one about Zimmerman's mood/tone of voice during the 911 call.
One thing that has been puzzling me has to do with Trayvon's and Zimmerman's relative advantages in a fist fight. Who would be more likely to dominate - a taller, slighter, younger kid or a shorter, heavier, older man? The common assumption seems to be that Trayvon was much stronger. In recent photos, he looks slight. In the 7-11 video, he does not look particularly fit. In the video from the police station, Zimmerman looks strong and fit. He looks thinner and weaker now. Trayvon was a football player, but as far as I know it was only a community/youth league. I don't think he played for his HS team. And I doubt that he played year-round. Was he involved in any other sports, or any form of physical activity? Did Zimmerman work out regularly?
I also wonder whether Zimmerman applied to any police departments and, if so, why he was turned down. Would his record be enough to disqualify him? He wanted to be a police officer badly. I'd be surprised if he never applied to any departments.