For whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Saturday, December 15, 2012 at 12:23PM Bill Geist said it best. On his Facebook page, he wondered “what is the NRA’s position on privately owned SCUD missiles and nerve gas?”
Geist, if you can’t place him, is a noted author, columnist and TV journalist for CBS. He is usually seen on the critically acclaimed program Sunday Morning on that network. He recently announced he has Parkinson’s Disease.
Speaking of Scud missiles, just the other day, Syria fired Scud-type missiles that landed precariously close to Turkey’s border. NATO decided to deploy batteries of Patriot air defense missiles along the Turkish-Syrian border in order to shoot down any that would otherwise land in Turkey.
For thousands of years, wars have begun over border disputes. Where do you draw the line. It’s mine! No, it’s mine! Do you want proof? At your next holiday dinner with family, take your glass of wine or whatever you like to drink and move it to the placemat of the person sitting next to you. Wait a moment and see the reaction. This close family member will explode in one form or another.
“What are you doing? Get that glass off my placemat! This is my space!” That little tract of land becomes their private property, even as a guest in someone else’s home.
That, my friends, is called sovereignty. What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is yours. Sometimes. Now, imagine this is the same type of situation between nations. One must protect its territory. If the Scud is fired in the direction of Turkey and a Patriot is deployed to destroy it, what happens if the missiles explode over Syrian territory. Is that an infringement by Turkey? After all, the engagement was in Syrian airspace.
My point actually has to do with political correctness. In order to be politically correct, the two missiles should “technically” blow up in the buffer zone between the two nations in order to not break any international rules set forth by the United Nations. It’s okay to buy and fire all sorts of missiles, but be careful with where they are used. Sadly, we’ve known for thousands upon thousands of years that we cannot trust anyone with a weapon of any kind. BOOM BOOM, BANG BANG, LIE DOWN YOUR DEAD. How many have died in battle?
Any citizen of the United States can buy a gun in the state of Florida without being required to have a firearms permit or license. A buyer will be subject to a background check with FDLE and there is a 72-hour waiting period, but once approved, you’re in. Buy the gun and take it home. This is for handguns only. For any other type gun, like rifles and shotguns, you don’t have to wait. Take them home right away! If you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, you may be exempt from the waiting period if you buy a handgun, just like the one George Zimmerman bought. Just like the one Michael Dunn bought.
How Adam Lanza ended up with two handguns and an assault rifle is baffling, but I would bet the farm that they were legally purchased. Twenty young, innocent school children and seven other innocents died yesterday at the hands of Lanza. In all 28, including himself. Lanza is like all the rest; cowardly. He took his own life. We will never know why he did it, but family and friends are saying he was highly unstable. Yet he had access to guns. Why? Because the NRA says so. I strongly believe in the Second Amendment — the right to bear arms. But enough is enough.
In its decision, District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. (2008), the US Supreme court affirmed the right to bear arms:
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home
Of course, in the wrong hands, there’s nothing lawful about it and, unfortunately, we never know when someone will snap, like Michael Dunn and, now, Adam Lanza. Lanza joins an exclusive club — the access of evil that shoots up malls and schools before gunning themselves down. Victims are random. Death to all is the only thing that matters. Then, take the easy way out. There is no God to answer to in their minds. In Lanza’s distorted view, he saved the world from evil. Little Hitler.
It’s time to change the laws in this great country. It’s time to make the purchases of firearms more complex, like nations buying Scud missiles and nerve gas. It’s time to limit the types of purchases. If you collect guns and you absolutely need that AK-47, then it should be mandatory to keep it under lock and key, like a fine wine or a restored 1956 Thunderbird. Guns should never be left out unless the person owning it is the only person who knows how to immediately access it. Even car insurance companies will stipulate that you are the only driver covered. No one else. Hold gun owners responsible for the actions of others. The guns belonged to his mother. If Lanza hadn’t killed her, too, she should have been held accountable. If she were alive, she should be charged with being an accessory to murder, whether she knew or not that he would do what he did. She enabled her son.
The mind of Lanza was as hollow as the bullets he probably fired. God bless the victims and their families, and all who were affected. That includes everyone from everywhere. We mourn as a nation; the civilized world cries. We’ve suffered enough at the hands of lunatics. What can we do to stop the carnage? Well, there ain’t no time to wonder why. Whoopee, we’re all gonna die!
Something must be done to end it before these words from Roger Waters and Country Joe continue to ring true. Again and again and again. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Hallelujah!
