From the FRYE pan into the FYRE? Part I
Saturday, February 19, 2011 at 4:58PM Next month, two motions filed by the defense will be heard by Judge Perry. Because they are very important Frye issues, and of extreme importance to the defense, this post will focus on the motion about chloroform evidence. It will be in two parts.
PART I - The Frye Pan
Casey’s defense recently filed two Frye motions. The date reflects when they were filed with the Clerk of Courts. Both are stamped 12/30/2010.
MOTION TO EXCLUDE UNRELIABLE EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO FRYE, OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE (CHLOROFORM)
and
MOTION TO EXCLUDE UNRELIABLE EVIDENCE (Plant or root growth evidence)
The state filed motions to strike, but today, I will just focus on the issue over chloroform. The other motions (defense and state) will come later, because in this particular one, there is much to discern, including a few errors. I will get to them, but first of all, what, exactly, is a Frye motion/hearing? Frye motions are generally held in limine, which means they are made before a trial starts. The judge then decides whether certain evidence may or may not be introduced to the jury. The Frye standard is a test to determine the admissibility of scientific evidence in legal proceedings. This standard comes from the case Frye v. United States (293 F. 1013 (DC Cir 1923) District of Columbia Circuit Court in 1923. Frye v. U.S. was a groundbreaking case that argued the admissibility of polygraph tests as evidence in a trial. Today, it’s designed to prevent both sides from unfairly exploiting expert testimony. Its intent is to assure that expert evidence is reliable.
In its motion, the defense cites Florida Statutes 90.401, 90.402 and 90.403, Amendments 5 and 14 of the U.S. Constitution, and Article 1, Section 9 of the Florida Constitution. Let’s take a look:
- 90.401 Definition of relevant evidence. — Relevant evidence is evidence tending to prove or disprove a material fact.
- 90.402 Admissibility of relevant evidence. — All relevant evidence is admissible, except as provided by law.
- 90.403 Exclusion on grounds of prejudice or confusion. — Relevant evidence is inadmissible if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of issues, misleading the jury, or needless presentation of cumulative evidence. This section shall not be construed to mean that evidence of the existence of available third-party benefits is inadmissible.
- Amendment V — No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
- Amendment XIV — All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
- Article 1, Section 9 — Due process.—No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, or be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense, or be compelled in any criminal matter to be a witness against oneself.
The first two Florida Statutes, I would imagine, were cited by the defense for the purpose of propping up the third, which questions the admissibility of evidence that may prejudice or confuse the jury. In the case of this motion, it’s chloroform evidence found in the trunk of Casey’s car the defense is questioning, specifically carpet and air samples.
After the preliminary introduction of the motion, the defense moved on to FACTS about the case:
FACTS
- Miss Anthony is charged with First Degree Murder. The State of Florida has announced it’s [sic] intent to seek the ultimate penalty of death.
- The Oak Ridge National Laboratory conducted tests on carpet samples and air samples taken from a vehicle (Pontiac Sunfire) driven by Miss Anthony at or near the time of the disappearance of her daughter Caylee Anthony.
- Dr. Arvad Vass reported in his preliminary and final reports that there were unusually high levels of chloroform found on the carpet samples taken from the Pontiac Sunfire.
- Dr. Vass additionally states that the levels of chloroform are much higher than normally found in decompositional events.
- This information prompted investigators to search the Anthony family computer for searches of chloroform, which yielded positive results for “chloroform” and “how to make chloroform.” The hysteria begins.
Before I delve too deeply into the motion, remember the defense cited the above as FACTS, not assumptions or speculations made by Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Where it completely strayed from the truth is the final statement of fact, “The hysteria begins.” From there, it turned into a giant smoke screen. The defense went into, well, a defense mode, which is what is expected.
FACTS PART II: UNCOVERING THE FRAUD
In FACTS PART II: UNCOVERING THE FRAUD, law enforcement was accused of intentionally leaking information to the local and national media prior to “any official reports through the natural course of discovery.” I will acknowledge learning of the death smell from the news sometime in August of 2008, so there may be some merit to this particular aspect of the complaint. However, this information would have been released anyway, so it was not, by any means, an attempt to “either satisfy their own vanity or poison any potential jury pool” as the defense stated. Today, it’s two-and-a-half years later, and a fair jury will be seated in May come hell or high water.