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Below are the names of the victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, as released by Connecticut State Police (Name, age, date of birth, sex):
Charlotte Bacon, 6, 2/22/2006, F
Daniel Barden, 7, 9/25/2005, M
Rachel Davino, 29, 7/17/1983, F
Olivia Engel, 6, 7/18/2006, F
Josephine Gay, 7, 12/11/2005, F
Ana M Marquez-Greene, 6, 4/04/2006, F
Dylan Hockley, 6, 3/08/2006, M
Dawn Hocksprung, 47, 6/28/1965, F
Madeleine F Hsu, 6, 7/10/2006, F
Catherine V Hubbard, 6, 6/08/2006, F
Chase Kowalski, 7, 10/31/2005, M
Jesse Lewis, 6, 6/30/2006, M
James Mattioli, 6, 3/22/2006, M
Grace McDonnell, 7, 11/04/2005, F
Anne Marie Murphy, 52, 7/25/1960, F
Emilie Parker, 6, 5/12/2006, F
Jack Pinto, 6, 5/6/2006, M
Noah Pozner, 6, 11/20/2006, M
Caroline Previdi, 6, 9/7/2006, F
Jessica Rekos, 6, 5/10/2006, F
Avielle Richman, 6, 10/17/2006, F
Lauren Rousseau, 30, 6/8/1982, F
Mary Sherlach, 56, 2/11/1956, F
Victoria Soto, 27, 11/4/1985, F
Benjamin Wheeler, 6, 9/12/2006, M
Allison N Wyatt, 6, 7/3/2006, F
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Reader Comments (49)
Dec. 14 -- This morning, just after school had started in a small town in rural Connecticut, 20 little boys and girls were slaughtered in their classroom because they were beloved by their teacher, and her son hated her and hated them. First he killed his mother with one of the guns she had bought, and then he took her car and drove to the school where he killed the children, the principal, the school psychologist, some teachers and then himself with two other guns his mother had bought, leaving an assault rifle in her car. Who is unbalanced here?
Was it the mother, an elementary school teacher, buying assault weapons in her name - but for who? Was it for the son with a ‘personality disorder’ who at 20 was living at home?
The guns certainly weren’t for the sweet little boys and girls who had skipped off the bus that morning, excited because Santa was going to be coming to their house soon.
The guns weren’t for the teacher who took that class, never ever imagining it would be her last one. Who does she leave behind?
The guns were not for the other staff members who tried to protect the children and were simply riddled with bullets where they stood, dumbfounded by what they were seeing.
There are 28 people whose lives were ended by this brutal act, making this the second deadliest school massacre in U.S. history.
Tonight as I try to make sense of yet another senseless event, I am unable to play my silly soothing card games knowing there are mothers and fathers and husbands and wives and sisters and brothers and aunts and uncles and grandmothers and grandfathers and friends - so many friends in a small town - who are grieving… weeping and raging at a horror one cannot imagine. Who thinks a small town like Newtown will have such violent event? Who can grasp the enormity of 20 young lives being ripped away after breakfast by bullets meant for armies? Who invented all these weapons anyhow? Why is it that any man can create such a deadly thing?
But the huge question in my head tonight is why - why - why did a mother with a son who was clearly troubled ever go out and buy not one, not two, not even three, but FOUR weapons with such violent purposes that they could only be meant for one thing… to kill. And this was a woman who was supposed to love her elementary class, a woman who was supposed to be teaching these little souls, a woman who - one supposed - might one day be a loving memory of several of these children at a class reunion.
Now it is all gone. The woman, the son, the class, the staff and the dreams. And what is left are the guns.
And the grief.
Thanks, Dave. I am learning the guns were purchased legally and belonged to the mother. Stories are changing as more news comes outs. Things have been so chaotic in Newtown and rightfully so, it is hard to sort some things out. The shooter supposedly had a personality disorder yet was an honor student. Why did a young man with a messed up mind have guns in the home he resided? He had two guns when he entered the school and another gun was found in his mother's car which he drove to the school after shooting her in the face at their home.
We cannot shove this all under the rug. it must be discussed openly and honestly. I do not care that I live in Canada with strict gun controls. I have a daughter and son -in-law also many dear friends in the US and have every intention of speaking my mind about this latest carnage. I am a mixed bag of emotions from deep deep sadness to outright rage. Friggen guns!! I will be back.
While any death of a person due to violence from a deranged person with a gun is a tragedy that ultimately touches us all .....here the death of 20 little children is breath-taking....One of the 20 was scheduled to play an angel in the Christmas play ....a cruel irony.
Edgar Allen Poe summed it up best: doubly dead in that they died so young.
If you have to pass a test to gt a driver's license ....why isn't the same thing required for guns?
I know that the NRA mantra is that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" Well, Adam Lanza wasn't shooting tennis balls.
I agree with you Dave, who is the owner of the guns who allowed this kid to have access? Yes, citizens have the right to have guns ...but with those rights come responsibilities ...and if you foul up and fail to live up to your responsibilities, then you need to be held accountable.
I have a memorial to attend, but please feel free to address this situaion and offer your sympathies. Unfortunately, some of the crazies are back and I must moderate comments from all but members. Please be patient, I will let them out ASAP.
Sandy~~thank you, thank you. You have summed things up with honesty and did not go pussy footing around. I admire that in a person. Thank you again. I think the unnecessary killings have touched many of us from near and far. There has to be change in gun laws. Being able to own a gun should be a privilege not a 'right' for starters. Conceal and Carry permits are renewed without a mandatory mental evaluation. The Gov't is more interested in all the revenue that guns, permits and the like realize than the innocent victims who are killed by the maniacs who feel they have a 'right' to protect themselves or the world. whatever in hell is on their minds as they pull that trigger.
I will share a few links sans any of my own commentary about them. You read and judge the info accordingly.
Adam Lanza, the Newtown school shooting suspect, was a 20-year-old honours student who lived with his mother
Pictures at this one and they also keep updating...