What puzzles me at this point of the motion is how the defense contradicts itself. In FACTS PART II, they wrote that they traveled to Tennessee and took depositions from Dr. Arpad Vass and Dr. Marcus Wise. Both testified that the tests on the carpet sample were “qualitative” and not “quantitative.” One way to simplify this is to say it’s the motion in the ocean, not the size of the ship; but at the same time, no one is going to sail around the world in a canoe. That’s not to say flat out that the SS Casey is sinking, but it’s definitely listing. The smokesreen in this example comes from the statements that, “It should be noted that the Oak Ridge National Laboratory also took carpet samples from two Pontiac Sunfires… [and] one of the sample cars they tested ALSO had chloroform in the sample,” and “Dr. Vass, who is the author of the ORNL report is NOT a forensic chemist.” In my opinion, one not need be a forensic chemist to analyze chemical breakdowns. Dr. Vass could readily make analytical conclusions from tests of all kinds, and my guess would be that plenty of them have nothing to do with crime. Industrial spies, for example, have been tackling the secret recipe of KFC chicken and McDonald’s Special Sauce for years and years. That’s not forensics, but it takes real life chemists to break into the “Da Vinci Codes” of restaurant chain trade secrets. Who knows, maybe Dr. Vass could find out what’s really in Taco Bell’s beef. Now, that’s something that matters. Of course, it’s a civil matter, not criminal.
In the motion, the defense noted that the FBI Chemistry Unit in Quantico, Virginia, had tested four samples of the carpet and two of the four were “consistent with chloroform.” Dr. Michael Richenbach, Ph.D, told the defense during his deposition that “consistent with” means that the presumptive test results were positive, but the conclusive tests were not. Aside from all of the scientific mumbo jumbo, of which I will spare you the boredom, the point being made by the defense is, in a nutshell, that the results from ORNL and the FBI were different. Therefore, the results should be tossed out. In my opinion, the most consistent point to be made about this case to date has been the consistency of the two presiding judges, and ultimately, Judge Perry will leave it up to both sides to argue and let the jury take it from there. Laws around the country not only protect cross examinations, they encourage them, and this case is no different. The defense will have ample opportunity to shred the state’s evidence to pieces.
Here’s another interesting smokescreen, but I do not think the State, nor the judge, will fall for it. The motion makes it clear that “the other items tested by the FBI for chloroform (baby doll, steering wheel cover, and child car seat) all yielded negative results.” True, but the cab of Casey’s vehicle was separated from the trunk by a back seat. How much seepage should there have been? Police officers have been trained for years to detect the odor of marijuana in a car, and I’m talking about fresh, not smoked. It does have a pungent odor unlike anything else. While standing by the driver’s door, window down, would the officer smell it if it was tucked away in the trunk? No, probably not, but the nervousness of the occupants would be a sure sign that something’s not right. How much chloroform would it take to be overwhelming? I mean, it’s not even close to the smell of decomposition. Talk about pungent odors.
COMPUTER SEARCHES
Law enforcement ascertained that someone inside of the Anthony home searched for chloroform and chloroform recipes three months prior to Caylee’s disappearance. This is why it’s so important for the defense to crush this evidence, along with the air and carpet samples. This is highly incriminating. The defense wrote:
- Any forensic computer examiner including the ones in this case (Sandra Cawn and Kevin Stenger) will testify that you can never determine who ran what searches on a computer, especially when the computer is NOT password protected.
Okay, in and of itself, that may be true, but more about that in a couple of seconds. Incidentally, Cawn and Stenger work for OCSO and I think they know a thing or two about computer forensics.
- The computer in question was in a “guest bedroom” and all family members not only had access to the computer, but also testified that they used the computer as well as guests who visited their home.
- Law enforcement cannot ascertain whether Miss Anthony was even home at the time the searches [were] run much less on the computer.
Now, had Judge Perry been born in the 19th century, the defense might be able to pull the wool over his eyes, but he wasn’t; nor was he born yesterday. Yes, of course the computer could have been accessed by anyone, but it is inside the Anthony home, and it’s a desktop, not a portable laptop, which could be moved around the house. By utilizing something simple, like a process of elimination, investigators can sift through a myriad of things, including time sheets. March 21, 2008, was a Friday - a work day. What time of day did the searches occur? I’ll bet you OCSO knows. If Cindy, George and Lee were not inside the house, it incriminates Casey, and with no other source, like a friend who has yet to come forward, her ship is really listing.