Connecticut school shooting: Pain and chaos in the school, community
One hour ago-update
Connecticut school shooting: Suspect killed his mother at their home before going on rampage
Ana Marquez Greene, a 6-year-old girl who moved to Newtown from Winnipeg, CANADA, with her family, was shot and killed in Friday's mass shooting. She was one of 20 kids murdered inside Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Ana Greene
Lauren Rousseau, 30. Her mother is a News-Times copy editor. Rousseau had just become a permanent teacher in October after previously working as a substitute. Again, from their story by reporter Robert Miller:
Lauren Rousseau’s life was shaping up in the best ways.
At 30, she had a boyfriend, Tony Lusardi III.
“I called her `Busy Bee,’ ” Lusardi said Saturday morning, speaking of the pace Lauren lived her life. “She called me `Worker Bee.’ ”
Family learned early Saturday morning that Lauren was one of six adults killed by a shooter at Sandy Hook Elementary School Friday morning.
Lauren, after years of working as a substitute teacher, — while working other jobs to earn a living — landed a permanent substitute teaching job at Sandy Hook Elementary School in October.
“It was the best year of her life,” said Teresa Rousseau, Lauren’s mother and a copy editor at The News-Times.
I did not know about the killings until this morning. My sister's nurse mentioned it so we watched the news. It seems like so many people keep asking why? WTH does it matter why it happened nothing justifies killing little kids. Nothing. I do not care if he has had his ass kicked every day since the time he was born he did NOT have the right to take someones child from them. Nothing explains why he would walk into a elementary school and open fire. My mind is drawing a blank on what would explain it.
My Mom never had guns in our home. I do not have a problem with people protecting their home but now people are taking their guns to the streets -killing and then using every excuse under the sun for justification. He punched me in my whittle nose, their music is to loud, he has mental health issues and he is a white supremacist-again who cares? I bet none of those excuses made the family feel better.
I feel so bad for all the families who lost a loved one. Nothing ever brings them back and all the parents will remain heart broken forever. It is difficult for the siblings living without their loved bother or sisters. This is disgusting. I will pray for the families of the victims but I will not and cannot pray for anyone who would kill innocent children. He does not need my prayers, his name should not be mentioned ever again. They should refer to him only as a baby killer.
I am not an expert on gun laws but I bet this is not what the forefathers had in mind. Funny how some politicians are more worried about entitlements and what they were meant for but guns are over looked because of the money thrown their way. The Constitution was to ensure we all had the same rights, what rights did those children have yesterday? Sorry Dave and all I am just so sad. I use to love Santa Claus, these kids should be home counting down the day til Christmas. Their parents shouldn't be preparing to lay them to rest.... I do not know how to word it like you all do so I will finish saying this is gross, disgusting and not right! Shame on the baby killer.
So sad. I think just about every home in the US was talking gun control at some point yesterday.
I'm old enough to remember the Vietnam War era and hearing the guys talk about the guns they used in that war. They weren't allowed on the streets at that time. The M14 was .308 caliber, the M16 was .223. Now anyone can own that caliber gun. If they don't buy them at gun stores, they buy them at gun shows and even steal them. But they're out there. Those guns were his mother's but he tried to buy one on his own a few days ago, so that tells me the guns at home weren't readily accessable to him. I'm getting the idea he found them and an altercation ensued resulting in his mother's death. As to why his mother would buy those kinds of guns, I wondered too. Then I remembered my grandfather's gun that passed to my mother on his death and my ex-husband has his father's military WWII vintage gun and hunting rifle. They could have been her ex husband's guns she kept out of spite because she bought them, or because they belonged to her father. So if it turns out she purchased them it would be very curious as to why. Especially if her son had mental issues.
Someone needs to point out and remember that back when the second ammendment was written, this nation was at war. It also used a gun that involved putting powder and ball into it before it could even be shot. That's a one-shot gun. Nothing like what we have today. The NRA is taking this far enough from the norm to be unrealistic in my opinion. No one needs a high powered gun nowdays unless they live near bears. Personally I'd like to see this nation go to a policy of gun control that allows nothing more in the hands of a private citizen than a six shooter and a maximum of one gun per household. (If they can set up a national fingerprint registry they can set up a national gun registry firearms dealers can access to see if that person has bought more than 1) If a person collects guns, he shouldn't be allowed to buy the ammo for those guns- after all I found out at the divorce that guns appreciate in value when not shot, they don't depreciate. .308, .223 and hollow points should be taken off the market all together. My ex does re-loading for his hunting guns so I know there would be those out there making their own, but even then the jacket being refilled will only last so long before it becomes dangerous. So take the higher caliber guns and ammo off the market. Sell nothing more than a 6 shooting revolver that requires a trigger pull each time and reloading after 6 shots. Hunting rifles are hunting rifles, so unless you live in an area infested with bears or other dangerous wildlife, you shouldn't be allowed to possess anything high caliber.
The second ammendment can stay, but the NRA needs to change it's policies. It's lobbying has helped create the world we live in today. It's time for them to either change or the congressmen they influence need to not be elected for another term.
Gun shops are policed, but the gun shows need to be also. Every gun used in a crime should be confiscated and not returned, whether it was stolen and the owner found or not. Every person stopped for a traffic violation and is armed, the same goes. Take the gun and don't return it.
Ok, I'm going off into left field here so I'm getting down off my extremely short soap box. My heart goes out to all those parents who lost children yesterday. I just kept thinking of my kids at that age and about the mother who probably told a malingering child to hurry up or they'd be late for school that day. So sad.
conniefl, i agree with you. I wrote a similar comment at Snoop's. You said it better than I did. NRA members also want control laws just not as strong as we do.
Sandy,I like you, can't stop that one word from running through my mind like a broken record, Why,Why,Why. I read somewhere this morning that there are almost as many legal gun shops as there are gas stations in the U.S. Guns are no longer for sport, but are used by too many wackos who believe they are the only way to solve their issues. I am sick to death of the excuses that are given for these monsters.
Conniefl~~you are very well up on your guns and your comments were very informative. I did not know that guns appreciate in value if not fired.
Here is a question for you or anyone.... If a person is driving a vehicle while drunk (over the .08 limit) he is charged with a crime. Let's just say that one of his passengers is very intoxicated, well over the limit but not considered disorderly. If this same passenger is in possession of a carry & conceal weapon, can he/she be charged with a crime? Are there any laws on the books for this type of situation?
In other word, can anyone be in possession of a carry& conceal while not in full control of their actions.
One other thing, we have no bears here in Canada than run in packs but plenty of wolves in the North West Territories that do. Any person venturing into these areas can carry a firearm with a special permit.
My knowledge of guns is limited to twenty-twos, rifles and shotguns. I wouldn't recognize a real handgun from a water pistol.
If and when additional gun laws are passed, as citizens there needs to be follow-up on the funding for enforcement and procedures in enforcement. Repeating what I said at Snoops, a law passed without funding or enforcement procedure is no more than a law on paper only. Everyone can get excited about gun laws being changed but that is not enough. We must pay attention to make sure it can and is being enforced !!!
I have no problem with anyone owning a gun if that is their "thing". I would however suggest the following to be rules for gun ownership.
1. 25 years of age
2. Clean reccord with LE and must past a test in safety & make some questions psychological to
determine state of mind.
3. Proof of insurance,we must show proof of insurance to drive a car why not to own a gun/guns.
4. Very high premiums on the insurance.
5. Very high taxes on guns and ammo. It helped with cigarettes so many it wil help with gun sales.
Surely there is nothing in those six things that the NRA can omplain about.
They want laws about gun ownership. Put your money where your mouth is.
There are many stories coming out and retractions being made to correct some of the info. I cannot guarantee the accuracy of the following. One thing I am sure of is that I did not make it all up...
Here are a few bits of news. I will supply a source link if requested. I am multitasking between two blogs so bear with me... This will end the highlights until later.. a list of all the victims is due out within minutes..I will post that when it becomes available....
Sources and family members have confirmed that Victoria Leigh Soto, a first-grade teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School, who was among 26 people killed in a horrific shooting Friday at the school. Soto, 27, was a 2003 graduate of Stratford High School, reportedly shielded her first grade students from Adam Lanza's gunfire with her own body.
The one woman who was shot and survived "will be instrumental in this investigation," police spokesperson said. She is doing fine.
The principal of Sandy Hook Elementary School allegedly lunged at the gunman before she was fatally shot, reports say.
Dawn Hochsprung, who worked at the school for two years, was about to meet other administrators for a meeting when the gunman found a way into the building, an Associated Press report says. Hochsprung tried to stop him.
When asked if the principal is a hero, Jeff Capeci, chairman of Newtown's Legislative Council, said, "From what we know, it's hard to classify her as anything else."
First, media reported that the shooter's mother was a kindergarten teacher at Sandy Hook. Then she was reported to be a substitute teacher. Today the school superintendent said on the Today Show that she was NOT in the district database....though she could still be a substitute. So connection of shooter to school remains unclear.
A complete list of names of the 27 victims will be released to media within minutes, said H. Wayne Carver, Connecticut's chief medical examiner.
Folks, here is a list of the victims. There is also a video that I haven't had time to watch...
Names of victims in Connecticut school shooting released
Adam Lanza's mom avid gun collector
According to the above link his mother was an avid gun collector and visited shooting ranges. So that answers that question.
I agree with everything you list Tommy's mom. Especially the insurance.
Snoopy, I certainly think a conceal/carry permit should be revoked along with the gun if the person is stopped for drunk driving. That means a drunk is in possession of two deadly weapons. A gun and a car.
Insurance and higher taxes sound great don't they? Homeowners insurance, car insurance should have a question on it - "do you own a firearm of any kind" and then get adjusted higher accordingly.
The drawback to everything everyone of us say is criminals. Have you noticed, though, that none of the mass shootings in this country have been criminals?
Believe me the gun appreciating remark was a complete surprise to me. My ex husband collects everything he considers of value. When we divorced I only had his guns, stamps and coins evaluated by professionals in the field. He had invested (at that time) about 2000 in each. The stamps were worth 1500 because he hadn't stored them correctly at one time, the coins were worth 1800 because the price of silver was down at the time, but the guns had doubled in value. The gun dealer told me it was only because they were over 10 years old and had only been fired the day they were bought. (on a gun range). His hunting guns had not appreciated even though they didn't get fired much either lol.
Personally, I don't own a gun or even have one in my house. My daughter is bi-polar so I don't have anything stronger than ibuprophen in here either. If you have a child with mental health issues, you absolutely MUST live your life differently. My daughter is 38 now and I've just moved back in with her, but my policies have been in place for so long that it stayed a part of her life also while we were living alone. To me, even though his mother was a victim also, she was a contributor to this sad thing happening.