Here’s something the defense wrote that struck me as peculiar:
- The Oak Ridge National Laboratories (Some reports erroneously called them “body farm” perhaps for more shock appeal) reported unusually high amounts of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony’s car.
What I would like to do is take to task the remark about erroneously calling ORNL a Body Farm for more shock appeal. In my opinion, the defense is trying to directly infer that the term Body Farm was something new and never used before. I assure you, that is not the truth. I can tell you I heard about the Body Farm long before I heard about the Anthony case and, as a matter of fact, thanks to my Gainesville friend, nika1, I am in the possession of a book titled, BEYOND THE BODY FARM, written by Dr. Bill Bass and Jon Jefferson. So what, you say? Yes, so what. The book was published in 2007, a year before Casey’s defense knew who she was. Jefferson & Bass (as Jefferson Bass) have written four novels about the Body Farm. The first one, Carved in Bone, was released in January 2006. In 2003, Bass & Jefferson released their first scientific book about it, Death’s Acre. To go further back in time, crime writer Patricia Cornwell published The Body Farm in 1994. She drew her inspiration from Dr. Bass and his work. As a matter of fact, he is recognized as the father of the Body Farm, long before Jose Baez was practicing law.
Why did I title this post From the Frye pan into the Fyre, you ask? Even the prosecution misspells…
MOTION TO STRIKE DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO EXCLUDE UNRELIABLE EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO FYRE (CHLOROFORM)
In the second part of this article about chloroform evidence admission, I will delve into the scientific and legal aspects:
PART II - The FYRE
Dave Knechel | tagged Dr. Michael Richenbach, Frye v. United States, Jon Jefferson, Patricia Cornwell | in Anthropology, Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, Cheney Mason, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Cindy Anthony, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Dr. Arpad Vass, Dr. Bill Bass, Dr. Marcus Wise, FBI, Forensics, George Anthony, In Limine, Jeff Ashton, Lee Anthony, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, Motion in Limine, OCSO, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (87)
Interesting, Dave. That defense would not have had knowledge of the body farm being called The Body Farm. I personally think it is a very cold title and it misrepresents it's purpose. When I think of farm, I think of producing something. Maybe that is the intent, they produce facts?
I have not seen it mentioned that Casey's car was new when she first acquired it. If it was a used car owned by someone before her. Couldn;t there be claim that the chloroform could have already been in the car. I'm sure that if the car had an odor of decomposition prior to purchase it would not have been purchased. A used car, having been cleaned before resale may have had some chemical used for cleaning. Cindy or George could have searched for chloroform on the computer because they had suspected Casey of putting Caylee to sleep with something even before the last day they saw her alive.
What channels or how many and whose hands does a skeletal remains pass through before ending up at The Body Farm
The defense probably did know it was called the Body Farm, but skirted around it, New Puppy. I find it hard to believe that someone like Mason, quite death penalty qualified, would not know. If all else fails, play stupid, I guess.
Chloroform will evaporate in a short amount of time, especially if left to air out, but residue would be left in the carpet if it came into contact with it. It is my understanding that the car initially belonged to G&C, who handed it down to Lee, who passed it on to Casey. It was a family affair. As for the Internet searches, if Casey was the only one home at the time of those searches and no friend comes forward to take responsibility, it's just another brick in the wall of circumstantial evidence.
The Body Farm doesn't discriminate. It accepts cadavers from any stage of death. Even animals. Pigs are similar to human remains. The Body Farm lets nature take over. It's a fascinating study, but not one I would want to spend my life working at.
Dave~~has any evidence from The Body Farm been introduced and used in a trial to date? If so, what did it pertain to?
Is the defense questioning the methods The Body Farm used to test the air quality?
I need these answers in order to continue with comments that make a bit of sense. TIA
Okay, here we go with a link to the dates for the Frye Hearings:
Frye Hearings March 23, 24, and 25, 2011
Thanks *Dave
I've missed your blog!
I thought Cindy (tried) to admit that it was she, who did the chloroform searches on the community/house computer. Something about trying to look up something else but spelled it wrong and......... *poof*......... up pops a chloroform search. Hate when that happens. :)
And 20/20 or Dateline did a special on the "body farm" many years ago. It was extremely interesting and the man in charge at the time was very passionate about his work and the crimes it has helped to solve. I can remember watching it and Casey Anthony was not even heard of then.