If I were one of the parents, I don't know if I could withstand the pain. The bodies of those murdered were still in the school building last night and could not be moved until the crime scene process was completed.
The solution for gun control? The states should require all gun owners to carry liability insurance. No insurance, revoke the license to own and provide a date certain to turn the gun(s)over to local law enforcement. No turnover, issue a warrant and punish by fine.
Conniefl~~thank you for the info. How about an intoxicated passenger in the vehicle and who is NOT the driver but has a conealed weapon on his person along with the proper permit? I will get this right yet, is it illegal to be in possession of a C&C, with a proper c&c permit, out in public while intoxicated? Said person being drunk but not disorderly? If I am not making any sense, just ignore the questions. lol
A semi-automatic bush master ?? gun plus two hand guns were found in the classroom with the deceased shooter. The shooter's uncle is a policeman in N.H. He is brother to the shooter's mother. The Uncle was scheduled to go on CNN to speak but due to uncontrolled emotions, he was unable to go on the air so a couple of his colleagues had to fill in for him.
Earlier reports that the shooter shot his young brother were incorrect. It has not been confirmed a gun was found in the mother's car. It will be a few days before we get the actual facts. What we know for sure is... 20 children and 6 adults are deceased because of the action of one rotten ^&%^$ and some guns.
O/T...Hillary Clinton fell and sustained a concussion. She has had the flu for a week, became dehydrated and apparently fainted...
LE has found evidence at the crime scene and in the shooter's home that is very beneficial to this case but they will not divulge what it is....
Break time...tea time..
Outstanding commentry once again Dave although I dont agree with you re the cullbabillity of the Mother .Obviously she enabled him she was his Mother an primery care giver thats her role in life.We cant be quick to judge her intentions an wether or not she maid it easy for Adam to get a hold of the weapons an ammo .Somehow I doubt it I beleive the opposite .
I read the comments here an maybe supporting news links but Im not following this on the M S M even in the UK its been the leading story..So we dont realy know how accsesable the guns where an to whom…For all we know said three weapons an ammo may have been under severe security as opposed to just lieing about easy to accsess by anyone takeing a fancy to go shooting…3 guns were there 4 family members? Mother Father an older Brother.Maybe it was set up to be Adam as the only one deneid acssess to the weapons without a responcable adult supervision.Who knows its all supposition untill we get to see some factuall reports.I f he was indeed deneid acsess to the ammo and guns .Theres numerous ways he could comprimise the security rangeing from brute strength to stealth to torture to obtain keys or combination code or botth.We cant just assume that thease people were careless with there weapons…If when all the circumstances or as many possable to peice together a likley scenario .If theres any blame or fingers to point Thats the time to do it with cool heads not clouded by the fog of greif or tainted with rightous anger Lets not forget an lest we forget there must be lessons leared from this Schoolhouse /Those childrens screams of terror the surviveours horror at witnessing there freinds bloody lifeless bodys..Let them teach us let them be martryd to a cause that will grow an grow.This is not a butterfly gently flapppping her wings in the jungles an mistyy forrrests of Amazon .Wich causes a chain of events leading to a hurricane the other side of the globe.No this is a Tsunami of ENOUGH is enough something has to be done to curtail this gun culture /fashion/Fallic Symbol/Cowboy mentality that some Americans do indeed worship at the alter of Guns .You need look no further than the glut of reality shows featureing guns in the states.They got reality competition shootout type shows .Theyve got reality shows think its called sons of guns .Basicly a Father an Son Gun manufacture /Customise buisness .Every thing from pistols up to tanks.Your allowed to own a tank becuase the law gives you the right to bear arms.Not just guns but arms wich could in theory be a submarine armed with a nuke missile.Its way to much an not what the Original signers of the admennmant envisioned..The right for the common American to raise up some minute men an defend the local small outposts from raids from enemeys could be British or Mexican whatever thats not the issue..Thats the reason the Founding Fathers wanted citizens have the right to own an maintain a weapon A second milita army for emergancys..Those reasons are long gone an been reduntant since the end of the Civil War.United States of America has been a powerfull Nation for hundred s of years .With a strong proffesinal Army An Navy .Powerfull reserve force as well as regular army .An even the ability to draft an arm civilians into the Army if deemed nessesery or perhaps the draft is ended now ?However either way the need for American citizens to bear arms to help with invaders an I mean Countrys invaders not home invaders .Those days are long gone.
Yes, Snoopy, I personally believe if someone is drunk in a car driving or not and in posession of a fire arm they should have the gun taken away and be arrested for endangering the welfare of others. A deadly weapon be it car or gun is a deadly weapon and shouldn't be in the hands of drunks, druggies, or other mental impairments.
I found this on FindLaw. It explains a bit more about the second ammendment and why it no longer means just that we can bear arms and raise militia as it was originally written. Find Law Second Ammendment It comes down to the right to defend yourself.
The problem with this and all amendments is that they have been fiddled with, amended, and so forth. The Constitution as it was written has been amended so many times it bears little resemblence to the original.