One thing I noticed in the motion is that when choloform was detected in the trunk lining and the info came back from the body farm, I don't believe puter forensics rushed right out with a warrant to seize the desk top computer. I thought the searches for chloroform, how to make chloroform, acetate, neck breaking and shovel etc were found when the puter was, as routine, taken in to find any info that may lead them to a missing Caylee.
When the report came back from the body farm, LE put two and two together. There was no great hype to seize the puter because of the chloroform... I could be wrong.
Diana~~thank you! You answered one of the questions that I asked Dave. So it is the way that the body farm tested the air quality and found the high rate of cholorform that the defense is questioning.
Very informative article Dave!! I recently read Carved In Bone....It was great.
Dave: Great post. I'm a Patricia Cornwell fan, (love her books), so that is where I first heard of the Body Farm.
I appreciate the fact that it is the job of the Defense to attack and destroy, or weaken, any evidence that is in the hands of the State; however, the evidence of chloroform always strikes me as a two edged sword.
Suppose the Judge were to order that the evidence of chloroform will not be allowed in--the State still has the duct tape.
My point being, if I were on the jury, I would rather believe that she first drugged her baby and then applied the duct tape.
If I were made to believe, that the woman who stands accused of this heinous crime, actually placed duct tape over the mouth of a conscious child and watched while her child took her last breath, I'm quite sure that I would vote for the maximum punishment allowable by law.
If, on the other hand, I felt that the State proved that chloroform was used first, I would find this to be a 'softer death'; and, therefore, would feel a lesser sentence should be applied.
I don't know if I've made my point understandable; but, maybe the Defense should not try too hard at the Frye Hearings.
Snoopy - The Body Farm has been called on from time to time to solve crimes. A Mississippi family was found moldering in their home in December 1993. Work on the Body Farm helped authorities to convict a relative in the deaths, which were determined to have taken place in mid-November. The FBI utilizes the Body Farm, too. Every February, agents go there to dig for bodies that "farm" workers have prepared to simulate crime scenes.
If the defense questions the testing, it won't work. I will be writing about that aspect next, but the state did say the test instruments used in the detection of chloroform have been routinely accepted as evidence in courts.
THANK YOU for straightening out the dates!
Diana??? Is that you???!!! I lost my breath suddenly and broke out in a sweat. GREAT TO SEE YOU!
I remember Cindy saying that to the media when she was questioned. I do not know for certain that she testified to that under oath, but no matter, time cards will dispel that quickly if there's any question. LE knows the answer.
I also remember watching a show on TV, but I wouldn't have guessed which one it was. Yes, it was many years ago.
You know, how could someone misspell a word and up pops chloroform? I doubt if she was looking for the chemical composition of pool chlorine.
Dave, the reason I asked the question is because the defense was humming and hawing about The Body Farm being new and only in operation for a few years. Thanks for your answer.
Nan11, you are amazing in what you said about the 'soft death' compared to a heinous crime, if Caylee wasn't induced with a drug before the application of the tape.
Cindy's mentioned in her state deposition that she was looking up the word....chlorophyll because her dogs were sick and she thought it may be something in the grass they ate.
Chlorophyll is the green pigment in plants that harnesses the sun's energy in photosynthesis. Chlorophyll performs metabolic functions in plants such as respiration and growth.
Ahh, nan11, you're a big fan of Cornwell. Well, that's good.
There is so much overwhelming circumstantial evidence in this case, it will be a steep road the defense must climb during the trial. I understand what you mean by a softer death. Most people can't imagine a mother murdering her own child, let alone in such a heinous way the state paints it. We will see. I think this defense should be happy if it can save her from the DP.
Thank you for the nice compliment. I got my dates confused, but Snoopy straightened me out due to your efforts.
Hi Dave! I'm glad to see you covering a subject that for me was never a strong point for the prosectution. I understand what you're saying above, but unless there is strong scientific evidence proving a pattern that Casey used chloroform to knock Caylee out, or used it to subdue Caylee before she killed Caylee, then I don't see how this evidence or lack thereof is going to help the State convince a jury that chloroform played an specific role in Caylee's life and death. Chloroform is one of those compounds that can come from any number of chemical combinations. Even if it could be proven that Casey was the one who researched chloroform on the web, it would still have to be proven that she did in fact go so far as to mix it and then use it on Caylee. If I recall correctly, chloroform could easily just be a by-product of chlorine from a pool. For me the defense could successfully cast reasonable doubt in this area. As I said, I need more clear-cut scientific evidence to tie the chloroform to Casey and that she used it on Caylee. Death smell in the trunk - yes. Chloroform and Casey - iffy. I have followed this case from the beginning and this is the one area that I have never felt was strong enough for the State to persue. JMO
Oh, is that what it was? Chlorophyll? Big difference. I just looked up chlorophyll and didn't see anything for chloroform.