I was thinking tonight that when something like this happens the families should start suing the gun manufacturers themselves. Take it out of the NRA's and legislative hands. It worked with the cigarette manufacturers, why not with gun companies? The companies themselves are liable because they pose no restrictions on who can and can not buy their weapons. Yeah I know it's unrealistic because it would be like suing Chrysler because someone used their car to plow through a group of people. But we need to do something to circumvent the NRA and it's flunkies in Congress.
Conniefl~~thanks for your response. I think more metal goes into the manufacturing of guns than Chrysler cars. Guns, ammo and permits are big money makers and lots of coppers end up in Uncle Sam's piggy bank. The bottom line seems to be the almighty dollar. I would love to see the victim's families go after the gun manufacturers. Yes, some did have success going after the tobacco companies.
I lifted the following from a comment at Leatherman's..they did not supply a source but it looks quite authentic...
16 mass shootings...90 killed..2012
February 22, 2012—Five people were killed in at a Korean health spa in Norcross, Georgia, when a man got into an argument and opened fire inside the facility.
February 26, 2012—Multiple gunmen began firing into a nightclub crown in Jackson, Tennessee, killing one person and injuring 20 others.
February 27, 2012—Three students at Chardon High School in rural Ohio were killed when a classmate opened fire.
March 8, 2012—Two people were killed and seven wounded at a psychiatric hospital in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, when a gunman entered the hospital with two semiautomatic handguns and began firing.
March 31, 2012—A gunman opened fire on a crowd of mourners at a North Miami, Florida, funeral home, killing two people and injuring 12 others.
April 2, 2012—A 43-year-old former student at Oikos University in Oakland, California, walked into his former school and killed seven people, “execution-style.” Three people were wounded.
April 6, 2012—Two men went on a deadly shooting spree in Tulsa, Oklahoma, shooting black men at random in an apparently racially motivated attack. Three men died and two were wounded.
May 29, 2012—A man in Seattle, Washington, opened fire in a coffee shop and killed five people and then himself.
July 9, 2012—At a soccer tournament in Wilmington, Delaware, three people were killed, including a 16-year-old player and the event organizer, when multiple gunmen began firing shots, apparently targeting the organizer.
July 20, 2012—James Holmes enters a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises and opens fire with a semi-automatic weapon; twelve people are killed and fifty-eight are wounded.
August 5, 2012—A white supremacist and former Army veteran shot six people to death inside a Sikh temple in suburban Milwaukee, Wisconsin, before killing himself.
August 14, 2012—Three people were killed at Texas A&M University when a 35-year-old man went on a shooting rampage; one of the dead was a police officer.
September 27, 2012—A 36-year-old man who had just been laid off from Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, Minnesota, entered his former workplace and shot five people to death, and wounded three others before killing himself.
October 21, 2012—45-year-old Radcliffe Frankin Haughton shot three women to death, including his wife, Zina Haughton, and injured four others at a spa in Brookfield, Wisconsin, before killing himself.
December 11, 2012—A 22-year-old began shooting at random at a mall near Portland, Oregon, killing two people and then himself.
December 14, 2012—One man, and possibly more, murders a reported twenty-six people at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, including twenty children, before killing himself.
Those beautiful children. Why?? I just don't understand what is wrong with people.
It has been a long day... all I can think of is..."an ounce of prevention".... in order to even begin to accomplish preventing this from happening in the future, we must try to strive for the answer to 'why?'
There are so many false reports coming out via news outlets. Then we have all the rumors that this Adam had every known condition from autism, peronality disorder, Asperger syndrome and lastly, he was bi-polar. I would diagnose him as a snot nosed rich kid who had a temper tantrum because he could not get his own way for some minor thing. Maybe he wanted to borrow his Mom's car and she refused so...... Since I am not qualified to have made that diagnosis, consider it hogwash and stash it in the rumor file.
I think our best bet is to hope that Newtown LE will hold a few pressers and give us some facts. I appreciate all the contributions here today and look forward to more tomorrow.
I will leave you with the following tidbit, thanks goes to Fred Leatherman...nite nite..
Driving a motor vehicle on public roads is a privilege and not a right. Same with flying an airplane. Since both activities are privileges, they can and are regulated by the state and federal governments.
A very good timeline on Friday's events:
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-timeline-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,1878564.story?page=1
Thursday night I was able to get home a little early from work. Hubby was watching TV, catching up on the Oregon mall horror. He says to me, what will it take to ban these d@mn assault weapons? So, I told him about Dunblane, that we would need our very own Dunblane, with the deaths of multiple innocent small children. THAT might do it, I said.
So now we have our own Dunblane, and if NOTHING changes in this gun-fetishistic culture of ours then their lives and their parent's tears are completely wasted.
The argument many gun owners are going to support is they want to "own" without any government agency knowing they "own". Their argument will be ... "if the guns are licensed by the government then the government will be able to take away our/my gun at any time." (or something similar)
Their basic FEAR of their government prohibits them from rational thought.
Thanks, Karen C for this link...
Timeline of Friday's events
Karen C~~there is quite a lot of information and videos at the link you provided. I just checked it out and I can guarantee if anyone watches the videos, they will not end up dry eyed. It also shows a couple pics of Adam's mother.
It certainly looks like Adam was in a fit of uncontrolled rage. He shot his way into the school. He was not let in. The children were each shot multiple times, some as many as eleven. His goal was to kill as many as he possibly could and then took his own life when the police moved in.
Now will the Gov't finally do something to end this carnage? What the hell is it going to take for them to wake up?
Snoopy- Now, THAT was a heck of a list you had above with the various shootings.
Folks, go take a quick look at HuffingtonPost.com- quickly, as it changes all day long. Right below Senator Feinstein's pic is a subtitle- there have been SEVEN gun incidents making the news just today/last night- one dude with 47 of them in Indiana at a school, one at a mall in California, one in Vegas, 3 people shot at a hospital in Alabama.... some dead, some wounded, some shooters stymied or talked down. Is this a p#nis guy thing, or what? Do we women have to pull a Lysistrata, or will we get shot for trying? I'm not really kidding here. What DOES it take?
Video and read more here... thanks, Karen C
WASHINGTON -- In the wake of Friday's mass killing at an elementary school in Connecticut, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said Sunday that she plans to introduce an assault weapons ban bill on the first day of the new Congress.
"I'm going to introduce in the Senate, and the same bill will be introduced in the House -- a bill to ban assault weapons," Feinstein said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
The shocking murder of 26 children and adults in Newtown, Conn., on Friday has sparked a national discussion on gun control, with mostly Democratic legislators saying laws need to be tightened.
President Bill Clinton signed an assault weapons ban into law in 1994, but the measure expired a decade later. Democrats have tried several times since then to renew the ban, without success.
Feinstein called for the ban to be renewed after the mass shooting in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater that killed 12 people and injured 58 others.
Dianne Feinstein To Introduce Assault Weapons Ban On First Day Of Congress
I just finished watching a presser held by Newtown, LE. Now let's see how my memory is. Okay, the assault bush master was the gun he used the most. Adam took his own life with one of the two handguns that were found with his remains. Another rifle was found in his mother's car. He had several magazines for the bush master, not sure about the hand guns. Unknown which firearm he used to kill his mother but it is ruled a homicide. Question-did Adam's mother have all that ammo stored at her home??
LE feels they are gathering info which may lead them to find a motive for the shootings. There was a bomb scare called in to a church in Newtown today. Anyone, if found interfering with the investigation into the shooting (including the media), will be charged and prosecuted accordingly. President Obama is on his way to Newtown and will attend a vigil held this evening. It will be televised on CNN.
I think that covers most of it....
I think every psycho in the nation is playing copycat....
Von I. Meyer Arrested: Indiana School Threatened By Man Owning 47 Guns
Do some of these idiots think the world is due to end Dec 21st and have all gone beserk?
St. Rose Of Lima Threat: Man Reportedly Called Newtown Church To Say 'I'm Coming To Kill'
Dave, I am packing up my little pail and shovel and heading back to my sandbox. I hope some of you took a bit of time out of your busy lives to watch the Vigil tonight where President Obama was in attendance. Here is one from Dec 14th...
Your President
Goodnight...
Dave, Your post is exceptionally well expressed, not unexpected, because they always are.
What has happened now in Connecticut has b-e-e-n happening, this unacceptable slaughter is bringing them to be increasingly worse. Seems like there is a competitiveness in one to the next. What can "I" do that will be "greater" than the last. It takes planning. How can we know that Adam had been in planning. Not for publicity, he killed himself! I find this mentality so utterly different than that of George Zimmerman, who lives for pride of doing God's work! it seems Adam knew exactly where to hit to do the damage he intended.
I do know that OUR TERRORISM WITHIN within is greater than what we fear from outside. What's going on when our armed forces have lessened to protect our country from outside attacks while our citizens are given access to deadly weapons by which we can kill each other, armed with hand guns, automatics and the like.......
There are many many who could have guns all around them, and NEVER pick one up to kill with. so what is the answer to an act such as Adam Lanza did? He is dead, his mother is dead, nothing from them to help. Maybe his brother but doubt it because Adam's brain was his own and I read a complicated one. Should Adam be considered a MAN because he was of age 20? Adult maturity does not come with years, some never reach maturity. Using the same thoughts I wondered about CA, GZ, others, now Adam Lanza, was he on medications of some sort. Had he been called "names" . Had he been BULLIED, belittled by peers and perhaps at home, that he was not as "UP" to standard as those children he chose to kill. We can say no, none of that, but maybe he thought so. I don't know. However I can assure that if there were prescribed drugs Adam may have been on that "some" of these prescribed drugs can and do affect different adults,...children, differently, particularly on and off usage. My intent is not to word anything for excuse, but these happenings are not "just a happening" there has to be something deeper, being overlooked in all of them, as "we" tend to forget in between each, the underlying problem is not being found, and I don't know for sure, if even looked for. Does anyone recall if we had these numerous slayings during the initial influx of Marijuana use in this country? I don't recall any. (Charlie Manson, ok) horror!! His followers, THEY, I would call IDIOTS! to have allowed a man to direct them to commit murder for his pleasure. CULT!
Be it mental, lifestyle, drugs, abuse, bullying. Children, infants, toddlers, teens are dying not only in the way of Adam Lanza, by perverts, parents, and other children, self appointed-heroism and other while our justice system is filed with law men who in defending killers, will stretch beyond justice, include harassment, cover-up, altering photos, selling autographs..other? We can be included at anytime, anywhere, in our own communities and homes. Children are not safe, neither are adults as the unexpected is always somewhere, ready to strike. In some cases "stalk and then strike". Why is pre-meditation not a consideration more often? Parents of the slaughtered children have stated they do not HATE Adam, they are not mad but no doubt in my heart they HATE the act that took their babies.... and adults. I do also HATE the action Adam took.