Dave, great post! I think that JP is going to let this come into the trial. It has been around for awhile and isn't new. Nan11, good point about your soft kill comment. I hope during the trial that they can make this scientific testimony somewhat interesting so that it doesn't put the jury to sleep. Sometimes if they don't make it interesting to listen to it becomes boring. Personally, I would find this body farm stuff very interesting to listen to. This is just one more piece of the puzzle that makes it all come together.
Hi, nymima! I think the real issue at this point is whether or not the judge will allow the admission of the evidence. The defense is trying to keep it out. If it's allowed, and I see no reason why it wouldn't be, then it's up to both sides; one to prove it and the other to debunk it.
If it's allowed, it's not just about using chloroform, it's also because it's a byproduct of death and decomp. True, it's not much that's generated, but it adds to the rest of the decomp in the trunk. If the defense can stifle the state about the chloroform, it will still have a tough time negating the rest of the decomp found in that trunk.
Personally, I think the judge will allow the evidence and let the jury decide what it wants to but into.
Time for COPS!
IIRC, when the first report came out from the body farm, they stated that the chloroform was much higher than is present in the normal rate of decomposition. The levels were that high, they said a child would have had to ingest cholorform over a substantial period of time to produce such a high level.
Thank you, Mary Jo. I like your segue. You think the judge will allow the chloroform evidence but hope it doesn't put the jury to sleep. Maybe the state can find a willing person to be subjected to a chloroform test. I would be willing - all in the name of justice, of course.
I find it very interesting, too.
Thank you, countrynanny!!! You almost got lost in moderation, but I'm trying to keep my eyes open for stray comments. You read Carved in Bone? Great, perhaps you can tell us about it sometime.
How can this still be called "junk science"? This body farm has been there for 29 years. They simulate death in all areas even car trunks. Bodies are donated and they are studied in all stages of decomp. I think I would believe that after this many years, they know the real results.
Dave~~in the name of justice, you would submit to being induced in a semi comatose state with chloroform? They would have to shake you awake before they started the procedure. LOL
In the name of injustice, I would have to pen you , Rip Van Wrinkle...
I forgot to thank you for this great article... I just said I forgot to, I didn't say I was going to.
Dave, as usual this is a great post! When I first started reading it I thought I was going to need a map and list to keep everything straight.BUT, as per your usual writing style you put it down in an easy to comprehend style,.
When I read about the "soft kill" that nan11 wrote about it suddenly struck me how Caylee spent her last minutes on earth. It almost gave me a pain in the chest. Her words were so vivid and succinct that I almost felt like I was watching it in my mind. I think this is the type of testimony that will stick in the jury's collective craw. This information will ferment in their minds and should bring about the true "Justice for Caylee".
Hi, Margaret - It's only junk science when sitting on the other side of the fence. I wonder how many prosecutors argued for it over the years until they went into private practice as ciminal defense attorneys. Then, the shoe is on the other foot.
Of course this is scientific and accepted in courtrooms. I don't doubt they know what they are doing.
I have also been a fan of Patricia Cornwall and have read many of her earlier books. I have also seen a documentary or two about the "Body Farm". It is very interesting to see how they tend to the cadavers that they study. With all of the studies that have been conducted there it is unbelievable that the defense would choose to refer to it as "junk science".
I also have a question for you Dave.......since mason is considered to be a top-notch death penalty defense lawyer, why are the motions that come from them so poorly written, and why does Baez seem to behave and conduct himself in such a poor manner? Is Baez the "top dog" on the team even though he is not DP qualified? Does Baez get to run the whole show?
Just wondering.......
Dave, I wanted to add that one thing that makes your writing so great is that you delve into the things you are writing about and really explain them to us. You don't just write that this is what the motion said, you actually explain it all and what it could mean if it is denied or granted. You do your homework like getting the information on the body farm, etc. and it is appreciated. Your writing stands out to me so much more than other blogs that I read.
Why, hello Carole - I know I've written my share of tough to comprehend posts, but I'd like to think I'm more adept at writing now, after all this time. Thank you, I feel better about my style.
Yes, nan11's words were chilling. I know that I would still like to believe Caylee accidentally drowned in the pool, but if that really happened, why didn't Casey just say so? I could just picture her getting a phone call from a boyfriend and just walking away, but how could she have acted so indifferent about her death? That's the icing. By that, I mean a woman with a cold, frozen heart.
I really appreciate that, Mary Jo. I do try to immerse myself in my writing, but there's one thing I recognize that's very important. I cannot assume that people understand what I write. I must go that extra mile to explain what my thoughts are without complicating it, if you know what I mean. It's easier to explain with examples than it is to answer a lot of questions because I didn't do my job properly. Thank you. You are a real sweetheart.
A CAUTION, this is not for the faint of heart.... It is amazing how they can salvage the fingerprints of a decomposed body. I don't think they could get them from an advanced stage tho.
The Body Farm-Human Decomposition
The Body Farm has been around since I was in high school and that was a long, long time ago. At that time it belonged just to the University of Tenn. It became the source of many jokes between the Florida Gators and our rivals Tenn. The lab itself was in the basement of the stadium. The body farm itself was on 3 acres about a mile away and could be seen from the stadium. (Not the bodies because of the trees) The scientific operation grew so large that it now operates with Oakridge labs. This was the reason I became interested in the Body Farm (it got it's name from the UT students). They have participated in numerous court trials and work with the FBI. I believe the only other Body Farm is in Texas.
Kudos to you Mr. Knechel...We the people appreciate your research on the subject at hand...Indeed the "Body Farm" has been around for a while and I see no reason that their findings should be ignored...The entomological evidence will be upheld with testimony from the Gainesville professor/scientist...I thoroughly agree that the defense will have difficulty providing evidence that Casey did not murder and dispose of Caylee...Granted it could have been an accident, but why would she go to such an extent to deceive and misdirect those that were trying to help...If it were an accident why not just say I panicked, didn't know what to do and the "fight or flee" instinct took over so I covered it up...I'm not so sure I believe Cindy's statement about the pool ladder, and who's to say that Casey intentionally put it there after the fact, if indeed it was there....So much to ponder and speculate about this grim circumstance...Don't think we will ever know the truth...
I am sorry Dave, I did not not tell you thanks for simplification of all the motions.Makes me in awe of the Judges than before. The article was very interesting and makes me want to know more about the workings of the body farm. I just can't work up any kind of sympathy today for Casey. I live 18 miles from the nearest town, today I had to go grocery shopping and since I wasn't driving, I was looking off into the woods. There was several places that reminded me of your videos, water and vines growingand I could not help think of Caylees little body laying in such for six months. Heartbreaking. Will Casey be required to be there for these hearings? I hope so and I think she needs to be made aware that she is not fooling anyone. i think she thinks that she is the victim here. I hope Judge Perry lets the state have this one. Thank you Dave my #1 writer.
Carole - To answer your question, I've seen grammatical errors coming from almost every attorney affiliated with this case. I'll stop there, but I must say that law school does a lousy job of teaching the King's English. Throughout motions, time and time again, I've cringed, but enough of that. It could be the high school students they hire for after school work. I guess it's not a strong point, but as long as the message gets across, judges seem to let the mistakes stand. The best way to understand Baez's position compared to Mason would be to say it's like the commander of a ship. An admiral may be aboard, but it's still the commander's ship. That means it trumps the admiral. Certainly Baez needed not just a death qualified attorney, but he also needed a mentor. To be honest, I think Ann Finnell completely outshines the other two combined. She's a class act.
hi dave .. another great post ... agree with wat nan11 said about the soft kill, however i wud also be thinking .. hang on here a min.. she was either drugging this baby everytime she wanted a nite out or to feel "free" again or she was planning this murder for a while, there was also a search about breaking necks if i recall.. either way i do not think anything could make it feel softer for me, and even if it was a terrible accident wat she did after would lead me to give her the maximum she could get..jmo.. and if it is found that it was casey who did the searchs then i think cindy shud be charged for all the lies, as a mother myself i can understand her need to protect her child at any cost , but not at the expense of my little innocent grandchild.. if i felt i had to lie then i would also know my child is lying as the truth would and does make more sense in all cases, this case just doesnt add up because most of the players are lying about something .. anyway thanks again dave.. looking forward to part 2 :) take care .. cinta
Hi, nika1! Has it really? I wasn't aware of that, but you sure have told a compelling story of its history. Brief, yet informative, and if anyone would know, it would be you. After all, I did get those books from you. I wasn't aware of any other Body Farm in Texas or anywhere else. I do find it fascinating that it got its name from students. I wonder what the campus thought about it. You know, like living next to a cemetery, only worse. Dead bodies lying out in the open.