New Puppy: Thank you for sharing your very thought provoking comment. I hardly dare put the TV on, because I can't stop crying when I do.
I heard that this afternoon they are going to have the funeral service for the first two little six year old boys. There will be so many more to follow.
My heart breaks, but I haven't a clue where an answer might lie.
@ Merrynade Dave: Your new banner is great.
BTW, Don Lemon of CNN, just did a smackdown on-air on Carol (Forget her last name)- the whiney-voiced AM anchor over there. They've been backing-and-forthing all morning (he's Live in Newtown of course), and she keeps returning conversation over to mental health issues, and I mean relentlessly. You'd think she worked for Fox (Oh, and Fox hadn't broken into their regular insipid programming on Friday by 3:30pm, HOURS after everyone else had- that's when I officially gave up on them ever being an actual news organization again- maybe they covered it at 6pm?! IDK!)- and Lemon couldn't take it anymore and pushed way back- mental health being a secondary issue here, etc. It was really something to see.
New puppy
Excellent comment. I respectfully add,I'm upset that a mother knowing her child was different felt it necessary to take up target shooting and had not one but several guns in the home. I don't understand that and there is nothing that can explain it to me. Their home was set back from the road,did it have an alarm system? Why would this mother feel the need to have so many guns? For protection? Protection from what? It's been stated Adam Lanza broke into the school through a window. Did he have a plan? We'll never know and frankly I'm glad he ended his life. We won't be subjected to all knids of stories about him like the stuff that's out there about James Holmes,who claims he doesn't know why he's in jail. The murder and abuse of children is rampant in this country,and too often there is no arrest or punishment. My way of dealing is with prayer for the victims their families,those who minister to them and all those like ourselves who find all of these acts appalling.
As always JMHO
The Westboro Baptist Church, the controversial group known for protesting outside funerals of slain U.S. service members, announced that it will picket a vigil for the victims of Friday's Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the second-deadliest school shooting in American history.
Shirley Phelps-Roper, a spokesperson for the group and, like most members of the organization, a relative of the group's founder, Fred Phelps, announced on Twitter on Saturday the group's plan "to sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment."
It is unclear when the group plans to protest, although a tweet from Margie Phelps implied that it would be during a vigil that will be attended by President Barack Obama on Sunday evening.
Members of the Westboro Baptist Church say that America is being punished for its acceptance of gays and lesbians. In recent days, Phelps family members have sent tweets about the Connecticut shooting that have said "God sent the shooter."
Clipped from the Huffington Post.
This is a disgrace and NO christian Bible based group would have anthing to do with this group.
Tommy's Mom- Regarding the Mom and guns; I, too, was flummoxed at the knowledge that a suburban CT. mom-person would have a thing like a Bushmaster around the house. That was until I read that she'd been raised in New Hampshire. Ah, clarity!
Karen C it wasnt very long ago that a gunman went into an Ammish School house an executed all the females schoolkids an there teacher i i r c,,,That event had no impact on gun control.
Oh, I remember that one well, Ecossie- I hoped then. But that was "only" five deaths (I can't believe I'm even writing that). I think we need things in the double-digits to make an impact.
Okay again I don't own a gun or have any desire to,and so this is news to me. People can purchase guns at gun shows with no bacvkground check? That's insane. The NRA supporters say if we ban guns only criminals will have guns,but there have been no mass shootings by criminals. Those are all done in nice,white neighborhoods. Supporters say it's a breakdown in our mental health system,really? The mind is many faceted,how would any system learn what might make one snap?
I just read where one of victims,six year old Noah Pozner will be buried today. Noah's twin sister, Arielle, was one of the students who survived when her teacher hid her class in the bathroom during the attack. Now I'm really crying.
Jack Pinto is the other child to be buried today.
After hearing that Jack was a huge New York Giants fan, Giants wide receiver Victor Cruz wrote "R.I.P. Jack Pinto," "Jack Pinto, my hero" and "This one is 4 U!" on his cleats and gloves before playing the Atlanta Falcons Sunday afternoon. Cruz tweeted photos of his tribute shortly before the game, along with his condolences.
Cruz told reporters he spoke to the family Saturday after hearing Jack was a Giants fan. Cruz was told the family planned to bury Jack in Cruz's No. 80 Giants jersey.
"There are no words that can describe the type of feeling you get when a kid idolizes you so much that, you know, unfortunately they put him in a casket with your jersey on," Cruz said Sunday.
"I also spoke to an older brother and he was distraught as well. I told him to stay strong and I was going to do whatever I can to honor him," Cruz said. "He was fighting tears and could barely speak to me."
Cruz said he plans to give the gloves he wore during the game to the boy's family, and spend some time with them.
Like many parents holding their children a little tighter in wake of the school shooting, Cruz told reporters his 11-month-old daughter, Kennedy, slept in his bed Friday night.
"We slept together that night," he said, "and it was a good feeling. It was one that I cherished."
I'm done now I can't seem to stop crying.
Looking at the aerial news footage of the school building, specifically the door where he shot his way through, bullet-proof glass may have slowed his egress down a bit. A locked door is no good at all if two man-sized panels of unprotected window is right there.