Thanks for the edumication. And for those books.
Thank you, Estee! I do try to do my homework and it sure is nice to be appreciated.
The big problem I have with Casey is that she just shrugged it off. No remorse, no mourning, no nothing. Life as usual, only better. The lies. Not even telling her boyfriend. Imagine that! The poor guy will have to live with those memories forever. Sleeping with her, not knowing. Asking about her. Nonchalant answers. It's sickening, isn't it?
Somehow, I don't think the state is going to go easy on her.
Dave, thanks again for another great article!! This blog has V's beat by a country mile and that is why I have hung around for two year plus.... Margaret said it too.... you are Number One or Numero Uno.
Oh, Margaret, thank you, but you didn't have to come back and say that. You are quite welcome! You know something? I do the same thing. When driving along, I see places like that and think it looks the same as Suburban Drive. It's a very sad thing.
As for Casey, yes, she must attend all motion hearings. Judge Strickland made her and when the defense asked Judge Perry if she could sit them out, he turned them down. He said he wanted nothing lost in the translation. She has to hear every word of it. No prima donnas in his court.
Imagine that, Snoopy... Yup, time for bed.
Hi, cinta! Yes, there was, supposedly, a search for neck breaking, but I haven't heard anything about it lately. I do think it's true, though. You know something? Who taught Casey to lie so well? Hmm. I know Cindy wants to protect her child like mothers are supposed to do, but she should really sit back and question what really happened to little Caylee. Where was HER mother when she died? Certainly, not watching over her. Not keeping her from harm. Not caring one bit.
Thank you, cinta. You take care, too.
Dave you said: Who taught Casey to lie so well? Hmm. To you Dave I say Children learn what they live. Casey is a pro at lying. When caught she has another lie to spew. Who does that? She does not even blink an eye. It is natural, Cindy did the same thing when talking to LE and the FBI. Do not even get me started with the Civil Deposition. :) Casey would have made a great Politician.
I read about the Body Farm 14 or 15 years ago. If Mr. Mason or Baez are saying they never heard of it, I have to wonder where exactly the bubble they live in is located. This evidence is coming in. These are experts in the field of death and decomp.
Nan your comment made my blood boil! I have to agree it is a lot easier to think Caylee had been drugged than it is to think Casey held her down and placed 3 strips of duct tape across the face. Not to mention had to continue to hold her down because Caylee should have been able to pull it off otherwise. I realize some Attorney's have said there was no duct tape on her face. I wonder if that is because the only thing left was a skull? Or do they not realize crime scene photos will come in at the trial? I personally wish the defense, Casey and Family would agree that this crime is/was heinous and work to prove there is no way Casey could/would have done it. However since she did not work like she said her alibi is shot to he!!. Instead they seem to act as if this is really no big deal, imo. If Zenaida were sitting where Casey is I have a feeling Casey and Cindy would be calling for death.
All that and I forgot to add GREAT post and thank you!
Thank you, Laurali, and a very special good morning to you!
Yes!!! So many thoughts going through my head after reading this post!!! Dave, again another great post!!! The comment on soft kill/hard kill has me going. I was envisioning both scenarios in my head as I read. I definitely had to step away from the computer for a moment. I would like to think that Caylee was chloroformed first before the application of duct tape. I would think the defense would want that too! When I think about Casey holding that little baby down and applying the duct tape, I feel nauseated! The terror in that baby's eyes! Last, I can't imagine going to a video store with a guy to rent movies knowing what just transpired and that Caylee was in the trunk of my car. It has literally made me ill thinking about it!" Cold hearted" hardly describes Casey Anthony. I can only think the jury will feel this same feeling. It's almost abuse for the jury to have to go through this .
As for Cindy.......one can only imagine that she is also made of ice and when Casey was born, she began to mold her into a little carbon copy but twice as cold!!!
Quite a few years ago, I watched a special on t.v. about the body farm. It amazed me. After watching the program I spent some time reading on larvae and helping to give the time of death. I can't imagine Mason not knowing of the Body Farm. It even comes across bad to me, that they even stated that they hadn't heard of it. It is hard to stay focused when they make comments like that.
Back to Casey...I try and imagine what filled her full of such rage that lead her to this? I am afraid to even look at this through her eyes. Very afraid!!
Dave and Snoopy, I don't think I would have ever been able to keep up and understand this trial had it not been for the two of you. This has been a long haul and I have enjoyed reading each and every post, even if I get a little sick reading about Casey. When this is all over, I sure would like to read some articles on Diabetes. What about stem cell research and Diabetes? Will there be a cure? Maybe you could help me understand. Of course, when this is all over.
Howdy, SageMom - I certainly agree about Casey. How could she watch videos the night of the murder? If the child was not in the trunk of her car, where would it have been? Under her bed with the door shut tightly? Any way we look at it, it's a hideous thought. Did she make love that night to celebrate her newfound freedom, unbeknownst to her boyfriend? Even if she did not kill her daughter, which is a tough one to not believe, how could she have acted so cold? How could she have thought that no one would ever find out? Is she that stupid?
Of course, for Mason to think the judge is so naive that he would know nothing about the Body Farm's existence or the usage of the name is just plain dumb. I am forever finding flaws in the defense motions, and that one is a doozie.
Thank you for appreciating my work and the amount of time and effort Snoopy puts into discussing and analyzing this crime.
When it's all over, I'm not sure what I'll do yet. I will try to follow other crimes, but probably not with the intensity of this one. I will go back to writing human interest posts and, of course, diabetes. My concern there is to help others understand the disease.
Thank you again, SageMom, you are a very kind person.
Well, I want to post a great big "thank you" to each and every person who posted before me. I read and reread your article Dave and I think I blanked out at the law definitions lol. I just couldn't wrap my mind around these motions. Then I read everyone's posts and replies and got that light bulb "aha" moment! It pays to read thoroughly before posting for sure in my case.
My take on the computer forensics is that the word "chloroform" wouldn't just pop up when the word "chlorophyll" was typed in even with the auto complete unless it had been searched for beforehand. At least that's what my computer gives me on auto complete. Can forensics tell the date and time of the searches? If so, like someone above said, in the middle of the afternoon no one was home to use the computer but Casey which is proven with Bryan Burner's testimony.
Also, as far as the chloroform and body farm testing goes, I was under the impression it was the device used to take the air samples that is under question by the defense as "junk science" rather than the body farm. I was under the impression the device and any evidence gained by using it has never been used in the state before. The bug evidence comes into play also.. has that ever been used?
As for taping her mouth before death or after - to me death is death. I see no need for the duct tape after death. Beforehand, though, it's just possible Caylee got headaches from the stuff being given to her and threw an ever lovin hissy fit after having had it administered to her and mom duct taped the mouth so she wouldn't have to listen to it.
Dave I am curious about something. You said the State could not prove who did the searches on the computer. Do you think they have looked at cell phone pings to see if Casey could have been at home according to the date and time on the computer? Could they have looked at G&C's also? It would be interesting to know if those searches will come in at trial. We know there are specific towers for the A's home. Do you think those searches are important? 3 months ahead could be premeditation. But then again premeditation could be 1 minute, I suppose.
Dave do you know whether the defense has met its 2/15/2011 deadline for the reports from the experts?
[SALUKI - I answered your comment on the next page, but if you have trouble finding it, here it is... Hello, SALUKI, and welcome! I believe the defense missed the deadline, but the judge must rule on it. If the defense asked the court for an extension, they may be OK. Still, would the judge deny them their list? He would have to weigh the ramifications because it could trigger an appeal later on. Thank you for asking.]
Good morning, Connie - I tried the same search for chlorphyll and didn't get chloroform. The test instruments used in the detection of chloroform was the gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer. It is used by ORNL and the FBI. Since the defense was all over Oak Ridge and the Body Farm, in particular, I chose to focus mainly on that and the absurd allegation that the term "Body Farm" was made up to sensationalize the murder of Caylee by her mother. As for the testing method, it too, has been around for some time and it has been utilized in courts and elsewhere.
I will finish the second part of the chloroform motion and move on to the plant/root growth one. In the counter motion filed by Ashton, he wrote that, "These techniques have been routinely accepted as evidence in courts throughout the State of Florida." This tells me it's nothing new to Florida courts.
About the computer searches, I will answer that in Laura's questions.
Hey, thank you very much! Absolutely, death is death, but that can come in many different ways. Murder will always be murder, and that's a heavy duty word.